Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / My biggest challenge as a woman in financial planning - Susie Laws

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My biggest challenge as a woman in financial planning - Susie Laws · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Susie Laws.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Susie is the co-owner and director at Fiducia Wealth Management.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's a chartered financial planner and a fellow of the PFS.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's also two times winner at the Professional Advisor Women in Financial Advice Awards, winning Financial Advisor of the Year.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well done, Susie.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So today we talk about her career starting out as a power planner, working all the way up to becoming a co-owner of her own firm.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Something I don't think she ever thought that she would do.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about what part luck plays in that, but also what part her own ambition and drive and determination played within that role.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about being a female within the profession around having children at quite a young age and what impact that had on her career.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about well-being in the workplace and really what makes a great culture within a company.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoyed today.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed talking to Susie.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's a breath of fresh air.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you follow her on LinkedIn.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Susie, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Very sunny day today in Bristol.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing where you are?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely lovely and thank you for having me, uh Sam.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's sunny today here in Dedham as well.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think it's sunny all over the place at the moment, which is fantastic to finally after those long months of winter.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Devon in the sunshine is uh quite a magnificent place, isn't it?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's beautiful.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you what, Susie, classic.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We should have pressed record about half an hour ago, shouldn't we?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: We've been having a fantastic chat about all kinds of things, and then realised that none of it were recording.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So uh anyway, we can start again.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favorite, it's one of my favorite things about hosting a podcast is how quickly you can get into a very deep conversation with somebody because obviously you're entering into being recorded and we're thinking about what we're saying, and we want to cut through the bullshit really, and we want to get straight to the point of what we're here to talk about and how we can connect with both each other, but also with the audience and inspire those listeners about a fantastic career in financial planning.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen you on social media, I've seen how you share on social media very authentically and open, and it drew me in.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm also very keen always to be speaking to females within the financial planning profession that have gone through the career all the way up to becoming um a director and owner within the business.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we need more female leaders within the profession.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We need these women to be standing up and talking about the profession and being honest and authentic.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're a breath of fresh air when I see you on LinkedIn.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Which is why I wanted to bring you on.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always happy to, you know, to talk about my journey, my experiences.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's as we sort of said earlier when we were having a chat, you know, I think there's a lot of people who, in particular in our profession, feel that you know, we have to have this perfect image, this perfect life is perfect, everything is perfect.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that, to be honest, is probably society in general when you look across social media and you look across particularly certain generations uh in social media.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that's real, and I think the reality is it's it's not, we all know it's not.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And by talking about our experiences, talking about our journeys, actually, everybody will be going through elements of it, and that's not to say that what I've been through in in different parts of my career will resonate with every single person.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And some people might quite frankly turn around and say, Well, that's complete nonsense, I've not had to deal with any of that, which you know fantastic for them.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even if one small element of one bit of what I'm explaining to people resonates, then hopefully they can go, oh, okay, well, I'm in this position right now, but actually there is a there is there is hope, there is a way through this, and it's about building resilience.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a I'm a big believer in resilience and that we all have challenges.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just about how you how you find a way out of them, really.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, how you overcome them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think being able to share so honestly and authentically, especially someone like yourself on the outside looking in, you know, charter, financial planner, running your own business, someone thinks, well, what a success she's been.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's got it all.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and someone might think they really truly understand some of the struggles that you can go through throughout your career.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we touched on it before we we were pressed record, but you know, when you and I've done this, you know, I started out as a recruitment consultant, started making loads of money, took me ages, and then all of a sudden someone offered me 50% of a business.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know what?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take that 50% because I'd love to be a business owner.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Part of me thinks, just why didn't you just stay being a recruitment consultant and earning a shed load of money um for longer?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as I became that business owner, wow, did my life change?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did my stress levels change?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it became a real responsibility to be better in my eyes in what I was.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was tough, it was hard.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of those things be careful what you wish for within your career.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be a manager because I want to be at the prestige of managing people, because managers can no one sees actually what happens to the manager when they go home, how stressful it is to manage people.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I found it incredibly tough to manage.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sharing that, talking about it, and recognising what part of your skill set is the bit you should really focus on also gives people a sense of relief.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh God, right.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not a manager, you know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps I'm more of an entrepreneurial marketer, you know, and that's my strength within the business.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Being a business owner can be quite lonely in ways because um, and you know, I've had this conversation with my MD Gordon, who's my um business partner now.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, with co-shareholders, co-owners.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he I think before I came along, before I joined the business, he in some ways found that quite lonely because you're shouldering a big burden.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it I think historically there was always that view that well, if you're in management or if you're a director, or if you're the owner, you have to sort of put some distance between yourself and the team.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe in that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I believe, you know, I will go out there when we we did an office refit um a few months ago on the main building, and you know, I was over there smashing up desks with the with the rest of them because I believe in getting stuck in and cracking on and you know, we we go out together, we do things together.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm their boss, but equally I I'm one of them, you know, I'm one of the team, and I very much believe that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you are right, there is that extra responsibility that you take home at the end of the day and at weekends, and you know, whereas some people in their roles obviously can get home at sort of half five and turn the phone off and not think about it till 9 a.m.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: the next morning.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: As a business owner, you're always thinking about it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You'll you don't switch off from the business because you can't, it's people's livelihoods.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's clients' livelihoods, it's um it's the team's livelihoods, and you want obviously good outcome for people.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you're always thinking about you're always thinking about the future as well.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: You are, you spend a lot of your time in the future thinking, and you've got to be very careful with that because future thinking creates anxiety.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always thinking in the future about where am I going, what am I doing?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I'm looking at other other companies around me, like they're doing it better than I am.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was always kind of thinking ahead all the time.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you do that, time flies really quickly, but it can also make you quite anxious because you're not really in the moment appreciating what it is you're doing and what you're building.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, but that thing like people have that problem anyway.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I was having a conversation with a colleague, and I was explaining to him, it's not about the end result.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the end result is great, and you've got to obviously, you know, have goals, is having a goal is a fantastic thing, but you've got to learn to enjoy the journey because ultimately that is all of the life is is a series of journeys.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're always fixating on when I get there, I'll be happier, or when I get that promotion, I'll be happier, when I become a director, I'll be happier.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: You never actually stop to pause and actually enjoy the now.