Latest / Mud & Rib Podcast / Connecting Part 3 - The Well Digger: Chasing Pleasure, Losing Connection

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Connecting Part 3 - The Well Digger: Chasing Pleasure, Losing Connection · Mud & Rib Podcast

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  [music]
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  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Mud and Red Podcast.
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  SPEAKER_00: Our podcast is about love, life, and leadership.
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  SPEAKER_00: And today we are on part three of our Connecting Series.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the Connecting Series is about urges that rob us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so Guy's gonna recap for us kind of what our last two episodes have been about.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we are going to cover four what we call metaphors or prophetic images from
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  SPEAKER_01: the prophets of the Old Testament.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thus far,
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  SPEAKER_01: we have covered city building,
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  SPEAKER_01: And fire lighting and how in each of those there's there's urges within being
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  SPEAKER_01: a city builder to try to build people around your vision and your way rather
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  SPEAKER_01: than God's way and building and looking for his city and seeking his kingdom.
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  SPEAKER_01: You gather people around you to false connect so that you can build something
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  SPEAKER_01: on your own apart from God.
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  SPEAKER_01: Then the fire lighting is during times of darkness,
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  SPEAKER_01: we would rather make plans and kind of plan our own way.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
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  SPEAKER_01: Rather than, yeah, I'm a city builder.
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  SPEAKER_01: Rather than trusting God to be the light and to be a light to our path and a lamp unto our feet.
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  SPEAKER_01: Kind of, what is that?
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  SPEAKER_01: Psalms 119, 105, I think.
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  SPEAKER_01: So those are the two we've covered thus far.
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  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to cover what?
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  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to cover...
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  SPEAKER_00: Well-digging.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is something I'm also very adequate at.
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  SPEAKER_01: Are you good at that?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm very adequate at that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Connecting is only possible when our lives are surrendered to Christ.
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  SPEAKER_00: Galatians 5.16 says,
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  SPEAKER_00: So I say,
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  SPEAKER_00: live by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so the metaphors that Guy talked about are what we're going to be covering today.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well-digging.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so let's talk about what is a well digger.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well diggers insist on feeling good now and on their terms.
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  SPEAKER_00: They demand control over their internal experience of well-being.
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  SPEAKER_00: Their commitment to satisfaction on demand dulls their awareness of
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  SPEAKER_00: the impact they have on others as they seek their own pleasure.
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  SPEAKER_00: That lack of concern over their impact gets in the way of connecting.
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  SPEAKER_00: So since you've already confessed your sin that you have a tendency to be
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  SPEAKER_00: the well digger in the family, let's unpack that.
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  SPEAKER_00: What does that actually mean practically speaking?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like what are ways you've seen this happen for you?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, I saw this surface at a pretty young age because I didn't respond well to discipline.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I was disciplined a lot.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because
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  SPEAKER_00: you needed it?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't doubt that I didn't need it.
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  SPEAKER_01: But it almost didn't work.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I'm saying that it...
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, extended periods of grounding worked because that took me out
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  SPEAKER_01: of any seeking pleasure just about because it wasn't like today where you could get
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  SPEAKER_01: on the internet or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was stuck in my room with books.
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  SPEAKER_00: You were removed from everything.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
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  SPEAKER_01: What I saw going on is that I would say, hey, don't ride your motorcycle out on this busy road.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we lived in a fairly rural,
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  SPEAKER_01: somewhat suburban, but it was fairly rural, but there was still a busy road.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so my parents would say, don't ride your motorcycle out there.
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  SPEAKER_01: And man, I would ride my motorcycle every time out there because it was fun.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was faster, you know, and I constantly got in trouble with Doing stuff like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Quit throwing rocks and pears and watermelons at cars.
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  SPEAKER_00: You were hoodlum.
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  SPEAKER_01: But no, I was like,
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  SPEAKER_01: man, it's fun being in those cars and the bus, the school bus particularly, was fun.
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  SPEAKER_01: So just my desire for pleasure at a young age,
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  SPEAKER_01: and there wasn't a whole lot to get in trouble with as far as drugs or anything.
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  SPEAKER_01: That came later.
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  SPEAKER_01: But...
