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Transcript

Biz Ops Lead: Stealthy Like an Elephant · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So let us get started.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Jen...
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a job ad for you.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you are going to like this one, uh, but not in the way that we
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: usually look at job ads and say, that was really good.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is just, it's different.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll find out what I mean as we go through it.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this week we're unpacking a job ad, so stealthy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even the job description is in witness protection.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Meet the founding BizOps lead at a VC-backed legal AI startup.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's an AI legal startup.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna build the operating system for a hybrid firm, tech company, law firm
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: or tech company, and the role just screams clarity.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: At least clarity in the sense that it blends finance, go-to-market, hiring, and
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: a whole bunch of other things underneath a vaguely lofty mission statement
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: to transform the
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: global practice of law.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: The real fun part of the entire affair, though... your first interview.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: will be with an AI system named Jack.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So is this opportunity a real career turbocharger or just another experiment in
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: unsupervised AI-driven hiring?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roast this post.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like it already.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler, spoiler.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen the job posting ahead of time, but I can tell you right now, nope.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not feeling this one.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I picked this one very specifically because I knew you would have some
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: feelings and we would have some things to talk about.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the the title for this role, and this is like verbatim, the title that was from
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: the job posting, is founding BizOps Lead at Stealth VC Backed Legal AI Startup.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be your job title if you get hired.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: How much fun is that?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just writing it down so I can properly digest.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Founding BizOps Lead.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: VC Backed Legal AI Startup.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the times where I'm going to advocate for an acronym because like,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: can you imagine saying that to somebody in casual conversation over like dinner or
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: pints?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you do?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm the founding biz ops lead at stealth VC backed legal AI startup.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I... this
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, the fact that they're putting "founding" in there is meaning
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: maybe they're looking for a co-founder then in this role.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then stealth VC backed legal AI startup, like that's not the name of the
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: company.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I hear this as them being like, we don't want to tell you the name of our
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: company.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's why it's so wordy, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: That there's there are a whole lot of things happening just in this first intro.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So very interesting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is very this is very much a company that is in stealth mode.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Which has always it's always driven me a little bit nuts when companies talk about
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: how they're in stealth mode and you know, people who are in these companies talk
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: about like,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: we're in stealth mode, we've got like some seed money and we're building something
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: and you know, we'll see you in a year when we come out of stealth mode.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, then shut up.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you talking about being in stealth mode?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, go do your stuff and come back in a year.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: My partner had a company approach him... kind of a stealth mode company, very NDA.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: and they were like, Can you come work for us and do some of the specific work that
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: he does...
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very specific type of engineering that he does.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: and they're like... we can't tell you much about the company, we also can't pay you.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not even kidding.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even kidding.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: it was it was real and very, very bizarre.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So this already kind of feels feels like that a little bit.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't do it, just FYI.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't do it, but it was like fascinating.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: because things like that are out there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that exist in like when they say I'm not paying you, it's like here are
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: some shares or options or like whatever.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: but bet on us and like you'll be rich, kid, like that kind of
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: This has those vibes, for sure.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But let's start off with the roasty profile.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this is just the profile of the organization and the job.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: the title of the job, founding biz ops lead at stealth backed VC or VC backed
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: legal AI startup.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's your job title.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: the report-to title is unknown.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know who this is reporting to.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Size of the company is two to ten employees.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is legal services.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do they do?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're lawyers and they build AI.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe they're AI lawyers.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're just not sure at this point what they do or what they are,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: because they're in stealth mode.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Head office location, it's unknown.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: job location posted as Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Geographical operating area is unknown.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the job type is not listed, but I think we can kind of assume that it is
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: full-time permanent because you wouldn't have a founding business operations leader
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: being
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: anything other than that, unless they really aren't paying and they say, you
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: know what, work when you work, which would be weird.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do have a question already about the roasty profile.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: legal services industry, that's interesting to me.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: that it's not like a software or a tech industry.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they are a because they're saying they're a like legal AI startup.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're not saying that they're like a legal firm trying to incorporate AI into
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: their practices.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that's a software industry, is it not?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll find out.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's very ambiguous.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's very ambiguous.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: That that's something that stuck out to me as well because they're not saying
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: that they're a software company.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you would expect that to kind of be the pathway, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: That a company trying to build AI services for for the legal industry would kind of
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: take... we'll build a software platform, you know, we'll do this and that, maybe
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: we'll do something agentic.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: But they're not saying that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're just saying they're a legal AI firm.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So are they trying to build AI lawyers?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: That would be interesting.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: That would be interesting because there have already been failed experiments and a
