Latest / The You Project / #2224 Should You Become a Coach - Bobby Cappuccio

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#2224 Should You Become a Coach - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: G'day, team. It's Harps and Tiff and Bobby. It's the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You Project. I feel pretty good today. I'm going to
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: give myself an eight. I'm pretty happy, pretty calm, good energy.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: What do you give yourself, Tiff?
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I reckon, weirdly, I feel like a nine or a ten,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: and I had a terrible night's sleep again, so that
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: is a great rating.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This we weren't going to talk about, but just 30 seconds.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: What supplements do you take that you think move the needle?
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Creatine's my number one. I take creatine.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I take fish oil. I take magnesium. They're my staples.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I take a few things like, what's it called? Is
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: it ubiquinol, the active co-cuticle? Just a couple of things
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: that for my DNA come up as good for methylation
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: and whatever.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the creatine and magnesium and fish oil are
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: my three stables and creatine's number one on the pedestal.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You? It's funny you say that because I was
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: using creatine all year and then probably two months ago
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I just ran out. And for someone who's sponsored and
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: gets it for free, That's what you call the ultimate laziness, right?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: So I couldn't be bothered making the phone call to Max's. Thanks, Max's,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: for looking after me. You're the best. But anyway, about
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: two weeks ago, back on high dose, so 15 to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: 20 grams, I... I don't think it's a placebo because I– no,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: it's not a placebo. But, yeah, I feel really good,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: like all day. And I've just taken on all this
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: new coaching, which I was a little bit worried about
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: because I was going straightaway 14 more coaching sessions per
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: week in a week. And I'm really enjoying it. And
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I'm getting to the end of the day and I've
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: done more and I maybe feel better. So– What about you, Bobby?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Is there one or two supplements that you take that
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: move the needle for you?
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: So are we talking over-the-counter or prescription?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Whatever you want. Okay.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I'll start with the over-the-counter list first.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: The question was, is there one or two supplements?
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: That's not much of a list, is it?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask for a list.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Tiffany gave a list hang on if a supplement.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Fish oil magnesium she had creatine that's a list.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: You beck when all whatever you all right let's hear
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: your list feel free it's everything except that like weird
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: coq10 thing she was talking about but i take creatine
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: um yeah i take um fish oil and magnesium i
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: do take a multi yeah lately i've been popping a
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: bit of turmeric because of my shoulder problems and I
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: just don't want to, you know, pop like ibuprofen all
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: day long.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: So I supplement with that.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Is turmeric meant to be?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Anti-inflammatory.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Inflammation and pain, yeah. Yes, Tiff's got her little witch
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: finger up. Witchy poo finger.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Is a supplement by prescription then not a medication?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: No, that was a joke.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Just getting some clarity over here.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: In fact, medications are fine or drugs are fine. I
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: don't mean, you know what I mean.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I'm okay. As long as my nurse remembers to give
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: me what I need in the morning, I'm fine for
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: the rest of the day. I forget on my own. Because,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a list.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You're literally talking about my mum. The nurse literally comes
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: in twice a day. Hello, Mary.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Hello, Donna.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Donna.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: And off we go.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Sounds like a great relationship.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So what's the top of your list that helps you
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the most? Apart from drugs for your TBI or your
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: very creative, beautiful brain.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I feel like if I'm sleep deprived, I get a
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: benefit from creatine.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: Omega-3s just have. A lot of empirical evidence to support
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: how well they work just for cognition. That's why I
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: take them. I do notice an impact in sleep quality
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: with my magnesium. I feel like everything I'm taking helps.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: My base is a multivitamin though because I'm sure I
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: have just gaps in my nutrition daily. Just sometimes I
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: don't even eat the food volume where I would get
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of– has that ever happened to you where
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: you're just going through your day and you just realize
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I haven't had time to like stop and eat?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Not so much, but I do have– I try to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: eat instinctively and intuitively, and by that I just mean