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  SPEAKER_01: There was just this desire to have fun and to have pleasure.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I cared more about that than any discipline.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would take the discipline.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would take a whooping, a beating, whatever, in order to have fun.
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  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
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  SPEAKER_01: And my parents got smart and started grounding me.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that was about the only thing that really worked because then I couldn't do anything.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be bored out of my mind in my bedroom.
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  SPEAKER_00: That just made me think that on the disc profile,
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  SPEAKER_00: you're more of an influencer,
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  SPEAKER_00: the I, and I'm more of a D, which is the dominant wanting to be in control.
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  SPEAKER_00: And knowing that I am more of the firelighter, which is someone that wants to be in control.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is about having fun, which the influencer also wants to have fun.
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  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of pairs with our temperament profile as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: I do have kind of a theory that these urges do tend to blend with behavior types,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I've taught it that way before.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to talk to Phil Reynolds about it more.
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  SPEAKER_01: Who has the one who taught us the disc test and what he thinks about this.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I could see some of those patterns of behavioral style
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  SPEAKER_01: or temperament types pairing up with these metaphors that we're talking about.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think that's I think there is some crossover for sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk more about kind of how this plays out in our lives.
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  SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about maybe biblically.
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  SPEAKER_00: What are the what are the examples that represent this well digger?
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  SPEAKER_01: So this is from Jeremiah 2, 13 through 14.
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  SPEAKER_01: My people have committed two sins.
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  SPEAKER_01: They've forsaken me,
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  SPEAKER_01: the spring of living water,
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  SPEAKER_01: and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
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  SPEAKER_01: Israel, a servant, a slave by birth, why then has he become plunder?
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like we're digging our own wells rather than allowing God to be our living water.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when you think about Jesus saying that, He is living water in John 7, 37-39.
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  SPEAKER_01: On the last and great day of the feast,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the Feast of Booths when this happens,
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  SPEAKER_01: Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
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  SPEAKER_01: If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.
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  SPEAKER_01: Whoever believes in me,
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  SPEAKER_01: as the scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.
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  SPEAKER_01: So again, God is saying that I am thirsty.
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  SPEAKER_01: The living water.
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  SPEAKER_01: I am the one that you can come to and I'll satisfy all your thirst.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is very similar to the dialogue, the conversation of the woman at the well.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And him saying, I am the Messiah.
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  SPEAKER_01: I am the living water.
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  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of us want to go to other sources to kind of dig our own wells,
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  SPEAKER_01: to seek our own satisfaction or pleasure instead of allowing God to satisfy us.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the real downfall of pleasure seeking, that we can find our pleasure in God.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we tend to seek the pleasure that we can find in ourselves and others
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  SPEAKER_01: in addiction and even in self-medicating.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's one thing that we've seen a lot of just in marriage coaching
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  SPEAKER_00: and just relationship coaching just in general and just years of working
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  SPEAKER_00: with people.
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  SPEAKER_00: How many people have we seen allow their marriages to be blown up over a need for pleasure?
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so many situations where we've seen porn be a real problem
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  SPEAKER_00: and often our experiences, it doesn't stop there.
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  SPEAKER_00: It usually no longer satisfies.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so then it moves to something more tangible, an affair, a massage parlor.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we've seen families completely blinded.
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  SPEAKER_00: Blown up over this when you can't get to a place of complete surrendering this to Jesus.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think they call it like the law of diminishing returns.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's just nothing ever can fully satisfy.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like gateway drugs.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, once you do this, then it leads to this.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's very similar to how we talk about saying that the devil wants to have
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  SPEAKER_01: a stronghold in your life and he'll start with a toehold and a foothold that leads
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  SPEAKER_01: to a stronghold, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right about that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think there are these pathways to addiction and to addicted living that
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  SPEAKER_01: when it's almost like nothing can truly satisfy.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you're saying that I want pleasure and pleasure feels satisfying,
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  SPEAKER_01: but it doesn't fully satisfy.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of crazy.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a proverb that talks about basically sin is only last,
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  SPEAKER_00: short term is what I'm trying to say.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so because it's short term, you've got to go back and do something else again.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then that thing may not any longer be enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then it becomes something else.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when he refers to Moses talking about denying the sin of the season,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's a reference to that as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think that's true,
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  SPEAKER_01: that it will only satisfy for a season when God is the one who satisfies
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  SPEAKER_01: through all seasons if we'll learn to trust him.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I think not letting the enemy have a foothold,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's so much in the scriptures about that.