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: lot of missteps in a lot of jurisdictions where there's been this kind of weird
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: merging of
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: the law and AI, and judges aren't having it for a lot of the a lot of the cases.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I read something the other day about a lawyer.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: in California who had been sanctioned by the Bar Association because they wrote
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: briefs with AI and it just made stuff up that didn't exist and the judge didn't
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: dig it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And being in human resources too, like I do a lot of advisory work and I see
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes letters from terminated employees that are clearly
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: written by AI.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've got all the legalese and everything, but it's it's very much AI written.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I get it, people might not have the resources to be able to go and get legal support.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: but it's really risky.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be really, really careful when you're dealing with that that kind of
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: thing for... like, it's legal.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's there you just can't mess around with that kind of stuff.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So very interesting, very interesting to hear more about this
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: This founding biz ops lead.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have to read it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Role.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: it's quite the mouthful, that job title.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: so this is another one where I'm going to go through the entire job ad because this
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: job ad is very unconventional.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to be talking about things that we don't normally talk about,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to leave anything out.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like this ad is... it's weird.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there are in this job ad, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: There are eight sections in this job ad.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: About the job, job title, company description, job description, location,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: why this role is remarkable, what you will do, and the ideal candidate.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the sections in the job ad.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So starting off with about the job.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm reading verbatim again for the folks at home.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: so if I stumble over some stuff or something seems a little bit weird, it's
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: just what they wrote.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to to represent the best that I can what they've actually put down
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: on paper.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: About the job....
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is a job that Jill, our AI recruiter, is recruiting for on behalf of one of our
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: customers.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: She will pick the best candidates from Jack's network.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: The next step is to speak to Jack, and then there's a link that allows you to go
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: and speak to Jack.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for that section.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then we get into...
• 9:33
  wait.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Can you... can you remind us again...
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you mentioned Jack.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So who is Jack again?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Jack, to be honest, this is what this is all that we really know at this point.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Jack is an AI.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And Jill is an AI.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are two AIs, presumably working together to do recruiting for this job.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are you... are you punking me right now?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is this is this for real?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you find this job posting?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: This was on LinkedIn and yep, it's for real.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you that I am not punking you.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: This job, this is as it was posted on LinkedIn, and it's different.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all, times are wild right now.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we have to take care of ourselves because this kind of thing that's
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: happening right now is... it's horrifying.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of a nightmare.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also confused about... so Jill's the AI recruiter working on behalf of the
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: client.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well who's the client then?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like a third party... like I think...
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't understand.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you you would not be alone reading through this as a job candidate.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Your first your first reaction to reading this, the way that it's laid out and
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: structured and everything would be like, what the f$ck's going on?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is so... this is so bizarre.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like alternate universe bizarre.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's Jill... and Jill is the AI recruiter.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: there's Jack and Jack is another AI.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: and it is a third party recruitment firm.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Jack and Jill, which it could just be Jack and Jill, and like, their
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: human overlord who pays for their tokens.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a third party recruitment firm called Jack and Jill.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Jack is AI, Jill is AI, and then their client is this stealth mode legal AI
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: company that's looking for somebody.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's going down.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I hate it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Keep... keep going.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the "about the job" section.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's all that it puts in that section.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not about the job!
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sure isn't.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay... ... sure isn't.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: The next section is job title.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Founding BizOps lead at VC Stealth... ... VC-Backed Legal AI Startup.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's your job title.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a thing on salary, but we'll skip over that for now and come back to it
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: later because we do like to play the salary guessing game.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know you love it so much.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the next section, job title.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: The next section after that is company description.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what they have for company description.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Stealth legal AI startup backed by leading venture investors and founded by AI
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Frontier Lab experts.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's your company description.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at a loss for words, which is... which is not great.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: okay, okay.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: we can carry on to the next section.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we haven't even gotten enough out of this to have like a conversation
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: about it yet.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the job description is the next section.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the job description as written is you will build the operating system for a
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: unique hybrid entity that is both a law firm and a technology company.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Working directly with founders from elite law firms and AI labs, you will lead
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: high-stakes projects across finance, GTM... and "GTM" just means go-to-market
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: for folks who aren't familiar with that acronym... and hiring, to transform the
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: global practice of law.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's your job description.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, Paul!
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: This... for... like a legal type thing...
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: This feels very illegal.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so biz ops...
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying...
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to give a little bit here...
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So BizOps lead...
