Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Women in Black: Ghosts Stories & Dark Urban Legends

Transcript

Women in Black: Ghosts Stories & Dark Urban Legends · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Yakima's first ghost was reported in the Yakima Herald in 1897.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: She was said to be a soundless, fast, tall figure
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in a black dress.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: A fast ghost is very scary to me.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I know. And soundless, too.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Like, so you're really only aware if you're seeing that
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: out of the corner of your eye.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And it gets more spooky because people also claim to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: have seen her shapeshift into a Huge black hog.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Stop.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Earning her the name Hog Devil. Hi, Taylin.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Hi, Cassie.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Hi, creepy people. Hello. Did anyone notice that's not Caitlyn?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Caitlyn's not here today. She said it's October and she
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't like spooky episodes and it was just too much
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: for her to handle. So she chickened out.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: And she's not going to be here today. Yeah.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And she's not here to defend herself. But this is
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: P & W Haunts and Homicides where we chat about
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. Or the P & W if you're nasty.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not as nasty as Caitlin.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Not yet. We haven't made you that nasty yet, but
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you're getting there. Cool. So before we start the actual episode,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I like to bring up things like, you know, Pacific
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Northwest things that I may come across in my daily adventures.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: And so I'm staying in downtown Portland right now. I'm
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in like an apartment complex thing and there's like sushi
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: right downstairs. So I was picking up takeout sushi and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I see this car go by and it's got flamethrowers
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Like literal flame there was.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Attached yes I have a picture I hope it'll send
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to you I didn't actually get a picture myself because
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I was they were like handing me my takeout as
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: it was rolling by and I was like shit oh
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: my god so I found it online I found someone
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: else's picture online so I just sent it to you
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh so they're like bumping their music there's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a the front also has a flamethrower because there's like
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: two on the back that you can see. There's one
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: on the front and it's like coming out of a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: dragon mouth.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: But why do they look like an ally? I'm not threatened, maybe.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what's up with it,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: but I just thought I was like, okay, I'm in Portland.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Like this is so... I don't know how they don't
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: catch things on fire rolling down the road.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. Like I know Oregon is wet, but surely
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: this is a fire hazard. There's that is how are
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: how is their car not exploding?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. And it's just it's
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: not like a Lamborghini, you guys. It's like a Ford
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Explorer or something like I don't know exactly what I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: can't see what kind of car it is for sure.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: But it's something like that, like an SUV.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And they were recording. It looks like they had a
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: selfie stick and a phone out.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: That is crazy. And maybe they are not an ally.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I just mean like I'm intrigued. I'm curious about these people.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: How are they getting away with that? What is it for?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I have so many questions. That's crazy. Right place, right time,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I guess, for you.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I feel like I need to like find
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: their social media or something. And I don't know.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so that was fun. That was Portland Adventures
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: for this week.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So Portland.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: New segment, so Portland. Okay, so I still have a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: bit of a cold, so I kind of sound gross
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and congested, but you guys have to deal with it.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: At least I'm not like coughing my literal brains out anymore.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: You can lean more into the Phoebe Buffay and lean
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: into the sexy sick voice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think I have. I don't have the sexy
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: sick voice really going on. I have like the nasally snorty.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: One man's sick is another man's sexy.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Gross.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You want me to slobber all over you? Okay. Well,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: are you excited to hear what we're talking about today?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I'm so curious. I've been watching other podcasts today. And
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I found myself getting jealous of the people that just
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: get to sit there and listen. And then I remembered
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I was recording with you today. And I'm like, so excited. Yes.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to be talking about women in black.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Okay. Oh, my God.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm so excited.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: So many questions already.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: It's not like the movie. Is it Lady in Black?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Woman in Black.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Is it Woman in Black with Harry Potter in it?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It's not that one. Okay. We're talking about real ghosts, basically.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. You only hear about the women in white.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I know. So I was so excited to kick off
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: October with... And do like something a little different, not
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: woman in white. We're going woman in black.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Fuck yes.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Because it's emo season. Yes. So we're starting off with
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: one right here in the nasty PNW in Yakima, Washington.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: That's about two hours southeast of Seattle. For those of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you who don't might not know where that is. Have
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you been to Yakima?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Not intentionally. I'm not avoiding it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I accidentally ended up there one day and I didn't
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: want to.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: If I have been there, I've not been aware of
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: it is what I meant to say.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think I have either. I think it's a
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: little too, like I've only been to like Seattle and
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: like the west parts of Washington. I haven't been east.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Yakima's first ghost was reported in the Yakima Herald in 1897.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: She was said to be a soundless, fast, tall figure
