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Assassin in Luigi Mangione Thwarts Justice, Fan Girls Storm Courthouse · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Cold blooded assassin Luigi Mangioni somehow has thwarted justice. I mean,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: he guns down a dad, a husband, and plain sight
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: on the sidewalk comes up behind him. I'm gonna play
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the video for you, comes up behind him with a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: ghost gun, shoots him dead on the sidewalk, and somehow
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: he has thwarted justice. This as fangirls storm the courthouse.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Good evening, Imancy Greace, this is crime Stories. I want
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. The so called
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: health care assassin, he claims I was quote emotional, emotional
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: when he gunned down Brian Thompson, a married father.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Mangioni did not use United Healthcare. His family did not
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: use United Healthcare.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: This is still a valid defense that he can use
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: moving forward.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I'm emotional just talking about him being emotional.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: His children are better off without him. They need to
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: learn about me like they're dad and enjoyed the blood
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: money head.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: Husbands Brian Thompson.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I don't give him mind to millions.
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: Of America liked it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Kes a smile full for more deaths than Osama bin Laden,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: and I remember Americans celebrating when Osama bin Laden was killed.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: It's not like we don't understand heroic violence or like.
• 1:42
  Speaker 7: When violence still good.
• 1:44
  Speaker 8: I'm not saying, you know, we should all take up arms,
• 1:47
  Speaker 8: but when your democracy is eroded and you know your
• 1:49
  Speaker 8: auction like or what are we meant to do?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Who are they those ghules? That from Maul Crane Newman
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: on X blood sucking Ghuel. Let's think about who she's
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: talking about. And while I'm talking about the victim in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: this case, I'd like to see control room if you
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: can conjure it up. The video of Luigi Mangioni approaching
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: an unarmed man and shooting him from behind. There he
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: goes to work and here comes Mangioni. Do not show
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the moment of his death. There's a guy going to work,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: minding his own business, got a wife and two boys,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and he shot dead on the sidewalk. And these fangirls
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: going in and out of the courthouse, all dressed up
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: on their stilettoes, all the hair and makeup so they
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: can get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni and maybe he
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: can see them. And what be a prison pen pal woman?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Brian Thompson just one moment joining me
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: an all star panel but first to Dave Mac, Crime
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter, Dave Can, I just remind you that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson came from a very close knit, working class
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: family like your family and my family, Dave Mac. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: that's why I'm addressing this to you. His dad operated
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a grain elevator for a living, a grain, you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: like going up and down in a silo or a factory,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: that grain elevator. That's what he did, day in, day out,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: so he could send Thompson and the siblings to college.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Wait for it. He comes from a small farming community
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: in Jewell, Iowa. His mother a beautician. He in this
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: little rural town, was high school valedictorian, the class president,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the homecoming king. He played basketball and golf and catch this,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac. He played the trombone in the band. He
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: goes on to college. He worked seveneen years, according to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: my math, climbing up the ladder at United Healthcare. Seveneen
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: years and he becomes this small town boy, the CEO
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: of United health Care. Dave Mac gunned down in cold
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: blood by a brat. What can you tell me about
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Luigi Mangione, Dave Mac.
• 5:08
  Speaker 9: Luigi Mangoni grew up in privilege, private schools, money. He
• 5:17
  Speaker 9: grew up with the exact opposite of what Brian ton.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Whoa wait, look at your monitor. There he is in
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: his Hawaiian paradise. He ain't working like you and me,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Dave mac He's on the beach, living rent free, his
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: parents paying all the bills. They're multimillionaires on a high
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: rise in Hawaii, seething complaining about the healthcare industry. Okay,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: now what were you saying. I know he went to
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: what was the prep school he attended, then he went
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: on to an Ivy League University of Pennsylvania. He was at
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: an elite Oh it was the Gilman School. Go ahead
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: day Max.
• 6:01
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 6:01
  Speaker 9: He graduated in twenty sixteen and he was the valedictorian
• 6:05
  Speaker 9: of his class at the Guildman School. You know, Brian
• 6:08
  Speaker 9: Thompson valedictorian of his high school, working class high school.
• 6:12
  Speaker 11: You know.
