Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Darius Rucker

Transcript

Darius Rucker · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back Bob left Seth Podcast. My guest
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: today is Darius Rutger, who has a new autobiography, Life's
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Too Short. Darius, how good a golfer? Are you?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Okay? I mean I can play, I get around. You know,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I play a lot, so I should be okay. I'm like,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm like a five, so I'm okay. How often
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: do you play a five days a week? So you
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: play when you're on the road, you belong to a club?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: What's going on? I'm along to a lot of clubs,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: but uh, I do play a lot of the road.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Is why I'm play on both of my golf because
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: there's really nothing else to do all day. So I
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: usually get up pretty early, player around the golf before
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: working out, getting the rest of the day started.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: And do you still take lessons at this point? How
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: do you improve your game?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I do?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I do?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I still take lessons when, uh you know, when when
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: things start to go a little south, I got I
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: got a guy here, Dastviel that uh that helps me out.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: So uh, I do definitely still take lessons. And what
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: kind of clubs do you use?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I played p XG you know, I love them. I
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: think they're the best clubs in the world. So, yeah,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I love playing those those.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And is that because you have a relationship with the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: company or you how did you discover that brand?
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Uh? I thought I played them with the first generation
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and I just thought they were really good. But I
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: took a relationship with the company. But uh, I just
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: thought they were really good. Every year they seem to
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: get better. And and so I'll get a new set
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: of clubs every every every now and then, and uh,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: you know, every time I get a new set, they're better.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So you played with a lot of pro golfers. What
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: have you learned from them about the game?
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I learned that they play a different game than we do.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's for sure, you know.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, the best thing about playing with the pros,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: you know, everybody I've getting to play with, is they're
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: always so willing to help you with advice and you know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: let you know little little intricacies of the game that
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you're doing wrong that you can help and you could
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: improve on.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: And uh.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And so I always enjoy when I get to play
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: with professionals, even though really they don't play the same
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: game we play.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: It should have a different name.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I know, you know, they work the ball, they
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: do other things. But tell me how the game is
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: different for the professionals.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I mean everything, the sound of the sound of the
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: ball coming off the club.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: The thing that I that I'm so envious of when
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it comes to professional golfers is their consistency. I mean,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: they just hit the ball the same way almost every time,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: and they and and you know, it's just that's that's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the worst part.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Of my game.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not consistent enough. I should be a better golfer.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: But uh but I just love love watching them play.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I love watching him hit the ball. And they hit
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: it so much further than we do. I mean, it's
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: it's not even fair.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So why do you think they hit it further than
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the amateurs?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Because they know what they're doing. They know what they're doing,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and we're we're also trying to figure it out. And
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: it golf is one of those games.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: When you get to that level, it's just they just
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: know what to do. They know, you know how, like
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: you say, work at the ball, left, right and all
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: that stuff. They just know how to hit it. And
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: even coming off the club, it sounds different than what
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: we do. So they're just you know, they're just a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: different level.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And as far as people, what's the difference between athletes
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: like golfers and musicians as.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Far as people, I mean, the one thing I would
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: say with that is like, you know, people are people
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: and they're you know, their personalities may be different, uh,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: you know, the way they see the world may be different,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: but but really, at the end of the day, you know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: we're all just human And that's something I learned, you know,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you know, with my success and I've learned hanging out
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: with a lot of athletes that you know, at the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: end of the day, we all have problems, and we
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: all have kids that we worry about, and we all
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you know, worry about our health, and we you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we're all just human beings.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But golf they scored differently than music. You know, there's
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: par everybody plays in a tournament. What separates the winners
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: from the losers? In your mind?
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, the golf is what separation winners from the losers.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's short game and punting because they could
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: all hit it. You know, they all hit they all
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: hit the green and they all are around the green,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: you know, and the guys that can get up and
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: down or will make big putts, make long putts. I mean,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: those are the guys that win tournaments, and those are
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: the guys that become legends.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: You know, you think of all the greats and you
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: could probably picture some putt that they made that that
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: you know, that was just amazing, or some ship that
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: they made that was just amazing.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: And I think that's what really separates golfers, is a
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: short game.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And then how about in terms of attitude.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think that's got a lot to do with golf.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I think I think that the great players, the great
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: players don't let bad shots get them down. And know
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: you that they all have the attitude of you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I got to hit the next shot. And I think
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: that's that's something we're talking about golfer. I think that's
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: something in life. The people who are really successful don't
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: let the little thing, not the little things, or just
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: don't let a setback get them down.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like like if me and music, you know,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: if there's a setback, if you know, one single didn't
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: do well, well, you know, we go to the next thing.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It's it's just I think really successful people have a
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: way of not letting things get them down and realizing,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: you know, Okay, we got to move on to the
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: next thing and or move on to the next shot
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: and do that better.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And if all the courses you played, if you could
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: just play one or two, what courses would they be?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, if I could just play one or two Dustin National,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: for sure, you know, I just think that's every time
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I've been blessed to play there. It's just there's really
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: nothing like it. It's just every time I and I've
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: gotten to play quite a few times, and every time
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I go through that kid, I can't believe if I'm
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: getting to play Augusta, I can't believe I'm on the
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: grounds of Augusta National.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: And probably the.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Other one, you know, either either Bulls Bay, which my
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: local course, or Scottsdale National, which I think is is
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: probably my favorite place to go play that I get
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: to play a lot.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, Augustin National where they play the Masters. For a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: long time, they kept black people out. So when you
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: play there, can you feel that or what do you
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: think about that?
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Oh? No, I think They've come a long way with that,
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: you know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, in the sixties and seventies, you know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: they kept black black even out you didn't complain to the tournament.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: You know. You think about you know, Lee Elder getting
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: being the first black to play, and Augusta and all
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the stuff he had to put up with just to
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: go play a golf tournament, you know, And I think
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I think Augusta's come a long way with that, you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I I look at it, and we can't
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: just put it on Augusta.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: It was the history of America. You know.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Black people were kept out of a lot of things
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: just because of the color of our skin. And you know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: you know, we just you try to overcome that. And
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: you old people in the here, twenty twenty four year
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: old people, you know, can get past that. Don't even
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: get past that, just like it doesn't matter, you know.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: It's you know, like I said earlier, at the end
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of the day, we're all just human beings. And you
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: hope people really realize that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: The fact that Kamala Harris is running and she's black,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: as a black man, how do you view that.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's great, you know, I thought it was
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: great when Obama became president. You know, I'll be honest
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: with you. When Obama became president, I was shocked. I
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: just never thought I would see that in my lifetime.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I just really, you know, back sixteen years ago, however
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: long it's been since it was when he was when
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: he was first elected, I truly never thought I would
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: see an African American president in my lifetime. And now
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: to see an African American woman get the nomination from
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: one of the major parties, I think it's amazing.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's a I think it's great for the country.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Even though, just like everything else with the race is
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: going to polarize a lot of us, and you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: separate is going to divide a lot of people.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: But I think it's a great thing for the country.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: And how have you seen race relations and opportunities change
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: in your lifetime?
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Oh goodness, you know, I think we've all seen it.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: You know, Like we're sitting, you know, and I see
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: there talking about you know, black folks not being able
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: to play our stuff. I remember that, you know, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: me coming into Country of Music and being told that that,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: you know, the audience would never accept an African American,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: you know, country starm you know, that was there were
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: just places, you know, places we weren't supposed to go,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: where we couldn't go, or we were just kept out of,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: you know. And a lot of those doors and walls
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: have been broken down, you know, and sometimes you know,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: we still see people try to put it back up,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and that's sad, you know. But but I think most
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: of America realizes that there's room for all of us everywhere.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: And there's been a big push back against the EI recently,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and certainly an affirmative action. What's your viewpoint on DEI
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: an affirmative action.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I think, I know it's it's sad for me the
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: pushes back on it, and to watch people act like
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: it's a bad thing, that's the thing. That's the thing
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that really bothers me, is people acting like diversity, equity,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and inclusion is a bad thing.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: You know. Uh, you know. It's the funny thing about
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: the EI.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the EI or affirmative action, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: everybody thinks about African Americans, you know, but you're probably
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the people that have been most h I saw that
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: the other the group that's been most that that had
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the most affected by the eis white women, you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: white women getting a chance to do things that they
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: didn't get a chance to do. But and you know,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, inclusion and diversity is always good.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: You know. It's like I always say about country music,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to see country music starting to look more
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: like America because you know that America is a belting
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: pot of people, and so, you know, I think all
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: industries and all things should be.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're a star, you travel around the world. What
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: do people in America, white people not understand about being
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a black person in America today?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Oh goodness, I think I don't.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people really realize, you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: how people try to keep how how much to people
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: try to people try to kept out of different things.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: That's why you have a formative action in de Ei. Yeah,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: it's because we were for so long we were kept out.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people don't really realize
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: how hard you're how hard you have to work to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: to to get in at some industries, to douce some things,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I always said everything I've done
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: in my career, I've realized I've had to work harder
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: than everybody else, and I'd have to, you know, be
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit better than everybody else to get a chance.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people don't want to
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: face that.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Now that you've had a lot of success in the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: country world, do you believe you still have to fight harder?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do. I believe that one hundred percent,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: you know, because I know I do. You know it's
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: even today to get a single, you know, I gotta
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: still work harder than everybody else. And I don't mind.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: You know, our work has never been something that I've
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I've showne away from I'm a bit afraid of. But
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: but uh, you know, yeah, I think I'll always feel
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: And just to be a little more specific, in what
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: ways do you work harder on a single?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: You know? You know, playing yeah, you know, having to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: play more radio shows, having to to you know, do
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: a little but harder work. And you know, watch my finger,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: My singles move flower than other folks singles, even though
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: you know it might be a better song. But uh,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: you know that that's just part of the deal. I'm
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: not gonna sit there complained about it, you know, because
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: it is what it is. I'm just gonna you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I just I'll work because I don't mind working. But uh, yeah,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's as easy for me
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: as it is for some people.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: And to what degree do you encounter racism in everyday life? Uh,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: it's not as bad as it used to be.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: You know, there was a time when, you know, especially
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: like when we were playing clubs back in the day,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: it was a time where you really did encounter it
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: every day, you know. But it's still there, you know, so,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I mean it will always be there. I don't I
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: think in my lifetime it will always be there in America,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: which is sad, but uh, that's just one of those
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: things that that comes with the territory, you know, when
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: you when you do something that when you're in African
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: American and you do something that you're not supposed to do,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, yeah, you got to deal with the consequences.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: And sometimes that's the consequences.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: And what happens if you're in an environment and someone
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: makes a racist comment, what do you do?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: You know, if it's somebody around me, you I'll address it. Well,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I'll address it, you know. If it's you know, sometimes
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you just let it go. I mean, why why deal
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: with ignorance. You know, there's nothing I want to say
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that's going to change that person's mind.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I like to change people's hearts, and you know, you
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: can only do that when you're friends with somebody. Oh
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: and you know you're you're you have a relationship with somebody.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: But uh, you know, you just deal with now with athletes,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: people are always saying that black men who have success
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: have a responsibility to lift others up.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that in country music that you have
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: an obligation or you want to lift other black men
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: or women up in the world.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I have an obligation,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: but I feel like something I want to do, you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So every you know, every every African record, I'll cut
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: your artists.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I mean I let them know. You know, you want
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to write with me, you want me any record, I'll.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Do anything I can't help you, you know, just just.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: To give you a chance.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I don't think anybody's obligated to
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: do anything. You know, people do what they want to
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: do and what they what's inside of them. But for me,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I just feel like it's the right thing to do,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: that's for sure.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Just to be very specific, you know, and this has
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: been a topic that's been hashed over a lot. But
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: since we're on this point, someone like Morgan Wallen uses
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the N word, which is inexcusable, But what would you
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: say as a black man where it's just rawly bad,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: he should be canceled. On the other extreme, he is
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: someone who's not sophisticated, who's listened to a lot of
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: rap records, Jen was inebriated. What's your viewpoint on that?
