Transcript

The Substance · Citizen Frame

0:00
Oh oscar winner my ass when was that back in the 30s what for kate con,
0:10
no i don't give a fuck what we promised her this is network tv not a fucking
0:17
charity find me somebody new now used causing an alteration so i'm just looking
0:28
for the procedure to reverse it.
0:30
What has been used on one side is lost on the other side. There is no going back.
0:40
No. I don't know what she was thinking. And obviously, she was drunk.
0:46
Remember, there is no she and you. You are one.
0:50
Respect the balance, and you won't have any more inconveniences.
0:55
Hello everyone, welcome back to Citizen Frame I do apologize,
0:59
been a little delay here Some personal matters and so forth So,
1:03
you know, sometimes that can happen It's unfortunate, but it does happen But
1:06
rest assured, we are back,
1:09
And we are here to talk a new release Before I go any further,
1:12
I do forget This is a new release And it's going to be completely spoiler-filled,
1:17
So, if you haven't seen the movie The Substance Fuck it, give us a listen Keep
1:22
listening anyway, you know?
1:24
If you want to listen to a review podcast or any review, you got to expect spoilers.
1:32
So, yeah, I didn't want to see this. It's like, I'm not into body horror.
1:37
I'm not into this, you know, crap.
1:39
I remember seeing a film years ago, and this film has a lot of nod to this film.
1:44
And the movie was David Cronenberg's Dead Ringers. Yes.
1:48
And I remember Jeremy Irvin's being brilliant in it, but I remember the ending
1:52
being soul destroying and depressing.
1:54
I just wanted to hang myself and.
1:58
It's actually quite a good movie, in all fairness, considering it's body horror.
2:02
It becomes body horror at the very end. It's Kornenberg.
2:06
During this time, you had The Fly, would be another Kornenberg,
2:10
must know that body horror.
2:12
You had, but you also have these quirky stuff coming out, like society is a perfect one to mention.
2:17
It's great fun. This movie kind of goes that route, and I think it's the movie's
2:22
downfall. And we will talk about that.
2:25
I'm on the edge here, guys, and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
2:28
And the reason I say that is because I give Hereditary the biggest,
2:32
hardest time. I tear that film to shreds.
2:35
Despite the fact 97% of that film being fucking masterclass.
2:42
The acting, the suspense, everything. But those last three, four minutes,
2:48
it's laughable, cheese fest shit.
2:52
And I went off on that podcast. It's actually, uh, I, and I'm still angry at
3:00
Maury Lester for just destroying a pretty, pretty good vision he had going there.
3:06
But, but, but, but, but there's trees and naked old people.
3:10
Yeah. Well, we kind of got a naked old person in this one. Well, yep.
3:15
But we'll dive into it because this is where I'm at with substance.
3:19
I'm telling you right now, people. And I've watched it three times.
3:23
That's pretty fair of me. And I want to give this movie a pass and I'm this
3:28
close, but do I not because of the ending, but we'll dive into it.
3:33
And hopefully this conversation will put me in, you know, a winning,
3:38
winning, winning circle or the losing circle.
3:41
And as we discuss the substance and we'll see what happens.
3:46
All right, this is written and directed by a French lady, Coralie Farge,
3:51
and I apologize if I'm butchering that.
3:54
She did a film back in like 2017, which is really fucking good.
3:58
You guys need to check it out. It's called Revenge.
4:02
The film is about a young woman dating a rich man, and while the rich man is
4:07
out, one of the rich friends rapes her, and it's pretty brutal, actually.
4:11
It's a hard watch, and they leave her for dead, and then she comes back to kill them all.
4:18
It is awesome. It is kind of like I can say, I spit on your grave kind of stuff. Yes.
4:23
It's a revenge thriller. Check it out. It's called Revenge 2017.
4:27
It's got a chick on the cover holding a gun.
4:30
You'll probably know, and then obviously you'll see her name on board.
4:35
Now she wrote and directed both these films, which I applaud actors.
4:38
I really applaud the filmmakers who write and produce and direct their own stuff. So kudos to that.
4:44
We start off with a minimal cast which is nice you got
4:47
my girl jimmy moore who plays elizabeth you got a
4:50
newcomer margaret qualley as sue and
4:53
then you got the great dennis quaid playing harvey ha ha
4:56
ha named it for probably harvey weinstein and then
5:00
you got and that's it that's all you kind of really need to know again i love
5:03
my films with minimal casts and let's
5:06
just uh see what we got here okay this
5:10
movie's fucking batshit crazy we talked about
5:12
uh your boyfriend david lynch and we
5:16
talked about that with twin peaks even though his shit gets bat so fucking batshit
5:21
crazy what the fuck are we watching there's a realism to it it's it's a fable
5:27
they're fairy tales yes side fairy in blended with a a realistic approach of
5:33
what could be happening in modern-day small-town USA.
5:36
Yes. And that's what he kind of focuses on, the seedy underbelly of what you might not really see.
5:44
And I said that movie was quite disturbing because of the brutality of these
5:48
actresses or the exploitation of these actresses we're getting.