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: when my body is saying it's time to eat. And
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes that's 8 a.m. and sometimes it's midday. So– Yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I often will eat breakfast at midday because I'm just
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: not hungry until then. And then some days I'll eat
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: dinner at 4.30 because I'm starving and sometimes it'll be
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: 8.30 because I'm not hungry until then. So I don't know.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I think there's definitely something to be said for actually
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: interacting with, consciously interacting with the interoception of your own body,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: By the time I realize I'm hungry sometimes, it's like, oh,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: now I've got to get on like a Zoom call
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: or a Teams call. And I don't want people watching
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: me stuff my face.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Rude.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: They'll think I'm not focused.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: You should do a little check-in with your body.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So today we're talking about coaching. We all do coaching,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: a slightly different version, but there's a lot of overlap
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: between what us three do with people in different capacities.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's corporate, sometimes it's health. Sometimes it's more in
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the sporting space. We might call that high performance. With
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: some people, it might be more focused on nutrition, but
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: there's just a lot of what we would call, I guess,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: categories now of coaching. But I wanted to talk to you, Bobby,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you've been coaching forever. Tiff, you've been coaching for quite
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a while as well. And As I said to you
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: before we went live, I'm currently working with three coaches
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: who are on the journey. They've got their L plates
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: on or P plates on. I don't know what it
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: is in the States, but that is they're just learning
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: to drive or they've been driving for a little period
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: of time. And so it's really made me think and rethink,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: how do I do all the stuff that I do
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: on autopilot? Because it's quite, you know, 40 years in,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of, unconscious and there's not that much I
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: guess even awareness at times about around what I'm doing
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: and why I'm doing it this way and how I'm
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: doing it because it's more just in the moment and
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: instinctive but.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: So what do you think who do you think should
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: be a coach or should consider being a coach and
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: what as in you know what kind of attributes and
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: skills do they need let's start there.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's someone who has a fundamental faith and
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: trust in other people. Someone who I feel doesn't think
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: that coaching means they need to have all of the answers.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: And someone who's also willing to really be bad at
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: it in the beginning. I don't mean bad until you
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: negatively impact your client, but bad where... What people think
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: coaching is and what it actually is are often very
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: different things. And the core competencies of coaching are awkward.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: They're counterintuitive. They're exceedingly hard to develop to any high
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: level of competence. So someone who's willing to sit in
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that and learn continually. I think that type of person
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: would be well suited for coaching.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, so if I'm one of the potential newbies, I'm
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: listening to you. I'm trying to listen to you as
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: not Craig Harper but someone else. Well, my next question
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: to you is then how the fuck do I know
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: when I'm ready to start? Because surely there's a point
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  Speaker 1: in time where I actually don't know enough to be
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: of service. Like you can't just go, I decided last
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: night I'm going to be a coach and And I've
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: been a plumber for the last five years. Therefore, today
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a coach. I'm start coaching. So surely there are
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  Speaker 1: some base requirements or there are some kind of milestones
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  Speaker 1: or standards, even if they're relatively low. How do I
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: know when I should actually, apart from getting a qualification,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: which is probably good.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Getting a qualification is critical. And I think it's critical
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: for a couple of reasons. One, you learn what coaching is.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: In the beginning, you'll probably learn more frameworks than as
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: you start to evolve within your journey. We can talk
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: about that a little bit later. But understanding the definition,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: the mindset, and the skill sets of coaching is critical.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of nonsense on the internet about coaching.
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  Speaker 3: And one of the things you learn about it, not
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  Speaker 3: by studying it, but by practicing it. That's like saying
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: you learn about brain surgery, not by studying it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It.
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  Speaker 3: You don't need a teacher. Just go out and practice.