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, sometimes it's easier than others to enjoy the now, depending on what's going on.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's that's something that's a society.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: We we're always in sometimes in such a rush that we actually don't pause and look at what we've already achieved.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important as well.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree 100%.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And being just for just bringing in even an element and an okay, a bit hippie now, but even just bringing in like an element of gratitude on a daily basis.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I turn to gratitude as soon as I wake up, as soon as my eyes open, I go through what I'm grateful for and what I have.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I often sit in gratitude around my business and the people that work within my business.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And without them, I I wouldn't have a business.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, I must invest my present thinking into being grateful that these humans that also have their own aspiration goals and dreams and problems, stresses are joining me on my journey to build something spectacular.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that is love, isn't it?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like then it fills you with love and gratitude, and then it gets you going through the day.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think gratitude is like one of the things as a business owner or as an employee, anybody should really factor in their day because once you build an attitude of gratitude, it becomes a habit and it becomes like taking a pill that makes you feel better.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you could pill it gratitude, you'd feel you'd get me a multi-billionaire.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um absolutely.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I completely agree.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's just taking stock of where you've come.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, we've had some challenging times over the last couple of years, like every business with COVID and the various challenges that that's thrown up.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, as I said to my dear a number of times, if we stop and pause and look back on where we were three or four years ago as a business, we would be delighted to be where we are now as a business.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it, yes, that journey is never smooth, it's never a nice, easy, straight line, and you, you know, you make a plan and you have to adjust it.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: But that's just again, that's life.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um but ultimately you can you pause, you look back, you can actually see where you come.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is really important.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than always focusing on where you want to be, sometimes it's you just need to pause and look back from where you began.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And let's do that today.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a little look back into your uh career history and um because you just certainly didn't start off as the co-owner of Fiducia Wealth Management.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: There was a journey.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think as well, when I look over your your career history, um, you're in the as a uh someone coming into the profession, it's often looked as administration to power planning to financial advice as being this kind of formulated route that would give somebody a really good grinding within the profession and the best um route really is becoming a good financial advisor because you understand the whole sort of area of the business.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But also being a female and coming from a very female-dominated role such as power planning, yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've then gone from power planning, you're not stayed in it, which are you know can often happen in administration and and and power planning roles.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Females feel like they can't step up.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've had these conversations with a lot of power planners, between the Sean Davies Cole, who runs the power planner club, and this is a a theme.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you've gone through that, you've you've broken through the power planning, you stepped outside of that into financial advice and eventually um becoming this co-owner of Fiducia Wealth.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So let's look back then.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you get into the profession?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: How did you actually step into it?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I don't think there's many, I mean, maybe there are, but I don't think there's many people who I've met in the profession who kind of woke up at 16 and thought, I know what I want to be when I grow up, I want to be a financial planner.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there are a few, but most people generally fall into it later in life or through, you know, when they've um looking at opportunities that are available to them at a given time.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I fall more into the latter, you know, category.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at university, I I was always one of those people that was relatively good at most things academically.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a brag.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just mean I wasn't, you know, I had friends who were fantastic at science, you know, and you always knew they were going to go of me something in sciences, or fantastic at English and wanted to be a journalist.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was always kind of pretty good at English, pretty good at maths, pretty good at most things, but not fantastic in any one area.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was great, but it meant that there was no for me, I always thought, well, what do I want to do?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want to be?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I like people, I've always enjoyed people.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always had an interest in economics and maths, which is probably dates back to my upbringing and my family.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was one of these people who was uh he had some um shares in uh some of the banks and you know when the debutalizations and things had come about British gas and all these other things.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and he was always checking back in the day CFACs to see what they were doing.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that that kind of has an impact on you in your formative years.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he, you know, finance was something that was talked around our dining table.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was quite lucky in that sense.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was probably always in the back of my brain, even though I didn't really realise it at the time.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to university, I got my degree, I considered becoming a pilot.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted at one stage I thought about joining the Metropolitan Police.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was like, you know, you you name it, I probably considered it at one point or another, law, something I considered.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was really when I graduated university, I thought, okay, well, let's be a bit realistic.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: What jobs are actually available and you know, what opportunities do I have?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd have been approached about an accountancy, I had an opportunity there.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, accountancy always seemed a little bit more dry because it's a case of, again, I'm sure some accountants out there would not disagree with this statement, but it's it's more about looking back at what's happened and obviously dealing with the numbers.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I then came across an opportunity for a trainee paraplanner role, and I'd never even heard of a power planner.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd barely heard of a financial advisor, and you know, I think like most people, um, the historical reputation of our profession has not always been that great.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you think financial advisor, but probably even back then it wasn't necessarily something that was um a positive in terms of a profession, but it interested me, I'll be honest.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the I you know I looked into it more, and for me it was about the future, it's about planning, it's about helping people achieve their goals.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually thought that really appealed to me.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It had a nice mix for me of of people and um you know, numbers and dealing with um actual facts and and and hard, you know, there was some brains involved, I suppose, as well.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a challenge there.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the more I looked into it, it was the more it appealed.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I basically got my first role from university, and that was with a really small firm who I don't think are even still today trading.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be blunt in some ways, it taught me about not what to do in financial advice.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: The advisor in question um was ex-bank and very much commission-based, and he had his mode of operandate was was largely rebroking investment bonds for people.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think I ever saw him advise on a pension or you know, he is what our profession has moved away from, thankfully, with obviously the increase in uh education requirements with RDR level four.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it was it was an education.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: It it I got my at the time certificate in financial planning, um, obviously, uh subsequently been superseded by diploma, and obviously I've now um got my advanced qualifications, but it gave me grounding, it gave me some experience, which allowed me to then progress to um uh another firm which was much larger and I would say much more professional in the way things were done.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that was again as a sort of admin power planner role.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was there for six and a half years at that firm, and it was it was it was brilliant, it gave me a fantastic grounding in um in the industry, in the profession.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a huge amount from some very, very, very good advisors.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was also a relatively stable entity, whereas the first company, being a small company, but like was just a little bit less so.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that was at that stage in my life, I was having, I'd have my um eldest son um at 24.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So for me it was quite nice to be somewhere that I felt was secure and stable.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result of having my eldest, I went part-time and they supported me with that, that was fine.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I then had my youngest son at when I was 27 when I was still there, but I all the while carried on doing my exams.