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: You know, among as well as cats. You know, I'm
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: part of trying to change his heart. You know, I think, uh,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: you know this this there's both that. You know, it's
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: both ways. You know, those guys do listen a lot
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of rap records and you know they hear the word
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and he's drunk, and you know he wasn't using it
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: in an adult derogatory way, but he shouldn't.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Have been using it at all, right, And you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: It's it's a situation where you know, you know, you
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: try to change somebody, like you try to change his heart.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: You try to and and try to make it, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure he does. You see why you can't
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: say that that's just not you know, it's not for
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: you to say. You know, I wish no one would
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: say it. You know, I never used it. I don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: use the word. I wish no one would use it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: you know. And I understand the reappropriation, and you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: using it the way we're doing rap is just taking
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it back. But it's like, you know, it's just one
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: of those words that really doesn't need to exist in
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the English language.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: And if you've actually spoken to Morgan Wing about.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: This, yeah, I have you know, I mean, I have,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you know, and Morgan's trying to do better. Morgan Morgan
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: is he gets it, and he's trying to do better.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: And you know, you know, I mean, I don't want
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to say this is what it is, but you know,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: he's either gonna, you know, when you're in that situation,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: you're either gonna look at it and know God was
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: wrong and I'm gonna do better, or you know, he's
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: just gonna be who you are.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: And I think he's trying to do better.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Now, there's an impression in Nashville and country music that
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: everybody knows everybody. Is that true?
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Absolutely everybody knows everybody. And what accounts for that, I
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: don't know. You just see folks. You see folks, you
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: see folks on the war shows or just hanging out somewhere,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: or you know everybody.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: You met everybody and you either become friends with them
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: or your acquaintance acquaintances with them. But you know, you
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: know them, You've met them un in their face, they
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: know you. And because it's it's naturally such a you know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: most music doesn't have a home. Most music doesn't have
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: a place where everybody is. You know, rock and roll
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: was everywhere New York, La Atlanta is everywhere. Hip hop
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: is new you know, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, you know, but uh,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: country music's in Nashville, and that's where everybody is.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: So yeah, everybody knows everybody.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: What the people who are not fans of country music
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people talk shit about country music.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: What do they not understand about today's country music? Oh,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people say they don't like
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: country music because they haven't really listened to it. You know,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of I believe music's music, and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of there's a great song in every
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: genre of music, you know, even you know, the baroque vocals,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: chants and all that stuff. Is you can find a
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: good song, and I think it's one of those things
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: they don't want to give a lot of folks, especially
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: you know, especially African American folks, don't want to give
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it a chance. Don't want to give it a chance
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: because of the stigma of what is you know, what
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: are representative?
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: What what people thought of it for so many years?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: You know, and that like when I came in one
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: one of the one of the best things about it was,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: you know, getting letters or d ms from African Americans saying,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you know, man, I can you know I've always loved
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: country music. Now I can tell everybody else I love
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it because you're you're doing you know that that was
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: pretty cool.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And let's say you're going to write a song for
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Hoody and the Blowfish where a country saw for your
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: solo career, do you approach them differently?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally differently.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, uh, you know, you know, even though
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: who do we wrote a bunch of story songs. But
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: when you're writing, when you're writing country music, you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: you're trying to make a three and a half many movie.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: You're trying to the story every time, and you know,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: who do you We're just we're trying to write rock songs, man,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you know, we're trying to write yeah, rock songs that
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: are just you know, sometimes you you don't even have
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's really not about much of anything. It's just
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: about it's just us all the country. Which country songs
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: are always about something?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And what country acts are you with?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Fan enough?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I love Chapel Heart, I love I love
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Luke Bryan, I love so many ladies great. Uh, Dirk Brentley,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: rad Haisley, I love Kane Brown's just amazing.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Luke Holmes is amazing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's a whole there's a bunch of new there's
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: new kids that I found on the internet. I think
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: his name is Javonne Newman. I just think he's amazing,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: you know, and it's great to see that, to see,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of different artists coming up and
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of people doing stuff, and you know, I
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: sit don't listen to him.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Well do you think I mean? Historically, I country hit
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: music has been a controlled market on many levels, certainly
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: in terms of exhibition terrestrial radio. Do you believe that
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: has changed during your decade plus in country music.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think it hasn't changed country music or pop music.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: You know. It's all I wouldn't say formally, that's not
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the word I want to use. It's just, you know,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: it's a.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: It's it's a niche.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: You know. You have to write verse course, and your
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: course has to be big of course, has to be great,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: you know, and if you're going to put a bridge in,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: that's got to say something, you know.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: And and you know, I think writing.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Songs is is. I mean, there's a formula for writing songs.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Even if you're just writing, you know, a song that's
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: not a hit, there's a formula writing it.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Even even Dylan wrote verse course, verse course, you know.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just the way songs are.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you go back to the Beatles, there's
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: verse chorus bridge. Sometimes they start with a chorus. And
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you listen to a lot of the Spotify Top fifty,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: it's like they lost the formula.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And but that's that's music. It just
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it just fluctuates and the changes and it
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: goes back to what was before and then you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: every now and then something new comes brand new, comes
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: out and changes it and then that's just the greatness
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of music. It's just gonna It's like a it's like
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: a tide. It's going to come in and go out
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: and just keep changing. And I love that about it.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And are you a hip hop fan? Love it? You know?
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Love it? You know, I can't. I couldn't believe how
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: much I loved that. Uh, the Kendrick Lamar Drake feud.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I just thought it was great.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Thought are you well you know this is sort of
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a dumb question. Last are you on Kendrick Steam or
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Drake's team?
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I want to I want both teams because they were
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: both on bangers. So that was what that was what
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I loved about it is they were both putting out,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you know, great songs out of this. I mean, I
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: think Kendrick won that. You know, I'm not gonna lie.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I think people agree with you.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: I think Kendrick won.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: That that that that that beef. But uh, they were
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: putting out bangers and I was like, you know, I
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: was loving it. Every time I heard there was a
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: new song, I had to hear.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: What about Questlove who said he thought it was the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: end of hip hop?
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Oh? Well, he would know better than me.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I will uh, I will uh, I will requiesk the
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: question that you know, I don't think hip hop's ever
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: gonna end. I think hip hop is here to stay forever.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Just like even though you know there's no rock and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: roll in the radio right now, rock and roll is
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: still never gonna go, and there's still people, there's still
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: kids playing rock and rolls in g Rogers right now.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But uh, you know, uh, like I said, I'll go,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I'll let Quest handle that one. I'm just gonna keep listening.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: One I line, and is he a friend of yours? Yes,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I like Quest a lot. I'm a big fan, and
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: he is a friend, and he's one of the best
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: guys I know.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: He's just a good dude.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: So how come you never made a hip hop record?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Because I can't rap? That's not what you know that
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: that's not my thing. Uh, you know, I've never really
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: really tried. You know, of course you rap along with
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: the songs you're like, you know, and but you know,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not a rapper, you know, That's That's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: something I've never even thought about.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about contemporary country artists. Did you come
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: up listening to country.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I did, you know, I was a kid. For me,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it was Charlie Pride, of course. But uh, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Kenny Rogers is my man. You know, I still know
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: all those Kenny Rodgers, you know Coward County and and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: you know Ruby and and all those songs. I still
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I still know all the songs. They still make playlists
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: when I'm making playlists to listen to because I think
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: they're great. Charlie rich I loved him, you know, my
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: grandmother loved them. You know that Blue Eye soul that
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you know, he was a he was a soul singer.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: He was an R and B singer that was singing
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: country music.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: It was great.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Uh. You know, then you can get a little older,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and you know I discovered Dwight Yoakam and and Nancy
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Griffin and New grasp Re Bivle and Bradney Foster and
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Foster and Lloyd and you know, I discovered these these
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: these artists that just changed the way I heard music.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Those artists were just huge for me. And so yeah,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I loved it for a long time.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Kenny Rogers and a lot of the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: acts you're mentioning her from the seventies. How about the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: earlier artists, you know, whether it be Tammy Wynett, George Jones,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Were you exposed to them or so?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: The the one person from that era that was really
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I heard the place because my aunt played or was
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: was Loretta Lynn.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Loretta Lynn was just you know, the Pill and you
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: know the Divorce and all those songs that were great.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: You know. I remember my aunt played me a kiddie
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Well song once that just you know, blew my mind,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you know, and it was really, you know, it was
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: for me, it was music. I've never I understand that
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: we have to put everything in a place, and we
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: have to compartmentalize everything and put it in a genre.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: But for me, I say this all the time. You know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: we use the same chords, the same notes in the
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: same words, and we play music and everybody and it's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: just all music to me.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So when do you first remember hearing music growing up?
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: My first memory of music was five years old, four
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: or five years old, listening to al Green, you know,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and just discovering instantly that that's what I want to
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: do for the rest of my life.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: A little bit more in depth, you hear al Green.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: How do you decide you want to do it for
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the rest of your life?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness, you know, being a little five year old
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: kid and standing in front of my mom and their
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: friends with the salt and pepper shakers my microphone and
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: basically singing the whole Agreen album and the feedback I
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: would get from them and the love I would get
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: from them.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Just doing that, you know, made me go, Man, I
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: want to do this. I won't.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I want to feel this on a much bigger scale,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you know, if it feels like you know, I mean
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: as a young kid thinking it feels like this in
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: the living room, imagine what I feel like this, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: and the bigger plans for more people looking at you
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: and love.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Did you do a dream ever waivered? Did you ever
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: think at some point, man, I got to give up?
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: I did? You know?