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: again, why is founding in there?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we find out after the fact.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing hiring, you're doing...
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't even know what this job is
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: doing...
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're hiring people, you're doing projects working with elite
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: other elite law firms.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And big important investors, and people who founded a Frontier AI lab, like, yeah,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: you're working with all the really cool important people.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: if you believe the the two sentences of actual meat that we've come across so far
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: in this job ad.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we were, if we were to, you know, putting aside kind of our mutual dislike,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think, of this so far... if we were to strip out all of the AI stuff and forget
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: that this is
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: like an AI legal startup for a second, and think, okay, this is a law firm.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this law firm is going to be a lawyer or a couple of lawyers forming a
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: partnership and they're looking for somebody to structure their practice and
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: figure out how to run the
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: administration, how to run the business, the billing, all that stuff.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what they're trying to communicate that they need.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: They need someone to build them a business because they don't have the skills or
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: interest in doing it themselves.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's where we're going with this.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the details are
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very scant right now.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're being very, very generous.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that if I were to to consider using an AI recruitment firm and this was
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: demonstration of their capabilities, I would not be going with the
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Jack and Jill AI firm.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just tell you that right now.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's weird, like I'm not a super
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: AI forward person.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I use AI, but I don't know how to do all of the things.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if I was working with a recruitment firm that was like an AI-based recruitment
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: firm, I would expect this to be like one of the sickest job ads I've ever seen and
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: be like, whoa, I'm blown away by these capabilities.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not like the opposite of that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not like my eight-year-old son came and typed like doo-doo-doo and then spit out
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: this job posting.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is...
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: ... so bizarre.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're being very generous with what you are imagining that this role is
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: implying, but yeah...
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So there's more, and perhaps you'll be more impressed with what comes next.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: The next section is "why this role is remarkable".
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And here we now have our first series of bullet points in the job ad.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got some bullet points to read between the lines on.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Join a small founding team of under 10 people in a category-defining company at.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: at the intersection of professional services and bleeding edge automation.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Unrivaled founder pedigree with leadership hailing from world-class AI research labs
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: and top-tier North American law firms.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, massive career acceleration, where two years of ownership across
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: strategy and execution will provide more growth than five years in a traditional
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: environment.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that line, that last line, we've seen this a few times now.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it in in job postings, I think we've talked about before, when they say
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: like you are gonna get more from this role than you would at like however many years
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: you spent at a
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: different organization, is basically saying we are going to bleed you dry.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna work you so hard.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they mean.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They don't mean because they're not saying mentorship or training or professional
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: development.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Basically saying, like, you are gonna work, we're gonna work your ass so hard
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: that it will feel like you just worked for 15 years.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's to me, that's what I read.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think when I read that bullet point.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like I said, we've seen it in different job postings.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: and and they're try they're trying to say, like, because it's a learning
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: environment, because there's so much happening, like this opportunity, you're gonna grow
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: so, and develop so quickly and gain all of these skill sets that would take you much
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: longer.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: elsewhere but how do you do that?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: How is that possible?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: There is something to be
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: said for having years of experience, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Having the space to fail,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: to fall flat on
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: your face, and learn from that.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Having the space to try something to iterate
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: and keep going to improve, but to try to condense that all in a certain period of
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: time doesn't allow for those things to happen.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's just... it's just not setting anyone up for success.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like it's a flex, but it's not.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So very interesting.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's... they've titled this section, Why This Role is Remarkable, right?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that section title really kind of says, you know, this is what's in it for you.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is why you're gonna love it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is why it's a phenomenal opportunity for you.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: but then they have three bullet points where the first one is like, join a small
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: founding team.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's fine.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some people love doing that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Some people love wearing all of the hats and doing all of the things and being
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Alongside a bunch of people who... same-same.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: then you've got like unrivaled founder pedigree.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying, oh, you know, the person who founded this company is just the most
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: amazing individual ever.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So perhaps by being in proximity to them, it'll rub off on you and you'll get so
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: much out of it and you'll grow as a person and, you know, be amazing.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And your next thing will be just amazing because of your proximity to this person
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: while you're working your ass off.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: and then, you know, lastly, like you said, we're gonna give you two years and it'll
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: feel like five, which yeah, that is coded language for saying you're going to work
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: and stuff's
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: gonna be thrown at you and you're gonna have to figure it all out.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there is there is a certain amount of value that comes from that, from... for
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: your own like professional and career development, like yeah, being forced to
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: figure stuff out.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's like creating a diamond, but it's exhausting.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And is it worth the trade-off?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Highly debatable.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, each person, each person has to decide for themselves whether that is
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: worth it for them.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: the only thing that's certain is that you're gonna work your ass off for however
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: long you're there.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you're making a good point, right?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you have to make that determination.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is it worth it for you to kind of like lose two years of your life but gain a
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: whole bunch of knowledge?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: How transferable is that though?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're like, I can do this for two years, two years and then I'm gonna peace
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: out and I'm gonna find something that's more my pace, but just like,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: get everything I can
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: from it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's totally cool if you wanna make that decision.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: but how does that translate outside of this organization?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are those skills transferable?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are they relevant?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gaining something that is actually going to drive your career forward?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you just, you know, are they just extracting things from you and then you
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: leave, depleted, and you don't really have much to show for it?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at company for like four years where it was kind of like that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was like go, go, go, lots of things being thrown at you.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: We were constantly pivoting.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: We were always like very visionary.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I left, I didn't have anything.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: to show for it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like to put on my resume to say I did this or I did that, and it
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: ended up like we transformed this and here was the return on investment.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't live in anything long enough to see the results of that work because we
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: were just constantly, constantly pivoting.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like you have to think about that too...
