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Bengals Booth Podcast: Seen The Difference · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. The You've seen the difference and
0:11
Speaker 1: it's getting better all the time. Addition, as I discussed
0:17
Speaker 1: the state of the Bengals and what they are likely
0:19
Speaker 1: to do in the draft with my friend Charles Davis,
0:22
Speaker 1: who calls games for CBS Sports and analyzes the draft
0:26
Speaker 1: for the NFL Network. Then I'll talk to a man
0:29
Speaker 1: who has seen it all in more than four decades
0:32
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, Paul Sparling, who announced this week that he
0:36
Speaker 1: is retiring as the Bengals head athletic trainer. He'll share
0:40
Speaker 1: some great nuggets about Paul Brown, Tim Crumrye, Joe Burrow,
0:44
Speaker 1: and Moore. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals.
0:50
Speaker 1: Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season
0:53
Speaker 1: gets free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic
0:58
Speaker 1: Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and
1:01
Speaker 1: Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that you can
1:04
Speaker 1: have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to
1:06
Speaker 1: your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get
1:10
Speaker 1: your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the Masters. I
1:21
Speaker 1: joked with a buddy this week that I think I
1:23
Speaker 1: love the Masters Tournament more than I love my family.
1:27
Speaker 1: I love the traditions, the Green jacket, the champions dinner,
1:30
Speaker 1: the Part three contest, Pimento cheese, sandwiches, etc. I love
1:36
Speaker 1: the beauty of the chorus with the azaleas and Dogwoods
1:38
Speaker 1: in full bloom. And I love the history and the
1:41
Speaker 1: thrilling moments provided by Jack, Tiger, Phil and so many others.
1:47
Speaker 1: I have attended the Masters once, and if you stick
1:50
Speaker 1: around until the end of this episode, I will share
1:52
Speaker 1: my amusing but somewhat painful experience in story time with Dan.
1:59
Speaker 1: But now let's get to football. The NFL Draft is
2:04
Speaker 1: three weeks away. NFL Network will provide live coverage of
2:07
Speaker 1: the draft from Las Vegas April twenty eighth through thirtieth,
2:11
Speaker 1: and this week I have the chance to visit with
2:14
Speaker 1: NFL Network draft analyst Charles Davis. Charles, your first mock
2:19
Speaker 1: draft came out this week. You have the Bengals selecting
2:22
Speaker 1: Tyler Linderbaum, the center out of Iowa. Tell us, why
2:27
Speaker 1: oh look, I think he's the best center in the draft,
2:30
Speaker 1: and I think he has qualities similar to Creed Humphrey
2:33
Speaker 1: last year of Oklahoma, who went in the second round
2:36
Speaker 1: in Kansas City, was plugged right in as their starting
2:38
Speaker 1: center and went to not just the Pro Bowl, what
2:41
Speaker 1: was an All Pro center as a rookie, which was
2:44
Speaker 1: really a phenomenal accomplishment. But I think that Linderbaum is
2:47
Speaker 1: a similar player, same type of qualities to him, same
2:51
Speaker 1: type of plug in play. Right away, coming from the
2:54
Speaker 1: University of Iowa, where how often is it, Dan that
2:57
Speaker 1: your head coach spends more time with your offensive line
3:00
Speaker 1: than he does any other position, Maybe since what Vince Lombardi,
3:04
Speaker 1: because he was one of the seven blocks of Granted,
3:06
Speaker 1: you just don't get it very often. Maybe in Cincinnati
3:10
Speaker 1: you had that before with Forest Gregg maybe perhaps, but
3:13
Speaker 1: you hear where I'm coming with that. Look, that's where
3:17
Speaker 1: Kirk Ferren spends his time at the University of Iowa.
3:19
Speaker 1: Like when these coaches scatter, Kirk Farrence is with that
3:22
Speaker 1: offensive line. He's a tremendous offensive line coach in the NFL.
3:25
Speaker 1: He's been a tremendous head coach at Iowa. That's his baby,
3:28
Speaker 1: and this kid, I think has the movement, skills, the strength,
3:32
Speaker 1: everything that you're looking for to be a starter right away.
3:35
Speaker 1: And now, look, I do realize that you've made some
3:37
Speaker 1: moves in the off season. I do realize there's a
3:40
Speaker 1: certain young man who came over by name of Carris
3:43
Speaker 1: Right that has center in his background. Last year he
3:47
Speaker 1: played his first games at guard for New England and
3:50
Speaker 1: played much of the season as they're starting left guard.
3:53
Speaker 1: If Linderbaumb comes in, Carris goes into competition at a
3:56
Speaker 1: guard spot. So this is more of a the player
4:00
Speaker 1: is too good to pass up than any perceived need
4:04
Speaker 1: on the offensive line. To me, yes, and you're also
4:08
Speaker 1: wanting to increase You remember last year prior to the draft, Dan, Look,
4:11
Speaker 1: you remember it all very well. You're immersed in it, right.
4:14
Speaker 1: How much was the debate like you probably went to
4:17
Speaker 1: different places and said, oh no, I don't want to
4:19
Speaker 1: hear this debate anymore. Should we take a tackle in
4:23
Speaker 1: Piney's sewel to take care of our young quarterback or
4:26
Speaker 1: do we go get Jamar Chase the wide receiver? Right,
4:29
Speaker 1: Because that was that's all we talked about, and that
4:31
Speaker 1: was debated ad nauseum. And I'm sure you closed the
4:34
Speaker 1: door a few times said okay, I can't do this anymore,
4:36
Speaker 1: I'm done. They'll figure it out. Well, they figured it
4:39
Speaker 1: out last year because they knew that they believed in
4:42
Speaker 1: Jonah Williams. So because they believed in Jonah william just
4:45
Speaker 1: said Jonah Williams is healthy, Jamar Chase another weapon out
4:49
Speaker 1: Why that shore worked out pretty darned well for them
4:52
Speaker 1: right Well, to me, Tyler Linderbaum is another way of
4:55
Speaker 1: making things better for this young quarterback. Increasing your offensive line.
5:00
Speaker 1: It wasn't a debate last year in Cincinnati. It was
5:03
Speaker 1: a civil war. You were Team Chase or Teams Seul.
5:09
Speaker 1: I admit to being Teams Seul. But I learned my lesson.
5:13
Speaker 1: What I learned last year is that the value of
5:16
Speaker 1: a transcendent wide receiver is greater than the value of
5:20
Speaker 1: a single offensive lineman, no matter how good the offensive
5:24
Speaker 1: lineman is. And obviously you want great offensive lineman, but
5:28
Speaker 1: a game changing wide receiver has so much value. That
5:32
Speaker 1: was the lesson that I learned from last year. Well,
5:34
Speaker 1: it's a great lesson. It's a lesson for all of
5:36
Speaker 1: us because it is a legitimate debate, and as you said,
5:41
Speaker 1: in a legitimate war about which way do we go?
5:44
Speaker 1: Because in your team's history taking Anthony Munos a left tackle.
5:47
Speaker 1: Sure worked out pretty darn well. Okay, you talked about
5:50
Speaker 1: transcendent talent. Yeah, I get the wide receiver. But if
5:54
Speaker 1: you all of a sudden you thought you were getting
5:55
Speaker 1: another Anthony Muno's type player and he signed off on that.
5:59
Speaker 1: I remember for the draft, I went, oh, boy, that's
6:01
Speaker 1: putting some pressure on Duke Topin and the rest of
6:03
Speaker 1: the decision makers. And Anthony Munios goes go get the tackle.
6:08
Speaker 1: Remembers how well he played and what he did for
6:10
Speaker 1: a team that went to a couple of Super Bowls
6:12
Speaker 1: while he was there. But bottom line is, they got
6:15
Speaker 1: it right last year. They nailed it to me, Linda Bob. Again,
6:19
Speaker 1: as you said, I'm taking the player much more so
6:22
Speaker 1: than absolute need. But again it's not quite the same
6:26
Speaker 1: as I'm taking Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan because
6:30
Speaker 1: I have Clyde Drexler who was a tremendous player. But
6:34
Speaker 1: it's along those lines. Let's not make that mistake again.
6:37
Speaker 1: If I got a chance to get better, I go
6:39
Speaker 1: ahead and get better. NFL Network Draft analyst Charles Davis
6:43
Speaker 1: is our guest. Let's talk about cornerback. The Bengals have Chitube,
6:47
Speaker 1: A Wouge and Mike Hilton signed for multiple seasons, but
6:50
Speaker 1: Eli Apple is coming back on a one year deal.
6:53
Speaker 1: Depth beyond that threesome is questionable. So if the Bengals
6:57
Speaker 1: were to go cornerback, which is obvious a strong possibility,
7:01
Speaker 1: who do you like among the guys that might still
7:04
Speaker 1: be there at number thirty one? Well? I like kier
7:08
Speaker 1: Elam at the University of Florida. I love his build,
7:12
Speaker 1: I love his toughness. I love his bloodlines with a
7:15
Speaker 1: father and an uncle who played in the NFL as well.
7:18
Speaker 1: He gets it. Hasn't had quite the college career that
7:21
Speaker 1: you would like due to some injuries. But I think
7:23
Speaker 1: that he's a terrific player and he's one name that
7:26
Speaker 1: I would list and Dan I'm not listing him in
7:28
Speaker 1: any order of preference. I'm just listing names at this stage.
