Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1044 - Q&A: Tearaway Toddlers & Staying in School

Transcript

#1044 - Q&A: Tearaway Toddlers & Staying in School · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers mew.
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  Speaker 2: Today on the Happy Families Podcast, we are answering two
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  Speaker 2: troublesome questions for parents who would like to make their
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  Speaker 2: families happier. Number one, we're going to take on the
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  Speaker 2: issue of toddler's running away towards the road when you
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  Speaker 2: go to the park, or to the shops or pretty
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  Speaker 2: much anywhere. I don't know what it is. Two year
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  Speaker 2: olds they see the road, they go for it. And
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  Speaker 2: also the ongoing challenge of school refusal. We get so
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  Speaker 2: many questions about this. We're going to talk about emotion
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  Speaker 2: based school avoidance once again, this time for teenagers. If
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  Speaker 2: you would like to submit a question, we answer your
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  Speaker 2: questions every Tuesday on the podcast. Go to Happy Families
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  Speaker 2: dot com dot au, click on the podcast link and
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  Speaker 2: then you push the record button to submit your questions.
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  Speaker 2: It's that simple. So question number one.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, my name is back and I'm from Sydney. Two
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  Speaker 1: small girls, four months and just a little over two.
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  Speaker 1: My two year old is just wonderful. She's bright and joyful.
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  Speaker 1: She however, runs away. We have spoken about car safety
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  Speaker 1: reenacted what to do around roads and explained to her
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  Speaker 1: boundaries when we arrive at playgrounds, but a couple of
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  Speaker 1: times at non fence playgrounds or at fence playgrounds without
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  Speaker 1: gates just gaps in the fencing, I have needed to
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  Speaker 1: ditch the pram and chase her to the edge of
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  Speaker 1: the road or close enough for great discomfort. Other than
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  Speaker 1: just not going where there's any room for escaping? What
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  Speaker 1: can I do? How do I support her to be
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  Speaker 1: safe in this situation and long term in other situations?
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your help.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, Beck love the question, Thanks so much for submitting it,
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  Speaker 2: and I really love the thoughtful way that you've put
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  Speaker 2: this together. Also love how the four month old is
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  Speaker 2: in the background trying to be part of the conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Been there, done that. Okay, So you've explained, you've role played,
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  Speaker 2: you've prepped, and your two year old is still running
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  Speaker 2: toward the road. Running away is totally normal. I'm so sorry.
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  Speaker 2: It's also totally scary. And that's the big challenge here, right.
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  Speaker 2: You know that it's not safe in some ways. Your
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  Speaker 2: toddler does as well, but they really cognitively they have
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  Speaker 2: no concept of what it means to really be unsafe,
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  Speaker 2: probably because you've done a great job of keeping your
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  Speaker 2: child safe, and so therefore they're interested in exploring. Like
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  Speaker 2: I said, totally developmentally appropriate, totally scary. Historically, if we
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  Speaker 2: look at the ancient record or even a couple of
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  Speaker 2: centuries ago, this was a big challenge even then, and
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  Speaker 2: so when parents had young children, they would swaddle them,
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  Speaker 2: keep them wrapped up, because that way they couldn't go anywhere.
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  Speaker 2: Even then, sometimes they'd roll into where the animals were
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  Speaker 2: or into the fireplace. As the kids get old and
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  Speaker 2: they start to get really mobile, like a very mobile
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  Speaker 2: two year old, there were issues about them going into
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  Speaker 2: the river or the lake or the forest, and so
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  Speaker 2: parents made up stories about goblins and monsters that were
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  Speaker 2: going to destroy them, eat them, steal them, all that
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  Speaker 2: kind of stuff, which I mean, you know, you can
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  Speaker 2: make up those stories if you want, but your kiddo
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  Speaker 2: is probably not really going to believe you, and may
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  Speaker 2: end up believing that the world is a really, really
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  Speaker 2: dangerous place. I don't know that that's that troublesome that concerning.