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when I joined that firm, they'd always said to me that they saw me as potentially being their first female financial advisor.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was potentially my journey.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But me having my eldest really put that on the back burner because obviously I then wanted to go part-time, and they were always very willing to consider me as an advisor, but they wanted me to be full-time, was the request, which I was not willing to do at that stage in life.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was something effectively put on the back burner.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I carried on doing my diploma, I got my full diploma, started on the advanced qualifications.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, for me, there was no real clear path to progression because short of going full-time, I was gonna have to effectively accept I was gonna stay in the power planning role.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I always say to people, it's a case of working hard and being patient.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you do those two things and you know where you want to get to, you will ultimately get there.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes you need a bit of luck, um, I'll be honest.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was probably 29, so I've been there about six years.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had another conversation with them about advisor because for me, I felt it was now the right time.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I felt I was at that point where I'd you know had basically eight years in the profession learning, absorbing knowledge, gaining qualifications.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was about two exams off chartered at the time.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt that I had that ability to move forward, and they were very open, basically said unless I was willing to go to four, four and a half days, there was there was no route for me.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my youngest at the time was only maybe two.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I'm willing to go to three, three and a half, but I'm not willing to go at that stage to go to four.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and on that basis, there was no opportunity.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I I made the hard decision, but effectively I there wasn't a route for me there, which you know, you could look, I look back on now and think, well, that's not how I would have approached it as a business or as a business owner.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: But they're, I guess, different firm, different views, uh less flexible in their approach.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the world thankfully has moved on to a degree.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when people say to me, What's the biggest challenge I've faced as a woman?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's never been that people have said, I can't be an advisor because I'm a woman.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's I've never had those words said.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: What I have found is that people have sometimes been less keen on me progressing, clearly less keen on me progressing to an advisor role because I was part-time.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think for our profession is something that we need to look at.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: This fleck, you know, you know, reality is women tend to be part-time workers more than men.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: That it's changed to a degree, but still, if you look at the demographics, it tends to often be the women who take time out of their careers to be at home more in those early years when their children are young.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that for me, I think, as a woman has been the biggest challenge.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not being a woman, it was being part-time.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was lucky that um I was approached actually on LinkedIn by um another advisory firm.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they said, you know, the gentleman there, he saw my qualifications, he could see what I'd got, saw my experience, and said, you know, do you want to have a chat?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And said, Well, absolutely happy to have a chat.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we did, and I explained to him what I was looking for, which ideally would be a training advisor or advisor role on an initially three-day week.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, that's absolutely fine, just give you less clients.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, Oh, this is refreshing.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody's not turning around to me and saying that I can't do this because I'm part-time.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, clients come first, but ultimately you always have a team supporting you behind the scenes.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always very willing to make sure that I was checking I was on my day off, make sure there wasn't anything that needed dealing with that minute.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I would, you know, I was always willing to be flexible around it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just needed someone who was also willing to be flexible with me.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a refreshing change.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I I left, I handed in my notice.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's always funny as well that when you do that, all of a sudden the rhetoric changes.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I told them I was leaving, and all of a sudden it's, oh, well, we can give you that and we can do this, and we can do that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, I've been asking you for it for two years, and you can say no.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I I never want us to be that firm now of the issue.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've always said to people, I want to recognise and I want to feel people can come and talk to me.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if they want to progress, we will never hold them back.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's not to say that we can't, we can always progress in the time scale they want because it depends on business need and everything else, but we will endeavor to do our best and we won't deliberately hold people back because of the hours they work or their gender or any other, you know, uh area of their life.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that I think is it was probably a if I hadn't had that opportunity, would I be where I am today?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Potentially, but it would have taken a lot longer because I'd have had to be wait till I was willing to go full time.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: What I would what I would add to that piece there is the um evolution of working hours that we're starting to now see brought on really a lot quicker due to COVID.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And how people are still able to fulfill a workload within reduced hours.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: This myth that being attracted to 45, 50 hours a week to be able to do with the a a proper job is bollocks.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Pardon my French.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen COVID.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, clients generally, you know, they want to meet you, they probably want to meet you in those hours, but you can still work around those hours and be very productive.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think where you came up against a barrier to your career progression is an area where women are worried about their career progression by wanting to have a family.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again having more women within directorship roles, board level positions, leadership roles, because I bet that firm that had the problem was probably predominantly male, male.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: When you looked at the partnership, it was a partnership, but it was predominantly middle-aged white men being partly blunt.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um they want they want people within a certain period of time within the office.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't do that, then you've got to be part-time.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And becoming it's not a conversation around, well, how could you work?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: What hours could you do?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: What level of workload could you could you how many clients could you manage?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really an educated conversation where it's like, well, okay, great.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get you on the route of becoming a trainee, let's drip, feed you some client activity as and when you can.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's upskill you.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because I guarantee you, if they would have done that and seeing that you had that drive within you to be an advisor, and they actually just even gently nourished it, you would be in a complete, you might even still be there because you might well have been happy to say, Well, I'll take that on board because there's a compromise around where how I want to live my life, but there's also business needs.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's work around that on a flexible basis.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this rigid kind of career, um, these rigid um job descriptions, if you like, rob job profiles, they're just doing damage to the growth of firms because they're not allowing this evolution of flexibility.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And flexibility breeds happy workplace, but also breeds creativity and um growth.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: People move forward when they're allowed to do a little bit more, but the business moves forward for that very reason as well.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, their idea of flexible working was allowing people to come in.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you sled to be there between 10 a.m.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: and 4 p.m., but you could potentially come in a little bit earlier and leave a little bit earlier, or it wasn't really flexible working as we now see it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it ultimately for me and my career, it's probably leaving was probably absolutely the right thing.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I lived ultimately on that firm and good terms.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew I could have gone back if I wanted to.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Equally, I've always had the view try not to go back unless you absolutely have to, in terms of you want to move forward.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's you know, in life.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I, for me in my career, I think leaving was ultimately the right decision for me because it enabled me to move into a new firm, you know, fresh, where again, sometimes if you stay where you've been for a long period of time, then you can always to some extent, even not always intentionally, but you wouldn't maybe always get treated as the paraplanner that became an advisor or the admin girl that is now an advisor.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas by going in fresh into a new firm, you kind of went in, I went in as a trainee advisor.