Latest / The You Project / #1816 The Proliferation of Coaches - Pete Shepherd

Transcript

#1816 The Proliferation of Coaches - Pete Shepherd · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Peach Shepherd, welcome back to you project.
0:03
Speaker 2: Thank you Craig Harper for having me, Thank you Tiffany Cook,
0:05
Speaker 2: thank you everyone, Thank you all boys, thank you Linesman.
0:07
Speaker 1: Is that what we do? We thank everybody absolutely absolutely,
0:10
Speaker 1: and that's it. We're done over and now looking back
0:13
Speaker 1: Tomara with more of the same here on Melbourne's Hi
0:17
Speaker 1: tiff Hi, you guys were having the most interesting conversation
0:22
Speaker 1: before we actually press the go button. So can we
0:24
Speaker 1: just revisit that because Pea Shepherd is now in cyclone Central,
0:29
Speaker 1: living on in Queensland, I should say, in bris Vegas,
0:35
Speaker 1: and just repeat that little story you told us, the
0:38
Speaker 1: little bit of wisdom that your neighbor gave you, and
0:41
Speaker 1: then your subsequent ignorant reasons but understandable. Yeah.
0:47
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I'm a Victorian at heart. We've only
0:49
Speaker 2: lived in Brisbane for two years. And so I was
0:50
Speaker 2: outside putting the bins out and my next door aber
0:54
Speaker 2: said to me, so you all cyclone prepped for Alfred
0:57
Speaker 2: And I said, mate, like, you got to tell me
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Speaker 2: what that meant because I have no idea what I'm doing,
1:01
Speaker 2: Like it's the house safe as a secure And he said, oh,
1:04
Speaker 2: we chucked the bins out of the house, take everything
1:06
Speaker 2: that's in the backyard and put it inside. You don't
1:07
Speaker 2: want any projectile missiles flying around. I said that's fair
1:10
Speaker 2: enough and he said, oh, and also you probably want
1:12
Speaker 2: to fill up your bathtub full of water.
1:14
Speaker 1: I said why and he said, because you might not
1:16
Speaker 1: have drinking water for a few days. I'm so am I.
1:19
Speaker 2: Drinking out of the bath or like, what's going on?
1:23
Speaker 2: Apparently that's what we could be doing.
1:25
Speaker 1: Well, you may well be well and for people who
1:28
Speaker 1: are not in Australia. So we're recording this on Wednesday,
1:32
Speaker 1: the fifth of March, and it's due cyclone as a
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Speaker 1: George cyclone for it, sorry, Cyclone Alfred is due in
1:43
Speaker 1: Queensland tomorrow. Am I correct with that? Yeah? Tomorrow night apparently.
1:48
Speaker 1: And what's the state of mind of people? It's everyone
1:52
Speaker 1: pretty cool and organized or people run around with their
1:55
Speaker 1: undies on their head. What's going on?
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Speaker 2: It feels a little bit like the latter it Actually,
2:00
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is just because it's how
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Speaker 2: I've felt because I'm again an ignorant Victorian.
2:04
Speaker 1: It's not experienced this before.
2:06
Speaker 2: But the closest thing I've compared it to is like
2:09
Speaker 2: the start of COVID twenty twenty in March, right, everyone's
2:14
Speaker 2: like there's a press conference every six hours. We don't
2:17
Speaker 2: know what's going on, but you probably just want to
2:19
Speaker 2: go get some supplies, don't know why. So there's nothing
2:22
Speaker 2: in the supermarket shells, you know, people are stocking up
2:25
Speaker 2: on toilet paper.
2:26
Speaker 1: For like just god knows why.
2:28
Speaker 2: And then it's sort of eerie when you look outside
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Speaker 2: people are mowing the lawns and like packing everything away,
2:35
Speaker 2: and I don't know, that's the closest thing I've found
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Speaker 2: it to be. So it feels a bit like the
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Speaker 2: ONI's on the head in your example.
2:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, obviously, the most famous
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Speaker 1: cyclone story in Australian history that we know of anyway
2:51
Speaker 1: in the last one hundred or two hundred years is
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Speaker 1: Cyclone Tracy Darwin was at nineteen seventy four. You're both
2:57
Speaker 1: too young to remember, but Tiff, could you just google
3:00
Speaker 1: that for me? Cyclone Tracy was at nineteen seventy four.
3:03
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that absolutely pretty much destroyed Darwin. So
3:08
Speaker 1: let's hope there's nothing like a repeat of that. But
3:12
Speaker 1: compared to like about quarter of our listeners, which I
3:15
Speaker 1: didn't really know till the other day. On the EU Project,
3:18
Speaker 1: about quart of our listeners are from the States, right,
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Speaker 1: and they're not unfamiliar with cyclones and tornadoes and bloody hurricanes.
3:26
Speaker 1: And what was.
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Speaker 3: It ye nineteen seventy four, twenty first of December?
3:32
Speaker 1: How many people died in that? I think there was
3:35
Speaker 1: not the swow Wow, that's a significant natural disaster. So
3:42
Speaker 1: let's hope you don't get any of that.
3:44
Speaker 2: Pete was not too I actually speaking of I spoke
3:48
Speaker 2: to a colleague of mine who's American this morning, and
3:52
Speaker 2: the thing I learned in our conversation was, I think
3:54
Speaker 2: this is true. She was talking about a hurricane, and
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Speaker 2: I was saying, what's the difference between a hurricane and
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Speaker 2: a cyclone? And I'm pretty sure the difference is one's
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Speaker 2: North American, that's the hurricane. One's the Southern hemisphere, which
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Speaker 2: is a cyclone. Sorry, one's in the northern hemisphere. Ones
4:08
Speaker 2: the Southern hemisphere. They're actually the same thing.
4:10
Speaker 1: Well, TIF will TIF will get into bloody check that.
4:13
Speaker 1: Let's factor Jerry, Google or maybe Lai or chat chatters.
4:18
Speaker 1: So new boyfriend, what is yeah? Well, how have you
4:23
Speaker 1: been anyway? While while our personal assistant is finding that out.
4:27
Speaker 1: How I'm good. It's been I guess a few months
4:29
Speaker 1: since we caught up. It's a new year.
4:31
Speaker 2: I've just got back from a couple of weeks in
4:33
Speaker 2: Japan to reset with the family, which was amazing. Got
4:35
Speaker 2: to have some time off and now kind of get
4:38
Speaker 2: back into work and get back into trying to, you know,
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Speaker 2: help people in whatever way I can through the lens
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Speaker 2: of sort of leadership development. So all is well, pending
4:47
Speaker 2: the you know, the upcoming cyclone that we've already talked about.
4:52
Speaker 1: Perfect how you traveled? Yeah, I'm all right. I'm allegedly
4:56
Speaker 1: on the home straight of my PhD, which is I'm
4:59
Speaker 1: sick of talking about it. I'm sure my fucking listeners are.
5:02
Speaker 1: How long is the home straight? How long is the
5:04
Speaker 1: home straight? Well? I might get this wrong by a
5:07
Speaker 1: day or two, but I think my everything's got to
5:11
Speaker 1: be done, dusted, handed in by July seventeen, which means
5:15
Speaker 1: it's actually got to be like my PhD ends on
5:18
Speaker 1: July seventeen, So I'm currently So I've got a sorry
5:25
Speaker 1: to bore you everyone. So I did one, two, I
5:29
Speaker 1: did three. I ran three quite big studies and of
5:32
Speaker 1: those three studies. I'm writing two maybe three empirical papers.
5:37
Speaker 1: I'm also writing a thing called a systematic literature review,
5:40
Speaker 1: which is much bigger than an empirical paper. Typically like
5:44
Speaker 1: to start to finish writing a systematic doing all the
5:46
Speaker 1: research for a systematic review, then writing it, and that
5:50
Speaker 1: today is about a fourteen month journey. And then I'm
5:54
Speaker 1: also writing my thesis, which is basically for people who
5:58
Speaker 1: are wondering what the fuck is a thesis, it's almost
6:00
Speaker 1: like the story of your PhD journey. So this is
6:05
Speaker 1: what we looked at, and this is what we did
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Speaker 1: and why we didn't, how we did it, this is
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Speaker 1: what we discovered, and this is why the world needs
6:11
Speaker 1: this research. And this with a whole in the science
6:13
Speaker 1: and the research, and this is what I did to
6:16
Speaker 1: part fill that hole. And this is what we discovered,
6:19
Speaker 1: and this is what it means scientifically but also practically.
