Latest / Becoming / Eli Weinstein: Don't Lose Each Other in the Parenting Years

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Eli Weinstein: Don't Lose Each Other in the Parenting Years · Becoming

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: A lot of time for men, from a research perspective,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: they feel like they're not enough. What they're doing isn't
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: being recognized. So they feel very alone. The moms feel
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: alone because they're feeling like the default parent, that everything
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: falls on them and they feel like they're drowning and
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: that no one gets it. A lot of times we
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: feel like disconnected or overwhelmed or moving in 18 different directions.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We have to figure out what the basic need is
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: that we feel frustrated with. We have to really look
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: inward first to go, okay, This is the thing that
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I really need. I'm going to make a list. These
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: are the things now I can talk to my partner
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: about and go, hey, we can do this together. Let's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: talk about it. It opens the door for the conversation
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: because then they get to think about it too.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: So excited to have Ellie Weinstein on the podcast today. Now,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: we've been going through a little bit of an iteration.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: The fatherhood movement is now join becoming. So it's becoming.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: It just felt like it was fatherhood movement. It was
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: too much just targeted to fathers. And we have so
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: many amazing women joining. who are a part of this community.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: So join becoming.com. That's the new site. That's new platform.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: That's what's going on moving forward. And but Ellie, you guys,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: not only is a therapist that's worked with tons of
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  Speaker 2: married couples. He's also written the book from I do
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: to we do and you got to order your copy
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: now Amazon in a Barnes and Noble bookshop. You can
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: find him there. Make sure to follow him on social
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: media as he's on across the board. I wanted Ellie
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to come on with me today because I feel like
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  Speaker 2: what he's been teaching and preaching online totally hits with you,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: my friends who are with me along this journey in becoming.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And so Ellie, so glad to have you. You're sitting
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: in Vegas. Is that right?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about 105 degrees and like some crazy humidity.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: But hey, you know what? We're inside in the air
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: conditioning getting to talk to Bubba. What could be better,
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  Speaker 1: you know?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's fantastic. We got to get into some nitty gritty.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: You've been helping a ton of families, mostly in your
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: therapy practice, right? And now you have this book. Why
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: did you decide to write a book practicing as a
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: therapist for so long?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Because I was asked. I hate writing. It's my biggest fear.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: But I have a podcast called The Dude Therapist Podcast.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I'm a dude who's a therapist. And that was a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: late night conversation with a friend. What should I call
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: my podcast? Like, you're a dude. Just call the dude podcast.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, great. And someone reached out and said, from
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: a publishing company, we don't have a lot of male
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  Speaker 1: therapists in the world of relationships and parenting. And I said, well,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that's what I do. And so I didn't plan on
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: writing a book until I was probably in my 60s
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: or 70s. But I'm like retiring and wrapping up. less
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: in the little kids stage of life and more in the,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: they're out of the house. I actually have brain power
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  Speaker 1: and time, but God gave me an opportunity. I could
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  Speaker 1: have to take it, you know, got to grab it
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  Speaker 1: when it comes. So I couldn't say no, I would
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  Speaker 1: rather have like a Dr. Phil show and, uh, you know,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a big podcast and, uh, impact people through talking. That's
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  Speaker 1: my vibe is more of a, a talker and connecting
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: people through that way. So the opportunity came and it
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  Speaker 1: was a ride. It was a nice ride of, uh,
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  Speaker 1: 10 months of grueling writing your heart out, but so glad,
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  Speaker 1: so proud of it, so excited about the product that
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  Speaker 1: I created. It's been fun. It's been an interesting self-journey,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but it's been fun.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean, you know, I have eight children, right? So,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: with eight kids ranging from six to 16, we had
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: eight in 10 years. When you have your book, Navigating
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Marriage in the Parenting Years, like, come on, we all
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  Speaker 2: know if you're listening and you've got children, it changes
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the game. Now, it's a beautiful chaos, I like to
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  Speaker 2: call it. And having children, I think, is one of
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  Speaker 2: the greatest reasons why we even came here to this
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  Speaker 2: earth at some point. was to then rear children. They're
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  Speaker 2: teaching us just as much as we're teaching them. But
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  Speaker 2: the marriage dynamics change. So help us, help all of
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  Speaker 2: my good friends here that are listening and watching. What
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  Speaker 2: do we need to be aware of as we enter in,
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  Speaker 2: or if you're in the marriage with children now, how
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  Speaker 2: do we not lose that spark, that energy, that connection
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  Speaker 2: that tends to get dull over time? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I think the first thing is just like realizing
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  Speaker 1: that that's going to happen. I think a lot of
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  Speaker 1: people had this expectation that how we were when we
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  Speaker 1: were dating, whether we get married or not, but when
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  Speaker 1: we're married and we're about to have kids, one kid, two,
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  Speaker 1: it should just be easy and simple and just the same.
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  Speaker 1: So there is an acceptance experience we have to really
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  Speaker 1: wrap our heads around to say, okay, this is not
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  Speaker 1: what I thought it's going to be. Things are changing
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  Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean that we are a problem. A
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  Speaker 1: lot of times we then turn against each other Or
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  Speaker 1: we start fighting with each other about the changes and
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  Speaker 1: not realizing this is not a problem with us. We
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  Speaker 1: just haven't learned the skills to adjust to this new reality.
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  Speaker 1: And it is a skill. And it's something I repeat,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how many times in the book, of
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  Speaker 1: the idea that this is a skill that you get
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  Speaker 1: to learn. And a skill is something that is accessible.
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  Speaker 1: It's not something that you were either genetically born with or...
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  Speaker 1: you have a talent. This is not like, Oh, I'm
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: musical or I'm not musical. This is something that have
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  Speaker 1: practical takeaways and tools that anyone can learn. Are you
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  Speaker 1: willing to do it though? Are you willing to put
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  Speaker 1: your ego aside or not stick to a certain story
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  Speaker 1: or a narrative or an expectation and go, you know what?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know everything. I am not good at this
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  Speaker 1: skill because I've never tested it or tried it yet.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But again, It's not a problem with the two of you.
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  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean your marriage is a problem because you struggle
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  Speaker 1: when you have one, two, three, four, eight kids. And
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  Speaker 1: now you're like, what the hell happened to us? Where
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  Speaker 1: have we gone? You lost touch with it. That's okay.
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  Speaker 1: Let's tap back in. Let's connect back in. Let's find
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  Speaker 1: those skills and start practicing them more. But I think
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing we have to realize, we loved each
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  Speaker 1: other for a reason. We got into this for a reason. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Life is now shifting and the world is pivoting and
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  Speaker 1: we haven't adjusted to this new reality because we're still
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  Speaker 1: stuck in an old headspace or we just don't know
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  Speaker 1: what the new headspace needs from us. So let's get
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  Speaker 1: back into it. Let's figure it out. I love it.
