Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Dunn & Peter Ould about their choice of State of Decay (2/4)

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Talks to Paul Dunn & Peter Ould about their choice of State of Decay (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker
• 0:35
  quicker. Hello everyone, welcome back to
• 0:38
  a hamster with a blunt pen knife, The dot True Commentary
• 0:40
  podcast. My name's Paul and I'm home here
• 0:43
  this evening talking about State of Decay with our newbie
• 0:47
  resident, Mr. Peter Old of. Course.
• 0:51
  It's being presided over by the man of 1000 innuendos, the King
• 0:55
  of Smut himself, Mr. Joe Ford. I've never seen such a state of
• 1:00
  decay as on this call, do you know?
• 1:02
  Honest to God. Oh, I was going to say something
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  really awful. Then I've.
• 1:07
  I've managed to stop myself. My God.
• 1:10
  I'm sure there was just a comment about the grey hairs in
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  my beard. Not so, no.
• 1:15
  No, we. Were you watching the beards in
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  episode 1, All right? Because, I mean, I think, I
• 1:20
  think cameras might be real, you know?
• 1:22
  Really. Yeah.
• 1:24
  The old band. I swear.
• 1:25
  That's a real beard. It's the same.
• 1:27
  No, it's the same beard he's got in turn of her voids.
• 1:30
  No, it's not. Oh, she's got no beard in that.
• 1:33
  No beard. No, he has got a beard.
• 1:37
  I'm sorry, I I know that at the end we will vote on the best
• 1:40
  bid, but there is only one winner.
• 1:43
  You know what it is? We'll get there in in.
• 1:45
  The I think you're right. I couldn't agree more.
• 1:48
  It's that whoever's got that long carpet you won that is just
• 1:51
  fabulous. So it's so silky.
• 1:53
  I mean, did I have shampoo on this unnamed planet?
• 1:57
  I think clearly they've got they've got moose and wax.
• 2:00
  Oh, OK. Yes.
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  They found it in the spaceship, yeah.
• 2:04
  Found it in the spaceship or or they're like there's some.
• 2:07
  Do we ever have a name for this planet?
• 2:09
  No, it's never. Some, there's some strange
• 2:13
  mammal that you can squeeze and, and it's, it's milk is waxy and
• 2:17
  that's, that's, that's how you how you maintain your beard.
• 2:21
  Today, Oh, you were just making it up.
• 2:22
  Then I was like in the story, I don't understand.
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  Hey fanfiction Lucy. Nicole, get on it.
• 2:29
  OK, we. Need to know about the bats that
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  you milk on the unnamed vampire planet that gives you a lustrous
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  beard. How are we here already?
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  We've only just died. Episode 2.
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  Oh, sorry, Paul, please. We've derailed you immediately.
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  Please get us back on track. Yeah, so are we ready to go into
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  episode #2 then chaps? Oh yes, I'm ready.
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  Go on then. OK.
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  We're doing it in 321-GO. A true professional there, Paul.
• 3:02
  Thank you. It's you notice, did you notice
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  fellas, in episode 1, that wonderful sequence where we, we
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  see the faces of the three who rule on the screen as you know,
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  science officer or O'Connor and all of that.
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  So they they see that idea in episode 1, don't they, that the
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  they were young people on the planet once and.
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  With the lovely C facts titles, yeah.
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  Yeah. Well, and now this is where we
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  do what the law of continental shift, language developing over
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  time. That's all big.
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  That's a big, big thing, isn't? It that's another big you beat
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  me to it so that it's all the entropy stuff and so on.
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  It's just very, very clever. So hang on, let's let's just
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  play a very small game whilst we're going through the
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  cliffhanger again. So let's see now.
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  Paul Dunn, Paul Dunn, Paul Dunn Paul How would how would we
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  change that over time? Oh, we don't know.
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  Pull down, pull down. Pull down.
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  Porn death. Oh, no.
• 4:02
  Porn. Porn died.
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  Thank you. OK, Peter.
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  Old Peter. Old Peter.
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  Old. Come on.
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  Help me out, Peter. Well, well, Piotter.
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  Oh, Piotter. Ailed actually my name is.