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was Susie the training advisor, not Suzy the paraplanner.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And for me that was quite refreshing as well.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it gave massive opportunity for me, you know.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Within um, you know, I was there two years, and in that time I was bringing in as much income as some of my full-time um male, female counterparts.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the employer, in fairness to him at the time, actually turned around and said, Well, look, you're you're bringing in the same numbers, I'm gonna give you your full-time equivalent salary, even though you're I still only don't expect you to do more than three days you're doing.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that again is a very progressive thing to do because uh he was effectively saying to me, You're working bloody hard, you're achieving good things, keep it up, and I'm gonna reward you for it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was, you know, it you again, you don't often see that in our profession.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I had to work hard for it, and I did work hard.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was rewarded and it was recognised.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So those were two very good years for me in a lot of ways.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: They were challenging, don't get me wrong.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, it's learning, and I always say to people, power planning and advising are very different things.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Being a good paraplanner does not necessarily mean you're being a good advisor, or vice versa.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you need to have a good technical knowledge and branding as an advisor, ideally, but you also need to be able to deal with people because it's so much more about uh people and really getting to underneath people's skin in terms of finding out what they're wanting, their objectives, and you have you have to be able to work with people and listen to people.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the two skills aren't always aligned.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can be a very good power planner and not necessarily have those other skills.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but equally, you don't often know until you try.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I always said when I was wanting to make that leap, I didn't know if I was going to become advisor and hate it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I could have absolutely hated it for all I knew because I hadn't done it.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I would like it, but there was no guarantee there for me.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, I was grateful to be given the opportunity, and as it happens, I did enjoy it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of then making the move to Fiducia, it was I had, I was at a sort of juncture in my career, I suppose, where I could have stayed where I was and similar to what you were saying early on about um, you know, when you're a quick result and earning good money, you could have stayed there, but then you had the opportunity to join something as a potentially become a business owner.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I had a similar scenario come up where um I I've known Gordon and John at Fiducia for um, I don't know, probably 18 months by that point.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think we just met at a networking event.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like most of my career changes have come about through meeting people and getting out there and talking to people, not necessarily by um you know recruitment consultants, sorry, fam, or actively looking.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been opportunities that have come about.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um John was uh the majority shareholder in Faducia and was looking at potentially a path to retirement.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Gordon was a co-shareholder and director of Fiducia.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the John, as I say, was looking at starting to take that path onto retirement.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: So he was wanting to bring on another advisor, they want to bring on another advisor to start taking on some of his clients with a view to if it worked, joining the leadership team as director.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then potentially there was this possibility of an MBO in the future if it you know wasn't given, it wasn't a certainty if it if things worked.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I chose to walk away from a position um the firm was at where I was earning well.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I as I say, I'd been recognised and rewarded, but at the same time, for me, this was a whole new level of being able to actually shape something and build something.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um how I felt it should be done.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not to say I know everything, so I clearly don't, and I'm still learning every day.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: But every place I've worked has taught me both good points about how to run a business and how also some points that I feel you shouldn't run a business.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, this was the opportunity to finally be at that table to start shaping some of these things and making some real changes.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Were you were you always, as you were in the roles, were you always building your own proposition, if you like, how you would do things if you ran the show or if you were the director of your own business?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So did you and the way I'm kind of trying to get at here is that more often than not, some people sit within their roles for a long period of time because they perhaps don't have that ambitious entrepreneurial spark that makes them want to progress and I don't know, gain more.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they take the experience, they don't take the experience to want to improve upon it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just trying to get into your mindset.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always somebody who was always thinking how you would do something better or improve something?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And is that the thing that's driven you forward throughout your career and giving you the confidence to take the risks to leave companies for new opportunities, to network, to find something?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because you said, oh, sometimes you get lucky.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think we make our own luck by being out there, interested and engaged.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're you're probably right.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think for me, I've always been somebody who has an interest in how things work for a start, be it you know, businesses, be it financial planning.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I've always been quite opinionated.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think I've always um been quite happy to kind of absorb and learn.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And those few, those, those six, seven years, those formative years when I was um in admin and power planning, I I would sit back and go, why are we doing things this way?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was an environment company I worked at, although very professional, wasn't really one that was geared up to employee feedback.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't really, they had a partnership.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be blunt.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: The partnership didn't really understand a lot about how a BLIFA world worked anyway, because a lot of the partners weren't in that section, they were in insurance for accountancy.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I always felt there's a slight disconnect as a business, and it and I didn't always understand why decisions were made that you know, it wasn't my place necessarily to understand those decisions because I'm sure they had good reason for them.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I've always, I guess, strived, I've always been willing to contribute, I've always been willing to participate.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I've also probably had quite a strong moral um compass, I suppose, for one better word.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So occasionally when I saw things that I didn't like for different reasons, again, that that's noted away.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I go, that's not what I want to be, that's not the person I want to be, that's not the business owner I want to be.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, you know, as an administrator or power planner of 29, never did I think that by 35 I would be, you know, a shareholder of business.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was just not, it wasn't something that was ever, you know, a feasible um path because there was no route there.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: But equally, I believed that an opportunity would come along, but for something that I enjoyed and something I wanted to do.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been willing, as I say, to contribute to those discussions and I've always been willing to um have a say.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think again, people shouldn't be afraid to have their say, they shouldn't be afraid to put their opinions forward.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: They may get ignored.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, some employers will absolutely not take on employee feedback.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been the opposite now, and one of the things I say at Fiducia is if you think we're doing something and it's seems stupid, come and talk to me.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: I might be able to explain to you the reason why we're doing it and the fact that actually it's not stupid, and it might be an area you don't understand.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Equally, I might go, actually, you're right, that is really stupid, and we might be able to change it and improve it.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I don't have monopoly on good ideas, neither does Gordon.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: The team have got ideas and we want them to feed those into us.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um ultimately we have the responsibility to make decisions, but we want their input.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that because go back to the fact that you have an opinion.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But not only do you have an opinion, it's not like my opinion is God.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm, you know, it's my way or the highway.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have an opinion because you like to engage in conversation that opens up uh improvement and that you value the people around you and their opinions of how they're doing their jobs and the perspective that they have on the business and how it's interpreted.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because different people in different roles see things very differently.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: They do, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it is about that open, honest, uh, transparent communication within a business that allows people again to feel a part of it, and they should feel part of the growth of it because they are, that their opinion actually matters, but also that there is this feeling of removing any kind of fear around confrontation of being able to express one's opinion without being judged or belittled.