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  Speaker 2: Ellie, I mean, I know for me, I, again, I,
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  Speaker 2: one of the main reasons why I even created a
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: podcast like this or even started sharing on social media
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  Speaker 2: is was I wanted people to learn what I wish
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  Speaker 2: I knew 10, 15 years ago, five years ago, three
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  Speaker 2: years ago even. because I don't think we had the
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  Speaker 2: understanding within our relationship that those types of things were
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  Speaker 2: going to happen. We were just plugging along, plugging along, building, building, building.
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  Speaker 2: And look, we did build a beautiful life for ourselves,
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  Speaker 2: for our children. But believe me, like that disconnect absolutely happens.
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  Speaker 2: And yet we don't even, it's slow. It's such a
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: slow progress. that you wake up one day and you're like,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: where did we go? Where did this connection go? And
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I do want so badly for those who are either
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: going into a new relationship or those who are in
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  Speaker 2: a relationship to recognize how important it is to be self-aware.
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  Speaker 2: This is the process. This happens. And unless we're consistently
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  Speaker 2: working on this relationship, we will fall apart at some point.
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  Speaker 2: So if we're talking about You know, the relationships that
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: are in it, they're in the grind. They've got the one, two, three,
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  Speaker 2: four kids right now. And they're, you know, they're overwhelmed.
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  Speaker 2: They're dealing with, you know, schools and sports and pianos
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  Speaker 2: and church stuff. And they're at their wits end. At
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  Speaker 2: the end of the day, they're just exhausted. So what
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  Speaker 2: are the key things you're walking through these couples? Like
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  Speaker 2: what can they do? Because if we can save even
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  Speaker 2: just one couple from this podcast, hallelujah.
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  Speaker 1: I know, it'd be amazing. Um, uh, hopefully I don't
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  Speaker 1: have a magic pill, but hopefully I have some, uh,
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  Speaker 1: good ideas that could help anyone today. And any one
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  Speaker 1: of my things. And one of my vibe is I'm
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  Speaker 1: very no BS with lots of compassion, but I'm very
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  Speaker 1: practical and realistic. I'm not here to give, you know,
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  Speaker 1: platitudes and fluffy things, but, but realness. So I love
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  Speaker 1: that question because it pushes that, that, that idea. I
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  Speaker 1: think the first thing we need to do is actually
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  Speaker 1: be cognizant of what we need. A lot of times
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  Speaker 1: we feel like disconnected or overwhelmed or, you know, moving
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  Speaker 1: in 18 different directions, but is there like a practical
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  Speaker 1: thing that I actually need? Let's say, I feel that
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  Speaker 1: you don't care about me anymore. I feel like I
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  Speaker 1: don't matter. Hey, we haven't just hung out and had
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  Speaker 1: fun in eight years. I haven't laughed with you. We
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: haven't talked other than just about the kids. Logistics. But
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  Speaker 1: we haven't gotten deeper. So we have to figure out
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  Speaker 1: what the basic need is that we feel frustrated with.
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  Speaker 1: We have to really look inward first to go, okay,
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  Speaker 1: this is a thing that I really need. I'm going
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to make a list and check it twice. And I'm
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: going to look at it and go, these are the
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  Speaker 1: things now I can talk to my partner about of
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  Speaker 1: things that I really like need to hold onto and
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  Speaker 1: grab onto and go, Hey, we can do this together.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. It opens the door then for
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  Speaker 1: the conversation. Cause then they get to think about it too. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I need that also. Or, and this is
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: not just like, Oh, you know, I need a hug
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  Speaker 1: every day. Those are beautiful. Wonderful. Throw them in. Have
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  Speaker 1: that baseline love of the hugs, the kisses, those things.
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  Speaker 1: But it's a deeper thing that we're missing. A lot
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: of time for men, from a research perspective, they feel
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: like they're not enough or what they're doing isn't being recognized.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So they feel very alone, right? I did the dishes.
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  Speaker 1: I took care of the kids and still you don't
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  Speaker 1: thank me. Still you don't care about me. You don't
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  Speaker 1: see all my efforts. A lot of the moms feel
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: alone because they're feeling like the default parent that everything
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: falls on them and they feel like they're drowning. and
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  Speaker 1: that no one gets it. Okay, those are deep things
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  Speaker 1: to talk about. And then those two things lead to
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  Speaker 1: the way I now view you, the resentment, the buildup
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  Speaker 1: of the frustrating moments, the annoying moments that I never
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: let go and I hold on to. So it's about
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  Speaker 1: learning these patterns, being cognizant of what's going on in
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  Speaker 1: here and here in your heart, your mind, and your
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  Speaker 1: soul of, oh, I got to focus on that a
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  Speaker 1: little more. I need your help with this. This is
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  Speaker 1: a source coming from you and I'm just letting you
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  Speaker 1: into that. That's number one, finding those needs. How you
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  Speaker 1: do it depends on the need, depends on how the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: conversation goes, but you got to start talking about it.
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  Speaker 1: You got to start opening the door a little bit
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  Speaker 1: because the more you let it build up, the more
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  Speaker 1: you let it, boil over, the harder it is to
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  Speaker 1: rein it back in. So the earlier that you can
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  Speaker 1: start being aware of your needs and start communicating that
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  Speaker 1: with your partner, start talking about it with them without
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  Speaker 1: attacking or coming with curiosity, not judgment. Instead of saying,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: what the hell is wrong with you? We're going with, Hey,
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  Speaker 1: are you okay? What do you need? What's going on?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: How can I be there for you? That shift of
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: starting to talk about it and be a little more curious,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a little more kind and less judgmental and less hateful.
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  Speaker 1: We can really start tapping into those needs a lot
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  Speaker 1: more for each other.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I think there's got to be so many
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: of us that are listening here that can absolutely relate
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: to these types of feelings.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I know I do.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's part of the whole process. Like the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: process of a newlywed status and then 10 years in
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: or 15 years in, there's a reason why the majority
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: of divorces happen in your 40s.
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  Speaker 1: Right?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: You're in the thick of all the kid stuff for
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: the kid, you know, it's so busy, so crazy. You've
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: lost a sense of that connection. So I think sometimes
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: if I'm listening to this, I'm saying, well, okay, if
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I bring up the hard topic, what if the person
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: gets defensive? What if they get, you know, what if
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: they feel like they're being attacked? What are some tactics?
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  Speaker 2: One of being the, of the asker of, Hey, there's
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: something wrong and we need to fix it without it
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: being and feeling like an attack, but also on the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: flip side, If I'm the one being told you're doing
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: something wrong or whatever, how do I not take that
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  Speaker 2: as an attack and get defensive? Do you know what
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I mean? So from both angles, how does each partner
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: talk to each other to make this a positive experience?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to be honest. I'm always honest. I'm
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: going to be real for a second. It might lead to...
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: frustration and anger and annoyance. That might just be that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the honesty just hurts. The honesty gets real. And because
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: we haven't done it in a while or we haven't
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: had the courage or the safety to do it. And
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: when you finally do it, it might get intense. Don't
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: be afraid of intensity. Intensity is not a bad thing.
