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What Your Kids Need When You're Getting A Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be sharing some time and space with you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for popping me in your ears.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is going to be really heavily focused on kids and particularly on what your kids really need if you're getting divorced.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: When clients or people approach me and they are just thinking about divorce, if they have children, it's one of the big questions that they ask.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's one of the things that keeps people awake at night, and it can actually be one of the things that keep people held.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say stuck, but that's not the right word.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: That keeps people held in a relationship that isn't exactly what they want.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: A relationship that's perhaps not lighting them up, a relationship that is not as happy and as healthy and as whole as perhaps it could be.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Kids can be one reason why as a parent you choose to stay in that relationship.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really, it's a really big topic, and today I'm just gonna touch on it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be some more podcast episodes about kids and the effects of divorce, separation on kids, but just know if you are sitting in that should I go, should I stay phase of unpacking a relationship, your kids don't need to be a reason to stay.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I really want to point out is all of the research that that points to kids being okay after divorce, it's not that it's not the divorce that damages kids, it is actually the conflict.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can um separate, divorce, and move forward in a kind, compassionate, collaborate, collaborative way, if you can keep your kids out of the conflict as much as possible, they will be fine.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's what all the evidence, that's what all the research suggests.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I know for many of you, kids is a is a big your kids is a big reason why you're lying awake at night wondering what to do.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm really honest and open here, I spent a really long time googling how to support my children through divorce.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Will my kids be okay after divorce?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: How to tell my kids we're getting divorced.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm pretty sure that many of you have either done it or are in the middle of doing it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So let's step through the things that I believe your kids really need if you're getting divorced or you're managing through a separate managing a family through separation, because there are a few key things that every kid needs from their parents as they navigate their divorce.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing that kids need, and this is going to sound really counterintuitive, and I know that it's not possible for every separating or divorcing couple, but the first thing they need to know is, or they need from you, is a united family.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, it's going to sound counterintuitive because you're separating, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: But even while you dismantle your relationship with your ex-partner, your husband, your wife, your kids need to know they still have a family, they still have a family unit.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And while it's not always possible, it's helpful if you can both, as parents, speak openly and honestly with your kids.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can discuss together how you will, as parents, tell the kids, for example, and you do that obviously before you tell them, have the conversation first, discuss it together.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the where, the when, and the what you're going to tell them, deciding ahead of time how much detail you're willing to share, of course, keeping it age and stage appropriate for your kids and your unique family circumstances.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can, if it's possible for you, tell them together as co-parents and tell all of your kids at the same time.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Don't drip feed it, don't tell the oldest first, tell them all at the same time.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Again, keeping that age and stage appropriate.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: You will then be able to go on and have individual conversations with individual kids, but if you can present a united front to them, it is really helpful and really supportive.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And once you have separated, the united family thing becomes united as parents, united as co-parents.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So try as much as you can to involve your ex-partner in all the things related to your kids because even though you're separating, divorcing, you remain connected by those kids.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: You remain a family even though it looks a little different and you don't all live in the same house.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing your kids really need as you divorce sounds counterintuitive, it is a united family.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And these are not in any order, by the way, because the second thing is a really big thing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing they need from you is to know that they are loved.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Reassure your kids that you'll both love them as much as you ever did, and that will never change.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes, separating couples talk about with their kids, they talk about we don't love each other anymore, which raises all sorts of questions and fears and stories about love and its longevity and kids' ability to trust in being loved.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: It makes kids question they love, question love generally, um, and the realization that sometimes it doesn't last forever.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they need to know that they are loved, they need deep reassurance that you will both love them unconditionally and always.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the second thing, maybe even the first thing, they need is to know that they are loved and that that love is never going away, it's never going to change.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have another podcast episode planned more about tips and guidance on exactly how to tell your kids or ideas about how to tell your kids.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I will speak more to the love issue and the love question with regard to kids in that episode.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So look out for that upcoming episode.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: The third thing your kids really, really, really need when you're separating, when you're divorcing, is to feel.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be able to feel all of the emotions and to know that it's okay to feel whatever it is that they are feeling.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, that's going to change day to day, week to week, month to month.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But support them again, age and stage appropriate, of course, but support them to express their feelings openly and in really constructive ways.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember when my kids were little in our family stomping your feet on the floor or punching your pillow or yelling into a cushion, I'm angry, I'm angry.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was perfectly okay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so you know, so he's saying, I'm so angry right now, I can't even speak.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever it, whatever it is in your family that's okay, find those constructive ways for your kids to allow all of their feelings: the happy, the sad, the angry, all of it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Allow it all to be normal, allow it all to be expressed and expressed fully.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Kids need to know that they don't have to hide their their feelings or minimize them from you.