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what did that do for me and my resume, and being able to speak to the
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: work that I accomplished during that time?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like not a whole lot.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like not a whole lot from those four years.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like did I learn a lot?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it was it applicable when I was like in the job search.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not... not necessarily.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: There really wasn't much I could put on my resume to speak to.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: because like I said, everything we tried just kind of like fizzled out or died, and
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: then we're on to the next shiny object.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: you also think about like in those those kinds of environments where you are
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: continually being challenged, like you have to come up with solutions, because
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: nobody has the solutions
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: and the buck stops with you.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: the skills that you tend to really develop and get really good at, like problem
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: solving, like situational awareness, like critical thinking, those are really useful
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: things to have and being
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: strong, uh, even design thinking, even being like a strong design thinker,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: fantastic skills to have, but they don't actually translate well to what goes on
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: your resume, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way that the hiring process works, the way that the labour market
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: works, even though those things are intrinsically valued, there aren't systems
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: that are used to
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: measure them and objectively score you.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't go into
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: a job interview and say, well, hey, you know, I've got a 96% rating in critical
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: thinking from whatever lab, because those systems don't exist.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: They should.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: They should, because those skills are increasingly what people are going to have
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: to compete on in like the new labour market... but they don't exist, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So all that time is like to some degree, it's kind of a waste if you think about
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: just your resume.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move on to the next section.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this section is what you will do.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we got some more bullet points here.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Design and scale the internal operating systems for finance, HR, compliance, and
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: vendor management to unify law firm and tech operations.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Direct cross-functional strategic projects, including client onboarding
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: workflows, billing processes, financial modelling for new practice areas.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And lastly, support fundraising and investor relations by managing narrative
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: data rooms, financial reporting, and KPI dashboards in partnership with the CEO.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go back to the headcount, it said it said under ten people.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, in the category in LinkedIn it'll say two to ten employees.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: to me, this and based on what you just you just went over, I would say we're talking
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: about two employees, based on those job responsibilities.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the CEO and then this person, honestly.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: This could be the first hire.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are... we've seen this quite a bit.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you look at those responsibilities and you think, okay, they
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: they have no-one doing any kind of like operation.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like the CEO is doing everything.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're looking for someone to really like, you said, set up the business.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: and it does seem quite random.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: The the mix of tasks are all like necessary work that needs to get done for
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: a business to be successful.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it yeah, it very much feels as though, you don't already have someone
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: doing these things.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably the CEO off the side of their desk.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: We needed you to do... like data room, and all of that stuff, and fundraising.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those are very specific skill sets.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you need like financial modeling experience to be able to successfully
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: manage a lot of the data room information.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You also need HR experience.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you're looking for someone who has...