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  SPEAKER_00: In any way, our thought process, the way we act toward people, but a lot of it is our thoughts.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of this starts with thoughts in our mind and not putting that
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  SPEAKER_00: to death immediately.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when we entertain sin and entertain thoughts for too long,
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  SPEAKER_00: then it becomes, as you said, it's no longer a toehold, it's a foothold.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: When I started out in my life,
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  SPEAKER_01: really, my addiction was something that other people would say, well, that's okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was extremely addicted to sports.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it was when I had an injury that the sports were taken away
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  SPEAKER_01: that I started really seeking other things to kind of self-medicate.
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  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is there are things in our lives that may not seem so bad.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we're addicted to them, and that's not good.
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  SPEAKER_01: Rather than trusting God and having a relationship with Him and seeking Him,
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  SPEAKER_01: we can be codependent in a relationship.
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  SPEAKER_01: We can look to sports, even food.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's all kinds of things that we may not necessarily say,
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  SPEAKER_01: oh, well, that person's an alcoholic or a drug addict.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are all kinds of addictions.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm in a relationship with someone that their girlfriend shops all the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, pretty much spends all of their money on shopping and they don't even need the clothes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then they just turn around and give them away and buy more.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's a package in the mail every day because there's such a deep,
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  SPEAKER_00: and this person doesn't have Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_00: but there's a deep, And the way that they try to fill that is through shopping.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I can say that when I was early on and kind of early on in business,
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  SPEAKER_00: this was one thing that I did was shop.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm embarrassed to say, but I had a personal shopper.
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  SPEAKER_00: This was a thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so crazy.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so wild.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so not like you.
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  SPEAKER_01: I just have a hard time imagining that.
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  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not like that at all now.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I had a personal shopper and I felt great satisfaction from going out shopping
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  SPEAKER_00: and buying things and And pleasure from that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was really an emptiness and void in my life that I was trying to fill.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I know that goes to the whole,
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  SPEAKER_00: we need Jesus to fill the hole in our life and we need salvation.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it also goes further than that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because even still,
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  SPEAKER_00: when things are not going well,
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  SPEAKER_00: sometimes I want to escape shopping or certain things like that would be my go-to.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
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  SPEAKER_01: so now you're going to actually confess your sin that you've had a little problem
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  SPEAKER_01: in this too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mine would be food too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sweets.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I would run to sweets because they make me feel good.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hey, so wait a second.
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  SPEAKER_00: No, you wait a second.
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  SPEAKER_01: You started this.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there can be a lot of things that we look to satisfaction.
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  SPEAKER_01: And look to try to satisfy the, I like to say, the God-shaped gap in our life.
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  SPEAKER_01: We try to fill it up with all kinds of things.
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  SPEAKER_01: One of the cutest stories,
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  SPEAKER_01: one young boy was sharing his story of how that he'd come to follow Jesus
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  SPEAKER_01: and how he tried to fill the gap in his life,
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  SPEAKER_01: the emptiness in his life with ice cream.
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  SPEAKER_01: And he just told him that was his story.
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  SPEAKER_01: I loved ice cream so much more than anything, and now I love Jesus.
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  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's where your sweet addiction started from.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know I get that from my mom.
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  SPEAKER_00: So in this metaphor,
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  SPEAKER_00: we always talk about in each of these episodes kind of what is the core agenda of
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  SPEAKER_00: the well digger.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so the core agenda is I want to feel good when I want to, when I want to.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that's important.
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  SPEAKER_00: And in a way that eliminates all pain, if only for a moment.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now you hear that pain, eliminating pain, that's the self-medicating.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I look back at the loss of my injury and the loss of sports in my life,
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  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize it at the time, but I was self-medicating.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to cover up the pain and to feel good because I was,
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  SPEAKER_01: in many ways, I struggled with depression, loss.