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  Speaker 1: Something that just means that the tensions are heightened and
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  Speaker 1: we got to talk about it. The longer you let
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  Speaker 1: that intensity linger and not deal with it, that's anger,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that's resentment, and even gets to the bad word of content.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And the content is a very hard thing to pull
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  Speaker 1: back from, from a therapy perspective, from a mental health perspective,
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  Speaker 1: because I'm disgusted with you. Like, we don't want to
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: lead to that point. Like, I can't even look at you.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: You know what I hear often when I'm drinking with
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: couples and they're in that space? Like, oh my gosh,
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  Speaker 1: do you hear the breathing? Their breathing's annoying.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: They're chewing. Do you hear how they laugh? I want
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: to kill them like that is content. We don't want
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: to let it get there.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So the first thing is when it comes to the
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: person talking, it's all how you phrase it. So it
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: comes with like a formula. Make sure the person's ready
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to listen. Hey, you got a few minutes. I really
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: want to talk to you about something. Invite them into
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the conversation versus assuming that they are ready to talk
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: about something. Let's say your partner had a rough day.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: They're overwhelmed. They're tired. You're laying in bed and you
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: just go, hey, honey, you know how you suck, right?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: No one's going to be ready for that. So you
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: got to be like, hey, I got something on my heart.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: You got a couple minutes. I want to talk to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you about something. If they say, yeah, what's up? The
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: invitation has been created. The invite's been accepted. You RSVP
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to the conversation. But let's say they say, you know,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I really don't want to talk right now. I'm really tired.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: The other person has to say, okay, well, when can
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: we talk?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Don't just say, okay, I give up. Don't push it
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: down the road and never do it. The conversation's important.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Prioritize it. Make it matter. When you want to make
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the effort in a relationship, you can't just wait for the,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you have to create it. You can't just wait for it.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So you have to create the opportunity. So that's about
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: putting it out there going, Hey, here's what I need.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about something for the other person.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Let's say the conversations. Oh yeah. So what's the question
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: on that?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I just, I'm thinking about like knowing that
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I've gone through a divorce and, and as you're saying
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: some of these things, I'm recognizing the flags that the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: red flags that I should have seen along the way
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: that I didn't recognize, right? Cause I didn't know. I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: just didn't know. I hadn't been taught. We've been seeing therapists.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: The problem is I don't think those therapists knew how
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to like train us to be self-aware that these red
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: flags were happening until it was too late kind of
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: a thing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: So are there some of these red flags of, of
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: self-awareness and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone else. I don't,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily thinking what's the red flag from the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: other person. what are my own red flags? Like if the,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: if you're annoyed with the person's chewing, you're way too far.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like how, but you know,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: yet no one's ever too far to bring it back.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So are there some basic things of, of, okay, if
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I'm recognizing these certain things, maybe I need to double
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: check myself. Yeah.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Is that, does that make sense? Yeah. I love the question.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Do come to mind. Number one is lack of compassion
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: for someone you say you love. If I'm like, oh
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: my gosh, you say you're tired, you're so annoying, oh,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I can't deal with you. You wouldn't do that to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: your kids. If your kid's like, I don't feel well,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, okay, what can I do to help you?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't be like, shut up, stop complaining. But all
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of a sudden your partner says their back hurts, they're tired,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: they're overwhelmed, and you go, what are you overwhelmed about?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Why are you even tired? Don't
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: even start complaining to me. That lack of compassion and grace.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: If we start feeling that creeping in, We got to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: start dealing with that earlier than later. That's number one.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Number two, I would say stop giving people the benefit
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of the doubt. If I'm assuming that you are doing
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: something on purpose to bother me, annoy me, to make
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: excuses so that now I have more on my plate,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: if I'm in that headspace of no benefit of the doubt,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: That's that grace piece, right? There's compassion, which is the
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: kindness we give. And the grace is giving someone space
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to be human. You messed up. You broke a dish.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You know, you burnt dinner. You forgot something. Yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: You forgot the kid's backpack in the car while dropping off.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: You don't go, you don't fly off the handle. Go,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: what the heck is wrong with you? You always do this.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You don't think you don't look in the mirror and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you have those problems too. We all do. We're human.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: So it's those two things. And the third thing, especially
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: for men, I would say is your fuse. Be cognizant
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: of your fuse. So being stressed is okay. You're human, right? Finances, job,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: kids are overwhelming you. You're getting dysregulated. But stress is
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: never an excuse to start attacking your person and going
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: at your person because you are overwhelmed in stress. That
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: is not an excuse. You could be stressed and still
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: treat your partner with respect and with kindness. Or if
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you're stressed and overwhelmed and you can't, then you need
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: to learn to let it out and deal with it healthier.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: So those are the three things I would say is compassion.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: When you start having lack of compassion, when you start
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: lacking grace, that benefit the doubt mentality. And the third
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: thing specifically for men is when the stress creates this little, like,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I know I struggle with that. I get dysregulated sometimes
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: where I like lose my cool, right? You're fused.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: These are pieces that I just wish so badly that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: we as a couple would have known, you know, 10,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: 15 years ago, five years.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: And this is, this is why I'm so passionate about
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the book because when I work, I work with a
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: few clients who are in their thirties, men in their thirties,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and they're having their second or third kid or fourth kid.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: And they go, where were you when I was in
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: my twenties? I wouldn't be in these things. And I go,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I was here. You just decided to, you know, get,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: get therapy now. And that's fine. I'm glad you're doing
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: it now versus never. But to me, the book stuff,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the way I wrote the book is very story. It's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: very human. It's very personal. This is not me better
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: than you. I struggle every day with being a parent
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and a husband. I'm not perfect. So I write those
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: stories in there that I lose my cool. I snap
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: at my kids. I yell. I get down on myself, right?
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: About all those things. But it's a very, it's like
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: a love letter to people going through it because every
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: single person who has been married and has kids, struggles
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: with this. Because it's a massive adjustment that you are
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: not ready for because you never did it before. And
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: one to two kids different. My wife is doing a
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: week with our third kid, right? From two to three
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: is very different than one to two. Three to six,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: different world. I love your life. Three, I got eight, right?
