Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Rodeo Star Shot Dead; Did Alleged Female Shooter Target Star?

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Rodeo Star Shot Dead; Did Alleged Female Shooter Target Star? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a rodeo star, a father,
0:18
Speaker 1: a friend, dead owner. He wasn't bounced off a bronken buck.
0:26
Speaker 1: That is not what happened to Olensey. I mean, see Grace,
0:31
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:34
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. Take
0:37
Speaker 1: a listen to this. Alcy Mitchell all the way from
0:41
Speaker 1: freds No, Texas now Alsie is a guy that has
0:45
Speaker 1: bowed through injuries this year. Broke his femur in willing West,
0:49
Speaker 1: Virginia in about the middle of March. That a kid
0:52
Speaker 1: can really read, you can really jump up and be flashy.
0:56
Speaker 1: I believe we're gonna start this saying up great, he's
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Speaker 1: got Kruper bucking bulls, tropic thunder and what a way
1:02
Speaker 1: to start things off on a Friday night for a
1:04
Speaker 1: man who comes in number fifteen in the Velocity Tour
1:08
Speaker 1: standings when here in Syracuse would get him in the
1:11
Speaker 1: top forty in the PBR World standings. You're gonna lack
1:14
Speaker 1: the numbers coming in eighty six points for Ouncey Mitchell.
1:20
Speaker 1: Man hearing that announcer that's the PBR announcers at round
1:24
Speaker 1: one of the Syracuse Velocity tour makes me feel like
1:27
Speaker 1: I'm right there watching Ouncey ride the rodeo. What a star?
1:34
Speaker 1: What more do we know about him? Taking us star friends?
1:37
Speaker 1: At Fox thirteen, he was best known in the bullwriting
1:40
Speaker 1: community and among his loved ones as Ouncey Mitchell. Mitchell
1:45
Speaker 1: told his best friend and cousin Ezekiel, this was going
1:48
Speaker 1: to be his year. His career in professional bullwriting was skyrocketing.
1:52
Speaker 1: Went from relatively unknown on the standings until within a
1:56
Speaker 1: matter of months he was twenty third in the world.
2:00
Speaker 1: The Professional bull Riders Organization released a statement saying, quote
2:04
Speaker 1: how else he got his name because he was born small.
2:07
Speaker 1: He grew up to compete with a huge heart. Born small.
2:13
Speaker 1: You know dynamite comes in tiny packages, doesn't it? And
2:17
Speaker 1: this guy shot to the sky like a shooting star. Okay,
2:22
Speaker 1: we know he was twenty third in the world as
2:26
Speaker 1: a rodeo star, but what more do we know about
2:29
Speaker 1: rodeo star outside take a listen to Emily Tenser. He
2:34
Speaker 1: was a quiet cowboy, but his actions were loud, and
2:37
Speaker 1: so was the impact he left in the arena and
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Speaker 1: on his family and every time I put my hand
2:43
Speaker 1: in a bull rope. Now being him right there in
2:46
Speaker 1: the back of my mind. He was a once in
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Speaker 1: a lifetime person and a family member and frand and
2:52
Speaker 1: more so a brother. Just days ago he called his
2:57
Speaker 1: daughter and told her that he would be home in
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Speaker 1: two weeks with a new puppy. She already picked out
3:02
Speaker 1: a name for it. So not just a rodeo star
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Speaker 1: twenty three in the world, but a friend and a father,
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Speaker 1: a father who thinks to bring home a little puppy
3:16
Speaker 1: to his baby girl just to make her smile. So
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Speaker 1: how does a rodeo star end up dead? Not getting
3:24
Speaker 1: thrown off a bucking bronco, but dead in a pool
3:30
Speaker 1: of blood? How does that happen? Take a listen now
3:33
Speaker 1: to our friends at Fox thirteen and KUTV two. The
3:37
Speaker 1: professional bull rider from Texas is dead after being shot
3:41
Speaker 1: in a domestic violence incident in Salt Lake last night.
3:44
Speaker 1: Police say the man rode in last night's rodeo at
3:48
Speaker 1: the Utah State Fair. The shooting happened early this morning
3:51
Speaker 1: in the ballpark area near nine hundred South and two
3:55
Speaker 1: hundred West. The professional bull Riders confirming just this afternoon
3:59
Speaker 1: the Demetrius Allen was one of their cowboys. He was
4:02
Speaker 1: perhaps best known to fans, though by his nickname Alency Mitchell,
4:06
Speaker 1: the twenty seven year old from Texas competed in rodeos
4:09
Speaker 1: all across the country. In fact, he took part in
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Speaker 1: the Days of forty seven rodeo here in Salt Lake
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Speaker 1: City back in twenty eighteen, and he'd already competed in
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Speaker 1: several rodeo events this year. This guy has affected the
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Speaker 1: entire community, in fact, the rodeo community, not just there
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Speaker 1: where he's from or where he died, but across the country.