5:53
But it does hit you hard, and maybe that's what Lynch was doing.
5:57
And this film kind of goes in that direction.
6:00
Not in a sexual manner, but...
6:03
Well, we'll dig a little deeper into it. And again, going back to what I said
6:08
in the beginning, am I being a hypocrite because this does exploit the women
6:12
a bit, but does it have a point? Well, this is the thing.
6:16
And also, of course, we must also address, but is it okay for it to do that
6:22
in a certain way because it's directed by a woman? You know, what's the difference?
6:26
You know, again, I don't know the answer to that, but it's certainly a question worth posing.
6:32
But yeah i i would i would say
6:34
one of the things that you've just sort of mentioned as well apart you
6:37
know basically this film being batshit crazy i think that's actually one of
6:41
its flaws there is there's no subtlety here at all and the lack of nuance you
6:47
know as it appears it's intentional but i do think that goes against it somewhat
6:52
well we'll dive a little deeper here and see kind of what works and what doesn't.
6:58
And I do like kind of the whole opening scenes, pretty much before we even kind of get to the titles.
7:05
And it pretty much just opens up just a simple shot of a needle going into an egg.
7:12
And then that egg developing multiplies into a second one. The yolks,
7:18
yeah, the yolks multiply.
7:20
I actually find that turned me a bit. And I like eggs.
7:23
They're just something unnatural and and something about
7:26
it that makes me feel queasy is that the point yes of
7:29
course but yeah but it does it's just about sort of it
7:32
makes me feel about queasy but i do like when they
7:35
then cut to elizabeth sparkles you know she's getting her a walk of fame star
7:42
put on and it shows the progression of the star being put in on on the sidewalk
7:49
and then it shows the progression of the ceremony, then it shows the progression of bad weather,
7:54
then it shows the progression of people just walking on it, and then it shows
7:57
the deterioration of the star.
7:58
Yeah. It's pretty much the life, the career of an upcoming star.
8:03
100%. Beginning of the Walk of Fame to what happens to a star they're pretty
8:08
much just forgotten about.
8:09
Yeah, and they have all sorts of shit thrown on them, and yeah.
8:13
Yeah. Yeah, and that's what it was pretty much trying to say.
8:16
So the film kind of pretty much paints you, pretty much paints you,
8:21
tells you, tells you the story, what we're about to see in one simple little shot.
8:26
And I always liked that. You don't have the 20 minute, you know,
8:31
Danny Donald or expose monologue or kind of like what I'm doing right now.
8:36
It's just a simple shot of one star's rise to fame and then back right back down.
8:45
Yep. Yeah. Love the opening shot.
8:48
But you have our girl, Liz.
8:55
We're going to call her Demi Moore. Yes. Okay, we're going to say Demi.
9:00
I love my Demi. Let's get it all this way. I love Demi Moore since about last night.
9:05
I love Demi Moore since Sending I Almost Fire.
9:09
I love Demi Moore since Ghost.
9:12
I love Demi Moore since A Few Good Men.
9:14
I love her since Disclosure, her best role. I liked her since G.I.
9:18
Jane I even enjoy striptease as tongue in cheek as it was. I've always liked Demi Moore as well.
9:24
Yeah, I mean yeah, she's one of those 80s sort of Brat Pack type actors I've
9:30
always liked Earlier on you referenced I Spit on Your Grave.
9:34
Did you know that the original poster for that featuring the girl in her underwear
9:39
is actually Demi Moore when she was a young model?
9:41
She says she won't and she won't say yes or no to that Right.
9:46
So it's all confirmed. It's not proven yet. It's not confirmed.
9:48
Right. She says she'll never let people know. Okay. That means it is. Yeah, pretty much.
9:54
Because they asked that, what's that, I spit on a grave documentary? Uh-huh.
9:57
And they didn't even say. Right. So it'd be, someone's done a hush-hush.
10:02
Yeah. Because she would have to be 16.
10:05
She would have been very young.
10:07
Yeah. I was 18. Yeah.
10:11
What year was she born? I don't know, but she's 61.
10:15
In real life. So she's 61. I'm going to tell you guys right now,
10:19
she looks fucking amazing. I agree.
10:21
She doesn't go for all that shit.
10:24
She's maybe had a little bit of help. I mean, it's Hollywood.
10:27
Let's be realistic here.
10:29
I don't think she has. Well, I don't know to the extent that she has or has
10:33
not. I don't know, but she does look fantastic for a woman of 61.
10:37
Love her. Looks great. But we open up, she's one of these jazzercise.
10:42
And the great thing about this film, again, And I think she's playing Naj to Lynch or Tarantino.
10:48
You really don't know the time era.
10:50
You got vacuums. Yes. So they're from the 70s. You got flat screen,
10:54
big screen TVs. Newspapers.
10:56
You got newspapers. Then you got 80s jazzercise. Yes. So it's like,
11:01
where are we here? What's that kind of like? Exactly. I like when you kind of make it your own.
11:05
So good on you. But yet there's modern mobile phones. So yes,
11:08
there is a confusion as to, an intentional confusion as to, it's basically in
11:13
my head, It's set in a sort of parallel reality So.