7:31
Speaker 1: I wonder for Roger McCreary from Auburn's going to be available.
7:34
Speaker 1: Really impressing me at the Senior Bowl, I'd been told
7:38
Speaker 1: going into the Senior Bowl people were a little disappointed
7:40
Speaker 1: about the lack of plays he made on the ball.
7:43
Speaker 1: I didn't see that at the Senior Bowl. He made
7:45
Speaker 1: a lot of players on the football that entire week
7:47
Speaker 1: and showed the aggressiveness and the willingness not just to
7:50
Speaker 1: mix it up in the run game, but to be
7:52
Speaker 1: there in the passing game and make them make sure
7:54
Speaker 1: that receivers were making contested catches. I think that the
7:58
Speaker 1: University of Washington has two corners McDuffie and Kyler Gordon.
8:03
Speaker 1: And it was interesting. I got done my first mock draft.
8:05
Speaker 1: I got a couple of texts from some people that
8:07
Speaker 1: I really trust in the league. You know, you and
8:09
Speaker 1: I we a lot of things that we do. We
8:12
Speaker 1: bounced off of other people in the league that we
8:14
Speaker 1: count on. I didn't even have to bounce this one off.
8:16
Speaker 1: They came to me and said, hey, man, don't fall
8:19
Speaker 1: asleep on Kyler Gordon because I Trent mcduffy going in
8:21
Speaker 1: the teams. Okay, don't fall asleep on Kyler Gordon the
8:24
Speaker 1: corner at Washington. He would probably be available around that
8:28
Speaker 1: time frame, Dan that someone would take a good strong
8:31
Speaker 1: look at and say, hey, he might be the guy
8:33
Speaker 1: that we would go for. So I'm just talking about
8:35
Speaker 1: it in the first round. As we get past the
8:37
Speaker 1: first round, those numbers start to really jump out there.
8:39
Speaker 1: More and more because there's plenty of corners, not nearly
8:42
Speaker 1: as many receivers, but there's still a decent amount of
8:45
Speaker 1: depth at the corner of position. But those would be
8:47
Speaker 1: the guys I would see. I don't know that there's
8:49
Speaker 1: going to be a precipitous drop for the top corners.
8:52
Speaker 1: You know, would and Andrew Ruth from Clemson drop in there?
8:55
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Derek Stingley, you know less, unless
8:59
Speaker 1: something really crazy happens. I don't see any of those
9:01
Speaker 1: guys dropping down, and certainly not my guy, Sauce Gardner. No, no, no, listen.
9:09
Speaker 1: I was working a show the other day and we
9:11
Speaker 1: did a thing like where's the highest he can go?
9:13
Speaker 1: Where's the lowest he can go? And I think the
9:15
Speaker 1: highest we started with was three to Houston and the
9:19
Speaker 1: lowest was ten to the Jets with their second pick.
9:22
Speaker 1: If the Jets don't use them at four with their
9:24
Speaker 1: first pick. You know, I mocked him to Seattle at nine.
9:27
Speaker 1: I mean, could you imagine if Pete Carroll saw the
9:29
Speaker 1: Sauce the gardener was still standing there at nine with
9:32
Speaker 1: the way he likes to play with those corners, with
9:34
Speaker 1: the length of those guys, look Richard Sherman is going
9:38
Speaker 1: to go to the Hall of Fame. We know that, right,
9:41
Speaker 1: And he's built similarly to a mod gardener. A mid
9:44
Speaker 1: gardeners way faster than Richard Sherman. What a mod's gotta
9:47
Speaker 1: do is maximize the brain power that Richard brought to
9:50
Speaker 1: the field and the reason he didn't get beat very often.
9:53
Speaker 1: He eliminated most of the stuff you couldn't you could
9:56
Speaker 1: do or couldn't do against him before the ball was snapped,
9:58
Speaker 1: and he was ready for what remaining. That's what a
10:01
Speaker 1: great corner does. That's what Sherman did. That's going to
10:04
Speaker 1: be the next step step for Sauce Gardner. I'll tell
10:07
Speaker 1: you this about Sauce Gardner. So he's been attending most
10:10
Speaker 1: of the University of Cincinnati's spring practices. He has been
10:14
Speaker 1: coaching up the young guys, and it shows to me
10:17
Speaker 1: the knowledge that he's gained from three years of playing
10:20
Speaker 1: college football. He's out there like a legitimate defensive backs
10:24
Speaker 1: coach sharing his knowledge, which which shows me something. Yeah,
10:28
Speaker 1: and it tells me something about him too, dan One.
10:31
Speaker 1: Just what you talked about the knowledge that he's gained,
10:33
Speaker 1: and he's not just willing to impart it. But there's
10:37
Speaker 1: one other element, the pride in the University of Cincinnati program,
10:41
Speaker 1: the pride and being a Bearcat, the pride and what
10:43
Speaker 1: they've built up over his timeframe and his career there
10:46
Speaker 1: where the team got progressively better to wear. The last
10:49
Speaker 1: two seasons, they lose a game in the regular season. Okay,
10:52
Speaker 1: so he put it up there. Now he has part
10:54
Speaker 1: of that grouping, and I think by his coaching up
10:57
Speaker 1: these youngsters, he's also telling them silently, well, what's the
11:00
Speaker 1: old Montreal Canadians thing about, you know, from failing hands
11:04
Speaker 1: where they tossed the torch. Well, his hands aren't failing,
11:08
Speaker 1: but he's passing the torch and he expects them to
11:10
Speaker 1: uphold it to the standards that he and his teammates
11:12
Speaker 1: have established there at Cincinnati. That's part of why he's
11:15
Speaker 1: coaching these kids up that way. I would believe. NFL
11:19
Speaker 1: Network Draft analyst Charles Davis is our guests, the Bengals
11:22
Speaker 1: like to rotate defensive lineman right now, at least for now,
11:26
Speaker 1: they don't have Larry Ogan job back in the fold
11:29
Speaker 1: after his free agent deal fell through in Chicago. Maybe
11:33
Speaker 1: he winds up back with the Bengals but in any case,
11:35
Speaker 1: they like to rotate those guys up front. Are there
11:38
Speaker 1: any defensive tackles that you would consider at thirty one?
11:43
Speaker 1: At thirty one a Logan Hall from Houston. Although I
11:46
Speaker 1: am really torn on him Dan for this reason body type.
11:50
Speaker 1: I feel like he's more of an edge guy. He
11:52
Speaker 1: looks a lot like his teammate coming out last year
11:55
Speaker 1: went to New Orleans and Peyton Turner, you know who
11:58
Speaker 1: ended up going into first round and cost of as
12:00
Speaker 1: to few people similar body type. But when he works
12:03
Speaker 1: at the three technique, he's tremendous off the snap, great
12:06
Speaker 1: arm overmove, tries to knife through and make plays and
12:10
Speaker 1: he did a nice job of that at the comm
12:12
Speaker 1: not not just see me at the Senior Bowl. So yes,
12:15
Speaker 1: can he be that type of a guy. I think
12:17
Speaker 1: he needs a little more bulk, But that's just me.
12:20
Speaker 1: But you got a pretty darn good defensive line coach
12:22
Speaker 1: and Marion Hobby. And I'm not just saying that because
12:24
Speaker 1: we were teammates the University of Tennessee. The world got
12:27
Speaker 1: to see that last year, you know, on display. If
12:30
Speaker 1: you didn't know it before, you had to watch it
12:32
Speaker 1: throughout that as injuries happened as different things, mixing and matching.
12:36
Speaker 1: That line continued to play better as a year went on,
12:38
Speaker 1: So I would think that he would benefit from that.
12:41
Speaker 1: But he would be a guy because I don't think
12:43
Speaker 1: Jordan Davids from Georgia DeVante Wyatt from Georgia. I don't
12:46
Speaker 1: think they make it down that far, you know, in
12:49
Speaker 1: terms of being big defensive tackles and guys that would go.
12:51
Speaker 1: If you've got to sneak another person into the first round,
12:55
Speaker 1: would it be a Perian Winfrey from from Oklahoma as
12:57
Speaker 1: a playmaking type of a defensive tackle. I just am
13:00
Speaker 1: skeptical about how many guys would jump up. I think
13:03
Speaker 1: Dan the bidding would starting to stecond round for d
13:06
Speaker 1: tackles and guys that would be available for for the Bengals.
13:10
Speaker 1: Travis Jones from Yukon. Would that name one that would
13:14
Speaker 1: be a great one that you would sneak into the
13:16
Speaker 1: first round because he's a guy that's literally on the rise.
13:19
Speaker 1: People liked him before, people loved him even more after
13:23
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, and by the time the combine was over,
13:26
Speaker 1: now you're having full on man crushes. Okay, the question
13:30
Speaker 1: you're going to ask yourself is with all that power
13:32
Speaker 1: that he packs and his ability to move people. Are
13:35
Speaker 1: you getting pass rush that goes with it? That gives
13:38
Speaker 1: you the value that you want at thirty one? But
13:40
Speaker 1: he is a legitimate name that the Bengals are looking
13:43
Speaker 1: and thinking. Yeah, I would put him in there just
13:46
Speaker 1: like you, just with the kid from Houston I mentioned before,
13:50
Speaker 1: Logan Hall Da would be my top two candidates at
13:53
Speaker 1: thirty one to possibly get in there. Let's get back
13:57
Speaker 1: to the Bengals offensive line for a second, specifically the
14:00
Speaker 1: moves they made in free agency, because you called Bengals
14:04
Speaker 1: games this year for CBS. You know this team well,
14:06
Speaker 1: Ted Carriss, Alex Kappa, l Collins. How big of an
14:11
Speaker 1: upgrade have the Bengals accomplished on their offensive line? Well?