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Speaker 1: So as the shock and grief rocks the community. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I don't know how many of you have ever been
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Speaker 1: to a rodeo, but I gotta tell you there's nothing
4:43
Speaker 1: like the rodeo. There's a country song dedicated to they
4:49
Speaker 1: call the thing the rodeo. Let's see the blood and
4:53
Speaker 1: the guts, the tears and the something, the gold and
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Speaker 1: the buckle. You get a big gold ule when you
5:00
Speaker 1: win a rodeo match. There's just nothing like it. And
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Speaker 1: the stars of the rodeo are like rock stars like
5:10
Speaker 1: Jagger or the Beatles, or Taylor Swift or Lady Gaga
5:15
Speaker 1: or Britney Spears. Their stars and their sphere take a
5:19
Speaker 1: listen now to our Friensy KHOU eleven fans and the
5:24
Speaker 1: Professional Bull Writers Association family heartbroken over the news, tributes
5:28
Speaker 1: are now pouring in, including from the CEO of PBR,
5:31
Speaker 1: who posted on social media that the nickname Outcy was
5:34
Speaker 1: given to him because he was born small, but that
5:36
Speaker 1: he grew up to compete with a huge heart. Mitchell
5:39
Speaker 1: was born in Fresno. According to the Wrangler Network, he
5:42
Speaker 1: got his first steer at five years old. He also
5:45
Speaker 1: had a firefighting degree from Houston Community College. Got his
5:49
Speaker 1: first steer at five years old. You know, I remember
5:55
Speaker 1: the first time I took the twins to a bull ranch,
5:59
Speaker 1: and they and myself will never forget it. Once you
6:05
Speaker 1: have that affinity, it seemingly never goes away again. You
6:10
Speaker 1: were just listening to our friends at KHOU, and now
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Speaker 1: the question becomes, what happened to Ouncy? Why did he
6:20
Speaker 1: die in a pool of blood? Take a listen to
6:24
Speaker 1: our friends at crime online dot com. Several rounds were
6:29
Speaker 1: fired through the glass door and window of the apartment
6:31
Speaker 1: where Alan was staying. At least one round struck Alan
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Speaker 1: in the torso. The investigation reveals the bullet impacts appeared
6:39
Speaker 1: to be coming from inside to outside. Police also say
6:43
Speaker 1: there's no indication of forced entry or even an attempt.
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Speaker 1: There was blood evidence outside the apartment, but no observable
6:50
Speaker 1: blood inside. No observable blood inside, blood outside the apartment.
6:56
Speaker 1: What exactly happened? We've got an star panel to make
7:01
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. In the shooting
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Speaker 1: death of Aunci Mitchell aka Demetrius Omar Allen with a
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Speaker 1: little five year old girl KSL dot com. Actually, thank
7:15
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us now. I understand
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Speaker 1: that he was in Utah just to compete. Is that correct?
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Speaker 1: He is not from Utah trick and this was the
7:25
Speaker 1: Utah State Fair? Is that correct? Describe the Utah State
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Speaker 1: Fair for me? What is that? Is it just a
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Speaker 1: rodeo or is are there rides in a ferris wheel
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Speaker 1: and often airs and funnel cakes? What can you tell
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Speaker 1: me about the fair? Yes? And the Utah Steat Fair
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Speaker 1: is the biggest fair in the steep in at last
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Speaker 1: about a week or two and it has all the
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Speaker 1: fair the traditional fair activitis um like live dot competition,
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Speaker 1: rodeo rights, carnival games, just everything that you would expected
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Speaker 1: to scare and it's a activity for people across the
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Speaker 1: seat of the year. I understands Outsy Allen had traveled
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Speaker 1: all the way from Houston to compete at the rodeo
8:11
Speaker 1: in the Utah State Fair when he got there, now
8:15
Speaker 1: he was at the fair. Uh with an on off girlfriend?
8:20
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes, so they were at the fair together.
8:25
Speaker 1: Limited question, Ashley MLA. Do we know where he went
8:29
Speaker 1: after he competed? Where did he go? We know all
8:33
Speaker 1: Place has said so far as they went to a
8:36
Speaker 1: bar after going to the seire together, and we don't
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Speaker 1: know which fire that I would assume this they where
8:43
Speaker 1: if they were in the Ballpark neighborhood, that that would
8:45
Speaker 1: be somewhere downtown, which is where where there are many
8:50
Speaker 1: bars that are popular in the area. You know. Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now. In addition to investigative reporter Ashley MLA
8:57
Speaker 1: with ksl is Brad Micklin, high profile lawyer with the
9:03
Speaker 1: Micklin Law Group his specialty men's divorce, men's custody, and
9:09
Speaker 1: family law. M Let me let that sink in. I
9:14
Speaker 1: guess you always think the man's the victim. Well, in
9:18
Speaker 1: this case, you wouldn't be half wrong. The way you
9:21
Speaker 1: can find Michelin is at Michelin Lawgroup dot Com. Brad Micklin,
9:25
Speaker 1: How many times do I have to say it? Nothing
9:29
Speaker 1: good happens after midnight? Number one? And how many cases
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Speaker 1: start at a bar? Brad Micklin, Now, don't just take
9:39
Speaker 1: off your defense out for just a minute. Let's just
9:41
Speaker 1: get real. How many murders, aggravators, salts, rapes, sidemy, you
9:48
Speaker 1: name it, shooting, stabbings, cutting with a broken beer bottle,
9:52
Speaker 1: knocked down, drag out, agasalt weapon, fist start at a bar?
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Speaker 1: Brad Micklin. I'm sure nance countless of them do. But
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Speaker 1: this didn't end at the bar. This ended at a home.
10:05
Speaker 1: Did I ask you about a home? Listen? I've got
10:09
Speaker 1: one hour to analyze what I know, think about it,
10:12
Speaker 1: and I know you wouldn't do this, and I wouldn't
10:14
Speaker 1: want to do this. But what if you got hand
10:17
Speaker 1: in a case file one hour before you were to
10:20
Speaker 1: strike a jury one hour? I don't know why, maybe
10:23
Speaker 1: your trial partner fell out. I don't know, but I
10:27
Speaker 1: am asking you. Just pretend you're on cross exam. Okay,
10:32
Speaker 1: Brad Macklin, how does it feel to be in the
10:34
Speaker 1: hot seat? You've had so many people on a cross exam,
10:36
Speaker 1: You're no stranger to a courtroom. How many times generally
10:42
Speaker 1: have you seen all sorts of cases start at a bar? Thousands, thousands,
10:47
Speaker 1: not tens of thousands. I mean, you pour alcohol into
10:51
Speaker 1: a situation and everything ignites. You know what, who may
10:55
Speaker 1: know an answer better than you and I do to
10:57
Speaker 1: that is doctor Tim Gallagher, or medical examiner for the
11:01
Speaker 1: entire state of Florida. Man, you're a busy pathcaremed dot
11:07
Speaker 1: com lecturer, University Florida Medical School founder and host. Listen
11:13
Speaker 1: to this international Forensic Medicine death Investigation conference. Wouldn't you
11:19
Speaker 1: guys like to go to that a death investigation conference? Okay,
11:26
Speaker 1: let me put my dreams aside for a moment, doctor
11:28
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, Doctor Gallagher, how many bar fights turn into murder? Oh?