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And that's beautiful. And it's amazing. But the challenges you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have when you have one kid to two kids to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: three kids to eight kids, if you're not reassessing your reality.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and plugging in different skills or pivoting those skills to
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the new state of your life, you're outdated. You need
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: a new update. But if you never update it, you're
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: behind the eight ball. You're struggling. Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Okay. This is fantastic because I know so many of
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: these married couples or those seeking their next partner, their
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: next spouse, these are pieces of the pie that we
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: all have to have. So now that we have these
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: three steps that you just walked us through, if you're
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: feeling any of these three pieces, it's time to look
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: inward because you can't change the other person. Like, you know,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: they're going to have to do this work on their own.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: But if you're just looking at you and you start
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: recognizing you have one of these three things, what is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: it that they should do right now to stop it? Like,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: you know, nip it in the bud and just say– okay,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I need to either reset the mindset. I need to
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: get into a better, you know, you know, get right
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: with God. I need to exercise more. Like what is
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: it that they can do to, if they recognize that
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: they are doing the, one of these three things or
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: all three, what's the very first step they have to do?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Well, come to me so I can smack you around
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: and yell you a little bit. That'd be number one.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: But no, number two, the real thing.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Come to you. Yeah.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: No, the real thing is, is being honest with yourself
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: if you actually want to make the change.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So if you notice it, that's great. Wonderful. So proud
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: of you. You're being aware. You're opening your eyes, your
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: heart and mind. Awesome. Do you want to actually do it?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Do you care enough about your relationship to make the effort?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Because I get pushback a lot. Ellie, you're asking so much.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I have to communicate more. I have to try. Yeah,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: it's your relationship. Do you really want to do the
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: effort and make it work? Because if you really do
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and you say you really love this person, you really
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: care about this person, what's stopping you? So that's the
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: real hard question. The second thing is, okay, what is
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the source of why this is getting in my way?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Why am I getting so angry? What's the undertone? What's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the why? So if I have no more compassion for
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: my partner because I'm tired of hearing all the complaints
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: because they get off easy and I still have to do...
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That's ego, bro. That's you being more about yourself than
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: seeing the other person for who they are. That you're
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: not the same. That relationships will never be equal or fair.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So stop trying to make it scoreboard, matchy-matchy, all wonderful.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I have my challenges. They have theirs. I have my battles.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: They have theirs. But if I'm like, well, I can
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: do this so easily. I don't complain about being tired.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Why do they?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Why are you comparing? Why do you have to do that?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Where's the compassion? Where's the kindness? Where's the grace? Why
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: is it so hard for me is the second question.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And when I can get to really putting it out there,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: you know, growing up, I was taught that men do this.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I was taught that wives behave this way. Or even,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a friend did this and I don't like that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: So I go the opposite extreme. Or I had a
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: bad marriage or bad struggle there. So I'm trying to
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: do the different. But the different doesn't work for this person.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: The different works for me. And I'm not taking them
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: into account. All these things are just being really honest with, hey,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I have a problem. I'm struggling with this. This is
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: not feeling good. Do I want to make the commitment
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and do the work? And the second thing is, okay,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: so what's stopping me? What's the why? Why am I
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: having such a hard time with this?
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I love it. So, you use the word do the work.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, one, I never even
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: had heard that four years ago. And there is another
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: book out there called How to Do the Work from
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Nicola Pereira. And they call it work because it is
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: so hard. And most people give up throughout the process
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: because it is difficult. And as I've been trying to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: do the work, And I'm sure I still have a
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: long way to go. But as I've been in this
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: process of doing the work, it's been gut wrenching. I mean,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: some of it I'm pulling out. I look down because
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: it's like I've shoved things down for so many years
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that I'm like pulling them up out of my soul
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to try and process whether it's grief or fears or
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: self abandonment or even the fear of abandonment. And as
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to process some of those pieces of why,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: why do I do this? Why do I think this?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Is it from my childhood? Is it because of a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: traumatic experience? Those pieces have opened my eyes. And what's
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: been fascinating is that as I had started to have
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: more compassion for my own healing, it gave me a
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: new set of eyes to see other people with more compassion.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Because once I got to know my own issues and struggles,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: then it was like, Oh my gosh, I can, I
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: can see them hurting or struggling with whatever the thing is.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And that new viewpoint gave me more compassion and more
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: grace with whatever that person was struggling with at the time. And,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: and it's been fascinating because again, I'm not the expert here,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: but like, I've just known from my own experience now,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: even in this new dating world, right. In forties and dating,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that's a whole nother podcast. Um, But now I'm able
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: to go out with someone and even in the very
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: first date or experience with them, I feel like I
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: have a new sense of where they're at emotionally. If
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: we're vulnerable with each other, if we have a deeper discussion.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times I feel like people are
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: stuck with bitterness, stuck with anger. They're stuck in a
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: sense that sometimes I feel like some people are stuck
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: back in their teenage years. Like they almost reverted from
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: being an adult back to being a 20 year old.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, what happened? Like you're a parent with
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: X number of children and yet you're acting like a
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: teenager again. So help us understand like, one, why are
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: people reverting back to this type of childlike, teenager-like behavior?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And how do they pull these things out to process
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: so they can heal moving forward and do the work?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, doing the work is torturous, but in a goal-oriented way.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You're not trying to just torture yourself for funsies, right?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: You're really sitting and being honest with yourself. I know
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I do the work and I have so much work
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to do like everyone else. It's not fun to be honest, right?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: about the stuff that you suck at or not good
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: at or struggling with and putting it out there for
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: someone to see, including yourself, right? Usually it's very easy
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to look out someone and go, you know, you're, you suck.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You're the problem. But to look at yourself, I'm a
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: big fan of journaling. I've been journaling since I was
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: eight years old. Well, no journal every day. I journal
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: when I feel like I need to. And that free
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: thought doesn't have to be perfect. It just gets things out. Um,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: talking to people who actually have your back, like a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: real friend, can really bring out a lot of the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: things that you're honest with, to be honest with. Sometimes
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: it's a song. You don't even realize it brings out something,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: a thought. And you get that thought, your soul is
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: singing about something, write it down, put it down somewhere
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and mull it over, talk about it with yourself or
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: go to therapy. But the therapist should be someone who
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: challenges you. It's not just someone who lets you talk
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: forever and doesn't push back and challenge. It's someone who
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: calls you out. No, we don't want yes men. There's
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: only who calls you out and says, excuse me. No,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: that's not healing or helpful. You're hurting yourself. Why people revert?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: They revert because it's easier. I think a lot of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: people go back to either younger self or an easier time,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: or they want to sow their oats and they never
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: had an opportunity to do those things because that married
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: younger or had kids younger and they never had the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: chance to go party, do and have fun. Okay. You
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: do you, if that's what you want to do. But
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: in the end, you're making a choice. of immaturity or
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: a choice of fun and partying without the responsibility that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you are now in your forties. Like that's not, you
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: can still have fun in your forties. You know, you
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: might pay for it the next day because the hangover
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: deals differently and your body hurts more. But in the end,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: people revert back because it's like a simpler thing or
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: their body's going back to a time where they didn't
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: have to have these responsibilities and have to deal with
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: this stuff. When it comes to.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: The idea of- Exactly. A lot of times it's avoiding.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: A lot of times it's avoiding. A lot of times
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: it's just a simpler thing than actually looking at yourself
