Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #283 Bedtime Blues

Transcript

#283 Bedtime Blues · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Now, the last thing they want to do is feel little.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: And when you've got to go to bed at seven
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: o'clock and all your friends are staying up until eight,
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: you kind of feel pretty little, right.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: And now here's the scars of our show, My mum
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: and dad Good.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: It's doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy Families dot
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: com dot you. I'm here with Kylie, my wife and
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: mum to our six baby girls. Well they're not babies,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: but they're always they're always going to be our babies. Kylie,
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  Speaker 3: A couple of things have happened that we need to
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: talk about. First, one that just a quick announcement. We've
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: got an email via podcasts at happy Families dot com
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: dot you. Somebody's been listening closely to our conversations lately
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: and noticing that I've had.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: An interesting run of luck.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Corey sent through an email podcast at happy Families dot
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: com dot you and said, been listening to your parenting
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: tips and here's what I've learned. Number one, don't go
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: out late, it makes you a bad parent. Number two,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: don't let the kids run the bath unsupervised.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: For those who didn't.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Catch our Noah's Ark edition, just go back a couple
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: of fridays and you know what that's all about. And
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: number three, between your bath and your roof, I hope
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: that you're never involved in any building related TV shows.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Stay away from anything, really, is what Corey's saying. Corey,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: thanks for looking out for me. I really appreciate you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, guys, if someone wants to offer me a
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: building related TV show, I think I'd do it just
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: so I could learn how to be safe. But I
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: guess that's a story for another day. We've got a
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: lot to talk about today.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Hunt.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we were actually really slack last week.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: We forgot to mention that book club has started again.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: So the background of this is that if you are
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: a happy Famil's member, you get access to book club
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: once a term. We go through a book about parenting.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: At the moment, we're working through our ones and we're
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: up to my fifth of six books. We're going through
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: ten things every parent needs to know, and that's every
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Wednesday for four weeks.
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  Speaker 1: You did week one last week.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think that this has completely come about because
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I haven't actually read your books.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a confact.
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  Speaker 2: And I think I think the reason you put me
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: in charge is because it's just so you can make
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: sure that I actually know what you're talking about.
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  Speaker 3: You're going to become a parenting expert by the end
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  Speaker 3: of this. By the way, it's not too late. If
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: you are a Happy Family's member and you missed last week,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: you can jump on tomorrow night.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: For week two.
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  Speaker 3: Or you've got to do is start to read along
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  Speaker 3: with ten things every parent needs to know. You can
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: grab it online at a Happy Family store and if
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: you don't have a copy, grab it from the library.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I'll buy one and it'll arrive.
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  Speaker 3: You don't have to have read it to be part
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  Speaker 3: of book club, right, I mean, just just show up.
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  Speaker 2: No, We've had a couple of people show up and
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  Speaker 2: they just were able to join in the conversation and
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  Speaker 2: glean from the things that other people had learned.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And the other thing to bear in mind as well
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  Speaker 3: is that if you're not a Happy Family's member, but
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: you're like this out of book club and all the
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: other stuff that Happy Families members get, all you've got
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: to do is jump onto Happy Faies dot Com. Dot
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: are you become a member anyway? That's the background of
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: book Club tomorrow night, Week two. Last week, Week one, we.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Talked a whole heap about mattering and belonging and being
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: understood and they were really really awesome conversation that we
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: had last week. And this week we're going to be
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: looking at something better than punishment and getting along with others.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Sibling rivalry, I think is going to come into play
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit there.
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  Speaker 1: So can I ask a question about last week?
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  Speaker 3: And this is not free scripted, I'm putting you on
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  Speaker 3: the spot here, but you said you had some really
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  Speaker 3: nice conversations about the importance of mattering and belonging. What
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: was something that you heard, something that somebody contributed in
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  Speaker 3: book club that really stood out to you in terms
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  Speaker 3: of how they help their kids to feel like they
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  Speaker 3: matter and they belong.
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  Speaker 2: A couple of the parents have acknowledged they live in
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  Speaker 2: Melbourne and they've gone back down into lockdown.