11:17
And I do love how when she's, we get a quick glimpse of her,
11:21
you know, teaching and doing this jazzercise, she goes into the bathroom,
11:25
obviously take a, take a break, whatever.
11:27
And then we introduce to Harvey. He comes in and she doesn't,
11:31
he doesn't know she's in there and he's pretty much going, get me a younger, better looking woman.
11:36
We're replacing her. This woman's done. He's just a backstabbing prick.
11:40
Yes. Playing that Hollywood kind of producer, the Harvey Weinstein, I guess you can say.
11:46
Yes. He's just a pig. And again, what they do with these kind of,
11:51
what she does with these shots, every time he's in the shot,
11:53
he gets in your face in the camera.
11:56
Even when he's taking a piss, he's right in your face. Even when he's eating
12:00
the prawns, he's right in your face.
12:01
It just shows you the way he eats and he pisses. He's just a pig.
12:06
And I think that's what her point of introducing him like that.
12:10
I get some of the points. you know all of the male characters
12:13
here are portrayed as either perverts
12:16
or pigs or both that does again
12:20
obviously it's intentional but that does sort
12:23
of you know lack nuance or any
12:26
real depth but i get that it's intentional and this is a satire you have so
12:34
she goes on this down a spiral and it's done pretty quickly where she gets in
12:40
this car action because she's obviously upset what she overheard.
12:43
She's pretty much being, you know. Replaced? Replaced.
12:48
And she was getting out of the accident.
12:51
I do like the little twist where the young nurse, he pretty much checks out
12:57
her spine once the doctor leaves, and he's pretty much part of this whole substance team.
13:04
Yes. And we found out later that he's a doppelganger. Yeah, we'll find out.
13:09
We actually made the older version of him.
13:11
Yeah, and so that's how she's introduced to the substance.
13:17
He gives her that flash drive.
13:20
Yes, that's right. Well, and then there's another scene, they plant the seed
13:24
in where she meets an old high school friend.
13:26
This guy's Fred, I believe his name is. Yeah.
13:29
And he's kind of a nerdy insurance salesman. Doesn't have a chance in the world
13:32
with somebody like Demi, but she's kind of standoffish, but she's polite.
13:37
She's not a mean character.
13:39
She's actually quite a decent character. And so is he. He's quite likable.
13:44
Yeah, he's not a bad guy either, but she clearly doesn't have a chance.
13:48
But she doesn't blow him off. She won't do that. she will give me your number and I'll call you.
13:53
She's not going to do it but she'll give them, she's not going to treat them
13:56
like something at the bottom of her shoe Yeah.
13:59
Like most people in her position would and that does come back,
14:05
Yes, but it is an issue, we'll get to it later on that I have with that plot,
14:10
that subplot Yeah, that whole sequence this is where.
14:16
Her arc got me a little confused Well, yes, exactly.
14:19
It's not followed up, but we'll get to that. We will follow up.
14:22
So this company, she makes the call and she gets a key.
14:27
It's a 503, you know, it's a key card and it's in this alleyway and you go in
14:32
there and you get this substance.
14:33
So each day, every seven days, you switch.
14:38
You got your own body and then you got your doppelganger's body. Yep.
14:43
Yeah. And the longer your doppelganger stays outside the seven days,
14:49
your body starts to transition. Yes, it'll damage it.
14:52
It will damage it in some form or another. Yes.
14:55
It's very Black Mirror. I would say the substance itself and the whole plot
14:59
with the substance, it's very Black Mirror, Charlie Brooker-esque.
15:03
But it's, I mean, yes, it's illogical. But in the context of this film,
15:09
yeah, we're running with it.
15:12
Yeah. So you start off with the activator, then you got the stabilizer,
15:15
then you got the switch. Yes.
15:17
And then you got the food stuff, the food matrix for both of them to keep them
15:20
alive when they're not alive. Yeah. When they're, yeah.
15:24
So this is where I get confused. We meet, we got Sue.
15:29
Sue will become her younger version of herself. Yes. Now.
15:36
Here's where I'm confused. So Demi injects herself. Yes.
15:42
And it comes out of her spine, the other half. She was born out of her back. Yeah, she was born.
15:51
And Andy McDowell's kid, by the way. Yes, I know that. Yep, yep.
15:55
And about a million times a better actress than Andy McDowell as well, I would say.
16:00
Oh, that's not fair. What's wrong with Andy McDowell? I have nothing to answer
16:03
personally. I just don't think she's a very good actor.
16:05
Whereas her daughter here especially, Margaret Gawley is very good Fine actress
16:11
Four weddings and a funeral Oh no Yeah, the reason you don't like Four weddings
16:16
is because there's no fucking sadomasochist.
16:21
I was just missing the whole sort of trees and naked old people on it You know?
16:26
Yeah, whatever Or like torture porn or something No, I don't even like torture
16:33
porn It's not 18 It has to be 18.
16:37
You were fucking 18. By the way, Andy McDowell is not very good at all for weddings
16:44
and a funeral, and I have seen it.