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  Speaker 2: There was a fun book called Hunt, Gather Parent that
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  Speaker 2: was written by somebody called Michael Leen du Clef a
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  Speaker 2: couple of years ago. In that book, Michael Lean talks
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  Speaker 2: about that, and it works really well even for the
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  Speaker 2: Eskimos living in North America. The people are the Mayans
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  Speaker 2: living in the Yucatan Peninsula. They still make up those
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  Speaker 2: stories and the kids end up safe most of the time.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about some solutions if you don't want to
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  Speaker 2: make up horrible stories about what's going to happen if
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  Speaker 2: they go near the road, which probably won't make a
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  Speaker 2: big difference anyway. Number one, The good news, your child
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  Speaker 2: feels safe. Your child actually feels safe, which means that
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  Speaker 2: your child feels secure and exploring, knowing that she can
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  Speaker 2: come back to you when things are dangerous. The bad news,
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  Speaker 2: your child feels safe, which means that she explores and
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  Speaker 2: she doesn't really know when things are dangerous, which means
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  Speaker 2: that she's potentially not coming back to you. Now, every
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  Speaker 2: now and again, I talk to a parent who says,
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  Speaker 2: I just call their bluff. I say, okay, bye, I
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  Speaker 2: have fun running on the road, and then I sit
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  Speaker 2: there and watch. I haven't got the stomach for that.
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  Speaker 2: I can't tolerate the discomfort associated with that, because if
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  Speaker 2: your child takes three extra steps, goes that extra meter
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  Speaker 2: and a half and ends up on the road on
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  Speaker 2: the bitchman. Well, that could be catastrophic. So what do
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  Speaker 2: you do? And Number one I reckon. Just keep on explaining,
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  Speaker 2: keep on having the conversation. This is something that you're
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  Speaker 2: going to need to talk about ongoingly, not necessarily road safety,
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  Speaker 2: but there will always be a safety issue for you
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  Speaker 2: to talk about with your child. It'll go from being
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  Speaker 2: road safety to body safety to I don't know, moral safety.
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  Speaker 2: It just keeps on happening over and over and over
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  Speaker 2: again as your child gets older. This is part of life.
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  Speaker 2: It's just you're at the toddler road safety issue right now.
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  Speaker 2: Something that can be useful here is getting your child
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  Speaker 2: to ex playing it to you. That doesn't always work
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  Speaker 2: because toddler's cognitive capacity, especially once they get emotional and excited,
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  Speaker 2: can be quite limited. But that's my solution. Their next solution.
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  Speaker 2: Be vigilant. This is a developmental stage. Your child will
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  Speaker 2: grow through it. Sometimes you just got to be on
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  Speaker 2: top of it and recognize if you go to a venue,
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  Speaker 2: a park, whatever, where there is the capacity for your
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  Speaker 2: child to get beyond defense, or if there is no
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  Speaker 2: offence and they could be on the road. You need
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  Speaker 2: to be vigilant full step. End of story. Other ideas
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  Speaker 2: lots of attention to running near the road can be
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  Speaker 2: absolutely delightful for your child. They get a whole lot
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  Speaker 2: of power out of it. They think that it's so
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  Speaker 2: much fun. They get the giggles. They see you chasing,
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  Speaker 2: and they think this is wonderful. I'm getting all this
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  Speaker 2: attention and they feel kind of powerful. But there's traffic there,
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  Speaker 2: so do what you musk. Here's the one piece of
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  Speaker 2: advice that might be really useful, though, and that is
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  Speaker 2: don't over respond in less worrisome situations. It's not always
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  Speaker 2: going to be about cars and traffic and genuine danger.
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  Speaker 2: Other times we overrespond and they still get the giggles,
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  Speaker 2: they still get the chase, they still get the power.
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  Speaker 2: But we could have just left it alone. So try
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  Speaker 2: to be as discerning as you can, relax where possible,
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  Speaker 2: don't step in unless you have to. I think that's
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  Speaker 2: going to make a difference. A couple of other solutions,
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  Speaker 2: maybe three other quick solutions after you remember that it's normal.
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  Speaker 2: Number one, always hold hands, just keep them attached to you.
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  Speaker 2: Number two, don't take them sometimes that's the best solution. Now, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: if you're going for an outing to the park, you
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  Speaker 2: need to take them. But if you're going shopping or
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  Speaker 2: you've got to run some errands, if there's any way
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  Speaker 2: that you can leave that child behind. They hate doing
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  Speaker 2: that stuff anyway, leave them with another adult that they
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  Speaker 2: can have better quality time with. Number three, be proactive.