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think culturally that is a hot pot of creativity that takes a business further than one dictatorship who says it's his or her way or the highway.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's the very old-fashioned view, isn't it?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: That this is, you know, I'm the boss, therefore you do what I say.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, they may do what you say, but they probably won't stay.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because they don't feel value, they don't feel they've got an opinion.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, it's the same thing, people do business with people they like in most areas of the world.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same with employees.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: People employees will work harder for a boss that they respect and like ideally, than one they don't.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you you can try and rule by fear, but you as soon as your back's turned, they'll be off doing something else, or they'll be looking for a new job.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I I never believed as that as a solution.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and, you know, I think business owners who try that or who try the them and us, you know, again, I've hated them and us in our profession is something that's driven me insane for the last 10-15 years.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have, yes, the advisors are important because obviously they are client-fronting, they are hopefully bringing in some income for business.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: But that income doesn't get through the system without the support of the administrators, the power planners.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you're all a team at the end of the day.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, you we want to reward advisors, but if we you know, we want to reward the team as well.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we don't want anyone to think they're better than anyone else.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, we're all doing a journey, and you know, we've uh I've encountered plenty of people in our profession who've got massive egos, yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: The size of Jupiter, and we don't want people like that here, you know.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I one of our biggest things around recruitment now is not just about qualifications, because yeah, qualifications are important, but ultimately anyone can get qualifications with the right support.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the type of people and of having people that will fit into the team that we want, yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and not bring an ego with it because you can be successful and still not be an idiot.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: There are some, yeah, absolutely.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: There are some highly skilled um individuals from outside of the profession who should have an easy entry into financial planning, I think directly into the role of financial planner, um, as opposed to having to go through this old school traditional bottom-up type route of administration to power planning.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's not to belittle the role of an administrator or power planning in respect of the level of uh knowledge and experience that you gain within that role.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that serves a fantastic purpose for somebody perhaps who doesn't have a uh confidence or skill set that is client-facing, for example.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: The bit that, as you alluded to earlier, when you're in a power planning or administration role, unless you're being brought into any client meetings and being exposed to client visits and uh growing that skill set, then you technically are you're going to struggle going into a financial advisor role because you don't have those skills.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: The people from outside of the profession that I get to talk to on a regular basis who are struggling to get into the profession but have insane transferable skills, the profession is uh has to change to allow those people in in a way that supports them around the technical knowledge, exams, and um getting in front of the clients and doing the right thing and saying the right thing.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we're developing at the moment a non-biased interview process, video-based process where everybody from outside of the profession, regardless of how much you earn, what you look like, what sex, diversity, wherever you are, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everybody gets this interview and it's a video-based one.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going to be coming out in the next couple of weeks.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, I'm going to be working alongside academies and firms of all different shapes and sizes to be ensuring that if anybody comes through that route and they go through my interview process, and I believe that they have the right skill set to enter into the profession at financial advisor level, that I have a collection of firms that all tick boxes as well, that they have a clear personal development plan, that they invest in their staff, their ethical, all that kind of stuff.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if they meet that criteria, then I can then introduce them to those firms that do want to take those types of people on and therefore grow with what you said was the right cultural fit, but the right skill set as well.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what do you think of that?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: About that out of interest, because what I'm also doing with that is that any firm that sits on that other end who would be happy to take somebody on from a background that isn't financial planning but has the right skill set.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm also going to do is like it's non-discriminatory in the sense that it's about the culture of the business and what the business is doing and how well they're doing it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't charge more to somebody who's an SJP, for example, because they've got an academy and they can pay me more.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Each firm of each size are all equal.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I'm basing it on their culture and values more so.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a good angle?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think it can be.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I agree with you that there are people out there who've got massive transfocal skills who should have a quick route to being an advisor.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: We have our own, because again, like most people in our profession, recruitment has been a challenge for us.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we want people who will come on board and grow with us as a firm.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we've actually taken on two trainees in the last year.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and one of those is a gentleman who's, you know, he's 30, he's had a career in the military.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he wanted to move into financial planning.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we're supporting him, he's getting his ROs, um, he's nearly there now, he's got one or two more to do.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we are asking him and his partner to journey only trans transiently, but through admin, through power planning, but very, very sped up.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not expecting him to do like two years in admin, four years of power planning to get grounding.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I still feel that even if it's six months, it does give you an understanding for what other what happens in the business and an understanding for actually how bloody hard those jobs can be.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, it can come back at we don't want egos and we don't want people who look down on people in those roles.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes if people parachute in straight in, not saying in all cases, I'm that I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who do have um an appreciation for what those roles entail without doing them.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think even if it's just six months in each, it gives you well, because obviously you need to get the qualifications as well.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, he's until he gets his ROs, obviously, he can't really, you know.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's coming into meetings, so he's already coming into meetings and supporting advisors with notes, etc.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that would continue.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something we ask all our power planners to do, actually, um, to a degree, because again, it gets them exposed to that.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And for some of them, they might turn around and say, actually, yeah, we would quite like to move into advising.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've got an administrator who's become a power planner now, she's transitioned through, she's done a power planning friendship and gone through that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've said to her, if she offered wants to become advisor, let me know.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: At the moment, she's quite happy power planning, she doesn't, but the door is open to her, should she wish to, because I would love for there to be more.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: I always joke that financial planning is pretty much the only time when you go to a conference and there's no cue for ladies lose.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a massive cue for men, it's very little for the ladies.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's changed to a degree over the last 10 years.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are more women coming into the profession, considering it is a career.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I want that to continue because it, you know, women are not better than men, men are not better than women.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: We just sometimes have slightly different outlook on things, slightly different skill sets that we can bring to the table, the same as any diversity, you know, in the company.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have diversity in all areas because then you get the most ideas that you can get, you get the most viewpoints.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a group of six people at the top, you all think the same, believe the same, and there's no challenge, there's no way of growth.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I I would love for there to be another female director um here at here at Fiducia in Time.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that that is very much part of our growth plan.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to encourage more women into the profession, hence why I've been doing the school's outreach program as well, going into some schools, talking about financial planning as a profession and also what financial planning even is, because I say I didn't really know at 16.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's you know, hopefully the will in time be more people consider it because it's it's a great career.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great, it's a I love it, you know.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are like everybody, there are days when you think, oh God, do I have to go in today?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: But they're very few and far between.