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: After high school? You know, when I was graduating high school,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I realized not give up so much as just you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: what am I going to do? I mean, I never
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: played in the band in high school. I say, acquired
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and everything, and I never had a band until college.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And so it was like I went to college to
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: get a broadcast journalism degree.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: You know, hopefully work on TV talking about sports or something.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: And it's not that I'd give it up on my dream.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: It's just that I realized I was gonna have to
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: get a real, real life.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, that was your thought graduating from high school. How
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: did you also believe become convinced that no, you could
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: do it?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Oh? It was my sophomore year when I met Mark
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Indean and we started playing in a band, you know.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: And you know, at first, from that first gig where Mark.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And I played of ourselves at Pappy's, the local chicken
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: one joint, you know, you start thinking, all right, man,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I can do I want to do this, you know.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: That's what that's.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Really in my mind where school became unimportant. It was
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: in my mind where I don't know how we're gonna
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: do this, but we're gonna figure out how. We're gonna
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: play a lot more because I want to do this
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: every night.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go back. Al Green, who's from Memphis,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: is supposed to Nashville unbelievable talent. You know, you have
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Jack White and other people working with old country stars.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Do you think you could help Al Green have a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: hit in today's country market?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know if I could, but I bet
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, you know, one of the really big
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: superstars could you know, you know, Luke Bryant or or
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Luke Combs, and one of those guys came, you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: one of those guys that probably helped them have a
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: really huge hit.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: But uh, you know, I think.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I'm at the that uh, that point in my career
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: where you know, I don't even know if I get
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: on the radio anymore.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm almost sixty. It's been an amazing run.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: But I think one of those guys could yeah, do it,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: do it with Al Green, then you do the right song.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: They could have a really big hit.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. Country music is different from rock and roll and pop.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Rock and roll and pop, you usually have a window
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: when you have your peak, whereas you know, George Straight,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: these other people, they have first in country. Traditionally, once
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: you have success, your audience will support you throughout your life.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people have hits as they get older.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: It's always hard to climb the mountain again. But why
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: would you not have hits in the future.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I mean I think I might, you know, I could
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: have its, It's just harder, you know, it's like, you know,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: like you see Garth put out a single, or you
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: see George Straight put out a single. You know, when
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: they were in their heyday, the single raced up the charts,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: you know, twenty weeks you got a number one, you know.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So nowadays, you know, you know, it could take months,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: eight take eight months to get a record up the chart,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: you know. And I you know, I hope, I hope
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: they still have I hope. Yeah, I'd love to have
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: ten more hits, you know, But that's I don't I'm
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: gonna stop trying. I'm gonna keep making records and putting
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: them out and seeing what happens. But I'm a realist
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: about life and about my career. And and you're right,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I could go play shows for the rest of my
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: life and my fans will come out and see me play.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: But as much as they want to say they are,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: the fans, aren't the people who are dictating what's a hit.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: It's the gatekeepers at radio and you know, the gatekeepers
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: you know, at the at the streaming services that really
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: they're really determined what's going to be a h.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Are you working on an album now?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not right now, you know, I put an album
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: out last year. I guess earlier this year, we put
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: a record out, and and you know, I'm doing the
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Hoodie tour right now, but I'm gonna start writing the
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: next record. I want to have it out next year.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So I'm start writing next record real soon. And you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I love writing music. I love making records. Okay, So
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: what's your process? You start writing songs because you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: we have an album. Where you get inspired and write
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a song, how does it play out?
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Both?
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You know both? You know, I might get off the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: phone with you, I might get off the zoom with
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you right now and feel like I write a song
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: sitting here right one.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: But when you're making a record, I mean it's like,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like a job. You go write songs.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: You know, you get your buddies and you write songs.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: You sit around, you know, Okay, I'm gonna write a
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: song today. And because you're trying to get you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: for every I've never written less than fifty songs for
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: any record I've made some country music, you know, you
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: write fifty or sixty and then you pick thirteen, and
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: so you just start writing. And then when you think
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: you got enough, songs, you really start listening to them
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: and decide what you're gonna put on the record.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Well, on some of your solo albums in the country world,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: you didn't write most of the material.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of records that, uh I
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: might have had two or three songs I didn't write
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: on them, and or at least co wrote on them.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: But you know, in country music, when you hear a song,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: when somebody say to you a song, because that it's
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a it's an occupation in Nashville.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Songwriter, you know, that's what you do your song right.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: You know Ashley Gorley, you know is you know, feelthy
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: rich because he's written so many number one songs. And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: you know when when him or or or you know,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: one of the other guys sends you a song, it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: just clicks. You go, Okay, I'm cutting that because yeah,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I'm a songwriter, but I'm an artist. You know, I'm
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: an artist. I want to sing great songs. So do
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: people send you songs on a regular basis?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: All the time? All the time? Party sent me a
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: song about six weeks ago. All the time?
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do you separate? You know, they hit
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: from the ship. It's like, you know, a lot of
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: people send you unsolicited stuff that would be not worth cutting,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: not worth listening to. Does it never even get to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you because you have a filter or what do you know?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: You know, that's the one that goes back to what
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: we were talking about, how everybody knows everybody in Nashville.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: You know that, you know, it doesn't go to anybody else.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: They send it to you, They texted to you, you know.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And for me, I don't know what's the hit, but
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I know what I like, and that's how I judge it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: If I like it or I love it like a song,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Like if I told you you know, but that song
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: came in, I had to cut it. I loved it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I wish I'd written it, you know. I you know,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I was talking to one of the writers once and
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I said, how could you write my life without me
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: being in the room?
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: And you know, I have to cut that song. But
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: that's for me, that's all I decide.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what's a hit, but I
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: know what I like.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: How often are they pitching you a song and they're
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: also pitching it to somebody else.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I really don't know, but you know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I'll be awesome. There has been songs that have come
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to me that I turned down that you know, I
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: hear on the radio, you know, and you know that's
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that's cool. They And the thing is, I don't know
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: how many. I'm sure it happens. I'm sure it happens
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: all the time. But those guys want somebody to cut
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: their song. But I'm not mad at them. You know,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: if I was just if I was a song writer
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: not an artist, I'd be doing the same thing.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: But if you commit to a song, they commit. They
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: won't pitch it to anybody else.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, If somebody sends me a song and I text
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: them go, I'm gonna cut this, they won't sign it
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: somebody else. And if they have said it to somebody else,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: they'll text us go, hey, Darius's gotten this.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. Have you ever heard one of these songs that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: was pitched to you that you didn't cut and you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: later hear the finished record, You go and I do
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: like that that was a hit. I missed that.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, you know, but I don't. I don't ever
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: said I missed it because usually there was a song guys.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So when I hear a song I use. I like it,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and I think I get but I just go I don't.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna cut it. You know, I like it,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: but it's not for me. So when you're here with
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: somebody else, you go, yeah, that sounds great, that's a hit.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a hit for them. But I still wouldn't
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: cut it.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: And how about co writing? How do you approach that?
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I love it, And and the crazy thing is I
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: never started co writing until like they in the Nashville,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: like all the hoody stuff, we never wrote together.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: We all just wrote songs that brought him into the group.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Or or you know one of those guys that write
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: some music and they're bringing it and give it to
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: me and say, write some words to the song. And
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: So I love co writing because the thing I love
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the most about co writing is you'll be sitting in
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the room and you'll come up well lined and you'll
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: love that line and you'll sing it to somebody that
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: you're co writer, and they'll sing it back to you.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: But one note will be different or who knows to
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: be different, and one they'll they'll change a word here,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and you realize, oh, that's so much better because for me,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I sing the way I sing, and when
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I hear somebody else sing something back to me and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: it's a little different. You know, I want to sing
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: that like that because I love the way that sounds.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And you know it's it's not me being me, it's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: me singing a song.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. I mean people were writers, weren't even performers. You know,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: five days a week, they'll meet with people to write
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: other songs. Do you just get together with people when
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: you know you're working up material for an album? What
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: would make you have a writing session?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Uh? Just you know, either it happens sometimes when people
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: just call and you know, you see somebody who let's
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: write a song, and then you text each other you'll
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: set up a session. But when I'm when I'm writing
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: for a record, yet three sessions a day, five days
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a week, you know you're just going to you going
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: you write.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And when you go into the room, do you bring
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: something or you're totally a blank slate.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: That happens both ways. Sometimes you got an idea that
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: you take in and you know, I've walked in with
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a with a verse and the chorus. You know I've
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: walked in with two verses and a chorus and just
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: need a bridge, you know, And other guys will come
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: the same way where they come with you know, versus
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: the chorus or or or or just the chorus, and
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: you go, all right, that's it, that's right, that one,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's always that. That's the That's the
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: great thing about songwriting. It's it could be, it can
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: go anyway. There's also great songs that come from you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: you're sitting around and nobody's got any ideas. Somebody says
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: one line and somebody catches on to that, and you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: go and write a song.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And what's the right number of people in the room?
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I think three is are perfect a great number three
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: or two. I think when you get four people in
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: a room for more, it's just too many.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: It's too much.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And I've done it, neve written great songs that way,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: but it really is too much before or more?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: And is there how do you decide on credit?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's just if there's four people, you split four ways.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Just three people used put it in three ways. There's
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I've never been in a room that was a discussion
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: on percentages. That's just the way it is.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: And if you could write with two people, who would
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: do those people be that.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I haven't written with?
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: No, well, let's start with that that you haven't written with.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: If I write with two people I haven't written with,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: it would probably be probably like Keith Urban and h
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Kelly Loveless. I've never rely saw Kelly lovelas. He's a
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: big writer that I'd like to sit two of them
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: and write a song.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: But I write.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: You know, if people I write with Asthley Gorley would
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: have to be in the room.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: He's a He's a freaking genius. Uh uh.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And Charles Kelly Lady. I love writing with him. He's
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: because he's got a voice that I just admire so much.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Or Chris Stapleton.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: You know, well, let's stay with Stapleton, because Stapleton was
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: around for a better part of twenty years before he
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: broke through, and he and his music are, if not
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the most revered in Nashville, close to it. But he
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: is doing something a little bit different than everybody else.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to be playing to the market. It's
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: almost more rock and roll. What's your take on Stapleton?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: What's the magic there?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: He's got that thing that all artists wants you know,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: he don't have to play the market. You know, Chris
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: could put out anything that's going to be a hit.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, he's the standard bearer or country.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: He's the best singer in the business, and so he
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: does what he wants and I love it. I'm such
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: a big fan, you know, I love writing with him.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I've had number ones with him. You know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: he's just He's Chris and that's all he wants to
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: be and I love it.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: How about some people in the Americana world, which doesn't
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: charge on country radio but gets a lot of respect,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: people like Jason Isbells the world do you pay attention to.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I love Jason as well. I would write with him
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: at Heartbeat.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I think he's a you know Rihanna Gibbons, you know,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I would love to write with her. You know, I
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: think that that whole genre is is great, and you know,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Jason is just a crazy great songwriter, a lot of
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: a huge fani.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to South Carolina. You know, the
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: country is a result of the Internet and cable television.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: There is no flyover country. And I certainly know growing
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: up in the Northeast that I had a long term
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: girlfriend from Tallahassee, which people don't realize is more Georgia
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: than you know, South Florida. So what can you tell
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: us about growing up in South Carolina? So it was
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: it was a southern town, you know, but it was.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: It was a bastion of of of For me growing up,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: it was I was raised by a village. You know,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: we had a neighborhood that was everybody. We were all close,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: We were all friends, family, all the families were friends.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: You knew everybody in the neighborhood. You know, if you
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: went around the corner and you know, miss Simmons had
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to whoop you because you did something wrong, you know,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: your mom didn't get up and go around and yell
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: at miss Simmons. When you got home, you got another
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: whooping because Miss Simmons had to whoop you, you know.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, we were raised by everybody's parents and it
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: was great for me. I loved it. I mean I
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: would say I'd do my childhood to get an harpyat.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And for me, you know, you experience, you know, experienced
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: racism and stuff like that, but it just it was
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: just what it was. I mean, it was just you.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: You dealt with it, and you moved on, you know,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and because it was what it was, and I just
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: grew up. We grew up with not a lot, but
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: we had. There was so much love and so much
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: friendship and so much camaraderie. I mean, I'm still best
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: friends with the five guys I grew up with. You know,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: we still text each other every day. We have a
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: group text where we text every day. And what are
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: those guys up to? You know, guys are doing different.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: One guy's a money guy, one guy's a lawyer. One
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: guy runs the school districts in Beaufer County, and you know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: one guy works at Target. You know, you know, one
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: guy whoves out in California as a social worker. I mean,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: everybody's doing their own thing and loving it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: So everybody this environment in the village ended up generally
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: speaking good stories.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: My friends all did Yes, my friends all ended up
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: being good, hard working folks who who you know, I
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: want to say God out of it, because that's just
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: not the word. Who became great, great men who raised
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: their families and work their jobs and try to enjoy themselves.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: So how does this affect how you raise your kids? Oh?