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  Speaker 2: Not only are we working on explanations here, but go
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  Speaker 2: to places where it's safe. To the extent that you
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  Speaker 2: can do that, they're my best options. Otherwise, wait it out,
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  Speaker 2: let her grow it out. It will stop. Keep her
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  Speaker 2: safe in the meantime. Up next question number two. Question
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  Speaker 2: number two.
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  Speaker 3: Hello Karen from Bristine. I do have some problems with
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  Speaker 3: my daughter going to school. She gets out of going
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  Speaker 3: to school approximately one day a month, I thought, but
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  Speaker 3: she told the pediatrician today it's more like one day
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  Speaker 3: a week. But I think that's a really high number
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  Speaker 3: of days off. But she's actually pretty good at figuring
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  Speaker 3: out when I'm busy and when I'm working from home,
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  Speaker 3: and she's actually very clever at watching me and working
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  Speaker 3: out when the best time to ask for a day off, and.
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  Speaker 4: She'll usually get it based on my schedule and what
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  Speaker 4: else is going on in my world. So she's very
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  Speaker 4: clever with how she does it, and she's obviously very observant,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, I keep encouraging her to to go
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  Speaker 4: because it's better to not fall behind. And if you
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  Speaker 4: fall behind, then you feel like you're a goose, and
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  Speaker 4: then you don't want to go next time. And it's
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  Speaker 4: better to go because then you keep in touch with
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  Speaker 4: your friends, and you know, there's all these really good
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  Speaker 4: reasons that I try to encourage her. But yeah, it
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  Speaker 4: can be a bit of a struggle sometimes.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, Karen from Brisbane, I hear it. Nobody wants to
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  Speaker 2: feel like a goose. That's such an australianism, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: We have some American friends and the first time they
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  Speaker 2: heard me use the term goose, they thought that was
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  Speaker 2: just hilarious. No kid wants to feel like a goose.
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about their school problems once a month.
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  Speaker 2: I mean that's not ideal. Once a week. That's really concerning.
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  Speaker 2: By some measures, people who do psychological research in this
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  Speaker 2: area would suggest that ten days per term, which is
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  Speaker 2: once a week, would equate to what's known as problematic
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  Speaker 2: school avoidance. This is a pretty high number, and it
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  Speaker 2: sounds like there could be some deceit around this. Now
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  Speaker 2: I've got no idea of the age of your child,
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  Speaker 2: but it does sound like, based on what you've described,
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  Speaker 2: we're dealing with a teenager here. This topic keeps on
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  Speaker 2: coming up in the podcast. Normally we're talking about younger kids.
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  Speaker 2: This time it's an older child, and I think it
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  Speaker 2: is a really big deal. We've got pretty clear messaging
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  Speaker 2: coming from researchers and from the government highlighting that every
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  Speaker 2: day counts. Now, some people take that to more extremes
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  Speaker 2: than others. If you're in the luxurious position of coming
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  Speaker 2: from a reasonably well off home where education is valued
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  Speaker 2: and there's lots of books and there's plenty of resources,
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  Speaker 2: then you can probably afford mental health day now and then.
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  Speaker 2: And it's okay. If you come from a low income
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  Speaker 2: home in an environment where education has not been valued previously,
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  Speaker 2: or there's just some challenges in the environment, every day
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  Speaker 2: really does matter. So there's a bit of a sort
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  Speaker 2: of an economic privilege that goes along with this concept.
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  Speaker 2: Let's just highlight though, there are positives and negatives to
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  Speaker 2: mental health days. If you've got kids that are doing
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  Speaker 2: really well, and they feel like having a day off
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  Speaker 2: because they I just want to rest, or they want
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  Speaker 2: to get on top of things a little bit more.