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of like skill sets that are... you don't just throw away, and everybody does,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: but you can't just throw away.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: HR experience.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not just something that you fit into a list of things that you were
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: capable of doing.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I feel very passionately about that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: But just to throw in, oh, and finance and HR and compliance, and fundraising and
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: data room management, like those are all very specific skill sets.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to find someone who can do all of that, sure, you can find someone.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: To do it well?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Unh-unh.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, because they're looking for someone to wear so many hats, it tells me
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: that this is likely a two-person organization.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And because if it's more than that, they wouldn't say like under 10 people.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're telling you right there, like they would say 10 people, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like under 10 people.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then they would say like a a team of a team of six or a team of nine.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a very, very small like non-existent
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: team, I guess is what I'm saying.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It almost makes me wonder if this is if this is like a moonshot inside
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: an existing organization.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe, maybe there is a company that's already established and they
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: mentioned that there's a Frontier AI lab that's kind of in the founder's,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know, orbit or whatever.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like so that kind of tells us that, like, all right, one of the founders, if there's
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: more than one, has a background in that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where this is coming from.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe inside that organization they're saying,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's build out or let's try to build niche businesses and resource
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: them, staff them, experiment, see what works.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then if it works, spin them off.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what they're trying to do.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there is in that established company at least a technical
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: staff that you would be drawing on.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you're meant to be kind of the prototyping, build-a-business person
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: inside this.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: and if it's kind of successful, if they can build a product that kind of works.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then the founder is going to go into fundraising mode and they go into spin-off
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: mode and they're like, Yep, let's build like a separate business from this.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what's going on.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't know.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't know, but man, we like to spin stories in our head, that's for sure.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of assumptions.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: The next section is the ideal candidate.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I found this one particularly interesting given what we've seen in
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: previous sections.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the ideal candidate, four to seven years of experience in top-tier consulting
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: or business operations within a high-growth startup environment,
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: high-impact execution
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: mindset with the ability to switch seamlessly.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Between complex financial modeling and negotiating vendor contracts,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: systems-oriented thinker who operates at level four to five effectiveness,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: prioritizing ruthlessly in early
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: stage ambiguity while biasing toward action.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's the ideal candidate.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just talk about level four to five effectiveness?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like on sorry, on what scale?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I dunno, like on the richter scale?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they'll be so impactful that the ground will start shaking and buildings
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: will start vibrating and that's how you'll know that success has come.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like... there's no other information?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: about like... what are they, talking about a framework or anything?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're just saying level four to five effectiveness?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be level four to five out of like fifty levels.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like wow, okay.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe maybe Jack wrote this job ad while Jill went looking for people.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of them was going up the hill, one was falling down the hill.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's really interesting.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: what are... what are your thoughts on that, the ideal candidate?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing that stuck out for me was... like earlier on in the job post, they say,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know, massive career acceleration.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna turbocharge your career.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, two years of working in this environment is going to provide you the
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: professional growth that you would get in five years in a traditional environment.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: they're saying that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that language codes toward a certain person, right?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like early career, ambitious, hungry, wants to learn.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, wants to really get into something that's high impact eventually,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: but really like wants to set their career off on on solid footing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what that part really codes for me.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then they're saying the ideal candidate has four to seven years of
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: experience in top-tier consulting.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think of that like the big four, right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've gone to work for Deloitte or PWC or any of those guys.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: but to work in those organizations and
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Truly top-tier consulting organizations, you don't start that out of school.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, typically you have five to ten years experience before you get your shot
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: joining those really high-paying management consulting organizations.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we think those but we put those two things together and it's like, alright,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: so they're looking for someone who has at least 10, maybe 15 years experience in the
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: workforce.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're established in their career.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: But they want someone who is young and hungry, probably not going to work for a
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: lot of money, and is going to put value in that whole idea of like, we'll
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: turbocharge your
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: career and you'll be working near top-tier investors and you'll be working near the
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: founder of a frontier AI lab, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Those things are mismatched.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been working at a top-tier consulting firm, why would you do this?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you take this leap?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unless money is no object and you're just like looking for an interesting challenge
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: and something disruptive and
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can work for free and it's fine.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I go back to the title where it says founding BizOps,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: whatever the title is.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there something that indicates within this job posting at some point that
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: you would be considered... like you would be brought in at the founder level, have
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: founder rights and all of those things.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what's interesting to me as well.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I also... the ideal candidate, like, sure consulting, or they've worked in high
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: growth startups.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing about experience in a...
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: in a startup that has been venture backed, that has successfully
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: fundraised a certain amount of money.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's quite vague about those things.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you look at what you're gonna be doing or
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, what the responsibilities are.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird when you see that they don't often line up with like qualifications or
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: in this case, the ideal candidate.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so you're looking at someone who can do... who's going to be doing all of
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: these things, but you're not asking that they have done these things.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's... really like there's a there's a misalignment there.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just this job posting.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I find that that happens quite often.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they ask for you to have all sorts of different types of
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: you're gonna be doing all these different types of things, but not once or
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: they asking for you to have actually had the experience doing those things?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's so... it's so bizarre.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what's even more fun about the comments that you just made is that...