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: in a black dress, frightening anyone who spotted her on
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Natchez Avenue.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Natchez Avenue?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Natchez. Yeah, it looks like not Natchez. It's N-A-C-H-E-S, but
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I looked up like local pronunciation and they say Natchez.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: A fast ghost is very scary to me. I know.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And soundless, too.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So you're really only aware if you're seeing that out
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: of the corner of your eye.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: And tall. The whole description is spooky.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: And it gets more spooky because people also claim to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: have seen her shapeshift into a huge black hog. Stop.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Earning her the name Hog Devil.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. Okay. Well, I can't speak for her.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would love to be called
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: hog devil. Maybe I would actually, I think after a
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: certain point.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: If you're like purposely transforming into a hog, I don't know.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: That, oh my God. Okay. I'm going to let you
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: keep going. This is so interesting to me. Okay.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: The other thing I was picturing is like not her
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: shape shifting, but her just crouching and like Running along
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the ground. And I don't know.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: And if she's going so fast, like and if you're
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: not fully able to catch her, maybe. Yeah. That would
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: look like a hog possibly.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because like, I don't know, like a wild black hog.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many of those are like in Washington.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe in 1897 there were. So townspeople formed mobs to
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: try and hunt down this phantom woman hog. Officers promising
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: to arrest her if found. Like, what if she's in
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: hog form, though?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, taking a hog to jail, literally. I honestly, I
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: wouldn't put it past even a small town today. I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: could see that happening.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Like putting handcuffs on a hog.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like an idiom.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Lipstick on a pig. Yeah.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: They did eventually catch a woman dressed in black out
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: at night. She confessed to sneaking out to meet a lover.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Of course, naturally. Was she what the Yakima townspeople were
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: seeing in the streets at night? Or was that just
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: an easier explanation for what people were seeing?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Did she admit? Did she like claim the hog devil identity?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think she did. She just claimed that she
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: had been going out at night to see a lover.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So I don't know how that explains the hog part
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Or could it have been a young prankster dressing in
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: his sister's clothing, intentionally scaring passerbys? Because that also happened. Oh,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: my gosh.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. I'm here for the spooky, but I kind
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: of love that more than it being a ghost.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I know. Just this little boy, like, taking his sister's
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: black dress and running around town.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: It's cute. But yeah, so that did happen as well.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: So we don't know the exact explanation. Was it either
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: these two people or were they just in addition to
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: seeing the hog devil, woman in black? Not a clue.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: But that's that little story from Yakima. That's all the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: info I have.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. I love that. I really hope it
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: was the boy dressing up. And I want it to
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: be a ghost. But I think it would be even
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: better if it was just some little prankster.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But like, how do you explain it being so tall
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and soundly? And because the little boy is not going
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to be soundless. Maybe the lady sneaking out.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But that's a good point.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: They say she's like as fast as the wind to
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like very fast. So I think they're all different things.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're probably right.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I'm here to believe in the hog devil.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: It's definitely an image.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Ooh, Halloween costume.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, so niche. Do you think that when you are
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: shapeshifting like that, as you do as a ghost, do
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: you think you get to choose what animal you're shapeshifting into?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Or do you think it's like, do you think it's
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a kind of assigned thing?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Or something. I don't know. I think if you're, if
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you have the power to shapeshift yourself, like, if you're
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: making that happen, then you would. But if someone, like,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: cursed you, maybe, to transform, then you wouldn't.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: That's a really good point.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So maybe she was cursed. Because I don't know if
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I would choose to be a hog.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not my first choice, for sure. No offense to hogs.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I would be a bat, 100%. No questions.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Like, Oh, that's a good one. That's good. I don't
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: know what I would be. Maybe I would be a hog.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about a couple different women
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: in black from other parts of the country and the world.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Now we're heading to the opposite side of the country,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to the east, to Sleepy Hollow in New York. Oh, lovely.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know enough about Sleepy Hollow. It's just so iconic.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: There's so much imagery that already comes to mind.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. I've never been there. I'm kind of obsessed with it,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: mostly because of the movie with Johnny Depp. That's been
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies since I was a little kid,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: which is creepy, but it's a fact. I just love it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And I loved... I remember... in elementary school the library
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and like reading us a little like kids book of
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: sleepy hollow and i yes just loved it i'm obsessed
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: i don't know why it's a.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Great story i have a memory of the the a
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: book like that and i feel like there was a