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  So I, I had a friend when I would do my first degree in
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  Manchester, whose degree was linguistics and stuff like that.
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  And he did a, his dissertation on some obscure English names
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  and where they came from, but he asked me whether he could use
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  mine. So it turns out that the so old
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  through, through my father, who's English from, well, he
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  thinks he's from Yorkshire, the posh part of, of, of Leeds, but
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  he thinks he's from Yorkshire. And it is apparently a
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  corruption of Auld as an old Lanzar.
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  But the really interesting thing is there are two pockets of old
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  and 1 is in Yorkshire and 1 is in Cornwall.
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  And they both descended through like Celtic sort of stuff, the
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  name from old, but they are entirely separate.
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  They've both got very thick accents as well, but in very
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  different ways. This is this is the the
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  beautiful match shot again, which I think we, we, we kind of
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  missed as we were, as we were talking about continental.
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  It gives it a sense of scale, doesn't it though?
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  Like it's. Really good, yeah.
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  And, and I think they've gotten better as well because I watched
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  Andrews of Tara recently, which I I think is a stunning
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  production, but the way they use the glass shots to add the
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  turrets so that you can clearly see it's a different material,
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  whereas the matting there is it's flawless.
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  And it takes it out of the studio, right?
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  It's, it's the same as in, you know, season 25 Happiness
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  Patrol, the, the new special edition, which has the, the, the
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  stuff above the studio. It, it takes it out of, of the
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  studio. It, it makes you forget that
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  it's a studio set. And that's the same here.
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  You know, you've, you think this is like a proper castle.
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  Oh yeah, look how that spread. How lovely.
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  Now I've got a very. There is actually cheese here.
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  Oh, I can see some. Is that Bree there?
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  It looks like a Bree or or a cabinet there some.
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  Stilton in the middle there and. And just to show you how clever
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  this is in the writing, this is Bull's blood.
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  Right. Ah, yes.
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  Which is traditionally A Hungarian wine, but but a
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  Transylvanian wine. So clever.
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  Well, I've got a very important question for the two of you.
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  OK, to remind you this is still I have a sort of blood pen
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  knife. Lesbian vampirism.
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  Any thoughts, Paul? Because the way that Camilla
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  lusts after Romana in this scene, Yeah, I mean something
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  else. Definitely there, isn't it?
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  She's certainly given her the look.
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  She is. Look right now.
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  Yeah, I'm, I've never really been into that niche piece of
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  film, Joe. What lesbian vampirism.
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  Lesbian vampirism. But I yeah, I I but, but I I
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  know it is a thing. Look at that.
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  Now look, you've hurt yourself. Oh please, let me suck your
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  thumb. But there is a sexual, there's a
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  sexual aspect to this, right? There is a.
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  Sort of unusually, I think, yeah.
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  And, and and it is well played, right, despite the fact that it
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  is it is high camp, it is really well played this.
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  And look at, I mean, look at Rachel Davis now looking at
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  Ramana. She is ready to eat her up.
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  Yeah, yeah, in both senses. Yes, she goes, there are
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  compensations, and then she looks right and Ramana goes, oh
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  God, what's she saying? I don't want to upset the
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  Gentry. Now isn't I, I think the cutting
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  of of the fingers, the fairly late edition here into the
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  script and it is to make it clear that they're vampires,
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  right? Because if you haven't got by
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  now, that's the bit that's going to make you go They're vampires.
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  I mean, Jesus Christ, yes. I mean, I would hope you've got
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  it by now, but you know, like 4 year olds are watching this
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  literally, you know, like. Six, yeah.
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  Six years old. Yeah.
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  Rhoda Lewis. I did not know until I studied
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  for this. She founded the Hay on White
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  Literary Festival. Oh, Rhoda Lewis, thank you so
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  much for improving Hey on wise literary output it.
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  Wouldn't be hard, would it? Seriously.
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  And this is what I love about Doctor Who.
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  And This is why you probably have to have Toby hey Doke on
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  every single commentary because he can tell you all these
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  things, right? But it's like actually, this was
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  like, this was like Rep for a lot of these actors.