11:33
Speaker 1: My goodness, so many? I mean, like the officer said,
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Speaker 1: the lawyer said, thousands, thousands of them. I mean it
11:42
Speaker 1: takes up a very large portion of our day, you know,
11:45
Speaker 1: sorting through all the alcoholics and all the alcoholic related incidences, assaults, fights,
11:51
Speaker 1: et cetera like that. And it's also a large part
11:54
Speaker 1: of my testimony when I do go to court time
12:08
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, doctor Gallagher, let me just
12:17
Speaker 1: veer off the garden path for one moment and take
12:21
Speaker 1: you down the rabbit hole. Could you just give me
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Speaker 1: a thumbnail of the types of murders you've seen that
12:30
Speaker 1: result from bar fights? And when you see this in
12:32
Speaker 1: the movies, I know you may think it's cliche that
12:36
Speaker 1: all of a sudden a fight breaks out. That is
12:39
Speaker 1: not just in the movies. That's real. So what kind
12:43
Speaker 1: of deaths, what different kind of deaths have you seen
12:46
Speaker 1: as a result of bar fights? Gallagher? Well, let me, yeah,
12:49
Speaker 1: let me give you a ridiculous one, just to let
12:52
Speaker 1: you know how. Okay, wait, let me get all suddle
12:54
Speaker 1: and have a sip of my tea. Go ahead, go okay.
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Speaker 1: So I was a couple of years ago we had
13:01
Speaker 1: a bar related fight where one brother shot the other
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Speaker 1: brother because one of them insisted the dog like them better.
13:09
Speaker 1: Oh I'm so happy, little do you know? The four
13:12
Speaker 1: of us fight about which one fat boy likes the
13:14
Speaker 1: most all the time, But not in the bar. So
13:16
Speaker 1: nobody's drunk. But you don't deal with twelve gay shotgun? No, no,
13:21
Speaker 1: we do not. The only time we touch a gun
13:24
Speaker 1: is when we're doing practice shooting with the scouts. The scouts. Okay, right,
13:29
Speaker 1: that's some of the ridiculousness that we have to deal
13:32
Speaker 1: with here on a very regular basis. Have you ever
13:34
Speaker 1: seen anybody cut with a beer bottle? A broken beer bottle? Oh,
13:38
Speaker 1: we've had that. We've had someone get thrown to a
13:42
Speaker 1: plate glass window and then somebody else pick up a
13:44
Speaker 1: shard of that plate glass and then stabbed them with that. Well,
13:48
Speaker 1: you just have all the fun, don't you join you?
13:53
Speaker 1: I think in the courtroom was exciting. Did you hear
13:55
Speaker 1: that Mikelin through a plate glass window, picks up a
13:59
Speaker 1: shard of glass and then stabs the guy. Dad, I
14:01
Speaker 1: guess it was a guy. Okay, let me get out
14:03
Speaker 1: of the rabbit hole and back to Ouncy Mitchell, just
14:06
Speaker 1: twenty seven years old with a four year old daughter. Guys,
14:12
Speaker 1: take a listen now to our cut three. This is
14:15
Speaker 1: Emily Tents at Box thirteen. Lashawn Bagley, a twenty one
14:19
Speaker 1: year old woman here in Salt Lake City. She was
14:21
Speaker 1: arrested earlier today. The victim's real name is Demetrius Allen,
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Speaker 1: but he was best known in the bull riding community
14:29
Speaker 1: and among his loved ones as Ouncey Mitchell. He leaves
14:33
Speaker 1: behind a four year old daughter. Sunday night, Ouncy Mitchell
14:37
Speaker 1: was in Salt Lake City doing what he loved one
14:40
Speaker 1: last time. Hours later, he'd lose his life after police
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Speaker 1: saying on again, off again girlfriend shot him through a
14:47
Speaker 1: glass store. Okay, right there, joining me, Doctor Mindy B. Mechanic,
14:53
Speaker 1: professor's psychology emeredis cal State University, Fullerton, and she focuses
14:59
Speaker 1: on trauma. I'm a victimization, intimate partner violence, sex assault,
15:03
Speaker 1: and stalking. Wow, do we need a shrink? Doctor mchannic.
15:09
Speaker 1: You know what just grabbed me When I was listening
15:11
Speaker 1: to our friends. I believe that was at Fox thirteen.
15:15
Speaker 1: On again, off again? How many times have I told
15:20
Speaker 1: men and women there is a reason you broke up
15:24
Speaker 1: the first time. Don't go back for seconds. Okay, don't now.