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: disney movie like an animated one.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah i think there is yeah like i remember watching Yes,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: headless horsemen, all of that. But we're not here to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: talk about that specifically today.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about something a little different that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you might not have heard of in connection with Sleepy Hollow.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: In 1899, then known as North Tarrytown, was haunted by
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a woman in black. She was spotted roaming the streets
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and even coming out of the cemetery, the spooky Sleepy
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Hollow Cemetery, which I'm dying to go to someday. Her
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: face was veiled, so no one knew who she was,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: but they were scared of her. That was like the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: most like fourth grade writing I've ever done. No one
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: knew who she was, but they were scared of her.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It gets the point across.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, God. I'm not taking it back. The only really
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: bad thing I found that she did was one woman
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: claimed this woman in black threw acid at her.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Which was like apparently back in that day, that was
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: like a thing people did. I hate that. I hate
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that so much. Why? I don't know. Like as an
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: assault on somebody, I don't know why you would do that. Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And then like woman on woman, ghost or not, that's
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: kind of crazy. I know.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe she was just so beautiful. She was jealous or something.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Thankfully, this woman who got the acid thrown on her
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: was okay. But police started searching for this mysterious woman
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in black now because of this assault.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I just had a thought because you said maybe she
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: was just so pretty and the woman in black was jealous.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And now I'm thinking of the woman in black maybe
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: being cursed into being a hog. Maybe there's like a
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: theme here.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Possibly.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: With like vanity and... Ooh, I like that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like that, but I like that theory. Right. Okay,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to read you a little excerpt from SleepyHollowCountry.com
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: where this little article about the woman in black is.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Late one night, two frightened citizens came running into the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: police station sounding the alarm. The woman in black was
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: out and she was in Beekman Walton's yard. Beekman Walton.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: What a name. Chief Minnerly and his constables wasted no
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: time searching for her where a small crowd had gathered.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: She was still and sitting quietly on Walton's woodpile, head
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: turned and silent. Chief Minnerly called out to her and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: told her that her nighttime wanderings were done. No more
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: would she haunt the citizens of North Tarrytown. He was
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: taking her in. Reaching out, he grabbed her arm and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: attempted to pull her up. The figure crumbled under his
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: grasp and what was once a seated figure turned into
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: a constructed effigy of cloth and padding. Her loose fabric
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: arm hung in his hand.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: That is so eerie.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: It is eerie. And at first when I read this,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she just like disappeared. She like melted,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you know? But I guess it was just someone who
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: had made like a scarecrow of the... of a woman
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in black.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Oh gotcha i also thought she vanished.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Right it's spooky but no someone just made this so
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the chief and the townspeople concluded that this was just
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a prank there was no more reports of the woman
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: in black after that night interesting but i was thinking
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: like maybe the prank was based on real events yeah
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Because who threw the acid? Was that victim in on
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the prank? That wasn't like that doesn't seem like a
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: prank you would pull on yourself.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: That's so strange. And then also to make a scarecrow
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: randomly of a woman in black. I don't know how
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: common that was at the time, but that's not the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: first thing I think of when I think of scarecrows.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So like that has to be all connected, right?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like definitely someone made this. I think is a
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: prank like based on the reports of people seeing this. Yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Because also a little figure that's just sitting there on
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: a wood pile is not going to be like chasing
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: people around town and scaring them like that. Unless.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Their imaginations just ran wild. But I don't... I don't know.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: So it was just like a very... an unserious move
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to be like hey there's these reports this woman got
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: acid in her face i'm gonna make a scarecrow and
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: like prank the cops about this yeah nice okay.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: But then that gives them like an explanation like a
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: rational explanation oh it was this the whole time and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: they said there was no more reports of her being
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: seen after that but i'm like well is that because
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the cops and everyone now think it was just a prank.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: So like, why would you report if you did see it?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Like they're not going to believe you now.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. That's really, um, what a confusing
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: time to be alive. It would have been back then.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: You just don't read it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And it was in the newspaper too, which I think
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: is the, like both of these first two stories were
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: in the newspaper just about ghosts. Yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing, though, when I finally go
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: visit Sleepy Hollow. I'm definitely looking out for a woman
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: in black and not just a headless horseman.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So now we're going out of the country. There is
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: an urban legend in Bangkok, the capital of Thailand, if
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you're nasty. The women in black of Wat Samian Nari.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Two women spirits dressed in modern black outfits. So it's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: not like the spooky, like vintage black dress type. Like
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: this is way more modern. No veil. They like to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: catch taxis late at night to Wat Samyan Nari, which
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: is a temple. They are silent the whole car ride