6:23
Speaker 1: So I've submitted one empirical paper which I'm waiting to
6:28
Speaker 1: so I need to have had at least one paper
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Speaker 1: published as in so you can either do it by thesis,
6:37
Speaker 1: whereas you just basically write about an eighty thousand word
6:41
Speaker 1: essentially a book, but that those eighty thousand words have
6:44
Speaker 1: got to be absolutely fucking perfect, like not one comma,
6:51
Speaker 1: not one nothing like, everything's got to be perfect. That well,
6:59
Speaker 1: the part I've chosen, which is not easier, it's just different,
7:03
Speaker 1: is by publications. So you need to have your work,
7:07
Speaker 1: your papers published by academic journals. I'll be submitting three,
7:14
Speaker 1: maybe four, it depends on how I go over the
7:16
Speaker 1: next few months. I've submitted one. I'll have my litle
7:21
Speaker 1: review first draft finished by the end of this week,
7:24
Speaker 1: and then I've got to write one maybe two more.
7:26
Speaker 1: But because I've got all that, you know, I've done
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Speaker 1: all my research, I've got all the data. I've done
7:32
Speaker 1: all my what's called academic milestones where you go and
7:34
Speaker 1: stand before the board and justify your you know, your
7:38
Speaker 1: research and please don't kick me out. So I've done
7:40
Speaker 1: all that. So when you say so, it's just up
7:44
Speaker 1: to writing shit. Now, people go, oh, well, that'll be
7:46
Speaker 1: easy because you're a writer. It's like, nah, it's not
7:49
Speaker 1: the same, and can I I've told this once before,
7:52
Speaker 1: but I don't think i've told you so. You you
7:55
Speaker 1: speak professionally, You're great, I've seen you your world class
7:58
Speaker 1: I speak professionally. I'll let everyone else be the judge
8:02
Speaker 1: of whether or not I'm any good. But I can
8:03
Speaker 1: certainly say that talking to a thousand people, I'm not nervous.
8:06
Speaker 1: For me, it's fun. Same for you, I tell you,
8:11
Speaker 1: standing in front of a board of four professors or
8:14
Speaker 1: essentially they're fucking judges right standing in front and talking
8:20
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes, right, So you've got to talk for
8:23
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, which for me, I'm not even warmed up
8:25
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes, right, and then you get grilled for
8:28
Speaker 1: the balance of the hour, which is forty minutes on
8:31
Speaker 1: your research, design, methodology outcomes, why you didn't do this,
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Speaker 1: why you did that. That is for me, the hardest
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Speaker 1: speaking gig or those four things I've ever had in
8:44
Speaker 1: my life. And can I tell you, I'm shit at it.
8:49
Speaker 1: I'm so not in my natural habitat because you know how,
8:53
Speaker 1: when you go somewhere you've got a fair level of
8:55
Speaker 1: confidence and maybe they even know who you are. There,
8:59
Speaker 1: may be a little bit excited to hear you talk, right,
9:02
Speaker 1: they're like, oh this is that guy? Fuck yeah, you know,
9:04
Speaker 1: or better still, if it's public event, they've paid to
9:07
Speaker 1: see you, right, so they want to be there. Well,
9:10
Speaker 1: in front of these people and completely understandably you're just
9:15
Speaker 1: a number. You're like three, five, one, seven two at
9:18
Speaker 1: Monash or whatever you are. So anyway, anyway, it's like
9:23
Speaker 1: I'm either going to be really sad or happy in
9:25
Speaker 1: about four or five months. If were you looking up
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Speaker 1: something for us.
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Speaker 3: Yes, a hurricane occurs in the North Atlantic Ocean, the
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Speaker 3: Northeast Pacific Ocean, and the South Pacific Ocean, and a
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Speaker 3: cyclone occurs in the South Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean,
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Speaker 3: and they are essentially the same thing.
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Speaker 1: That to me seems dumb. It's like it's the same Wow,
9:48
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, yeah, do you know what else?
9:52
Speaker 1: We'll actually have a proper podcast in a minute, everyone,
9:54
Speaker 1: we'll actually talk about something that Pete's here for. Do
9:57
Speaker 1: you know what I learned last night that I didn't
9:59
Speaker 1: know the Isle of Man? Either of you two know
10:03
Speaker 1: anything about the Isle of Man. So the Isle of
10:07
Speaker 1: Man is it's its own, independently governed territory. I might
10:13
Speaker 1: fuck a bit of this up. So it's independent of
10:16
Speaker 1: Ireland and Scotland and England. It's in the middle of
10:20
Speaker 1: the Irish Sea and it is roughly equidistant from all
10:24
Speaker 1: three of those nations, right, So it's I think it's
10:28
Speaker 1: like thirty odd k's from England and forty and fifty
10:33
Speaker 1: from Ireland and Scotland give or tape. But it's vaguely
10:35
Speaker 1: in the middle of those three. It's self governing, has
10:39
Speaker 1: its own parliament, has its own like fucking jail. It's
10:44
Speaker 1: and only eighty eight thousand people live there, and it's
10:47
Speaker 1: it's not a country though, but it's a self governing something. Yes,
10:53
Speaker 1: so interesting. I watched this and I thought, there's a
10:55
Speaker 1: place in the world. I know pretty much fucking nothing
10:58
Speaker 1: about it. There's plenty of to our listeners in the
11:00
Speaker 1: Isle of Man. But you know what I do. I'm like,
11:03
Speaker 1: this is what I do. So I watch you shout
11:05
Speaker 1: out to Brian, shout out to Brian from the Isle
11:09
Speaker 1: of Man. But I watched something like that. Then I go, fuck,
11:12
Speaker 1: I want to live there. I wonder how much a
11:13
Speaker 1: house is, and then I go real estate Island Man.
11:17
Speaker 1: Then I go down this rabbit hole and I'm like, yeah,
11:20
Speaker 1: they have their own currency, they're not part of the EU.
11:24
Speaker 1: So interesting. And you think Australia is relatively small, It's like, wow,
11:29
Speaker 1: we're a fucking metropolis compared to their anyway. So that's
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Speaker 1: what I'm going for Christmas. What's the most remote place, Well,
11:39
Speaker 1: both of you have been to in the world, as
11:41
Speaker 1: in just a not a big place. That is a
11:46
Speaker 1: good quest. I think maybe.
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Speaker 2: I mean, Cuba is pretty big in terms of there's
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Speaker 2: a lot of people that live there, but it's remote
11:52
Speaker 2: in the sense that it's very difficult to actually go
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Speaker 2: to and visit because of historical government relations. I've been
11:59
Speaker 2: to Cuba, so maybe Cuba. Yeah, but there's too plenty
12:02
Speaker 2: of people. Yeah, Yeah, it's very interesting. It's basically nine
12:07
Speaker 2: and sixty, isn't it. It's basically your Yeah, it's like
12:10
Speaker 2: you're traveling to nine a sixty. I remember, I'll never
12:14
Speaker 2: forget staying in this. You stay in people's houses and
12:17
Speaker 2: they just have lound rooms and stuff set up with
12:19
Speaker 2: beds and and I remember being in like the lound
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Speaker 2: room and they were making us, I don't know, a
12:26
Speaker 2: coffee or something, and the owner of the house came
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Speaker 2: home with a piece of like raw meat in his hand.
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Speaker 2: Oh he just that he just ran down to the
12:36
Speaker 2: local person and bought from And they didn't have a bag,
12:39
Speaker 2: they didn't have a cooling system. They this has had
12:42
Speaker 2: a piece of meating's hand and they started cooking it
12:43
Speaker 2: up like that was that was the means of transporting
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Speaker 2: this piece of meat.
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Speaker 1: Wow, a piece of meat holding a piece of meat
12:50
Speaker 1: and did you did that subsequently become your dinner? Well
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Speaker 1: I ended up having the vegetarian onward because I was
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Speaker 1: a bit scared.
13:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was fascinating. No Internet, like it's sue
13:03
Speaker 2: was super remote. Yeah, it was like being in the sixties.
13:05
Speaker 2: Not that I was there to comment.
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Speaker 1: But I felt like and also sorry tip before we
13:09
Speaker 1: go to you. But but also they don't they don't
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Speaker 1: bring new things in, like they don't import cars into
13:15
Speaker 1: Cuba or am I correct?
13:17
Speaker 2: Everyone's driving around in these old muscle cars. Yeah it's crazy. Yeah, horses,
13:23
Speaker 2: it's it's bizarre. But it was such a Yeah, it
13:25
Speaker 2: was a cool experience.
13:27
Speaker 3: Tiff for me would have to be the Himalayas. I
13:30
Speaker 3: guess a few days we were up in Negar, which
13:33
Speaker 3: is you're part of the Himalays, where there were just
13:36
Speaker 3: there's nobody except for the odd horse whilla transporting horses
13:40
Speaker 3: or cows across the and that was amazing.