15:29
Speaker 1: Once in a while, you see like a second and
15:32
Speaker 1: you remarry somebody. You see it work out, like Marie
15:35
Speaker 1: Osmond Jack Mary Osmen went back and married her high
15:39
Speaker 1: school sweetheart. They're still together. It does happen. But when
15:43
Speaker 1: I hear on again, off again in connection to our
15:47
Speaker 1: murder case, what do you make of the on and
15:52
Speaker 1: off relationship status? Doctor Mechanic, Well, it's hard to know
15:57
Speaker 1: without knowing more facts about their relationship. One possibility is
16:02
Speaker 1: that the relationship was very tumultuous, that there was some
16:07
Speaker 1: kind of abuse, violence, fighting, that sort of thing. But
16:11
Speaker 1: there could also be more benign explanations given the fact
16:15
Speaker 1: that he lived in Texas and evidently she lived in
16:19
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City, and so it's possible that something as
16:22
Speaker 1: simple as the distance. So I being trained as a
16:26
Speaker 1: social scientist, I tried to think more in terms of
16:29
Speaker 1: hypothesis testing and what are all the possibilities, and not
16:32
Speaker 1: to go in a direction of making assumptions. But certainly
16:36
Speaker 1: tumultuousness was the first thing that came to mind, given
16:39
Speaker 1: that we're talking about a domestic commic side. You're right,
16:42
Speaker 1: and a long distance relationship had so much stress on it.
16:46
Speaker 1: Plus there's a baby involved in this whole scenario. It's
16:49
Speaker 1: got a four year old child. Were you about to
16:51
Speaker 1: say something else on the mechanic, Yeah, I was going
16:53
Speaker 1: to say. I work in a lot of domestic comic
16:55
Speaker 1: side cases, and when women commit domestic comic side more
17:00
Speaker 1: often than not, it's in the context of them having
17:03
Speaker 1: experienced abuse in that relationship themselves. Now, I'm not saying
17:07
Speaker 1: that happened in this case, and so if it didn't,
17:10
Speaker 1: it would be a little bit more a novelist. But
17:13
Speaker 1: one thing that does trigger domest of homicide against women
17:17
Speaker 1: is separation or separation violence. And so to the extent
17:21
Speaker 1: that what I heard here in this case was it
17:24
Speaker 1: sounded like perhaps another breakup because he was heading over
17:27
Speaker 1: to her apartment to collect some of his belongings. So
17:31
Speaker 1: it's possible bullet signaled goodbye, this is over and I'm
17:35
Speaker 1: you know, and perhaps her thought was, well, if I
17:38
Speaker 1: can't have you, nobody will forget it. I won't accept that.
17:42
Speaker 1: So that's another possible theory for what went through my
17:45
Speaker 1: mind when I heard the facts of this case. Actually
17:47
Speaker 1: am I joining us investigating reporter K. S L Actually, again,
17:52
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do we know
17:54
Speaker 1: about that night? So we knew that they after they
17:57
Speaker 1: went to guitar, at some point they got into an
18:00
Speaker 1: argument and she lust on her own and he found
18:04
Speaker 1: your right with someone else. And please have not said
18:07
Speaker 1: who that person was, whether it was someone he knew,
18:10
Speaker 1: or someone he met at the bar, or even a
18:12
Speaker 1: right share service. That he let her know that he
18:16
Speaker 1: was going to take up his belongings. From her house
18:19
Speaker 1: hold on just a second. When you say he let
18:21
Speaker 1: her know, you're talking about Denise Bagley, Lashawan Denise Bagley.
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Speaker 1: So is Bagley the on off girlfriend? That's what please see? Okay,
18:33
Speaker 1: so we're talking about Lashawn Bagley is the on off girlfriend. Guys,
18:38
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut forty one. This is
18:40
Speaker 1: our friends at crime online. To meet Fris Allen and
18:43
Speaker 1: Lashawn Bagley went to a downtown Salt Lake City bar
18:46
Speaker 1: after the Utah State Fair. The couple got into an
18:49
Speaker 1: argument and Bagley went home without Allen. Police say Alan
18:54
Speaker 1: got a ride to the apartment to pick up his things.
18:57
Speaker 1: During the drive, he reportedly tried to call and text
19:00
Speaker 1: Bagley and he was coming. According to the police at
19:03
Speaker 1: the day that once Allan and the person who drove
19:05
Speaker 1: him arrived, they both knocked on the door, saying they
19:08
Speaker 1: wanted to get Allan's belongings. The woman drove back to
19:12
Speaker 1: her apartment. Then, police say a witness and Allan showed
19:15
Speaker 1: up to the apartment to grab his things. That's when
19:18
Speaker 1: police say twenty one year old Lashawn Bagley fired several
19:21
Speaker 1: shots through the front door, hitting Allen in the torso.
19:25
Speaker 1: He died from his injuries. Police arrested twenty one year
19:28
Speaker 1: old Lashawn Bagley booked into jail on murder and felony
19:32
Speaker 1: discharge of a firearm good gravy. It's just like Ashley
19:36
Speaker 1: m Way from KSL is telling us, joining me right now,
19:40
Speaker 1: Chief deputy with the Pitt County Sheriff's Office in Greenville,
19:43
Speaker 1: specializing in domestic violence cases. There is no way this
19:48
Speaker 1: woman is going to be able to claim self defense.
19:51
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why, John Guard, because she shot through
19:55
Speaker 1: the door. Alsie wasn't even through the door according to
20:00
Speaker 1: the witness, and I'm sure cell phones data will show
20:04
Speaker 1: this if it's true. Tex said and called her in
20:07
Speaker 1: a route to say, look, I'm coming to get my stuff.
20:10
Speaker 1: So she's not going to be able to claim self defense.
20:12
Speaker 1: The door was closed. Well, based off what's been released
20:15
Speaker 1: so far in my review of everything, it would be difficult.
20:18
Speaker 1: But again it's it's based on what's known and what's
20:21
Speaker 1: been released stuck. Hasn't been an overwhelming amount of information
20:25
Speaker 1: released by the police. There just really the basics. But
20:31
Speaker 1: based on what we know now, yeah, one would assume
20:34
Speaker 1: that would be somewhat of a difficult argument. N Uphill
20:38
Speaker 1: will buy an along lap. Yeah, let's take a listen
20:40
Speaker 1: to our cut number forty our friends at crime Online.