• 6:12
  Speaker 9: And their polar opposites in what they came into their
• 6:17
  Speaker 9: adulthood with. Whereas Brian Thompson a complete overachiever, Luis jium
• 6:22
  Speaker 9: Mangoni a complete underachiever. You talk about a person raised
• 6:28
  Speaker 9: with all of the advantages, that's Louis ju Mangoni, but
• 6:33
  Speaker 9: Nancy MANGIONI when I compared the two of them, the
• 6:39
  Speaker 9: thought that Mangione could take out a man like Brian
• 6:44
  Speaker 9: Thompson with such disdainful life, you know that he didn't
• 6:48
  Speaker 9: care that. Here's you mentioned. Thompson is a he's brought
• 6:52
  Speaker 9: himself up, he's married, he's got kids, put him in school,
• 6:55
  Speaker 9: and you know, in a very short period of time,
• 6:57
  Speaker 9: the guy became the CEO of United Healthcare through hard work.
• 7:02
  Speaker 9: Luigi Mangoni, in the meantime, he isn't even working when
• 7:06
  Speaker 9: it comes right down to it, because he has back pain.
• 7:09
  Speaker 9: You showed the pictures in Hawaii. Well, every picture you
• 7:12
  Speaker 9: see at Luigi Mangoni, he is not working hard. He's relaxing,
• 7:17
  Speaker 9: he's posing for pictures. He's just doing whatever he wants
• 7:21
  Speaker 9: to do, funded by his parents, by his lifestyle. And
• 7:26
  Speaker 9: so that disappearance from normal life that Luigi Mangoni went into.
• 7:32
  Speaker 9: He lived at the Surf Break in Honolulu, and I
• 7:35
  Speaker 9: remember that co living work community. It's like Luigi Mangoni
• 7:41
  Speaker 9: is the opposite of the hard working Brian Thompson.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Guys, we were showing you shots right now the high
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: rise that Dave Matt is talking about.
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: The victim was in New York City to speak at
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying in
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: wait for several minutes, and as the victim was walking
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind and
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once in
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: the back and at least once in the right calf.
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: for his intended target.
• 8:17
  Speaker 10: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
• 8:20
  Speaker 10: Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one
• 8:22
  Speaker 10: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
• 8:25
  Speaker 10: Hotel located at thirteen thirty five Avenue of the Americas.
• 8:28
  Speaker 10: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
• 8:31
  Speaker 10: fourth Street. At six forty eight am, officers arrive and
• 8:35
  Speaker 10: find the victim, Brian R. Thompson, a fifty year old male,
• 8:38
  Speaker 10: on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton, with gunshot
• 8:41
  Speaker 10: wounds to his back and leg.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: They're talking about the husband, the dad, Brian Thompson, and
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the search for Luigi Maggioni and what a search it was.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: He was wildly enough to plan out the murder very well,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and he just admitted to it under both in court.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Yet the mangionist does, as they call themselves, insist he
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: was quote framed. He just admitted he did it. To
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: David Sarney, joining us from an NYPD detective twenty seven
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: years at NYPD. He knows this area like the back
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: of his hand. Professor John Jay College Criminal Justice, Sarney
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: explain the audacious crime, the brazen nature of coming up.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Just I walk that same path every morning, going back
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and forth to court TV and then over to hl
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: N right there with women, children, commuters all going by.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: He didn't care, shot him down like a dog on
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: the sidewalk, and now tonight he's thwarting a murder.
• 9:52
  Speaker 12: Charge as an individual who waited for his prey when
• 9:57
  Speaker 12: he saw he was there earlier, waited to see him
• 10:00
  Speaker 12: once he once the perpetrator saw the victim, shot him
• 10:03
  Speaker 12: cold blooded, and his planning for the murder was better
• 10:09
  Speaker 12: than his planning I think for escape.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Describe this area for me, Sarny.
• 10:13
  Speaker 12: You're talking about midtown Manhattan. You're talking about the hotel there.
• 10:16
  Speaker 12: I go that area all around there. You told about
• 10:19
  Speaker 12: fifty seven to fifty fourth Street. He got off the
• 10:21
  Speaker 12: train on the f train. He then proceeded to go southbound.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Oh say wait, Sorny, look at your monitor. Look at
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: your monitor. He kept his face covered so much, but
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: he just had to lower his face mask to flirt
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: with the hotel reception clerk and bam, we got his face.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I just had to draw your attention to this. Go ahead, Sarny.