13:44
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, wow, you help there you go. Like, I
13:49
Speaker 1: went to a really small island which is part of
13:52
Speaker 1: Anawatu called a Spiritu Santo, which I think I've spoken about,
13:57
Speaker 1: and I don't know. The total population is two hundred.
14:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what it is, but
14:05
Speaker 1: it was when I went, it was like the airport
14:08
Speaker 1: was basically a shed and you have to get a
14:12
Speaker 1: small This is literally what happened. So Port Vila is
14:16
Speaker 1: the capital unless I'm fucking this up of Vanuatu, and
14:22
Speaker 1: I had to get It was for a wedding. I
14:24
Speaker 1: had to get. I was going to a wedding on a
14:25
Speaker 1: spiritual santo and I had to get a light plane there.
14:30
Speaker 1: Now this was in my bodybuilding days and I wasn't
14:33
Speaker 1: in Christine condition. Let's say that tiff I was off
14:38
Speaker 1: season fat. I was off season fat, which is a
14:45
Speaker 1: euphemism for I was just fat, right anyway, But you
14:49
Speaker 1: can't say that anymore, even if it's about yourself. Anyway,
14:54
Speaker 1: I was fat as fuck. Let's just go with that now.
14:57
Speaker 1: I had been fatter though anyway. So here's the fucking
15:01
Speaker 1: terrifying thing. Before you get on the plane, they have
15:04
Speaker 1: to weigh you. So it was an eight person plane.
15:08
Speaker 1: They have to weigh all the luggage, they have to
15:10
Speaker 1: weigh all the people. And I get on and this
15:12
Speaker 1: little Vanawatuan man who was just beautiful and weighed as
15:16
Speaker 1: much as my fucking breakfast. I get on the scales
15:19
Speaker 1: and he goes, you're too fat. You're too fat. That's
15:26
Speaker 1: he said to me. You're too like literally, you're too fat.
15:30
Speaker 1: I'm like, pardon, and he goes, you're too fat, like
15:34
Speaker 1: quite emphatically, no pun intended. So I'm like, well, dude,
15:40
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know what to tell you. I can't
15:44
Speaker 1: be less fat instantly. I'll take that under advisement and
15:48
Speaker 1: do something moving forward. But right now I weigh one
15:52
Speaker 1: hundred and twelve killers. Now to give that some context,
15:56
Speaker 1: today I weigh eighty four or five. So yeah, back
16:00
Speaker 1: in therapy for fat arts. But yeah, that's brilliant. Come
16:05
Speaker 1: back tomorrow. You're too fat today? Yeah, okay, now worry
16:07
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, no. We basically he literally worked for words,
16:10
Speaker 1: said you're too fat to get on the plane. Went,
16:13
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we need to. I need to
16:15
Speaker 1: take out some of my fucking hand cream out of
16:17
Speaker 1: the my moisturizer kid or something. I don't know, take
16:22
Speaker 1: out the cakes I've stored in my bag. Anyway, that
16:28
Speaker 1: was my that was my the beginning of my trip
16:32
Speaker 1: to literally one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.
16:35
Speaker 1: But yeah, talk about yeah no they did. I just say, yeah, no, yeah, nothing, no,
16:41
Speaker 1: no technology. Yeah it was it was like stepping back
16:46
Speaker 1: five hundred years. But it was beautiful. But anyway, so mate,
16:50
Speaker 1: what I wanted to chat to you about today, Surprisingly
16:52
Speaker 1: not cyclones or tornadoes or hurricanes or remote locations, although
16:59
Speaker 1: all of that was interesting. I've had a phone. How
17:02
Speaker 1: much of your work is one on one coaching?
17:09
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've got a percentage on it,
17:11
Speaker 2: but I try to cap at at about ten at
17:14
Speaker 2: any one time, So I tend not to have more
17:16
Speaker 2: than ten one on ones at any one time because
17:18
Speaker 2: that enables me to then also be able to group
17:20
Speaker 2: workshops and speaking and sort of longest longer programs.
17:25
Speaker 1: But even those longer programs now.
17:26
Speaker 2: I'm saying that are complimented by one on one coaching.
17:29
Speaker 2: So I guess if you looked at it from an
17:32
Speaker 2: hour's perspective, it'd be something like twenty five to thirty percent, right,
17:37
Speaker 2: So it used to be more like eighty or ninety.
17:39
Speaker 1: Now it's more like twenty five thirty. Yeah, I want
17:41
Speaker 1: to talk today about coaching and get a little bit
17:43
Speaker 1: of clarity. Like all of us do coaching in some
17:47
Speaker 1: shape or form. I know Tip coaches, people like coach,
17:50
Speaker 1: some people not too much anymore, just because my life
17:53
Speaker 1: doesn't really allow it. But I still did. It's pieces,
17:57
Speaker 1: and you do quite a bit of it. So could
17:59
Speaker 1: you do you just explain to people because I think
18:02
Speaker 1: there's a lot of vagueness totally, or perhaps the lack
18:06
Speaker 1: of clarity might be a better term around what coaching
18:12
Speaker 1: is now. I know it's not one thing, it's many things,
18:14
Speaker 1: But can you explain to us what it's meant to be? Anyway?
18:19
Speaker 2: I'll do my best because I've I think I've evolved
18:23
Speaker 2: in my own processing of what this means and experimenting
18:29
Speaker 2: with what this means from where I was perhaps when
18:31
Speaker 2: we first started chatting about this, probably years ago now
18:34
Speaker 2: to now. I think I think of coaching as a posture.
18:37
Speaker 2: I think of coaching as almost almost a philosophy, whereby
18:41
Speaker 2: you have in your mind this idea that the person
18:46
Speaker 2: you're speaking with probably has the solution, The idea the
18:49
Speaker 2: insight the answer to the challenge that they might be facing,
18:53
Speaker 2: and your role as the coach is to try and
18:55
Speaker 2: help them realize that, to try and help them get
18:57
Speaker 2: unstuck from wherever they may be stuck in. Now what
19:01
Speaker 2: I've come to evolve into spending a lot more time
19:04
Speaker 2: on because of the nature of the conversations I enjoy
19:06
Speaker 2: and because of the nature of my experience and my
19:09
Speaker 2: area of expertise. I guess you could call it that is,
19:12
Speaker 2: because there's so many different flavors of coaching, is I've
19:14
Speaker 2: tended to focus a lot more on this idea of
19:16
Speaker 2: like a leadership or executive coaching, which is ultimately helping
19:20
Speaker 2: leaders within organizations or executives within organizations that might have
19:24
Speaker 2: very specific challenges like I have to have this difficult
19:26
Speaker 2: conversation with the subordinate and I don't know how to
19:29
Speaker 2: have it. Can we talk about what I might do
19:31
Speaker 2: to navigate that. How am I managing my own emotions?
19:33
Speaker 2: How am I managing their emotions? How do I navigate
19:36
Speaker 2: that context? So I think broadly speaking, it's about sort
19:39
Speaker 2: of helping people get out of their own way by
19:41
Speaker 2: asking questions and by holding space and by taking on
19:44
Speaker 2: this posture of like you probably already have the answer,
19:47
Speaker 2: I just need to help you realize that. And then
19:49
Speaker 2: I've narrowed it into the context of being a leader
19:51
Speaker 2: in an organization, especially that's where I tend to spend
19:54
Speaker 2: most of my time. Now not always the case, but
19:56
Speaker 2: that's where I spend my time. Now, what do you
19:58
Speaker 2: two think?
19:58
Speaker 1: You agree? Do you disagree? Yeah, that's interesting. I love
20:03
Speaker 1: all of that. I tip interrupt whenever you want. What
20:07
Speaker 1: do you think? And I know it varies, right, And
20:09
Speaker 1: by the way, everyone you probably not going to get
20:12
Speaker 1: a convergent consensus. You're probably not going to get a
20:16
Speaker 1: single definition or philosophy. But just because there is a
20:20
Speaker 1: proliferation of coaching courses and accreditations and fucking and some
20:26
Speaker 1: of my look at you know, and I just think,
20:29
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't think I'm the high watermark
20:31
Speaker 1: by any means. And i just go, old mates done
20:35
Speaker 1: a three day coaching course. I'm like, brilliant, well if
20:38
Speaker 1: and I go, I don't know, maybe it's amazing, maybe
20:41
Speaker 1: it's not. I just think the bars too so low,
20:45
Speaker 1: and it's a it's not even an industry because it's
20:48
Speaker 1: so different and there's no regulation like there's no anyone
20:53
Speaker 1: can call themselves a life coach. Anyone go, I'm a
20:56
Speaker 1: life coach? Cool? What is that? Even it's not really
21:01
Speaker 1: a recognized thing in an academic sense, which is not
21:03
Speaker 1: to say there are not brilliant coaches. There are. In fact,
21:07
Speaker 1: I think some of the best coaches have next this
21:11
Speaker 1: will get me in trouble sometimes no actual accreditation or
21:17
Speaker 1: academic you know, that's me. Yeah, I mean yeah, not that.