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely, you know, I do love what I do, and I'm very fortunate in that respect.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you good, I'm pleased, and you're absolutely right.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also as well, it's worth sort of echoing that the profession is, I see it, is in a startup phase.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been around for a while.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: RDR made some serious changes into the professionalism of it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Turned it into a profession and not a sales job, right?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Got rid of the riff-raff.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: And people that most of it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what we're seeing now is with the dawn of technology being so accessible and cheap, yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing being so easy, well, time consuming, but we all have easy access to be able to talk to thousands of people without spending any money, just your time and energy.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: The ability to outsource branding and marketing and website development and all these things.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can package a business in a box for a couple of grand, you've got your level four qualifications, perhaps you've got a bit of experience anyway, and you think, well, I'm going to set up my own business.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: There is lots and lots of that happening.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: And although the FCA might not particularly like all these little sporadic small firms all opening up, it's happening.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And these firms are able to grow.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if they want to grow, or they can be individuals that purely focus upon their personal brands and look and have this reach far greater than 10 years ago, five years ago, three years even.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I see that as being in a very exciting phase.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you bring FinTech into it and you bring the, like we say, the technology into it, the cash flow forecasting stuff that's going on.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you can have an amazing business without having to employ thousands, you know, 10, 15, 20 people, etc.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Outsource power planning and whatnot.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this brilliant startup phase we're in.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the entrepreneurial minds of the next generation, but also I'm 40.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 37 in a couple of months, so especially at the moment, just about to say round the same age then.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I was going to get my gun out and shoot my head.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Never ask women of her age.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: But we're around about the same age, aren't we, really?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, give or take.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we're entrepreneurial individuals and we're wanting to grow.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that 40 is this fantastic age of wanting to push forward and benefit from all we've learned and seen over the last 10 years and implement.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think in every, especially within financial planning, it is a massive startup phase.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody coming into it, you you can, as you said, make your own, you can you can be quite lucky in it, but you know, it's a huge amount of opportunities you need to make your own luck and and be a huge success.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there is.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a real shortage of good quality people coming, you know, historically, obviously, there's a lot of people who have exited, and there will be a lot more people who exit over the next 10 years, just looking at the demographics of our profession.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of us who are coming in or who are in already, but not yet at that point where they retire one day.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is massive opportunity.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I think it, as I say, clients, I think I said to you earlier, we're not in competition with other firms for clients, we're in competition for good quality staff, and that is our you know, channel.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Every profession I speak to, be it you know lawyers, accountants, they're all saying the same thing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's not just you know limited to financial planning.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a skill shortage, and we're seeing um an exceptional skill sorta shortage within the financial planning profession.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the good news is there's lots of people interested in it, and there's lots of people coming through.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's because of the rise in the power planner role, the more the need for more administration, there's cre is creating more um entry-level opportunities, which will only then, you know, as long as the firms themselves, and this is something that I think is so important, right?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you so every company of every shape and size, because I've seen big companies do this terribly, is that ensure you have a personal development plan.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Someone work walks through your door, right, and you are in your interview with that candidate, you should be able to turn your head and go to a poster and say on the wall, there you go, you're coming in at this level.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is the point that you can get to.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is how much you can earn, this is the level of responsibility that you'll have.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And instantly on one page, they can go, wow, there's my there's my there's my career map.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can turn around and say the ability to get to that point is determined by the work that you do and the energy that you put in and how you want to progress your career.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about handing it then back to the individual to empower them, that they are the person that's in control of their career, that you're not putting any kind of dampness or pauses or stops, or you're saying, well, we'll get to that when you pass your qualification.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about that next year.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, I want to know exactly how much I'm going to earn, when my pay increases come, what I have to do to get there, when my level of responsibility is going to change, what I have to do to evidence it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you that, that is probably one of the most powerful things that you can put into your business, as long as it then fits alongside a beautiful process and structure of career development within your business that works.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the biggest things and um challenges that somebody, an employee, has is that they feel like there's no route or guidance or clear route to becoming where they want to get to that meets it meets their ambition.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you scratch that itch in the beginning, you've got a fully fired up and committed employee.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've done it in our business.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we bring them in as trainees, and there is a path that they can get to, and it's completely and utterly outlined, and it's proven to work, and they get super duper excited about it.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's no arguments, there's no, I want this and I want that.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's come into the meeting, evidence what you've done, and let's talk about your promotion.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and have you done it or haven't you done it?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you haven't done it, this is what we're going to do.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: But also what I've implemented alongside that, and again, for every other firm is to make sure that not only do you have that personal development plan that outlines exactly how they can progress their careers, but also what are you doing to support them alongside that in respect of the stresses uh that might well come?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you have a well-being proposition?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing how many financial planning firms, right?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do not invest in employee benefits.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's that's an attachment to a financial planning firm.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why have you not got an employee benefits proposition?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them that even have like decent pension propositions.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that kind of brings me on to you, really.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: What can we what do you do and what do you think can be done when you're running a business to ensure that you're retaining and attracting the best talent?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's a case of trying to really understand each individual as best you can because it's it's what makes people tick.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are very geared by financial rewards, other people want to feel that their opinion is valued, some people it's both.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it there's if you try and treat people as I don't know, uh, you know, all the same, you will not get good results because we're not all the same.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what we all strive for is very different.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a case of really trying to understand.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, one of the first questions we ask into you is what makes you tick?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of this job?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, some people are very honest, I want to earn money.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's not that is not a negative, you know.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: We all want, we're not, let's be honest, we've all got jobs because we want to earn money, because we want to look after our families, we want to do the things that we want to do in life, and hopefully, one day we want to retire.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're not doing this out of love of getting up every day and going into the office, although hopefully people enjoy it as well.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no right or wrong answer to that, but it's a case of okay, what makes you tick?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now we know what makes you tick.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let's figure out a programme and a pathway.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've got um for our trainees, it's called the advisor pathway.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's figure out the part a pathway that will work for you and that's equally that gives you, like you say, there's elements that's in their control.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So getting their exams, but you know, if they want to do being advising, well, yeah, you need to get your exams because we're not gonna, you know, you can't do it, you can't get your um signed off unless you've got those qualifications.