• 10:43
  Speaker 12: Well, you're talking about people plan things, they always drop it.
• 10:46
  Speaker 12: And this is the benefit of what police do. We
• 10:48
  Speaker 12: find the mistakes that these individuals make. And that's what happened.
• 10:52
  Speaker 12: The painstaking work with the detectives on this case in
• 10:54
  Speaker 12: Midtown North, Manhattan South Homicide and detectives throughout the city
• 10:58
  Speaker 12: were able to piece together other uh the assassination and
• 11:04
  Speaker 12: his flight from that location. The difficulty was from there
• 11:08
  Speaker 12: is trying to locate him at at a residential in
• 11:11
  Speaker 12: an area because we didn't know where he fled to.
• 11:13
  Speaker 12: They were going to go to the buses, and then
• 11:15
  Speaker 12: fortunately you had a bystander with that photo that we
• 11:19
  Speaker 12: have that was put out there by the police and
• 11:21
  Speaker 12: by the media, had someone identify him at that McDonald's
• 11:25
  Speaker 12: in Altoona.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: That's right, as a matter of fact, speaking of the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: ID at McDonald's. Listen, it's sir, I do what.
• 11:41
  Speaker 8: My fo call? Yeah, appreciate it, thank you?
• 11:46
  Speaker 13: Okay, what's your name?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: Mark?
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Mark?
• 11:52
  Speaker 8: Mark?
• 11:52
  Speaker 11: What right?
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: Sorry?
• 11:54
  Speaker 13: Someone called I thought you were suspicious?
• 11:57
  Speaker 8: Oh I'm sorry?
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: Did figure me on you?
• 12:00
  Speaker 14: Is I thought much by someone?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Those aren't police confronting Luigi Mangioni, who lies about who
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he is at a McDonald's in Altoona. That's what Sarney
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: was talking about, straight out to Lauren Conlin, joining US
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter LA magazine. She is the co star of
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Pop Crime TV. You can find her at Lauren Conlin. Lauren,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. How this is just
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: killing me? Is he thwarting justice on a murder to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: charge in New York State court?
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Well, Nancy Sarney said it, And let's not forget that
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: it was actually murder one as it relates to terrorism
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: back in September before his attorneys that was dropped. Yeah,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: that was dropped.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Murder in New York, trot in New York courts, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: they're this close to getting the murder charge thrown out.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: He has not pled guilty to murder. He played guilty
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and a surprise move in federal court to stalking related
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: to death to stalking interstate. He has never been charged
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: with the murder. Karen Stark is joining me from this jurisdiction,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: famed forensic psychologist, TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: maybe my IFB isn't working correctly, but I'm pretty sure
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: this is your home. Your home. You live up the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: street from where a guy's shot down in cold blood
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: on the sidewalk.
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: It's hard to understand. It has to be good lawyer,
• 13:55
  Speaker 7: and you know that more than I would, Nancy. But
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: here's this guy. He comes with so charming and smart
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: and intelligent, and he actually would had video of him
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: using that gun, and yet somehow his defense team is
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: able to conjure upt that he used a false identification
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: and that was the only thing that was going on
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: with him. I just find that inconceivable that they could
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: get away with doing that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 8: Claire, No one, what if the address of your emergency
• 14:29
  Speaker 8: it's not really an emergency. I'm a manager at Playing
• 14:32
  Speaker 8: Bird McDonald's out here in the boulevard, okay, and I
• 14:36
  Speaker 8: have the customer here that some other customers were suspicious
• 14:40
  Speaker 8: of that. He looked like the CEO shooter Comp York. Okay,
• 14:45
  Speaker 8: So they're just really upset and they're like coming to me,
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: and I was like, well, I can't approach him, you know, no,
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: of course not.
