Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 231 - A Close Look at Jesus of Nazareth

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Ep. 231 - A Close Look at Jesus of Nazareth · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Oscar Navarro: The two mistakes.
• 1:04
  Oscar Navarro: When you're talking about the incarnation, which leads to heresy, I mean, we've got you know Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism that have an unbalanced understanding of the incarnation.
• 1:13
  Oscar Navarro: They come up with just crazy theologies based on it.
• 1:16
  Oscar Navarro: But the balance is that he really was fully God and fully man.
• 1:21
  Oscar Navarro: When we say he was fully man, we, as you mentioned, he ate, he had dirt under his fingers, he worked, he sweated, he cried, he fell asleep, he got tired, he thought with a mind right, he wasn't faking being a man.
• 1:34
  Oscar Navarro: You know, when Superman dresses up as Clark Kent, he's pretending right.
• 1:38
  Oscar Navarro: But Jesus wasn't pretending to be a man, he was fully man.
• 1:42
  Oscar Navarro: And yet we also know that he was fully God.
• 1:45
  Oscar Navarro: He forgave sin and fulfilled scripture in the way the only fully God could do that.
• 1:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Five 41 AM.
• 1:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Five 41 AM A text from Ray Comfort to Ken Ham and me.
• 2:03
  Emeal Zwayne: A friend sent me a text, if yet he isn't real.
• 2:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Could someone, ken Ham, explain this Well?
• 2:12
  Ray Comfort: that was Jedi, wasn't it?
• 2:13
  Ray Comfort: What was happening?
• 2:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeti, ray, yeti, yeah, along with a cartoon drawing of a fluffy Yeti smiling and holding up a star.
• 2:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Five 41 AM yeah, it's normal.
• 2:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I should be immune to it by now.
• 2:30
  Oscar Navarro: He was just sitting there at the bottom of his bed hole.
• 2:32
  Oscar Navarro: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 2:36
  Mark Spence: Thank you.
• 2:37
  Mark Spence: How can I get out of here?
• 2:39
  Emeal Zwayne: That would be a good start to a book, as I was sitting in my bed hole contemplating, the mysteries of life.
• 2:46
  Ray Comfort: Getting ready to climb my ladder.
• 2:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, please, please, tell us you've stopped doing it.
• 2:52
  Ray Comfort: No, it's my life saver.
• 2:53
  Ray Comfort: My chiropractor said I'd be in a wheelchair if I hadn't done that.
• 2:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, for the sake of your progeny, successive generations and the issue of a lot of money, could you just videotape yourself getting in and out of that hole?
• 3:09
  Emeal Zwayne: No, because I'm sure in years the family can sell it for millions.
• 3:12
  Ray Comfort: It's too intimate.
• 3:13
  Ray Comfort: I have my shirt off, Wow.
• 3:16
  Emeal Zwayne: TMI.
• 3:18
  Oscar Navarro: For those new listeners that maybe have joined us in the last six months of the year and haven't heard Oscar the explainer, ray Comfort cut a hole into the mattress of his bed so that he sleeps in that hole at night.
• 3:30
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, because I'd get out of bed and my back was really bad for years Sometimes crawl across the floor.
• 3:35
  Ray Comfort: It was so weak and I thought I know what the problem is.
• 3:37
  Ray Comfort: That's the pressure from the mattress, the easy comfort mattress.
• 3:42
  Emeal Zwayne: That's right, we're starting a company, friend Easy Comfort mattress company.
• 3:47
  Ray Comfort: So I got a very sharp knife and just cut up an eight inch hole, probably 14 inch circumference, in the bed so that my back area goes in that hole and there's no pressure on the spine.
• 3:59
  Ray Comfort: And it fixed it instantly no pressure.
• 4:01
  Ray Comfort: So Kyra, practice out of business when it comes to spinal and othesis.
• 4:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, why don't you put a hole in your bed?
• 4:06
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm normal, this is true.
• 4:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, ray, you need to stop that.
• 4:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Have you ever thought of putting a Yeti in that hole?
• 4:14
  Emeal Zwayne: No, I have a wife.
• 4:19
  Ray Comfort: I just want to know it, like if it's like Sue, do you know where my keys are?
• 4:22
  Oscar Navarro: Did you check your hole?
• 4:28
  Mark Spence: Oh boy.
• 4:29
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, france.
• 4:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's a lovely comment.
• 4:31
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from Seth Johnson 05.
• 4:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Can't get enough.
• 4:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't begin to describe how helpful this podcast has been for me.
• 4:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Growing up in the church of Christ denomination, it was always hard for me to see what the true gospel was.
• 4:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, easy, mark and Oscar are prime examples of what a Christian should be Primate.
• 4:48
  Ray Comfort: Primate example.
• 4:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Their open honesty is truly appreciated and their candid conversations about scripture are encouraging, to say the least.
• 4:55
  Emeal Zwayne: I would love to hear the guys discuss different Bible translations which ones Christians should embrace and which ones we should avoid.
• 5:04
  Oscar Navarro: I like that.
• 5:05
  Oscar Navarro: That would be a good one, huh.
• 5:06
  Emeal Zwayne: We should write that down.
• 5:07
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, we should.
• 5:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, thanks, seth.
• 5:09
  Emeal Zwayne: We're blessed that you've been blessed, and thanks for writing in.
• 5:13
  Emeal Zwayne: This podcast is brought to you by so many lions, so few easy's my favorite book Ray's ever written.
• 5:21
  Emeal Zwayne: See Ray's not listening because if he was, he would have immediately responded.
• 5:24
  Emeal Zwayne: What were you doing, Ray?
• 5:25
  Ray Comfort: There's a Texas judge is allowing a woman to bought her baby, and I just saw the item and it's making me mad because it's a possibility the baby may be deformed.
• 5:33
  Ray Comfort: A mask got a testimony.
• 5:34
  Ray Comfort: You were told that and you didn't have the baby aborted.
• 5:37
  Ray Comfort: It's one of your kids, isn't that right, Mark?
• 5:40
  Mark Spence: Yeah, not exactly.
• 5:41
  Mark Spence: He was in a topic pregnancy with Nathaniel and the doctors had said in the emergency room that it was an ectopic pregnancy.
• 5:48
  Mark Spence: Long story short, it was not an ectopic pregnancy.
• 5:51
  Mark Spence: The baby was inside the womb and here he is, we have him.
• 5:54
  Mark Spence: He's 22 years old now, so the doctors were wrong.
• 5:58
  Mark Spence: But even if the child was going to be deformed, we would still have the child, because why do we wanna kill those that are not like us?
• 6:08
  Mark Spence: Absolutely.
• 6:09
  Mark Spence: We walked around killing people in wheelchairs, Right.
• 6:13
  Mark Spence: It's an absolute ridiculous argument to say that we should kill babies in the womb that are deformed.
• 6:20
  Ray Comfort: So how are we gonna get back to it?
• 6:21
  Ray Comfort: It is from there.
• 6:22
  Emeal Zwayne: How do we crawl out of this hole?
• 6:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, actually, that's a good reminder, Mark Friends.
• 6:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Make sure to check out the what Is it movie.
• 6:30
  Emeal Zwayne: You'd find it on our Now in.
• 6:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Spanish oh, is that a ban de los nios?
• 6:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, what is it?
• 6:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know.
• 6:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Check it out on our YouTube channel.
• 6:39
  Oscar Navarro: Ray's Spanish was oh, oh.
• 6:42
  Ray Comfort: Hey oh oh, that's all I could muster.
• 6:44
  Ray Comfort: I'm serious.
• 6:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, oh, and it still came out in an Indian accent.
• 6:48
  Ray Comfort: Oh, oh, oh, oh oh.
• 6:50
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, I was saying so many lines, so few Daniels.
• 6:53
  Emeal Zwayne: That's fitting in line of abortion.
• 6:54
  Emeal Zwayne: We need more people to stand up for righteousness in our culture.
• 6:57
  Emeal Zwayne: That's a book by Ray, my favorite book by Ray Ray.
• 7:00
  Emeal Zwayne: The title Ray, because it's dedicated to Oscar.
• 7:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, that's right.
• 7:03
  Emeal Zwayne: And don't forget the Living Waters mug.
• 7:05
  Emeal Zwayne: You can eat something to drink with friends and they have in a study Bible all at livingwaterscom.
• 7:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, all right, we are continuing the what is the gospel series, and today is one of my favorites because it deals with my favorite person here.
• 7:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends is Jesus of Nazareth.
• 7:24
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought you were gonna say yourself Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
• 7:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Far be it from me.
• 7:30
  Oscar Navarro: Upbeat music playing in background.
• 7:34
  Oscar Navarro: Welcome back to what is the gospel.
• 7:36
  Oscar Navarro: This is session three.
• 7:38
  Oscar Navarro: Who is Jesus of Nazareth?