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I like I would like to think you
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: like his. I think I was a pretty good dad.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just I just wanted them to be
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: happy and successful.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: What are they up to.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: I got, you know, one one daughter who lives here
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: in Nashville who's doing really well for herself. I got
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: a daughter just who graduated college college in Florida. I
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: got a daughter just graduated from NYU.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I got a son that you know, went to NYU
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and you know now he wants to get into real estate.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: And they're just healthy, happy kids working their butt off,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: knowing that you know, their parents have their backs.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: And are they off the payroll?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: You know pretty much? You know, the younger ones probably not,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: you know. And uh, the one who just graduated colleges,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: you know, she's still kind of on it. And you know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: but I'm sure just the way we live, you know,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I don't ever want them to be totally off the payroll.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: I'm always there for them, you know. I want them
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: to get jobs. And they are and living their lives
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and working hard. But you know, they need anything, I'll
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: always be here.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: What if they call for money? What would you say
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: no to?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Oh? If they wanted to my house I wanted my
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: car and say no, no, like you know, you go
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: work for that. But uh, you know, you know I'm
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: a good dad. I'm a generous dad. But uh, you know,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I would never imagine cutting my kids off or saying
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to give you anything, because that's just
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: not who I am.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Well, needless to say, you've created quite an asset base.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: When you do pass, which hopefully won't be for thirty
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: odd years, what do you plan to do with the money?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Give it to them, and I'm sure I'll leave some
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: to the some charities I love, But you know, I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: want my kids to enjoy the benefits of my hard work.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: So let's go back to South Carolina growing up. What
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: kind of kid we like? In school?
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I was a good I was a good student, you know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: didn't get in trouble at school very often. Until high school.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I was an athlete. And then in high school I
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: became music became you know, the choir and the choruses
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: and a small the small group were my life, you
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: know that going to rehearsals and we we had a
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: show choir. That was that was a lot of work,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of after school rehearsals.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: And stuff like that.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Well, some people might have not been exposed to show choir,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: So tell us about show choirs.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Choirs. Uh, you know, it's it's it's a big it's
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: not you. When you take a choir, you think of church,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't that. It was choirs that got together
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: and you know, you sang contemporary songs or during Christmas
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: you sang all the Christmas stuff and you know there
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: was some dancing to it, and there was some uh
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: some uh you know, little choreography and a little but
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: it was you know, at my school, the Middleston singers
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: were a big deal, you know, and you had to
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: try out. Not everybody made it. Probably less than a
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: halfter people that tried out made it. And so it
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: was a big deal. And and so choir was fun.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: It was you know, twenty girls and twenty guys that
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: all could say and would go out there and try
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: to be great.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: So it's in your book for those people don't know.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: You graduate from high school and then what do you do.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I went to the University of South Carolina and majors
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: in broadcast journalism.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: And what was that experience like? At first?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: It was tough, you know, I had gone from this
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: high school. I think my graduating class had three hundred
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: and twenty people or something. You know, I was I
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: was a senior class vice president.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I went from the school where and I was in
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: every clique. I was in the jocks click, I was
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: in the you know, the stoner's click. I was in
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the music click. I was in the big
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: brothers and sisters. Cause I was just.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: I was just. I was friends with everybody.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: And I went from that to this university of forty
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: thousand people, and that was a culture shock for me.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: It really was first semester it was a culture shop.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: And at first I didn't think I liked it, and
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: then I did. Yeah, when I found my place and
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: my friends, I did like it. And it was it
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: was a big university. It was exactly what you're think
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: it is. You know, college football every Saturday, and and
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: you know, every weekend I haven't parted our butts off,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: and every wanting to go home to visit parents and
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: tell Thanksgiving. You know, it was a typical southern college
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: college experience. And you know that's something that's another thing
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I would do and get an RP. But you ultimately
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: leave there right now. I stayed there the whole time
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I was gonna leave, And then I met a buddy
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: of mine right before right before Christmas break, I met,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I met, I knew him, but he asked me to
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: come and have a beer with him, and we just
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: had such a great time.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: I decided to stay.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: And yeah, Yo, that's one of those things that I,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: you know, I believe in fate because I looked at
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: that moment of where I really was going to transfer,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: and his name was Chris Carney, and he actually he
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: runs my life right now.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: But uh, he you know, beating him at not meeting him,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: but just talking to him.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: That day at at that whole meeting and staying and
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: having so much such a great time with him, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: ended up staying in South Carolina. I mean, if I'd
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: left South Carolina, I wouldn't be talking to you that rapp.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have ever played in
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: the band if I'd doing this stuff after school.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: So that's one of those things that makes me believe
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: in fame.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: And what about finishing college.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, after my junior year, I had wracked up a
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: pretty good uh student loan debt and uh didn't have
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: really the money to go back, so I decided to
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: take a year off and just never went back.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: So, you know, like Bruce Springsteen has that record where
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: his mother says he can still go back to college.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And the funny thing is, I
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: think about it now because I'm such a gay Flock supporter.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I think a lot that you know, take online classes
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: and stuff and go back just to get the degree,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: so I could up being a graduate of the University
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: of Carolina. But you know, like my friends have to say,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I think you did all right for yourself. So I'll
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: see it that way.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: What about your kids if your kids wanted to drop out.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: My nineteen year old has decided he did colleges enough
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: for him, and I was fine with it. Collegism for
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: everybody in today's world doesn't have to be you know,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: it was just hounded into our head back in the
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: day that if you want a good job, you have
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: to have a college degree.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: You know. I just don't believe that anymore, you know.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: And and you know, like I said, he was going
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: to the NYU and to drop four hundred grand to
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: go to the school.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: You know, when you don't want to go to school
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: just if he didn't want to go. I was fine
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: with that.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you play with your buddy out and you
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: have this realization that whoa, I could do this. What
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: happens next.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, we get another buddy and another buddy and we
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: start playing shows, and you know, we start traveling all
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: over the East Coast after a while.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: A little bit. So first of all, I'm sure you
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: don't like it. Many people call you Hoody, But in
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the book it tells the story of how the band
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: named Hoody and the Blowfish came about. Can you tell
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: my audience that story?
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Oh? I was. I was actually in a show choir
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: and that's that's South Carolina and called Carolina Alive.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: And we were we were ship Man.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: We we played inaugurations and all over the place we
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: would play, and we were starting the band. Market and
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I played together for a few months and we were
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: starting the band. We had our first gig about a
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: week after this happened. And there was one guy that
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: had really big guys and more round glasses like leaden
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: and I started calling them Moodie, and everybody in the
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: show choir started calling. And his best friend had these
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: big cheeks and he was a trumpet player.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: It could blow them up.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: And I called him the blowfish and I just kept
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: calling bow Fish that everybody the show choir was called
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: the blowfish. And they walked into a party once in
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: my room in Myrtle Beach. We were playing singing somewhere
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: in Myrtle Beach and I was in my room and
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: they walked in to the room and I said, hey,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Hoody the bowfishes here. And I thought, my head, but
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Hooty the Bufish has to be the name of our band.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And I went back and said Mark, although they've been
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Hooty the bois and he said whatever, And we've been
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: hooting both ever since.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, just so I understand the timeline. While you were
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: playing with Mark, you were also in the choir.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we were still in college. We were living
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: on the dorm hall and we were still in college
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: and you know, we were just starting the band. I
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: mean I think that was the fourth third or fourth
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: time we ever played together when we played with the band.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, but the show choir was back home was associated
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: with the school.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Right, yes it was. It was at the universityth Carolina.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: It was called Lot.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, So what was it like being in the show
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: choir in college as opposed to high Oh.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: The big difference was the parties. I mean all we
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: do was party. You know.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: We went through these great places. We would get to
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: go to these great places, these great cities, you know, Pittsburgh,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: New York, you know, go down to Miami, you know,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: go to Hertle Beach, go all these places and get
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: to to get to sing, either in competitions or just
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: and just singing. And it was it was awesome, you know.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: And we were great. I mean we we I look
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: back in those days and we were great. I mean
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: everybody in there was a world class singer. You know,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of people were getting scholarships.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: That's this thing. And it was it was it was awesome.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I mean you really felt like you when you heard
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: other folks singing in that choir, you felt like you
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: were doing something because you were part of that.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: And what about the partying, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: What when you're in college to what degree that a
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: part of the show choir.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't back then the drugs learn so much,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: but the accident. The alcohol was prevalent. It was everywhere.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: It was you know, we were kids. You know, that's
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: what we were doing. You know, that's what we were doing.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: We were having a party. And but you know, we
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: were we were pros. Party didn't start till the show
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: was though, but but yeah, we could have a party.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: And how long after you start playing with Mark did
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you stop being in the show choir?
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Oh? Goodness, probably a year and a half after market
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: I started. After the band started, I stopped sitting to
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: the show choir. And it wasn't like, you know, I
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: just quit the show choir because the market marketing was
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: still in school, so it's not like we could just
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: get in the vans and go during the week or
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: anything or and so you know, and and all the
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: all the shows for the show choir we usually booked
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: before the semester started, so you know, when you were
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: at when I was going to be out of town
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: with them, So we just planned our shows around that.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you play out with Mark, the bell goes
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: off in your head. What's the next step?
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I found a drummer in the bass player and uh, Mark.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Can you tell this story about the girl and the
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: thoughts etc. That's in the book?
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Well? Which girl? Will Sony by the drummer. Well, you know,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: we our first drummer quit and uh, we were looking
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: for drummers, and uh, like seven guys were coming to
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: play with us one day and I saw Sony's name
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: on the list, and I told Mark and Dean that
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Sony wasn't going to be our drummer because I hated him.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: And the reason I hated him was my freshman year
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: in college, when I was in the show choir, I
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: had a friend. You know, I was still in the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: friend zone, but I was trying not to be in
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: the friend zone. But we were pretty tight. We hung
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: out a lot and uh. And so she calls me
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: up and tells me to come to her room, which
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: was seriously on the opposite end of campus from where
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: And so I'm all excited. I think today's today, you know.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: And I get up and I walk all the way
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: across campus, a twenty minute walk, probably twenty five minute walk,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: and I get to her room and she takes me
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: out seat. She rushes me outside, and she tells me
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: to stand on the bridge while she runs down and
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: take a picture of her. When she got I realized
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: when she was running down that she had written we
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: had these sand volleyball courts, and I realized she had
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: written in the sand I love Sony And I didn't
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: know who the Sony guy was, but I hated him.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: And then later I found out, you know who he
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: was and everything. But uh, yeah, I told him he
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: was never gonna be our drummer. But yeah, I was wrong.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: So where is that girl today?
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness, I haven't talked to Devin years. It's been
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you. I really haven't known it. I
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: haven't seen her in years.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, you become internationally famous, does everybody you ever knew
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork?