16:46
And it's, well, you know, each to their own, whatever. I don't care.
16:50
But there's a particular line towards the end of it where she says to Hugh Grant,
16:54
Is it raining? I hadn't noticed.
16:56
It's the worst delivered line in possibly film history. Wow.
16:59
For a man who hates the fucking movie, you fucking know the script.
17:03
Margaret Qualley, her daughter on the other hand is a very good actor as this
17:09
film proves well, no offense, it's one film I've seen her in a couple she's
17:13
good in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,
17:16
but there's all young actresses that are now kind of making it in that I'm just saying.
17:22
By the way just before we continue see in this scene, did you know that Margaret
17:27
Qualley is not actually, technically not naked here, because their actual breasts,
17:34
their fake breasts she has on.
17:37
Prosthetic breasts. I heard that's a lie. I don't. It is her breasts.
17:41
That's what I read, but, you know, who knows. Wow. There you go.
17:45
If they are fake, it's very well done. You're putting down this woman's breasts
17:48
now. Wow. Well, hey, you can't exactly avoid it in this fucking film.
17:53
I mean, this is, like, full on. Both actresses came, they came fully, fully prepared.
18:00
And the amazing thing about this film this movie's not about sex,
18:06
there's no sex in it, it's kind of a little throwaway scene,
18:09
you don't see anything but it's just.
18:14
It's weird because I don't know how to go with it because Jimmy Moore's fully
18:17
naked and so is Margaret Qualley and amazing bodies but I,
18:23
It's weird why they did that. It's not done in a sleazy manner.
18:31
No, it's not. It's beautiful. It's art, I guess you can say.
18:35
It's done in a manner where it's about women, one woman in particular,
18:40
Elizabeth Sparkle, reflecting on getting old.
18:43
This is about basically society's obsession with youth and beauty.
18:48
And in this scene in particular, when she's looking at herself stark naked in
18:52
the mirror, it's about a woman of a certain age an older woman looking at herself
18:57
who she's just lost her job because she's been considered too old and it's about her reflecting,
19:03
on, so it's not pornographic, let's just say, even though it's not,
19:08
it's not, I wouldn't say that at all either,
19:11
there's lots of arses and tits in this but it is not pornographic in the sense
19:16
of in a sexual way, you know,
19:20
when Debbie's in the mirror before she goes and does this,
19:24
she's looking at all of her.
19:28
Everything around her body, things that have changed, you know,
19:31
freckles and basic stuff like that.
19:34
Yes, birthmark. Birthmark, yeah. And what we see as normal, she sees as imperfections
19:39
now because of the way she's been treated in the industry.
19:42
And then we get the same image once she goes under and we're introduced to Sue.
19:48
Sue does the same thing, but everything's perfect. Yes.
19:51
And she is And you can see the way she's posing in the mirror And yada yada
19:57
yada Which is confident, Sue is confident She's confident where we just got
20:01
the opposite Five minutes earlier Yes,
20:03
exactly A couple of things did bug me Demi Moore has brown eyes,
20:07
Sue has blue eyes Also, Sue's born with earrings,
20:12
You know But,
20:14
You know, I can sort of let them pass Are you sure?
20:17
She didn't put them on? She didn't take them from her?
20:20
I could be wrong maybe but I'm sort of basing this on two viewings of it the
20:25
big one that did bug me was the I'm not a biologist,
20:30
I'm not a scientist I don't know much about cloning I'm not Dickie Attenborough
20:34
in Jurassic Park I know but you can't nitpick this when it comes to the scientific
20:40
fact of it because come on it's a twilight zone so you can't go there,
20:45
don't try to always come out of her spine they should have given They should have given Sue.
20:52
Margaret Qualley, brown contact lenses to her, in my opinion. Why?
20:58
Because Demi Moore's got brown eyes, and she's her clone. She's not a clone. She more or less is.
21:04
No, she's not. She's a younger version of herself. No, she's not.
21:07
Because she's just a younger woman.
21:13
Slightly looks like her, but not a clone at all. But she's not supposed to be.
21:17
She is? That's my question. that's my question that's where I have a problem with the film.
21:23
So many questions. So when Sue, when she has her day out, you know,
21:31
and she's doing it right.
21:34
And then when she finally, she finds the job opening for, ironically enough, Liz's job.
21:41
Yes. She goes for it and gets it.
21:43
So she starts to realize, I like this.
21:46
She starts, you know, her naive kind of, where am I?
21:51
What am I doing here? kind of attitude within the
21:54
day pretty much changes to her i'm gonna
21:57
be the best bitch there is you know i mean i'm the girl i'm the girl i'm
22:00
gonna be the you know the cover model of the year whatever but what i don't
22:05
get she knows the whole thing the stabilizing the food she's got to reject herself
22:12
each day with some of the spinal fluid i guess you can say from demi more to
22:16
her so she doesn't get the nosebleeds and start deteriorating.
22:20
And she's got to do that for seven days and then go back to sleep.
22:25
And then Demi wakes up, got that.
22:28
What I don't get, and this is two big ones. Go ahead. One.