20:44
Speaker 1: Police in Salt Lake City received a call just after
20:47
Speaker 1: midnight on Monday about a man shot outside an apartment.
20:50
Speaker 1: Responding officers found Demetrius O. Marletti fallen outside an apartment
20:55
Speaker 1: with at least one gunshot wound. Alan did not live
20:58
Speaker 1: at the apartment where he died. Beliefe say. The professional
21:01
Speaker 1: bull rider was in Salt Lake City to compete in
21:03
Speaker 1: an event at the Utah State Fair. He had arranged
21:07
Speaker 1: to stay with his on again, off again girlfriend. After
21:10
Speaker 1: the fair, Allan and his friend went to a downtown
21:13
Speaker 1: bar but got into an argument. Alan went to the
21:16
Speaker 1: apartment to get his things when shots rang out. Okay,
21:19
Speaker 1: Brad m. Micklin, high profile lawyer joining us from the
21:24
Speaker 1: Micklin Law Group. Brad, no way, this woman this on
21:30
Speaker 1: off again girlfriend. Oh hey, actually, mway, is she the
21:34
Speaker 1: mother of the little girl's Okay? So that's another woman,
21:38
Speaker 1: and this is the girlfriend since he had the baby. Okay,
21:42
Speaker 1: So he's got the little girl and the mother of
21:46
Speaker 1: the little girl is Natitia Haywood, I believe. And then
21:52
Speaker 1: we've got this woman, Lashawn Bagley. Okay, got it back
21:56
Speaker 1: to you, Brad Micklin. Even with your or courtroom skills,
22:01
Speaker 1: there's no way this one is going to pull off
22:03
Speaker 1: self defense. She shot through a door. That's like they
22:05
Speaker 1: do in the movies. Remember shooting through the door. I
22:10
Speaker 1: mean the guy wasn't even through the door, for Pete's
22:12
Speaker 1: sake before she unloaded a barrage of bullets. Yeah. I
22:15
Speaker 1: certainly hope you're right, Nancy. I mean, unfortunately, we never
22:18
Speaker 1: know what a jury's got to decide, but I'd be
22:21
Speaker 1: hard pressed to believe that anybody would believe that this
22:24
Speaker 1: was self defense or even a domestic violence homicide. It's
22:27
Speaker 1: nothing short of murder. Brad Micklin, You know you keep
22:30
Speaker 1: talking like that and Doli Shaun Denise Bagley's not going
22:33
Speaker 1: to hire you. How could she possibly come up with
22:39
Speaker 1: a defense in this case. He told her he was
22:41
Speaker 1: coming to get his things, and it's pretty much like
22:44
Speaker 1: doctor Mechanic hypothesized, he's coming to get his things to
22:49
Speaker 1: get the hay out of Dodge and she's like, yo, no,
22:53
Speaker 1: you're not taking your things in leaving. I don't care
22:56
Speaker 1: if you are a rodeo star. I can't have you
23:00
Speaker 1: nobody's going to have you. And when he comes to
23:02
Speaker 1: the door, she knows he's coming. He's called, he's left messages,
23:06
Speaker 1: he's texted. She unloads a hail of bullets and kills him.
23:12
Speaker 1: It's very clear to me, what do you do with that? Well, well,
23:15
Speaker 1: if I had to, unfortunately represent her, I would look
23:19
Speaker 1: to the cycle of violence. Was there her significant past
23:24
Speaker 1: violence in this relationship? Was she raised in abusive relationships,
23:28
Speaker 1: even if it's just to negate her intent, her ability
23:31
Speaker 1: to control her actions. If she was a longstanding victim
23:34
Speaker 1: of serious violence in much of the buy her actions.
23:37
Speaker 1: But I don't feel that way. Do you have even
23:40
Speaker 1: a shred of evidence that she was a domestic violence victim?
23:47
Speaker 1: Even a shred? No. I was disappointed that they even
23:51
Speaker 1: labeled this immediately as a domestic violence homicide, because just
23:55
Speaker 1: because you're in an intimate relationship and there's a violence
23:58
Speaker 1: doesn't mean your domestic violence victim. I think that's a
24:01
Speaker 1: very unique type of relationship. And this kind of label
24:05
Speaker 1: causes us, or will cause us, to look at Amsie.
24:09
Speaker 1: What did he do something wrong? Was he abus it?
24:13
Speaker 1: He's the victim? And if we start looking to her
24:15
Speaker 1: and say, well, why did she do this? Because it
24:18
Speaker 1: was domestic violence, we lose the fact that he was
24:20
Speaker 1: a victim of a vicious shooting. To doctor Tim Gallagher,
24:23
Speaker 1: a medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, Doctor Gallagher,
24:27
Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine what type you know. You don't
24:30
Speaker 1: win a football game, a baseball game, a basketball game,
24:35
Speaker 1: a jury trial on your skills alone. You if you
24:39
Speaker 1: want to win, you have to anticipate what the other
24:42
Speaker 1: side is going to do and then destroy it before
24:45
Speaker 1: it happens. You gotta think, You gotta think, what are
24:49
Speaker 1: they going to say, what are they going to do?
24:51
Speaker 1: How can I fight that? How can I stop it?