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  Speaker 3: What could possibly go wrong? So yeah, getting a qualification,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: that probably is first and foremost. But if you have
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: people around you that support you and they understand you're
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: in that learning, apply those skills as often as you
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  Speaker 3: possibly can. Not with a client, probably with a good
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: friend of yours, a family member of yours. Again, someone
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: that knows you're learning, someone that's willing to let you
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  Speaker 3: practice on them. So three things is number one, clarity.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Why do you want to be a coach? Like what
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: makes you think you're going to be a good coach? Two,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: when you say coaching, what does that mean to you, right?
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  Speaker 3: go ahead and develop the core competencies, practice, and then reflect.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: So after every coaching session, go back to the materials,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: look through it. It's like, okay, where did I utilize
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: this effectively? If I could go back in time, hit
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: rewind and do this coaching session again, what would I
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: have done differently? Either in what I was doing and
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: the skills I was executing or who I was being
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: within this session. I think that's critically important.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You said, Tiff, I'm going to go to you.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Bobby said something before, which I love, that is you
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: don't need to know everything to be a brilliant coach, right?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And that was a concern of mine forever. Like I
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: didn't even want to get up and talk to audiences
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: because I was scared someone would ask me something I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: should know but didn't know the answer to, right? And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: you're relatively new compared to me and him into the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: coaching space. Tell me about that getting comfortable, like I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: don't know everything, so I don't expect you to. In fact,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: of what there is to know, I don't know most.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: But you getting up as a relative newcomer to the space,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: tell me about that kind of dichotomy of I'm up
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: here doing it and I'm leading and teaching and inspiring,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: but also I simultaneously at times feel like I don't
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: know enough. Mm, mm.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: I think for me I.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Developed from a space of curiosity but I developed maybe
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the awareness that I wanted to and had the ability
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: to hold space for people and whilst being very open
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: about what I did and did not have the capacity
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: So I started playing in that space.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Not calling myself a coach, but just having conversations and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: getting to know people. And then I went on to
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: do some coaching qualifications and NLP and I didn't like
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the frameworks because I felt it was nice to learn
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: about language and about how we can influence and understand
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: and use techniques. They were really beneficial, but I There
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: was a lot I didn't like about some of the
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: processes and the workbooks because it took me away from
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: that intuitive relationship, holding space and listening.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I think what I love about what you
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: just said is that including what I teach and Bobby teaches,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it's like we all teach basically our own model. Yes,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: we've done courses and qualifications, but Eventually you Craigify it
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: or Bobbyify it and that becomes, you know, and then
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: so you step into that framework and that culture and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: you take what you need or what resonates with you
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: but also then think for yourself. I love it that
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you said you did NLP and there were probably bits
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and pieces in NLP, everyone is neuro-linguistic programming. There were
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: bits and pieces that you went, that's great, that resonates
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: with me, but other things you're like, eh, not so sure.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: But that is where you start to kind of create
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: your model built on the things that you believe and
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you have seen work and you think are the most
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: valuable to teach while all trying at the same time
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to typify that into a language that that people get. Yes.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I feel very fortunate because I'd done a lot of that,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I guess, learning and playing in that space. Then I
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: started this podcast six years, not this podcast, my podcast
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: six years ago.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: People got to know.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: How I thought and how I explored ideas and how
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I I guess, my beliefs around the mind and life.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And then people started coming to ask me for coaching
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: or ask me if.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: I did coach.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, I don't talk about
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that on this. And so it was very, yeah, it
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: was nice to not follow a model and then to
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: have people resonate with it and want to partner with
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you in that.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When people say to me, what do I do,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: like complete strangers, if I'm wherever, I'm sitting on a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: plane and the bloke next to me goes, What do
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you do? Because I could literally give him 15 answers
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: because they are all things that I do. But I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: usually say something like, I help people explore and fulfill,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: tap into their potential. I kind of help people, you know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I coach them to be the best version of them.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And then they're like, oh, how do you do that?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And I go, well, through a range of kind of
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: different mediums and processes and context. And yeah, that's the