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: until they disappear upon reaching their destination.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Are they always together? Yes. Oh my gosh.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: The legend says that this is two sisters who were
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: hit by a train on their way to their mother's
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: funeral at the temple in the 90s. The 1990s. Some
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: people recall the gruesome story being published in the Khao
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Sot newspaper, but it could not be found in the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: paper's archives. But those only dated back to 1997, so
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, could it have happened before that? Because that's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: super late 90s, so.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. So part of me, like in another life,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I speak like eight languages. And this is one of
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the reasons why I want to because I want to
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: get into the shit that happened in Bangkok and find
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: out what happened to these two women. And I don't
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: know how to read probably a lot of the stuff
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: that I'd be able to find the information. I'm so curious.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: It's frustrating because they have like... their first and last
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: names and obviously if i go to like google them
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: all that comes up is like these stories so i
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: didn't see any like death reports or anything like that
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: for these two women.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Does anything bad happen after they disappear or um yeah
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: i Oh, fuck.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. The most disturbing part of the story is after
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the taxi drivers are left wondering where their passengers went
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and their payment. Oh, yeah. They probably want that. They
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: will then see the women crawling on the tracks because
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: there are train tracks around the temple. But it's just
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: their top halves.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, no.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Because the train did, unfortunately, run them over and cut
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: them in half.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, no.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's real gruesome. And so the men who are
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: just like, okay, where did these women went? They're looking
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: around and they see two women crawling, dragging themselves on
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the train tracks. I would die. I would pee myself
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and die.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And like, I don't know. I don't know
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: here if that happened in this country. I don't know
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: how many people would believe me. You and Caitlin would
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: believe me.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe some of the people in our space would believe me.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: But like, that's not. that would traumatize you. And then
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: who do you talk to about it? Right.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Well, one guy, I didn't really put the full story
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: in because like kind of all the taxi driver stories
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: are a little the same. But one guy, he like
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: passed out in his car when he saw them. And
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: so then he was like waking up to the cops,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: like knocking on his window. And so he told the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: cops what had happened. And they were like, oh, he's
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: just drunk and like passed out in his taxi car.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: That's so rough.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: It's not really something people are likely to believe, especially
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: like nowadays. Maybe if we were back in the 1800s,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: people might have believed it.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Right. It would be in the newspaper.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: But then, you know, someone would make a prank about
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: it and they would blame it on that. So I
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Damn.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So as if that wouldn't be scary enough, one taxi
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: driver stalled on the tracks when he was trying to
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: get away. So he's seeing these women crawling towards him
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: and he's trying to get out of the car because
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: his car won't start. But he realizes he can't. So
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: he's trapped in the car on the train tracks. His
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: car won't start. And he has mutilated ghosts crawling at him. Yeah.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: But finally, he does get the car to start. He
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: gets away before the train comes. So he got away
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: with his life, but he quit his taxi driving job
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: after that.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Well, you would have to.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: You said, fuck that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: You would simply have to. Yeah, never again.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Part of me believes that more, like his believes his
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: story more because he quit his job. Because like, you're
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: not just going to make that up if you wanted
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: to quit. I don't think.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. That would be crazy. And, like,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I felt the anxiety as you're talking about him not
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: being able to get away. We've all had that dream
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: where we are trying to run but can't.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: But can't.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Oh, I would never go back. Never, ever. No.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: All righty. Well, do you want to go back to America?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I guess if we have to.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, if you're making me.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: But we're back on the East Coast again this time
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: at Fort Warren on George's Island in Boston Harbor, which
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I assume is in Boston. Okay.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I would assume. I don't know. I guess I didn't
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: look it up.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Unless it's like a Kansas City, Missouri kind of situation.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: It's adjacent to Boston.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: So basically Boston, yeah?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah. Okay. Boston B-side.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So Fort Warren was built at the beginning of the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Civil War. And it was named after Joseph Warren, a
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: patriot who sent Paul Revere to warn the British to
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: warn to warn the British to warn of the British
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: arrival in the Revolutionary War, which I thought that was
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: kind of cool.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: The famous the British are coming, the British are coming
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: or a different one.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Revere did that, right? That was
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: his thing.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: So this guy Warren sent him to go do that.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was a fun little history nugget
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: for y'all. Fort Warren was a military training camp and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: prison for those against the Union during the Civil War.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: In 1950, it was decommissioned and sold to the state