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  They, they were, they were jobbing actors and some of them
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  were actually very, very capable, very, very professional
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  people who got these jobs like like this and but actually went
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  off and did other things that were incredible.
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  But as well like, and I'm sure we've all Paul, you must have
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  done this when you've explored like shows from the 70s and the
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  80s. It is that poll of actors that
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  turn up in all these different shows, you know.
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  Oh yeah, yeah, they just go round and round.
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  It's like Calvin Thomas was the the Welsh actor at the BBC in
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  the 70s, wasn't he? He's always the Welshman in
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  everything. In absolutely everything.
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  There is coming up a few lines that are taken from some
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  classics of literature. And it's really clever, right?
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  So, so when, who is it? Who says whatever is, is?
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  Right, Right. That's Alexander Pope.
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  That's Alexander Pope's essays on on men in a minute.
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  When we go back to the phone room, we're going to talk about
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  the ship of state. That's Plato from the Republic.
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  Now, I think that's in there to remind us that this is a, a
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  fallen society, right? This has come from a great
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  height, a great philosophical height, and it's fallen.
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  And I just think that's so clever, really is.
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  I also think that's probably bid me right.
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  I think when it is dealing leaning into that entropy theme
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  and he's a smart, he's a literary bloke.
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  Bid me, he's well read. Yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, I mean, also as well, I've seen, I've seen a well, yeah,
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  his arrogance is remarkable, that's for sure.
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  But maybe, maybe naturally so, yeah, that scene there where
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  Orkon goes up to Adric and like I have seen, I have absolutely
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  seen people take a, a sort of a, a kinky reading of it.
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  Because he does play it Well, he does play it essentially.
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  At least the whole thing's. Camp.
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  But that the way he says like, you know, you're different.
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  You're not a simple peasant. It's one, it feels very like
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  here's an interesting way to introduce more about Adric and
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  how he stands out. But two, I have actually seen a
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  reading and I know we can over read these things of like a
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  sexuality reading on it as well. Oh.
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  Right, so there's a so there's a queer reading.
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  Possibly, yeah. I think if you, well, there's so
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  little representation in classic, oh, you know, you kind
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  of have to find it where you can.
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  Oh, this is great. The way he interrogates them and
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  gets all the answers that he needs from them and he's sort
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  of, he gets them angry, you know, and then they sort of lash
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  out with the answers. Hydrax.
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  Hydrax. Super scene, isn't it?
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  It's just. An all the movement going on in
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  it as well. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  He calls it a quadrille. Peter off it.
• 12:01
  They're basically doing a dance around each other, so there's
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  always the camera doesn't have to move because the people are
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  always moving. So he's a much better director
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  than people give him credit for. Actually this shows up.
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  At this point, I think I do think there's a point to a
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  dilemma where he's sort of given up.
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  Yeah, I like material. She has the best lines if you if
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  you wish to see us, there are guards outside.
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  Many guards. She's wonderful now.
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  This is beautiful. The way they just sit on the
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  chairs and have a chat. We don't do this enough, I don't
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  think. They don't.
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  And the whole dialogue and the way that Romana just defers to
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  the doctor, it's like a married couple, isn't it?
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  You get used to each each other and you you just let each other
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  be the person that that they are, warts and all.
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  And. Mostly loads.
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  She's she's usually the most competent of the two of them,
• 13:03
  but she lets him sort of behave. But that is definitely marriage,
• 13:07
  right? The woman letting the man think
• 13:09
  that he's in charge. Well, it certainly is in my
• 13:13
  relationship anyway. Mark very kindly lets me think
• 13:17
  that I'm making all the decisions and I very rarely do.
• 13:21
  Has that been your experience, Paul?
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  Yeah, usually you just do as you're told, don't you?
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  Really. Happy wife, happy life in my
• 13:30
  life. Hi, We didn't do the law of
• 13:32
  constantial assist on Joe Ford, Joe Ford, Joe Ford, Joe Ford,
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  Jeff for Jeff. Umbilical called.
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  Slot Yeah, it works, it works, it works.
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  And I think the names are just orcan O'Connor Camilla
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  Macmillan. It is it's.
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  So clever. It's so, so clever.