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: that is really the end of the job post.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: That wraps up what they have put out there for finding someone.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they they haven't really talked about qualifications.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't really talked about skills.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: they've put in very, very vague statements about responsibility and ownership,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: what you'll own, what you'll be doing.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I get what they need and what they want.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it is not at all descriptive.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it also doesn't talk about options or shares or ownership or anything like that.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I would expect for there to be something like that in an offer like this,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: because the salary's probably not gonna be great.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: It just goes back to like that section that they decided to title it, "What's
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Remarkable About This Role"
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, i there is nothing remarkable about this job at all except that it's so
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: poorly written.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: By a company that is, you know, an AI recruitment firm.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's remarkable to me.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have a heading like that.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's an opportunity to actually, like... what else?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are the benefits?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are what are the benefits?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: What are the perks?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: What is the mission of this organization?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is the culture like?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are the values?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing about we we say this so often, but you are trying to convince
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: someone that this is the place that they want to work, but there's nothing.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: In here convincing me that I would like to work at this club.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know anything about the organization.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's really poorly done.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Which makes me think that it was written by this AI recruiting system.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there just wasn't a lot to go with.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it came up with some BS and now we have a job ad.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are going to have an AI-run recruitment firm, wouldn't you wanna use
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: that as an opportunity to start doing things better, not worse?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that what we're supposed to be trying to do?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is in theory the point of AI.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: do things better, you know, more productivity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think that that necessarily translates into reality.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now there is one more part to this job ad that I really want us to go into, and
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's not actually about the job itself.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this is about the third-party recruitment platform or whatever.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: so it says, who are Jack and Jill?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll go first.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jack.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: An AI that gets to know you on a quick call, learning what you're great at and
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: what you want from your career.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then I help you land your dream job by finding unmissable opportunities as they
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: come up, supporting you with applications, interview prep, and moral support.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jill, an AI recruiter who talks to companies to understand
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: who they're looking to hire.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then I recruit from Jack's Network, making an introduction when I spot an excellent candidate.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Next steps.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Step one.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Visit the job listing, which is just the exact same thing that we've read through.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Step two, click talk to Jack or go to this link.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Step three, talk to Jack so he can understand your experience and ambitions.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Step four, Jack will make sure that Jill, the AI agent working for the company,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: considers you for this role.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Step five, if Jill thinks you're a great fit and her client wants to meet you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: They will make the introduction.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Step six: if not, Jack will find you excellent alternatives, all for free.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: We never post fake jobs.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't a trick.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is an open role that Jill is currently recruiting for
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: from Jack's network.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes Jill's clients ask her to anonymize their jobs when she advertises
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: them, which means she can't share all of the details in the job description.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate that this can make them look a little bit suspect.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: But there isn't much we can do about it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Give Jack a spin.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: You could land this role.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: If not, most people find him incredibly helpful with their job search, and we're
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: giving away his services for free.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go back to what was the line, it's not our fault?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think I blacked out halfway through.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: What was that one line?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: we appreciate this can make them look a bit suspect, but there isn't much we can
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: do about it.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they're talking about sometimes our client says anonymize this job posting,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: which is the case here, because we're looking for somebody who is at a VC-backed
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: stealth legal tech
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: AI startup.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: imagine hiring a company to do work for you that is apologizing for how
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: sh*tty their work is?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine if it was people, yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you can you imagine?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: if this was analog, and this was a recruiting, firm and the recruiter said in
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: their marketing materials, sometimes my client companies ask me to anonymize or
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: redact certain information...