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: in the mirror and being honest with yourself. And the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: idea of like pulling things out and doing the work,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, having someone who challenges you, a
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: partner who challenges you and helps you grow, it doesn't
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: mean that they're just cheering you on when things are easy.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: It's also someone who's going to call you out, but
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: also hold your hand through it when it's hard. Like
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: my wife will call me out. but she's not just
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: there to call me out and point and laugh and
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: make me feel bad. She goes, she's pointing it out
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: because I'm struggling or I'm suffering and it's impacting me
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: and the family. And she goes, but we're going to
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: get through it together. And I do the same for her.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Now I'm not being her therapist and I'm not there
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: to be like, you know, analyzing, but if there's a
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: pattern that hurts me or something is happening that hurts
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: things in our life, I'm gonna be like, Hey, I'm
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: so sorry you're struggling with this and I have your back,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: but we gotta do something about it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: It's always a we. We have each other's back. And
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I think that in the end, there's a lot of
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: things that we can talk about, like you said, before
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: about the, the person who's asking and the person receiving
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: when someone calls you out or wants to talk about
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: something with a genuine care for you, no malice, no hatred. No,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I want to shove your face in it. your part
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: as the one listening, you need to be able to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: accept it knowing who they are as the benefit of
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the doubt. Why would someone call me out or talk
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to me about something real unless they say, if they
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: say they love me and they're doing it with love,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I'm usually pushing back and attacking because I wasn't expecting,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I wasn't ready, or I really don't want to be
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: honest about it. I feel called out. I feel ashamed.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I feel embarrassed. So if I know that someone has
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: my back and they're doing it because they love me
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and they love the family, And they want me to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: be better for everyone. And they're willing to go along
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: with me and take the, you know, sacrifice with me
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to work on it. I need to accept that. Yeah.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Instead of fighting it so often and pushing back so often.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But it takes a lot, a lot of effort to
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: not automatically just jump the gun and go, no, you
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: shut up. And that's, that's, that's on us. So it's
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a fight to be better at that.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So how, okay. So now we've got, you know, you've
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: helped us to know, to be more aware. You've one, two,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: three steps. Are you aware that you're thinking or doing
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: these types of thing? And if you are, time to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: look inward at yourself and what can you do to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: make these positive changes? You've now talked about the ability
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: to communicate and doing it to not be defensive, to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: do it, to listen and to hear and to really
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: have that person's back. if we were able to now
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: shift to when they've now had the discussion and let's
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: say that one of them did get dysregulated.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: You know, one of them did get dysregulated and therefore
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: they're flying off the handle. They're emotional. Something's going on.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: How do we repair? If someone flies off the handle,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: we hope that they recognize that they did that and
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: they can come back, apologize. But a lot of times
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: they don't. or we don't. So how, how do we
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: create a better repairing? Because we're going to have disagreements.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: We're going to have arguments that create a heated environment.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: That's part of marriage. So repair is what people talk
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: about most, but how do we actually do it? Yeah.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: So I have a whole chapter on this called love
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and war, but, uh, I'll try to take some things
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: from it and, um, I don't remember what I wrote
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: in the whole thing, you know, in the whole pages
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and pages. Two tactical things I like, and I like
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: very practical things. One is called the huddle and one
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I call a rompous moment. I'll explain why I call
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: that and what that means. The huddle, any sport analogy
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: you can think of, we can go football, you know,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a timeout meeting, you're wearing a jazz shirt, right? The
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: jazz guy timeout, 30 seconds. Let's get a better game plan.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Let's get a hold on this.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: We're losing momentum, right? You can feel the shift in
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the game. The game is on the line. You call
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: a huddle and you can literally say, Hey, you don't,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: don't do timeout. People find that obnoxious actually when you
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: do it in their face, but go, okay, huddle up,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: huddle up, right? Call it whatever you want to call it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Team meeting. Just the two of you. Hey, are you okay?
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Cause you're on the same team. Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Like what's going on? Are you okay? You just snapped.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Like again, that curiosity versus judgment, something, yo, what the
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: hell's wrong with you? We talked about this. Why are
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you losing your mind again? What are you crazy?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: That's calling someone out in an aggressive way. Now that
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: might happen once in a while. We make mistakes. Okay.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I hear that. But if we can and have a
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: better understanding, again, benefit of the doubt, grace and kindness. Hey,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: huddle up. What's going on? You good? The kid just
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: asked you for water. Why do you yell at them?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: What's going on in here? What's happening? Are you okay?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: That's that huddle on scene.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I love the curiosity.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Right there and there. On scene.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Rompus is for later on. Okay. So on scene, the huddle.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Calling it in. Right? Make a game plan. Hey, you
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: need 10 minutes? I got you. You got to go upstairs?
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: You got to go to the gym? You want to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: go outside and take the dog for a walk? Maybe
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you need a little something to eat?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: But right now, what's the huddle? Let's make a game plan.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Let's figure it out on scene. Rompus, the reason why
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: I call Rompus moments my favorite word, from Where the
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Wild Things Are. It's a famous book. Let the Rampus begin.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It means to dance, to prance, to run around and
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: have a good time. So I just call it that
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: because it's like a trigger word, a cue word between
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a husband and wife or you can do it with
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: your kids, by the way. A Rampus moment is this concept.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I have something on my chest. Something is bugging me
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and I want to let it out. I want to
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: let the steam out a little bit. I don't want
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: this to fester. I don't want it to be that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting, you know, one day, two days, three weeks
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. And then it has more energy.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: And also I kind of forgot what the hell it's
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: about anyways.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's the two thing of, I don't want
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: it to blow up. And also I want to make
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: sure I know what it feels like to talk to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you about it. So the example I give, and I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: have my wife's permission to talk about it. Um, anything,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: all the stories I got in full permission. Um, and, uh,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I asked her once, I said, Hey baby, can I,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: can I clean the dishes? Like these dishes right here?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Do you need them? Can I clean them? She screamed
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: at me. I was like, what? I, I asked to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: help clean dishes and you're yelling at me. That's new.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: So I went to my office. She went upstairs about
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: an hour later. She texts me. She goes, Hey, can
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: we talk a rompest moment? That means I'm buying in.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: It's a buy in. It's an offer. It's a peace offering. Hey,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I want to talk through something. Let it out. We're
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: not going to get into this tit for tat. We're
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: not fighting here. I just want to get it off
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: my chest. I process it. I just want to let
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: it out. So it's done. I said, sure. If I
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: buy into that, that means I do not get defensive.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: This is not where I start calling out and shoving
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: someone's face in it. This means I'm here to listen
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: to the venting. I'm here to listen to the letting
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: it out moment.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: So she comes down and she goes, Ellie, because I
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: got to tell you, I don't know what the hell
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: happened before. I realized that you were just asking to
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: clean dishes. In my head, I thought you were pointing
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: out dishes that I made dirty and you were calling
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: me out. That's Rompus. I'm so sorry. I now realize
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: what your intention was. We're good. Done. I didn't get
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: into what the hell is wrong with you? Why would
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you yell at me? No, it's like, okay, you had
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the courage to call a Rompus moment. Post yelling, screaming,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: making a mistake. I'm calling myself out and I'm going
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: to vent about it. And now we're done. So we
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: got the huddle and we got the Rompus moment. And
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I think those two things can really help repair And
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: it is just something that we really have to be
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: cognizant of that we do make mistakes. We're going to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: make mistakes. We're going to have repetitive conversations. We're going
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to get stuck in moments. But can I be honest
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: with the fact that I made a mistake and own
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: up to it and take accountability and be real with
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: the person that I might have hurt or might have
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: lost my cool up?