21:21
Speaker 2: Not that I'm one of the best, but like that's
21:23
Speaker 2: I am one of those people that I don't have a
21:25
Speaker 2: formal Bachelor of coaching. And people don't really like this,
21:30
Speaker 2: but it depends, you know. It's like you could literally,
21:33
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we all know someone who's got
21:35
Speaker 2: a psych degree, and psych degree is not good or bad.
21:38
Speaker 2: And some people with a psych degree you can sit
21:40
Speaker 2: down with them and it's brilliant and they're amazing. And
21:44
Speaker 2: that may or may not be because of their psychic
21:46
Speaker 2: degree or their sociology degree, or their masters or their
21:49
Speaker 2: PhD or their whatever it is maybe related or you know,
21:53
Speaker 2: like one of the smartest people that I know in
21:55
Speaker 2: the world is my dad's best friend, who's my surrogate dad,
21:58
Speaker 2: Gil he finished school at year eight, and he is
22:01
Speaker 2: profoundly fucking.
22:03
Speaker 1: More intelligent than me and wiser than me. I'm a
22:07
Speaker 1: dumb ass compared to him. Right, So, and he's been
22:10
Speaker 1: coaching people without calling it coaching his whole lot, because
22:15
Speaker 1: he's a brilliant leader, a brilliant teacher. There was just
22:18
Speaker 1: no label, Like when he grew up, that wasn't a thing. Yeah,
22:24
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? TIFFs? Like you coach people? What's
22:27
Speaker 1: your philosophy?
22:29
Speaker 2: Yeah?
22:29
Speaker 3: I guess that's why I moved away from the term
22:32
Speaker 3: coach and called myself the mind pt like and when
22:36
Speaker 3: I do my coaching with groups, I introduced myself as
22:40
Speaker 3: the facilitator of the thing we're doing, you know, life,
22:43
Speaker 3: because I think everyone has a different idea of what
22:47
Speaker 3: coaching is. The book that I've just written a chapter
22:51
Speaker 3: in is a collaboration between twenty four other coaches that
22:57
Speaker 3: are talking about their concept of where they've gone beyond
23:01
Speaker 3: the traditional model of coaching and how they do things differently,
23:04
Speaker 3: which is really cool. I can't wait to read all
23:07
Speaker 3: the other aspects of that.
23:09
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, do either of you think that coaching
23:14
Speaker 1: has a brain and the image problem?
23:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, yeah, definitely, And I agree with Tiff
23:22
Speaker 2: that I've in certain contexts, I don't even like using
23:26
Speaker 2: that word to describe what I'm doing. I think facilitator,
23:28
Speaker 2: for sure, is a great word to describe, especially if
23:30
Speaker 2: it's a group. You know, you could call it a
23:32
Speaker 2: group coaching session, or we could call it I'm facilitating
23:34
Speaker 2: you through this workshop, and it's sort of the same
23:37
Speaker 2: posture in a way, but it comes with a lot
23:39
Speaker 2: less baggage and image problems. I tend to agree with that.
23:42
Speaker 1: It is a little bit cringey. You know what else
23:44
Speaker 1: is cringey? This is hilarious the two things that I do.
23:48
Speaker 1: What else is cringe is personal trainer. I mean, like
23:52
Speaker 1: and shout out to all the personal trainers. I love
23:54
Speaker 1: personal trainers, and I grew up in the personal training space.
23:58
Speaker 1: But it's not you know that that's not necessarily held
24:02
Speaker 1: in super high regard, is it.
24:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting that some support that there's like certain
24:12
Speaker 2: associations with status that we make weaving the broader population
24:16
Speaker 2: when we hear these terms, And I think a lot
24:18
Speaker 2: of it's based on our own experience or based on
24:19
Speaker 2: the fact that we know this person we went to
24:21
Speaker 2: high school with who's now decided they're a coach and
24:23
Speaker 2: because they do their to our course, like you mentioned,
24:25
Speaker 2: and you're maybe a little skeptical about whether that's actually
24:28
Speaker 2: possible and legitimate. And so I think you're right that
24:32
Speaker 2: there is an image problem. And it doesn't mean there
24:35
Speaker 2: aren't awesome coaches out there, because I think you two
24:37
Speaker 2: are clearly awesome coaches. I think I'm doing an okay
24:40
Speaker 2: job based on the you know, thousands of people I've
24:42
Speaker 2: coached at this point.
24:43
Speaker 1: But that's not to say.
24:44
Speaker 2: There aren't people out there that are a little more
24:47
Speaker 2: a little more shaky in terms of their credentials.
24:51
Speaker 1: I actually go on to.
24:53
Speaker 3: The tough thing with personal training. I mean, no, I
24:55
Speaker 3: did my qualifications years ago. But you're in a tough
24:58
Speaker 3: spot as a personal training because you go and do
25:00
Speaker 3: these courses and half of them are shit. You leave
25:03
Speaker 3: the course, you don't know how to train, how to
25:06
Speaker 3: train anyone. The way that you've gone to learn. What
25:09
Speaker 3: you've learned is how to not get sued and how
25:11
Speaker 3: to not let people die in your under your care.
25:14
Speaker 3: Then you have to go out and start your learning
25:16
Speaker 3: whilst saying I'm now personal trainer, and that's the beginning
25:20
Speaker 3: of putting yourself in imposter syndrome and being a bullshit artist,
25:23
Speaker 3: and then eventually, after years, you slide into I know
25:27
Speaker 3: what I'm.
25:27
Speaker 1: Doing now that's fascinating. Yeah.
25:29
Speaker 2: I think this is where I got so lucky, a
25:32
Speaker 2: bit like your dad's friend Craig, where I was working
25:35
Speaker 2: in a corporate as a like account manager and senior
25:38
Speaker 2: account manager, helping leaders in organizations solve challenges through this
25:43
Speaker 2: series of consulting and programs that we had at this
25:45
Speaker 2: company I.
25:45
Speaker 1: Was working for.
25:46
Speaker 2: And then I ended up doing this online workshop which
25:49
Speaker 2: we've talked about before, Seth Godin's Altaba, and that was
25:52
Speaker 2: where I first interacted with a coach and what I
25:53
Speaker 2: started to uncover and I was asked to join the
25:55
Speaker 2: team as a coach, And when I started to realize
25:57
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is I think this is what
25:59
Speaker 2: I've been doing for the last eight years, but people
26:01
Speaker 2: just call it coaching. In other context, it's asking questions
26:04
Speaker 2: to help people solve challenges. And I was like, oh,
26:07
Speaker 2: you can call this coaching. So I think I got
26:09
Speaker 2: super lucky in that I'd been flexing that muscle and
26:11
Speaker 2: doing that thing for so long without realizing it. So
26:14
Speaker 2: when it came to time for when someone said to me,
26:16
Speaker 2: can you coach me? I was like, oh, I think
26:19
Speaker 2: I know what that means, and A I think I
26:21
Speaker 2: can do it because I've done it for so long
26:22
Speaker 2: without realizing that's what I was doing, which is very
26:25
Speaker 2: different to what you described to it with the PC.
26:27
Speaker 1: That's fascinating.
26:28
Speaker 3: I was lucky because I started in a boxing gym,
26:32
Speaker 3: so I was training people to box, so I could
26:34
Speaker 3: go and learn the other stuff before taking those clients.
26:37
Speaker 3: I think I would have hated the proces because I
26:39
Speaker 3: knew boxing back to front, so I was confident in that,
26:42
Speaker 3: and if people wanted a bodybuilding program, I would just
26:45
Speaker 3: move them on.
26:50
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think coaching is just a newish
26:55
Speaker 1: term for something that's been done forever anyway. We just
26:58
Speaker 1: call it different stuff, right, and we somehow went, oh,
27:02
Speaker 1: this is new, and it's like wow. It's like when
27:05
Speaker 1: trainers go to me, they wheel out some weird name
27:09
Speaker 1: for something. They're like, oh, what do you think of?