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of and that time scale is up to them.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: We don't put pressure on, we support, we give them study days, you know, they're potentially uh even every week they can have a study day off, depending on the role and what they want.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people would rather not, and then they potentially have a higher starting salary.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: So again, there's flexibility in there.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: If they want to work a four-day week and have a day at home studying, fine, we can do that.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's about the individual.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we support them through the exam process and we we we check in.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's regular check-ins.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a case of okay, you're throwing you out there and now crack on, we forget about you.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's I've, you know, we've just one of our advisors who's just been signed off.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he came on, he was a chartered paraplanner at his previous firm, wanted to move into advising, and there was he was struggling to find that first advisory role.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: So he joined us end of last summer or middle of last year, and uh January just signed him off as a competent advisor, and he's gone through that programme.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: We had, you know, at least fortnightly, if not weekly, meetings.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Me and him just sit down and talk.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: I shadowed him a lot, he shadowed me a lot.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got to support these people and you've got to put the time in.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're if I'm not willing to put time in, or my you know, my practice manager sometimes, or my MD, if we're not willing to put time into people, then the reality is they won't achieve what we want them to achieve.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's you can't just hire people and then ignore them.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of businesses fall into that trap.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: They hire people, they say, you know, this is what you can get, and then they kind of leave people to defend themselves, which isn't realistic.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: You need to make sure people are doing okay and then they're they're not sitting there actually stressing out because they don't understand what they've got to do next, or they don't understand the next route.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we try and be, I've always said to people, my door is open.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: That can bring challenges with it as much as anything, because there's some days when it's literally like one in, one out, nothing can get into anything quite when I'm actually getting work done today.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: But that's fine.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I adapt, I make make time for people because they matter, they are the business.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if I don't make time for them, then we don't have a business.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's something I've always believed.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like anything, you know, people in people that join your those that join your business are there, it's an investment.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: You are investing your money into paying somebody a salary.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just by paying somebody a salary and bringing them into your business because they've got a couple of letters at the end of their name or a couple of years of experience, it's not enough for them.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just go, right, but if I pay that guy 40 grand, he'll join me.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now he'll probably write 150,000 because that's what I expect him to do.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have this idea in your head, it's just numbers game.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get 10 people in, and those 10 people are coming in and they'll write this much business.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, my business plan is telling me I'm gonna earn a million pounds next year.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like it doesn't work.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's agreements, it's agreements versus expectations.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can have expectations of people, but the reality is they generally won't meet those expectations.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you make agreements with people, if you sit down and say, okay, we're gonna agree, we're gonna have you're gonna have an input in this, and I'm gonna have an input in this, let's talk about it.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: What is achievable to you?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to do?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you make an agreement, then people have got a vested interest in meeting that because A, they understand what's expected of them, you understand what they're gonna bring to the table as well, and it's far more likely to be achieved.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can sit there and pluck out when I'm budgeting and we're doing the annual budgets and stuff, you know, such and such is gonna write, as you say, 300,000 pounds.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't sit down and talk to him about how he's gonna achieve that and whether that's achievable, it's probably not.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably pie in the sky.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can put it on a spreadsheet, doesn't make it true.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's again, it's about sitting down and treating people as people and understanding what makes them tick, understanding, you know, what they can bring to the table, what they think is realistic.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's about it's it's input again, it's about people having the ability to input into the business and that to be taken on board and understood.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for me, that's I think the most fundamental element of it.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not saying they have to sit here and tell me all of their you know personal history in there, but they they generally don't, you know, it's if they want to, if they've got an issue and they want to come talk to me about it, that's fine.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do my best to support them and I'll try and encourage them to seek help where they should seek it if it's something that I can't help with.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: But equally, if we can understand the people we work with and who work for us, then you're gonna have a happier, happier workplace.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like you we talked about earlier, there'll be less sickness, there'll be less absence, you'll have less staff turnover.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our staff turnover has decreased, I'm pleased to say, dramatically over the last couple of years.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I believe that is because we are treating people as people and you know, trying to get underneath what they want.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there'll always be an element of staff turnover because there'll always be people who want to do different things or want to go somewhere else.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't get away from that.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: But generally speaking, you want people who want to stay.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't want to be flex, you don't want to be too flexible, right?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: That it becomes kind of wild west, but you want some form of flexibility in there.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want it too rigid, otherwise people get kind of like they don't like rigidness, some people don't like rigidness.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I like what you said there.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the learning, biggest learning experiences I've ever had is to try not to rescue the people that you're working with.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got 20 odd people, I've got like 24 people who work here now.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if each and every one of them came to me with a problem, I'd want to try like naturally, right?
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Human nature, I want to try and make them happy.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want to try and solve it.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now I knew that was not a good use of my time and actually it completely drained my energy.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: And by recognizing and being open around my own personal stresses and strains and experiences around mental health, and by putting in things in place that I can very quickly signpost them to some help, yeah, has been instrumental again in the overall sort of overall happiness and well-being of my business, you know, and adding things to like a well-being proposition where uh you can have free counselling, like eight, eight counselling sessions a year, it's been instrumental because, as you said, you can help to a point, but you're not a counsellor.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not a qualified therapist or counsellor, and I you know it's not my place.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, you you've got to make sure that people are aware of the support that's there.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Vaguely, if people want to take time out of work to do those things, to go, we will 100% support them.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but we always just say to people, tell us what's going on with you.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you need additional support, we will facilitate that and we will make it happen.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if we don't know, we can't help.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're a female leader, you're a female business co-owner.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's not a huge amount out there.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is growing.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was something like 27% on boards were female, and it's gone up to like 38% over the last five years, something along those lines.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now I'm big, uh obviously we all are, everybody is really.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think you'd be a bit of an idiot to not be an advocate of having more women in leadership positions?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think women make fantastic leaders, and the managers, all the managers within my business are females.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, all of our directors are male, so that's got to change.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now what do you think can be done around more women in leadership roles?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the benefit to a company and the profession as a whole for this to be growing?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it starts young, which is one of the reasons why I've been going into schools.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it goes back to the kind of, you know, you have an outspoken boy that you know that they're they're oh, they're they've got leadership qualities, you have an outspoken girl, it's often looked at less favourably and that they're a challenge or they're difficult.