24:52
Speaker 1: How can I foil it before it even happens. So
24:55
Speaker 1: in this case, I'm imagining she's going to claim some
24:58
Speaker 1: kind of self defen it's climbs and kind of battered
25:01
Speaker 1: women's climb, whether it's true or not, and she might
25:05
Speaker 1: try to climb she was not the shooter. That some
25:10
Speaker 1: money on the outside of the house did it. But
25:13
Speaker 1: is there a possibility, doctor Tim Gallagher, that the bullets
25:19
Speaker 1: may have a splinter or some type of wood debris
25:24
Speaker 1: on them. Well, from my understanding, the door was made
25:28
Speaker 1: from glass. That's right, So we can very well inspect
25:33
Speaker 1: the nose of the bullet for glass. Typically in full
25:37
Speaker 1: jacketed bullets, you know you will not find it because
25:40
Speaker 1: the soft part of the bullet is covered in brass,
25:44
Speaker 1: which is a hard metal. But if it's an exposed
25:46
Speaker 1: lead nose of the bullet, it'll often pick up the
25:50
Speaker 1: glass and we can find that in the lead core
25:54
Speaker 1: of the bullet. What do you mean by by full jacketed, Well,
25:57
Speaker 1: the bullet is lead. It's made from a very soft
26:03
Speaker 1: metal called lead, and lead deforms very easily, especially when
26:08
Speaker 1: you're loading it into the gun when you're storing it,
26:11
Speaker 1: so you want to protect that lead, and so you
26:13
Speaker 1: put a coating of brass or copper or some harder
26:18
Speaker 1: metal over it so the lead core doesn't get damaged.
26:22
Speaker 1: Then when you fire that bullet, the outer core of
26:27
Speaker 1: the metal, which is very thin, will break away and
26:31
Speaker 1: then it'll expose the lead once it goes into the body,
26:34
Speaker 1: and then that lead will do its damage within the body.
26:38
Speaker 1: You want to find really interesting, Doctor Mindy B. Mechanic
26:43
Speaker 1: joining US California State University, Fullerton. He didn't say, watch out, b,
26:49
Speaker 1: I'm coming over to beat your a double ass. He said,
26:53
Speaker 1: I'm coming over, get my stuff. I'm out of here.
26:56
Speaker 1: That is what the witness says. That is what I
26:58
Speaker 1: believe the cell phone that's just will say if they
27:01
Speaker 1: are properly subpoenaed and taken from the iCloud hello, please
27:08
Speaker 1: hear me police. So for her to claim any type
27:13
Speaker 1: of self defense or she was scared, unless there is
27:17
Speaker 1: some record of domestic assault, which we do not have
27:21
Speaker 1: in this case on Aunci, I think it's very clear
27:25
Speaker 1: she didn't want them to take a stuff and leave.
27:28
Speaker 1: She didn't want the fight to be over. Doctor Mechanic, Well,
27:31
Speaker 1: that is how it's appearing at this point. It doesn't
27:34
Speaker 1: seem like there is any evidence that we heard so
27:36
Speaker 1: far of any type of physical fight or any type
27:40
Speaker 1: of violence that was proximal or preceding her shooting the gun.
27:45
Speaker 1: It sounds like there was there was a long period
27:47
Speaker 1: of time and that what she knew was he was
27:50
Speaker 1: coming to take his stuff and leave. So that's why
27:54
Speaker 1: my mind started going towards maybe this is an act
27:56
Speaker 1: of separation violence that she was unwilling to accept the term.
28:00
Speaker 1: She was saying, what is that? A separation violence? Just
28:03
Speaker 1: focuses on people using violence in a relationship because they
28:09
Speaker 1: refuse to accept the other person ending their relationship or
28:13
Speaker 1: leaving them and moving on. And so instead of saying, hey,
28:17
Speaker 1: it's okay, we both move on, they commit violence. The
28:20
Speaker 1: violent acts often homicide, you know, to express their their
28:25
Speaker 1: rage and their unwillingness to accept the other person's decision
28:28
Speaker 1: to move on. Doctor Mechanic, I hear what you're saying
28:31
Speaker 1: about separation violence. Heard of this phenomenon before, but I
28:37
Speaker 1: bet it's got a psychological label. When you're in an
28:42
Speaker 1: argument with someone and the other person just leaves for
28:48
Speaker 1: some reason that infuriates the other party. They don't want
28:53
Speaker 1: the fight to be over. What is that dynamic? It's control, right,
28:58
Speaker 1: it's not accepting the other person's autonomy, agency independence to
29:03
Speaker 1: say hey, I'm whatever, I'm walking out the door, I'm
29:06
Speaker 1: ending this conversation. So the person is basically exerting control
29:10
Speaker 1: and saying I won't accept you doing what you're doing.
29:14
Speaker 1: I'm going to control this situation. You know. We always hear,
29:18
Speaker 1: based on statistics that the most dangerous time for a
29:21
Speaker 1: battered woman in a battering relationship is when she finally
29:25
Speaker 1: tries to leave. Yes, but guess what as much as
29:30
Speaker 1: I scream from the hilltops about domestic violence on women today,
29:35
Speaker 1: that she is on the other foot. I want you
29:39
Speaker 1: to take a listen to a male victim of domestic
29:45
Speaker 1: battering and a lot more by his female partner. This
29:49
Speaker 1: is Alex Skill on GMB. Listen to our cut fourteen.
29:54
Speaker 1: So let's start at the beginning of your story. Because
29:56
Speaker 1: you met her at college in twenty twelve. You're both sixteen.
30:00
Speaker 1: This was your first relationship. What was she like? How
30:03
Speaker 1: did that relationship begin? It was fine, it was good,
30:06
Speaker 1: and it was it seemed normal and more from Alex
30:12
Speaker 1: still on GMB, starting with our cut fifteen, and should
30:16
Speaker 1: say she was she is an intelligent woman, but she
30:20
Speaker 1: used that against you. Yeah, she was academically very bright.