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  Speaker 3: Shout out to everyone in Melbourne Lockdown version four.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really big deal and this is
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: really really hard on families. And so what they've noticed
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  Speaker 2: is that this time round, the kids are tired before
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  Speaker 2: they've even started they're like, we know what this is about,
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  Speaker 2: and we don't want to be here. Yeah, And so
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  Speaker 2: you know, they're stuck in a small, confined space, mums
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  Speaker 2: trying to work and the kids are trying to do
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  Speaker 2: online learning, and it's just it's not working too well
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  Speaker 2: this time round. And so she kind of just shouted
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: out and she said, guys, I need help, because she said,
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  Speaker 2: I want to be responsive to my children, but I'm
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  Speaker 2: in the middle of work, you know, I'm on a
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  Speaker 2: zoom meeting or doing other important things, and I can't
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  Speaker 2: stop every time. And what I loved was how this
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  Speaker 2: little community of book club moms came together and said,
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  Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that we've done is
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  Speaker 2: when the kids come in and I can't talk to them,
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  Speaker 2: I just touched them. I squeeze their hand to acknowledge
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  Speaker 2: that I hear them, that I'm aware, but I can't
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  Speaker 2: do it right now. Another mum suggested that she's told
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  Speaker 2: her little kids to draw a picture of what they
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  Speaker 2: want to talk about so that it keeps fresh in
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  Speaker 2: their mind, and then as soon as she's able to
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  Speaker 2: get off that she takes the time to talk through
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  Speaker 2: the picture with them and they can discuss what they
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  Speaker 2: need to discuss. And I just I loved, I just
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  Speaker 2: I loved that everybody had, you know, ideas and things
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  Speaker 2: that had worked for them that could help this mum out.
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  Speaker 3: And you don't have to be in a Victoria wide
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  Speaker 3: lockdown to get bemittleized.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I really really appreciated everybody's involvement.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Great stuff.
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  Speaker 3: So today we're going to talk about something that probably
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: relates a bit to what you talked about last week
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  Speaker 3: and a bit to what you're talking about tomorrow night
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: with book club. And that is a question that came
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: through via podcasts at Happy Families dot com dot IU.
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  Speaker 3: This one came from Brook and I'll read it because
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  Speaker 3: I know you've got a lot of ideas about it.
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  Speaker 3: Brook has said, ten year olds, what time do they
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  Speaker 3: go to bed in your home? She's just like, can
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  Speaker 3: you tell me, am I like everyone else or are
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  Speaker 3: my kids a bit weird? My son goes to bed
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  Speaker 3: at seven pm and is allowed to read until seven
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  Speaker 3: point thirty. He hears from his friends that they go
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  Speaker 3: to bed at eight pm or later, and he wants
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  Speaker 3: the same. He needs to be up at six ten
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  Speaker 3: am every day because school starts seven forty five and
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  Speaker 3: where we are, he doesn't ever bounce out of bed.
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  Speaker 1: Grateful to hear from others.
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  Speaker 3: I'm time between giving him a later bedtime and not
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  Speaker 3: wanting to deal with the extra tiredness just because his
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  Speaker 3: friends stay up.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, the ten ager. We had a conversation with Madonna
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  Speaker 2: King a little while ago about her book and this
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  Speaker 2: whole that ten is the new teenager.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a.
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  Speaker 2: Really tricky stage because they're still little people, but they're
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  Speaker 2: not little people anymore. But they're not big people yet
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  Speaker 2: and they want to be. They're just desperate, and then
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  Speaker 2: they're in this limbo space. It's such a hard age.
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  Speaker 2: It's a hard age to dress them. It's a hard
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  Speaker 2: age to navigate because they just want more autonomy, more independence,
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  Speaker 2: more responsibility, and they think that they're ready for it.
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  Speaker 3: And the last thing they want to do is feel little.
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  Speaker 3: And when you've got to go to bed at seven
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  Speaker 3: o'clock and all your friends are staying up until eight,
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  Speaker 3: you kind of feel pretty little, right. Yeah, So let's
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: have a conversation about how we can help Brook and
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  Speaker 3: what to do about getting bedtime right for our kids,
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  Speaker 3: regardless of whether they're two or ten.