14:16
Speaker 1: To me, this is how big it is. Dan Collins
14:19
Speaker 1: immediately slots in at right tackle as a starter. Okay,
14:22
Speaker 1: you already have Jonah Williams as your left tackle as
14:24
Speaker 1: a starter. Kappa slots in probably at right guard immediately
14:29
Speaker 1: as a starter. You remember last year became a mix
14:31
Speaker 1: and match situation. Wasn't going to be Jackson Carman, wasn't
14:35
Speaker 1: going to be a Chema dentagy. Was it going to
14:37
Speaker 1: be both of them in the Super Bowl. It was
14:39
Speaker 1: that's what you ended up with with some guys who
14:42
Speaker 1: you know who went through all that. So he slots
14:44
Speaker 1: in right there, Ted Carres. Immediately you can plug him
14:47
Speaker 1: in at center, or you can plug youm in at
14:49
Speaker 1: left guard. That's the way I look at depends on
14:52
Speaker 1: how you want to go about doing it. But immediately
14:55
Speaker 1: he's got starter's potential. That's what he played for New
14:57
Speaker 1: England last year. Remember, I think we said at the
14:59
Speaker 1: beginning his left guards played last year in New England,
15:02
Speaker 1: the first time he'd ever played guard in the NFL.
15:04
Speaker 1: He'd been a center here to four. But immediately, great upgrades.
15:08
Speaker 1: Guys who plug him play right out, right out of
15:10
Speaker 1: the gate, and we'll just see how it all plays out.
15:13
Speaker 1: That's why I came back to linder Bomb again. I
15:16
Speaker 1: don't think getting Ted Carris takes you away from getting Linderbomb.
15:20
Speaker 1: If indeed he's still on the board, you want to
15:22
Speaker 1: go get him because someone could go ahead and pluck
15:23
Speaker 1: him before you get the thirty one. He's that good.
15:26
Speaker 1: You called the Super Bowl last year for the international feed.
15:29
Speaker 1: How surprised were you by the Bengal success? Oh? I
15:33
Speaker 1: think I think anyone who says that they weren't surprised
15:35
Speaker 1: is a little bit disingenuous. I dan, I think that
15:38
Speaker 1: anyone who would sit here and say, well, you know,
15:40
Speaker 1: preseason I had the Bengals riding it all the way through.
15:44
Speaker 1: We saw talent there, but there were enough question marks
15:48
Speaker 1: to give you pause. That offensive line that we talked about.
15:51
Speaker 1: Remember Jonah Williams hadn't done it for a full season yet.
15:54
Speaker 1: You know, he's a first round draft choice that had
15:56
Speaker 1: been dinged up the whole time. And remember the debate
15:58
Speaker 1: was still raging. Man, I don't know, Oh, they probably
16:00
Speaker 1: should have getten Penney Sewell instead of the wide receiver
16:02
Speaker 1: because you got a bunch of receivers, so that debate
16:05
Speaker 1: was still raging. Joe Burrow coming back from the knee injury,
16:08
Speaker 1: would he be the Joe Burrow we expected him to be?
16:11
Speaker 1: Turned out? He was and then some even as he
16:14
Speaker 1: was still working his way back through the knee injury.
16:16
Speaker 1: How about on the defensive side, when you just get
16:19
Speaker 1: to the cornerback position. I don't know anyone who could
16:22
Speaker 1: have said Eli Apple would have given you that type
16:24
Speaker 1: of play that he did all the year long. I
16:26
Speaker 1: just don't know that anyone would have signed off on that. Yeah,
16:29
Speaker 1: I'm in Eli Apple, He's gonna give you exactly new
16:33
Speaker 1: because Trey Waynes, who was supposed to be that guy,
16:35
Speaker 1: was ding most of the year. So Logan Wilson comes
16:39
Speaker 1: out hot, intercepting passes like crazy, gets hurt. What happens now, Well,
16:45
Speaker 1: they found a way to plug and play. Larry Ogan
16:47
Speaker 1: Joeb does a great job. But how about how great
16:49
Speaker 1: a move was that by Duke Tobin and crew to
16:52
Speaker 1: get bj Hill right before the season begins. As it
16:55
Speaker 1: turned out, it bids a prescient move because once Ogan
16:58
Speaker 1: Joey got hurt, they'll move right in and let them play.
17:01
Speaker 1: So bottom line is, I'm just pointing out different spots
17:04
Speaker 1: stand and I could go into other ones. Did we
17:07
Speaker 1: expect them to be improved? I think yes. I think
17:10
Speaker 1: people like Zach Taylor like what he brought to the table.
17:13
Speaker 1: But the idea of six to twenty five and one
17:15
Speaker 1: turning into a super Bowl team in the year three,
17:19
Speaker 1: I would have to say that anyone who told me
17:21
Speaker 1: they saw that coming, I'd have to put them on
17:23
Speaker 1: the stand and question them a little bit. I don't
17:25
Speaker 1: believe they're being totally truthful with us. Put your left
17:29
Speaker 1: hand on the Bible, raise your right hand. We're talking
17:33
Speaker 1: to NFL Network draft analyst Charles Davis. As long as
17:37
Speaker 1: the topic is looking ahead and making predictions. Caesar's Sports
17:42
Speaker 1: Book came out with their season win total odds a
17:46
Speaker 1: few days ago. In the AFC, the favorite is Buffalo
17:49
Speaker 1: eleven and a half wins. The Chiefs, Chargers, and Broncos
17:52
Speaker 1: are next to ten wins. Then you have a bunch
17:54
Speaker 1: of teams, including the Bengals at nine and a half wins.
17:58
Speaker 1: Should four teams have our odds in the AFC than
18:02
Speaker 1: the defending AFC champion as a general rule, The answers no.
18:07
Speaker 1: I mean, as a general rule, no, But here's where
18:09
Speaker 1: we run into what you know. Let's just go ahead
18:12
Speaker 1: and say it, Dan, Because you and I are friends,
18:14
Speaker 1: we've been we've known each other a long time. I
18:17
Speaker 1: do believe that you and I can put our bona
18:19
Speaker 1: fides up there about knowing the league and knowing how
18:21
Speaker 1: things operate. If you took the name Cincinnati off of this,
18:26
Speaker 1: I think the odds would be higher, I really do.
18:29
Speaker 1: I just think that that's just part of how people think,
18:32
Speaker 1: how people see, how people go through things and experience it,
18:35
Speaker 1: and the idea that Cincinnati is going to repeat what
18:38
Speaker 1: we saw before, well, remember how shortsighted we're being if
18:42
Speaker 1: we're saying that, because during that Marvin Lewis run, that's
18:46
Speaker 1: what six straight years in the playoffs, five and six
18:49
Speaker 1: out of selling five, five and six seasons, multiple division championships,
18:53
Speaker 1: not dimension wild cards in getting there. So it can happen,
18:57
Speaker 1: but it becomes one of those things where Cincinnati's one
18:59
Speaker 1: of those franchises that people always want to look at
19:02
Speaker 1: the negative side as opposed to understanding what's happening. We
19:06
Speaker 1: forget that in a sentence. His team's ahead of schedule,
19:09
Speaker 1: absolutely ahead of schedule. But the beauty is you got
19:12
Speaker 1: a quarterback that I think would be ninety five years
19:16
Speaker 1: old and not satisfied with what he's doing. He'd still
19:19
Speaker 1: be trying to go out and play. And when you
19:21
Speaker 1: have that type of leadership on your team and he's
19:23
Speaker 1: not letting down, I think everyone else will come along
19:26
Speaker 1: with him. So I see Cincinnati a little bit higher
19:28
Speaker 1: than that, but I understand why they have other people
19:32
Speaker 1: ahead of them, because I just think it's a how
19:35
Speaker 1: would we say it? Dan Institutional type of thinking with
19:38
Speaker 1: the league, other franchise will get a little bit extra
19:41
Speaker 1: that Maybe a franchise like Cincinnati a couple more questions
19:45
Speaker 1: for Charles Davis. The Bengals lost c. J Uzama as
19:49
Speaker 1: a free agent to the New York Jets. They went
19:51
Speaker 1: out and signed Hayden Hurst to replace him. Let the
19:55
Speaker 1: record show that in twenty eighteen you might not even
19:59
Speaker 1: remember this. You had the Bengals selecting hayden Hurst and
20:03
Speaker 1: a mock draft. Boy did well. It all comes back
20:09
Speaker 1: around like I saw that coming has been how many
20:13
Speaker 1: places now because he was in Atlanta, but he started
20:16
Speaker 1: out who took him Baltimore in Atlanta two years apiece?