30:24
Speaker 1: She got a lot of a's, went to university obviously,
30:26
Speaker 1: and I wasn't of that type. And I think she
30:28
Speaker 1: used that quite a lot. In what way? What did
30:30
Speaker 1: she do just to belittle me? So you're dumb, you're stupid,
30:34
Speaker 1: you're vic all the time? Sixteen, You move in together
30:37
Speaker 1: and this is where the physical abuse starts. And I
30:41
Speaker 1: mean this, this started off where she'd be hitting you
30:44
Speaker 1: over the head with bottles and yeah, yeah, and knives
30:47
Speaker 1: were used also in what way? How did she I
30:51
Speaker 1: was lying in the bed and she would wait till
30:54
Speaker 1: a sleep and just hit me on the head of
30:55
Speaker 1: a bottle. I managed to get rid of the bottle,
30:57
Speaker 1: and then she moved on to a hammer, started hitting
31:01
Speaker 1: me with hammers everywhere like my shin's arms, head and
31:07
Speaker 1: then I managed to throw that hammer in the field opposite.
31:11
Speaker 1: So far it's over. But then everything she could find
31:14
Speaker 1: to hit me with. From bits of wood crime stories
31:30
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, I want to go out to Brad
31:36
Speaker 1: in Nicklin High Profile Law. You're a managing member of
31:39
Speaker 1: the Nicklin Law Group. His specialty is men's divorce, custody
31:44
Speaker 1: and family law. The phenomena of a man being the
31:50
Speaker 1: domestic violence victim at the hand of a woman is
31:54
Speaker 1: not unheard of. No, it's not unheard of. I mean
31:57
Speaker 1: it's always been there. There are just as many abused
32:00
Speaker 1: as violent women as there are men. Recognition in't believe that. Well,
32:04
Speaker 1: how can you say that? That's the bias that we
32:06
Speaker 1: all face. When a man in a heterosexual relationship calls
32:10
Speaker 1: the police and says I'm being abused, more often than not,
32:13
Speaker 1: the police will eager arrest him or tell him to
32:17
Speaker 1: leave and let it cool down. There's a bias in
32:20
Speaker 1: our system or legal system. There's a bias with police
32:22
Speaker 1: departments that men aren't victim and that makes it harder
32:25
Speaker 1: for men to report it, to leave it, to separate
32:29
Speaker 1: themselves from the violence, because they're faced with such difficulties
32:32
Speaker 1: getting out. Okay, see, I think you, Brad Micklin, who
32:39
Speaker 1: is a stellar trial lawyer, want a lot of cases.
32:42
Speaker 1: I think you lose a little bit of credibility when
32:44
Speaker 1: you try to tell the world there are just as
32:46
Speaker 1: many male victims of domestic violence as there are female.
32:50
Speaker 1: That's just very simply not true statistics. That's what I said.
32:55
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I said there are just as many violent
32:59
Speaker 1: and abusive women as there are violent and abusive men.
33:01
Speaker 1: That's like saying that there are no abusive lawyers or
33:05
Speaker 1: doctors are they're good in bed and all people on
33:08
Speaker 1: all races and all genders and all occupations. To say
33:11
Speaker 1: that men are less often victims is the bias and
33:15
Speaker 1: the problem that our system needs to address. Okay, I'm
33:17
Speaker 1: going to go to National statistics and maybe you know
33:21
Speaker 1: more than the Department of Justice, but on an average
33:25
Speaker 1: twenty people per minute physically abused by an intimate partner.
33:29
Speaker 1: In the US, more than ten million women and men,
33:34
Speaker 1: one in four women and one in nine men experience
33:39
Speaker 1: domestic violence, Doctor Mindy Mechanics, is that your experience that
33:44
Speaker 1: there are just as many men victims of domestic violence
33:48
Speaker 1: as women. So I don't want to speak from personal anecdote.
33:51
Speaker 1: I prefer to rely on data. So what I'll tell
33:54
Speaker 1: you is that research has looked at this quite extensively,
33:58
Speaker 1: and where we find gender parody, meaning women and men
34:02
Speaker 1: engage in about the same rates of intimate partner abuse
34:06
Speaker 1: is when we look at low level acts of violence,
34:10
Speaker 1: so that would be things like pushing, slapping, shoving, and
34:14
Speaker 1: verbal abuse yelling. That kind of thing actually is engaged
34:18
Speaker 1: in and roughly equal measure. But the kind of serious,
34:22
Speaker 1: injurious violence that caused women caused in people to seek
34:27
Speaker 1: attention for yes, injuries, that kind of the kind that
34:31
Speaker 1: usually ends up resulting in depth of that is very
34:35
Speaker 1: disproportionately well. According to the National Crime Victimization Study, and
34:41
Speaker 1: it was nearly ten year study, twenty four percent of
34:45
Speaker 1: domestic violence survivors are men, which means that seventy six
34:50
Speaker 1: percent are women. Now you know that those are statistics.
34:55
Speaker 1: Statistics are never allowed in court. But back to a
34:59
Speaker 1: perfect example of a male being a victim of domestic
35:04
Speaker 1: violence at the hands of a female. Take a listen
35:07
Speaker 1: again to Alex Skill on GMB. She made you made
35:12
Speaker 1: you sleep on floor? Yeah, I slept on the floor
35:14
Speaker 1: for about eight months with I had to wear my
35:17
Speaker 1: own clothes that I wore in the day. I probably
35:19
Speaker 1: wore the same clothes about four days because I couldn't
35:21
Speaker 1: take it off because and I was putting clothes on
35:24
Speaker 1: top of me as my quilt, and I had clothes
35:25
Speaker 1: as a pillow. And you were too scared to complain
35:29
Speaker 1: or do anything about this. Yeah, there was nothing I
35:34
Speaker 1: could do. I had no way of contacting anyone. And
35:36
Speaker 1: if I did do it, I would have. She told
35:39
Speaker 1: me if I ever tried to leave, she'd kill me.