• 7:40
  Oscar Navarro: Today, we are talking about our savior and I think this is an important time to stop and mentioned, as a famous theologian already has, that theology, especially when it comes to Christology, has to lead to doxology.
• 7:54
  Oscar Navarro: In other words, when we talk about the things of God, especially Christ, it has to lead to our praise and worship.
• 8:01
  Oscar Navarro: We are talking about a real person, born 2000 years ago and who lived a life, died, resurrected and is now ascended.
• 8:09
  Oscar Navarro: With that said, thank you for being here, guys.
• 8:12
  Oscar Navarro: Easy Ray Comfort and Mark Spence.
• 8:15
  Oscar Navarro: Welcome back, guys.
• 8:16
  Oscar Navarro: We are back.
• 8:17
  Oscar Navarro: Okay, for our first question where do we see Jesus at work before being born?
• 8:22
  Oscar Navarro: In the manger.
• 8:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, boy, the pre-incarnate Christ.
• 8:27
  Emeal Zwayne: That's a lofty term but it simply means that Jesus was before he became a man.
• 8:33
  Emeal Zwayne: And we can go to John 1-1,.
• 8:36
  Emeal Zwayne: And the beginning was the word.
• 8:37
  Emeal Zwayne: The word was with God, the word was God.
• 8:39
  Emeal Zwayne: He was in the beginning with God.
• 8:41
  Emeal Zwayne: All things were made through him and without him nothing was made that was made.
• 8:45
  Emeal Zwayne: So what was Jesus doing before he was in the manger?
• 8:49
  Emeal Zwayne: He was creating, he was functioning as the second person of the triune Godhead.
• 8:58
  Emeal Zwayne: And to me it's baffling when I hear, suppose, that theologians talked about how Christ didn't exist before the incarnation.
• 9:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Obviously cultic and liberal theologians.
• 9:10
  Emeal Zwayne: You think about what Jesus said in John chapter eight, when he was talking to the Pharisees.
• 9:15
  Emeal Zwayne: He said your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad.
• 9:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Then the Jew said to him you're not yet 50 years old and have you seen Abraham?
• 9:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Jesus said to them most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am, and so Christ was and has always been the eternal son of God, the second person of the triune Godhead.
• 9:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm sure Mark and Ray have more to say no.
• 9:39
  Ray Comfort: You've just told both my scriptures and where I was heading in the beginning was the word and where's the word God?
• 9:44
  Ray Comfort: And the word became flesh and twat amongst us and there's certain portions of scripture like there's hundreds of them, but give me goosebumps and one of them is John.
• 9:51
  Ray Comfort: Is it John eight?
• 9:51
  Ray Comfort: Where it the I am, where it just leads up, just moves up and he's gonna say it before Abraham was.
• 9:58
  Ray Comfort: I am Pre-existent and it's just throwing.
• 10:02
  Ray Comfort: I love the way you introduced this.
• 10:04
  Ray Comfort: It's such a lofty subject.
• 10:06
  Ray Comfort: Who is Jesus of Nazareth?
• 10:07
  Ray Comfort: If you get a secular, the secular world, talking about he's a historical figure.
• 10:10
  Ray Comfort: They had some great teachings, but we know him as Lord and that every atom that was made was made by him.
• 10:16
  Ray Comfort: There was nothing that was made that wasn't made by him, including our salvation and our very life and being and soul and everything.
• 10:23
  Ray Comfort: So it's a lofty subject.
• 10:25
  Mark Spence: Yeah, you know when you begin to think of appearances of God.
• 10:29
  Mark Spence: In the Old Testament it would be known as a theophany, or an appearance of Christ would be a Christophany, almost used interchangeably, depending on the circumstance.
• 10:38
  Mark Spence: We have this story of Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and there was one as the son of man who was there with them in the midst of the fire Of the fire.
• 10:48
  Mark Spence: Absolutely, you know, a lot of people make that mistake.
• 10:51
  Mark Spence: They think that when Jesus entered onto the scene some 2000 years ago was his first entrance onto this planet, and that was not the case.
• 11:00
  Mark Spence: Jesus was always on the scene.
• 11:04
  Mark Spence: He is always there.
• 11:04
  Mark Spence: However, we deal with the incarnation of Christ, which we'll deal with here in just a moment.
• 11:10
  Mark Spence: That's when God became flesh.
• 11:13
  Mark Spence: But I'll tell you, we back it all the way up to Genesis, chapter one, and we see God making man in our image, our image.
• 11:23
  Mark Spence: He's not talking to the angels, he's not talking to any other entity, he's talking within the triunity of the Godhead.
• 11:31
  Mark Spence: Let us make man in our image.
• 11:33
  Mark Spence: And then we see in Genesis, chapter 11, with the tower of Babel, when he says let us confuse their language right, because they're of one tongue, speaking amongst the Trinity the Father, son and the Holy Spirit.
• 11:47
  Oscar Navarro: That's great.
• 11:47
  Oscar Navarro: I think of Martin Lord Jones.
• 11:50
  Oscar Navarro: He does a fantastic job of creating this imagery, which will lead into our next question.
• 11:54
  Oscar Navarro: He says imagine you being an angel in heaven and you're looking at Jesus.
• 11:59
  Oscar Navarro: And he looks over to his father and he says to him it is time he gets up.
• 12:03
  Oscar Navarro: He derobes himself of his glorious robe, he walks through the golden streets, out the pearly gates and condescends, descends himself into a major to be born of a Virgin Mary.
• 12:15
  Oscar Navarro: Right For the first time, these angels are seeing the Son not at the right hand of the Father.
• 12:21
  Oscar Navarro: Just imagine that, you know, which leads into our next question what does it mean that he became incarnate?
• 12:28
  Oscar Navarro: Could?
• 12:29
  Ray Comfort: I just say something here.
• 12:30
  Ray Comfort: Something that blows me away is that scripture that says the eye of the Lord is in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
• 12:35
  Ray Comfort: So we get an image of what.
• 12:36
  Ray Comfort: How does God see the earth?
• 12:38
  Ray Comfort: Is it from heaven?
• 12:40
  Ray Comfort: No, because it means his eye is in every place.
• 12:44
  Ray Comfort: It's not a physical eye like you and I have that's subject to looking forward.
• 12:48
  Ray Comfort: His eye looks forward, upward, backward, inside, outward, and it just it's mind blowing.
• 12:53
  Ray Comfort: And then you think how great God is to see all things all at once, throughout the whole of space, if it can be the whole of space, and to think this God that we can't comprehend condescended to become one man, born in a cow shed, to die for our sins.
• 13:10
  Ray Comfort: And when I think like that and get a grip of what God is like for a second, and then who Jesus was, it makes me listen to his words, the whole before Abraham I am.
• 13:20
  Ray Comfort: What would this God say and how would he speak?
• 13:23
  Ray Comfort: There's no arms or butts in what Jesus said.
• 13:25
  Ray Comfort: It's just straight authority, spoke with authority.
• 13:28
  Ray Comfort: And it's mind blowing.
• 13:30
  Emeal Zwayne: It is and you think about it.
• 13:32
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, obviously the incarnation speaks of Christ taking on human flesh and the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory.
• 13:42
  Emeal Zwayne: It says in John one his glory.
• 13:44
  Emeal Zwayne: You know we were talking about what Christ did in his pre-incarnate state and Mark mentioned the Christophonies that are throughout the Old Testament.
• 13:52
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, this was the same Christ that you know we see in scripture, oftentimes referred to as the angel of the Lord in different parts of the Old Testament, like in Genesis 16, you know you see him appearing to Hagar, sarah's maid servant, genesis 22, when Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac again angel of the Lord, but we see the interchangeable title there and then it refers to him as the Lord, exodus three, the burning Bush passage, judges 13, with the appearance to Samson's parents and so on and so forth.
• 14:22
  Emeal Zwayne: You know you see him all throughout the Old Testament.
• 14:25
  Emeal Zwayne: But then he comes into the New Testament, becomes flesh, dwells among us and this is a mind blowing thing when you think about it.
• 14:32
  Emeal Zwayne: God becoming flesh, you think would be an extraordinary event that would have, with all the pomp and circumstance that would surround appotentate right in the king.
• 14:43
  Emeal Zwayne: You would imagine him having, you know, the greatest heralds on earth announcing his coming.
• 14:50
  Emeal Zwayne: He'd be born in a palace.
• 14:51
  Emeal Zwayne: He would befriend the greatest dignitaries of earth.
• 14:54
  Emeal Zwayne: You know he would have all those things.
• 14:56
  Emeal Zwayne: But you think about it.
• 14:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Christ came and he was born to.
• 15:00
  Emeal Zwayne: A lowly virgin, was born in a manger, right in a barn.
• 15:03
  Emeal Zwayne: He was the friend of common fishermen.
