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Dormant or Decayed? Identifying Risk Before It's Too Late · Talking Trees with Davey Tree

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Doug Oester.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: This week I'm joined by Leo Katz.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: He is a district manager of the Debutree Expert Company in Portland, Oregon.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Leo.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm great, Doug.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Does Portland have like the best climate in the world?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I actually thought that before moving here, and funny enough, these past couple years, the summers, summers here keep getting hotter and hotter.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved here thinking it was going to be a nice temperate climate and more brutal summers in the Pacific Northwest than I think the rest of the country gives us credit for.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm just thinking nice cloudy, rainy days and trees growing a foot a day and uh that sort of thing.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's always uh uh a dream when you're looking from one coast to the next.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Grass is always greener, maybe trees are always bigger.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, that should be a t-shirt.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll get that one marketed for us.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to the talk to the higher-ups about that one.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're talking about dormant or decayed.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when you think of decay, when someone brings that up, what's the first thing that comes to mind for you when we're talking about going to a property?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so first first thing that comes to mind for me is is hopefully getting to the property.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of times people um will want to describe a situation over the phone.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we we refer to you know levels of inspection uh when we're doing our risk assessment.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um sometimes a level one risk assessment can be completed via a picture, which basically just means, yeah, uh just that, a single uh perspective um of a tree.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But generally, before I uh can give recommendations, I really like to be on site, give a level two inspection involves uh at the very least a full walk around of the tree, um, eyes on site, see you know what's going on, inspect the root system, um, see, see what's going on nearby, and uh and frankly comes with a good amount of just detective work.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, figuring out if was there a driveway put in next to this tree um a couple months ago that that um cut the roots or something.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um usually putting our rec our um reporter caps on is something I talk to my team a lot about, just asking questions about the site.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes we can get a lot of answers about the tree before even really getting in too far into biology um and and what's going on with the tree itself, of just you know what's happened nearby.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I think is interesting though, yes, you are going out and looking at that specific tree, but I know from doing this podcast that it doesn't end there, that you're looking at all the trees, you're looking at the the landscape, you're looking at, as you said, you know, was a driveway put in, is there something else going on here?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bigger picture, isn't it?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, always.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, the longer I do this, the more um it takes me a few a few questions usually when I'm talking to a client before even really getting into the tree, like you said, of walking the site, um, looking at looking at trees nearby, and um in the more urban environments that that we tend to do more of our work in sometimes involves maybe poking a uh getting a look over the fence, seeing what's going on at the neighbor's yard.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of close property lines here in Portland that um, you know, if if your neighbor did something a few months ago that maybe the average homeowner wouldn't think what could have impact the tree, um those those are things that uh you know I just kind of keep in the back of my mind as I run through my questions.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I like the way you put it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't ever heard it put that way, but it is so perfect detective work.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about the part about being an arborist and being a detective.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a great way to explain it, what you have to figure out.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not so obvious.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do, I do really think of I again, I I kind of preach to my uh my team out here of being thinking of yourself as a detective.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, like what I was just alluding to, the average homeowner does not know the risks or um impacts of certain events to their trees.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um getting you know some sort of site history makes a big difference, like like we were just talking about.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: What what has um what has gone on recently, construction, new projects.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of our answers up up top in the in the canopy start with what's going on on the ground, what's happened with the roots.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and like I said, that the longer I've been doing this, the the more um emphasis I put on that because jumping straight in, looking at the canopy, it's it's just a short, it's a short-sighted solution.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're if you look up and you're seeing a lot of deadwood, a lot of stress, you know, if the canopy's thinning, I think um maybe a less experienced arborist or someone with a little more eagerness to jump right in, you might just say, okay, yeah, we'll just you know, we'll take care of the pruning, we'll get this deadwood out of here, um, we'll do what we can to um take the immediate risks out.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But as we take a step back, you say, okay, why is this happening?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why is there so much deadwood here?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: What what's why is the tree under stress?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are the environment environmental conditions that have changed?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the what you know, age of the tree, what type of species are we looking at, what's our failure profile?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um there's a lot of questions and thought that um go into any recommendation before I just you know jump jump right in and want to blurt out an answer.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about homeowners and dormancy.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I'm guessing this is the kind of call you'll get early in the season.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, my tree's dead.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Something's wrong with it, but it just hasn't leafed out yet.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it works, or are there other dormancy questions you get?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, yeah, that one is unfortunately common.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would say, particularly with um folks that have moved or recently moved to Portland.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um one we get pretty often out here, we have a species called a Don Redwood, which is a um deciduous conifer.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in the dormant season, it looks it looks like it has died.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh as you get into fall that the needles turn yellow and then they drop.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And people who aren't familiar with that species um oftentimes think it's dead.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, sometimes they're right.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it just, like I said, depends with what species we're talking about.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'd ask if I can come by and take a look.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this this year in particular, we've gotten the in the last four four or five years or so, we've had some big storms in the winter.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um people are getting much more aware to the importance of um storm preparation, of pruning before uh you know, we get hit with a big storm.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um these days it seems like the um the dormant emphasis uh is coming in the fall.