27:11
Speaker 1: A I don't know some name I've never heard of,
27:14
Speaker 1: and I go what the fuck is that? And then
27:17
Speaker 1: I go, oh, show me what it is, and then
27:20
Speaker 1: they do this thing I go, oh, well, that's called
27:24
Speaker 1: x YZ. Or It's like, what the one thing that
27:28
Speaker 1: hasn't changed in the last thirty forty years since I
27:31
Speaker 1: started is anatomy and physiology. Right, It's like we've still
27:35
Speaker 1: got all the same muscles and all the same joints, ligaments, tendons, bones.
27:39
Speaker 1: You know, extension is still extension, Flexion is still flextion,
27:43
Speaker 1: internal external rotation, abduction abduction. If you know where your
27:48
Speaker 1: muscles originate and insert and crossover, what joints, and you
27:51
Speaker 1: understand planes of movement, then you know you can look
27:56
Speaker 1: at any movement and know exactly what muscles are working
27:59
Speaker 1: because you know, right, and there are some things that
28:02
Speaker 1: just don't change. And so too when we look at
28:05
Speaker 1: whether it's psychology or coaching or mentoring or teaching or leadership.
28:10
Speaker 1: You know, the same principles that kind of applied when
28:13
Speaker 1: the Stoics were talking about similar stuff two and a
28:15
Speaker 1: half thousand years ago about self regulation and self management
28:20
Speaker 1: and leadership and understanding the mind and human potential and
28:25
Speaker 1: self awareness. You know, nothing's really like the principles are
28:29
Speaker 1: the same. We just give it a different fucking badge
28:32
Speaker 1: and go, hey, we invented something. No you didn't at all.
28:37
Speaker 1: It's the same, totally agree.
28:39
Speaker 2: One of my favorite stories is one of those old
28:41
Speaker 2: stoic stories that my brother and I often joke about,
28:43
Speaker 2: is I think it was Socrates, but maybe I'm getting
28:47
Speaker 2: the stoic wrong, But it was someone who ended up
28:50
Speaker 2: hiring an individual to be their humility servant, and basically
28:54
Speaker 2: this person's responsibility was to remind them that they're not
28:58
Speaker 2: as awesome as they think they are, to keep them grounded.
29:01
Speaker 2: And it's like, basically, even thousands of years ago, this
29:05
Speaker 2: idea of being humble and having humility was seen as
29:08
Speaker 2: virtuous and it was a really hard thing to do,
29:11
Speaker 2: especially when you're in power and you look around organizations now.
29:14
Speaker 2: I mean, I talk to leaders all the time about
29:16
Speaker 2: how humility is a superpower, not a weakness, and so
29:20
Speaker 2: what does it look like to remind yourself of that
29:22
Speaker 2: and adopt this posture when you're talking to other people.
29:24
Speaker 2: You don't have to puff your chest out and pretend
29:26
Speaker 2: like you're the most important person in the room and
29:28
Speaker 2: have all the answers.
29:29
Speaker 1: Actually there's merit in doing the opposite. But that's not
29:31
Speaker 1: a new idea.
29:32
Speaker 2: That goes back to Socrates in his humility servant, Like,
29:34
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous.
29:36
Speaker 1: We have humility servants. Now are people who provide that service.
29:40
Speaker 1: They're called commenters. They might be slightly different. I think
29:44
Speaker 1: that's trolls, isn't it. Listeners shout out, yeah, no, I
29:51
Speaker 1: mean most of our listeners are very no truth, Tolly,
29:54
Speaker 1: most of our listeners are very positive. Like the amount
29:56
Speaker 1: of hate we get this non invitation, it's minimal as well,
30:02
Speaker 1: I think because none of us pretend we're awesome, you know,
30:05
Speaker 1: like I think that people love just healthy conversations with
30:10
Speaker 1: people who kind of maybe are good at a few things,
30:13
Speaker 1: not so good at other things, and you know, just
30:16
Speaker 1: trying to help people do the same which is learn
30:18
Speaker 1: and grow and evolve, and you know, we're all doing
30:21
Speaker 1: the same thing at the same time, I think, you know,
30:23
Speaker 1: slightly differently. But so one of the things I'm interested
30:28
Speaker 1: about with you Pete especially, and then TIF if you
30:30
Speaker 1: want to jump into is obviously every person that you
30:36
Speaker 1: have is different, so mentally, emotionally, physiologically, sociologically, practically, background,
30:42
Speaker 1: different brain, different experiences, and so we know that a
30:45
Speaker 1: four step coaching plan doesn't work because for obvious reasons.
30:51
Speaker 1: So do you have a set starting point. Do you
30:54
Speaker 1: have a set protocol? I feel like you're probably going
30:57
Speaker 1: to say no. But is how much is ductured and
31:00
Speaker 1: planned and how much of it is freestyle intuitive and
31:04
Speaker 1: let's just see what happens.
31:06
Speaker 2: I think I would say ninety something percent of it
31:09
Speaker 2: is fluid. And that's for a couple of reasons. One is, sorry,
31:14
Speaker 2: you should go back. There is structure in terms of
31:16
Speaker 2: the way the conversations usually happen, in terms of like
31:19
Speaker 2: it's sixty minutes it's every two weeks, for example, or
31:22
Speaker 2: it's ninety minutes and it's once a month. There is
31:25
Speaker 2: structure in how we agree to run the series of
31:28
Speaker 2: coaching sessions that we're going to have, and then within
31:30
Speaker 2: that structure, I have deliberately create total freedom for a
31:34
Speaker 2: tow of two reasons.
31:36
Speaker 1: One is, I think it's foolish to think that.
31:40
Speaker 2: There's a twelve step program for all individuals as it
31:42
Speaker 2: relates to coaching. As you mentioned, were a four step program.
31:46
Speaker 2: And I think that a really important part of great
31:49
Speaker 2: coaching is to meet people where they're at, and that
31:53
Speaker 2: requires adaptability and fluidity because you don't know where they're
31:56
Speaker 2: at until they start speaking, and so there might be
31:59
Speaker 2: a common question that I ask at the start, like
32:01
Speaker 2: what's on your mind right now, what's the current challenge
32:03
Speaker 2: that you have. Let's work with that, and then from
32:05
Speaker 2: there it goes in whatever direction it goes in.
32:08
Speaker 3: So I.
32:10
Speaker 2: Adopt fluidity because I think it serves them and selfishly
32:16
Speaker 2: harps and tears and listeners. I enjoy the fluidity more
32:19
Speaker 2: and I actually think I'm better at that that I
32:21
Speaker 2: would get so bored of myself if I was constantly
32:24
Speaker 2: following the exact same process. As part of the reason
32:26
Speaker 2: I didn't operate very well in a corporate environment because
32:29
Speaker 2: I was required or assumed to take on certain scripts
32:34
Speaker 2: and certain behaviors in a certain way all day every day.
32:38
Speaker 2: I need the fluidity for my own intellectual curiosity. And
32:43
Speaker 2: you know, I was going to use the word arousalor,
32:45
Speaker 2: but you know, intellectual arousal or. I find it more
32:47
Speaker 2: interesting if I don't know what's going to happen. Yes,
32:50
Speaker 2: what everyone is like that, I get that, But for me,
32:52
Speaker 2: that's I love the fluidity because it energizes me.
32:56
Speaker 1: What do you do to increase the chances of that
33:02
Speaker 1: one or one and a half hour interaction, that one
33:06
Speaker 1: one and a half hours of literally theory being operationalized.
33:13
Speaker 1: After the fact, you mean, yeah, so okay, you're coaching me.
33:17
Speaker 1: We chat for an hour and a half, I'm seeing
33:19
Speaker 1: you in a month, and I go, that was great,
33:21
Speaker 1: Pete bye. Yeah, And then four weeks later you're like,
33:25
Speaker 1: how'd you go? I go, what you know? I haven't
33:28
Speaker 1: fucking done anything? Let me talk Yeah, yeah, like, well,
33:32
Speaker 1: one of my challenges. I know I can talk underwater.
33:35
Speaker 1: That's not the issue. I know I can share thoughts
33:37
Speaker 1: and ideas and strategies and information. That's not hard for me.
33:41
Speaker 1: What's not hard. But what I'm more interested in is
33:45
Speaker 1: how the fuck do I help or improve the chances
33:49
Speaker 1: of this person literally taking action and keep taking action
33:55
Speaker 1: in between our sessions.
33:57
Speaker 2: Love this question. So the consistent thing I do, I
34:00
Speaker 2: guess this is part of the X percent that's somewhere
34:03
Speaker 2: under ten that is similar in each session is I
34:06
Speaker 2: will ask them to make a commitment at the end
34:08
Speaker 2: of the session. So, based on everything we just spoke about, Harps,
34:11
Speaker 2: what's the one thing you're going to do between now
34:12
Speaker 2: and an next session? Take as long as you want
34:14
Speaker 2: to sit there and think about it for four minutes.