20:21
Speaker 1: But this shows you a little bit too about how
20:24
Speaker 1: the league operates um for fans. Many who know this,
20:28
Speaker 1: So I don't ever want to act like I'm talking
20:30
Speaker 1: down to fans. I don't know how you feel about it. Dan,
20:34
Speaker 1: you've been around this league a long time. I've been
20:36
Speaker 1: around in a decent amount of time as well. One
20:39
Speaker 1: thing I've told my colleagues is we in the positions
20:43
Speaker 1: we're in, we have to be more careful than ever
20:46
Speaker 1: about understanding that fans have accessed information way better than
20:50
Speaker 1: they did before. You know, I think you and I
20:54
Speaker 1: if we were sitting in a room one day with
20:57
Speaker 1: a bunch of Cincinnati Bengals fans and they were peppering
20:59
Speaker 1: us with their thoughts and opinions. We used to have
21:02
Speaker 1: a great trump card. You remember what it was. Well,
21:04
Speaker 1: you know, we get to watch all the All twenty
21:06
Speaker 1: two tape, We got to watch the coaches tape. You
21:08
Speaker 1: guys could never see that. Guess what, they can watch
21:11
Speaker 1: the All twenty two tape and do so. So now
21:14
Speaker 1: you're in a position where your opinion their opinion. They're like, look,
21:18
Speaker 1: I watched eight games too. I know what I'm talking about.
21:21
Speaker 1: But one thing I want to want to bring up
21:24
Speaker 1: with this is hayden Hurst was in the division. And
21:28
Speaker 1: the other part is they keep all the reports that
21:31
Speaker 1: they filed on kids when they were drafted. So if
21:34
Speaker 1: you liked the young man but you didn't get him,
21:38
Speaker 1: there's someone in that building that said, you know something,
21:40
Speaker 1: I really liked Tayden Hurst coming out, and they bring
21:43
Speaker 1: that file back, and then of course that file is
21:45
Speaker 1: upgraded because of what he's done since that time. You
21:48
Speaker 1: saw him twice a year within division, you scouted him
21:51
Speaker 1: coming out of college. There's someone in that organization, maybe
21:55
Speaker 1: multiple people have said, you know something, hey, like Tayden Hurst,
21:58
Speaker 1: here's our opportunity is gone. And they bring the reports,
22:02
Speaker 1: They go over the tape, the whole deal. But that's
22:04
Speaker 1: how it goes with. None of that stuff's ever filed jumped, like,
22:07
Speaker 1: all those files are kept. Just like you finding me
22:10
Speaker 1: with the twenty eighteen d draft. Duke Tobin and his
22:14
Speaker 1: staff they got all the reports. Someone might Hayden Hurst
22:18
Speaker 1: way back when and they think that he still can
22:20
Speaker 1: be a value now. That's why he's a Bengal. Last thing,
22:23
Speaker 1: and I'll let you go. This is a Bengals podcast,
22:25
Speaker 1: but we obviously have a lot of people listening that
22:28
Speaker 1: are interested in the University of Cincinnati. There's a chance
22:31
Speaker 1: the Bearcats could have eight, maybe even nine players drafted.
22:35
Speaker 1: The school record is six. What do you think of
22:39
Speaker 1: the rise of the Bearcat program under Luke Fickle and
22:42
Speaker 1: the fact that there's so much legitimate, high end NFL
22:46
Speaker 1: talent now coming out of Cincinnati. Well, I think it's
22:50
Speaker 1: marvelous because to me, this is like the finishing school
22:54
Speaker 1: of a number of people who have come through there
22:56
Speaker 1: and done a really good job. With Cincinnati, but didn't
22:59
Speaker 1: stay the course as long as Luke Fickle has right,
23:02
Speaker 1: helped me out here, Dan, let me go back a little.
23:05
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly was your head coach. I'll give you the order,
23:08
Speaker 1: Mark D'Antonio, Ryan Kelly, Butch Jones, it didn't work out
23:12
Speaker 1: great at your alma mater, but still he made it
23:15
Speaker 1: to that level. Tommy Tupperville didn't work out so well.
23:19
Speaker 1: That one didn't work out so well. And obviously Luke Fickle,
23:23
Speaker 1: who has been the most successful of them all. Well,
23:25
Speaker 1: let's go back, okay, very quickly. First one was Mark D'Antonio.
23:29
Speaker 1: I remember, tell me if I'm wrong. Mark d'antonio's Bearcats
23:33
Speaker 1: beat Rutgers after Rutgers won that big game against Louisville. Correct,
23:38
Speaker 1: Rutgers was in the top ten. Mark D'Antonio and Cincinnati
23:42
Speaker 1: beat them at Dunford Stadium, correct, all right? You remember
23:44
Speaker 1: that they had just beatn Louisville and that was a
23:46
Speaker 1: titanic Thursday night game and the whole deal. Right, And
23:49
Speaker 1: the very next time out the Bearcats did it. Mark
23:52
Speaker 1: d'Antona did a nice job when to Michigan State. You
23:55
Speaker 1: saw how that turned out, worked out pretty well, right,
23:57
Speaker 1: who was after Brian Kelly. I was actually part of
24:01
Speaker 1: a broadcast team. It when during the BCS when Cincinnati
24:07
Speaker 1: went to a BCS Bowl and played against Virginia Tech
24:09
Speaker 1: and Tyrod Taylor and Nat Crew. So you saw the
24:12
Speaker 1: success there, and how did Brian Kelly parlay that? Notre
24:16
Speaker 1: Day worked out any now he's at LSU, right, Okay,
24:20
Speaker 1: then then we ended up with Butch Jones. But she
24:22
Speaker 1: did a very nice job there par laid that too.
24:24
Speaker 1: Tennessee was that close to getting over the home Ye
24:28
Speaker 1: that close in fact, that twenty fifteen had Oklahoma on
24:31
Speaker 1: the ropes at home in Knoxville. Oklahoma felt rally got
24:36
Speaker 1: over Tom Baker Mayfield goat him home. Tennessee almost got
24:39
Speaker 1: over the Hume. Then sixteen beat Florida looked good, didn't
24:42
Speaker 1: quite get there, and then then the you know, the
24:44
Speaker 1: doors came off. But still all I'm saying is put
24:48
Speaker 1: all those coaches together. They did have their pockets of success.
24:52
Speaker 1: Fickle has taken it to Remember I said, finishing school.
24:55
Speaker 1: He's been there long enough. He's turning over. The recruiting
25:00
Speaker 1: people are there, the interest is there, the success is there.
25:04
Speaker 1: And then I look back and Zach Taylor recruited your
25:09
Speaker 1: quarterback Desmond Ritter, who's about to get draft into the
25:12
Speaker 1: NFL as well. Now you got the Cincinnati guys together
25:16
Speaker 1: getting it done. Zach Taylor head coach of the Bengals.
25:19
Speaker 1: Luke Fickle still head coach of Cincinnati. And this is
25:21
Speaker 1: how good a job it's become. Now Luke Fickl's still
25:24
Speaker 1: the head coach of Cincinnati. There have been some pretty
25:27
Speaker 1: darn good openings that have come along, Dan, And you
25:29
Speaker 1: know better than I do how much people have walked
25:32
Speaker 1: in and how much interest Luke may or may not
25:34
Speaker 1: have had. He could have had any of those jobs.
25:37
Speaker 1: Those jobs were available for him right And the best
25:40
Speaker 1: part for me in watching what he's done is it
25:43
Speaker 1: is a terrific college program. But if you have NFL aspirations,
25:48
Speaker 1: you will get coach to be ready to go into
25:50
Speaker 1: the NFL. But if you don't, if you're not an
25:53
Speaker 1: NFL player, you're gonna get your degree, You're gonna play
25:56
Speaker 1: terrific college football at a high level. You're gonna be
25:59
Speaker 1: respected where you go, and pride in being a Bearcat
26:02
Speaker 1: is at an all time high. I don't know that
26:05
Speaker 1: anyone's done a better job over the last ten fifteen
26:07
Speaker 1: years as a head coach in college football than Luke Fickle.
26:11
Speaker 1: No one will ever do the same job. Bill Snyder
26:13
Speaker 1: Dick Kansas State can't be done. Okay, that was an
26:15
Speaker 1: absolute waste land. Okay, there's no getting around it. But
26:20
Speaker 1: Luke Fickle over the last fifteen years, Who's done a
26:22
Speaker 1: better job overall? I don't think anyone agree. Always a
26:27
Speaker 1: treat to pick your brain. I appreciate your time. Keep
26:30
Speaker 1: up the great work. We look forward to walking watching
26:32
Speaker 1: your coverage with the NFL Network leading up to and
26:36
Speaker 1: during the weekend of the draft. Well thanks Dan, Always
26:38
Speaker 1: a pleasure to spend time with you. And one last thing,
26:41
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being so great to me
26:43
Speaker 1: over the years, each and every time. I can never
26:45
Speaker 1: thank you enough. I know we're colleagues in there. There
26:48
Speaker 1: is some some of that formality that goes along with it,
26:51
Speaker 1: but it goes far beyond that. You're top of your
26:54
Speaker 1: profession at what you do, but your top of your
26:57
Speaker 1: profession of being a person too. So thank you so much.
27:00
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you kind words, my friend. I appreciate you.