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: and I get that this makes the job ad that I put out in the conversation I have with
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: you seem super sus, but sorry, there's nothing I can do.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: just because it's anonymized, it doesn't mean it has to be a terrible
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: product outcome.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that... like, I understand they're doing a play here on Jack and
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Jill, but like...this is where I go back to aren't we supposed to be using AI to
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: make things better?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Could you choose whiter names for these people?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Could you not try to make it a little bit more diverse, a little bit more
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: interesting?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is so wildly disappointing, and I can't even believe anyone would have
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: paid money for these services.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can't even believe that.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the shoddiest, most embarrassing work that I've ever seen.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is, like, horrifying.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nightmare.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like it's a really bad, like.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: beginning to a movie.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there could be a great horror movie based on everything we just
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: reviewed somewhere.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have an alternative theory.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps this recruiting thing is another one of their products that they're trying
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: to turn into a company.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps perhaps this is marketing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: it would be like the worst marketing in the known universe because it's so shoddy,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: but... perhaps this is marketing.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny that you say that because I also thought that.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what if this whole AI thing is actually this company itself playing
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: around with this function?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I did think that, but then I like, but then I was like, but how it's so bad.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess that's better than the alternative of them actually like using
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: someone's services to create this disaster.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is... it's not great.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not great.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that is... that is it, like in its entirety.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is all that we have to work with, with this.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna go into intermission.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to send Jen the link to the job ad so that she can take a skim through it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And while you do that, I'll check in on the folks in the live studio audience and
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: we'll do Q&A and have a bit of a boo.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you... are we guessing the salary before?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't wanna if it's on the posting, I don't wanna see it first as a spoiler.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the the salary was not provided.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: oh okay.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the salary was not provided.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they did say in the job ad, "salary range" and then "not provided."
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like they're honest about it, at least.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I won't beat them up too much about that, because under ten employees...
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: they're not legally required to list salary in Ontario.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: but like we've talked about before, list it.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just list it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why wait until your hand is forced?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just do it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just do it.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be skipped over, your job ads, because this is a requirement
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: in so many jurisdictions.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: companies have started doing it, even when they don't have to.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a job seeker, if you're looking for a job and you're going
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: through, you know, fifty job ads a day, a hundred job ads a day, and you have some
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: that fit your skills, your
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: background, your experience, and it lists a salary that works for you, and then you
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: have some that don't, are you gonna pay any attention to the ones that don't?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: It saves you a step too as like... the hiring company.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen jobs where I'm like, this looks like a really cool HR job.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like I would be really interested in it only to get to the bottom
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: where it says salary.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, no, I've... no thank you...
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not at this point in my career.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it saves me time, it saves them time instead of coming into that
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: conversation thinking everything's a good fit and only to be only to learn
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: that you're completely
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: misaligned on the salary.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like... just list it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, okay, well I'm ready to read the full job posting and prepare
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: for my rating.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: The link is in your email.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: We will you can shut off your camera and then whenever you're ready to carry on,
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: just come on back.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, Jen.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there wasn't much for me to review.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Usually we just pull out highlights to share and then when we take an
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: intermission, we read the full job posting.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: But you like you said, you covered it all.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there wasn't too much to review there.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: The stuff about the AI recruitment platform was actually longer than the job
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: ad itself, right?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: never a good sign.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like imagine, imagine if a human recruiting agency did that in their job
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: ads, right?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like the stuff about them instead of what their client needs was longer than what
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: their client actually needs.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: That wouldn't go so well.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: That would end up in a "you're fired" phone call.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think anytime like we it's it's a good lens to put on things of like if this
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: weren't AI, we know it's AI, if it weren't AI and it were a human, how would
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: we be feeling?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: How would we be reacting?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Would this be acceptable quality of work, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just need to remember that.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And all this technology driven stuff that is taking over the world, it's very, very
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: easy to lose sight that this is supposed to serve people, humans, right?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to pay attention to that human-centric experience throughout.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or what's the point?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are we actually doing here?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's go into final thoughts.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when we look at job ads like this, we score them based on
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: two sets of dimensions.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the first kind of bucket of scoring.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is the job ad itself...
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how was it written?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did it make sense?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Was it clear?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Were there spelling errors?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: All of that stuff.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did it clearly communicate what the company actually needs when hiring?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: The second bucket is the role design.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So is this role as designed sustainable?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that a person can do for the long term?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things in place structurally that we believe will help the person who
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: gets this job be successful?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: If not, why not?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's missing?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we score those out of 10, two different buckets.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about the job post itself?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: What would you score that out of 10?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, the job post I gave a one out of ten.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: because it's just it's so poorly done.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really one of the worst, I think, that we've come across.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: maybe the work sounds interesting, you know, the idea of working on a small team,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: working at this kind of like cutting edge technology, trying something new, seems
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: maybe exciting...
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is this...