• 14:52
  Speaker 14: I think millions of people see some of themselves and Mangioni,
• 14:58
  Speaker 14: and that's why they love him so much.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Jurors, they're gonna hear the chance. The questions about the
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: insurance industry has raised the stakes in a way I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: think we haven't seen in.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: A long time. That's simply not true. If you hate
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the insurance industry, then don't have insurance or complain about it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Protest about it, Address your congress people, your senators and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: representatives about it, do something, form an action group, come
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: up with an alternative. But gunning someone down in cold
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: blood that's the way to complain about how you don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: like insurance. That's from our friends at Dateline. I'm not
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: buying into that. America identifies with Luigi Mangioni. Lauren Conlin.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true that when his David Thompson's widow was
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: crying on the front row in court during his federal
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: guilty play, which I think was not worth the hill
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: of beans. He did not plead to murder. She leaves
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the courthouse to all the ghouls, yelling, America loves Luigi.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: America loves Luigi. No, America does not love Luigi. Let's
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: see all the women entering the courtroom really quickly. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: you better hide your face. Woman, Yeah, that's right, hide, hide, hide,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: because you don't want the world to know that you're
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: sucking up to a violent felon. That's some strange mcnights.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: TikTok Oh wow, look at them. They're gorgeous. They're probably smart,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: some of them smart enough to hide their faces. Gotcha, okay?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Lauren Colin back to widow walking out of courthouse to
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: throngs yelling America loves me.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Yes so thankfully. At forty Foley Square, the Federal Courthouse,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: there are two entrances. Although you know it's not huge,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: you can still hear the fans in the front. But
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: they did sneak Thompson's family kind of out out by
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the side. But that didn't stop fans, I guess, from
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: relentlessly posting on social media. One of the three quote
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: mangi anisas she actually went as far as to post
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: other people's trashing of Brian Thompson, almost feeling proud of it.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And it's just it's so tragic, I mean, it's it's
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: just so sad to see that humanity has fallen this
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: far that, you know, we celebrate murderers and we celebrate
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: deaths like this, assassinations.
• 17:48
  Speaker 11: I don't know how we know what we can afford.
• 17:50
  Speaker 11: But can I get a soap and some towels?
• 17:52
  Speaker 13: I guess yeah.
• 17:53
  Speaker 14: Let's just check your balance, MANGIONI. It looks like it
• 17:56
  Speaker 14: is four hundred thousand dollars.
• 18:05
  Speaker 11: Wait, what what are you talking about?
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Where's that coming from? It looks like a couple of
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: places MILFs for Healthcare Reform.
• 18:18
  Speaker 14: Bottoms United for Luigi Last Lindsay Graham.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: That is Luigi the musical off Instagram to Randolph Rice
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: joining US high profile defense lawyer, civil lawyer at Rice law,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor. I don't get it. I don't get the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: swell of support from ANGIONI. You know what, I'm not
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: a shrink, and I don't think you are either. So
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: let's talk about what we do know. You and I Rice,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and that is the law I know the law. When
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I can't figure anything else in this world out, I
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: figure out the law. I consider it to be my
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: sword and my shield. Let's talk about what is happening
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: right now. You know what to hay with all the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: man Gionistas to hay with a debacle in federal court.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And I'd like to point out that didn't have anything
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: to do with the federal prosecutors, as much as everybody
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: wants to scream at them. Of course, they managed to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: somehow lose the charges connected to what would make an
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: aggravating death penalty case. Those charges were the fire arm charges.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I want to go to deathcom four on the law.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: But the firearm charges against him, he had a ghost
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gun with no serial number on it, and he had
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a cat. He had a can a silencer in common parlance,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: he created a ghost gun, took hundreds of hours to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: do it out of three d printing no serial number
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: to controvert justice. But the federal court ruled that for
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the DP in federal court, the underlying gun charge had
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: to be related to a violent crime, and stalking, in
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: their minds did not equal a violent crime, and they
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: threw out the firearm charge. The firearm charges what triggered
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the DP in the New York federal court. So the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Feds lost the DP at they get go, But this
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: plea rice is not their fault. Nobody can stop someone
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: charged with saying I play guilty. I did it under
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the sixth Amendment. They don't get a deal. They don't
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: get a sweetheart deal. They have to play blind. Explain
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: what happened with this plea and how now the murder
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: chargers may be thwarted in the New York state court.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Well, first off, what happened to mister Thompson was just horrible,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and we all feel for his family, his kids, his wife, certainly.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: But when you describe this as thwarted justice, I think
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: that that's just a complete miss description of what this is.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: He didn't write the New York laws. The New York
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: legislature is the one you want to be mad at
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: here because they're the one that said, no, no, we're
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: not going to go by that sovereignty law that the
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: federal government does. We're going to make it broader. We're