27:03
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Take care, Dan. Charles will join Rich
27:06
Speaker 1: eyes In, Daniel Jeremiah, and many others as part of
27:09
Speaker 1: the NFL Network's live coverage of all three rounds of
27:13
Speaker 1: the draft. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals,
27:17
Speaker 1: the free to play fantasy football game. This past season,
27:21
Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals awarded a weekly winner during the course of
27:23
Speaker 1: the year with tickets, autograph merchandise, and money can't Buy
27:28
Speaker 1: experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the
27:31
Speaker 1: App Store and Google Play. In the summer of nineteen
27:35
Speaker 1: seventy eight, a sophomore at Wilmington College named Paul Sparling
27:39
Speaker 1: started working for the Bengals athletic training staff part time
27:43
Speaker 1: at training camp. Fourteen years later, Paul climbed to the
27:47
Speaker 1: top of the Totem pole as the Bengals head athletic trainer,
27:51
Speaker 1: a job he's held for the last thirty years. This week,
27:55
Speaker 1: Sparling announced he's retiring. He'll be with a team in
27:58
Speaker 1: an advisory role this season to help ease the transition
28:02
Speaker 1: before officially calling at quits. Imagine what he's seen and
28:05
Speaker 1: heard over the last thirty years and the relationships he's
28:09
Speaker 1: built in the Bengals training room. I talked to Paul
28:12
Speaker 1: about his life in football this week. Paul, I want
28:16
Speaker 1: to turn the clock back. Do you remember how young
28:19
Speaker 1: you were when you first said you'd like to beat
28:22
Speaker 1: the Bengals head trainer. Actually, I was in high school.
28:28
Speaker 1: A friend of mine, Don Brown, who was a sportscaster
28:31
Speaker 1: and ultimately became a sportscaster in Dayton, asked me. I
28:35
Speaker 1: believe I was probably a senior or junior in high school,
28:38
Speaker 1: and he asked me what I've wanted to be when
28:40
Speaker 1: I grew up. I think he was sitting in the
28:42
Speaker 1: hot tub. He was a baseball player for Stevens High School,
28:44
Speaker 1: where we both went, and I told him my goal
28:47
Speaker 1: was to one day become the head athletic trainer for
28:49
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Bengals. And every time I see him, he
28:52
Speaker 1: has reminded me of that, as that was quite a
28:54
Speaker 1: few years ago, and that's really amazing. I mean, it's
28:57
Speaker 1: there only thirty two of these jobs, and to think
29:00
Speaker 1: of it at that age and for it to come true,
29:02
Speaker 1: it's pretty remarkable. It is an incredible story. How I
29:06
Speaker 1: got interested in athletic training was I realized I wanted
29:10
Speaker 1: to be an athlete. But I figured out pretty quickly.
29:12
Speaker 1: I was too small to play football, too short to
29:15
Speaker 1: play basketball, and I couldn't hit a curveball. I went
29:17
Speaker 1: out for the track team and ran around the track
29:20
Speaker 1: three or four times, and I said, this is stupid.
29:22
Speaker 1: I'm running in an oval. What is the point of this?
29:25
Speaker 1: And the coach asked me if i'd be as manager.
29:28
Speaker 1: So I did that for the rest of the track season,
29:31
Speaker 1: and then they asked me to be the manager for
29:33
Speaker 1: the football team, and then the manager for the basketball team.
29:35
Speaker 1: And one day that coach, teacher coach at mad River
29:39
Speaker 1: Junior High, asked me if I was interested in athletic training. Now,
29:42
Speaker 1: mind you, this was fifty years ago, and my impression
29:46
Speaker 1: of an athletic trainer back then would have been an
29:48
Speaker 1: old guy, overweight, heavy set, with a white T shirt
29:52
Speaker 1: and khaki pants and probably a bald head towel over
29:55
Speaker 1: his shoulder and a bucket of water in one hand
29:58
Speaker 1: and a black bag in the other hand. And I said, sure,
30:00
Speaker 1: why not? He sent away for a home correspondence course
30:04
Speaker 1: that I took. He spent his own money on it,
30:07
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with it. I learned about
30:09
Speaker 1: muscle strains and ankle sprains, when to use ice, when
30:13
Speaker 1: to use heat, all those kinds of things, and I
30:15
Speaker 1: realized that that just hit me in the right spot,
30:19
Speaker 1: and from that point on, I decided that was going
30:21
Speaker 1: to be the direction I wanted to take my career.
30:24
Speaker 1: Visiting with Paul Sparling, you attended Wilmington College back when
30:28
Speaker 1: the Bengals held their training camp there. How did you
30:30
Speaker 1: wind up working for the team and what were your
30:33
Speaker 1: initial responsibilities. Well, one of the reasons I went to
30:37
Speaker 1: Wilmington is because the Bengals were there. I had looked
30:41
Speaker 1: at other schools. I looked at Ohio Estate that was
30:43
Speaker 1: too big for me. Ohio University was too far out
30:46
Speaker 1: Bowling Green. I visited during a blizzard, decided I didn't
30:50
Speaker 1: want to go up there, and I got a letter
30:53
Speaker 1: from Roger Tewkesbury, the head athletic trainer for the Wilmington College,
30:58
Speaker 1: inviting me to come visit his program that he was
31:01
Speaker 1: starting up there at Wilmington. And I went up and
31:04
Speaker 1: visited and felt like it fit just right and if
31:07
Speaker 1: it was good enough for the Bengals, it'd be good
31:08
Speaker 1: enough for me. I was offered the position of training
31:12
Speaker 1: camp laundry boy by Tom Gray, then the equipment manager.
31:16
Speaker 1: They were looking for somebody to do laundry during the
31:18
Speaker 1: six week time period that they were there, and I
31:20
Speaker 1: jumped at the chance, and I washed socks and jocks
31:23
Speaker 1: and towels and shimmels. Turned out I was getting done
31:27
Speaker 1: much sooner than the guy that had done it the
31:29
Speaker 1: couple of seasons prior, and so Tom asked me to
31:33
Speaker 1: start helping him out in the equipment room, fixing shoulder
31:36
Speaker 1: pads and helmets. And then Marv Pollin's, then the head
31:38
Speaker 1: athletic trainer, found out that I was an athletic trainer
31:41
Speaker 1: that could tape ankles. So he said, when you're done
31:44
Speaker 1: with the laundry and you're done in the equipment room,
31:45
Speaker 1: come in here and help me and Bill Bill Connley,
31:48
Speaker 1: the assistant trainer at the time, help us tapes and ankles.
31:51
Speaker 1: And that's where it started. And so I have always
31:55
Speaker 1: been able to tell the assistants and students here that
31:57
Speaker 1: I'll never ask you to do anything I haven't done,
32:00
Speaker 1: because I've done at all. That is quite the from
32:03
Speaker 1: humble beginnings story. What do you remember about Paul Brown?
32:08
Speaker 1: I tell you what he had, such a such an
32:13
Speaker 1: impressive personality, gravitas if you will. I mean when he
32:17
Speaker 1: spoke in some of the meetings, people definitely listened and
32:22
Speaker 1: very astute, had a wry, funny sense of humor. But
32:28
Speaker 1: it was very clear that he was a gifted man intellectually,
32:34
Speaker 1: clearly knew what he was doing, clearly had a phenomenal reputation,
32:39
Speaker 1: and I was just I was honored just to be
32:42
Speaker 1: in his presence. Was he intimidating the first time I
32:46
Speaker 1: met him, Yes, But the more I got to know him,
32:48
Speaker 1: the more I realized he was a very kind and gentleman.
32:52
Speaker 1: And just from that point on, actually Mike was more
32:56
Speaker 1: intimidating to me than than Paul. Re visiting with longtime
33:00
Speaker 1: Bengals had athletic trainer Paul Sparling. You've had a great
33:03
Speaker 1: relationship with Mike for more than four decades. When asked
33:06
Speaker 1: about you, the first word that he brings up his trust.
33:10
Speaker 1: How did you develop that relationship with him? Well, I
33:14
Speaker 1: just call it the way I see it as the
33:17
Speaker 1: athletic trainer. There are times you have to deliver bad news.
33:21
Speaker 1: There's no easy way to deliver bad news. But the
33:24
Speaker 1: best way to deliver bad news is to be upfront
33:26
Speaker 1: and honest about it. That to me, is a critical,
33:31
Speaker 1: critical trait in what I've done over the years, not
33:34
Speaker 1: only to ownership, but also to the players and to
33:37
Speaker 1: the coaches, to the doctors, to everybody. You've just got
33:41
Speaker 1: to call it the way you see it. You might
33:42
Speaker 1: be wrong, but give your opinion and stand behind it.
33:46
Speaker 1: And I have been blessed to have a great relationship
33:53
Speaker 1: with Mike. It's been built over years, decades, if you will.
33:57
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget the first time I had to
34:00
Speaker 1: give him bad news. I was the head athletic trainer
34:04
Speaker 1: for the first time in ninety two. It was early
34:06
Speaker 1: in training camp and Eddie Brown came to me with
34:09
Speaker 1: some upper extremity arm and hand numbness and tingling that
34:14
Speaker 1: I pretty quickly figured out was probably coming from his neck.