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, this is fantastic. Here's a topic that I
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: know a lot of people have struggled with that in
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: some way, shape or form. One spouse has lost trust
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of another spouse.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And there's a variety of reasons why they could have
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: lost trust with that spouse. So we don't need to
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: go into all those, but how I I've heard, I've
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: read that you can rebuild that kind of trust. Yeah.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: How can this couple rebuild trust after that has been broken?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So to me, it depends on which one, right?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: If we're talking affairs, that's a really hard thing to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: come back from. And I know Esther Perel talks about
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: it excessively on how to do that. And I give
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: kudos to anyone who was able to feel that loss
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: of the relationship and grief of feeling like you were
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: cheated on or an affair. And, you know, all that pain.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk more simple trust stuff.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Okay. Right.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: That's not my expertise. And I don't even want to
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: touch that. I'll get into the whole longer conversation and
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I think we can translate, we
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: can translate some of the stuff to it. The, the
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: simple trust of like, you forgot something. You, um, didn't
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: pay a bill on time or, uh, you said you
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: were going to do something and you got distracted and forgot.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I know I do that all the time. Um, and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: things like that. How can I trust you when you
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: say yes to doing something and then you let me
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: down or you forget? And now how can I ever
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: rely on you?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's having the conversation.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: This is all the time when I'm working with individuals.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Most people come to me for business stuff, but it's
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: funny because by the second or third call, these things
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: come up and I'm like, okay, I need to like
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: make connections here.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I love it. No, but I think the idea of like,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: if I can't rely on you, what am I relying
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: you for? What's the thing itself that you feel so
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: hurt by? That I didn't cook something right? That I left...
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I was five minutes late to pick up the kids.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I can't trust you anymore. Right? So to me, the
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: number one thing is you got to talk about the
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: expectation of what you are asking someone to do. If
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I expect you to fold the laundry and I ask
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: you to do it and you don't do it perfectly
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the way I want, there's no lack of trust there.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: You have your quirks and your ways of doing something.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Get over yourself. Or if you ask someone to do
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: something and they do it with their energy with their
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: personality and the task and the thing still gets done,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: that's what matters. The thing, not how it gets done,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that it gets done. If you want me to wash
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the dishes and I wash the dishes, but I don't
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: soak them first, but I wash them my way, the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: dishes are clean. If you end up wanting to go
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: do it yourself because you have your own things, if
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it's your burden, it becomes your responsibility. I'm sorry to
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: tell you that.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Fantastic. Yeah.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: If it's more of like a real trust issue that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I called you six times and you didn't pick up
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the phone and I thought something happened to you or
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: you left our kid or whatever, you know, things like
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that happen. It's more of, can I be understanding that
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: this stuff happens in your human and still care and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: love you anyway, because you're human and I'm going to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: make mistakes too. Just like you're going to make mistakes.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: So what small ways, not that you have to prove it.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: This is not a challenge. This is not a, um, oh,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I forgot the word I was going to say. I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: like challenges.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Challenges is that there's an opportunity to win an opportunity
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: to grow. We're not here.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Testing. We're not here to test anyone. Like we're not
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: going to leave something on the floor purposefully because we
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: had a conversation about cleaning up and being more cognizant
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: of it. And now I'm going to wait you out
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: till you don't do it. And then I'm going to
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: call you out and go, I put that there. What
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: kind of person does that? Testing someone you love? Hell no.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Don't do that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I think that happens though.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, all the time. That happens. All the time. Like
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the example I give is my wife loves to have
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: like water bottles like these, you know, like the Kirkland,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: you know, she has them by her bed. Some of
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: them are empty and some of them are not. I
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: can talk to her about, hey, when you go downstairs,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I can ask her, can you bring some downstairs? And
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: then she goes, yeah, I will. And I can keep
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: them there and leave them there and watch them with
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: anger and hatred in my heart. They're stupid water bottles.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Or I can take them downstairs myself. Or I can
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: let it go and grow up. So a lot of
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the trust things has to do with maturity of myself.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the trust things also has to
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: do how serious it is. If it's a trust in... Like, hey,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: do we need to talk about maybe putting things on
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: auto pay so that it isn't on your head and
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I don't get upset at you? It means that maybe
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I have to take on a little bit more because
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I care about that stuff more than you do. Not
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: that there's a problem with you or I'm better than you.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: It's that my mind, my vantage point, my perspective of
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the world is better in tune to those things. Not
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: that you suck and there's a problem with you, but
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: you are in tune to things that I'm not and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I'm in tune to things So how can we find
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: our skills and talk about things that we can mesh
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: together versus me just being pissed off or angry at
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you for not having the same viewpoint? There's a great
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: movie that a lot of people have not watched. I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: think it was in the early 2000s. It's called Vantage Point.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I reference it all the time. You seen it?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, most people have not seen this movie. I don't
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: even know who's in it. But the concept of the
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: movie is that there's like a terrorist attack in some
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Europe town. And the movie starts from one person's vantage point.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: goes to a certain point in the movie, rewinds and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: comes from the police officer, from the person, from the terrorists,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: from this, and then it all comes together at the end, right?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: It's a great way of doing the movie. But what
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I like to use that example is you have one
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: vantage point of the world and I have a different
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: vantage point of the world. It's not better or worse.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: It's that I'm not in your vantage point. So I
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: don't pay attention and see the things that you do.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was important to you. Okay, maybe
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: you've told me it was important, but it slipped my mind.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: And if it matters that much to you, can you
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: take it on and I'll take on other things that
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I am in tune to seeing and able to help
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and able to. So how can we be a better team?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to repairing, it's about creating that
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: space of honesty to talk about it. Hey, this really
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: upset me because I feel like you don't care. Not
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: what is wrong with you and why don't you do
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: this thing?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Why can't you get it together? It's more of, hey,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: when you don't do that thing, I feel like you
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: don't see me and care about my needs. Yeah. That's
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: a better way of saying that. So what can we
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: do for me to feel seen? And now that I'm
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: aware that it's about that, not about the task, I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: might care a little bit more than just do this thing.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I don't care about this thing. Oh, the person I
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: love is saying that it hurts their heart, that it
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: makes them feel like I don't care about them. I'll
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: probably pay more attention to that a little bit more
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and try a little harder because it's about their heart,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: not about the dishes, laundry, I don't know.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Whatever. Whatever the smoke is not the fire. So if
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: we've got and look, I love that you're giving these
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: very specific examples because so many of us have felt
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: these exact, exact scenarios or at least close to it before.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And it's nice to know that it's normal. That in
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: these relationships, it's normal. And the longer you're with someone, maybe,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: you know, I always like to look at the marriage
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: as something that you're climbing this mountain together and there's
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: ups and downs in the marriage. My hope is that,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you know, you can get through all of these ups
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: and downs and, you know, disagreements, arguments, hard trials, challenges, struggles,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: one person, the other person. whatever it is so that
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: when you get, if you fought hard enough and worked
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: hard enough, then you can get to the top of
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the mountain and you can see 360 degrees. And I
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: don't know when that comes in a relationship. But like
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: my vision of being able to visualize what your future
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: might look like as a couple. And then although you're
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: going downhill on the other side of the mountain, and
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: the hope is that you have a secure relationship, relationship
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: at this point where you've worked out some of those
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: insecurities if somebody's anxious so the others avoidant and you've
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: become more secure that's how you've gotten to the top
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: of the mountain now downhill doesn't mean you just slide
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: down and you're done because there's still ups and downs
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: yeah and hopefully your view is totally unique and different
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: now because you've already had that security so help us
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: to kind of know how do we become more secure
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: How do we, one, maybe recognize the insecurities that we
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: have in order to become more secure? And maybe some