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  And that idea, I remember when I when I was younger, the idea
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  when it goes, this was the original ship.
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  We've obviously seen it as the tower and how that's gone into
• 14:01
  sort of the mythology of that planet as I just think that's so
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  clever, that fusion of science fiction and sort of gothic
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  mythology. Now at this point, they're not
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  shagging because they haven't touched once in this scene.
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  Right. And he doesn't.
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  He's not looking at her much. But they still play it really
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  well. Peter, Paul, I found the
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  inspection hatch. Oh, well done, Doctor.
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  That's a promise then, isn't it? Yeah.
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  Oh, here we go. We're down in the caves now.
• 14:42
  This is definitely terror sticks territory.
• 14:44
  Yeah. Now do you see that the the the
• 14:46
  patch on his right knee, that's from the tear in full circle.
• 14:51
  So that's a continuity bit. And then from yeah, I see.
• 14:55
  And then and this. Is first, right?
• 14:57
  This is first, so it's yeah, continuity, right.
• 15:00
  And then from from Warriors Gate onwards, there is no patch.
• 15:04
  So it's it looks as though Alzarian trousers are as good as
• 15:07
  Alzarians. Oh, OK.
• 15:09
  They repair themselves. They repair themselves.
• 15:11
  I can't see Reminder or the doctor.
• 15:13
  They're sewing them up for him, can you?
• 15:15
  He had to learn quick. I mean that that that his
• 15:20
  pyjamas must have been ranked, mustn't they?
• 15:21
  Because he just wore nothing else.
• 15:25
  There was a line in Divided Loyalties Paul written by Gary
• 15:28
  Russell where Tegan basically goes, oh he wears those smelly
• 15:32
  pyjamas all the time. I mean, people were so mean
• 15:35
  about Adric in the 90s, were they?
• 15:38
  I think the way Waterhouse has weathered that and now immersed
• 15:43
  himself in fandom respectfully, I think it's one it it says so
• 15:47
  much about his character. And he and he's never unkind
• 15:52
  about Lala Ward, which is not what you can say the other way
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  round isn't. It no Jesus Christ.
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  No, Alder is saying Adric is malleable, strong.
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  We can make of him what we wish. Oh.
• 16:05
  Please, I mean this, this sort of the four of them in this, in
• 16:08
  this the the direction is beautiful.
• 16:10
  I mean it is like more theatre than TV almost at this point.
• 16:14
  It is almost play for the day. Oh, the performances, Peter, are
• 16:17
  definitely theatre. But, but I mean, it lends itself
• 16:21
  to that, doesn't it? Absolutely, absolutely.
• 16:23
  And it's great. It's really, really good.
• 16:25
  Isn't there the great story about Emory Jones, who plays
• 16:28
  Orkon, where he was playing it like this in the rehearsal room?
• 16:31
  And I can't remember which actor it was when, you know, how is
• 16:35
  this going to work? And then they got into the sets
• 16:38
  and into the costumes, and it's just perfect.
• 16:41
  You know, it's like, Oh yeah, of course it is great.
• 16:47
  But it's so, it's so interesting because because they're
• 16:49
  vampires, they are physically predatory.
• 16:53
  You know, they want to suck your blood.
• 16:55
  And yet weirdly, they play it sensually as well.
• 16:59
  So you can put in. I have a reading if you want.
• 17:03
  Yeah, absolutely. But, but I think, I think it's
• 17:06
  meant to be both in some sense. It's meant to be both readings
• 17:09
  in terms of they are even even in the Bram Stoker and Nosferatu
• 17:15
  tradition. They are sensual, right.
• 17:17
  They are all the blood sucking one, but they are central
• 17:19
  because they're they've lost life.
• 17:22
  They're undead, but they want to recover some bits of life.
• 17:28
  Warm bloodedness as it almost that they knew.
• 17:32
  Yeah. So they so they want to be
• 17:34
  sensual creatures. But I don't want to have my neck
• 17:38
  sacks of blood while I'm having it off.
• 17:39
  I mean, good grief, who likes that sort of thing?
• 17:49
  I notice you're not saying much down there, Paul.