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: They also need to know, and this actually is the next thing that they need, they need to know that your feelings, your feelings are not their responsibility.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the fourth thing they need from you is they need to know it's not theirs.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they need to know that your feelings are not their responsibility.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean you hide your feelings from them, that doesn't mean you hide your sadness, your anger, your frustration.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: It just means you contain it and you keep it age and stage appropriate and you don't overshare it with them so that they don't feel like they have to take it on.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: They don't feel like it becomes theirs.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they need to know what is and is not theirs.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: To that end, reassure them that the divorce is not theirs, it's not their fault.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not even a little bit is their fault.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not their problem to carry, it's not their responsibility to fix, it's not theirs.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're not divorcing their other parent.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You are.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is not theirs, it's between the adults only.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this goes for older kids as well.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sounds like I'm speaking to small children here, but I'm talking teenagers, even adult children.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is not theirs.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't do anything to make it happen, they can't fix it, it's not their responsibility.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's the adults, the grown-ups, even with adult children, it's the adult problem, and nothing they did or didn't do caused the separation.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not their fault, it's not theirs.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So not only is the the responsibility for the way you react, you respond, you feel, that's not theirs, the divorce itself is also not theirs.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And as the adults, we have a responsibility to acknowledge what is ours and what is not theirs and keep ours for us.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like don't overshare or don't speak about the other parent.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Allow them to hold what is theirs, their feelings, their grief, their sadness, their anger, their relief, whatever it is.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: They can see you sad, they can see you upset, they can see you concerned, um, they can even see you a bit angry and frustrated, that's fine, but keep it age and stage appropriate and don't overshare, making it a child's problem, even if it's an adult child.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: The fifth thing your kids need is both of you.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Both of you there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they need reminding that both of you are still there for them, regardless of where each parent is living.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: They need to know that you're both there for them and that you have they have access to you whenever, wherever.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Allow space for them to talk with both parents, each parent separately, both parents together.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Allow that space and time, particularly after you've just told them, they're gonna go away and think about it, things are gonna come up, allow the space for them to come back and ask questions, clarify things, um, raise issues or concerns with you.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, I'm gonna speak to this in how to tell the how to tell your kids upcoming podcast episode.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's possible for your family to tell the kids and then not have one parent immediately pack and leave, but to give them a little bit of processing time so that you can both be there while they pro have this initial processing time, go away, think about things, come back with questions, it can be really supportive.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not possible for every family, but if both of you can be there for some time after that initial conversation, it gives them processing time and allows them to come back and as I said, answer, ask questions, clarify things with both of you.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So allowing space to talk, to listen, to help them understand.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they'll need to talk, sometimes they won't, sometimes all they need is a hug or some one-on-one time with you or with their other parent.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Use your words, like talking is great, but also your time and attention will remind you that you're both there, and that you always both will be there, available to them, supporting them and helping them process what's going on for them as you navigate this next phase of family.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do remind them to not or not to, not to stay quiet, bottle things up, shut things down if they're worried or angry or concerned.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have that open door policy, open dialogue policy.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, acknowledging also that sometimes it's okay not to talk, but remind them that you're both still there for them, allow them full access to both parents, um, particularly in those early phases of processing.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing your kids need when you're separating divorcing, when their parents are separating and divorcing, is a voice.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: They need a voice, they need to have some form of agency in this process.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Again, age and stage appropriate.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: They don't get to drive the bus because they're kids, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: The parents, the adults drive the bus here.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: But they need a voice, they need a say.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Give your kids an opportunity to discuss with you about what they want moving forward.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Again, age, developmental stage appropriately, give them an opportunity to talk about it, to discuss it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: They might have ideas that you haven't even considered.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Give them a chance to be involved in the process, if not in that final decision-making stage.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Give them a chance and a voice during the process.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Validate them, validate their thoughts, their feelings, their ideas, allow their ideas, even the crazy ones, because sometimes the crazy ideas lead us to a really, really powerful solution that no one's ever thought about before.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Allow them some agency, again, managing that so that they don't become overwhelmed or burdened with decisions that they're not mature enough to navigate, those decisions that should be driven by the adults in the picture.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So allow them a voice, but also remember to keep what is adult adult.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let them take on what they don't need to take on.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Have those really clear boundaries around what is theirs, even when and even while allowing them a voice.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing your kids need, well, three things kindness, courtesy, and respect.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: As you're navigating your divorce, your kids really, really need kindness, courtesy, and respect.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, for them, for the kids, but especially.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Especially they need this for their other parent.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: They need you to demonstrate kindness, courtesy, and respect for their other parent.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's an awesome um documentary by Malka, and I'll drop the link in the show notes, where there's a child psychologist and he speaks about hearing one child say, I'm half of each of my parents.