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of Massachusetts as recreational ground. So this story is about Mrs.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Melanie Lanier. Her husband was a Confederate soldier imprisoned at
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the fort.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Boo.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: She decided to prison break him. Damn. Yeah. So I'm like, dang,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: they went hard. Women. I know. It gets crazy. This
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is crazy. She dressed as a man and used rope
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to hoist herself over the wall. She found her husband
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and some of the other prisoners and they began to
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: dig a tunnel heading towards the prison armory. And their
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: plan was to arm themselves and overthrow the prison to escape.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Dude, okay. I don't want to be on the wrong
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: side of history. But Melanie Lanier, that's pretty hot. I'm sorry.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: That's pretty fucking hot.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I know. It reminds me of like a modern day
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: book or something where like the heroine is like going
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to save her man.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I had mixed feelings too because I'm like, but they
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: were confederates but like yeah this is pretty cool it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: very mulan yeah yeah like dressing as a man oh
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: my gosh or she's the man with amanda bines is
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that the movie yes yeah such a good movie i
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: think if it didn't age well don't judge me yeah
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: She kind of had like some help along the way, too.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't like just her. She had to like
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: hide out, you know, as she like got closer to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: prison breaking her husband. But when they were digging, they
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: were caught by Union guards. And Melanie ended up in
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: a standoff with one of them. It was like an
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: old Western standoff. They both had guns.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: On the East Coast, there was an old Western standoff. OK, cool, cool.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense to everybody?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: No, so they did both have guns. She fired, but
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: instead of hitting the guard, she accidentally hit her husband
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and killed him.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Was it an accident? Are we sure it was an accident?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. She went all the way there.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Did she go all the way there just to kill him?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Probably not.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I really don't think so because Melanie was arrested and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: sentenced to death by hanging for treason.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: That's rough.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: So I don't think She wanted that to happen.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Fair. All around, that sucks.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I know. Her last request was to grant her the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: dignity of dying in women's clothing because she was dressed
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: as a man. Wow. So they found her a simple
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: black gown. She was buried on the island where they
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: say her guilt-ridden spirit still roams.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. Can you pretend that it was for a
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: cause that, you know, we feel more ethically, like, morally
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: okay about?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Can we rewrite the book?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine getting that far and then fucking up
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: that bad at the very end? No. I mean, what
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: are you going to do, like, if you're at a
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: standoff like that? But, like, she tried.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: She shot.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: And then just, oof. That would suck.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: It's like typical man though to like be in the way,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: My bullet didn't hit you. You hit my bullet.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. God, I told you not to stand there like 5,000 times.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, she was pissed then. She was probably so mad.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, God. Why did he do this to me? The
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: only like, good thing I see about it is, like,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: they both are on the other side now.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: So.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They didn't really have to, like, wait too long
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: to be together, I guess. Still sucks.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And now they're on the union side in the afterlife. Right.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Because they came to Jesus. No.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe no Jesus. Wait. No, Jesus isn't the problem. Humans are.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: We should... We should just... dip out of this while
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: we can leave jesus.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Alone so after her death soldiers at the fort saw
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the apparition of a lady in black they would hear
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: her voice in the prison area they witnessed stones rolling
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: across the floor for no reason and once found five
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: footprints in the snow that came from nowhere and went
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: nowhere So that's pretty ominous.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Some soldiers were court-martialed for shooting at nothing, claiming they
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: saw someone dressed in black, and one guard abandoned his
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: post because he was chased by a lady in black.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. like these soldiers are shooting at things
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: and like abandoning their guard shifts because they're seeing a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: lady in black that's crazy i.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Also can we just say like As you're talking through
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: all of these stories in succession, it is kind of
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: crazy the gaslighting powers of these ghosts on people. It's
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: kind of wild.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's like the perk of being a ghost, though. Yeah.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: But there is no record of this woman's death, with
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: it being the Civil War and a woman, a woman
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: accused of treason... It probably would have been like pretty
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: big news.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: But there's no record of it. In fact, the first
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: mention of this story was in a book written by
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: a historian, maybe loose quotes on that, in 1944 with
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the caveat, quote, I herewith offer the reader the legend
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: without the slightest guarantee that any part of it is true,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: end quote.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. So that's, that's gorgeous. I love that.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So basically a historian, he was like a historian, but
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: he kind of added this own, his own legend and
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: flair onto it. He did put the caveat in there. So,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so is it, is it based on like
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: what he had heard though and learned, like kind of
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: like a report secondhand with a little spooky story flair?