• 15:08
  Emeal Zwayne: He died, not a glorious death, but died on our equivalent of an electric chair today, right on a cross, a cruel instrument of death.
• 15:16
  Emeal Zwayne: He who was rich became poor for us, and it just blows my mind, when you think of what that incarnation entailed, that, as it talks about in Philippians, that he humbled himself.
• 15:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, he didn't consider it a thing to be grass, being equal with God, but made himself with no reputation, taking the form of a bond servant and coming in the likeness of man.
• 15:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow.
• 15:38
  Ray Comfort: And with all the weaknesses that you and I have right.
• 15:40
  Ray Comfort: John.
• 15:40
  Ray Comfort: Chapter four he hungered, he thirsted, he became depressed.
• 15:45
  Ray Comfort: And you think, where did he become depressed?
• 15:47
  Ray Comfort: Well, spurgeon actually uses the word depressed when he speaks of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, sorrowful unto death, sweating drops of blood.
• 15:56
  Ray Comfort: And it's because he was being bruised right from that point by the Father for our sins, even back in the garden of Gethsemane, according to Spurgeon.
• 16:03
  Ray Comfort: And then we see his divinity in that he had the power over death, calling Lazarus man.
• 16:08
  Ray Comfort: I would have liked to be there for that, you know, for Lazarus come forth, just to see how he came forth.
• 16:14
  Ray Comfort: And then Jesus was the ultimate undertaker's nightmare.
• 16:17
  Ray Comfort: Seriously, I call the undertaker.
• 16:20
  Ray Comfort: We want our check back.
• 16:21
  Ray Comfort: He's just raised another one from the dead, you know, undertaker, getting the line and the loaves and fishes, the power to create.
• 16:28
  Ray Comfort: And here's a deep theological question for you guys Was the fish cooked?
• 16:35
  Oscar Navarro: It was obviously sushi.
• 16:35
  Oscar Navarro: It was sushi.
• 16:36
  Ray Comfort: No, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Raw fish, that's lady food.
• 16:39
  Ray Comfort: No, seriously think about it for a minute.
• 16:41
  Ray Comfort: When God does something, he does know it half baked.
• 16:42
  Ray Comfort: You've got 5,000 people haven't eaten for three days.
• 16:44
  Ray Comfort: You're gonna give them raw fish, make them cook it.
• 16:47
  Ray Comfort: Well, they could eat the bread.
• 16:48
  Ray Comfort: Was the bread half baked?
• 16:49
  Ray Comfort: It was baked, it was cooked, it was ready to go.
• 16:51
  Ray Comfort: So it's just a thought.
• 16:52
  Ray Comfort: I'm not gonna start a church on this National church of the cooked fish.
• 16:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I will tell you this, though, in connection with the incarnation.
• 16:58
  Emeal Zwayne: That blows me away.
• 16:59
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, at the end of the gospel of John, when Jesus appeared at the disciples after his resurrection, it said you know, when they came ashore, he said come, children, have breakfast.
• 17:07
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, there was fish cooking on the fire there.
• 17:11
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like he made breakfast for his disciples.
• 17:13
  Emeal Zwayne: It blows my mind.
• 17:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:16
  Ray Comfort: Most important meal of the day.
• 17:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man.
• 17:18
  Oscar Navarro: I love the balance you guys are giving it, because the two mistakes when you're talking about the incarnation, which leads to heresy I mean we've got you know Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism that have an unbalanced understanding of the incarnation.
• 17:30
  Oscar Navarro: They come up with just crazy theologies based on it.
• 17:33
  Oscar Navarro: But the balance is that he really was fully God and fully man.
• 17:38
  Oscar Navarro: When we say he was fully man, as you mentioned, he ate, he had dirt under his fingers, he worked, he sweated, he cried, he fell asleep, he got tired, he thought with a mind right, he wasn't faking being a man.
• 17:50
  Oscar Navarro: You know, when Superman dresses up as Clark Kent, he's pretending right, but Jesus wasn't pretending to be a man, he was fully man.
• 17:59
  Oscar Navarro: And yet we also know that he was fully God.
• 18:02
  Oscar Navarro: He forgave sin and fulfilled scripture in the way that only fully God could do that.
• 18:09
  Oscar Navarro: And so that balance is so important and I think you guys struck it really well.
• 18:15
  Mark Spence: Well, I love everything you guys are saying.
• 18:17
  Mark Spence: I don't have much to add to any of that.
• 18:18
  Mark Spence: You know, I think one of the mistakes that we often make is when we hear a word like incarnation, we say where is that in the Bible?
• 18:25
  Mark Spence: Where is the word incarnation?
• 18:26
  Mark Spence: Also, hypostatic union, right, it's not found in the Bible.
• 18:30
  Mark Spence: It's clearly taught the word trinity.
• 18:33
  Mark Spence: It's not found in the Bible, but these terms are clearly taught throughout scripture, and when you begin to grasp the incarnation, it'll begin to blow your mind.
• 18:43
  Mark Spence: You take that step back and you go woe is me, wow is him.
• 18:47
  Mark Spence: And it's the place where our affection and our attention always needs to be, which is just simply upon Christ.
• 18:56
  Oscar Navarro: I've heard someone ask like why is it necessary for the incarnation?
• 19:00
  Oscar Navarro: But it's so necessary because without the incarnate, fully man, fully God, then we don't have the perfect mediator between us, god and man.
• 19:10
  Oscar Navarro: You know.
• 19:11
  Ray Comfort: I think that one of the foundational scriptures that Jehovah's Witnesses used to deny the deity of Christ is I get to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
• 19:21
  Ray Comfort: And yet we see it balanced.
• 19:22
  Ray Comfort: But we see Jesus made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, and that's why God was manifest in the flesh, for the suffering of death, for as much then as the children, but takers of flesh and blood, he himself likewise took part of the same, so he could pass through death and destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil, and deliver those through the fear of death or their lifetime subject to bondage.
• 19:44
  Emeal Zwayne: What a glorious gospel, yeah, and you just think of again what the humiliation of Christ entailed.
• 19:52
  Emeal Zwayne: I heard it put this way once, kind of a modern analogy.
• 19:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Can you imagine today becoming a chihuahua to save a breed of Doberman pinchers and pit bulls that you knew were gonna devour you?
• 20:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Often atheists, especially one, indict God on how he's allowed man to suffer and all these things.
• 20:07
  Emeal Zwayne: But God entered our world knowing that he was gonna go to a cruel cross and be crucified by his own creation.
• 20:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, the very vocal cords and tongues and lips that he fashioned and formed.
• 20:19
  Emeal Zwayne: We're gonna blaspheme him and spit on him and ridicule him.
• 20:22
  Emeal Zwayne: The hands he fashioned and formed, we're going to rip him to shreds.
• 20:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And yet he did it out of love.
• 20:29
  Ray Comfort: Amen.
• 20:29
  Ray Comfort: You haven't seen your neighbor's chihuahua would beat up any bull Militant.
• 20:34
  Ray Comfort: Chihuahua, Delicious little brat.
• 20:36
  Oscar Navarro: We've covered pre-birth and birth, and now we should move into the life of Christ, which brings us to the next question what does passive and active obedience mean?
• 20:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, those are lofty theological terms but when you distill them basically, the passive obedience of Christ is what's been called his penalty-bearing work, and that would be obviously the cross.
• 20:57
  Emeal Zwayne: And then his active obedience would be his will of God obeying work, in other words living that perfect, righteous life.
• 21:07
  Emeal Zwayne: And these are really important.
• 21:09
  Emeal Zwayne: I love what John Owen said.
• 21:10
  Emeal Zwayne: He said the Lord Christ fulfilled the whole law for us.
• 21:12
  Emeal Zwayne: He did not only undergo the penalty of it due unto our sins, but also yielded that perfect obedience which it did require.
• 21:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Christ's fulfilling of the law and obedience unto its commands is no less imputed unto us for our justification than his undergoing the penalty of it is, and so it's important to recognize that that there was the passive and active that Christ did, in his passive obedience, go to the cross and pay the penalty.
• 21:40
  Emeal Zwayne: But in his passive obedience he went to the cross and his active obedience he lived the life of righteousness.
• 21:46
  Emeal Zwayne: And I think, mark, that's some of the points Usually when we share the gospel, we usually share half the story.
• 21:52
  Mark Spence: Half the story would include the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
• 21:57
  Mark Spence: And don't get me wrong, obviously we need all those things and we stress, we highlight, we underline those points.
• 22:04
  Mark Spence: But we must never forget about the life of Christ, because the life of Christ is what brings righteousness.
• 22:12
  Mark Spence: Righteousness, a right standing before the Father.
• 22:15
  Mark Spence: So when Jesus died on the cross, what that did is that brought us all back to ground zero.