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: going to say if it comes out of the same
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: criminal transaction, then we're not going to allow a second prosecution.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: So this was at the end of the day a race,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: and the DA in New York knew this was a race,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: and that's why they wanted to try this case first.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: So mister Mangione's team and I got to tell you,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: this is a masterclass, a masterclass in what to do
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: as a defense attorney, walked into that courthouse last Friday
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: and let him do an open plea, no plea, deal
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: and open plea. That right there is what's going to
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: get the case knocked out of New York.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Pen up, Rice, how far up the defense team's tailpipe
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: are you? I'm just curious how you manage to claw
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: four inches up their tailpipe.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Hey, look, when I see good lawyering, I gotta give
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: a tip of my hat.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And you got to admit too.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: As a lawyer, you know they did the right thing
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: deep down inside. You know they're not defending the cross.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It's not that deep. They out maneuvered the state. It
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: ain't that deep, man. I'm not giving them credit. Got
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: much credit for figuring out two plus two equals four.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: The defense team out maneuvered the state. The state New
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: York should have moved the case up faster on the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: docket to avoid this, but this is what happened. Okay,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: before you continue to heap accolades upon the defense, and
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: yet they out maneuver the state. They did. It's just
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: plain and simple. It's cold. It's cold, but that's what happened.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: This is what went down. First of all, the Fed's
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: law lost the death penalty firearms charge, so all they've
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: got left are these two felony stalking charges. He crossed
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: state lines. He used interstate commerce to stalk the victim.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: That puts it in federal court. Interstate commerce. If you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: buy gas in another state with a credit card, you've
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: used interstate commerce. Bam. Just that simple. They got him
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: on that. He pled. A blind plea is when you
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: don't have a deal, you throw yourself at the mercy
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: of the court. We hear about cheap deals all the time.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Rise he charged your murder and he got involuntary manslaughter
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: five years to serve free of that on probation. What
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that's a plea deal? A blind plea is when you
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: go in front of the judge, the prosecutor is ill,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't want it to happen. You can't stop him under
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the constitution, goes hey, sendence me, I plead guilty to everything.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: That's what he did. Why was that smart? Because the
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: defense believes correct me if I'm wrong, rife, So I'm
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: sure you will. The defense believes that by pleading guilty
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: on those stalking charges that that's the same thing he's
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: been tried for in state court and therefore under double jeopardy.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Easy way. If oj Simpson came down, excuse me, came
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: up from hell right now and reappeared in your studio
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and went, Okay, I did it. Try me. Can't be
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: done because he's already been trying. He was acquitted double jeopardy.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: This is what the State of New York is arguing.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: What we're charging in with murder two people that's not stalking.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Stalking leads up to murder two. He stalked Brian Thompson
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and then gunned him down. That is the state's best argument.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And they darn well better not screw this argument up.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, no, they'll screw it up. And I'm gonna agree
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: with you a little bit there. And I can't believe
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: I'm saying that, but they will screw it up. And
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: in fact, Judge Caro has already said, essentially, I believe
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: this is double jeopardy had the Feds gone first, because
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: this argument was made in the past by his defense
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: team and he dismissed it, so he is probably leading
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: right now today.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: They stop talking about manifort. That's over and the facts
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: are highly different. I mean, I can distinguish the facts
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: just like that. So quit using maniffort as precedent in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: this case. Stalking is not murder too, That's real simple.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: And if the caro can't see that, he needs to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: get off the bench.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: It's not But it's the same transaction. One guns, one
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: built bullet.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Did you just say it's not the same thing it is?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: It's the same transaction.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty say it's not the same thing. It is
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: not the same thing. Double jeopardy. You know what, you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: know what? You need? So many many things. You need
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: so many things. I don't have fingers and toes to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: count them. All that said from one thing, a little
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: dose of humility. I know you think you're all that
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: because you win all your cases in your fancy Rice
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: law firm. You need to hear what happened to a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: husband and dad Brian Thompson. Okay, doctor Thomas Coin is
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: going to give Randolph Rice a tiny dose of reality.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Coin is the perfect person to do it. He's joining
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: us out of Tallahassee the chief medical zammar in District eight.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Never lack of business in the state of Florida. Toxicologists,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, and neuropathologist, Doctor Coin, What did Brian Thompson
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: endeure there bleeding out on the sidewalk in Manhattan, far
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: from home.