• 17:54
  The torture room behind you now. I can see the door.
• 17:57
  Yeah, I. Was going to ask, do we think
• 18:00
  this would have been more? Because obviously this must have
• 18:03
  been commissioned by Robert Holmes originally because it was
• 18:07
  going to be instead of Horror Fang Rock, wasn't it?
• 18:09
  Do we think it would have been this Gothic or more Gothic had
• 18:14
  it been made in that? Oh no, because look at horror
• 18:17
  Fang Rock. It's with atmosphere.
• 18:19
  None of the science would have been in it.
• 18:22
  No, that's right, because. I don't think this is overly
• 18:25
  gothic. You don't have like the the
• 18:28
  Gothic feel to it. And when you know that that it
• 18:32
  was originally written for three or Four Seasons previously, then
• 18:35
  you know, it kind of all makes sense, right.
• 18:37
  But I don't think this is overly Gothic, as I said before.
• 18:41
  I think it's this beautiful blend of the medieval Gothic and
• 18:44
  the sciencey sort of sort of stuff it were.
• 18:48
  Yeah, it works. I was going to say this had a
• 18:53
  sense, this has more of a sense of the Grand Guignol, you know,
• 18:56
  that sort of very Florida, but also very creepy about it.
• 19:04
  But you're right when you say it's theatre, I mean, this is
• 19:06
  theatre, right? Oh, yeah.
• 19:08
  More so than it is television at times.
• 19:11
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:11
  Like, like on on the stage, you direct people to move about a
• 19:15
  stage, you know, with with an audience in a fixed position.
• 19:19
  And that's exactly what Peter Moffett's doing it because he's
• 19:22
  not a big, he's not a massive editor of shots.
• 19:25
  He doesn't do pace that way, and he certainly doesn't move the
• 19:28
  camera much, but he does know how to move his actors.
• 19:31
  And boy, he knows how to cast as well.
• 19:34
  Beat him off here, yeah. Yeah.
• 19:36
  Who do you think is the most impressive guest performer in
• 19:39
  this? Oh, silence.
• 19:45
  Oh. I, I, I think it is Camilla.
• 19:51
  I think she's actually quite sinister just but.
• 19:55
  But The thing is, they're all, they're all singing from the
• 19:57
  same hymn books. They're all moving in the same
• 19:59
  way. So it's uniform, isn't it?
• 20:02
  Yeah, I think Camilla, it's possibly the stand out.
• 20:06
  I think that's an interesting call.
• 20:07
  Until you said that, I would have said Emmerin, right?
• 20:09
  I mean, you know, he plays it so well.
• 20:12
  It's definitely not any of the and in the village.
• 20:15
  The peasants. Not the peasants, isn't.
• 20:17
  It. No, it's no.
• 20:18
  I mean, I would never pick a peasant.
• 20:19
  Oh dear. But I was.
• 20:22
  I think you're right. I think, I think you're, you're,
• 20:25
  I think she plays it really well.
• 20:27
  Now is this or is this not a set designed for canine?
• 20:30
  Ohh, for sure, what with that enormous ramp in it.
• 20:34
  I live 20 minutes drive away, as it were, from Dover Castle,
• 20:38
  right? And then there's some other
• 20:39
  castles, warmer castle and things.
• 20:41
  We've got the old rich before here, right?
• 20:43
  None of them are ramps. None of them are ramps at all.
• 20:46
  This is a set designed for canine DO.
• 20:48
  You see the sort of blood rust effect on the walls as well.
• 20:52
  The colours are so gorgeous. Coming up shortly is Peter's
• 20:55
  guide to how you know when Lala and Tom are and aren't in bed,
• 21:02
  right? Watch them drop off.
• 21:04
  Watch them drop off here, right. Yeah.
• 21:09
  OK, Tom's down already. Did he help her off?
• 21:12
  No, he refused. No refused to help her off.
• 21:15
  Wait until they go down into the next one and watch what
• 21:19
  happened. At this point they're in
• 21:22
  separate beds, right? They're having one of their
• 21:25
  tiffs wait for when they go down a level further and see what
• 21:29
  happens and tell me whether you think at that point they're
• 21:32
  still in separate beds. That is a really grizzly shot.