• 22:21
  Mark Spence: That made us, if you would, little Adams, we are now without sin, but what is required of the law is righteousness.
• 22:28
  Mark Spence: You know, you often begin to think why was Jesus not the next one born when Adam and Eve sinned?
• 22:36
  Mark Spence: Why did we have all this turmoil of these wars?
• 22:39
  Mark Spence: I mean, the law was not even given yet until Exodus, chapter 20.
• 22:43
  Mark Spence: And then we have these tumultuous things begin to happen.
• 22:47
  Mark Spence: Then we have the silence of God between the old and the New Testament.
• 22:51
  Mark Spence: What is happening in the midst of all of this and I like the way you painted that picture, oscar, not too long ago about almost this hush of heaven, when the angels come to attention as Jesus strips off of his robe, comes down and he dwells amongst the people whom he had created.
• 23:11
  Mark Spence: And then he lives a perfect life, very key.
• 23:14
  Mark Spence: He was birthed under the law, perfectly kept the law necessary, he became subject to the law and as he became subject to the law, he perfectly kept it.
• 23:25
  Mark Spence: He always did that which pleased the Father and always doing that which pleased the Father.
• 23:31
  Mark Spence: And this is what's gonna bring in this judicial act.
• 23:33
  Mark Spence: We hear all the time within the gospel, because when Jesus perfectly kept the law and we break the law now a judicial act needs to take place.
• 23:44
  Mark Spence: We'll get into that in just a moment.
• 23:46
  Mark Spence: But when Jesus perfectly kept the law, now we have the righteousness of God being given to his people, Absolutely necessary.
• 23:59
  Mark Spence: So half the story is we talk about the death of Christ, but we don't talk about the life of Christ.
• 24:02
  Mark Spence: We don't need to be at the place where Adam is at.
• 24:04
  Mark Spence: What we need is to have the same righteousness as Jesus, which is now imputed to those who place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and repent of their sins.
• 24:15
  Oscar Navarro: And so the the passive work of Christ on the cross makes us innocent.
• 24:20
  Oscar Navarro: The act of work of his life declares us righteous.
• 24:25
  Mark Spence: That's right.
• 24:26
  Mark Spence: Yeah, that's right.
• 24:27
  Mark Spence: Justification the imputation of words.
• 24:31
  Oscar Navarro: That's great.
• 24:32
  Oscar Navarro: Thank you, mark.
• 24:32
  Oscar Navarro: You brought up a really important word, which is also part of our next question.
• 24:36
  Oscar Navarro: What does imputation mean?
• 24:37
  Oscar Navarro: Imputation.
• 24:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, imputation would involve the accounting of the righteousness of Christ to the believer.
• 24:49
  Emeal Zwayne: We see kind of this concept of righteousness being transferred in Genesis 15-6, where we see Abraham and it says and he believed in the Lord and he counted it to him for righteousness.
• 25:02
  Emeal Zwayne: And then Paul references that in Galatians 3-6 and Romans 4-3, and then he says this, and this kind of brings it to climax in Philippians 3-8 through 9.
• 25:11
  Emeal Zwayne: He said yet, indeed, I also count all things lost for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and Calculate them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
• 25:31
  Emeal Zwayne: So imputation would be the opposite of what, for example, rome or the Catholic Church would view as infused righteousness, where you get a little bit of the righteousness of God and then you grow in it, whereas imputation is the full righteousness of Christ, based on what Mark touched on earlier, that the perfect life of Christ lived out in obedience to the law of God, totally credited to our account through faith.
• 25:57
  Ray Comfort: I always remember by the word put being in there.
• 25:59
  Ray Comfort: I just put righteousness, that's good.
• 26:03
  Mark Spence: You know, when you begin to also think of the imputation of Christ's righteousness, it doesn't just end there, because we also were imputed with Adam's sin.
• 26:10
  Mark Spence: Adam's sin was imputed on us Romans, chapter 5, I believe it is, tells us and we inherited that sin and we grabbed that sin.
• 26:20
  Mark Spence: God, god, has a hold of that sin, places it upon the Son.
• 26:24
  Mark Spence: And now that imputation, in this case that righteousness, is given to us, it is credited to our account.
• 26:31
  Emeal Zwayne: The great exchange you know often.
• 26:34
  Ray Comfort: I say people whine about the imputation of Adam's sin to us and say that's not fair because I didn't ask to be born, I didn't ask to have this in nature.
• 26:43
  Ray Comfort: And so they kind of blame God and whine, which shows a lack of fear of God and lack of Thanksgiving for the gift of life.
• 26:49
  Ray Comfort: But it doesn't even work in a court of law to say, judge, I rape that woman because of the imputed sin of Adam, therefore I'm not accountable.
• 26:57
  Ray Comfort: No, he's held accountable and we're held accountable.
• 26:59
  Ray Comfort: And then you just have to compare what God has done with the imputed righteousness of Christ and suddenly that doesn't matter about this in nature, it's all been dealt with through the cross.
• 27:08
  Mark Spence: You know I like what Sparrow says here.
• 27:09
  Mark Spence: He says God has made God our salvation and he did it at the cross that God has provided a wave escape from God.
• 27:16
  Mark Spence: In God we run from God's wrath by running towards God's grace, which is found in Christ alone.
• 27:24
  Mark Spence: So it's a remarkable quote I love that you mentioned the great exchange.
• 27:29
  Oscar Navarro: It's so important to see our sin in exchange for his righteousness, and I like that you contrasted the difference between the gospel and what the Roman Catholic Church says because, like you mentioned, the Roman Catholic Church says that there is this little seed of righteousness that grows in us, but the imputation says that we have this alien righteousness.
• 27:50
  Oscar Navarro: Something that was not ours is now ours.
• 27:53
  Emeal Zwayne: And honestly it baffles me.
• 27:55
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't understand how anyone can be an honest student of scripture and come up with any other conclusion that we receive the full righteousness of Christ imputed, not having a righteousness of my own.
• 28:08
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, it's given to me by Christ and it's so clear all throughout scripture and why would you want to flap your arms when you're offered a parachute?
• 28:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Right.
• 28:18
  Ray Comfort: Take the parachute and just give up trying to save yourself.
• 28:20
  Ray Comfort: But it appeals to the pride of man, right?
• 28:22
  Ray Comfort: You know I want to just do my little bit and I guess that.
• 28:25
  Ray Comfort: I know, I guess it comes from not seeing your sin.
• 28:27
  Ray Comfort: Once you see your sin and it's true when the law shows it to be exceedingly sinful, you give up, that you're not going to try and flap your arms.
• 28:34
  Ray Comfort: You cannot save yourself, right.
• 28:36
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, there's such a self-evident element to this aspect of the gospel.
• 28:40
  Emeal Zwayne: It's so otherworldly, it's so beyond the imaginative powers of man to come up with something like this.
• 28:49
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what I mean.
• 28:50
  Emeal Zwayne: It's just so divine that God would come and take the place of sinners and exchange with them.
• 28:58
  Emeal Zwayne: You know him taking their sins upon them and giving them his righteousness, and how beautiful it is, and that, as we're going to talk about in a minute how that satisfies the wrath of God and deals with justice and deals with mercy and grace and so forth.
• 29:10
  Ray Comfort: Did you read that in Spurgeon recently?
• 29:12
  Ray Comfort: Because that's what I read in the Spurgeon Sermon where he said this something that just boosts his faith is that man could never have thought of what scripture gives us there's no way he could come up with a concept of imputed righteousness and a sacrificial death on the cross Absolutely.
• 29:28
  Mark Spence: And somebody once said religion is man's attempt to get to God, but Christianity was God's attempt and approval and acceptance way to get to man.
• 29:38
  Mark Spence: So there's no way for man to get to God.
• 29:40
  Mark Spence: How do you get to God?
• 29:41
  Mark Spence: And so what we do is we lie on bed of nails, we go door to door, we memorize different portions of scripture, sit on hard pews, we sit on hard pews, we try to do good deeds, but what we need is righteousness, and this is why that is so important.
• 29:53
  Mark Spence: And because we can't have this righteousness, because we've all broken God's law, god became a man and the person of Jesus Christ.
• 30:01
  Mark Spence: God used Jesus Christ to get to mankind because there's no other way.
• 30:05
  Mark Spence: There's no other name under heaven given among men or by which man must be saved.
• 30:10
  Oscar Navarro: Love it.
• 30:10
  Oscar Navarro: What does?
• 30:12
  Oscar Navarro: We talked about imputation.
• 30:14
  Oscar Navarro: What does propitiation mean?
• 30:18
  Ray Comfort: It's just a big word for substitute.
• 30:19
  Ray Comfort: You know, christ was our substitute.
• 30:21
  Ray Comfort: He stepped in our stead, he paid our fine, so we could be exonerated or dismissed in our case.