34:18
Speaker 1: And so we sent him into Cincinnati and had an
34:20
Speaker 1: MRI done and it showed that he was going to
34:22
Speaker 1: need to have season ending surgery. And I had to
34:26
Speaker 1: convey that to Mike, and I did it to him
34:28
Speaker 1: over the phone, and all I'll say is the reception
34:31
Speaker 1: that I got was less than pleasant. I hung up
34:34
Speaker 1: the phone and I asked myself, why am I doing this.
34:37
Speaker 1: I had come back to be the head athletic trainer
34:40
Speaker 1: when they invited me. I saw him out on the
34:42
Speaker 1: field when practice began, and he came to me and
34:45
Speaker 1: he apologized, And never from that point on did I
34:50
Speaker 1: ever hear that tone of voice again, And so there's
34:54
Speaker 1: a mutual respect and admiration. I think the world of
34:56
Speaker 1: him and couldn't be more pleased to have been able
35:00
Speaker 1: to spend all my time here. We have seen you
35:04
Speaker 1: in the role of bearer of bad news to the
35:07
Speaker 1: players on Hard Knocks a couple of times. I distinctly
35:11
Speaker 1: remember the Reggie Kelly interview is the very first episode
35:14
Speaker 1: of a Bengals Hard Knock show, and you had to
35:16
Speaker 1: be empathetic but also tell him exactly what he was
35:19
Speaker 1: dealing with. How do you approach that with the players?
35:24
Speaker 1: I try to have empathy and accept the fact that
35:28
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to deliver them that news,
35:30
Speaker 1: but I think it's better for them to hear it
35:32
Speaker 1: straight up from the very beginning and not give him
35:35
Speaker 1: false hopes. With Reggie's I knew right away what he
35:39
Speaker 1: had done. I could feel the Achilles was torn, and
35:42
Speaker 1: I didn't see any point in delaying the inevitable and
35:45
Speaker 1: tell him, well, let's see we'll get an MRI. And
35:48
Speaker 1: I just the way I would want to be informed
35:51
Speaker 1: is the way I tried to inform the players, realizing
35:55
Speaker 1: that at times it's you know, you're crushing a dream,
35:57
Speaker 1: you're hitting where it hurts and it I've dealt with
36:02
Speaker 1: their emotions and what have you, but I've also taken
36:05
Speaker 1: the philosophy that after I give them the bad news
36:08
Speaker 1: and I'll tell them, you've got twenty four hours to powell,
36:11
Speaker 1: and then after that, it's time for us to focus
36:14
Speaker 1: on forward. So get it out of your system. And
36:17
Speaker 1: that's just kind of the philosophy that I've followed, and
36:19
Speaker 1: I think, at least from what I can tell, most
36:22
Speaker 1: of the guys respected that and recognize that you can
36:25
Speaker 1: only dwell on the negative. It's time to start focusing
36:28
Speaker 1: on forward. And I'll tell you the guy that really
36:30
Speaker 1: demonstrated that to me was Joe Burrow. When I talked
36:35
Speaker 1: to him, gave him the same story. In the bus
36:37
Speaker 1: on the way from the Redskin Stadium or the now
36:41
Speaker 1: Commander's Stadium to the airport. I told him my philosophy
36:47
Speaker 1: of the twenty four hours and he said, there's no
36:49
Speaker 1: pouting here. I'm working on getting back and that spoke
36:53
Speaker 1: volumes to me and he demonstrated it. Those weren't just
36:56
Speaker 1: empty words. How unique was he last year in coming
37:00
Speaker 1: from his injury. Well, we knew that, given the nature
37:03
Speaker 1: of the position, the likelihood was he would make it back.
37:08
Speaker 1: So much of it is not just physical, it's the mental,
37:11
Speaker 1: the psychological part of it, and I think that's what
37:14
Speaker 1: he was dealing with early on. He attacked his rehab
37:18
Speaker 1: and he and Nick developed a special relationship and as
37:21
Speaker 1: a team, they worked superbly together. Could not have gone
37:25
Speaker 1: any better. He did not have any setbacks during the
37:28
Speaker 1: course of his rehab, but I think he will probably
37:32
Speaker 1: tell you as time went on during the season that
37:34
Speaker 1: he gained the confidence that he knew he could plant,
37:37
Speaker 1: cut and pivot and didn't have to worry about it.
37:40
Speaker 1: But it takes time for that to develop, and unfortunately,
37:42
Speaker 1: there's no mental exercise that we as athletic trainers or
37:46
Speaker 1: physical therapists can run them through. They have to go
37:49
Speaker 1: out and do it and experience it with him. We
37:52
Speaker 1: did get him out early during training camp, making sure
37:58
Speaker 1: that he was ready from day one, and we also
38:03
Speaker 1: were cautious with him and didn't let him get too
38:05
Speaker 1: far ahead of himself where he ends up developing soreness
38:09
Speaker 1: and swelling and what have you, to the point where
38:11
Speaker 1: you have to hold him back because you have to. Instead,
38:14
Speaker 1: we were proactive about that and he played an active
38:16
Speaker 1: role in the pace as well. But you could not
38:19
Speaker 1: have asked for a better patient. I can tell you
38:21
Speaker 1: that we're visiting the long time Bengals head athletic trainer
38:24
Speaker 1: Paul Sparling. I mentioned hard knocks. How difficult was it
38:28
Speaker 1: to have the curtain pulled back on what you do well?
38:32
Speaker 1: I will tell you the first time that they came
38:34
Speaker 1: in it was awkward. We had to kind of decide
38:36
Speaker 1: what are we going to let him see and what
38:38
Speaker 1: are we not going to let him see. The second
38:40
Speaker 1: go around was easy. We knew what to expect and
38:43
Speaker 1: we felt comfortable and confident in how we were going
38:46
Speaker 1: to let them see certain things. There were a couple
38:50
Speaker 1: of times that they would be filming and I ended
38:52
Speaker 1: up having to tell them that, you know, I needed
38:55
Speaker 1: them to cut that for whatever reason. But they were very,
39:00
Speaker 1: very cooperative. I will tell you it was a little bit,
39:03
Speaker 1: like I said, awkward at first. I did watch a
39:06
Speaker 1: couple of episodes of previous teams just to kind of
39:10
Speaker 1: get an idea what to expect, and they were good
39:13
Speaker 1: people to work with. They were very respectful, and if
39:15
Speaker 1: we said something was off limits, I quickly realized that
39:20
Speaker 1: they would certainly respect that. Every picture of Tim crum
39:25
Speaker 1: rise devastating injury and Super Bowl twenty three includes a
39:28
Speaker 1: young Paul Sparling right by his side. Are all of
39:32
Speaker 1: the stories true of Tim refusing to go to the hospital,
39:36
Speaker 1: of turning down painkillers, etc. They're not stories, They're fact.
39:41
Speaker 1: I was there. I remember his wife coming in, Cheryl.
39:46
Speaker 1: I believe she had some athletic training background or education,
39:49
Speaker 1: and she came in and saw the X rays and
39:52
Speaker 1: I'll never forget how she said, they don't look too bad.
39:57
Speaker 1: Tim could see it as well as anybody, and they
39:59
Speaker 1: looked at tros We knew what he had and the physicians,
40:03
Speaker 1: the doctors wanted to transport him to the hospital just
40:08
Speaker 1: because of the normal management for that significant of an injury,
40:11
Speaker 1: and he wasn't going to have it. I can remember
40:13
Speaker 1: doctor height Sor casting his leg and me holding his
40:18
Speaker 1: foot to try to stabilize it while that he was
40:21
Speaker 1: putting on the casts so that he could at least
40:24
Speaker 1: stay at the stadium for a time and watched the game.
40:27
Speaker 1: The paramedics did ask him if he wanted pain medication,
40:31
Speaker 1: because most patients would have requested it. He insisted he
40:35
Speaker 1: didn't want pain medication. He preferred an alcoholic beverage. I
40:39
Speaker 1: wasn't around to see if they offered that to him,
40:41
Speaker 1: but that's certainly what he requested. And then we did
40:45
Speaker 1: transport him finally before the game was over. And I
40:48
Speaker 1: remember the next day when we brought him back. In
40:51
Speaker 1: order to get him up on the plane, we actually
40:53
Speaker 1: put him in the food truck, food catering truck on
40:57
Speaker 1: his journey and pulled him up, brought him in through
41:00
Speaker 1: first class. And I mean, again, just a tough, tough injury,
41:05
Speaker 1: tough tough player. And but those stories are not stories,
41:10
Speaker 1: they are in fact. I was there. I was a
41:11
Speaker 1: witness to it. Has there been a Bengals injury that
41:15
Speaker 1: you found especially heartbreaking? Well, I think they all are
41:20
Speaker 1: all the I mean Kelvin Moore fractured his neck that
41:23
Speaker 1: ended his career when he was playing up in We
41:26
Speaker 1: were playing up in Pontiac, Michigan at the Silver Dome
41:30
Speaker 1: Scott Brumfield when he had the spinal cord concussion that
41:35
Speaker 1: left and paralyzed for months after the injury ultimately made
41:38
Speaker 1: a full and complete recovery. You know, the litany of
41:42
Speaker 1: serious injuries that Kajana Carter had. I mean, you just
41:45
Speaker 1: you felt for the kid because he wanted to do
41:49
Speaker 1: so much and so much was expected of him. An
41:51
Speaker 1: injury kept him from being able to reach his full potential.