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: That's kind of, what I always think but I mean
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I have no way to know for sure yeah it's
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: kind of like that too with like the Shanghai tunnels
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: is totally the guy who wrote the book on it
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that's the first record of it so it's like wasn't
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: there no record because it was shady shit and he
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: had like heard stories passed down from older generations and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: wrote about it or did he just make it all up.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: That's uh Definitely a question, a question for the books,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: the other books that maybe someone else will write someday
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and we'll get real answers because Shanghai tunnels still, I
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: remember learning about those for the first time. And another thing,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I just, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm like,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: this doesn't make, the context I was given was like,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: it was lacking. It was lacking. I was just kind
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: of told like, well, there's just these tunnels and then
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: they would take people for labor. And I there's still
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: so many pieces that are missing from it for me
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: to accept it as it's presented to us, if that
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: makes sense.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: It's a crazy story. And it's like, we've done an
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: episode on it, but I let another podcast kind of
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: cover it because I was very hesitant to cover it
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, I'm literally just going to spoil it
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: for everyone because that's what I like to do. Like
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I do in all these stories. I'm like, well, but
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: this is maybe the other explanation for it. But yeah,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: because I found... When I dug into it super deep,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I found the guy who wrote the books about it.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: He like started all the tours too.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. He's just an influencer. Yeah.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. Like, did he just make it
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: up or is he telling something that actually happened that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: needs to be told? I don't know.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's tricky.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this would change your mind at all.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It's another maybe clue to the puzzle. So The name
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Melanie comes from a Greek word meaning black or dark. Oh,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: that was her name, Melanie.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: What a coincidence.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I know. So did someone, you know, pick that name
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: for a reason? Was that her real name? We don't know. Well,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that's my stories of these women in black for you.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: This is wonderful. I want to see more women in
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: black representation on podcasts. And I mean, I never hear
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it truly is always the woman in white.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Or like a gray lady.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Or a gray lady. Yes. Yes. These are great. The
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Thailand one specifically is very I think that's the most
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: intriguing to me of all these.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I really love that one, too.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: It's so modern.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's presented as an urban legend. But I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like sometimes urban legends might have
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: some truth to them.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Totally. If you had to identify most with one of
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: these women, who do you identify with most?