• 30:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and it deals with appeasement and satisfaction, which results in reconciliation Romans 3, 24 through 25, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is, in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in this forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed.
• 30:51
  Emeal Zwayne: And 1 John, 2, 2, and he Himself is a propitiation for our sins.
• 30:56
  Emeal Zwayne: And so propitiation deals with placating God, and I know that sounds almost, I guess you know, archaic in a sense, or draconian.
• 31:06
  Emeal Zwayne: What do you mean placating?
• 31:07
  Emeal Zwayne: But no, god is justly angry with the wicked.
• 31:11
  Emeal Zwayne: God abhors sin and wickedness and evil and rebellion, and so Christ was a satisfaction of the wrath of God.
• 31:20
  Emeal Zwayne: He's a propitiation for our sins so that we can be reconciled to God again.
• 31:26
  Emeal Zwayne: That's right.
• 31:27
  Mark Spence: So either Jesus is your substitute, who suffered in himself the wrath of the Father, and in so doing he satisfied the demands of the law, or you have to do it yourself.
• 31:38
  Mark Spence: The choice that lies before you on the table is either Jesus suffered in himself the wrath of the Father, and in so doing he satisfied the demands of the law, or you have to do it yourself in God's prison, which is a place called hell, not in Christless eternity right, not a place where we begin to think it's not going to be a very happy or joyous place.
• 32:00
  Mark Spence: No, it is a place that is set up for torment.
• 32:05
  Mark Spence: It is eternal because our sin is against an eternal God and it requires an eternal punishment.
• 32:13
  Ray Comfort: We can't forget that Boy.
• 32:15
  Ray Comfort: A day doesn't go by when I almost have my breath taken away by the horror of it.
• 32:19
  Ray Comfort: We're for knowing the terror of the Lord.
• 32:22
  Ray Comfort: We persuade men, and it's something that much of the church seems to have forgotten.
• 32:25
  Ray Comfort: I watched a well-known, wonderful Bible teacher at a massive university and as they panned the crowd, it was just as far as you could see and I just said why aren't we seeing revival If we've got literally millions of Christians in this country?
• 32:42
  Ray Comfort: Why aren't we seeing revival?
• 32:43
  Ray Comfort: It's because we've forgotten the terror of the Lord.
• 32:46
  Ray Comfort: We just rather learn apologetics and blah, blah, blah, rather than go out in a desperation seek men because they're dying.
• 32:55
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, Jesus saved died to save us from the wrath of God.
• 33:00
  Oscar Navarro: I think that truth is more at risk than many others right now.
• 33:06
  Oscar Navarro: I mean, you hear people say Jesus died to save us from our sins.
• 33:09
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, okay, Jesus died to save us from poverty.
• 33:13
  Oscar Navarro: People believe that Jesus died to save us from the sickness of humanity, but none of that is as true as Jesus died to save us from the righteous wrath of God.
• 33:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And when you eliminate the righteous wrath of God in your proclamation of the gospel, then it diminishes the love and the grace of God, and what is he saving me from, you know?
• 33:38
  Emeal Zwayne: So that's why I said earlier that it's so divine.
• 33:42
  Emeal Zwayne: When you weave the entire tapestry of the whole gospel message together, from fall to redemption, it's unbelievable.
• 33:51
  Mark Spence: Let me say this, the antithesis.
• 33:53
  Mark Spence: Now, when you fail to grasp this, when you fail, you're going to think that God is now punishing you for sins that you commit, because when Jesus died on the cross, he said it is finished, so he paid in full.
• 34:13
  Mark Spence: Tele-tsdi it is finished, paid in full.
• 34:15
  Mark Spence: When you fail to grasp the full wrath of the Father coming down upon Jesus, you begin to think you have something to add to your salvation.
• 34:23
  Mark Spence: And when you blow it, you're gonna think God is angry with me and he's now going to punish me.
• 34:28
  Mark Spence: And let me say this the Father will never punish his children because he punished his son, jesus, on the cross.
• 34:36
  Mark Spence: Now, this is entirely different from chastisement and correcting whom he loves.
• 34:41
  Mark Spence: He's going to chastise, he's going to correct you, he's gonna do whatever it takes to put you on that straight and narrow path, but he will never punish his children because he already punished his son.
• 34:52
  Ray Comfort: Besides, he doesn't see our sins.
• 34:54
  Ray Comfort: That's right.
• 34:54
  Ray Comfort: You know, when I have communion I deliberately let myself go over my sinful past.
• 34:59
  Ray Comfort: There's things that I would never let my best friend know about, that were in my mind before I was saved.
• 35:04
  Ray Comfort: I'm not telling you and I just let them run past.
• 35:09
  Ray Comfort: There's no condemnation, but I know God doesn't.
• 35:12
  Ray Comfort: He's forgotten my sins, he's removed them as far as the cast them to see as forgetfulness.
• 35:18
  Ray Comfort: But it reminds me of his mercy and what happened on that cross, and that makes my heart burst with gratitude, which is the fuel that drives me to do as well.
• 35:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen.
• 35:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, in connection with the verse that I read from 1 John 2, that he's a propitiation for our sins.
• 35:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Preceding that, john says these things were written to you that you may not sin, but if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, jesus Christ the righteous.
• 35:40
  Emeal Zwayne: And then he says and he is a propitiation for our sins, he's the advocate, and that word means one who comes alongside to help.
• 35:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Why can he advocate for us?
• 35:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Because he's our propitiation, so when we sin, he can come alongside and say Father, I paid for that.
• 35:54
  Emeal Zwayne: It's paid in full, it's covered.
• 35:56
  Emeal Zwayne: And that's what just saddens me beyond description when I think of those who are living under a false gospel.
• 36:04
  Emeal Zwayne: It's just what I mean.
• 36:06
  Emeal Zwayne: You can imagine Luther, right when his eyes were finally open to the righteous, will live by faith, and it was like it's him.
• 36:15
  Emeal Zwayne: He did it and his righteousness is imputed to me.
• 36:17
  Emeal Zwayne: And when I sin, that sin is paid for.
• 36:20
  Emeal Zwayne: He's my advocate, he's my propitiation.
• 36:22
  Ray Comfort: No longer whipped by an evil conscience, immediately cleansed by the blood of Christ.
• 36:28
  Ray Comfort: So you just relax and grace.
• 36:30
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, to be restored to fellowship with God is propitiation, amen.
• 36:34
  Oscar Navarro: So here we are talking about the propitiation which requires Christ to go up on that cross and suffer.
• 36:40
  Oscar Navarro: What is it about Christ's suffering?
• 36:45
  Oscar Navarro: What are some important aspects of the fact that here is the incarnate God, fully man, fully God, and he's suffering.
• 36:55
  Ray Comfort: I think that Christ is one suffer for sins, that just for the unjust, he might bring us to God, and I think the most wonderful thing that humanity could ever hear are those words it is finished, the dead has been paid, you're free from condemnation, the doors of everlasting life have been opened and you're welcomed into eternity by the God that loves your soul.
• 37:13
  Ray Comfort: And so his suffering wasn't full.
• 37:16
  Ray Comfort: Anyway, we often hear that Christ died for our sins, but that's not the total truth.
• 37:20
  Ray Comfort: Christ must suffer.
• 37:22
  Ray Comfort: If he had to die for our sins, he'd just need to come and say pass me that sword, it's all over.
• 37:27
  Ray Comfort: But Christ must suffer, and it's a horrible.
• 37:32
  Ray Comfort: I remember I went to see the Passion of the Christ, sat between two Christian brothers, and I was embarrassed that I went into hyperventilating, just I couldn't breathe when I looked at that cross, but in my heart I was crying for me he dies.
• 37:43
  Ray Comfort: It was so real and that portrayed it in all its bloody horror.
• 37:48
  Mark Spence: Yeah, he was appointed to suffer.
• 37:50
  Mark Spence: He was known as the suffering servant.
• 37:53
  Mark Spence: And being appointed to suffer, there was nothing that was left out from the divine hand of God's wrath.
• 38:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and today, when you hear so much of the prosperity gospel preaching, one of the key messages that you hear is that Christians shouldn't suffer.
• 38:13
  Mark Spence: Right.
• 38:13
  Emeal Zwayne: And when you look at 1 Peter 221, when it was talking to servants and their masters, it says look, christ suffered for us.
• 38:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Leave on us an example to follow in his steps.
• 38:23
  Emeal Zwayne: And in Acts 14, 22, it says through much tribulation you will enter the kingdom of God.
• 38:29
  Emeal Zwayne: And so oftentimes we have to understand Christ was a forerunner, in a sense.
• 38:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Now we're not suffering for the purpose of the redemption of others, but we suffer according to the will of God.
• 38:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Scripture talks about and we're called to entrust ourselves to him in that regard.
• 38:47
  Emeal Zwayne: And so that's a part of the experience and there's an association with the sufferings of Christ.