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of people have. Yeah, like I like when
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: we first got big, I saw her a couple times
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: in a couple of shows. It was great to see her.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: She was She's a wonderful human being. It's a wonderful
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: human being. And you know, it's still down. You know,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: I'll be playing a show in some city. A buddy
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: of mine that I grew up with, that I haven't
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: seen in thirty five years, you know, found me the
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: It's social media makes it so easy. You know, found
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: me on Instagram the other day. And you know he's
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: coming out to his show this week and people just
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: coming out of the woodwork and nine time is great.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it's it's that five percent when it was
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: somebody who didn't like back then. You know.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: But uh that that's a rarity.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: And how about people asking for money?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Uh that that's been a problem.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: You know, that's been something.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: That's the problem.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: I've gotten good at saying no. I've gotten really good
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: at saying no.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I think early on it's tough for me to say
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: no because I was doing so well, and you know,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I hate to see anybody. I know how hard it
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: must be for some people to do that. But uh,
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: I'm really good at saying.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Now, okay. Friend of mine, Steve Lucather, guitarist in Toto
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and other things, he says when he gives people money,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: just say it's a gift, because if you say it's alone,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: they don't pay it back. You ruin the friendship, et cetera.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: What's your experience been.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with that one.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I don't say it's a gift, and they always go bad,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pay you back, and I go okay,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: But in my mind giving it to him, because I
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: can honestly say, of all the times I've given money
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: to family or friends and they said they were going
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: to pay it back.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: I think maybe one person did.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So now you have the band, you have four
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: members in the band. What happens after that?
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: We start playing, you know, and we we play from
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: New York down to Florida and Tennessee and.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Who whoaaha, you get a band together. What are the
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: first couple of gigs?
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Oh? Just I was Chicken Wing Joy in Columbia. That
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: was right across the street from my dorm.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: We would literally carry our instruments from our dorm room
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: across the street and play at Pappy's and it was great.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not even there anymore. It's a bookstore now.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people, you know, bands start and
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: there's a member in the band who's hitting up every
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: club owner. It says, give us a gig, give us
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: a chance. What happened with your band?
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Sure we did that, you know, especially especially in the
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: first couple of years, where we just called clubs in
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: town that we knew had bands and tried to get in.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: And then you start calling outside of town, and you know,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: you start playing frats and you know, I guess we
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: got lucky early on. I think it was East Coast
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Booking or something was the David book Is. Somebody saw
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: us one night, liked us, and so they would.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Help us book that.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: They would help us book shows all you know, either
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: frat house here or some small club somewhere, and you know,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: so you just start playing and developing a reputation. And
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll say, you know, every club we ever played,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: we might have gone there the first time there was
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: ten people there, but the next time we came.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: There was forty.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Why because we were good, you know, we were good
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: and we were fun. And people would tell their friends,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: well that WHOI Wolf's band back in time. We gotta
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: go see them, And then the next time they be eighty.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Then the next time they'd be two hundred.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're the front band. It's your job. How do
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: you make it fun?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Oh? I never thought of it like that way. You know,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: for us, it was just let's go play our music,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I think it's still like that
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: when Hoodie's together. It's not it's not my job to
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: make it fun. We play music and we do what
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: we do and we hope you like it. I will
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: say to somebody the other day, the difference between playing
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: my country band and playing with Whodi is when I
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: play with Hoodie, I feel like I'm Jerry Garcia. I'm saying,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: I'm never with my guitar and my job is to
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: play guitar and say, you know. But when I play
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: with my country band, I feel like my job is
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: to be big jagger. I mean, and that's just two
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: different things. But with Hoody that's what we are as well.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: We were just we were four. We were a band.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: It wasn't anybody's band. There was no front man. We
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: were all the frontman.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I was just a guy, that's And at what point
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: did the money become such? He said, wait a second,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: this is real. Never mind not finishing school.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Oh before we before we made it, before we had
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: a record deal, I think two years about. We played
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: for seven years before we had a record deal, and
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: I think two or three years before before we got
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: a record deal, we each made like fifty sixty thousand
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: dollars each and we thought that was amazing. We were
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: making more than our friends that had graduated, and we're
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: working in all these different jobs.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: So it was like, you know, we're doing just fine,
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: we're doing all right.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: And that was how we felt, you know, Okay, we're
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: doing fun, and we're making money. We're playing a lot
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: of shows. We're making money, and we're working our buts off,
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: and we compare our bills and have money to go
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: out and drink and have money to buy clothes, and
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: it felt good. It felt like we were doing something right.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: At what point did you start to play original material.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, after the first couple of years, Like, yeah, Sony
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: came in. You know, we started in eighty six. We
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: started really writing songs in eighty eight, and Sony came
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: in the band in eighty nine. And when Sony came in,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: it was, you know, we went pretty much straight to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: eighty percent originals and you know, twenty percent covers unless
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: you were going to our frat house then you know,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: you do sixty forty.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Was there somebody in the band who said, wait a second,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: we have to write originals.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: No, that was just something we wanted to do. It
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: was never anything that anybody's sitting down and going, okay,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: we got to It was a you know, we just
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: started writing songs, you know, and we'd play them and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: and you know, it was for us. It was always
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: when we're in Columbia, let's play the new songs, because
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: those people have been listening to us for a while.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: If they don't like it, we should probably scrap. And
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: so that's how we started.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Now you're on the road and rock and roll band,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: you're paid in cash. Most people are not paying taxes
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: on most of that money. What were you guys doing?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Not us? We had our bass player was a business major,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: and we we would take half of everything we made
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: every night, put it away from taxes. Really every every night,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: every night. We sometimes we'd get mad. We would get mad,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: but uh, you know, we put away from taxes and
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: we pay taxes and everybody would get it all bad,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: you know, but we didn't want some day to make
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: it and then ours coming over what happened in these
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: three years you guys were playing.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had that experience in your career? With
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: the I R S came into what did you want?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: It?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Significant?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Some oh knuckle would no.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, because that's a typical rock and roll story.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: But we didn't live that story. I mean, Dean wouldn't
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: let us. We were sticklers with taxes and we were
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: sticklers were doing everything right, and because we didn't want
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: that to wrappen.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: So you're driving in a van. There are bands who
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: literally died with their van flips over. In addition, they
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: stayed in a hotel and the equipment is stolen. What
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: were your experiences going on the road for all these
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: years before you had a record deal?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: Oh goodness, it was usually good.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I mean we our first van sucked in the navy
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: seats in the back, so we'd lay on the ground
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: and the equipment would be there, and a couple of
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: times until somebody hit the brakes and thank god we
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: were all awake because we had all but sleeping. One
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: of us or too, was to be dead because the
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: equipment started to come forward, and you know, you got
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: up and got your hands up in time to stop
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: it from killing us. But uh, the worst thing that
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: ever happened to us. We were playing the Bayou and
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: DC and we were parked out back.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: Our fan was parked out back.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: We packed up the van with all the equipment and
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: we went out drinking and we at this point we
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: had one other guy with us, Jeff Poland with the
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: He was a slash bank tour manager, slash security. He's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: riding with us in the van, and we came back
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: and five of our guitarism and there was abandoned house
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: right next to the bayou, and we knew homeless folks
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: lived in there, and Jeff wasn't having it, and we
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: went into that house and we found all our guitars
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: and we beat a couple of people up with the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: guitars back.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: And no car accidents, No car accidents. We were lucky
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: with that. No car accidents. I mean when we finally
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: had a trailer once one of the guitars fell out
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: of the trailer that we didn't know and that that sucked.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: He lost a really good lass ball that day.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. Their bands they meet in high school, they travel
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: in vans. By the time they have the success, they
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: hate each other. And there's certainly mega bands where everybody
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: goes in their own limo. You know, you got four
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: guys in a van, et cetera. How harmonious was it?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: We were best friends. We were separable. I mean it
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: was we would go on the roads for three weeks,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: come home, I'm going to come home, And in an
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: hour of being home, we were calling each other to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: find out where we were going that night.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: We were always together and he loved it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, I know acts where you know, all
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, a couple of years after college, they
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: got parental pressure whatever. They had a girlfriend and they
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: said I'm stopping. Ready, the members of Hoodie the Blowfish saying, man,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I can't do this for another year. I'm
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: thinking of quitting.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: Uh huh huh. No, that's that four of us. I mean,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: our first drummer quit, Our first drummer left the band.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: He he you know, he was he was really religious
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: in this. I mean, his family didn't want him playing
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: in the band. And we understood that and we respected that.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: It was probably a good thing because then Sony wouldn't
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: be in the band and we would have home my
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: hand and you know, some other stuff and so but uh,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: the four of us, it was ever that. It was
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: never I'm gonna quit. It was we won't play until
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: we make it.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Was there a conscious thing because you're making
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: good money at this point and you're living quite a life.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Was there a conscious thing? We got to get a
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: record deal, We're going to be big stars.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: At first, at first, that was that though I don't
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: think we ever said we're going to be big stars,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: especially the nineties when grunge took over, you know. But uh,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: at first it was that do we got a record
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: deal with a company like Capricorn Records or something I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: think it was called, and uh we got a record
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: that was so excited and they went under before we
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: made our record, and that really, I think put a
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: bad taste in our mouth labels, and so we we
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: weren't drying to get a record deal because we were
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: making money. We were playing shows, we were we were
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: selling out, you know, like I said, I'm from New
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: York down to Florida and all every every state, every
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: six weeks, the same clubs selling them out, you know,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: even some towns moving to a little theater because we
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: were doing so well. So we if a record deal came, great,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: If not, we're just gonna keeping make playing, keep making music.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: But then Atlantic comes around. So are you once beaten
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: twice shy or how does what goes on there?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: No? We put when we put Kouchi Pop out, which
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: was our EP that wrapped for Crack Review. Uh, we
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: put that out and we sold like sixty five thousand
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: copies out of the back of our van and at
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Mama Pop stores.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: All around the Carolinas and Georgia and.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Stuff, and and Atlantic was the only one that came.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, there were a few labels that wanted to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: come see this band that was out selling YouTube and
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Pearl Jam down in the Carolinas, you know, and they
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: wanted to sign us. And you know, it was like, okay,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: let's go make a record. You know, hopefully we'll sell
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: two undred thousand copies. They'll let us make another one.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: So how'd you end up using Gone Gaming? We talked
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: about a few We talked to a few producers, like
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: good names, really good names, and we met Don And
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: the minute we met Don, we knew he was our producer.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: He was such a calming, laid back, affeelable, invuncular presence
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: in our lot instantly, and we knew we wanted that guy.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: And he had also done an RM record and he
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: had done those Melicat records. You know, it was like, yeah,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: we want to sound like that.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: So what was the experience of making the record?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Like, oh man, our first record was you know, the
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: four of us all lived in the same house, two
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: bedroom apartment we lived in to make that record.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: And it was it was us against the world. It
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: was awesome.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: You know. We drove in the studio together every day,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: we hung out all day. After the studio, we ate
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: together and went home and watched TV together. We went
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: out the bars together. It was awesome. It was it
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: was exactly what we needed to make our first record,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: and it was it was never work. It was never working.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: It was it was always God, we're working with Dog
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: gave it. We're going to make this damn record. This
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: is crazy, Okay.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: A lot of people make the first record and when
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: they're done, they're not happy. They feel they were pushed
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: around by the label or the producer who didn't sound
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: the way they wanted to do. When the record was done,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: how did you feel about the record?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I remember taking I thought that we played
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: everything too slow, but that you know, that's because we
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: were still playing used to playing live, and you know
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: those click tracks you know, you're drinking songs just get
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: faster when you're that in that atmosphere.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: But I thought it was a great record.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you deliver the record to Atlantic and they say,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: this is ship. We don't want to do anything with it.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say they say it was ship. You know,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: there were a couple of people up in Atlantic, they
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: said it was ship you know. Uh, you know, actually
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Daddy Gober who was the president, loved it. You know,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Tim Summer right and our guy loved it. You know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: there were people up there that thought it was really cool.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: But there were a couple of people who were important
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: that didn't like it because their mind, their mind was
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: on grunge, their mind was on what was popular at
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: the time, what was what was the big thing, you
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: know at the time, and we weren't grunge. And I
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: still think the greatest line of that type of our
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: lives was the guy who said that that if Atlantic
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: put that record out, there would be the laughing stock
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: of music.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: That's a direct quote. I just always laugh at that.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: You know, we all laugh at that.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sure Atlantic that I bet the guy that says
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: that that laughs at that.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Now, Well, in this process between the record being finished,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: in the record gaining traction, what was your mood, in
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: the mood of the rest of the band, We're like, no,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: this is still gonna happen, or man, we cut this
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: record and they're not going to get behind it.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, we do, we do. We knew they were gonna
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: get behind it, you know. I mean, they didn't give
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: us anybody to make it, so we knew. So our attitudes.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Let's go out and play shows and get people to
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: go out and buy it. You know, Let's go up
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: and play. Let's do what we're doing and tell them
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: on stage we got a new record out. Yeah, go
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: buy a record. Let's start. Let's tell two hundred thousand
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: copies and get to make another one.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: We were we were never woe is me. We were
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: never those folks. We were never victims. You know.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: We were on a major recordable man. You know, let's
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: just go out and play. Let's keep doing exactly what
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: we were doing.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: When was the first time you heard the song on
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: the radio?