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to say the one in Sleepy
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Hollow just because I would love to be there and
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: like be the Headless Horseman's girlfriend. And yeah, that's what
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: And when you say the Headless Horseman's, Girlfriend? Do you
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: mean Johnny Depp's girlfriend?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, he was Ichabod Crane.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Was he? I don't know the characters.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yes. I have a huge crush on the Headless Horseman.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: This is so embarrassing. Oh, my God. Okay, my crazy
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: brain right now needs to like look up his name,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: even though I know him well. And you're gonna know
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: who it is. You've never seen?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think I have, actually.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I kind of... Christopher Walken. I didn't even need to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: get there. I didn't get there, but I just remembered
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: it in my brain. Okay, so Christopher Walken. Yes, I
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: have a crush on him. Don't judge me. He's the
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: headless horseman.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not judging you. I'm 100% not judging you. I'm
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: just so surprised. But we've talked about, I think we
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: both like weirdos and weird looking people, which by the way,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: if you have a partner, you can't really tell them
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: that you're attracted to weird looking people because it's either
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: offensive or if you try to say, no, but you're
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: not weird looking, then it sounds like you're saying you're
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: not attracted to them. So don't share that with your partner.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: But this is not that surprising to me. It just
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: caught me off guard. I think that he's in that movie.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: is what's catching me off guard the most because I
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: don't picture him playing a spooky character.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And he does it. Oh, he does it so well.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: You have to watch it. It's like I could live
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in that movie. Just the entire vibe is just me.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I love it. Now I need to find it and
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: watch it tonight.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I kind of want to. I'm surprised I haven't seen it.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I definitely went through a big Johnny Depp phase. And
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I like that story a lot. I'm not sure why
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: it hasn't come across my desk ever.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I always have to do this. I have to like
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: see what year it came out. 99.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Tim Burton. 99.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: So I, yeah, yeah, yes, yes. And Tim Burton. It's
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: like has all of the things. I'm shocked that you
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it. But so I was like 10 years
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: old when this movie came out. So I was probably
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: like 11 by the time it came out on VHS.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Remember just like watching the VHS constantly. Little 11-year-old me
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: just loving gore and Christopher Walken headless. I have problems.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I think that they're lovely problems to have. I want
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the movie that I would rewatch. You want to talk
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: about problems? Was Drop Dead Fred.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. See, I love that movie. And I saw
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: it like very, very young. And then I didn't even
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: like think about it or like see it until I
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: was like 20 again. And I was like, wait, wasn't
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: there a movie about like this thing? And I had
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: like convinced myself that it didn't actually exist and that
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: I had made up this movie until I finally found
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: it again.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and then Phoebe Cates in that. And then
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: what's his name that plays Fred? Was in love with
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: both of them. I was like, I need to be
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: both of them. I want to date both of them.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: This is me as a child. Oh, yes. But I'm
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: just like, and then the movie itself just had so
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: much of everything that I love with the whimsy and
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the absurd.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm getting the tarot. Oh, my God. Do you
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: know what I just realized? This is like actually kind
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of crazy. I brought this tarot deck. called cat full
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of spiders oh and it's by christina ricci and she
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: is also in sleepy hollow.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Stop i love her.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: So much and i also did have a major crush
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: on her as.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Well sam oh wow when did she release this i.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Feel like my mom got it for me for christmas
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: this last.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Year that's awesome i'm curious about the name.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I know cat full of spiders i think it was
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: just spooky Like she might have written about it in
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: the little interpretation book.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, it says. Oh, go ahead.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, I just started reading it. And she mentioned Now
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: and Then, which is like also one of my favorite movies.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen that. I don't know that movie.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: You don't know Now and Then? Oh, my God. I'm
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: making you a list.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Please.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: That one's really good, too. It's like a childhood like.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: coming of age but also like a little spooky they
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: do like tarot and like seance in a in a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: graveyard and it's really.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Good again yeah not sure why this has not come
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: across my desk before i've never heard of that.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Okay write those both down watch them immediately.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely okay what does it say um it says the
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: phrase cat full of spiders comes from a saying ritchie
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: used in her youth to describe feeling anxious or, quote,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: acting crazy, serving as a metaphor for the inner experiences, traumas,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: and moments that shape a person. Still kind of funny. Like,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I wonder, cat full of spiders, like, is it like
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a cat running around like crazy because they are covered
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: in spiders?
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Where they literally have spiders like crawling around inside of them.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Inside them. That's what I picture.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: That's where my brain went first. But I thought that's
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: a little intense. But I think that is where my
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: brain went first as well.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It could be full of like their fur is full
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: of spiders. Yeah.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Neither of them is good. You don't want that. Yeah.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: As much as I do like spiders, I'd rather them
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: not crawl around on me. Especially not a lot of them. Exactly.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be full of spiders.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: No, thank you.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: All right. You want to send me your spooky vibes
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: for the tarot about these women in black?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Sending. I'm going to.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Like hold them on my chest, which is weird, but
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to kind of like fumble through them. And
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: if you're feeling like a certain way, I'll stop.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking where your right hand is, where your,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is that your index finger?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Is it this hand?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right hand. And then.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: It was here.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. Go back, like towards your right a little more.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Out towards your right. There.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Here?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: That one that just is on the top of the
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: chunk that you pulled out.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: This one? Yeah.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know if you can see me,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: but yeah.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's it. You're so patient.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I am very patient. Oh, we got the magician.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's gorgeous.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Caitlin's going to be pissed because we pulled her card
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: without her. Or maybe that's just like her being here
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: with us.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I'd like to think that. I think that's great. Are
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: the magician's feet tucked up on its chair?