• 38:52
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean oftentimes, when I'm sick or I hurt myself, I'll immediately try in my mind to cast my gaze upon the cross and imagine what Christ endured in my place and recognize how so much, far worse hell is the hell that he's redeemed me and saved me from.
• 39:08
  Ray Comfort: And so that's when I realized I'm a wimp.
• 39:09
  Ray Comfort: I just stubbed my toe and it's like oh God, take me home.
• 39:12
  Ray Comfort: The pain is unbearable.
• 39:14
  Ray Comfort: I mean, it really is a proper stubbed toe, or a hit thumb with a hammer, where you really hit it properly.
• 39:19
  Ray Comfort: It's, it's no, it's unbearable.
• 39:22
  Ray Comfort: And yet he bore the suffering for the sin of the world.
• 39:26
  Ray Comfort: We can't begin to imagine the absolute horror.
• 39:30
  Ray Comfort: And it makes because Sam and he makes sense that what he went through.
• 39:35
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it wasn't just a physical suffering, we wouldn't be doing it just as talking about the physical suffering, scripture goes far beyond that in saying that in some mysterious way, he became sin.
• 39:47
  Oscar Navarro: He took on the fullness of the wrath of God.
• 39:51
  Oscar Navarro: His suffering was a hellish suffering and and you you know that is just something that you'll spend internally just praising God over.
• 40:01
  Mark Spence: You know, you begin to bring this along the journey, down the road, inside your book.
• 40:05
  Mark Spence: Right, god has a wonderful plan for your life.
• 40:07
  Mark Spence: You see what awaits that person who has counted the cost, repented and placed their trust in Jesus.
• 40:14
  Mark Spence: Now the promises that await them are trials, tribulation, persecution and suffering.
• 40:19
  Mark Spence: We fail to hear that from the modern day pulpit.
• 40:23
  Mark Spence: We fail to hear that from the modern day evangelist.
• 40:25
  Mark Spence: We fail to hear them say count the cost.
• 40:28
  Mark Spence: Right, jesus didn't.
• 40:30
  Mark Spence: Jesus came to bring a sword.
• 40:32
  Mark Spence: Right, you're gonna have children that are gonna rise up against their parents and the parents their children.
• 40:38
  Mark Spence: If you look at it, what Jesus went through?
• 40:40
  Mark Spence: And now there's a call for us to die to self, to not necessarily seek after the white picket fence and greater and bigger barns.
• 40:49
  Mark Spence: But what must I do to walk in the work which God has prepared beforehand?
• 40:54
  Mark Spence: And I'll tell you, inside that journey, it's going to include the aforementioned trials, tribulations, persecution, temptation.
• 41:02
  Mark Spence: In fact, if you even desire to live godly in Christ Jesus not even if you are, but if you desire to live godly in Christ Jesus you will suffer persecution.
• 41:11
  Mark Spence: We mustn't forget that and that's part of the count, the cost message that we share.
• 41:16
  Mark Spence: That's part of the gospel message.
• 41:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Think about the disciples rejoice that they were counted worthy to suffer.
• 41:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Shame for his name.
• 41:23
  Emeal Zwayne: You know that was their attitude.
• 41:25
  Emeal Zwayne: It wasn't.
• 41:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey God, why would you let us go through this?
• 41:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Why are you allowing us to be persecuted and beaten?
• 41:31
  Emeal Zwayne: We're worthy, wow.
• 41:32
  Emeal Zwayne: He counts us worthy to suffer this.
• 41:34
  Ray Comfort: Well, I've got a long way to go.
• 41:36
  Ray Comfort: To be honest, I run from suffering.
• 41:38
  Ray Comfort: If I was going to be beaten up and I saw a basket, I'd ask guys to low me down a wall and a basket so I could escape.
• 41:44
  Ray Comfort: You know I really would.
• 41:45
  Ray Comfort: But yeah, we can't get away from it.
• 41:49
  Ray Comfort: There is suffering as a Christian because you deny yourself daily and if you live God in Christ Jesus, someone's going to hate you for his name's sake.
• 41:56
  Ray Comfort: If any man suffers, a Christian and bear it patiently, this is thankworthy of God.
• 42:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and we don't glorify it by any means or seek it out.
• 42:03
  Emeal Zwayne: But at the same time, as scripture says, a servant isn't greater than his master and our master endured it.
• 42:10
  Emeal Zwayne: And so we understand and part.
• 42:12
  Emeal Zwayne: It's a part of the fall right and the sinful order of the world that we live in, but at the same time we know that God uses it for the good and he glorifies himself through it.
• 42:23
  Oscar Navarro: And scripture talks about different types of suffering.
• 42:25
  Oscar Navarro: There's a suffering for the sake of persecution, and then there's just life suffering.
• 42:29
  Oscar Navarro: We live in a fallen and broken world, and our bodies are fallen and broken, loved ones die, bank accounts go to zero and beyond, and so you get this question from atheists, from skeptics of kind of you know, while there's suffering in the world, and so, therefore, god is either not all powerful, not all good, yet the suffering of Christ is the only worldview in which God, the Creator, not only allows suffering, but he himself has suffered, and that's the beauty of the gospel, is that he has suffered so that one day all suffering would end.
• 43:04
  Ray Comfort: And it's a principle of nature too.
• 43:06
  Ray Comfort: You look around, it's the storms that make the tree send its roots in deep, and so when we come under tribulation, it does establish strength and unsetilice.
• 43:14
  Ray Comfort: And we have to say, and I don't like saying it, but with the psalmist, it was good for me that I was afflicted and I might learn your statutes.
• 43:21
  Ray Comfort: And so you look back at the times of trials.
• 43:24
  Ray Comfort: That's when you came closer to the Lord, that's when you said I don't like this world.
• 43:29
  Ray Comfort: I love you, lord, and I'm on my knees before you and please help me.
• 43:32
  Ray Comfort: And we draw close to God in suffering.
• 43:34
  Mark Spence: And it makes us homesick for a home we've never been to.
• 43:36
  Mark Spence: So our roots don't go down deep here on earth.
• 43:38
  Mark Spence: You know we're currently looking for a house.
• 43:40
  Mark Spence: I told my wife I go, honey, listen, we're not looking for a home, we're homesick for a home we've never been to and the house is all of them.
• 43:48
  Mark Spence: They belong to God.
• 43:49
  Mark Spence: So where is the temporary residency where you would like us to dwell and we're that we might walk in the work which you prepared beforehand for your ultimate glory and for our good?
• 43:59
  Emeal Zwayne: And you think.
• 43:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Philippians 129, for to you, as it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake.
• 44:08
  Emeal Zwayne: It's been granted, appointed is actually what we're used right there for his sake.
• 44:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean talk about how that flies in the face of the modern gospel right.
• 44:17
  Emeal Zwayne: But that's what scripture says.
• 44:20
  Ray Comfort: Modern gospel's Bible must be pretty thin.
• 44:26
  Oscar Navarro: Next question is what makes the resurrection of Jesus in the resurrection of other historic figures different?
• 44:35
  Ray Comfort: What other historic?
• 44:36
  Ray Comfort: figures are we talking about?
• 44:37
  Ray Comfort: I mean, are we talking about people in scripture like those that were thrown under the bones of Elisha, etc.
• 44:43
  Ray Comfort: Risen from the dead, or Moses body not being found, etc.
• 44:47
  Ray Comfort: I think every historical figure compared to Jesus of Nazareth is like a blown out candle compared to the sun at noon day.
• 44:57
  Ray Comfort: There's no comparison between who he is and who historical figures are.
• 45:03
  Ray Comfort: They're just men.
• 45:03
  Ray Comfort: This is God manifest in the flesh.
• 45:05
  Ray Comfort: I love the way a great preacher once said that God prepared himself a body and then filled that body as a hand fills the cloth, the express image of the invisible God.
• 45:17
  Mark Spence: We must highlight the fact that Jesus didn't just have the ability to lay down his life, he had the authority.
• 45:23
  Mark Spence: He had the power of the authority to rise himself up from the dead.
• 45:28
  Mark Spence: No other historical figure had the ability to do that.
• 45:31
  Mark Spence: Anybody that was risen from the grave was through the power of God.
• 45:37
  Mark Spence: Somebody once said, ray, as you were saying earlier, when he said Lazarus, come forth.
• 45:40
  Mark Spence: The reason why he said Lazarus, because if he didn't say Lazarus, everybody what?
• 45:45
  Mark Spence: He came forth from the grave.
• 45:47
  Mark Spence: Jesus had the authority not just to lay down his life, but to raise it back up.
• 45:53
  Ray Comfort: Not only that.
• 45:53
  Ray Comfort: If anyone said that they're crazy, they just didn't even say it.
• 46:00
  Ray Comfort: Because you go around saying I have power to raise my body from the dead, you're going to be put in a mental home.