• 21:36
  I mean, just the idea that they're in a room full of
• 21:39
  corpses, desiccated corpses that have had their blood drains
• 21:43
  pipes. Coming off from where the blood
• 21:44
  drains it's. In fact, it's quite.
• 21:46
  Yeah. You could really see the
• 21:48
  corpses, can't you? Yeah.
• 21:50
  Oh, she Laura actually objected to J&T about this, didn't she?
• 21:53
  She thought this was far too scary.
• 21:54
  I mean, this is this is, this is just super.
• 21:59
  And we are coming up to the original ending of Episode 2 as
• 22:02
  written. Oh, is it?
• 22:04
  It's not where he says it's blood.
• 22:05
  Yeah. That would have been a great
• 22:08
  cliffhanger and. At that point, here we go.
• 22:12
  Although don't you love the sting when you cut away from
• 22:17
  this bit? That would have been a wonderful
• 22:22
  cliffhanger. And that would be like, it's
• 22:24
  vampires, it's bloody vampires, have you not worked it out?
• 22:28
  It's MPIRE. The actual cliffhanger of him
• 22:31
  going welcome to mild domain. I mean, it's, it's fun, but the,
• 22:35
  the, the if it was a cliffhanger where they're surrounded by
• 22:38
  corpses and he realises. There you go.
• 22:43
  There you go. Tom and Lala are shagging.
• 22:46
  You've jumped on my tower. We go.
• 22:48
  Oh, that's atomism, isn't it? You put that in, Yeah.
• 22:52
  Yeah. So what's that then?
• 22:53
  The hanging from the sealer? Is that like the the rocket?
• 22:55
  Yeah, one of The Jets, that's the.
• 22:57
  Exhaust or. That's like an.
• 22:59
  Exhaust or a rocket thing? Yeah, exactly.
• 23:02
  That's so. So they're now underneath the
• 23:05
  Hydrax. So they were under running then?
• 23:08
  Yeah, they had they they needed extra time they need.
• 23:11
  Some extra extra time. They hadn't padded it enough and
• 23:14
  so I mean. Look at that.
• 23:16
  It's a tube that's feeding blood into a vampire.
• 23:19
  It's. So clever I I mean again, 6 year
• 23:22
  old me was so up for this. I'll bet.
• 23:27
  How old were you, Paul, when you first saw this?
• 23:30
  I would have been. I'd have been 6 as well.
• 23:32
  Oh. OK, perfect.
• 23:35
  Yeah, so. We never quite let it go.
• 23:38
  We're still here today. We are, but there you go.
• 23:42
  Dedication. Sadness.
• 23:45
  I don't think people ever really grow up.
• 23:46
  I think they just get older and handle it better.
• 23:49
  Yeah, I have a feeling, you know, that when you get to a
• 23:52
  certain age, the comfort of your childhood becomes something you
• 23:55
  really want to explore again. Yeah, you push it away in your
• 23:59
  20s, and then you hit your 40s and you're like, do you know
• 24:02
  what? That was such a lovely time.
• 24:04
  I want to feel that way again. And here.
• 24:05
  We go and here's the the vampire exposition which which would
• 24:07
  have actually in part three would have worked really well,
• 24:10
  right? They can only be killed by
• 24:13
  beheading or a stake through the heart and.
• 24:16
  It's the kind of thing where where you think this shouldn't
• 24:19
  work, like this is bringing in an entirely different mythos.
• 24:23
  Yeah, into Doctor Who. This shouldn't work, but it
• 24:26
  does. And this is because every time
• 24:28
  Terence Dix writes, have you noticed every time he writes,
• 24:32
  he's adding to the Doctor Who myth.
• 24:34
  What He's and he. He's also.
• 24:36
  Adding to Time Lord. Lord, yeah, He's done so much of
• 24:40
  it, hasn't he? So much of it.
• 24:41
  And obviously he's the one that gave Dave, Bob and Dave the
• 24:44
  ideas for the Three Doctors, and that's Omega.