22:33
Why doesn't Demi then see what Sue is doing on her time?
22:39
The only thing she sees is what she gets from the big billboard or what the
22:44
apartment looks like, or she might have a quick dream.
22:47
You know, we see that they both kind of dream what they've done, but that's kind of it.
22:52
And also, this is the bigger one. What does Liz get from this?
22:58
Yeah, exactly. No, no, I agree with you. with that second point about Liz doesn't actually,
23:02
well it's sort of connected to your first point and your first question,
23:05
Liz doesn't actually get to live out Sue's life she's asleep,
23:10
that's my point, she's unconscious so yes,
23:12
there is a lot of illogical stuff within this film that doesn't make sense I
23:18
get that it's a satire and it's more about the point, it's more about a commentary
23:22
on society being obsessed with youth and beauty,
23:27
so you can and sort of, in a way, give it a bye ball.
23:32
But for me, I prefer scripts and stories to be watertight and to be logical
23:38
within the context of their own universe.
23:41
But here, there are flaws, to say the least.
23:45
Exactly. So Demi Moore, you know, Elizabeth Sparkle, doesn't actually get to
23:50
experience what her younger self is experiencing.
23:53
It's a separate entity, a separate person.
23:56
Yeah. It could be like your sister. Yes. And at least with your sister,
24:00
you're experiencing her experiences with her. Yeah.
24:02
She doesn't experience any of this. I don't get what she's benefiting from this.
24:06
And even when Sue decides to stay an extra day. Yes.
24:12
And then Demi wakes up and she's got a finger.
24:16
There's no... I would have shut that down in two seconds. Yeah, I know that.
24:20
I know. I know. And I just don't get what she's benefiting. And some... I don't know.
24:27
I think the problem is the film thinks it's too smart for its own good.
24:34
Yeah, it's nowhere near as clever in terms of the script and the story because
24:38
it's full of plot holes and characters with a logical sort of I don't know,
24:44
making illogical decisions and motivations as well.
24:48
I suppose it can sort of be explained away with Elizabeth actually taking the
24:53
substance in the first place because she was desperate but she got drunk and
24:58
she was just feeling so bad.
24:59
But yes, like you say, especially once your fingers started rotting away,
25:04
but also, would you really want to be out cold unconscious for a week while
25:09
some other non-entity who you've never met before and is like born out of your
25:13
back and is actually sort of basically a creepy weird alien is knocking about
25:18
having the best life ever,
25:20
even though you don't know that they're having the best life ever.
25:22
It's just, it does seem pointless.
25:25
Yeah, because when she... She calls the little helpline or whatever it is,
25:29
right? Yeah. And all the machine says...
25:32
There's no you or she. You are one. Respect the balance and there will be no issue.
25:37
Well, how is he supposed to? And you need to take control of this. Well, how?
25:41
With a post-it? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
25:45
I think, and it's a problem with a lot of films these days, is that especially
25:49
sort of bigger sort of budget films and stuff, the problem is that they think that J.J.
25:56
Abrams is bad for it. They think that people, audiences are too stupid to ask
26:00
questions that we're asking now.
26:02
And they'll just, they'll not even think about it. And it's like a magic trick.
26:06
But there's always assholes like me and you who are here to ask these tough questions, you know?
26:13
You know, it sounds like I'm tearing it apart, but I'm not. I'm actually,
26:16
the movie's two and a half hours. It flies by. I'm shocked how quick it flies by.
26:21
It is intriguing. It's an intriguing film.
26:23
It's just not very water tension. When you examine it closely.
26:27
When you watch it so many times, you're kind of like, wait, what?
26:30
And then you've got the scene where she goes to the diner and the male nurse, his doppelganger,
26:37
well, the real version of him is there and he's older, but he's not looking like what she becomes.
26:46
And that's another thing I don't get because he says to her,
26:49
has she started eating away at you yet? Which is kind of a creepy line. Yeah.
26:54
But he looked just more scared than.
26:58
What yeah well i sort of what is the point of of
27:01
him of him doing it anyway just to have some clone
27:04
be born out of him just so he can work in a fucking hospital
27:07
you know what i mean it's all right for like sue because she's
27:10
like a superstar and stuff it's just there's a i've watched
27:13
this twice the first time i did enjoy it
27:16
by the way i brought my fucking mother to see this talk about feeling embarrassed
27:20
you know yeah we need to talk about
27:22
the movies you bring your mother to by the my mum's a
27:25
horror fan but so it's actually all right but no no so the first
27:28
time i did enjoy it i watched it in the cinema and you
27:32
know i did enjoy it but i did feel it was let down by the absolutely
27:35
crazy finale whenever it completely loses
27:37
the plot the second time watching it i just found myself getting frustrated
27:42
and picking holes in it the problem is the more times you view it it loses well
27:46
actually the second time you view it it loses its shock value so then all you
27:51
have left is to examine the story in more detail and and that's whenever it does fall apart.
27:58
Yeah, I mean, that's where I'm having a problem with it. A good film that can
28:01
kind of fuck you up in the head, like it did originally, has replay value. Yes.