• 27:03
  Speaker 13: When you're shot in the back, one of the things
• 27:05
  Speaker 13: that could happen is that bullet could pass through your
• 27:08
  Speaker 13: spinal cord, and so he may have been immediately dropped
• 27:11
  Speaker 13: to the ground, realizing he's hurt, but unable to get
• 27:15
  Speaker 13: up and run away from the danger. That bullet also
• 27:18
  Speaker 13: could have passed through a number of vital organs, your lungs,
• 27:21
  Speaker 13: your heart, those main arteries that come out of our
• 27:24
  Speaker 13: heart the order, and so we could have been slowly
• 27:27
  Speaker 13: bleeding internally, all the while realizing that he's in danger.
• 27:32
  Speaker 13: Just prior until it passes out.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment, doctor Coin. You stated
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: bleeding until he passes out. I so often argued to juries.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Of course, it's against legal precedent, which means case law.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: What do I mean by that? Let's just go with
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the First Amendment right to free speech. Okay, Now that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: constitutional right in the First Amendment has been interpreted by
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: case law referred to as precedent to mean, yeah, you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: can burn the flag. That's freedom of speech. I doubt
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: pretty seriously the founding fathers meant, yeah, burn the flag.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: In fact, burn it in front of the church, go ahead,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: But it has been interpreted that way the law interpreted.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Doctor Coin says that the prosecutor cannot ask the jurors
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to place themselves in the shoes of the victim. So
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: what I would ask you if you were on the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: stand and you were my medical examiner on this case,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I would not ask the jury to place themselves in
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson's shoes. I would say something like, Dr Thomas Coin,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: could you explain to the jury, based on your medical expertise?
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: What Brian Thompson endeared as he bled out on the sidewalk,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: all dressed up in his fancy outfit to go to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: this big convention and work his tail off to support
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: his family. How long could he have survived? Could he
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: have thought, will I ever see my boys alive again?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Will I ever see my wife? Could he have had
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: those rational thoughts as he died on that early morning workday.
• 29:37
  Speaker 13: Absolutely, I think once the injury occurred, he would have
• 29:40
  Speaker 13: recognized that something serious had happened to him, probably dropped
• 29:43
  Speaker 13: to the ground immediately, and that would have triggered your
• 29:45
  Speaker 13: fight or flight response, where that anxiety will kick in.
• 29:49
  Speaker 13: And as he's bleeding internally, perhaps with a lung injury,
• 29:54
  Speaker 13: he may have been having increased difficulty breathing, choking on
• 29:58
  Speaker 13: blood within his lungs. That would have been very scared,
• 30:00
  Speaker 13: and he would have certainly had that impending thought, is
• 30:03
  Speaker 13: this it.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Hey, doctor Coin? You know it just rolls off your tongue.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: You're not in a deposition? What did you say about
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: him choking on his own blood?
• 30:17
  Speaker 13: So as if the bullet passed through his lungs, and
• 30:20
  Speaker 13: very likely, given the fact that they occupy a large
• 30:22
  Speaker 13: space in our chest, with every breath, as he's bleeding
• 30:26
  Speaker 13: into his lung tissue, it would have been increasingly more
• 30:29
  Speaker 13: difficult for him to get air, and so that blood
• 30:32
  Speaker 13: would have mixed with the gas coming in and out
• 30:34
  Speaker 13: of our lungs and he would have been sort of gurgling,
• 30:37
  Speaker 13: choking upon that on that blood as it pours into
• 30:40
  Speaker 13: the lung.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Tissue, the sensation Randolph or Ice. I mean, even while
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: we've been sitting here, and every time I say Brian
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Thompson's children, his two boys, his two boys. While every
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: time I say that, I think about my twins. I'm
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: never not thinking about them. And I wonder if he
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: laid there, bleeding out, choking on his own blood and thought, well,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I ever see my children again. And you're somehow justifying
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: double jeopardy and him not getting tried from murder too.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, who is the man in the mirror for
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Pete's safety? Everything this is wrong.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: It is wrong, Nancy. And by the way, you know
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: that when I've objected your questions there, that would have
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: gotten sustained. But we're not defending the actions here. We're
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: defending the constitution. And the constitution is what protects all
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: of us from living in a wild society here. And
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the Constitution says the Constitution, coupled with the New York
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: statutes and constitutions, say you can't do it twice. You
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: don't get two bites at the apple. The Feds are
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: going to get their pound of flesh, but you don't
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: get to do it again.