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: People are realizing our our storm season out here is usually you know somewhere in the winter, somewhere between December and February.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um this time of year, unfortunately, I think some homeowners have learned their lessons in the past uh couple of years and are trying to get ahead of the game now.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that basically means having an arborist on property and looking before things go bad weather-wise, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you want you want to be a client already of a Davy so that they know who you are.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you just all of a sudden realize, like, oh, wait a minute, it's October or whatever the month might be, whether it's summer storms, fall storms, whenever years come, you'll get some help quickly.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And take a look at that and take a look at that tree before the storm hits.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Something we pride ourselves on a lot is that the emergency calls that we get um by and large are not from our long-term clients.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: That uh the trees that we take care of, you know, when we're proactive in our our management plans, whether that's pruning or soil care or plant health care treatments, um, I mean, there's a lot of reasons why, but um, usually, unfortunately, it is uh homeowners that you know haven't had their trees looked at in 10 plus years, and now all of a sudden there's a big disaster to deal with.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to go back because on this side of the country in Pittsburgh, my favorite tree is a Don Redwood.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you're growing you're growing Dawn Redwoods in Portland.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: How big do they get in Portland?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty big.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't believe, at least none come to mind off the top of my head that are old growths um out here.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I mean they can be a hundred plus feet tall here, you know, and I've seen several that are um 50 to 60 inch um diameter.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So so they can definitely become uh pretty significantly sized out here, and especially in more uh naturalized areas at the arboretum here, for example.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a very massive one that's you know probably close to 120, maybe 130 feet tall, and it's around that 50-inch diameter mark.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you plant them when you can find the space for them?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it a tree that's usually already there?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've planted several, yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they I would say they they they do well here under the right circumstances.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they definitely need room, like you were saying, they need room to grow.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if we're in the more downtown urban areas, I I would they're not recommended in tight um backyards, obviously if they're under power lines or something like that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But but if there's room for them, um for them to mature and they're not gonna have to, you know, outcompete mature Douglas furs that are next to them.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they definitely do well here under the right circumstances.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my first encounter with a Davy Arborist here in Pittsburgh was a competition between myself and one other person who both said they had the biggest Don Redwood in Pittsburgh.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he came out and he looked at it, and we both won because I said was biggest, I said uh tallest, and the other guy said no, I meant furthest around.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we both we both won.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the other story for Don Redwood when I moved in here, I had an eighth grader at the time who when I walked out the backyard was about 50 feet up in that tree because it's a good climbing tree.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good climbing trees, yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I basically had a heart attack.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're you're smart to do it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope they uh hope they got down safely and listened uh when you told them why why it was a little dangerous.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But he he's 40 years old now, so yes, he he he got down safely.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I that tree is still there.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love when it does change color and and drops, but if you didn't know it was supposed to do that and you're looking at it thinking it's uh not deciduous, you would be confused.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I also had a problem with decay where I was I walked out and I looked up at an oak tree, and about 30 feet up I saw the chicken of the woods mushrooms coming out of the uh a kind of flat spot up there, and once my Davy Arborist got up there, took a hammer to see what was going on, and I could hear that it was hollow from down below.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh mushrooms and fungi are a part of decay, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: They are, yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um one of the again on the detective side of of uh of work and in Sri Risk Assessment, uh we refer to um signs versus symptoms of decay.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um so signs being something that uh, you know, sure fire indication of active decay um present in the tree.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Symptom is more, you know, maybe there's something else going on here worth looking into doesn't necessarily mean um that there is decay present.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So fungal fruiting bodies um are a sign.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: It does mean that there is um decay present.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and again, it's why having a good arborist who understands um types of fungal fruiting bodies um in relation to the tree species that you're looking at.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um fungal fruiting bodies um can mean different things on different trees, and and certain uh species have different failure profiles that you know you look at out here.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not I don't see too much chicken of the woods, but um let's see.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: On maple, big leaf maples, for example, we see tons of um tons of decay, and um there can be fungal fruiting bodies in the heartwood that if the cambium is still intact, doesn't necessarily mean that the tree needs to come down.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um versus you know, if you're looking at the same tree, a big leaf maple, uh certain Ganoderma is a is a fungal fruiting body out here, and certain gamader Ganoderma infestations uh can be pretty serious.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and if you don't know what you're looking for, um they they can cause cause big big failures, um especially in a loading event.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, yeah, I mean knowing knowing what you're looking for, the failure profile of the species and and being able to correctly identify um the fungus is is a major, major component in the equation.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And is that species just prone to to fungal issues?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Big leaf maple?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, out here at least, there's um, like I said, usually it I would say rarely are do you come across a big leaf maple that um does not have some kind of heartwood decay.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um doesn't always mean that there's a fungal fruiting body present.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when there is not, uh like I said, they the can be if when the cambium layer is intact, um it can that tree can live another 50 plus years.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not it's not a an alarm for me, you know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there are certain certain companies, certain arborists that um you know may um disagree um and diagnose trees trees differently, but in my experience, that you know, big leaf maple is a perfect example of one of those that uh homeowners get scared of uh because they see a big you know rot pocket in the heartwood, and then I if I come out and I see that the reactionwood looks good and there's compartmentalization present, and everything you know that you want to see in a uh healing process is there that you know there's nothing to worry about.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about this Portland climate.