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  Speaker 2: When you're talking about teenagers, sometimes they can manage that
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  Speaker 2: reasonably well and it does feel good. Plus they get
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  Speaker 2: a sense of autonomy. If you've got a child who
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  Speaker 2: is struggling, or if you've got a child who wants
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  Speaker 2: to have too many mental health days, or if you
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  Speaker 2: just allow it, sometimes they get this sense that they're
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  Speaker 2: entitled to days off and it can blow out into
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  Speaker 2: this problematic school avoidance, which means that there ends up
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  Speaker 2: being too many days and then your kido falls behind,
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  Speaker 2: looks incompetent, and ultimately feels like a goose. So so
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  Speaker 2: how are we supposed to navigate this? I want to
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  Speaker 2: get a little bit, a little bit autobiographical for just
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  Speaker 2: a sec. My parents made me finish year twelve. I
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  Speaker 2: could have finished in year ten. I wanted to be
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  Speaker 2: a radio announcer. If you've listened to the radio, and
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  Speaker 2: you listen to whoever's running breakfast on your local radio station,
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  Speaker 2: you can usually tell that they didn't have to do
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  Speaker 2: that well in high school to be able to have
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  Speaker 2: the career that they've got. I knew that SORR. That
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  Speaker 2: sounded like a pretty derogatory to say, but anyone in
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  Speaker 2: radio knows it's true anyway, So let's move on. I
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  Speaker 2: knew that as a kid, I knew that nobody that
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  Speaker 2: I was looking up to in the radio industry had
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  Speaker 2: a fabulous academic pedigree, and I didn't need one either.
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  Speaker 2: I could have finished in year ten and gone on
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  Speaker 2: with it and been pretty done happy. Mum and Dad
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  Speaker 2: forced me to finish year twelve, and I've spent more
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  Speaker 2: time wagging school and surfing than going to school. They
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  Speaker 2: spent a lot of money, just wasn't great. So I
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  Speaker 2: think the first thing to do here is number one,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: work with the school. Talk to them about what you're seeing,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: ask them what they're seeing. Check to see if your
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  Speaker 2: child's engaged, and talk to the teachers to find out
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: if there are ways that you can help your child
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  Speaker 2: to be more engaged. I mean, the reality is, especially
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  Speaker 2: once you get into high school, sometimes school just feels
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  Speaker 2: like a grind, feels like you're going absolutely nowhere, and
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  Speaker 2: that drives the kids crazy, especially once you get to
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: about grade nine, grade ten. These are just these messy
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  Speaker 2: middle years when nothing much is happening, So work with
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  Speaker 2: the school. Number two, I'd say listen to your kid.
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  Speaker 2: Have a listen to your child. See what's going on
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: for your child, understand them, and get your head around
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  Speaker 2: what it is that they either love or hate about school.
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  Speaker 2: My guess is going to come back to three basic
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  Speaker 2: psychological needs. Their relationships aren't going to be that great,
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  Speaker 2: or they're going to not feel like they're really getting
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  Speaker 2: it together from a competence, capability and progress point of view.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Or they're going to feel controlled because they want to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: go in a different direction and this is just where
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: we're forcing them to be. Once you've got that sorted,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: dive in and attach this to their goals and purpose,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: really understand where they want to go, and make sure
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that they're going to make progress rather than be a passenger.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: No one likes passengers. Everyone likes to be making progress.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: If you can attach their education to their goals on purpose,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: they're going to be much more engaged. They're going to
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  Speaker 2: buy in and just do a better job as a student.
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  Speaker 2: What that also means, number four is that we need
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: to consider legitimate alternative strategies. If they've got a goal
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: or a purpose that is not oriented towards an academic outcome. Now,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: finishing each world does matter. We've got pretty good data
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: in a recent parliamentary inquiry. People who finish your twelve
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: earn a lot more money than people who don't, They
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: have better well being outcomes. It generally makes a big difference.
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  Speaker 2: But there are some people who don't finish your twelve
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  Speaker 2: who live incredible lives because they've tied it in with
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: their purpose and they are heading in a positive direction.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: They're earning or they're learning, and they're heading in the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: right direction. So I guess that brings me to my
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: fifth and final point, and that is this you need
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  Speaker 2: as a parent. You want as a parent to emphasize
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that sometimes school really does suck. Right, I'm sorry for
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: being so blunt about it, but sometimes school is the worst,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: but it can get you where you want to go.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: And the difference between finishing and not finishing well. Not
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: finishing casts a pretty long shadow through the rest of
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: your life. Like I said, unless you've got some really
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: strong alternative purpose that's going to get you where you
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: want to go, Worth the conversation with the school, Worth
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the conversation with your child, worth working it out and
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: absolutely absolutely considering whatever alternatives are necessary to get your
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: child through this. It really matters. It will make a
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: big difference that certification is valuable. Really hope that these
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: questions have been answered to your satisfaction, have given you
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: some ideas for your conversations with your kiddos to keep
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: them safe and help them to progress. If you would
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: like to submit a question, jump onto Happy families dot
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: com dot you next Tuesday. I'll answer it to more
• 14:20
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