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  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I looked to for my security was gone.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's what led me to smoking marijuana for a year and a half
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  SPEAKER_01: at least every single day regularly.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, interesting,
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  SPEAKER_00: because what started out as you just being really good and tenacious about sports,
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  SPEAKER_00: it wasn't seen as a negative.
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  SPEAKER_00: At that time, it was, you work hard, you're good at your craft, you're good at your sport.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so it wasn't until you lost it that the awareness came that this was an addiction.
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  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
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  SPEAKER_01: That is correct.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, sports is a gift from God, but it was my God.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there are many gifts that we have that we can view them in an unhealthy way.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just like money, money is not evil.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's the love of money.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so we tend to use people when we love money instead.
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  SPEAKER_01: Instead of love people and use money to help us in our relationship with people,
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  SPEAKER_01: we get it twisted.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to the thinking thing that you talked about.
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  SPEAKER_01: We fall into that stinking thinking.
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  SPEAKER_01: And this is how it all robs us of connection.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're using people, how in the heck can you connect with them?
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  SPEAKER_00: You can't.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
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  SPEAKER_00: They feel like it's transactional.
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  SPEAKER_00: They feel like you really don't care about them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: how many times have you been in a conversation with someone And they talk
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  SPEAKER_00: a little bit about how's the weather and then they jump right to something
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  SPEAKER_00: because they have something they want from you.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't that doesn't go very well for connecting.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the well digger wants to connect with you built around partying and fun.
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  SPEAKER_01: But you bring any truth into the mix about not living on purpose
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  SPEAKER_01: and how this stuff is self-medicating and you're not facing reality.
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  SPEAKER_01: You're living in denial already.
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  SPEAKER_01: So many of those things that you're hurting people and don't even know it
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  SPEAKER_01: because you care more about feeling good than you do about other people's feelings
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  SPEAKER_01: and what's going on in their life.
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  SPEAKER_01: You become selfish and self-centered and blind to the reality of the pain and
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  SPEAKER_01: the wake of the wounded that you've left behind because of you pursuing
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  SPEAKER_01: and chasing pleasure and your addiction and your self-medication.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I can hear in my mind someone saying that that is a well digger.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're just a killjoy.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And instead of looking at themselves,
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  SPEAKER_00: they want to turn it around on the other person,
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  SPEAKER_00: which again, robs us from connecting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I had a few people confront me about me basically checking out and smoking weed all
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  SPEAKER_01: the time, and I just basically denied it and was in denial that it was a problem.
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  SPEAKER_01: And like I said,
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  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't really aware that I was self-medicating,
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  SPEAKER_01: but looking back on it,
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  SPEAKER_01: once I've developed clarity and sober mind and right thinking and started looking
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  SPEAKER_01: to God to be the one to satisfy and to fill the emptiness in my life,
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  SPEAKER_01: I realized, wow, man, I was...
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  SPEAKER_01: I was basically medicating because the only way I could deal with my depression
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  SPEAKER_01: and I didn't want to face my reality,
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  SPEAKER_01: my shattered dreams,
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  SPEAKER_01: broken expectations,
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  SPEAKER_01: what I thought my life should look like, I didn't want to face that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So what I did was I basically self-medicated instead of facing it.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  SPEAKER_00: If you are someone who I'll just I'll just call out some things that I've seen.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you're maybe a gamer that you're gaming so much as taking time away from your family.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you are a shopaholic and it's it's robbing from your family's finances.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you are addicted to food and someone confronts you about one
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: of these things is your response.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: First, to deflect and say, you're a killjoy.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to have fun.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need time to myself.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I should be able to do whatever I want.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: If that's your first response,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: then the chances are you care more about fulfillment than you do about
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: the relationship and connecting.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that should be a red flag to say, I've got something to work on.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, emptiness is a big issue here.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a deep fear in the well digger is that I am empty.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I try to do is I try to fill that God-shaped void or well in my life
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: with other things because I don't want to feel empty.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to face my depression.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to face my emotional pain.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Insecurities and the emptiness I'm beginning to feel, I will try to fill it with other things.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about use of the deep fear is emptiness, the angry demand.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cooperate with my efforts to feel good and don't judge me.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of goes back to what I was just saying.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you're confronted by a loved one about this,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: what you really want is for them to cooperate with what you're doing.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, you're going to be defensive.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you're going to try to turn it around on them in some way.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, don't be such a killjoy, man.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be trying to rob me of my joy.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just having fun.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so you'll deflect and even turn it around on them and say
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: that they're judging you because they're trying to rob you
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: of you filling your influences.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's exactly right.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So again,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: opportunity for false connection,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: associating with superficial people who have no higher goal than enjoying life.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I lived that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: For that year and a half, it's crazy because that year and a half that I spent...