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bear with me here.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is this possibly a good job hidden by a bad job ad?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: If I knew the salary, I would feel more confident answering that question.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: but for the job ad itself, garbage.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not okay, one out of ten.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even sure that they took the time to heat up the garbage.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: the job design itself... lots of issues there.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: A bit more generous, like three, four out of ten, maybe, simply because... like, for
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: the lower scores, burnout risk, you mentioned it, but the experience
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: that they're asking for doesn't necessarily align with the scope of the
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: role.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they're looking at someone who maybe has like VP, or at the very least,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: director-level experience.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they need, but that's not what they're necessarily asking for,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: which translates to me... they don't want to pay for that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't want to pay for that experience.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And plus, if you are more senior in experience for a role like this, it's too
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: high of a risk.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's way too high of risk to leave, say, your big four consulting job to go and
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: do this.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: for what?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like what would be the benefit, right?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is like a high scope job.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want ex like to gain experience in all of these different buckets, and you
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: are confident that you can build something, and you think that you
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: will get experience
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: from working closely with the CEO or all these other elite, whatever, world class
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: people, then sure.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, I think it's a pretty low, low rating for how the
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: job itself is designed.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was no more generous than you were with this.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: For the the job ad itself, zero point five... one out of ten.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was... it was pretty atrocious.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was missing so much stuff.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing that I did like that they did was the structure of the job ad.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: The structure itself, just the headings, should have told a story.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it should have told a very compelling story.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: About why the candidate wants, or should work there... should join this stealth
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: mode startup.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the execution just wasn't there.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: they didn't put anything remotely relevant in those sections.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all just kind of like floating and it didn't make a whole lot of sense.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't connected.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, it was weird.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, 0.5 out of 10 for that.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Super fail.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: sustainability, the role design.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'd give it a two out of ten, and that's being incredibly generous.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the only reason that I can, in good conscience, rate it a two out of ten
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: is that everything that they wrote kind of sums up to you will do everything on the
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: business side.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: You will build the business, administer the business, and make sure that the
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: business things are happening while the lawyers go lawyering and while the
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: technology people build
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: the platform.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: they didn't actually say that, but they kinda
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: said it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that was laid out, but no responsibilities, no qualifications, none
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: of the stuff that we typically look for.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just absolutely devoid of that.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that context, in kind of being fair to them, maybe that context is meant
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: to come out through the process of you clicking on the link and talking to the AI
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: system, the chatbot.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a more rich interactive experience there that gives you
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: information.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't in the job ad, right?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: You have to give people a reason to click on the link to talk to the AI chatbot.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they did not do that whatsoever.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was no reason to do that.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And on the the issue of, okay, we don't know what the salary is and the mismatch
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: in kind of what they seem to be looking for in experience.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would almost argue that they shouldn't be looking for an employee.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: They shouldn't be looking to hire an employee in this role.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: They should be going on a founder hunt.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: They should be looking to add another co-founder to the stack, someone who has
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: business operations experience, who has structured a business, who is maybe like a
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: former
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: chief operating officer, or a chief operating officer currently, but is
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: looking to kind of found a company... go looking for that person.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because then, you know, they're gonna get shares, of course.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: but you know that they're going to be committed because of that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know that they're going to have the experience.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And your roll of the dice is going to be a lot less risky.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, like even hiring an employee for this is... it's kinda weird.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was the wrong approach, I think, wrong strategy.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I thought because they had founding in the title, I thought maybe
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: there would be something in the job ad that mentions it, speaks to it.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: But no, there's absolutely nothing there.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: The job ad title, the way that the role was titled, I really think that it was
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: just meant to like optimize the job ads placement on LinkedIn or
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: wherever else it was going to be posted.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because even the job ad's kind of disconnected.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of just completely irrelevant stuff like founding.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Irrelevant.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe you do if you're looking to be a co-founder, but like you said.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing about that in there.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should click on that link, the AI recruiter link thing at some point and
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: then report back on kind of the rabbit hole that we go down.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: It goes to a 404.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: That shit's broken.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't actually work.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: So then... but so this can't be real?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: or else the the job ad's been taken down already.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes sometimes we are covering like they're real, they're always real job ads,
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: but sometimes they're a little bit older.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be that as well.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's filled.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: It could it could also be that enough people who saw this job posting on
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn clicked the the "flag as spam" thing because the job ad was so horrible
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: that LinkedIn's
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: algorithm just like screened it out.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's another risk that we don't really talk about a lot on the show,
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: but... because... how are job ads this bad?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: but if your job ads are so poorly written and they're so suspect and they look so
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: suspicious, they can be delisted.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: From the platforms that you're posting them on, just because job seekers think
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: that they're a scam.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tons of scams out there.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's not an incentive to do the bare minimum to make yourself look like an
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: actual company hiring an actual job, think about that.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was one for the one for the books.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can safely consider this job roasted.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks everybody for joining us in the live studio.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: We will see you next week, every Friday, same bat time, same bat channel.