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: No, you can't see them. So who knows where they are?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting, too, because I'm just like quickly just
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: shuffling through these. and not all of the characters are
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: dressed in black but the one that we pulled is
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: dressed in black she's wearing a magician's.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Costume very interesting oh.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Yes it looks like she's holding a lightsaber but i
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: feel like that's supposed to be like oh yeah a
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: wand or a stripper pole i'm not really sure christina
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: can you help us out okay so my interpretation book
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: The little one that came with the cat full of
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: spiders is what I'm going to read. I don't have
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the full big modern witch book, so it's not going
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to be as detailed. If you feel like we still
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: need more, we can always Google the card too and
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: see what comes up. Sometimes we do that. Okay, upright.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: You're filled to the brim with talent and charisma. Now
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: is the time to step into your own power and
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: become the star of the show. Which is like, is
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that what these women in black And ladies in black
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: were doing.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm thinking stepping into my power by
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: throwing acid on the face is not great. Stepping into
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: my power, though, starring of the show, dressing up like
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: a man to go get my husband out of prison.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: That's pretty.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, that is true.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Like passionate agent Angela, which I assume is one of
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the characters that she played because they're all like different
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: characters that she's been sent to inspire revolt among the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: oppressed citizens of neon. This must be a movie I've
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: never seen. But the revolt part is interesting. Definitely reminds
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: me of the prison break situation. You have what it
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: takes to manifest your dreams and make magic happen. Take
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: action and watch sparks fly.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's just kind of like about someone who's
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: making shit happen, which Melanie Lanier definitely did, even though
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: it didn't end well, but she still like did it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How do you feel like this card resonates? Do
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you think it resonates for all of the stories you told?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I kind of think so. It's just it's kind of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: just about a woman like showing herself.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: It's like what I'm getting like, show yourself. And like
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: all of these women made their presence known, whether it
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: was like in life or the afterlife.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: They were showing themselves. They might not have been the nicest.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: They were scaring people, but.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Women need to stop apologizing anyway. Right?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Gosh. Maybe the people they were scaring deserved it.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I actually was thinking, while she did
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: go through a lot of effort to break her husband out,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: do you think she wanted to do that? It did
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: cross my mind, like, was she forced to do this somehow?
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know why she would be, but at the time,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised to hear about a powerful woman doing anything
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: without her husband that sounds maybe so ignorant but i
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know because it's like how your husband's in
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: prison so it's not like he really can influence you
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: i don't think they were letting him like write her
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: letters or i don't.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Know does he have buddies though maybe.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe But I don't know. It was presented like she
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: she was doing this. She was going to go save
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: her husband.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: So I really don't know.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: We'll keep it like that. We'll keep it like that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I like that better. I was I just I always
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: think of the sad possible flip side into, you know,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: stories like that. But yeah, I think the magician fits.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Do we want to Google and see if there's anything
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: extra we can maybe add to it? Yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's do that. OK, I'll read this. This is from. Labyrinthos,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I never know how to say that name, but you
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: know that tarot website? Yeah. Labyrinthos. The magician is the
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: representation of pure willpower. With the power of the elements
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: and the suits, he takes the potential innate in the
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: fool and molds it into being with the power of desire.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: He is the connecting force between heaven and earth, for
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: he understands the meaning behind the words, as above, so below.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's kind of interesting because we're talking about ghosts,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: That mind and world are only reflections of one another.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Remember that you are powerful, create your inner world, and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: the outer will follow. Interesting.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I kind of had a thought too, like the first
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: two stories where they were never really like seen again
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: after that. Maybe they changed form. Maybe they, through their
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: own willpower and manifestation, they were like, oh, I'm scaring people.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll change the way I appear.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, like, why would they just disappear so suddenly? I
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, Taylin, how did you enjoy your first solo
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: with me episode?
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely loved it. Thank you so much. I have more
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: research I'm going to be doing on some of these things.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Not that you didn't do plenty, but I need to
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: know more about these women. And I have two new
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: movies to watch. Very good night for me.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I like can't wait to bring up
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: more movies you've never seen and make you watch them.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is a dream. This is the best.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: All right. Do we want to say goodbye to the
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: creepy people?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, let's do it.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Have a creepy ass day.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next Thursday.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Unless you turn into a hog, devil.