• 46:05
  Ray Comfort: And never a man spoke like this man.
• 46:07
  Ray Comfort: Never a man said the things that this man said.
• 46:09
  Ray Comfort: I'm the resurrection and the life, he that believes in me, though he dies.
• 46:12
  Ray Comfort: Yet surely live, malphanot at this, for the hour is coming and all that are in the grave shall hear my voice.
• 46:17
  Ray Comfort: Never a man spoke like that man.
• 46:20
  Mark Spence: You know, the resurrection is the exclamation point to Jesus dying on the cross and saying that he has the ability to forgive sins.
• 46:30
  Mark Spence: And there is no other world view, no other world religion that can boast of having a resurrected savior, and Christianity is the only true story where the hero dies for the villain.
• 46:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and that's what I was going to say.
• 46:45
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, the contrast between Christ and any other historical figure was that he rose again from the dead and that he verified all that he said.
• 46:55
  Emeal Zwayne: But we have to understand too, as Peter talks about, that he has begotten us again through the resurrection of Christ from the dead.
• 47:02
  Emeal Zwayne: So his resurrection is tied into our regeneration and it was again the demonstration of the fact that he had power over death and the grave and that he truly was the Son of the Living God.
• 47:16
  Ray Comfort: And one thing I just love meditating on is that the most profound sound ever heard in the universe was the tiny beat of the heart, the Son of God, in that grave, that first.
• 47:27
  Ray Comfort: That resounded throughout the universe, because that meant the sacrifice was accepted by the Father everlasting life as a free gift to humanity.
• 47:38
  Emeal Zwayne: And if Christ is not raised from the dead, like Paul said, we are still in our sins.
• 47:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Of all people, we are most hopeless.
• 47:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, our life is vain, yeah.
• 47:50
  Ray Comfort: And so we still have a good time anyway.
• 47:53
  Mark Spence: Right Now.
• 47:53
  Mark Spence: Jesus said I'm the resurrection in the life.
• 47:55
  Mark Spence: He who believes in me, though he may die, he shall live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
• 48:03
  Mark Spence: I like the whole thought of Jesus paid a debt he did not owe.
• 48:07
  Mark Spence: Because we owed a debt we could never pay.
• 48:10
  Mark Spence: So God became something he never was and that is a man, so that we can become something we never were in the side of the Father, and that is righteous.
• 48:20
  Mark Spence: Adam was not righteous before the Father.
• 48:23
  Mark Spence: He had a clean slate, but he wasn't righteous.
• 48:27
  Mark Spence: He didn't have this righteousness that was required, so that's great guys.
• 48:31
  Oscar Navarro: Thank you so much.
• 48:32
  Oscar Navarro: The next question is incredibly important, often overlooked and forgotten or not talked about, which is he is not just resurrected, but he has ascended.
• 48:42
  Oscar Navarro: And so what does that mean, and why is it so important to the gospel that Christ has ascended?
• 48:48
  Mark Spence: Yeah, well, obviously that refers to the bodily, the physical bodily taking up of Jesus into the heavens to be at the right hand of the Father.
• 48:57
  Mark Spence: Now, why is that so key?
• 48:59
  Mark Spence: So, jesus, when he became a man, he came to serve a purpose.
• 49:04
  Mark Spence: This demonstrates, when he was ascended, that it signaled the end of his earthly ministry, which also leads to the fact that it was a successful it was a very successful journey that Jesus had, so the period of his human limitation was at an end and that he had come to do all that he came to do.
• 49:27
  Mark Spence: That it was ultimately accomplished and it came to that end.
• 49:32
  Mark Spence: So it marked the heavenly return of Jesus.
• 49:37
  Mark Spence: As he's going back up to heaven, he's now going to be glorified with the Father.
• 49:42
  Mark Spence: Now we see that he had a taste of that glory on the Mount of Transfiguration, but ultimately, the glory that was due to Jesus is now given at that point when Jesus is ascending into heaven.
• 49:57
  Mark Spence: So what is he doing?
• 49:58
  Mark Spence: Now?
• 49:58
  Mark Spence: He goes to prepare a place for us.
• 50:01
  Mark Spence: Now, this is the key part, and this is what I think people are missing more than anything.
• 50:07
  Mark Spence: Why the ascension is so important.
• 50:08
  Mark Spence: It indicates the beginning of his new work as the high priest, not standing, not pacing.
• 50:18
  Mark Spence: He is sitting at the right hand of the Father because it is paid in full, there is no other work to be done, and the veil is now torn, not from bottom to top, but from top to bottom, signifying that when Jesus died on that cross, when he shed his blood, the sacrifice was acceptable to the Father.
• 50:40
  Mark Spence: Now Jesus shed his blood at least two other times that we know of, when he was here on the earthly ministry.
• 50:45
  Mark Spence: Right, we had the circumcision and we also have.
• 50:48
  Mark Spence: He sweat as if you were great drops of blood.
• 50:51
  Mark Spence: But that's not what it means.
• 50:52
  Mark Spence: When there must be a shedding of blood for the remission of sins, there must be a shedding of blood that leads to death.
• 50:59
  Mark Spence: We can't forget that.
• 51:00
  Mark Spence: So the shedding of blood, it leads to death.
• 51:03
  Mark Spence: Jesus rises again.
• 51:05
  Mark Spence: Many eyewitnesses see him, and then he ascends into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, to ultimately demonstrate to the Father, and he shows his scars.
• 51:17
  Mark Spence: Listen, I'm here.
• 51:19
  Mark Spence: I did the work.
• 51:20
  Mark Spence: I paid a debt I did not owe, because they owed a debt they could never pay, and this is why the ascension was so important to sit at the right hand of the Father.
• 51:28
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, jesus lives, rules and present tense reigns.
• 51:33
  Oscar Navarro: He ascended.
• 51:36
  Oscar Navarro: The fact that he ascended is proof that Christ is King On earth.
• 51:40
  Oscar Navarro: Men mocked him, but now, right now, in heaven, angels adorn him.
• 51:45
  Oscar Navarro: He is the King that is reigning.
• 51:47
  Oscar Navarro: Currently, I think sometimes we live as though the King is on a hunting trip, that he's off somewhere and not really ruling and reigning.
• 51:56
  Oscar Navarro: But right now, today, christ reigns, and that's why the ascension is so important to talk about.
• 52:03
  Emeal Zwayne: And you consider the fact that and I think this is often overlooked but he lives.
• 52:08
  Emeal Zwayne: He's at the right hand of the Father now and he lives to ever make intercession for us.
• 52:13
  Emeal Zwayne: That's amazing to think that he ascended and now he stands and intercedes on our behalf.
• 52:19
  Emeal Zwayne: I love it when people pray for me In fact, it's one of the most coveted things and people know that when someone says, hey, I'm gonna pray for you, I don't just take it lightly like, oh, I often think on it and there have been many occasions in my life where I've sensed the prayers of God's people being used.
• 52:33
  Emeal Zwayne: But Jesus is praying for me, he's interceding on my behalf before the Father and that's tied to his ascension.
• 52:42
  Ray Comfort: So I talk about the ascension, but not so deeply theological.
• 52:45
  Ray Comfort: We often see pictures of Jesus ascending up to heaven like be me up, scotty, up like that.
• 52:51
  Ray Comfort: But it was nothing like that.
• 52:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Because, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no Star Trek.
• 52:56
  Ray Comfort: The disciples were gazing up in the heavens and the angels or angel came and said Menegali, why are you gazing up to heaven?
• 53:02
  Ray Comfort: The same Jesus will come in like manner.
• 53:05
  Ray Comfort: So he's coming.
• 53:06
  Ray Comfort: How's he coming in like manner?
• 53:07
  Ray Comfort: He's coming in power and clouds and great glory.
• 53:10
  Ray Comfort: Therefore, when he ascended, if he's coming in like manners which he ascended, he would have ascended in power and clouds and great glory, and not the be me up Scotty thing.
• 53:19
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, I know we're wrapping up here, oscar I just kind of wanted to summarize a few thoughts on Jesus, because he's who we're talking about and I can't think of a greater topic to ever discuss as human beings.
• 53:31
  Emeal Zwayne: But you think of what Philip Schaft said about Jesus.
• 53:34
  Emeal Zwayne: He said this Jesus of Nazareth, without money and arms, conquered more millions in Alexander, caesar, muhammad and Napoleon.
• 53:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Without science and learning.
• 53:41
  Emeal Zwayne: He shed more light on things human and divine than all scholars and philosophers combined.
• 53:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Without the eloquence of schools, he spoke such words of life as were never spoken before or since and produced effects which lie beyond the reach of orator or poet.
• 53:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Without writing a single line, he set more pens in motion and furnished themes for more sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art and songs of praise than the whole army of great men of ancient modern times.