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: What is spring like and what is your planting season like?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And sounds like summer isn't what I thought it was gonna be there.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you and me both.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um it is so I I would say on the whole, still relatively temperate.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're probably in like a nine to ten month growth season.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a long, pretty close to full-year growth season.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Very rarely do we get um a freeze.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in near your neck of the woods, Doug.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I was used to very short uh growth seasons.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, out here, I mean, planting season always in the dormant season, so that part doesn't change too much.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's no real risk any time of year for newly planted trees um uh in the dormant season, I should say.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um summertime is definitely uh that's when we we cut everything off.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we don't really do any plantings.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I always advise at the very least June through September, and depending on how eager clients are.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um November, December, January, February, those those hardy dormant months are definitely the best time for plantings.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and spring's usually a big pop.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um that like I said, near-around year growth season starts in the spring.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and things I would say what feels like overnight to me, but you know, we'll have it'll be uh a long winter, and then it'll feel like I I look up and all of a sudden there's buds on everything, and um people are calling because there's their plants are are growing quickly, and and it's beautiful.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of flowering trees out here, um, but it does create a um a very timely amount of work in in the springtime for us.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I grew up near Cleveland too, and okay, that winter is much different than even the winter I have here two hours away in Pittsburgh, and I'm certain it's different out there in Portland than Cleveland.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Lake Effect is no joke.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no kidding.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I want to talk to you a little bit about uh your job and how you found your way to it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try not to bore you with too long of a story.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I went to uh I did my undergrad near near Pittsburgh, actually, uh small school called Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um after that, I I got a uh communications degree, wasn't wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do, and I got uh a marketing internship, I think, my between my sophomore and junior year, and realized pretty quickly that the cubicle life was not going to be for me.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so after that, I I just kind of started Googling outdoor jobs.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I stumbled my way into uh into trail work out in Colorado and from there made my way in with the Forest Service.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was on some backcountry uh trail crews.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um in wilderness areas, you can't use chainsaws.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing uh big cross-cut projects.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So to date, I'd say it was the greatest job in the world.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I pretty much got paid to uh to hike around the mountains of uh Colorado and Wyoming with big cross-cut saws, and um, some of my closest friends uh were made during that time.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're still doing that work.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And my now wife girlfriend at the time was getting a little sick of me disappearing for six months um out of the year.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So she was, you know, we were trying to figure out a way how to uh keep me outside and in the city.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I kind of stumbled upon this uh field of urban forestry.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I loved what I was doing in forestry.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um we moved out here and I ended up going to grad school at Portland State here um with a uh public administration um degree with a focus in in urban forestry.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and all the while I was I was climbing trees um and got into the the management side a bit, but yeah, just found a love for.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's no the Pacific Northwest feels like the greatest place in the world to climb trees.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really excited to get out here, stay active, you know, be in a city, but but stay outside.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and what's really fun about climbing, at least what I loved, is that it felt like every day was a new puzzle.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Every tree is a little bit different, every yard, every work site that you work in is a little bit different.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have to um there's a very uh specific skill set that has to come with a um a level of creativity and problem solving on on the the climber side, whether you're the crew lead or um the guy in the tree, whoever's managing um the site every day.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, everything's a little bit different every day.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: It kept me on my toes.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm on the go guy, and and it always felt like there was always something um something new to learn, some new skill to uh to hone in on.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have to ask, how big of a tree can you cut with a cross-cut saw and how hard is it?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really big trees, um, and very difficult.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I used to joke when I started out here that um when we make our our notch cuts, um, when you're using a chainsaw, if you make a mistake, you can correct your mistake um you know in a matter of seconds.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you're cutting a cross-cut saw, so I was I was generally using uh either 14 or 16 foot um blades.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's someone on the other side of the tree, and we were getting pretty close to maxing them out at times.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we're cutting um dead, I should say, dead old growth, um, old growth trees that were uh you know a hazard or threat to um hiking trails.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I mean making a single notch cut in those trees would could could take half a day, whereas you know, when you're using a chainsaw, you're getting through pretty quickly.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I had a lot of respect for the craft.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started using these fancy machines that make our life so easy, it is no stranger to me on how how difficult it can be.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is so cool.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it was a very cool job.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna leave it right there, Leo.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for all the information.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's great to hear.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're done here, we're gonna have to chit-chat about uh growing up in Cleveland.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I want to find out exactly where you were, and I'm gonna tell you exactly where I was, and we will talk again soon.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, as I said, thanks so much for your time.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Doug.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was great to chat with you.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Doug Oester, and as always, I would love for you to subscribe to this podcast and let us know what you think about what you're hearing here.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can send us an email to podcast at Deby.com.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S at D-A-V-E-Y.com.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can also click the link at the end of our show notes to text us a fan mail message.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your ideas could be on an upcoming show.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to hear from you, and as always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Trees are the answer.