• 24:47
  He brought in the Time Lords. I mean, he does the Five Doctors
• 24:50
  and all the Rasalon stuff. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's it's it's
• 24:54
  mostly all. That's why when he cherry picks
• 24:56
  it in his books, I don't mine because he set it all up.
• 24:59
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 25:01
  My domain. I mean, it's a great close up on
• 25:04
  his eyes to be fair. It's actually quite a good
• 25:07
  cliffhanger, but I mean, you're right, the other one would have
• 25:09
  been better. Though, well, the other one's
• 25:10
  just scarier, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:14
  OK. Isn't it just wonderful?
• 25:16
  Well fellas, our Paul Arthur asks, Are you ready for this?
• 25:21
  Go for it. Well, first of all, it says
• 25:23
  hello Peter. Hello Paul.
• 25:25
  Now you've already done one Paul.
• 25:26
  So unfortunately you just said hello Peter, but that's.
• 25:28
  All right, I don't care. Do you think State of Decay is a
• 25:31
  good fit for season 18 or would it have worked better in season
• 25:35
  15 it. Would have been a very different
• 25:38
  story in Season 15, right? It would have been, it would
• 25:44
  have been, it would have been more Gothic and I'm not sure
• 25:49
  that I, I, I think it could have been too gothic.
• 25:52
  And I think it's the blend of the sci-fi, the Christopher
• 25:56
  Bidmead story arc, which constrains the gothic and makes
• 26:02
  it work better. It is it is a gorge in this
• 26:05
  season. It is a gorgeous blend of
• 26:08
  Bidmead sci-fi and Hinchcliffe Gothic, and it is just
• 26:12
  absolutely perfect. Oh.
• 26:15
  Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think it had been a completely
• 26:18
  different thing in the previous seasons, but I think it works
• 26:22
  really well here. And that is thanks to the input
• 26:25
  of Chris and H Big Mead, who's who's managed to insert stuff
• 26:31
  that will go across the whole season.
• 26:33
  I mean, he was almost doing an art for a season, wasn't he?
• 26:36
  And he's inserted that in everywhere.
• 26:38
  So it gets more doom laden as it goes along.
• 26:41
  So I think that's absolutely perfect in the position it is
• 26:44
  because it gives a good contrast to what comes before it and what
• 26:47
  comes after it. I think actually horror fan rock
• 26:50
  is a good example of the tone of what this might have been had it
• 26:57
  been in season 15. That's where Terrance is at that
• 27:00
  point. It's the gothic horror of the
• 27:02
  hit of the Hinchcliffe years bleeding into the start of
• 27:06
  Williams. I think it you know, there are
• 27:08
  gags in horror fan rock, but it is very serious story.
• 27:14
  I think this this works because and it goes against something I
• 27:17
  said at the start of this school, Big Mead.
• 27:21
  There are jokes in a team, right, but there's especially
• 27:24
  going to be jokes when Terrence is right in season 18.
• 27:27
  He's never going to write PO faced scientific Doctor Who.
• 27:31
  You know, like I think David Fisher, who is very funny in his
• 27:36
  scripts in 16 and 17, delivers quite a serious story in 18.
• 27:41
  Let's show if it's pretty serious.
• 27:42
  There's jokes in it, but Terrance man, he goes for the
• 27:45
  entertainment jugular. So I I think it is the ultimate
• 27:49
  refreshment in 18. I think if you take State of
• 27:52
  Decay out of it, you've got there are different sorts of
• 27:56
  stories in terms of their execution, but they are kind of
• 28:01
  say me in terms of themes and tone and things like that.
• 28:05
  Whereas I think this sits there in the middle of the season,
• 28:07
  like I said, fusing together all three of the the the producers
• 28:11
  of Thomas Time. It does make you wonder, right?
• 28:14
  Whether a Douglas Adams script edited by Christopher.
• 28:19
  Bigley. Fuck that would be interesting.
• 28:22
  Yeah, would it have worked or not?
• 28:23
  Or. They are matter, The fights
• 28:26
  they. Ohh yeah.
• 28:27
  No, Douglas, where where are you going now?
• 28:30
  You know, Olympic going. Chris, stop trying to constrain
• 28:33
  me. You know, let my imagination
• 28:35
  fly.