• 32:10
  Speaker 11: New York State I don't know how we know what
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: we can afford, but can I get a soap and
• 32:15
  Speaker 11: some towels?
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: I guess yeah.
• 32:17
  Speaker 14: Let's just check your balance, Manjoni, it looks like it
• 32:20
  Speaker 14: is four hundred thousand dollars.
• 32:28
  Speaker 11: Wait, what what what are you talking about?
• 32:31
  Speaker 13: What do you mean?
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: Where's that coming from? It looks like a couple of places,
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: Milpes for healthcare reform.
• 32:42
  Speaker 14: Bottoms United for Luigi in the last Lindsey Graham.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: That's Luigi the musical. We got it off insta to
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: David Sarni joining us former NYPD once he's raised not
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: four hundred thousand, but one point three million dollars for
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: a legal fund from the public. I mean there are
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: people starving and dying right now, children that can't get
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: to school, children that don't have lunch, crime victims that
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: cannot be helped because we don't have the money. And
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: people have donated one point three million dollars to a
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: cold blooded killer. His commissary alone to buy crackers and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: do o is forty grand forty grand four, an admitted
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: cold blooded killer.
• 33:53
  Speaker 15: Sarny, Yeah, it's it shocks us, a vile thing. I've
• 33:59
  Speaker 15: said this a thousand times I'll say a thousand more.
• 34:02
  Speaker 15: There's no justification for a murder. There is no reason
• 34:06
  Speaker 15: or anyone to believe and rationalize the actions that were
• 34:10
  Speaker 15: committed that day, that morning by the defendant in this case.
• 34:15
  Speaker 15: Nothing And it is amazing how the warped sense of morality,
• 34:19
  Speaker 15: the moral compass has been broken so much that you know,
• 34:24
  Speaker 15: we talked about when Manson had his family and everything else.
• 34:27
  Speaker 15: This is beyond that, because now you have social media
• 34:30
  Speaker 15: and people just adhere to this belief that this was
• 34:33
  Speaker 15: a justifiable assassination.
• 34:35
  Speaker 12: It's not. The crime is murder. What he did is murder.
• 34:38
  Speaker 12: There's no justification for it. Whatever people believe in, they
• 34:43
  Speaker 12: forget the fact that somebody lost a family member, someone
• 34:47
  Speaker 12: lost a father, a wife, and relatives. This is something
• 34:50
  Speaker 12: that it shocked me. I'm disgusted by it, and in
• 34:55
  Speaker 12: my twenty seven years of doing the job and being
• 34:57
  Speaker 12: in the police department, to see how people just by it,
• 35:00
  Speaker 12: people want even know the know the person in general,
• 35:03
  Speaker 12: and justifying it is beyond and I'm glad at least
• 35:06
  Speaker 12: we got something. We're hoping that will he be tried
• 35:09
  Speaker 12: for the murder. But right now you have the plea
• 35:12
  Speaker 12: in effect and I don't know what's gonna happen with
• 35:14
  Speaker 12: Judge Carrow. He's been doing this trial the entire time.
• 35:18
  Speaker 12: He's a fair judge, and we've seen maneuvering by the defense.
• 35:22
  Speaker 12: I mean, they're not doing anything wrong. They're doing their job. Now,
• 35:25
  Speaker 12: let's see if the Manhattan Dieze office and Alvin Briggs
• 35:29
  Speaker 12: people can do their job and pushed this to the
• 35:31
  Speaker 12: murder charge that we're looking for in New York State.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin, investigative reporter, LA Magazine CoA star Pop Crime TV.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: What happens now?