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: who are listening have never even heard of an attachment style.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So maybe give that basic gist and then talk about it.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So attachment style is basically this idea by Bowlby, this
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: concept of how you relate to other people and the
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: inner feelings of around social skills and the people in
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: your life the attachment how you attack them so there's
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: the secure which means like when things go awry or
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: there's problems you are confident enough that you can figure
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: it out work together and get it done anxious is
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh the person hasn't texted me in three
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: hours uh they're they're they're there's an affair ah right
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: it's this push and pull nervousness That every little thing
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: has to be read into. Oh, what do they mean
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: by that? Not that. Oh, they said that word, not
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: that word. And last week they did this and that.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: It's that analytical, overwhelming anxiety about the relationship. Avoidant is
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this idea of when things get a little too hard
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: or difficult, you run, you hide. It's too hard. I
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: give up. Broad strokes here on those. When it comes
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: to security and secure attachment, you know, I hear a
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: lot of like, well, you know, I don't know why
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: they love me. kind of things like those statements. Um,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: one thing I say very often is the fact that
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: someone relationships, like especially marriage is one of the only
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: relationships that you really choose to be connected to someone, right?
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Usually when you're friends with people, you, you happen to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: be in similar circles and similar likes and dislikes. And
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're a kid, you like yellow, I
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: like yellow. We're best friends, right? That's usually what it's
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: like with kids. I wish we could still do that
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: as adults or family, right? You're born into a family.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: They're part of your family. You don't really choose that.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Relationship is an active thing that you get to do
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: every day. It is a choice. So the fact that
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: someone's choosing you should give you enough security in the relationship.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: That's not easier said than done, but that's a really
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: confident thing that you can rely on. This person keeps
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: waking up every day, looking at me for the ugliness,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: the good, the bad, you know, my worst day and
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: my best day and is willing to say, I'm willing
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: to keep working at this. with you, for you, for us.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: That gives me a lot of confidence. The idea of
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: the secure attachment with anxiety, with anxious and avoidant, it
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: is a long road of honesty and hard work with
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: yourself to teach yourself that with this person, you are okay.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Not the other people that have hurt you in the past.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: So if you are actually okay and everything is safe
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and you actually have a good foundation or a commitment
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: to a better foundation, That is the hard work of
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: reminding yourself that this person's choosing me. Everything's okay. I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: got this. We got this. We're doing the work versus
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: just saying, I give up or I'm not going to try. Right.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: It's like constant choice and constant work. I love the,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the example of the mountain. Cause to me, I was
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: thinking when you were saying it was like, sometimes I
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: lead and I'm, I'm pulling you up when you're struggling
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: and the other, and sometimes we're walking together. And sometimes the,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: where my, where I'm walking, there's some rocks that are
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: a little loose and sometimes there's more sick, But in
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the end, we still get there together. And I think
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: going down, it's a lot easier to hold hand in
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: hand when you're going down because there's not as much
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: fight to get up the mountain. And I think the
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: vision that we have is usually when we have grandkids,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like we look back and go, look at
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: all the work we did. Look at this.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I think that's why everyone loves being a grandparent because
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: the kid, you know, people would rather skip having kids
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: and just go right to grandkids because you're able to
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: sit back and look at all the effort you've had.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: And again, to realize that it's never perfect and it's
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: relationships aren't magical like Disney. They are meaningful and fulfilling
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: and wonderful when the effort's there and you make the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: effort and work together to create something. My parents are married,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I think, 48 years.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Right? Their relationship's not perfect and beautiful. It's committed. It's there.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: There's jokes. There's honesty. There's hardships. There's years of crying
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and happiness and joy. I do not believe they have
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: a perfect marriage because I don't think anyone does. No.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: But if you believe that this vision, that it's going
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: to be this magical, we're going to be best buddies
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: all the time and laugh and get out of your
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: head about that. And I think something that also tricks
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: us so that I'm sure you feel a lot of
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: times or whatever. I think that social media is a
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: really bad thing for relationships because we look at, you know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: these TV shows, these reality shows. We look at these
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: couples and things like that online of the videos, not
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the pictures. Share pictures if you want of your family. Beautiful. Awesome.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Why not? but the video like of the real is like, Oh,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: we're so happy and everything's so magical. Amber, someone had
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: to set up the camera to take the video. So like,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: just be cognizant that we're not being tricked into them,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: that we have to be another type of couple. You
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: can be so fulfilling and wonderful in the couple that
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: you have and have such a fulfilling relationship with doing
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the right work with the right skills to build that
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: relationship together, not be like someone else.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Cause that's, you know, I, I love that you brought
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: up your parents. You know, I think my parents are
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: going on their 54th wedding anniversary.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: And you know what I mean? This is just special, right?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: To be able to have some, and by all means,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: just like every relationship, they've had their hard times too.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: But it's been such a beautiful thing to watch. They
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: actually moved to Utah part-time to be with me and
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: the kids. And in this last year, it has been
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: a game changer because I didn't have them for 20
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: years of my adult life. I never had them in
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: the same state. So now to have them here, they're, they're,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: you know, with the kids, they're getting to know my
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: kids at a completely new level now, which I am
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: so incredibly grateful for.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: It's a blessing.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And, It's a huge blessing. And I love the example
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that they're setting for my kids. Because one of the
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: hardest things for me, you know, going through divorce is
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: that I never wanted my kids to think that the
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: eternal relationship of a marriage was just that easy to break.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: And that it was, you know, a divorce is just like, whatever. No,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: like I, I, I believe in the covenantal relationship and
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: a marriage that comes from God between a man and
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: a woman. And, and, and so it was one of my,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: my fears that these kids would not necessarily continue to
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: know how important that is and that it's that they
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: can have that, that they can have the 60 plus year,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: you know, relationship. And that because their mom and I
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: didn't pan out that way, that they're doomed for that
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: same future. And so I hope as they're watching my
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: parents and their other grandparents interact, that they can see
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: that that's still a possibility, even if their mom and
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: And just because this relationship didn't work doesn't mean another
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: one won't. And it doesn't mean that you as a
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: person will not talk to your kids when the time
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: is right. to explain that it isn't just an overnight decision.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: And here are the things to make a commitment actually
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: work when I couldn't with that one. But it doesn't
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: mean there was, it was like a, just a flick
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: of a wrist. And I was like, oh, we're done.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: But it's something. And I think that divorce isn't the
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: end of the world. And I think that divorce has reasons.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of kids know that
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: a lot better than we give them, you know, props to.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean it's not hard. It's a huge challenge.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot to learn from it
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: and to teach your kids when they get older and
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: ready to have relationships, what the lessons you've learned on
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: what it means to have a, I don't want to
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: say better, but a healthier outcome and a quality outcome.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: And that divorce doesn't mean that you're a failure, but
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: life keeps going and you can still have a beautiful life.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: But it also means that these are some things that
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I can learn and teach you as a mentor. And
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: as a father, you have now that perspective that you know,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: can really teach them a lot more as well. Yeah.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I have to say, although I wouldn't wish
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: divorce upon anyone, not even my worst enemy, right? It's,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I have to have some gratitude for the lessons that
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I have learned through the process.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Because of the deep, the deep dives that I don't
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: know if I would have before done internally and, and
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: to even visualize and see the weaknesses or the struggles
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: or the challenges or even, what I learned in childhood
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: and how it affected an adult romantic relationship that I
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: can now work in process to then in the future,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: have a much stronger, healthier relationship. And so I, I
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: have to have some level of gratitude and know that
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: God's hand has been in this process for me. But
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: if you could help, there's quite a few who are
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: either widowed or divorced that are part of my, you know,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: my audience.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: For those that are on their own right now, can
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: you give them, whether it's a source of hope or
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: a tactical tip, how do they prepare themselves? Because, again,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: they can't change anyone else. How do they prepare themselves
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: for that future relationship they're longing for?