28:06
You got to dissect it and see what's going on. This one, as you dissect it, oh, what?
28:12
Yeah. Huh? What the fuck? I have now, I have more questions now.
28:17
Yeah. And it becomes not only a nice little tight little fun story,
28:23
which I was surprisingly surprised I liked. now I just want to I have more like
28:27
it becomes a what if movie or a what?
28:30
You become frustrated with the plot holes so the
28:34
scene I I get lost
28:37
on it's probably the best moment for me and especially
28:41
sold by Demi is the Fred scene so
28:44
she decides she's going to call Fred and
28:47
go out and have that drink with him and because she's
28:51
become this is a good arc for her she's like more
28:54
humbled now yep because she don't she's no
28:57
long she's no longer she's no longer the
29:01
the woman she knew she once was she
29:03
she sees the billboard in front of her all the time of of sue
29:07
now becoming her and so she's accepted she started you don't have to accept
29:11
that and she's in the mirror and she's getting all dolled up her cleavage and
29:15
massive makeup and she's gonna leave and then she comes back to the mirror and
29:20
decides to sex up a little bit with the hair and then she stops, goes back.
29:25
Looks at the billboard, and then I thought for a second she is turned where
29:31
she's done with this fake shit.
29:34
And she goes into the bathroom, tears off her hair, rips off her makeup violently,
29:40
and decides not to go out.
29:42
Because it shows that the character doesn't know what direction to go. She doesn't want to go.
29:47
Does she want to sell herself to this man, Fred, as a sexy sex symbol that he
29:51
wants to see? or does she go as, you know, the country gal that she once was?
29:57
But no, no. And that's where I was like, where's she going? I get confused in
30:02
what direction she wanted to go.
30:04
And maybe that's the point. Well, here's the problem I had with the whole subplot
30:08
of the former school friend, right?
30:10
He wasn't, he was just in love where he was a nice guy.
30:13
Actually, the only sort of nice guy out of the male characters here,
30:17
but he's basically portrayed as like a nice idiot.
30:20
Here's the problem. This subplot is not followed up.
30:23
She cancels a date and that's the last we hear of it
30:25
so what do I would have liked this let me finish
30:29
I would have liked for possibly yeah
30:33
I mean fair enough she cancelled a date that time but it's
30:36
not mentioned for the rest of the film I would have liked there to be some sort
30:39
of for Elizabeth to come to some sort of realisation by the end that you know
30:44
what it's okay to grow old gracefully and then go and meet that guy for a date
30:49
yes it's a bit cheesy and a bit corny and a bit suburbry but But you know what
30:53
I mean? But instead, I just wanted something.
30:56
Instead, we're not given anything. This subplot just stops dead at this point.
31:01
No, I think, after you said that, I get it now. Go ahead. I get why she decided.
31:08
I still think it's because she's torn. She's conflicted at this point.
31:11
She doesn't know what direction. Does she just want to accept what you just
31:14
said growing old and go out with an old friend she hasn't seen in a while? That's fine.
31:19
Or does she want to go as this glamour push that he said she also thinks that he might want to see?
31:25
So she's conflicted there. And because she doesn't go on that date and does
31:29
not meet him, everything's, everything crashes.
31:33
Well, I mean, fair enough, but there is still no follow-up to the subplot where you don't like.
31:39
You can't, no, you don't see what I'm saying. No, I just hear what you're saying,
31:42
but I would have liked them. You don't.
31:44
You don't get it. You're not going to get it now because once she closed the
31:49
door on him by not going to that date, she's dead.
31:53
This is where the class, this is where the fight sequence kicks in,
31:55
this is where everything goes.
31:56
She doesn't have time. You don't get that anymore because she didn't make that one call.
32:02
And that is her downfall. And that's where everything goes right to shit.
32:07
She gets more hideous because now Sue's getting this USA thing.
32:13
Okay, I mean, yeah, I can sort of accept that, but I personally would have liked
32:18
more of a follow-up, especially when it completely goes off the rails at the
32:22
end, you know, with the finale.
32:24
But yes, by the way, how did Sue, whenever she was born, out of Demi Moore's
32:30
back, know how to become a fully qualified professional joiner in terms of making
32:36
the wee hidey hole room in the bathroom?
32:38
Can clones do that without any training?
32:42
I don't know. That's why the gray area, they must be born with,
32:47
she must have... Skills as a joiner?
32:50
Yeah. Or, I don't know. I... I don't know.
32:55
Maybe she had it built. Yeah. Maybe someone came in and built it.
32:58
No, she doesn't. You see her doing it? I can't remember. Yeah.
33:02
The scene where, this is where you start, you had me for about an hour and 15, 45, 50 minutes.
33:09
She's eating all the chicken and shit. Yes. And then you have her working out
33:13
and a piece of chicken comes out of her belly. Oh, that's the dream sequence? What?
33:16
That's the dream sequence. Yes. That's the dream sequence because she had the
33:20
dream sequence of the sexual experience that Sue had, the biker. Yes.