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when you speak badly or you're mean about my other parent, you're speaking badly or being mean to half of me, or something along those lines.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So your kids need you to speak of, speak about, speak to, even, and treat their other parent with kindness, courtesy, and respect.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Again, going back to what is theirs, allow them a relationship with their parent that is not muddied by your disintegrating or your separate your disintegrating relationship, intimate partner relationship with that parent.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Treat your other parent, your co-parent, with kindness, courtesy, and respect, saving your complaints and frustrations, your anger, all that stuff for another trusted adult in your circle, not your kids.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't speak badly of their other parent in front of or to them ever.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Even when you think they can't hear.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: If they're in the space, don't speak badly about that other parent.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not receiving that from the other side, just find ways to acknowledge what's coming from the other side without opting into it and without repeating the behavior.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So your kids need kindness, courtesy, and respect for themselves, but also for their other parent.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids also need what I call clear space.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Kids need to be kept out of the middle.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: They need clear space, they need to be shielded as much as is possible from any conflict or disagreement between you and your ex-partner, you and their other parents.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Parent, I should say, maybe parents.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Kids need clear space from conflict between their parents.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: They need clear space from all the legal and financial stuff.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: They need clear space.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to feel like messages, messenger mess, I can't even say it, messengers between you and your ex.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to be asked to report what's happening in the other parents' home because they feel like spies, and they don't want to feel like they need to be the peacekeepers.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the kids need clear space.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Offer your kids the opportunity, the gift, whatever you want to call it, of clear space between their parents.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it goes back to what is and is not theirs.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: The conflict, the disagreement, the legals, the financials, none of that's theirs.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: They need a clear space to have a full, loving, open relationship with both of you, even while you are unraveling your partner relation, your partnership as parents.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or not as parents, your partnership.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're not unraveling your parenting ship, your parenting relationship.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: What else do your kids kids need?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids need a team.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: They need a team of supporters.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So gather others around your kids who can support and care for them and love them up and hold them in this space.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, teachers, coaches, whoever it is, build your kids' team of supporters.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And in our family, we used to call them, we used to call these people our catchers.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: The ones you can turn to or lean on.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't feel like you can talk to each other, or my kids perhaps feel like there's stuff they want to share, they don't really want to share with me or with their dad, but they want someone else to bounce those ideas off.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: They need someone else to hug and hold them in all sorts of ways.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So remind your kids of all the people who are in their lives who will love and hold them, who will catch them if they stumble.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really, really key, I think, as parents, not just through this, not just through the divorce, but also broader, more broadly, through life.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Build a team of supporters around your kids.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be family, it doesn't have to be blood, but start building that team of catchers and supporters so they know that they've got others in their life who will always have their back.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids need to know it'll be okay.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sure.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Family life, daily life is going to look and feel different.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, things will change, and those changes will take time to adjust to, and then there'll be more changes, and then things will change again for all of you.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's uncertainty, there's fear, there's change, but reassure them that it will be okay.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: We will be okay, you will be okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Reassure them that you will hold them through all of this.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You'll put them first, you'll do your best to make sure that they are okay.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, I'm not minimizing it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's perfectly fine to acknowledge that it's hard.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is really hard, and there's gonna be hard stuff to come, and we will all be okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the the thing, the final thing that your kids really need from you is to know that it will be okay, to know that there's a future, to know that there's something on the other side of this hard stuff that looks and feels sure different, but it feels okay.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It might not feel fantastic, but it feels okay, and you will all be okay.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to finish by acknowledging that you know collaborative divorce and co- and cooperative kind co-parenting, well, co-parenting full stop is not possible for every family.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not possible for lots of reasons, and sometimes we need to choose a parallel parenting model.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sugarcoating, I'm not minimizing.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes this um collaborative, cooperative approach just isn't possible.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not safe, it's not possible.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But even if your separation is not collaborative, even if your co-parenting relationship is challenged, or you're not co-parenting, you're parallel parenting, by you keeping these needs at the forefront of your mind, even if it's not matched from the other side, the other parent, you keeping these things that your kids really, really need at the top of your at the top of your mind, forefront of your mind, this is really in deep, deep support of your children moving through your separation, your divorce, because remember, it's not theirs.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is in really deep support of your children being able to move through your divorce in healthy ways.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you've found this helpful, supportive, or you know someone else who will find it helpful and supportive, please share it with them.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would love if you would rate, review, and follow the podcast wherever you're listening.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need next level support, let's jump on a call and see how I can support you and your kids through divorce so that you will all be okay.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next month for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberation.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.