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So, I say a lot to a lot of couples,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: whether it's a second relationship that they're about to have
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: or they're in a second relationship, don't compare anything to
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the last one.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's so hard, though. I know.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: You're not trying to recreate anything. So an issue that
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: one person has, person B, does not mean it's going
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: to end the same way as person A did. Person
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: B struggles or person B struggles, even if they have
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: a hint of the person A's things. But you are
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: now prepared to deal with it smarter and better. You
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: are stronger and you are now more mature and you've
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: gone through the ringer to know how to handle it
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: for yourself. And you're not trying to recreate your life.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: You're trying to start a new life with someone else.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So you got to give them that opportunity. You got
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: to give the second person B or C or D,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, the opportunity that they get to prove
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to you who they are right here, right now, like
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: the blinders on that they are who they are, not
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: the past thing. So I'm going to use like something
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: from like IFS therapy. right? Internal family systems.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Anyone has an IFS.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. So the thing I like, no bad parts, right?
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Everything has served us in some way or another. It
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: might not serve me today. So that relationship, relationship A
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: served you to teach you something. Relationship B is not
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: going to be A. So you got to thank relationship
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: A and go, thank you so much for your service.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you and all that you've taught me, all
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: that you've hurt me with, all that I've learned from it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: And now I'm going to look at person B and
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: take this for what it is here today. Not because
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: of person A, but person B has to give their props,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: have their opportunity to be who they are to you
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: versus like a ripple effect or a shadow of person A.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Because all that does is hold you back and hold
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: them back in the relationship because you're trying to like
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: plop person A's relationship into the B. And you got this.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: It's just about taking it day by day, Whatever comes
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: up for you that might feel scary or worrisome or
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: has that little hint of, uh-oh, like the back of
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: your neck or the hair in the back of your
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: neck starts going on, talk to them about it. You know,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: I've been hurt before. I'm a little worried. This is
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: scaring me. I'm concerned. What do we do about it?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Not because of that and like I don't want to repeat,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: but like this is freaking me out a little bit
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: and I'm a little worried about ABC. Can we talk
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: about it? And just be honest. So give them their opportunity.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Don't try to recreate something. And then be honest with
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: them so that you don't fall into similar patterns.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Man, because that is hard. It is hard to think
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: about the past and that some things may occur in
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: the same way.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: That just makes you pay attention a little more. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: This is so, honestly, this, and I know you could
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: go on for hours and hours. You wrote the dang
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: book on this, right? So I'm just so grateful that
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: you've been willing to, and so tactfully shared true principles
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: with steps that are reasonable for any of us listening
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: to start implementing into our lives now. So, you know,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: I want to, I want to be able to finish
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: off and then we'll make sure people know where they
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: can come and find you and your book. you're looking
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: at of all the people you've worked with after writing
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: the book, um, you're distilling it down to this one
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: phrase they can remember. And I know this is so hard,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: but there's one phrase that they're walking away from this
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: podcast and they're repeating in their minds over and over again.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: What is that phrase? It's two parter. So it's, you can,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: don't forget that. You can always, you just keep trying,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: find a different Avenue. You can, and if you pick
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: my book read the last chapter on that because it's
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: like a heartfelt story with my teacher in third grade
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: but you can do it don't say you can't that's
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: not allowed. It's not allowed in this language. You can.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I can. We will. We will figure it out. And
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the second thing with that is I will learn. I
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: can and I will learn. Remember I said before, it's
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: a skill. So don't give up just because it doesn't
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: come naturally. Don't give up because it's hard. You can
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: and it's a skill, so learn it. And if you're
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: committed to doing it and you really want to, stop waiting. Yeah.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Just do it. Go for it. Give it your best.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Ah, Elliot, thank you. I love it. Okay, where can
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: people find you? Where's the best place for them to go?
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: You can go to my website, elliewinesteinlcsw.com. You can go
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: to Instagram, elliewinestein underscore lcsw. DM me, email me, reach out.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I promise I answer all my emails and my DMs.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not that famous yet. And if I do become
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: famous yet, I'll have an assistant do it. But until
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: that point, please just ask your questions. Don't get up
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: on yourself and keep trying and make it work the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: best way you can. Because I love it. We all
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: deserve a beautiful relationship.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's so awesome. And if you guys, you know,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: mentioned that you came from Bubba, that way he knows
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that you guys were listeners of this podcast.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll give you a deal.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, hey, use the name, code name Bubba and you'll get,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: you know, Ellie will help you out there. Seriously, thank
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: you for being so open, for taking the time and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: like gifting us with your knowledge, your wisdom, your experience.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: And for everyone here listening, thank you for listening this far.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: If you've made it to the end here, you were
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: truly interested. This resonated in some way. So if you could,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: please share it. If it hit you in the right spot,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: it's going to affect someone else. So please share that.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Post about it on socials. Share it to family and friends.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And we're so grateful to have you. I'm your host,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Bubba Page. So grateful to be here. And let's all
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: become exactly who God meant us to be. All right, Ellie.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: We'll talk soon.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.