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, so Luigia Mangiona gets federally sentenced on December eighteenth,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: but Judge Carroll on Monday, April seventeenth actually posted that
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the defense has until October or I'm sorry that people
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: have until October ninth to respond to the defense's motion
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: to dismiss. So we will see what happens there. Luigi's
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: state trial, Nancy, it's adjourned. We don't go back to
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: state court until December.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: His children are better.
• 36:12
  Speaker 10: Off without him.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: They need to learn about me like they're dad and
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: enjoyed the blood money pad.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: Bryan Fulkson, I don't even millions of America I liked it.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: These are filed fool for more deaths than Osama b
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: and Laden, And I remember Americans celebrating Gleen Osama b
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: and Laden was killed. It's not like we don't understand
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: heroic violence or like when violence so good?
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: That's at mal Crane Newman on ex Karen start with
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: us renowned forensic psychologists. What is wrong with them?
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: They don't know that anything's wrong with them. So many
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: people are joining in and they're getting rewarded for this behavior.
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: And the truth is they've turned him into like a
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: modern day Robin Hood, like somebody who is doing something
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: for everyone who committed a crime. All of a sudden,
• 37:06
  Speaker 7: Brian Thompson is not a person. He's been dehumanized, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: he's turned into a symbol, a symbol of a healthcare
• 37:14
  Speaker 7: system that is failing everyone. But that is not what
• 37:17
  Speaker 7: we really have here, but that's what they're telling themselves,
• 37:21
  Speaker 7: and they're enthralled by him. He's also good looking, so
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: he has that halo effect where people begin to attach
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: all kinds of different things to him because of how
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: good he looks like. He must be worthwhile, he must
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: be doing the right thing. And yet we know none
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: of this really makes sense. There is nothing that he
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: did that prevents this family from suffering. And Brian Thompson
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: was not the person responsible at all for the healthcare system.
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: That's a whole different ballgame. And yet they're getting attention
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: and they feel like maybe he'll notice them and they'll
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: be the special person who could take this wounded bird
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: and make him feel whole again. That's the kind of
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: thing that goes into this bad boy love fandom that
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: we're seeing.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Karen starrt you stated he's good looking. Let the record reflect.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I disagree with you. He looks like the devil to me.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: People thought Ted Bundy was good looking. People think Chris
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Wats is good looking. That they're not. They're the devil.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And you said the health care industry, insurance, big insurance
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: fail people. I just want to put it out there.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I only saw my father shed a tear. And you
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: knew my dad very well one time when his mother
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: passed away, But he almost shed a tear when he
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: got the bill from his first coronary thrombosis. He's in
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: his thirties. I had my sixteenth birthday in the hospital
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: with my father. We got a bill for like one
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars a bill, and he was
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: working on the railroad Norfolk Southern Railroad. My mother was
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: a payroll clerk. My dad almost cried. I saw his
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: eyes fill up when he got that bill. Insurance ended
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: up paying all but about fifteen thousand dollars, and my
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: father and mother they didn't just ignore the debt like
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: people don't pay their student loans. They paid every month
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: until they paid that fifteen grand off, all right, And
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to do it, my mom would have a list when
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: we go to the grocery store and we could not
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: get anything off the list. I remember asking, you know,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: at the checkout line, they have candy and all that
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: for your children waiting in line. I asked her something.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: My mother didn't say anything, but she just turned around
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and looked at me like I knew we couldn't have that.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: We could not have the bubblegum period because we had
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: to pay off that insurance, that hospital bill, and we did.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: So you just throw it out there that the insurance
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: industry sucks. I don't know about that. If you know
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: or think you know anything regarding this case, that the
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: state could use dial eight hundred two two five five
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: three two four or five seven seven tips. That's eight
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: hundred five seven seven eight four seven seven. Tonight we
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Lieutenant Deborah Lescinda Clayton, Orlando PD,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: shot and killed in the line of duty, living and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: protecting the public for seventeen years, leaving behind her husband,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: now a widower, Seth, and their son Johnny. American Hero
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Deborah Lscinda Clayton. Thank you to our guests, but especially
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: to you for being us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: good night for him.