41:56
Speaker 1: Icky Wood's shortened career as a result of a of
41:59
Speaker 1: an a cl injury. I mean, they all are tough.
42:03
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'd weigh one more than the other.
42:05
Speaker 1: But you know, injuries are not a good thing. And
42:09
Speaker 1: when you have to deliver bad news, you better be
42:13
Speaker 1: able to have a thick skin because not everybody's going
42:15
Speaker 1: to be thrilled with the information you give them. But
42:18
Speaker 1: you've got to be upfront and honest and take it
42:21
Speaker 1: and move on and go from there. Coaches want their
42:25
Speaker 1: players on the field. Your priority is health and safety.
42:28
Speaker 1: Is that push and pull difficult? It really isn't. I mean, here,
42:33
Speaker 1: it's always been made perfectly clear that the doctors do
42:36
Speaker 1: the doctoring, and that was made very clear from the
42:40
Speaker 1: very get go when Paul Brown first started the club
42:43
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight and it remains the same to
42:47
Speaker 1: this day. There are some things that we as athletic
42:50
Speaker 1: trainers and physical therapists and the physicians can do to
42:53
Speaker 1: help to help try to facilitate a speedy return, but
42:58
Speaker 1: safety still has to come first and foremost. You've got
43:01
Speaker 1: to make sure not only that the guy can be
43:02
Speaker 1: on the field and play, but play effectively. Number one
43:06
Speaker 1: and number two be able to protect themselves. So I
43:10
Speaker 1: think our biggest job is to communicate to the coaches
43:13
Speaker 1: and the players what the expectations are when the injury occurs,
43:17
Speaker 1: and then carry that out and understanding that there's a
43:20
Speaker 1: bell curve, there's an average. Some players will defy the
43:24
Speaker 1: odds and they can make us look good. Others are
43:28
Speaker 1: on the other side of that bell curve and they
43:29
Speaker 1: make us look not so good. But there's an average,
43:31
Speaker 1: and we know what to expect, and our job we
43:35
Speaker 1: want to get the players back on the field as
43:37
Speaker 1: soon as we can too, because there's no benefit to
43:39
Speaker 1: us keeping them on the sideline with us. And I
43:44
Speaker 1: understand the competitive nature of the position and the sport,
43:47
Speaker 1: and there are times we have some healthy discussions about that,
43:50
Speaker 1: and I get it. That's part of the deal. My
43:54
Speaker 1: job is to take care of the athlete, make sure
43:56
Speaker 1: that we're doing them right, not only for today, but
43:59
Speaker 1: for their life after a ball. And it's been made
44:01
Speaker 1: perfectly clear that that's the way ownership sees it, and
44:04
Speaker 1: I think it's a balancing act. But I think we've
44:07
Speaker 1: done a pretty good job of making that happen. You've
44:10
Speaker 1: been the Bengals point person for following the NFL COVID
44:14
Speaker 1: protocols for the last couple of years. I've seen those emails,
44:17
Speaker 1: I've been subjected to the testing. How did that affect
44:20
Speaker 1: you and the other people in the department, and how
44:24
Speaker 1: do you think the NFL did well. The fact that
44:27
Speaker 1: the NFL didn't have to cancel any games, I think
44:30
Speaker 1: speaks volumes. How in the world you can do that
44:32
Speaker 1: during a pandemic when the rule of thumb is six
44:34
Speaker 1: feet of distance between people was amazing. I didn't imagine
44:38
Speaker 1: it could happen, but incredibly it did. The league did
44:45
Speaker 1: give teams the latitude if they wanted to bring on
44:47
Speaker 1: additional people to help manage the COVID protocols to do that,
44:51
Speaker 1: and here we decided to absorb it amongst our staff.
44:54
Speaker 1: So it did require a lot of additional duties that
44:59
Speaker 1: we were not necessar necessarily trained for. We learned on
45:02
Speaker 1: the fly. We learned about contact tracing and COVID testing
45:07
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. And it wasn't just me,
45:09
Speaker 1: it was the entire staff. Our director Security handled the
45:13
Speaker 1: administrative folks. I handled more of the players, coach, coaches,
45:19
Speaker 1: and football staff in terms of enforcing the protocols, but
45:24
Speaker 1: it was an all hands on deck. We all played
45:27
Speaker 1: specific roles, but I will be the first to tell
45:30
Speaker 1: you it was like a second full time job, not
45:33
Speaker 1: only for me but also for our doctors as well,
45:36
Speaker 1: and it was a challenge. I'm glad it's over, at
45:40
Speaker 1: least for me. Hopefully it's over for everybody. Anyone who
45:46
Speaker 1: thought that the getting the vaccine was going to make
45:49
Speaker 1: the twenty one season easier was mistaken. It was not
45:53
Speaker 1: any easier. In my mind, the testing ultimately became easier,
45:56
Speaker 1: and I think as time went on, the NFL was
46:00
Speaker 1: able to demonstrate that you didn't need to test as
46:05
Speaker 1: frequently as they did. And at the same time, if
46:08
Speaker 1: you're asymptomatic and positive, what does it really mean? So
46:11
Speaker 1: I think a lot of questions were answered. I would
46:14
Speaker 1: assume that there'll be it'll be a little bit easier
46:17
Speaker 1: the next pandemic that runs around, and hopefully that won't
46:20
Speaker 1: be in my lifetime. What have you enjoyed most about
46:24
Speaker 1: four plus decades in the NFL. Well, I mean it's
46:29
Speaker 1: it's the people that you meet, the relationships that you develop,
46:32
Speaker 1: the things that you learn, and certainly Sunday afternoons at
46:36
Speaker 1: one o'clock, I mean, you can't beat it. It is
46:38
Speaker 1: an incredible experience. I feel sorry for our interns that
46:44
Speaker 1: worked with us during the twenty season that didn't get
46:47
Speaker 1: to experience what normal games are like. But the thrill
46:51
Speaker 1: of victory is incredible. And I've learned as well when
46:54
Speaker 1: the team doesn't win the game not to take it personal.
46:58
Speaker 1: Don't don't let that change your mood or your attitude.
47:02
Speaker 1: You have to kind of stay even keel. But it's
47:05
Speaker 1: just amazing to me. You get all these players coming
47:07
Speaker 1: from so many diverse backgrounds. You really begin to appreciate
47:12
Speaker 1: that there's so many different people, different upbringings, different family backgrounds,
47:18
Speaker 1: different medical backgrounds. To see them ultimately meld together as
47:24
Speaker 1: a team with one common focus is just it's an
47:28
Speaker 1: incredible experience to see it. You're still going to be
47:32
Speaker 1: around here at Paul Brown Stadium, got a lot of
47:34
Speaker 1: responsibilities still on your plate, but you have decided to
47:36
Speaker 1: retire as the head athletic trainer. Why and why now? Well?
47:42
Speaker 1: I had told Mike and Katie late in the year
47:46
Speaker 1: that I felt as though, after thirty years, it was
47:49
Speaker 1: time for me to begin to spend more time with
47:51
Speaker 1: my wife and family and begin to enjoy some of
47:55
Speaker 1: the things in life that we haven't been able to enjoy.
47:58
Speaker 1: The time commitment phenomenal. I never envisioned that I would
48:03
Speaker 1: last this long. Right now, there are three other head
48:06
Speaker 1: athletic trainers that have been in the league for twenty
48:08
Speaker 1: years or more, which is not very many. And I
48:13
Speaker 1: was just looking for, you know, a way to be
48:15
Speaker 1: into coast, if you will. Most people that when they
48:18
Speaker 1: run a marathon, they don't collapse when they get to
48:20
Speaker 1: the finish line, although some do. I don't want to
48:22
Speaker 1: be the collapse or I want to be the guy
48:24
Speaker 1: that kind of coasts to the finish and that to
48:27
Speaker 1: me was appealing. And I just you know that the
48:31
Speaker 1: last two years with COVID, it made things much more
48:34
Speaker 1: complicated and difficult and stressful. And it's time for me
48:37
Speaker 1: to lose a little bit of that stress. It's not
48:39
Speaker 1: good for you. And I want to be able to
48:42
Speaker 1: sit back and enjoy, you know, seeing what I've done
48:45
Speaker 1: and reflect back on it. And it's time for a
48:49
Speaker 1: younger generation to come in and start taking taking the reins.
48:54
Speaker 1: So it felt like a good time. I like even numbers,
48:57
Speaker 1: thirty as a nice even number. Marv Pollins, who I succeeded,
49:02
Speaker 1: was here for twenty four years, so I beat him
49:04
Speaker 1: by six, So I think I'm in pretty good stead
49:06
Speaker 1: with that. But it's been an absolute honor and pleasure,
49:09
Speaker 1: and being able to be affiliated with the Brown family
49:14
Speaker 1: as their head althletic trainer over all these years has
49:17
Speaker 1: just been something I never could have imagined. Yes, I
49:22
Speaker 1: did at one point in time in high school dream
49:24
Speaker 1: of becoming the head aletic trainer for the Bengals. Not
49:29
Speaker 1: only did I achieve it, but I have been able
49:31
Speaker 1: to maintain that for three decades, which is a quite
49:35
Speaker 1: a feat in and of itself. But it's time. I
49:38
Speaker 1: could feel it as the season went on, Yes, it
49:41
Speaker 1: was exciting with the playoffs and what have you, and
49:43
Speaker 1: I was so thankful to get another shot at it.