34:15
Speaker 2: If you have to I don't care. I'm going to
34:17
Speaker 2: sit here until you answer that question. And then depending
34:19
Speaker 2: on who it is, because some of my clients are
34:22
Speaker 2: like they'll do it by tomorrow they're really operationally active,
34:25
Speaker 2: and others I know I'll need to send them in
34:27
Speaker 2: a reminder in two weeks time or in a week's
34:29
Speaker 2: time just to go, how are you going with that
34:30
Speaker 2: commitment that you made, and they might go, oh shit,
34:32
Speaker 2: I didn't do anything. Thanks for the reminder. Let me
34:33
Speaker 2: go and put this into action. Certainly not full proof,
34:36
Speaker 2: as still times where I get to have conversations with
34:38
Speaker 2: people and they go, oh god, I completely forgot to
34:40
Speaker 2: do that thing that I committed to doing. But I
34:43
Speaker 2: think there's more merit in them putting themselves on the
34:47
Speaker 2: hook than in me saying this is what you now
34:50
Speaker 2: have to go and do. That's at least what I've
34:52
Speaker 2: found to work better is like, you need to put
34:54
Speaker 2: yourself on the hook. And that's going to feel uncomfortable.
34:56
Speaker 2: I'll hold you a cook to account, but you've got
34:58
Speaker 2: to put yourself on the hook. What's the commitment you're
34:59
Speaker 2: going to make?
35:00
Speaker 1: Wow? I love that. I love that. I don't know
35:05
Speaker 1: if this is a good idea or a bad idea,
35:07
Speaker 1: but workshop it. After all, this, let's workshop it. So
35:11
Speaker 1: I'm doing a I'm doing a group on Monday nights.
35:15
Speaker 1: I call it a private group. There's seven people, so
35:17
Speaker 1: not so private, but it's a private mentor in group
35:20
Speaker 1: that's relatively expensive. It's ten weeks and what are we Wednesday?
35:25
Speaker 1: So two nights ago we did communication, connection and understanding others.
35:30
Speaker 1: So every week there's a theme. Anyway, So we did
35:34
Speaker 1: all the stuff, and you know, like the actual sessions,
35:38
Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, are good. I get
35:40
Speaker 1: good feedback. There's a fair bit of interaction. There's a
35:43
Speaker 1: lot of note taking, there's a lot of head nodding.
35:46
Speaker 1: They can ask a question at any time, you know, obviously,
35:50
Speaker 1: wait for a gap in the proceedings, put up your
35:53
Speaker 1: little electronic hand, and as soon as possible, which is
35:56
Speaker 1: usually within a minute, I'll say, Pete, wa'ts your question?
36:00
Speaker 1: What do you want to know? Or But I've started
36:04
Speaker 1: saying to people, look, here's what happens. Most times when
36:08
Speaker 1: I do something, or when sessions like this happen. Statistically,
36:12
Speaker 1: most people will do fuck all between this session and
36:16
Speaker 1: the next. I mean, really make decisions, take action, be
36:21
Speaker 1: proactive and productive, roll up their sleeves, get uncomfortable, like
36:25
Speaker 1: every day for the next seven days. Like, the chances
36:29
Speaker 1: of you guys all doing that are zero zero. The
36:33
Speaker 1: chances of half of you doing that are probably three
36:36
Speaker 1: percent or five percent. And I go, I'm not saying
36:40
Speaker 1: that to be negative or to dissuade you. I want
36:43
Speaker 1: you to prove me wrong. I cannot emphasize enough how
36:48
Speaker 1: much these sessions and the value in the ten weeks,
36:53
Speaker 1: ironically is not about the ten sessions. Yeah, it's about
36:58
Speaker 1: the in between. I know, and you know. You can
37:01
Speaker 1: turn up. Both of you can turn up and do
37:03
Speaker 1: your thing, Like can you stand and be articulate and
37:06
Speaker 1: funny and tell a good story and be a bit inspirational.
37:10
Speaker 1: Of course you can. But you get to a point
37:12
Speaker 1: where I don't even care about that. I don't care
37:16
Speaker 1: about that because that's without being arrogant, that's somewhat like,
37:20
Speaker 1: that's just an that's expected. You just got to do that.
37:23
Speaker 1: That's your fucking job. That's you know, that's that's the base.
37:27
Speaker 1: But then on top of that, you know, what's what's
37:30
Speaker 1: the next layer. I absolutely agree with this so much.
37:33
Speaker 2: I think about this more than I think about how
37:37
Speaker 2: do I come up, how do I have everyone think
37:39
Speaker 2: that I'm a really smart person. At the end of
37:40
Speaker 2: the session, I think more about how do I get
37:43
Speaker 2: out of the way and create the conditions for them
37:46
Speaker 2: to actually do something. And so I will, like very
37:50
Speaker 2: tactically do things like if it's virtual use breakout rooms,
37:54
Speaker 2: where I go, what's one thing you're going to do
37:57
Speaker 2: based on everything we've talked about today between now and
37:59
Speaker 2: the session, go into a breakout with two other people,
38:02
Speaker 2: share it with them, write your names down, and now
38:05
Speaker 2: you three are an accountability group and you've got to
38:07
Speaker 2: keep each other accountable between now in the next session,
38:09
Speaker 2: because I can't be the person holding your hand. And
38:11
Speaker 2: I think more and more in the value that I
38:14
Speaker 2: try and provide leaders and teams and people that are
38:17
Speaker 2: taking part in the sessions that I run is I
38:20
Speaker 2: don't actually want you to go that thing I just
38:23
Speaker 2: heard from Pete was so freaking helpful. I want them
38:26
Speaker 2: to go that conversation I had with that person that
38:28
Speaker 2: was also there that was freaking brilliant. And so I'm
38:30
Speaker 2: seeing my role more and more as like creating the
38:33
Speaker 2: conditions for those conversations as opposed to being this like
38:36
Speaker 2: one voice that has to impart wisdom.
38:39
Speaker 3: And.
38:41
Speaker 2: I don't know, I find that more effective at least
38:45
Speaker 2: to create the conditions for actual change to happen. Doesn't
38:47
Speaker 2: always happen, but I think it's more effective than you know,
38:50
Speaker 2: go on to the days a little bit where we
38:51
Speaker 2: sit there and listen to the lecturer who's got the
38:54
Speaker 2: information that none of us have, because we all have
38:56
Speaker 2: all the information all the time at our fingertips.
38:58
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, yeah, And it's almost like the I did
39:03
Speaker 1: the Peach Shepherd or the tiff cook course and it
39:05
Speaker 1: didn't work. What, yeah, I did it. It didn't work.
39:10
Speaker 1: What do you mean it didn't work? Like? Did you
39:12
Speaker 1: do the work? Like? Did you like all the stuff
39:15
Speaker 1: that was spoken about and all the head nodding and
39:17
Speaker 1: all the note taking by you and all the like.
39:20
Speaker 1: And it's like, at some stage we all need to
39:24
Speaker 1: go us three included. So I've told people a million
39:28
Speaker 1: times I'm not the answer to anything. I'm just a
39:30
Speaker 1: guy pointing to the answer, and which is you. Generally
39:34
Speaker 1: the answer is going to you. I'm a tool, and
39:37
Speaker 1: many people will agree I'm a tool. I'm a resource,
39:41
Speaker 1: I'm a conduit to something. But you know, it's like, Hey,
39:45
Speaker 1: I can't be disciplined for you. I can't get out
39:48
Speaker 1: of bed for you. I can't have a good attitude
39:49
Speaker 1: for you. I can't make decisions for you. I can't
39:52
Speaker 1: work hard for you. I can't be brave for you.
39:55
Speaker 1: I can't be resilient for you. And all of those
39:57
Speaker 1: things are what needs happen and I can't do any
40:02
Speaker 1: of that. Only you can do that.
40:04
Speaker 2: And I think it's actually more generous for you to
40:06
Speaker 2: say that and acknowledge that with them to go. My
40:08
Speaker 2: role is to open the door and turn on the light.
40:11
Speaker 2: You need to be the one that walks into that
40:12
Speaker 2: room and do whatever you need to do in that room.
40:14
Speaker 2: I'll try and open the door and turn the light,
40:16
Speaker 2: and then it's on you. It's totally on you, And
40:19
Speaker 2: that's generous.