33:25
Yeah. okay that's right okay i forgot that's right yeah yeah
33:30
i don't know but she's the host now the
33:33
new year's eve show yes you know 50 million viewers this
33:36
is this is the biggest thing you're ever gonna get you know what i did like now
33:39
she you know what i did like i did like the commentary here about
33:42
how young people can be particularly
33:46
nasty towards older people and we do
33:49
get this from sue at this point when she's interviewed about
33:52
the new year's eve show by the guy in the chat show
33:54
and he says well did you ever watch elizabeth sparkle's show
33:58
and she's very bitchy and nasty about it
34:00
and about elizabeth sparkle and that's a good commentary especially in
34:04
this age of social media about how nasty young
34:08
people can be towards older people it's yes
34:13
the video that that that liz watches when she comes out of yes her hiding place
34:20
again she's been manipulated again by a few extra days because she's getting
34:24
ready for this big show so she's taking a little more leeway with the extra days.
34:30
Yes, and she's shagging model guy with his arse hanging out.
34:33
And you got the legs and all there's a scene where Demi Moore has got to just
34:39
try to get up and bend her knee.
34:40
It's fucking all he feels for because she can't move the knee and she's just
34:45
going to push it to get it upright.
34:47
And actually, the look of her actually ends up looking like what reminded me
34:51
of the witches you know the Roald Dahl film you know the original version of
34:55
the film that's what it reminded me of Angelica Houston,
34:58
and then the end you got Gollum oh you have everything at the end you have society you have,
35:03
multiple references to Kubrick here there's Carrie there's I mean I mean obviously
35:09
Cronenberg there the elephant man I mean the list is endless.
35:14
And because and then Liz pretty much would have killed her at this point because
35:18
she just takes all of her back fluid yes and kind of stores it and she's out
35:22
of food now on Liz's side.
35:24
So when she finds out I'm bleeding, I got the show, he, he tells her on the
35:30
phone, you need to wake her up to rejuvenate her. Yeah.
35:33
So her, her juices are re-flown again.
35:36
You got to trust her to let, you know, and so she was fucked.
35:39
So she has to bring her back out, which I do like that.
35:42
And when she comes up, she looks like Gollum at this point. Yeah.
35:45
And now she knows she's going to have to kill her. Yeah.
35:48
Because of what she's done to her. But then she can't go through with it. Yeah.
35:52
Again, it's a good character. Because Jimmy Moore, like I said in the beginning,
35:56
was never a mean character. No.
35:57
And it's actually proven. She was just bullied. She was just bullied. Yeah.
36:01
Well, there's all the things going on as well. Like she's, you know,
36:04
tormented, you know, with the whole getting old, but also being replaced by
36:08
this younger version. You know?
36:11
This fight scene's brilliant. I love this fight scene. When she smashes her
36:15
head in the mirror. Brutally valid.
36:17
Fuck. Yeah. it is brutal you feel i have
36:20
felt so sorry for demie moore yeah i mean she'll be nominated
36:23
she's very good in this well it's like it's like watching and oh well it is
36:27
watching in the terms of this film it's watching an old woman receiving a extremely
36:32
severe brutal beating you know because at this point she is decrepit and she's
36:38
the witches she's antelica houston when she takes her wig off, you know?
36:42
And then she's pretty much dead at this point.
36:49
She is dead, but she comes back? Yeah, yeah.
36:53
But Sue has to now self-inject herself. Yes.
36:58
With the serum that should only be going into the host, which would be Liz. Yes.
37:05
So once she does that, she becomes- Side effects start happening. Yeah.
37:11
Yeah. And this is where the movie, the movie's completely lost me at this point. Yeah. Yeah.
37:16
Completely lost me. It was just. It's a mess. Literally. Quite literally a mess. Yeah.
37:21
20 minutes, 20 minutes of this. Stupidity. Of her.
37:26
Yeah. And she's putting on the dress and walking the street.
37:30
Who, come on. And then going on, going onto stage.
37:33
And nobody's seeing her yet. Are you kidding me? Also, also on a family late
37:37
night New Year's Eve show, They have topless dancers? I mean, what?
37:41
It's just, it's a mess, quite literally.
37:46
It just falls flat. I mean, the first hour and 50 minutes into this,
37:51
you really had something, even with its flaws and the what-if scenarios.
37:57
But now you're gone to this...
38:00
It feels like the director and writer didn't know how to end the film,
38:06
so just decided to resolve the story, so just decided to go all out with all
38:11
this nonsense, which had no point.
38:13
Don't get me wrong, I love my gore and my horror, you know with body horror
38:17
and stuff I have no problem at all with that but there has to be a point to
38:20
it yeah you have to have a point but,
38:23
especially where this film was quite subtle,
38:27
so like I mentioned in the beginning of David Lynch stuff it could be batshit
38:31
crazy but it could be disturbing because there's a serious tone and a reality
38:36
kind of to it and that's what they were doing here I'll go with the spine opening
38:41
up and the woman flying out of her I'll go with it,
38:44
you still kind of have me you can kind of see this playing out you're just going
38:48
with it but once you turn it into a complete.