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's reframing that and actually saying, no, we're all again, all people, we can all bring things to the table, and encouraging girls to be outspoken and not to, and I think because historically, again, if if we wanted a family, you know, I wanted kids, I've got two, I love them dearly, which drive me insane.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's often been that kind of okay, we're your mum.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: We are a mum, but I'm also, you know, an advisor, I'm also a director, I'm also a business owner.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to be defined by one thing, and I think we kind of fall into that trap.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I had it, you know, family members when I was pregnant with my second son turned to me and said, Oh, so you're gonna stop working out then because you're gonna have two.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I've been working for 10 years, I've got all these exams, I haven't just done that for fun.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm gonna go back to work after I'm you know, and they were quite surprised because again, it's a generational thing, you know, it's not what their generation would have done.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's not to the detriment of anyone who chooses to stay at home and have the you know the family and look after them.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's actually probably a harder job than what I do, to be quite honest.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the patient's an absolute saint.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's it's about again, yes, we can't have it all.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that it's it's you know, the have it all thing is possible for anybody, male or female.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think whatever we do, we're gonna have to make sacrifices, and that's gonna, that's the reality of life because you've only got a given number of hours in a day.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the reality is we can do more than one thing, we can be a mum, we can be a business owner, we can be an advisor.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just encouraging people to actually not give up if they're if at first there's an initial barrier, like as I say, like there was no clear path for me.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew that if I carried on doing my exams at some point in my career, there would be an opportunity and I would get that opportunity.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I did.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if I hadn't carried on doing those exams, if I just accepted where I was and that that was all I was going to be, then that would have been much harder.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's you know, it's classic, don't give up.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same with um, you know, don't be afraid to put your ideas forward, don't be afraid to have a say.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: They may not be well received potentially by the person you've given them to, but there'll be somebody else out there who will appreciate those ideas, will appreciate your your views, and not taking it personally, because as people, as human beings, we we tend to focus on the negatives.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you know you can have 10 people say positive things to you, if one person says a negative, it's the negative that you dwell on.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's reframing that and going, okay, that's their opinion, that does not define me.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can, you know, they can have a negative opinion, but it doesn't mean it's true, it's their opinion.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just, I think I'm not saying growth skin, because again, you you need to be receptive to others, and I think having a thick skin can kind of cut you up, you've got to be empathetic as well.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: But just keep going, you know, it it's looking enjoying the journey, but also not giving up on if you've got an end goal, um, because there will be an opportunity if you put yourself out there, if you take the time to do the things that are important to you, like for me it was exams.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was also having my kids.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I was on maternity leave and I was taking exams.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: I came back from maternity leave more qualified than I was when I left, which put my employer in a bit of a spin because I was saying to them, Well, I want to move into that role, and they're saying, But no, you left on that role, and they're saying, Yeah, but I'm now more qualified, so can I have that role?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's you've got to ask.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't ask, you don't get.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I always say to anybody, male or female, um, but I think it happens a lot with females within the administrative and power planning roles, they can almost get sort of pigeonholed into that role for far too long.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always just say, Look, you know, you are master of your own destiny, right?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: You are in demand.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: You are in demand.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your skill set is in demand.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: If where you are, you're not being valued or you're not being um um, you're not being taught, um, you're not being given the opportunities to progress your career forward based on your wanting to learn and improve your skill set or move ahead, then you need to you need to question why.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: You need to sit down with your manager, you need to sit down with the decision makers within the business, you need to outline exactly what it is you you want to do.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now you can get some great research from podcasts like this or speaking to recruitment consultants about what opportunities are actually out there, and it gives you a really good understanding of right, well, I'm actually being held back.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's evidence that suggests I'm being held back.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just my thinking.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken to three other people.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: I might have reached out to Susie.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: Susie said, look, you are being held back.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you know, go and connect, go and network, go and speak to somebody, get some evidence to suggest is your thinking right or is your thinking wrong?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to make some accountable changes?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to do some things to improve your career?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you really undervalued and not moving ahead?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a fear of the unknown, of stepping away from what you know, perhaps the kids and all that kind of stuff again might come into play.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: But take a chance, take a risk, speak to people in the first instance and start to follow through and don't let the fear cripple you and keep you in place because the profession is moving quickly, it's moving rapidly, and as we alluded to earlier, it's not about finding clients, it's about finding talent.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: People within the profession, you are a hot, hot commodity.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, as being a woman in financial planning, you are in demand.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be clear, there are a lot of firms out there, progressive firms, who want to have women in these positions.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because they see the benefit that that can bring to the to the team, to the clients.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are some, I have had particularly around when I'm doing work on divorce cases, some solicitors say, Oh, it's really lovely that I know I can refer this client to you because they've had a difficult time, and I think they would be happier being advised by women in this scenario.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, equally, I'm sure there's been clients who haven't walked me because I'm woman, that's just life, you know, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, being male, being female, there's opportunities for both.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not that it's either or, you know, the but the reality is as a as a if you're a young woman and you think about do I want to be an advisor, there'll be lots of fans who'll bite your hand off.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: So don't accept being told no just because you're part-time or because you're a woman, or because there's no clear path, you know.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: I there's huge opportunity and you're living proof of that, you know, you're moving into that leadership position.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my my final question to you to to uh to tick this off for the day, which has been a lovely chat with you, by the way, Susie, would be if anybody's listening to this podcast now, okay.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, we're gonna go from a different angle.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you were to tell your younger self or give your younger self some advice throughout your career at a point in time, what would that advice have been or what would it be?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's don't be afraid to change the plan because I had a plan of sorts when I went into the profession that changed when I had kids, and I had to change that plan, I had to adapt.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a case of don't be afraid to change, but don't give up and be patient.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you can be adaptable and you can be patient and you can work hard, you will ultimately get what you want to get.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes if we fixate on a plan to the extent where that's the only route we see, the chances are that's not going to happen because life gets in the way and life doesn't ever run smooth.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen that as say we bought Fiducia by the MBO back in March 2020, two weeks before we had the COVID crash.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was never part of our forecast when we took the business over.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you you adapt, and out of every challenge comes an opportunity, and it's just waiting for that opportunity to present itself and keeping positive because that's that's pretty much been my view of life.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: I try and stay positive.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: There have been challenges, there's been crap times, but if you can find a positive outlook, then actually that that's half the battle.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the rest of it should hopefully fall into place from there.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Susie, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a real pleasure talking to you.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really lovely.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um thank you so much, and good luck with everything at the do show.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, thank you.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely to talk to you too, Sam.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have an amazing uh day.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.