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean the the week the single came out,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: we called My Head came out as a single. We
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: heard it Columbia on the radio, you know, and it
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: was wow, there we are on the radio.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: You know, it was awesome.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, were you know there were stations in Columbia
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: and Charleston and Bertle Beast that were playing the song,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: you know, but it just wasn't nationwide yet.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, at what point did you get a manager and
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: a major agent?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, we got a manager before Coucie Pop, like when
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: we were when we were we were making our very
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: first EP. We got a manager. But he was just
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: some dude that we do. It wasn't like he was
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: a big time. He was just some dude. We know that,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: and we need people to make phone calls and stuff.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: That could be our manager. You know, we got a
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: major booking agent, probably right after Letterman, you know, right
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: after Letleman as well.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: We led a major booking agency.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: So how long did you stay with that booking agent?
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: Oh? Forever?
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: We we I don't think we left him. We were
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: living with them for six years, maybe six seven years.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: And how did you get rid of the garage manager?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: He was what We kept him for ten years or
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: probably more. Maybe I'm sure it's more than that. You know,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: he was just our manager.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: It was he was.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: He was part of our group. He was just one
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: of us, you know, and so we kept him forever.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And then finally he just wasn't working out for us.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: We didn't like some of the decisions he made and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: some things he did, and we just decided to move on.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: And when we talked McGee.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: So, how did you decide on Doc?
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: Oh? I knew when we were when we were firing Rusty,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Doc was going to be a manager. We hadn't met
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: Doc a couple of times, and he loved us like
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Doc was a Rusty's bental and and and you know
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the joke was he would know Russey would call Doc
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: and ask him what he should do, and when Doc
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: told him what to do, he would do the exact opposite.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: And so, uh, you know, Doc was a no brainer
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: for us.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: And what did Doc do that Rusty couldn't do?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Goodness, exactly what Doc said he was gonna do. He
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: said that, uh, we're gonna tour less and make a
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: lot more money, and we're gonna do it the right way.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what he did.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Well, a little bit more granular, What did he actually
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: changed so that came true?
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean everything, he streamlined everything we didn't have.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: We we didn't say yes to the opening of of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: a doenvelope anymore, you know, we we made what we
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: did special. He made people see what we did, we're
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: doing a special. And he was Doc McGee. Doc McGee
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: calls you. You take the phone call and so he just
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: big time managed us and he made it. He made
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: being us something that was cool and important, and just
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: do it on a bigger scale.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: Like it's like John bun Joey said to me.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: When we looked where were when we fired RUSI, we're
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: looking for managers. I called John and I asked him
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: what he thought about Doctor, and he said, Doc will
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: take what you want to do in a theater and
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: you'll do it in a in the stadium.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: And that was Doc.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: And you're still with Doc, right.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not with Doc anymore? No, Doc, Doc's I'm pretty
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: much retired these days. I'm with the Maverick now with
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: Clarence Faulding. But uh yeah, you know Doc is still
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: my dad. I still call him for advice every week.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: So how'd you decide who your new manager would be?
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: I do, Clarence. I've got Clarence you know, around here
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: in Nashville. And uh I liked them, and you know,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: at this point of my career, at the point I
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: went with Class I guess about five six years ago. Now,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just want somebody that I liked, that
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I get that that that wants to work would be
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: you know that wants to take what I have and
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: maximize it and not work my butt off and make
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: me do things I don't want to do. And so
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: when Clarence and I had a meeting, because I met
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: with every manager pretty much in Nashville, who is somebody
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: and you know it was it was definitely Clarence for me.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that definitive performance on Letterman oh Man.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: You know, the legend goes that, uh, you know Letterman
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: artists in the radio on Tuesday.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: It was it was it was a DJ. The DJ
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: had heard whom I.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Had in a meeting and they weren't gonna add it.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: You know, it was it was drivetime DJ. They were
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: gonna add it, and he loved the song, and you said,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna play this song. You gotta tell me what
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: you think? What do you think? Was the only time
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: they had ever played it, And you know, Letterman hears
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: it on the drive home from the show, and you know,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: the legend is that he pulled over and called his
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: book engagent and said, I want this band on my
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: on my show.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: This is Tuesday.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: We were on the show on Friday, and first of
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: we got a phone call on Wednesday, week Wednesday morning.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: We didn't believe it. We thought our manager was fucking
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: with us. You know, no way, because we were says
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: fans of the show. I mean that was a staple
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: for us, watching Letterman and no way, there's there's no way,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: David Levond, you know. And we got a show in
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: Colombia that night. You know, we can't. You know, that's
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: the biggest show we've ever had in Columbia, the four
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: thousand people. You know, we got to play the show.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: We'll get take the TV show, you know. And the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: first time the label stepped up and got us a plane,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: you know. And I always say we played, we drove
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: to uh we we flew to Florida. That we flew
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: to New York that day and we we we couldn't
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: get on the radio anywhere.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: Except the Carolina's and we left in that Monday. We
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: were the most added for the next eight days in
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: a row.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: It was it just it changed our lives.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, that album crack re review becomes a phenomenon and
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: the band is everywhere. What was it like being on
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: the ride? Oh we did, We didn't see it. All
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: we saw was that we were so insulated with the
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: four of us. That that was a that was the
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: point in our career where if you wore a black
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: T shirt, the other three guys.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: Would destroy you. You know.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: It was we were so insulated and so conscious of
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: each other that all we saw was it the shows
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: were getting bigger, and you know, we were doing you know,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: there's more TV shows calling us. That's just the play.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: That's how we saw. The shows were getting bigger, and
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: we're doing a little bit more TV.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: That's good. We're good with that, you know. And then
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: the money started coming in.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're so successful that ultimately a backlash begins. Do
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: you experience that at all?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: Of course, of course, you know, of course you experienced it,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: And it was the thing that we had going for
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: us with that was that even when we played clubs
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: and we were becoming the biggest bands in the clubs,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: you know, other bands didn't respect us. You know, they
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: either called us a cover band or they were you know,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: those guys playing that pop music. You know, they so
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: like we wouldn't even write our names on the walls
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: the clubs were players. Because we knew when we came
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: back somebody would be talking ship under Yeah, so when
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: that happened, it was just like, okay, but we're still
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: sell our baskets, Square Guard, three Nights in the road.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: You know, we still you know, we're still going to
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: number one five times.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, you y'all will have to like us, because everybody
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: out there that's a couple to see us loves us.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: And you emphasize in the book that you're living the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: rock and roll lifestyle.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, we were having a party. We were It was
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: a flat out, flat out party.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was everything you expected, you know, sex, drugs,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: and rock and roll.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: It was. It was so much fun.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: So no regrets, you say that was great. Glad I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: got to do it.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: None. I'm glad. I'm glad all the four of us
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: came out the other side. Okay, I'm glad the four
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: of us could be these guys who the party's over for.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: But we had a great time when it was going.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: No regrets.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: What can you tell us about women on the road?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: So they were there. I want to tell you about
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: that they were.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so a certain number of women were willing. Did
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: you have an interest in these women beyond one night?
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Did some of these women have an interest in you
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: beyond one night when you weren't interested.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Sure, I had girlfriends, you know, I had I dated
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: people here and there, but uh, you know, at that point,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: it was it was so hard to date anybody because
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: we were traveling all the time. We were never off
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: the road, you know, so it was hard to date anybody.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, it was it was all about fun,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: you know. And there were folks you hung out with
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: and you saw more than once and you hung out,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: but it was it was that it was that this man.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: It was you know, the hedonistic lifestyle. And what about
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: drugs everywhere? You know, it was everywhere. We yeah, you know,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: we did our share and probably some other people share too.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: We had a real good time.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: The first check comes in, what do you buy?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: First check came out, I paid off my student loan
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: and bought a truck, the first truck I ever was
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the first utumbild of my life.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Yep, okay, tell me about the experience of the second record.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think we made that record too quick.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: I've said that before, but you know, Marx just really
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: wanted to make a record and we we we're banned,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: and you know, somebody feels strongly about it. You can
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: talk us into it, we'll all do it. So we
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: It was a great experience, you know. We we we
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: rented a big house in l A. We went, we
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: reread it. Uh, we went. We were up in the
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: hills of Sarah Fell and we just stayed. We stayed
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: at the studio and we thought it was great because
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: everybody had their own room. And but it was it
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: was us, a dog and the engineer and you know,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: a couple of other people, and we ate there and
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: we worked out there, and we played golf right down
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: the street, and it was a great experience. It was
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: just once again us against the world.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: So in retrospect, was it the record was released too
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: soon or the record didn't have it or both?
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the I think it's a better record
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: to crecor review. I just think we put it out
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: too soon. I mean, you know, our label wanted to
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: put out one or two more singles, and their words,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: not our words, go after thriller, you know, that's what
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: they wanted to do. But uh, you know we did,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: and you know, we sold five or six million copies
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was. You know, that was considered a flop.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: After selling whatever wherever we were at that time with
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: record Review.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, at this point in time, do you still get
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: royalties from the Hoodie Records?
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, every week every year.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: And do you own the songs you wrote?
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: We knew yes.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: And in this crazy rule to the last six eight
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: years where everybody's selling their publishing in royalties, were you
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: ever approached? Would you ever do that?
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: Oh? We get approach all the time, and I don't
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: plan to do it. I mean that for me, that's
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: an annuity for my kids. And you know, I don't
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: need the hard earned I don't need the hard money
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: and my bank account or anything you know from that
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: when I know that the money's going to come eventually.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: But uh, you know, and people ask the Bible kind
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: all all the time. You know, I'm not really interested
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: in that right now.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: So at what point do you realize that whod he
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: peaked with the first record and it's not going to sustain?
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: And how does that feel?