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: thing I think, even as a coach or a teacher,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: which I'm not an expert or a guru or whatever
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: you are, or a leader, if you're not still evolving
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and growing, then you're probably not going to be super
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: valuable to everyone else. And Bobby, do you think that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: being able to be trained in a certain way but
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: not be basically a cult member of that training is
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a better idea than just becoming basically an advocate for
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that one style or one approach or one protocol.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: That's a problem with methods. I think frameworks are important
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: because a lot of them are built on empirical evidence
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: and they give you guidance. When Tiffany was saying earlier,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: I just want to hold space for people. I find
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: that beautiful. And I think that one of the things
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: that happens in your coaching journey, let's say the ICF,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: for example, International Coaching Federation, is when you start out
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: in coaching, You might use a framework like the 5D
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: model or the GROW model. And something that I created
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: for consultants is real coaching. And it's just something that
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: guides the conversation. It doesn't direct it, but it guides
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: it along. So there's an evolving narrative. As you start
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: to develop and deepen your skill sets, you move further
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: and further away from that model. And you rely more
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: on what are the core competencies? And how do they
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: show up fluidly? And how are you present enough to
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: be in response to your client? So anytime you're following
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: a method and the method becomes, I'm not picking on
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: L and people like NLP. I only do NLP. Okay. Well,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: that's serving a method, not serving a client. Like you
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: have a client, what are the tools that fit the situation?
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I think that's something to be careful with. And there's
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: a lot of that in the fitness industry, not around coaching,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: but around, this is my methodology. I follow this guru.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, you went to the event in Keystone, Colorado,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: you were there. You saw some of that emerging from
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: the stage as well as being dismantled, which was kind
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: of cool.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. That was, uh, that was an interesting weekend
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: as I recall. Um, I did a gig last year,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: not last year, probably two years ago for, I forget
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the name of the organisation, but it's essentially of the organisation,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: but it's essentially a body of psychologists that are based
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in Victoria and it might be their, I don't know,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: their professional kind of group or whatever it is, but
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I found myself in a room with people I don't know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: at least 100, 150 psychologists talking to them about, among
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: other things, human behaviour, which was very ironic. But I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: kind of set it up at the start of the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: day and said, you and I have probably a few things,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: probably a lot of things in common. But one of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: them is that people come to us because they want
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to change something. from negative to positive. You know, they
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: want to improve or grow or understand or learn or
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: evolve or, you know, manage stress better. In my shape,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it was often be leaner or fitter or stronger or faster.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But there was that same objective of change. And I
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: kind of led from there and I went, Definitely you
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: know more about me than a lot of things. I
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: probably know a few things that you don't just because
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: of our backgrounds. Anyway, we went from there. And at
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, I was quite nervous. At
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, it had gone really well.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: And I had, I don't know how many, but probably
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: about 10 to 15 psychologists come up to me to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: say that was great, loved it, thank you. But nearly
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: all of them said, I wish I could do what
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: you do the way that you do it. because they
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: can't say certain things, like because they are bound by
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: these principles of, you know, whatever it is, the rules
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and regulations of clinical psychology, as they should be, they
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: don't have that freedom to say what they really think sometimes.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: So I thought, yeah, I'm glad I'm not a clinical psychologist.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I can kind of just say, you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: while hopefully operating in some kind of wisdom, you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that you can just say what you think without trying
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to figure out whether or not this is permissible or
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: whether or not this fits within the framework of the industry.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, and there's probably reasons for that. I know
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: in coaching there is. I mean, I'm a coach and
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: I can say whatever I want to say, but in
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: what environment? Like in this environment, I can just tell
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: you what I think. Where if I was sitting with
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: a client, I'd be reluctant because I don't want what
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I think to sway their discovery or to impact how
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: they answer or they process because it's not really about
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: what I think. It's about being present and listening so
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I can engage in the right inquiry in that moment
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: to elicit what they think. It's about their discovery, not mine.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Tiff.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: You've done quite a few courses and accreditations and quals.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: What's the best thing that you've learned about coaching people