35:40
Speaker 1: When did she burn you? She started stabbing me before
35:44
Speaker 1: that with a knife, And she wouldn't stab, she would
35:48
Speaker 1: hit with a knife as if it was a weapon.
35:50
Speaker 1: She'd hit so it'd leave big gashes. And they were
35:52
Speaker 1: left untreated. And then after it was November time, we
35:56
Speaker 1: went to go and watch a concert and I woke
36:00
Speaker 1: up because she was pouring boiling water onto my back.
36:04
Speaker 1: It was like an alarm call of yeah yeah. So
36:08
Speaker 1: we see the violence at the hands of the female
36:12
Speaker 1: partner on the male, escalating from hitting to severe beatings
36:19
Speaker 1: to stabbing, cutting, to pouring boiling water. You may ask
36:24
Speaker 1: why didn't he tell cops, why didn't he leave take
36:28
Speaker 1: a listen, question me in the house. We know it's
36:31
Speaker 1: not you doing it to yourself. And so the other
36:35
Speaker 1: he sat me in the car and he said, you're
36:38
Speaker 1: not getting out of this car until you told me
36:40
Speaker 1: the truth. And I said, I'm doing it to myself
36:43
Speaker 1: and he goes, you're not. He switched his body camera
36:45
Speaker 1: and he goes, you're gonna tell me now straight away.
36:48
Speaker 1: So as soon as I knew that no one else
36:49
Speaker 1: was watching it, just me and him, yeah, it come out.
36:52
Speaker 1: And I said, please just go on the neighbors accusations
36:55
Speaker 1: and don't say it's from me. Even with the cops
36:57
Speaker 1: flanking him, he was afraid to make the client himself.
37:01
Speaker 1: He was being horribly abused by his female partner. We
37:04
Speaker 1: have just witnessed this in Miami with the only fans
37:09
Speaker 1: model and her longtime boyfriend. Take a list our friends
37:13
Speaker 1: at ws v N and WPLG A bloody Sunday domestic
37:18
Speaker 1: killing inside a trendy Miami high rise. I think everybody
37:22
Speaker 1: in shock actually ate craberd Out. These images come courtesy
37:26
Speaker 1: of TMZ. The Sparkling One Putty So condominium is where
37:30
Speaker 1: it got violent days ago, and now a twenty seven
37:33
Speaker 1: year old man is dead and his family is devastating.
37:39
Speaker 1: This trio was very close to twenty seven year old
37:41
Speaker 1: Christian Obumselli and his girlfriend, who they've identified as twenty
37:45
Speaker 1: five year old Courtney Clenny and only fans model and
37:47
Speaker 1: Instagram influencer. So when police reported that Obumselly was fatally
37:51
Speaker 1: stabbed by Clenny on Sunday inside their Miami apartment, the
37:54
Speaker 1: friends were left speechless. They portray a very violent relationship
37:58
Speaker 1: at the hands of only one person seen her hit him.
38:02
Speaker 1: I've never seen him hit her. And the only fans
38:07
Speaker 1: model is behind bars right now on a murder charge.
38:10
Speaker 1: But who could forget the poster girl for stalking, terrorizing
38:16
Speaker 1: and murder Jody Arius listen with all these lies, right
38:20
Speaker 1: and the jury knows that these are lies, but she's
38:23
Speaker 1: still claiming self defense. Now, last time I checked there
38:27
Speaker 1: was no witness to this confrontation other than the accidental
38:30
Speaker 1: photos that were taken. She has to testify, doesn't she
38:34
Speaker 1: if she she wanted anyone to believe the catch man
38:37
Speaker 1: nine stab wounds to the back. That was the reality
38:41
Speaker 1: check I was about to give Vinnie Politan And it's
38:45
Speaker 1: just like doctor Mindy mechanics, says Jody Arius knew Travis
38:49
Speaker 1: Alexander was about to leave her and take another girl
38:52
Speaker 1: on an exotic vacation, and it all ended the stalking,
38:58
Speaker 1: the pursue, the anger, and then the moment she finally
39:03
Speaker 1: realizes he's leaving. Same thing happened with Shana Hubers when
39:08
Speaker 1: she realized her boyfriend they were broken up, up and
39:12
Speaker 1: coming Lawyer Posting was having a date that night. I
39:16
Speaker 1: think it was Miss Ohio. The fact that he was
39:19
Speaker 1: leaving her losing control was too much for her to take.
39:23
Speaker 1: Listen our friends at Fox nineteen. Cecily Miller testified that
39:27
Speaker 1: Hubers knew that Posting was going on a date with
39:29
Speaker 1: Miss Ohio. Audrey BOLTI the night she shot and killed him.
39:32
Speaker 1: When I remember is when she shot him, it was
39:36
Speaker 1: like bang bang bang, bababean. It's grayed and then She
39:39
Speaker 1: sit down and she said, I just gave a nose
39:40
Speaker 1: job he always wanted. Cackle left. She shoots him in
39:44
Speaker 1: the face and says, I gave him the nose job
39:46
Speaker 1: he always wanted. Well she can rotten Hell Ashley Emily
39:50
Speaker 1: joining me K s L. Where is Lashawn Denise Bagley?
39:55
Speaker 1: Right now? Right now, she's in this thought leak Johnny
39:58
Speaker 1: Chill and being held the Nobel warrant? Is it for murder? Yes?
40:03
Speaker 1: For investigation of murder. She has not yet been formally charged.
40:07
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds for rodeo star friend and
40:13
Speaker 1: father Bouncey Mitchell did at twenty seven Goodbye friend,