40:20
Speaker 1: What's your advice for people either, t if I'm going
40:23
Speaker 1: to start with you, So people that want to be
40:25
Speaker 1: coached and they go, I'm I'm going to go to
40:29
Speaker 1: a coach, how do they get the best out of that? Like,
40:34
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for them to get the
40:37
Speaker 1: most value from And whether or not it's about nutrition
40:41
Speaker 1: or fitness or business or life or overcoming an addiction
40:45
Speaker 1: or self regulation. How do we as clients who are
40:50
Speaker 1: going to see work with someone and by the way,
40:52
Speaker 1: that someone could be a dietitian or a physio or
40:55
Speaker 1: an exercise scientist, store a life coach, it doesn't matter.
40:58
Speaker 1: But how do we as clients get the most value?
41:04
Speaker 3: Be honest, be curious, and be brave enough to go
41:11
Speaker 3: deeper than you thought you were going in to go.
41:15
Speaker 3: Because when I think about people that don't make change,
41:18
Speaker 3: I think there's as much power or maybe more in
41:22
Speaker 3: just helping them self discover the process of why am
41:26
Speaker 3: I not making change? So I don't care if you
41:29
Speaker 3: change at the end of this program that you said
41:31
Speaker 3: you wanted to come in and change this. But if
41:34
Speaker 3: I can loosen the lid on why you think you
41:37
Speaker 3: want to change it and why you're not, and if
41:40
Speaker 3: you walk away at least scratching your head and going
41:42
Speaker 3: on there's something in that, then one day you might
41:46
Speaker 3: be closer to changing.
41:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
41:49
Speaker 2: Nice's good answer. Yeah, I agree with everything Tiff said.
41:53
Speaker 2: I wrote down Attitude is a skill. So I think
41:56
Speaker 2: about the thing that I want you to have is
41:58
Speaker 2: an attitude that is can juici of to learning and growth.
42:03
Speaker 2: And self discovery and a willingness to figure out what
42:05
Speaker 2: your blind spots might be or where you might be
42:07
Speaker 2: getting in your own way. And so in my mind,
42:10
Speaker 2: that requires a certain attitude. The good thing I think,
42:14
Speaker 2: at least in my experience with enough sort of filters,
42:18
Speaker 2: is it's pretty rare to get to a point where
42:22
Speaker 2: you're talking to a coach and you decide you're actually
42:25
Speaker 2: interested in being coached. Like usually people opt in that
42:28
Speaker 2: are relatively attuned to doing this kind of having these
42:31
Speaker 2: kinds of conversations not always the case, especially if you're
42:34
Speaker 2: working with a corporate and like someone's recommended you have
42:36
Speaker 2: a conversation with this person, they're a bit like why
42:38
Speaker 2: am I here?
42:39
Speaker 1: My manager told me to be here. So I think
42:41
Speaker 1: it comes down to attitude. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well,
42:46
Speaker 1: you can talk. Yeah, Look, I just think that we
42:51
Speaker 1: really need to be like Tiff said, you've got to
42:54
Speaker 1: be You've got to be honest and a bit vulnerable
42:56
Speaker 1: and go, look, some of the shit that I need
42:58
Speaker 1: to do I won't want to do. And people or
43:01
Speaker 1: tiar four Craig might say something that I find really
43:05
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and I'm not talking about anything inappropriate I'm just
43:09
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, like, if I'm being brutally honest,
43:13
Speaker 1: most of the big problems that I've had were mostly me.
43:17
Speaker 1: You know. There have been other variables and other people
43:19
Speaker 1: that weren't always awesome. But if I'm being honest, mostly me, Like,
43:24
Speaker 1: mostly I have gotten in my own way. And I
43:28
Speaker 1: think something I've spoken about quite a bit lately is
43:36
Speaker 1: this stupid need that we humans seem to have to
43:39
Speaker 1: be right about things. It's like, oh, fuck, how many
43:45
Speaker 1: times have I gotten something wrong? Oh? Just probably a million.
43:49
Speaker 1: So even some of the things that I now think
43:51
Speaker 1: i'm right about, I know a percentage of that I'm
43:55
Speaker 1: probably going to be wrong about almost definitely, And that's okay.
43:59
Speaker 1: And this willingness to go into the metaphoric room where
44:05
Speaker 1: you're the white belt, not the black belt, where you're
44:07
Speaker 1: the dumbest, where you're the worst, where you're the least skill,
44:10
Speaker 1: where you're the least capable and competent. Go into that
44:14
Speaker 1: room and don't run out to fucking go in there
44:18
Speaker 1: and learn and grow and pay attention.
44:21
Speaker 3: You know.
44:22
Speaker 1: That's like most things that I'm now good at, And
44:26
Speaker 1: I say that with an asterisk. I was not good
44:30
Speaker 1: at when I began.
44:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like as we get older, we
44:34
Speaker 2: put ourselves in those situations less and less and less
44:36
Speaker 2: and less and less.
44:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it it feels like it goes back to the
44:41
Speaker 2: humility servant, right, It's like having the humility to go,
44:46
Speaker 2: I don't know everything and that's okay. In fact, that's
44:49
Speaker 2: a good thing, because I totally agree with the Harps
44:52
Speaker 2: that like, there is this weird desire for people to
44:55
Speaker 2: be right, but they're not just to be right, but
44:57
Speaker 2: to remind everyone of like, oh, I predicted this.
44:59
Speaker 1: Twelve months ago. This is exactly what I've said would happen.
45:02
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, yeah, yeah, and that's that whole
45:06
Speaker 1: kind of I did. It seems to be a bit
45:08
Speaker 1: of overlap and reoccurring theme here at typ But I
45:11
Speaker 1: did an episode a few days ago which I think
45:14
Speaker 1: you would like this concept, Pete. It was called the
45:17
Speaker 1: fence Hitter, And I'm actually an advocate for sitting on
45:21
Speaker 1: the fence, right, because it's all sometimes it's seen as
45:25
Speaker 1: you know, weakness or ignorance or whereas I think, well,
45:28
Speaker 1: let's maybe reframe that if I'm sitting on the literal
45:31
Speaker 1: fence or the metaphoric fence. I can see what you
45:35
Speaker 1: guys who are on either side of the fence can't
45:37
Speaker 1: see because I've got a different vantage point. You've got
45:40
Speaker 1: a Yeah, I've got maybe a level of awareness and
45:43
Speaker 1: insight and a perspective that is valuable up here right
45:47
Speaker 1: this whole kind of societal and cultural kind of I
45:53
Speaker 1: don't know, collective mindset of you have to pick a side.
45:57
Speaker 1: I'm like, how about this, how about don't tell me
45:59
Speaker 1: what I have to do. How about I just figure
46:03
Speaker 1: out and look that I don't want to be in
46:06
Speaker 1: either of those camps. I just want to be able
46:08
Speaker 1: to think for me. And there'll be some things that
46:11
Speaker 1: I agree with Group A, something's group B, some things
46:14
Speaker 1: Group C. But I don't actually want to identify necessarily
46:19
Speaker 1: with some echo chamber of behavior or thought or culture
46:23
Speaker 1: or religion or whatever it is or philosophy. I just
46:27
Speaker 1: I want to think for myself. And if Pete and
46:30
Speaker 1: Tiff and I all happen to agree on a thing,
46:34
Speaker 1: that's a coincidence. It's not a plan. Yeah, Like we're
46:37
Speaker 1: not all hanging out because we all have exactly the
46:40
Speaker 1: same And if you and I and Tiff all thought
46:43
Speaker 1: the same on everything, I'd be extremely fucking scared, and
46:47
Speaker 1: I I'll be like, wow, there's something wrong, right. I
46:52
Speaker 1: love that idea. Fan sitting is a good thing, I think.