38:52
Horror fantasy it just am I watching a Brian Yunza society am I in bad taste
38:59
now with Peter Jackson where is this coming from they could have ended it,
39:05
with those two you know what did this better believe it or not a movie called
39:09
Death Becomes Her same kind of concept,
39:13
Merle Streep And Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn. Yeah.
39:17
And they brutally beat the shit out of each other so much. They're all fake
39:21
and they're all falling apart from the spray paint and all.
39:25
That was funny, but they could have almost done that. And you had that when
39:28
they were fighting at the end.
39:30
You could have ended this film there. The problem is. They're both bloodied
39:33
and beaten and dead on the bathroom floor.
39:36
The problem. That's where this film should have ended. The problem with all
39:39
of the emotional investment that you have with, obviously, by a long stretch
39:46
with Demi Moore's Elizabeth character,
39:49
is that all just goes to shit once you reach this ending where it's a complete
39:54
and utter cartoon world.
39:55
And it's just it feels like this section of the film this final section of the
40:01
film feels like it has been made by a clueless 16 year old boy trying to be
40:07
edgy and impress his mates.
40:10
Yeah it's just it's sad it's it's
40:14
it's the movie downfall yeah now a lot of people are still
40:16
praising and stuff like that that i can't give the movie a
40:19
pass just because of that yeah it was at that phase where i was i'm gonna get
40:22
this i'm gonna buy this this is cool i'm gonna watch all the extras now it's
40:25
just like nah it's the more you watch it i've only watched it twice but even
40:28
on the second viewing the more its flaws start to stand out because you've got
40:33
over as i said earlier you've got over the shock value of all the nudity and
40:36
gore and stuff and and so what so you're focusing much more on the story and the plot and yeah,
40:44
it does fall apart my mum,
40:47
thought this was complete and utter nonsense and she knows her horror well I
40:52
think that's the product that's it right there, you went from a drama,
40:55
sci-fi kind of fantasy horror into a comedy horror and it just didn't fit totally
41:02
all over the place whenever you put that serious and very well done and very
41:08
well performed I'm going to have to say by both Moore and Qualley,
41:11
but once they exit the film.
41:14
The film's plot exits as well.
41:18
Yeah. And the emotional core. That's unfortunate.
41:21
But guys, give it a shot. I mean, go check it out. If you like Conan Burke stuff,
41:26
you might enjoy it. A lot of people are getting more out of it than what we saw at the end there.
41:29
But, you know, give us a shout at Citizen Frame underscore podcast on Instagram
41:34
or on Facebook at Citizen Frame there.
41:37
And give us your thoughts. If you do see it, whether you felt that the film
41:41
did lose, did lose the plot at the last 20, 20 minutes, last 20 minutes.
41:47
And it just becomes a stupid, almost, almost, almost like a,
41:52
a satire of itself. Yeah.
41:54
And, and also a fan film with all these images over the top images.
42:00
There's even the Phantom of the Opera. There's, I mean, you name it,
42:04
the Elephant Man, you know, the lots in there. It's just freaks Directionless.
42:11
Way to go. We actually agree on the film. Wow.
42:15
It's a miracle. And here, you know what I mean, and you know,
42:18
this is a bit of a running theme.
42:19
Last week we were talking about Tom Atkins, big arse. Now this week we're talking
42:24
about Demi and Margaret's.
42:27
Well, they don't have big arses. No, but Tom Atkins did.
42:31
I know, but you said big arse. I said Tom Atkins, big arse.
42:35
I know, but you kind of went where they both had big arse. Wow.
42:39
Wow, Timmy and Margot, are you listening to this? I didn't say that. They don't.
42:44
Potomac and Stones. So yeah, there's a thing going on here.
42:47
All right, guys, we're going to wrap this one up. We got the two Beetlejuices coming up next.
42:51
Then we got Smile 2 and of course our Pete Atkins Whistmaster.
42:56
So then we got Christmas Month. Woo! Got to keep it going.
43:00
And those titles have been picked and Trevor requested it again.
43:05
I said, Trevor, are you sure?
43:07
He said, I love the Hallmark. movies.
43:10
So we're going to have to dive into one of those. Oh, dear.
43:14
Oh, no. Trevor wanted. I bet you, I bet you know who's the queen of the Hallmark films?
43:19
Andy McDowell. So, yeah. She's not in them. She's not in them.
43:23
She's been in a period. She's kind of retired.
43:25
I think she's been in a period. She's kind of retired. Well.
43:28
Sex, Lies and Videotape was a good movie she did. I remember it at the time.
43:32
I just don't think you've seen a lot of her stuff to appreciate her.
43:35
She's too smiley and too she's not an actress by 3H as a model?
43:40
I don't know. What do I know? Yeah, what do you know? Yeah.
43:44
It's raining. I didn't notice. Because Dimi and Margaret have big asses.
43:48
They don't have big asses. They look great, both of them.
43:51
And there is a big generational difference there, but yeah.
43:56
Wow. We're going to wrap this one up. And guys, take care of yourselves. Chat soon.
44:09
Thank you.