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  Speaker 1: Or even eighteen. We'll do that right after the break.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: of discipline. There's a webinar to help parents set limits
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: with love, compassion and humanity. Find no Happy Families dot
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: com dot au slash shop.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast. The podcast for the time
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  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we
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  Speaker 2: are hopefully going to answer Brooks question.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about bedtime and how to get the kids
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  Speaker 3: to bed on time? And what on time actually is
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  Speaker 3: seven o'clock at night for a seven thirty lights out
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  Speaker 3: for a ten year old seem reasonable to you?
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  Speaker 1: What do you reckon?
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  Speaker 3: Should we actually give our opinion on this one or
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  Speaker 3: should we just talk about bedtime principles?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to give an opinion. I think
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  Speaker 2: that every household has their own stand on it. But
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  Speaker 2: one of the things that stood out from book club
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  Speaker 2: last week was a little quote, just a tiny little
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  Speaker 2: quote that you have tucked in knights Lely in one
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  Speaker 2: of the chapters, and it's by doctor Stephen ourcovey, and
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  Speaker 2: he said, the greatest human need is to be understood.
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  Speaker 2: I love that, and I think that at the heart
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  Speaker 2: of everything that Brook's stealing with right now is a
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  Speaker 2: little ten year old who's not so little anymore, doesn't
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  Speaker 2: want to be considered little, who just needs to be understood.
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  Speaker 3: So essentially, when it comes to negotiating on nabigating bedtime
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: with kids, it's important that we as parents recognize that
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  Speaker 3: ultimately is up to us about what time the kids
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  Speaker 3: go to bed, but we need to kind of understand
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  Speaker 3: where they're coming from.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so would the three year's work here?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that they would explore what's going on
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  Speaker 3: in their world? Why does it matter to you what
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: time you go to bed, Why do you want to
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: stay up?
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  Speaker 1: What are all of your friends.
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  Speaker 3: Doing, What's the amazing stuff that's happening between seven thirty
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: and eight pm that all of your friends are getting
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: to do that you're not getting to do, Like, what's
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: really going to be the difference?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And kind of explore their.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: World, Explain what you expect and what your concerns are,
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  Speaker 3: Try and do it briefly and then empower them say okay,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: so I get what's going on for you, but you
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: also know what I expect. How are we going to
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: figure this out together? And a ten year old's big
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: enough to work this out with you.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So we've obviously had to negotiate this particular dynamic in
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: our house six times, no more than six, because it's
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: not just once child year. It's like, Okay, I need
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: an extra fifteen minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: bigger person now and I should be allowed to. But
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I think that one of the things that has really
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: helped in our discussions is really kind of nutting out
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: the science of sleep. What does your body actually need
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: so that you can function and be a healthy human being.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: So when we have a look at what sleep researchers
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: have discovered for our children who are aged somewhere in
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: those preschool years, late toddler early preschool years, they probably
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: need about twelve hours of sleep a night.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I think I might still be a preschool.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: That's who decided that I only need eight hours.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: They did about twelve hours. Once they get into primary school,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: those lower primary school years, it probably drops to about
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: eleven and months they get into the higher primary school years,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: probably something closer to ten. Once they're in high school,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: we're probably looking at around about nine and a half hours,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: and by the time they get to their late teens
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: something about nine, and adults on average need about eight.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Thing is these average, right, So that doesn't necessarily help
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: every single parent because not every child is average. We
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: have one daughter who she just doesn't go to sleep.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: She's only fourteen. She's not tired until about ten o'clock,
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  Speaker 3: and we really want her to go to bed earlier.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: But she wakes up every morning on time, and most
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: of the time she's actually not grumpy. She gets along
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: really well with everyone and does it you.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Just don't talk to her.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I talk to her just like it goes through
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the wake up time, wake up slowly. Yes, so we've.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Really got to explore what's going on in their world. Yes,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: the science matters. But I know some adults who desperately
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: need nine hours a night, and I know some who
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: can get by on about seven a night. Everybody's different.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: For me, I really like my eight hours.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that the science gives us a good
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: kind of a place to start, and so for me,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: when I look at the fact that there's a very
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: early start for this particular child, it might be good
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: kind of pacing backwards and going, Okay, so if you
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: need to get up at six am every morning because
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: we've got to get out the door by six forty five,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: what time would you need to go to bed.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Let's count back the ten hours.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that you've had your ten hours. Okay, So
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: it would seem that to get ten or eleven hours,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: we're going to need to go to bed between somewhere
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: between seven and eight o'clock at night. Right now, we're
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: going to bed at seven for a seven thirty lights out.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: But he's asking for an extension on that, So why
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: not do an experiment?