46:55
Speaker 1: I think it gives you the last thing that I
46:58
Speaker 1: wanted to chat about to you. TIF and I did
47:01
Speaker 1: a podcast yesterday where we spoke briefly about, among other things,
47:07
Speaker 1: setting goals and stuff, you know, old school goal setting
47:09
Speaker 1: one o one. But you know, when I talk to
47:12
Speaker 1: people on a really fundamental level, we talk about the
47:15
Speaker 1: thing that you want, then we talk about why you
47:17
Speaker 1: want it, and then we talk about how you're going
47:19
Speaker 1: to get it, and then we talk vaguely about when
47:21
Speaker 1: you're going to get it. So you know, what do
47:24
Speaker 1: you want, why do you want it, how are you
47:27
Speaker 1: going to create it, what's your plan, what's your strategy,
47:28
Speaker 1: watch your protocol, and then you know, watch your timeline,
47:31
Speaker 1: give or tape. And it feels like with a lot
47:33
Speaker 1: of people, I want you to speak to this if
47:35
Speaker 1: you can. When you do a deep dive on what
47:38
Speaker 1: people want and then why they want it, sometimes they
47:41
Speaker 1: actually go oh, because it's the thing that they initially want,
47:46
Speaker 1: which they think will open the door to the thing
47:49
Speaker 1: they really want, which is the why, the reason, the motivator,
47:52
Speaker 1: the driver. So like I might go, I want to
47:56
Speaker 1: earn five hundred grand a year, and the reason being
48:00
Speaker 1: it's going to make my life better, me better, I'll
48:02
Speaker 1: be much happier, I'll have all this flexibility, I'll be
48:05
Speaker 1: able to do all these things. And then the bottom
48:06
Speaker 1: and then when you filter down through that, it's cause
48:09
Speaker 1: I'll be happier, I'll be calmer, and I'll be and
48:13
Speaker 1: then but when you do a deep dive, you're like, well,
48:15
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that will equal that, or maybe that won't
48:18
Speaker 1: equal that. So talk to me about that. Do people
48:22
Speaker 1: ever with you come in with a certain focus or
48:25
Speaker 1: intentional plan and then realize that maybe I'm climbing the
48:29
Speaker 1: wrong mountain. Yeah, I would say all the time, because
48:34
Speaker 1: I think so. One of the things I think about
48:37
Speaker 1: is goal setting is important for the very reason that
48:40
Speaker 1: you just described. Is it because it can clarify what
48:43
Speaker 1: you're actually valuing or you're actually striving towards, or what
48:46
Speaker 1: you're actually pursuing and why you're pursuing it. But I
48:50
Speaker 1: think goal achieving is overrated. I think the process of
48:53
Speaker 1: getting clear on what things are motivating you and why
48:57
Speaker 1: that might be the case is super important, which is
48:59
Speaker 1: goal and I'm repeating myself, but I think the process
49:03
Speaker 1: of in pursuing that, you are going to discover a
49:06
Speaker 1: bunch of things that hopefully enable you to unlock new
49:10
Speaker 1: doors and see things differently and realize the five hundred
49:12
Speaker 1: gramd was and actually the thing that mattered it was
49:13
Speaker 1: actually something else, and the fact that you wanted to
49:15
Speaker 1: be in a different job, and so like, why don't
49:17
Speaker 1: you go and get a different job without the need
49:18
Speaker 1: to have the five Like the process of discovery just
49:20
Speaker 1: by setting the goal, to me is so much more
49:22
Speaker 1: important than like, oh I got the five hundred gram,
49:24
Speaker 1: but I'm miserable. Yes, okay, So like the achieving part
49:26
Speaker 1: is overrated. It's the especially if the process is robust,
49:29
Speaker 1: which the one you describe is. It's the process of
49:32
Speaker 1: self inquiry basically to go, this is the thing I
49:34
Speaker 1: think I want. Why do I want that? Why is
49:36
Speaker 1: that important to me? And who would help me get that?
49:38
Speaker 1: And maybe in.
49:39
Speaker 2: Discovering that year, oh, actually I realize I have twelve
49:41
Speaker 2: people in my network that could probably help me do that.
49:44
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.
49:45
Speaker 2: So maybe I'll go talk to those twelve people and
49:47
Speaker 2: I'm less attached about because it's going to help me
49:49
Speaker 2: do the thing, but more in those twelve conversations, maybe
49:51
Speaker 2: I'll end up in like a bunch of different directions
49:53
Speaker 2: I couldn't have predicted at the start. So I like
49:56
Speaker 2: the process and I don't necessarily think the outcome of
50:00
Speaker 2: achieving the goal is as important as we think.
50:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting, it's about cheesy, but it's about who
50:05
Speaker 1: you become on the climb, not you know, not the summit.
50:08
Speaker 1: And like to this point, which you said, you know
50:12
Speaker 1: it's like the achievement or the goal itself. Yeah, it's good,
50:14
Speaker 1: but I think back. So I started training people in
50:20
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Well, I started writing programs, working gyms.
50:22
Speaker 1: I started pizzing in eighty six, which is next year,
50:25
Speaker 1: forty years right. I literally have trained thousands of people
50:30
Speaker 1: who their primary goal. I'm not saying this is a
50:32
Speaker 1: bad goal. Anyone done crack the shits, don't send me
50:35
Speaker 1: an email. But their main focus was to reach a
50:38
Speaker 1: certain weight, or to reach a certain body fat level, right,
50:43
Speaker 1: and in some cases, to reach a certain bench press
50:46
Speaker 1: number or whatever. But they were all of these essentially measurable,
50:52
Speaker 1: quantifiable numeric goals now the amount of people that got
50:56
Speaker 1: to their goal weight and then went, ah, that's it,
51:00
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm happy pretty much zero zero, yeah, really
51:03
Speaker 1: much zero. It's like they came in, they had a goal,
51:06
Speaker 1: they achieved the goal, and then when they got to
51:08
Speaker 1: the goal, there was almost no contentment or no last contentment, right.
51:14
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably an episode for another day.
51:17
Speaker 1: But I think we think sometimes that when we tick
51:21
Speaker 1: that box, or we hit that weight, or we hit
51:23
Speaker 1: that bench press, or we get that body composition, or
51:26
Speaker 1: we get that income or we get that fucking PhD
51:29
Speaker 1: or we get that that we're going to somehow that
51:32
Speaker 1: external achievement is going to equate to some internal reality
51:36
Speaker 1: that is pretty much nirvana. And then we get there
51:39
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh fuck, there's no nirvana with this.
51:41
Speaker 1: I make the same person. Yeah I've got to lose
51:44
Speaker 1: three more kilos, it's definitely three more kilos. I'm still
51:47
Speaker 1: the same person with the same brain.
51:49
Speaker 2: I feel like this is the same is true with
51:51
Speaker 2: you know, people who think they need to move overseas
51:53
Speaker 2: to escape the thing that they're currently experiencing in their
51:56
Speaker 2: day to day and they get overseas and they go
51:58
Speaker 2: it's all in my head.
51:59
Speaker 1: Still it's still. Yeah, the fact that I live on
52:01
Speaker 1: the isle of Man isn't helping. The fact that like
52:05
Speaker 1: that that helps, damn it is.
52:08
Speaker 2: I Oh, but I also want to go into that
52:12
Speaker 2: a little bit. For having the goals, It's almost like
52:15
Speaker 2: having the specific bench press goal is cool as long
52:19
Speaker 2: as your happiness and success and contentment is not contingent
52:23
Speaker 2: on hitting it. It's like, yes, can you enjoy the
52:26
Speaker 2: process of trying to get the one hundred and fifty
52:28
Speaker 2: kilo ground bench press and not only be happy or
52:32
Speaker 2: content if and when you get that? Because I think
52:35
Speaker 2: that's where we set ourselves up for failure, because you're right,
52:37
Speaker 2: you hit the bench press. We I've have a benchress
52:39
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty. But say you did, and you.
52:40
Speaker 1: Go, oh, I still feel a bit shit, Like what's
52:44
Speaker 1: going on there?
52:46
Speaker 3: Yeah?
52:46
Speaker 1: I need to do one hundred and fifty one? Yeah?
52:48
Speaker 1: Why am I problem still here? Exactly? Yeah, I'm living
52:51
Speaker 1: on the isle of Man. Oh, Apparently my problems weren't geographical.
52:55
Speaker 1: It's psychological. That's true. I think it's so true.
52:59
Speaker 2: It's like if people to go on a holiday to
53:00
Speaker 2: escape the reality, and they realize when they get back
53:02
Speaker 2: or when they're on the holiday is like, oh, I'm
53:04
Speaker 2: still the same person with the same noise rattling around
53:06
Speaker 2: in my head.
53:08
Speaker 1: That's the way, mate. I love talking to you. My
53:11
Speaker 1: audience loves you, Tiff. It's got a hard crush on you.
53:14
Speaker 1: She's only a human. How do people connect with you
53:18
Speaker 1: and find you and follow you? I mean human?
53:20
Speaker 2: Periscope dot com is always the best place to go.
53:23
Speaker 2: My email's on there and there's a bunch of tall
53:25
Speaker 2: metaphors that people seem to enjoy it because I'm a
53:27
Speaker 2: tall human. So feel free to reach out any point.
53:29
Speaker 2: I always get a lovely email or three off your
53:32
Speaker 2: listeners every time I want, so thanks, thanks to you,
53:34
Speaker 2: and thanks to the listeners for being so awesome and gracious.
53:38
Speaker 3: Well say reach out then, because they have to reach
53:41
Speaker 3: shirt high.
53:42
Speaker 1: I didn't, but I'm going to start doing that more deliberately. Now.
53:44
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, get on your tippy toes a thank
53:51
Speaker 1: you mate, Well say goodbye fair but two meter Peter,
53:54
Speaker 1: it's been fucking great. Thanks team