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Partying and smoking weed,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: that's all I looked for is those who were around me,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: would basically smoke weed with me and we'd raise hell together or sit around
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: and watch MTV all vegged out.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And in that particularly,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: the marijuana addiction basically robbed me of any impulse that Any drive or purpose
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: in my life and took away a lot of motivation.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess another thing we can ask ourselves is,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: am I hanging out with and surrounding myself with people who don't encourage me
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: and help me be a better version of myself?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: the whole idea of iron sharpens iron is people who will sharpen me in my purpose and
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: in my mission and will challenge me to live on mission,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: which means they will help me be accountable to God and in relationships and to look
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: to him more.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: To fulfill it rather than trying to medicate or look to other things to fill
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: the emptiness or the God-shaped gap or the empty well in my life
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: that they will push me to be who God created me to be.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if someone,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: if you surround yourself with people that are like you,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're all going to be patting each other on the back affirming,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: oh, yeah, your wife is a killjoy because she doesn't want you to do that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of saying, no, you need to be connecting with your wife.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Birds of a feather do fly together.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the greatest aids to my,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: what do you want to say,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: sobriety or health or moving towards clear thinking,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: manhood is what really was the key.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those childish things are people who would help me out.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Help support my emptiness campaign of having fun.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I broke away from those people.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I wish I had someone to teach,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: would have been there to teach me,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: to walk with me,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: to better reach them with the gospel and challenge their emptiness and
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: at least give them an opportunity to respond.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Though I did share with a lot of them that Jesus had changed my life.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not selling drugs, doing drugs.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm breaking away from that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a reality that I did communicate that and a lot of them didn't want
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: to have anything to do with me anymore.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because you weren't having fun anymore.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or not the fun.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was no longer joining in, you know, with having people cooperate with my efforts to feel good.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't cooperate with their efforts now because I'd said, no, that's empty.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you are empty.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I have now been filled with a deeper purpose and meaning.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I hear you saying,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: and this is kind of the way we want to live our life,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: is that when we make a change,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's I've just come to follow Jesus,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm following Jesus,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I've got some things I've become aware of that are urges and things
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: that are robbing me from a deeper relationship with God and others,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: and I need to make changes.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: In a perfect world,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: we are saying that You may not need to hang out with the same people all the time,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: but we want to reach back into those lives of those people to share with them.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But in an ideal world, we want to be in the world, but not of the world.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you need someone to walk back,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: particularly in those addictive patterns,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: you need someone to walk back with you into those people.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a very close friend that he and I got kind of cleaned together, but we didn't.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have the missional piece,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: though I had an impulse to share what Jesus had done in my life,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: but it was just kind of as I'm going, I'm sharing what Jesus has done.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have an impulse to say, man, I want to share and disciple.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: My friends, my old friend group, I just didn't have anybody teach me to do that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we didn't even know that kind of stuff back then.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really, we were just glad we were changed.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, there was an incredible impulse to share what Jesus had done in my life,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: but there was not an intentionality to disciple anyone.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't really been taught that.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So related urges are going to be impatience,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: insensitivity,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: indulgence, and greed, which all make complete sense when you think about this.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then God's strategy for helping us,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: exposing the damage in others that selfishness can cause.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that mean?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: that's why in those of you that know the recovery and the 12-step process,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: one of the first things you need to do is,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: of course, be aware that you've got a problem.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then some of the earlier steps are you've got to make amends
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: because you've basically left a wake of wounded people in your pursuit
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: of feeling good into filling your emptiness,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: you've wounded and hurt tons of people along the way.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so you need to make amends with them.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I love Zacchaeus' story so much,
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: because he had robbed from people as a tax collector and took that role to,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: and he had wounded a lot of people.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, those that I've wounded, I will pay back four times what I took from them.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So he's making restitution and he's making amends.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why reflecting on those that you have hurt and And making amends
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: with them and restitution are super important things in the process of healing