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, according to the science, ten hours is probably about
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: right for a child that age.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Let's give it a go. Let's see what Let's.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Try it for a week, and let's come back next
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: week and talk about what we noticed. Were you grumpia,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: did you have a hard time getting through school? How
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: did you feel when you woke up? All of these
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: kinds of questions that explore and if you can have
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the conversation at the front to end of it and
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: help them to feel like they're a part, they're a
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: collaborator in the process, they actually have some autonomy in
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: this decision. Then hopefully at the other end they will
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: have the ability to be introspective and see the things
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: that have taken place.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: You're pretty good at it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: There's a couple of other things that I would add
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: that may be useful. The first one is that it's
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: really important that our children aren't trying to be sneaky,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Like it's great that we've got a ten year old
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: here who's having the conversation rather than pretending to be
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: asleep and then sneaking the torch under the covers and
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: reading until eleven o'clock at night, or sneaking out into
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the lounge room.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So that they can gorge on all of the not
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that we've.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Had any experience with these at all, on all of
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the ice cream that we've bought that the kids aren't
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: supposed to be eating.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: It's really nice that that's happening. I want to point
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: to some science as well. Doesn't happen so much with
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: our little kids, but as they get bigger and move
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: into those later tween and teen years, which is what
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: we're talking about with this particular child of Brooks. The
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: body produces melatonin, which is at least in part our
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: sleep hormone. It's the thing that makes you start to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: not off. That hormone doesn't really start to be produced
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: until about an hour, maybe even as much as two
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: hours later once kids get into the teen years, so
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: we should expect that from about the age of ten
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: or twelve, they are going to start pushing their bedtime
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: back naturally because they're just not tired. The other thing
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: to remember is with children and adolescents, and particularly teenagers,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: the melatonin production doesn't stop overnight. It just keeps on
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: going and going and going, whereas with us as adults,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: it actually slows down during the night and ultimately ceases.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: So we wake up and we're ready to go. They
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: wake up and they're groggy because their body is still
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: producing melatone and while they're sleeping. So that can sort
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: of explain why our fourteen year old and maybe this
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: ten year old wake up a little bit grumpy in
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: the morning because their body keeps producing that sleep hormone
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: while they're out to it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: So is there any other science that might help brook
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: out at the moment.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: So everyone knows about sleep hygiene, that is, kids should
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: be going to bed in a room that's appropriately dark
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: and appropriately warm or cool, and it needs to be
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: the right temperature and appropriately quiet. That's all the really
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: important sleep hygiene stuff. But one other really cool science fact.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Over the last few years, scientists have discovered that when
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: it comes to and go to bed, if we can
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: keep their bedtime consistent within about thirty minutes of their bedtime,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: they get better quality sleep and they feel more rested.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: So if bedtime is let's say eight pm, they need
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: to be going to bed between seven and forty five
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and eight fifteen every single night. You don't want too
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: much variation in bedtimes. That's what actually messes the kids
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: up and reduces their well being.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the great things that Brook
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: is doing is she's allowing him to have this reading time. Yeah,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: really good way to wind.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Down, especially so long as it's not on an iPad.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: We want to use real books, not screens right before bed.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: So this is a really great thing that she's doing.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And so maybe instead of him going to bed at
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: seven o'clock, he could possibly go to bed at seven fifteen,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: and he can read for a little bit longer than
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: he would normally read for and you actually might see
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: that he'll start to fall asleep on his own without
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you know, without even trying.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: We hope Brook that this has been helpful for you
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: and every other parent who's battling bedtimes with kids who
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: are older than toddlers, because that's a totally different conversation.
• 15:00
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• 15:03
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• 15:06
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• 15:13
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• 15:17
  Speaker 3: really appreciate the work Justin Ruland from Bridge Media and
• 15:19
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• 15:22
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• 15:24
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• 15:28
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• 15:31
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• 15:34
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