49:45
Speaker 1: In fact, when Zach and Joe came, I told them
49:49
Speaker 1: then that I was late in the fourth quarter and
49:52
Speaker 1: not planning on going into overtime, and I'd appreciate it
49:55
Speaker 1: if they do whatever they could to give us one
49:57
Speaker 1: more shot, and they did, Son of a Gun, and
50:01
Speaker 1: they'll have another shot next year, and we'll see where
50:03
Speaker 1: things end up. I'm just pleased to be able to
50:06
Speaker 1: do it on my terms, at my pace, and be
50:09
Speaker 1: able to contribute in whatever meaningful manner ownership feels like
50:14
Speaker 1: I can. I don't want to be in the way
50:15
Speaker 1: of my successor. I want to be in his corner
50:19
Speaker 1: and do everything I can to support him so that
50:21
Speaker 1: it's as smooth transition as anyone could ever imagine. You've
50:25
Speaker 1: had a remarkable career. Congratulations, I've enjoyed our interactions over
50:29
Speaker 1: the years. Best of luck going forward. Thank you, I
50:32
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Bengal's new head trainer is Matt Summers, who
50:36
Speaker 1: spent the last four years at the University of Louisville
50:39
Speaker 1: and has previous NFL experience with the Chargers, and now,
50:44
Speaker 1: as promised, it's time for another edition of Storytime with Dan.
50:56
Speaker 1: Here's the concept. I've been broadcasting in some shape or
51:00
Speaker 1: form since the mid nineteen eighties, when I had a
51:03
Speaker 1: thick head of red hair as a Syracuse University student.
51:07
Speaker 1: While my hair vanished, my experiences grew, and I have
51:11
Speaker 1: had the good fortune to cover Super Bowls, the World Series,
51:14
Speaker 1: the final four Major Bowl Games, shoot. I was once
51:18
Speaker 1: the announcer for the luge competition in Lake Placid. In
51:21
Speaker 1: other words, I have some stories to tell, and since
51:25
Speaker 1: this is Master's weekend, that's the topic for storytime with Dan.
51:30
Speaker 1: Here goes. I have been to the Masters once, not
51:34
Speaker 1: as a reporter, but as a spectator. Back in two
51:37
Speaker 1: thousand and five, which was the fourth of tiger Woods
51:40
Speaker 1: five Masters wins. He beat Chris de Marco in a playoff.
51:45
Speaker 1: That year, Tiger hit the most famous shot of his
51:47
Speaker 1: career and arguably the most famous shot in Master's history.
51:50
Speaker 1: Remember the chip shot on the par three sixteenth hole
51:54
Speaker 1: where he hit the ball toward the top of a
51:56
Speaker 1: ridge and then watched it slowly trickled downhill, and just
52:01
Speaker 1: before it looked like the ball was going to stop,
52:03
Speaker 1: it dropped in for a miraculous birdie with the Nike
52:07
Speaker 1: logo perfectly framed for TV. For nearly two seconds before
52:11
Speaker 1: tumbling in. Here's how Verne lun Quiz called it. On CBS.
52:16
Speaker 1: We pick up Verne's call as the ball is slowly
52:19
Speaker 1: rolling toward the cup. Now here it comes. Oh, my goodness,
52:41
Speaker 1: in your life, have you seen anything like that? As
52:45
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I have. I was there, standing
52:49
Speaker 1: a few feet away with my friends Joe and Paul.
52:52
Speaker 1: We got to the sixteenth hole a few groups before
52:54
Speaker 1: Tiger played it and were in perfect position to see
52:57
Speaker 1: him make history. Immediately after the tournament, my buddy Paul
53:01
Speaker 1: was obsessed with bragging that we were there, much like
53:05
Speaker 1: I am doing right now. But Paul said, we need proof,
53:08
Speaker 1: for nobody is going to believe it. So he called
53:11
Speaker 1: home after Tiger one and asked his wife if she
53:14
Speaker 1: recorded the final round like he had asked her too,
53:17
Speaker 1: and she said yes. So we were all set, or
53:20
Speaker 1: so we thought. Paul lived in Connecticut, and when he
53:24
Speaker 1: got home from Augusta, he reviewed the tape of Tiger's
53:27
Speaker 1: shot frame by frame. Unfortunately, you couldn't see us from
53:32
Speaker 1: where we were standing. The camera angles were wrong and
53:35
Speaker 1: the shots were too tight to really point out the
53:38
Speaker 1: three of us. I didn't really care. I figured my
53:41
Speaker 1: friends would believe me, but my pal Paul was devastated.
53:45
Speaker 1: There was no video evidence that we were standing a
53:47
Speaker 1: few feet away from Tiger Woods when he hit the
53:50
Speaker 1: most iconic shot of his career. So several months went by.
53:55
Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it, when all of a
53:57
Speaker 1: sudden one day, I see Paul's number hop up on
54:00
Speaker 1: my phone. Hey Paul, what's up. I can hear him
54:04
Speaker 1: huffing and puffing like he's just run a marathon. Finally,
54:07
Speaker 1: he says, go to the nearest bookstore and pick up
54:09
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour Annual. Then go to page twenty one.
54:12
Speaker 1: Got that PGA Tour Annual, Page twenty one. Click. So
54:18
Speaker 1: I go to a bookstore I find the new PGA
54:21
Speaker 1: Tour Annual. I opened it up to page twenty one,
54:24
Speaker 1: and sure enough, there was a two page color photograph
54:27
Speaker 1: of Tiger taken a split second after the ball had
54:31
Speaker 1: left his club, and sure enough, a few feet behind him,
54:34
Speaker 1: as clear as a bell, or me and my two
54:37
Speaker 1: buddies standing there with our mouths agape. The third guy
54:41
Speaker 1: in our group, my friend Joe, worked in publishing at
54:43
Speaker 1: the time, so he contacted the photographer and promised to
54:47
Speaker 1: use him on a future project. If the three of
54:49
Speaker 1: us could get the photograph, he agreed, and we all
54:53
Speaker 1: have it framed proof that we were there. That's a
54:57
Speaker 1: pretty good story, right, we'll believe it or not. That's
55:01
Speaker 1: not even the best part. On the Monday after the Masters,
55:04
Speaker 1: there's a vip outing where a few people get to
55:07
Speaker 1: play the course. It includes a lottery for some lucky
55:10
Speaker 1: media members, along with some corporate sponsors and other big wigs. Well,
55:15
Speaker 1: my friend Joe was sufficiently connected that when we made
55:18
Speaker 1: that trip in two thousand and five, it included an
55:21
Speaker 1: invitation to play in the vip outing on Monday. Greatest
55:26
Speaker 1: thing ever, right. Unfortunately, that year, most of the second
55:30
Speaker 1: round was rained out, meaning they had to play thirty
55:32
Speaker 1: six holes on Saturday, and we got a phone call
55:34
Speaker 1: late that day saying that due to the wet weather,
55:37
Speaker 1: the course was taking a beating and that the vip
55:40
Speaker 1: outing was going to be shortened and we did not
55:43
Speaker 1: make the cut. However, we were invited to give his
55:47
Speaker 1: contact at augusta National three dates later that summer where
55:51
Speaker 1: we could come back and they would allow us to
55:54
Speaker 1: play the course with a member. As far as I
55:57
Speaker 1: was concerned, that was even better. Sure, we would have
56:00
Speaker 1: to spend the money to get back down there, but
56:01
Speaker 1: so what we wouldn't be rushed through in a VIP outing.
56:05
Speaker 1: We would get the full Augusta National experience with a member.
56:09
Speaker 1: So we came up with our three dates. They said
56:12
Speaker 1: the first one was fine and we were all set,
56:16
Speaker 1: or so I thought. About a week before the big day,
56:19
Speaker 1: my friend Joe, who made the whole thing happen, came
56:22
Speaker 1: down with an inner ear infection so severe that he
56:25
Speaker 1: couldn't travel. Initially, me and the other guy, Paul thought,
56:29
Speaker 1: too bad for him, We're going, But after thinking about it,
56:32
Speaker 1: if not for Joe, we would have never had the opportunity.
56:36
Speaker 1: So he called his contact to Augusta National and explained
56:40
Speaker 1: the situation, and the guy said, we understand completely. Get
56:43
Speaker 1: healthy and we look forward to seeing you at the
56:46
Speaker 1: club at a future date. That was the summer of
56:49
Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Seventeen years later, we have not
56:54
Speaker 1: been back because his contact passed away. Moral of the story,
56:59
Speaker 1: if the chance to play Augusta National, do not turn
57:03
Speaker 1: it down. And that concludes this week's episode of Storytime
57:08
Speaker 1: with Dan. That's going to do it for this episode
57:18
Speaker 1: of the Bengals Booth Podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download
57:21
Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's
57:24
Speaker 1: free to play next level fantasy football with awesome Bengals prizes.
57:29
Speaker 1: Get it now on the App Store and Google Play.
57:32
Speaker 1: And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to
57:35
Speaker 1: this podcast and if you have a minute, give it
57:37
Speaker 1: a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals
57:40
Speaker 1: fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening
57:44
Speaker 1: to The Bengals Booth Podcast.