• 54:05
  Emeal Zwayne: So we broke it down theologically today, but let's remember that Jesus is our savior and our redeemer and we get to have that intimate, personal, close relationship with him.
• 54:18
  Emeal Zwayne: And years ago I penned this poem and for anyone who's listening, whether you're a believer or not, I wanna encourage you to remember all that Jesus was, to focus on the life that he lived and again to remember the purpose of it.
• 54:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I have a valiant hero who one day rescued me.
• 54:34
  Emeal Zwayne: He found me bound and bondage and chose to set me free, although he knew the greatness of the price he'd have to pay.
• 54:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Without a hesitation he gave his life away.
• 54:43
  Emeal Zwayne: I could not understand it, and still I do not know why he treated me as friend when I had treated him as foe.
• 54:49
  Emeal Zwayne: If only you would meet him, you'd see that he is true and he'd become your hero and gladly rescue you.
• 54:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Come now, adore his beauty.
• 54:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Observe his pleasant ways.
• 54:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Sit silently and listen and fix a steady gaze.
• 55:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Hear him speak his gentle words that calm the raging heart.
• 55:05
  Emeal Zwayne: See him mend and heal the lives that once were torn apart.
• 55:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Hear his sayings of wisdom.
• 55:10
  Emeal Zwayne: See his brilliant joys.
• 55:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Observe the great and violent hate his holy love destroys.
• 55:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Come and see humility that cannot be compared, selfless generosity that gave and never spared.
• 55:22
  Emeal Zwayne: See compassion when he wept and passion when he prayed.
• 55:26
  Emeal Zwayne: See the spotless righteousness he constantly displayed.
• 55:30
  Emeal Zwayne: He truly is a hero, and I'm glad that he is mine.
• 55:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords divine.
• 55:40
  Ray Comfort: Amen, and that was all by memory.
• 55:41
  Ray Comfort: For those of you who are listening, an old memory, that's wonderful.
• 55:45
  Ray Comfort: Thank you so much.
• 55:46
  Ray Comfort: The A through Z yeah, go on, do it.
• 55:47
  Ray Comfort: Go on, do it by memory.
• 55:49
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, let's see if I can remember it.
• 55:50
  Emeal Zwayne: So in scripture we know that Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega, which means the beginning and the end, literally the A and the Z.
• 55:57
  Emeal Zwayne: And so years ago Ray actually sent this to me and I committed it to memory.
• 56:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't even know who the author is, but it goes like this, beginning with A to the author, he's an altogether lovely one.
• 56:08
  Emeal Zwayne: To the builder, he's a chief cornerstone.
• 56:09
  Emeal Zwayne: To the chef, he's a bread of life.
• 56:11
  Emeal Zwayne: To the doctor, he's a great physician.
• 56:12
  Emeal Zwayne: To the educator, he's a master teacher.
• 56:14
  Emeal Zwayne: To the florist, he's a rose of Sharon in the lily of the valley.
• 56:17
  Emeal Zwayne: To the geologist, he's a rock of ages.
• 56:19
  Emeal Zwayne: To the horticulturist, he's a true vine.
• 56:21
  Emeal Zwayne: To the intellectual, he's a wisdom of God.
• 56:22
  Emeal Zwayne: To the jeweler, he's the head of this church, which is a pearl of great price.
• 56:25
  Emeal Zwayne: To the king, he's a prince of peace.
• 56:27
  Emeal Zwayne: To the lawyer, he's a judge of all the earth.
• 56:29
  Emeal Zwayne: To the manufacturer, he's a creator of all things.
• 56:31
  Emeal Zwayne: To the newsman, he's a glad tidings of great joy.
• 56:33
  Emeal Zwayne: To the occultist in search of the light, he's a light of the world.
• 56:36
  Emeal Zwayne: To the philanthropist, he's a gift of God.
• 56:38
  Emeal Zwayne: To the queen, he's a king of kings.
• 56:39
  Emeal Zwayne: To the rabbi, he's a messiah.
• 56:41
  Emeal Zwayne: To the scholar, he's a truth.
• 56:42
  Emeal Zwayne: To the theologian, he's an author and the finisher of our faith.
• 56:44
  Emeal Zwayne: To the undertaker, he's a resurrection in the life.
• 56:46
  Emeal Zwayne: To the waiter, he's a one who came not to be served but to serve.
• 56:52
  Emeal Zwayne: To the extra technician, he's a word of God before whom all things are naked and bare.
• 56:55
  Emeal Zwayne: To the youth, he is a life, and to the zealot, he's a son of God for whom life is worth living.
• 57:01
  Ray Comfort: And you remember that by one unpronounceable acronym.
• 57:04
  Ray Comfort: I would like to do a little wrap up too, if I may.
• 57:09
  Ray Comfort: The Bible says of Jesus if any man loves not the Lord, Jesus Christ, let it be anathema.
• 57:13
  Ray Comfort: So the whole of humanity, their fate, depends on what they do with Jesus.
• 57:19
  Ray Comfort: And I'll never forget I'd been a Christian about four or five days, and before I was a Christian I'd signed my name just when I was doodling.
• 57:26
  Ray Comfort: Signed my name, signed my name, and I just found myself writing the name Jesus and I thought what is going?
• 57:31
  Ray Comfort: on here the Holy Spirit will speak of me.
• 57:34
  Ray Comfort: And one thing that so sits on my heart is an experience I had.
• 57:38
  Ray Comfort: I got a movie called the Sun Worshippers.
• 57:41
  Ray Comfort: I'd been a Christian about a week and I had these surface 330 surface of gathering to watch a movie I'd made Waybay, then called A Place of Her Own.
• 57:48
  Ray Comfort: I had this 16 millimeter movie called the Sun Worshippers, 30 minute documentary about the Jesus revolution in California, so I planned to show it to these surfers after my surf movie 150 ran out of the room as soon as I mentioned the name Jesus.
• 58:01
  Ray Comfort: But I showed it to myself on the wall of our home and as I looked at the wall, right at the end of the movie, it had the scripture and you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
• 58:11
  Ray Comfort: And it was like I hit the wall because I didn't know I was looking for truth.
• 58:16
  Ray Comfort: There was a cry in my heart and the only analogy I can think of is that it's like a baby who's first born taken from the womb and it immediately screams.
• 58:25
  Ray Comfort: And you get a microphone and say, excuse me, baby, what are you screaming about?
• 58:28
  Ray Comfort: And the baby says I don't know, I have no idea, I'm just screaming.
• 58:33
  Ray Comfort: So you take that newborn and put it on the breast and it circles and as you get up to it you say excuse me, how do you feel now?
• 58:39
  Ray Comfort: The baby says this was what I was looking for.
• 58:41
  Ray Comfort: I had no idea because I'd never experienced it, and that's my testimony.
• 58:47
  Ray Comfort: I had a cry in my heart for truth and I had no idea what I was looking for.
• 58:51
  Ray Comfort: And the book of Acts speaks of men groping to find God.
• 58:55
  Ray Comfort: The understanding is dark and they're alienated from the life of God through the ignorance in them because of the blindness of their heart.
• 59:01
  Ray Comfort: And God, by His grace, takes us to the truth, gives us light and takes us out of darkness into His glorious kingdom.
• 59:08
  Oscar Navarro: Amen, thank you so much.
• 59:09
  Oscar Navarro: Thank you EZ, ray and Mark for this, and thank you for our partners for listening in.
• 59:13
  Oscar Navarro: We hope and we pray that this is serving you guys, inspiring and equipping you in proclaiming the great gospel.
• 59:24
  Mark Spence: God's Grace.
• 59:25
  Mark Spence: God's Grace.
• 59:28
  Emeal Zwayne: God's Grace.
• 59:29
  Emeal Zwayne: How could we ever talk enough about Jesus?
• 59:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I seriously like to think of the difference.
• 59:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I think you, oscar, especially having been an atheist the switch of the value of the name of Jesus to you, right, I mean from just disdain Christians Jesus to suddenly the name above all names for you.
• 59:47
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, you come to realize that the entire created order, all of the cosmos, is centered on one person that was born 2000 years ago in the Middle East.
• 59:56
  Oscar Navarro: Or, even more personal, my entire life is dictated by this man, god Jesus of Nazareth.
• 1:00:04
  Oscar Navarro: Amen, the God man.
• 1:00:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, there you have it, friends.
• 1:00:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget to check out so many lines, so few.
• 1:00:09
  Emeal Zwayne: Daniels, the Living Waters Mug, the Evan Study Bible, livingwaterscom podcastlivingwaterscom with your thoughts and comments, and remember to please subscribe on all the podcast platforms, leave a comment and tell your friends about it.
• 1:00:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 1:00:25
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
• 1:00:29
  Emeal Zwayne: The ultimate cure still, yes, still for insomnia.
• 1:00:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Ooh, more expense fancy.