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: Oh? I said that before we went into the second record.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: That was that was a direct thing I said to
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: the band. You guys know that what we just went
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: through is an anomaly and that just doesn't happen like that.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can look at the history of music
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: and the history of the biggest records in the world.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, you look at Michael Jackson from Thriller
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: to Bad, you know, it just doesn't sustain.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: We just wanted to keep playing playing music at the
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: level we were playing it, and we got.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: To So what comes first, your country career or the
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: winding down of Hoodie?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, the winding down of Hoodie for sure. I mean
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: I would have I don't think I would have ever
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: gone to Nashville if someone hadn't come in and said
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: he didn't want to tour anyone. You know, that was
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: our job. We toured every year. That was what we
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: did for a living. We went out in the summer,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: and so that was just what we were doing. And
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: until you know, one of the band members said didn't
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: want to do that anymore, that's what we want to done,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: we'd probably still be doing it that way.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, you have this great success in the country world,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: how do you decide to work with Hoodie again?
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: We had we had not played in ten years. In
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: nineteen we hadn't played in ten years. And to be
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: honest with you, when they came to me with it,
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't enthusiastic about it. I wasn't because I remember
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: the end and when we stopped playing, you know, we
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: would still play the fourteen thousands either, but there'd only
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: be nine thousand people there, you know. And when you
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: look out there and there's five thousand depty seats, that sucks.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's nine thousand people there, but yeah,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: there's five thousand depty seats the place that we used
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: to sell out. And so that was such. So I
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: said in the meeting that I didn't want to I
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: didn't want to play if it wasn't gonna be huge.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: That was my exact words, this is not gonna be huge.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do it. I don't want to
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: do what I don't want to go back and do
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: what we were doing before we decided to do that,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: before we broke, before we stopped playing, and everybody in
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: that meeting was like, what's gonna be big. It's gonna
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: be big. And then the day after that meeting, I
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: was playing somewhere, uh and I flew into the place
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm walking back to my dressing room and Rob Light,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: who is the CEO.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: Of of c A, a head of music at the
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: top yeah, see he still lives.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he got promoted whatever it. Then let's talk
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: get into the details.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: He runs the show. He's one of the one of
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: the guys who started CIA exactly. And uh, I'm walking
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: to my I'm walking into my addressing room. Mate Rob's
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: standing there, and I know Robin our friends, we beg friends,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: We've been there. You know golf, we have that golf
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: thing that we'd love to do together. And he's standing there.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh man, you came. I was like,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: what are you doing here? Let's go alone to talk
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: to you. And we went to the He had been
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: dispatched to tell me this thing is going to be
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: fucking huge, and they were right.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: That King was huge. Billboard Magazine toward the year it
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: was huge.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Why do you think it was huge?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: People missed it, People missed us playing and it had
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: been ten years since who they had been out And
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of people when we stopped playing
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: that came to see us every year. You know, we
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: see a lot of the safe faces every year, and
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: it was ten years without that, and the nostalgia, God,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: I want to experience that again kicked in and it
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: was huge.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: So going forward, how much, shooty, how much.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Solo from this point on? Yeah, this is probably my
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: last thuty who blow for your store? I don't know
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: if I'm going to do this again, so you know,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: just pretty much solo. I mean, you know, this has
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: been such a great run and it's been fun. But
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm almost sixty. I don't even know how
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: much long I don't want to play, you know, so
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: like I want to do I want to do country
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: music for a while, for a long while.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: And how many gigs a year have you been doing
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: over the last ten years?
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: Fluctuations between saba D and one hundred and twenty? It
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: could get you know, go like I think, who he's
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: playing fifty or sixty? They shit here, so you know it,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: it fluctuates.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, So what point in the hoodie career did you
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: say I want to make a country record.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: I would saying that since the late eighties, you know,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: since whody really started. You know, there was actually a
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: moment when things kind of died down where I tried
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: to talk to guys into making the country records, like
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: let's just go and consciously make a country record, and
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: nobody wanted to do it, you know, Okay, we'll just
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: keep doing what we're doing.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, just in this interim between you start your country
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: career and you reunite with Hoodie, what is your relationship
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: with the other three members.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, we're brothers.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: You know. When we see each other, it's great, you know.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: But when you stop playing, and as much as we
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: were playing, you stop really hanging out a lot. You know,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: you call each other and play around the golf, you know,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: call each other and go have a beer or a beat.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: But but it wasn't like we were seeing each other
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: every day, you know. But we were still in touch
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: all the time. We were friends, like we're like brothers.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you tell Doc you want to make a
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: country record, and Doc says.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: He really just said okay.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: And I mean I made it clear to him that
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: I wasn't looking for a record deal because I didn't
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: think I could get a record deal the country music
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the pop black guy cutting over the country music.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: What label?
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: And I told him, if you're gonna get me a
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: record with, if you're gonna get me a label with
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: Joe Schmow Records or some indie label, I'd rather do
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: it myself. I'd rather just get my buddies and go
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: do it myself and just make it for me, you know.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: But you know Doc doesn't do things that way. You know,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: he does things like we said, you want to do
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: it in the theater, and he does at the stadium.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: And a couple of weeks later he had been a
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: record deal with Capitol Records.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: And what was the experience of cutting the record?
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: Awesome? Right it and cutting was awesome. It was awesome,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: Frank Rogers, my producer, was wonderful, you know, playing Brad
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: Hazy coming and singing all playing a single was awesome.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Vince Gill coming in. You know, it was awesome to
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: be a Nashville making that record, making a country a
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: real country record. That was the one thing that that
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: me and Frank really wanted to do. We wanted to
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: make a country record and we did and it was
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite experiences making the recorder.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, the record is done. Do you think you're going
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: to have a hit on the chart?
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: No, I did not think that.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: I it was another one of the situations where I
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: was hoping they would let me make a number one.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: I hope it did well enough that I could make
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: a number one, because.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: You know, the rock pop guy coming over is so
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: proud upon a Nashville.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: I'm so proud upon him.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: But more than that, I hadn't seen anybody that looked
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: like be on the charts for twenty five years. You know,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: Charlie had been twenty five years since Charlie probably had
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: his last hit. And there hadn't been anybody that had
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: a top forty hit since, you know, And you know,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: talking to some folks and being told that they just
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: never thought their audience would accept the black country sing.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: You know, so I don't know what I I don't know.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: If I didn't expect, I thought I might have a
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: minor hit, you know, something that maybe cracks in top
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: Floridian makes a little noise. But you know, once again,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: you know, Mike Doung in the Capitol said to me
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: when he when he signed, when he went, I was
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: the first meeting. Now I sided with him that if
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: I gave him, if I gave him the record, he
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: would give me a shot. And he worked and they
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: worked their button butts off. They worked their butts off well.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: In the book you talk about how you worked your
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: buttle I did.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: But you know that's of course I didn't. It's my record.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: If if I'm not gonna work it, why should anybody else?
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: So what did you do for that first record? I
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: went to one hundred and ten radio stations, No five
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: days a week, going to two or three radio stations
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: a day, five days a week. Went to one hundred
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: and ten of those days, and it worked.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's once again go a little more granular. You
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: go in, you're selling. Okay, what is your pitch? How
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: do you convince people? How do you get them on
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: your team?
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: Oh? My pitch was simple, you know for me.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: You know, you know Jimmy Harden who went with me
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: a lot, and uh, you know, the label was really
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: trying to get it. But when I talked to people,
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: I said the same thing. You know, if you like
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: the record, play it. If you don't, I understand. I wasn't.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: I wasn't in their bagging. I wasn't there going I'm
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: Darius Rucker, who your blowfishes to play on record? You know,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: it wasn't anything like that. I was just, you know,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: glad to be in the room for a second, you know,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: and if you like it, play it.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: If not, I understand.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: But there was more than that. To what degree did
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: you work your charm to try to make them feel
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: good about you personally such that that would help to
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: play the record. I didn't. That wasn't.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: I just went in and that was me. I really
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: was never in there trying to overly charm anybody or
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: make anybody. It was just go in there and be
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: yourself and be a nice guy that you are and
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: talk to people. You know a lot of people like
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: the Probably the only reason I got into a lot
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: of those buildings is because of who need a bothish,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and so just go in and play the
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: song that if they want you to sit in the
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: conference room and play some songs for you know, play
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: some songs for for the for the employees, you know,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: if you're lucky enough play play the song acoustically on
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: the radio. You know, just just go in and be
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: you and they like you, they'll play it. If they don't, they't.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: And to what degree of you maintained relationships with the
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: people of radio.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I so many guys like probably to do guys
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: that uh that told me didn't think their audience would
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: play you know, we'll accept a black sat or my
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: best buddies, you know, And I'm still for I see
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: folks all the time and friends with them, and you know,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: they they're they're you know, I think a lot of
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: people are thankful, relieved and happy that that that there's
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: you know, there's now radio start. You know, there's you
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: get to see so many app more African Americans came
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: brown and other guys having hits and stuff like that,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: and and it's just people are like, this is cool.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: You know, this is good for cuntry, this is good
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: for everybody.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: What's the difference between being on Atlantic, a rock and
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: roll label, and Capital and national and country label.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Capitol in Nashville really cares about me and will work
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: their butt off and do anything for me.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: And let the just use us. That's the difference. They
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: just used us.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: And how often will you interact with the people at
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: Capital all the time all the time?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, City Babe, the new president, we're ted.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: We text all the time with friends of all the time.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: All the people who work up there. We were friends.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: And the world has changed and country music fans do stream.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: So to what degree have you fostered relationships with Spotify, Apple, Amazon?
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: I've got friends in all those places you know, you
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: meet because you have to meet those fives. You've got
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: to go in their offices and hang out and do
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: all that. And you know, streaming is is so important.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: It's the new way that kids are getting music. And
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: not even kids now, everybody's getting music. And so the
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: cloth red relationships. And you know, I'm sure when they
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: can help you, they can, they do, and they don't,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: you know they don't.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: And to what degree are you Internet addicted TikTok, Instagram,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Spotify or are you old school?
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of old school, but you know, I'll look
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: at Instagram, I'll look at you know X, that's that's
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: you know, those of those Some of those places are
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: where I get my news. So yeah, you're going to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: read it. But uh, you know, I'm not big on
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: I don't think.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: I think I've been on TikTok three times in my life,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and I'm simple, I'm animals.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the record goes to number one? Does that
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: blow your mind?
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, it brought tears to my eyes. I couldn't believe that.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: Uh that don't think. I don't think about that when
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: number one it was the number one song country music.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: It was. It was amazing.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: And at what point do you feel you were embraced
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: by the Nashville community.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: I think when I was asked to join the Opry,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: it was the first time I really felt like I
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: was part of Nashville, that was part of country music.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: I got invited to join the Opry and that was
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: just a great moment.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, when I came to Nashville, I stided
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: told Doc I wanted to play the Opery as much
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: as I could.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: I wanted to play as much as they would let me,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 3: and I did.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: And uh, you know, one day I was playing, and
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Brad Paisey stood up in the audience and
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: asked me if I wanted to be the news member
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: of the Country I love the Grandal Opery, and I
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: didn't believe it. I thought he was pranking me, you know,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: And it was just that moment where, you know, really
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: that moment I really thought to myself, Wow, I made it.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm in.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: And the first album runs its course. How much pressure
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: do you feel for the second album? Uh?
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: None, none, you know, because I had the team in
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: place and I knew that capital was going to be there.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: They weren't going to abandon me. I knew all I
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: had to do was make give given themselves, you know,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: And so we started working on that, and you know,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: it felt good to know that my label wasn't going
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: to abandon me. They were in, we were going to
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: do this. Let's do this.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: And to what degree did your experience with HOODI in
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Atlanta inform your choices?