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: and recovery.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have one thought.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes when you think about a well digger,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: or at least for me,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would think typically these are people that are far from God
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe have never had an encounter with God.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that's not true.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you think of ways that maybe people are already in Christ?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're even in ministry, but they're still operating as a well digger?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I mean, our motives are mixed at best.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that a lot.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of people who go into ministries to fill the emptiness
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: of their life by receiving compliments and feeling good about helping others.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they try to fill the emptiness in their life by serving others.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we've seen that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a broken addiction and they cannot stop.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: They cannot stop trying to help others because then they would have to face their own emptiness.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a desire, a need to feel needed.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times in those situations,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: we've seen people just sell their family on the altar of ministry.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because they need to be needed by other people and that gives them significance.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so their families are just, their families are primarily the wake.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they, they,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: They end up Wounding their family because they've sacrificed them because
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: the empty feeling they've tried to reach others or do things with others to fill
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: the emptiness of their life rather than loving God,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: loving their family and seeing their ministry flow through their family life.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the message of connection is that you're forgiven.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So and then the new question is, how can I bless people instead of how can I be fulfilled?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a reality, given it shall be given, pressed down, shaken together, overflowing.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: So how we give it away is a key piece of this.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are moving to a place of blessing others, but it comes from us being filled.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's from an overflow of our lives.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: To love God is to love ourselves.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And once we have a healthy view of ourselves,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: a healthy love of ourselves,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: and knowing that we are loved by God and we are a new creation in Christ
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: and we have responsibilities as ambassadors,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: then that allows the life to overflow to others.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very much like on the airplane.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done teaching on this before where like when you get on the airplane,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: they talk about the oxygen mask.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do they tell you about your kids?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Put it on yourself first before you try to help your child.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to love ourselves.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when we love ourselves, that frees us up to love others.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way to best love ourselves is recognize that we are containers
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: that are made to be So if you're listening today and you recognize some
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: of this well-digging
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: In your own life, there is hope by all means.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've seen Guy change so much.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know him then when he was as much like that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously there's, you know, those things don't just go away overnight.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something we have to be patient with ourselves and realize that it's
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: a process of making amends.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: First, starting with being aware,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: making amends and moving toward recognizing that God has forgiven us.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that there is hope for change in our life.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you're no longer empty because when you have Christ, you have all that you need.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I am filled and therefore I am fulfilled in Christ.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that allows me to be a blessing to others because he has blessed me.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am blessed to be a blessing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no greater joy than aligning our lives with God and being used by him
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: and seeing his living water filling me and overflowing to others.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that is how well digger becomes not an empty well, but a full well.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: It will be a lot about what does it mean to be a white wall washer,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: but also if you're the polar opposite from a white wall washer,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: how do you collaborate,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: work together,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: and honor one another in our differences,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: always honoring one another in our differences,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's gifting, temperaments, things like that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that'll be next.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Very important.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're a risk assessor,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: The risk taker,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to irritate if you're a risk taker the same way,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: but we need to take risk, but we also need to assess them.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, those are just things, just that simple question askers versus tellers.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's just these differences in temperaments and even these urges
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: that help us really work together when we understand the big picture.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: We need each other.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So just a couple of things for you.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: We are, as we said,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: next week will be our last episode on whitewall washing and the series
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: on connecting.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that, we're excited.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to start a mini marriage series in February.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be four weeks.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a poll that I'll put in our show notes that we would love for you
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: to complete, especially the guys out there.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be sure that we have...
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you would complete that poll, that would be great.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, subscribe, write a review for our show.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It helps people find us.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're so grateful for those of you that have.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just always happy to be able to share our life with you.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: So until next time, we look forward to seeing you.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Blessings to you all.
• 31:11
  [music]