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 3: Uh? I?
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: Also I didn't think about I didn't think much about
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: that when we were doing the country stuff because I
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: felt like I was in such a different situation. You know,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: there was nobody. The guy who saw me was the
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: president of the latter so I was in good hands.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: He was gonna he told me, you do, I will
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: give you a shot. He gave me a shot, and
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: I knew if I gave him another record, I was
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: gonna get another shot. And so I didn't even think
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: about the past. I was thinking about, you know, what
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: are we gonna do now?
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Hoodie breaks. MTV is still a thing, The
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: Internet is not a thing. Songs are bigger than they
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: ever are today. You then have success into the twenty
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: first century in country music when irrelevant of the record,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: the landscape is different. Do you find that people know
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: your country music as well as your hoodie music?
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely when we see it doing the hoodie shows.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: Right now, we play wagon wild all right, he plays
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: the rupts. You know, it's this this, It's so funny.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: There's people in the world that don't even know that
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: I was a singarete who like it was probably goodness.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: It was not even a year ago. And this guy
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: comes into my DMS and he asked me why I
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: played somebody covers at my show And I said to him, man,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: I only played like two covers, maybe three.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 3: What you talk about?
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: He said, well, you played all those hoodis must be
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: a big he said, you must be a big fan
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: of Like, dude, I'm the Bofish And he was like,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: no way, go believes it. And I mean and a
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: lot of the younger kids are shots when they don't
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: know that I'm that I'm the lead singer for the Bothfish,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: that all they know is that I'm Darius Country.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: Say okay, and you're in the mailstream. You're an African
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: American and a traditionally white medium. The main story in
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: our world today is politics, red versus blue. What do
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: you see, and is it possible to bring the country together, you.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: Know, I hope it's possible to really cut together, because
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: I think we're always we're always the best when where united,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: you know, like after nine to eleven, even though it
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: was a brief time that that was great for the catch,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: how much we were all together. You know, everything right
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: now so divisive. Everything's so divisive, and the politicians and
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: the media seems to want to keep us that way
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: because that way they all make more money, and they
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: all you know, but uh, you know, I just wish
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: people would realize at the end of the day, we're
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: all just Americans, man, you know, and and we should
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: we should be able to come together on some important stuff.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: But it just doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: And because of the divided nation and being a prominent
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: in country music, we have the bud Light situation, we
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: have all the we have all these black and white
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: not in terms of race, but some of them are issues.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: Does that make you reluctant to stand up or to
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: make certain decisions to work with different people.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: I'll work with anybody that doesn't.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to not be friends with
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: somebody or not work with somebody because they're politics.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: Let me say different. Okay, Elon Musk, who has come
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: out in support of Trump. If Elon he doesn't do advertising,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: but let's say he got a hold of you and
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: wanted to tie you up with Tesla, you would say okay,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: or you would say wait, this is a dangerous subject.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: I would say it's a dangerous subject.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: I stay out of politics, man. I believe what I believe.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do what I want to do.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: And the sad part about politics for me right now
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: is there was a time in American history where it
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: was okay to say, I'm not gonna be friends with
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: that guy because he's white. Well, I'm not gonna be
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: friends with that guy because he's black. Well I'm not
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: gonna be friends with her because he's a woman. I'm
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: not gonna be friends with those And now it's like,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're conservaible.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're liberal.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: You know, for me, that's just bullshit. So I stay
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: out of it. I stay out of it. Don't even
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it. You know, it is I
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: believe what I believe? You know, I hope the country
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: can find a way to come together. But you know
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: it's just so divisive.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: So you would not endorse political candidate?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: I will?
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: I would say, I would say I would, though I
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: never will. But it's like, you know, I'm not I'm
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: not How do you say this? I am not eatistical
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: enough or or narcissistic enough to think that I should
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: be telling people how to vote. Everybody's got their own vote.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: There's enough stuff out there for you to decide how
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: you want to vote. Why should I tell you? That's
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: not something I've ever.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: Wanted to do. Do you vote every here?
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: Okay? You live in Nashville. Now, what's the difference between
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Nashville and South Carolina?
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: Nothing? There both very red states.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you ever take commercial transportation or only private?
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 3: I fly, yeah, fly plays all. I fly a commercial
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: a long time.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, you fly commercial? To what degree? Is do people
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: know who you.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: Are all the time all the time?
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: And is that a good thing or a bad thing?
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: It's a good thing. It's going to suck when people don't.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: You know. The byproduct of success in my business is
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: that so that means I don't have a success.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: And as a result of your fame, you've met incredible people.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: Who have you met that? Who have you not met
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: that you want to meet?
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness, who if I've not met that?
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: I want to be. Uh, that's a great question.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Oh good Every time I think it's not when I go,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: I think I met him. You know, the day I've
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: met Paul McCartney was the day that everybody else can
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. But the day I've bet alt greed,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: you know, the times I've got to hang out without greeding.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: You know, No, you know, I guess right now. If
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: I had to think of one person I want to bet,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: I want to be Keith Richards and a Vic Tacker.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'd love to beat the guys with the stoves.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: How'd you meet Paul McCartney? Tell me about that he
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: was having a show and I was taking my kids
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: to Tampa to see the show, and uh, you know,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: we're I think we're under the same management group, Maverick.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: And I called Clarence and I said, Clarence, if you
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: never do anything for me ever again, I'll be okay,
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: But you have to get me to meet Paul McCartney
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: and he did and I cried, yes when he walked away,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: I cried.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: So a little bit slower because I've met Paul McCartney
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: a few times. You know, meeting a celebrity, especially in
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: a live performance thing is a very unique thing. How
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: did it literally happen? And what was literally said?
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't do a great and so uh we were.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: They took us backstage and he was about he was
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: when he what he done with this interaction was done.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: He walked straight to the stage and he comes out
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: and he knew who I was with shock me, and
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we had a conversation. I told him I
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for him, and
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: he was not important to me.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: And we had.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: A great conversation and took a picture and he had
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: on the sergeant upper jacket that maybe lose my mind,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: and it was.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: Just it was a beautiful thing.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: It was like he was They tell you not to
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: meet your idols, but it meeting him was damn, We're
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: worth it.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: He was. He was a gentleman. He was a great guy.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: And did he say anything of dope, Oh, you know,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: he was about to go in.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't like we had a deep conversation, right,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: you know, he was like, just keep playing music.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: He was like, you know, I've heard some of your songs.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 3: I love him. I like what you do? You know,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: keep doing it. It was great.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: And what about Al Greed? Oh it was great for me.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: I met Al a couple of times. And the second
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: time I met out, I was doing this Al Greed
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: tribute and he was there and we were backsaced talking
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: and I had covered one of his songs about R
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: and B record and he told me he really liked
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: my version, and that was pretty awesome.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, you have this autobiography. People said, I mean, there's
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: not a week goes by that I don't get one
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: of these books. And interestingly, Alan Eisenstock, who was your
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: co writer, he's a personal friend, so that was kind
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: of interesting. But what made you write this book? Now?
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: I was first, you know, I've been asked to write,
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: you know, a memoir for for so long and I
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: kept staying no, no, and no, and you know, they,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: to be honest with me, they came. They came like
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: big dogs to get me to write it this time,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: you know, and I Ala said I wouldn't write it
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: till my kids were old enough. We're adults, so they could,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: you know, deal with be telling the truth because I
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: was going to tell the truth and they were adults
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: and it was just okay. And actually, when Al and
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: I started writing it, it was it was so therapeutic.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: It was it was it was I'm so glad I
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: did it.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: And the funny thing about the book is I actually
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: got hooked on the book about a quarter the way
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: through and sat in the chair and finished it. The
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: book is really a good read. What is your experience
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: been since the book has come out?
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: It's amazing. You know.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: Most people that have talked to me about it have said,
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: you know, it feels like I'm sitting in a bar
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: with you and me telling the story. And that's exactly
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: what we wanted. We wanted to be like, you're sitting
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: with a friend who's telling you the story in their lives,
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's been amazing. I'm you know, I'm
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: a New York Times bestselling author right now. Just saying that,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: you know, makes me want to giggle. You know, it
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: was it was every interaction I've had to people who
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: read it, even my friends, especially my friends or they're like,
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I learned stuff that I had no idea about.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: And you know, every every interaction I've had about my
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: book has been positive, and it's been really awesome.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: So what is your everyday life like now? How book
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: did or do you have any relaxation time where you
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: just basically work at three hundred and sixty five days
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: a year.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: I work a lot. I work a lot to the
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: point where I was I was pitching at my manager
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: today because I don't work a lot. But uh, you know,
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: I've got a happy life. You know, I got three
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: wonderful kids, are adults that I get to see when
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: there when their lives are too busy. And I got
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: a wonderful girlfriend who I probably spend the rest of
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: my life with, you know. And you know I live
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: in a great neighborhood Nashville. I got a great place
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: at Charleston. I'm on the road when I want to
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: be on the road. You know, I was good.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: I get to see my brothers and sisters all the time.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, life was just good.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: Now, you were married for a good chunk of time
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: and then you got divorced. To what degree did the
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: job you have contribute to the end of that relationship.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, especially the years we were together and where
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: I was mentally. You know, I was you know, I
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: was out there and I was partying and I was
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: having a great time. And you know, totally, like I've
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: said this before, that breakup was on me.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: It was all me.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, you know, through a lot of therapy
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: and you know, a lot of soul searching and really
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of giving up that lifestyle. You know, I've
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: become a better person and I live a better life.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes things are just over. And so
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: I would say my lifestyle and what I did for
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: a living was one hundred percent reason for that.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: And what will be different with this new girlfriend.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not that guy anymore, you know, I really I'm
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: a homebody now. I don't want to do you know,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do anything. So, you know, so
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: I go work and I come home and don't play
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: golf right you know, by but four minutes from where
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: I live and I'm home. I don't want to go
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: out drinking with you. Don't call me to go drinking
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: because I'm not going to go. You know, you want
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: to go to dinner. I go to sit and have
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: dinner with even have a bottle of wine. But I'm
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: going home and I don't want to go to the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: right door. I don't want to go. And like Louis,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: like I said, is your therapy? I've I've dealt with
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: my devons and I'm still dealing with them and I've
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: figured out a way to beat them.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: How did you decide to go to therapy?
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: It was just, you know, I'd go into a couple
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: of people, but then I found the right guy. And
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: when you find the right person to talk to and
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: talks back to you and gives you exercises of things
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: to make you be a better person, you know, life
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: gets a lot better.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: So what is one thing that your therapist told you
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: that help was helpful?
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: Goodness? It's a big things, you know. One thing that
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: was huge for me was how he you know, to
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: let let go on the guilt. You know, that was
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: tough for me, you know the way I was raised
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: and where I was.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: That was hard for me. But when I finally like
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: go with the guilt, I became a better person.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: And since you're a homebody, what do you do at home?
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I got a golf course four minutes
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: from here that I play golf almost every day.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: I went home.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: I got two great dogs that are awesome. You know,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: I like to watch TV. I like to play video games.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: I like to jump in my pool. Yeah, I'm just
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I've built a home that there's a lot
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: of things I like to do, and so when I'm
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: not on the road, they don't want to do.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: Much in an.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, Darius, thanks so much for taking this time and
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: being so open and honest with my audience. I really
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: appreciate it.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: I think it was a great talking teacher, very great.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Talking Until next time. This is Bob left Sis