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: on the job, like at the coalface doing the job,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: whether it's on zoom, whether it's face to face, whether
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: or not it's with the groups that you work with
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: individuals that you work with, what have you, what have
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you learned or what have you been taught that you
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: didn't learn in a course?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I think there's almost an, I'm not sure if it's
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: a teachable thing, there's the aspect of knowing, sometimes I
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: want to call it common sense, or like how do
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: you tell someone that they can hold a very vulnerable
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: space for someone and talk about maybe some pretty confronting
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: experiences or traumas? when maybe most people, like most people
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: aren't equipped for that. You need to, yeah, be very
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: careful in that space. And I think that is something
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: that I have done quite a bit and I feel
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: very aware of it. I don't think that's teachable and
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I was never taught that. Like I didn't do a
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: therapy course.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. How do you know what will work? Because what
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: will light Jane on fire and blow her mind and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: open a window of understanding and inspire her will create
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the opposite effect for John. How do you know in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: real time where to go and what to say and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: what not to say? Because there is no, you know,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: here's the problem or, you know, person A, B, C
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and D are all dealing with a very similar issue. However,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: they are not the same people. How do you figure
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: out what you should say to each of those individuals
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: about the same thing?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't know for me if it's that cognitive
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: or logic. I think I feel it. I feel I
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: am a different person with different people and there's a
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I guess there's a building of rapport, there's a matching
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and mirroring of energy that happens unconsciously and I feel
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: and follow what feels appropriate at the time.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: And I don't know what directs that for me.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: How are you with having difficult experiences uncomfortable conversations. Like
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you think somebody's full of shit, right? And you know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: they're full of shit. You know, they're lying. And like,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I know you're good with the holding space and all
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: of those things, which we need and the love and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the care and all of that. But at some stage,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: some people, including me, need to be told you're the problem, bro.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Like I can dress it up and make it sound different,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: but You're lying to me and you're lying to yourself.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: How do you have direct, hard conversations while also, you know,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: them still understanding that you care about them? Yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I think for me, I think I look up to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: your ability to do that in the way that you
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: do it a lot. I think I do it very
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: differently and I think.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I probably go to a place of finding something that
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I can talk about with me that would cause them
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: to reflect and see what I'm almost trying to say,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: but in a way that's a little bit more.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: Palatable for them in the moment to test the waters.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: So I tell a story and then I feel out
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: their response to that and then I know whether that's
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: something we can explore a little bit deeper in that moment.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What about for you, Bobby, having difficult conversations, not
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: because you want to upset someone, hurt someone, not because
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you're a prick, but because you just think that's what
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: needs to be, or at the very least, direct and honest?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: I think the way I would frame it is developing discrepancies.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: So that's a term that comes from Rolnick and Miller,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: where somebody wants something and But their behaviors are creating
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: a different reality or a different outcome than what they
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: say they want. And for me, it's what's the question
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: I could ask? Because I wouldn't confront somebody. And there's
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: a few reasons why I wouldn't confront somebody. Because one,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: it's possible that they've had that same exact conversation with themselves.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: And if I'm confrontational... And even softly confrontational. Like, I
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: don't think that's true. Like you said, well, this person
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: might not be truthful with me. By invalidating them, it's about, okay,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: them maintaining autonomy, them defending their position. For me, it
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: would be, how do I reflect back what they're saying
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: and reflect back what I'm observing that might not be said?
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: It could be a shift in body language. And what's
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: the next question that allows that individual to explore some
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: possible gaps between what they're saying and what they're actually
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: doing in an environment of non-judgment? Because any realization they
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: come to, their realizations are more powerful than any of
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: my insights.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, but what about if somebody for 20 years is
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: saying it's not me, it's not my fault, it's never me.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Like do you never say, bro, I love you, but
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: at some stage you've got to look at what is
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: happening in your life, what you're producing and not producing,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: your relationships, and maybe you're the common denominator. Maybe you're
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: all of it, none of it. I don't know, but
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: maybe do you not ever just feel? I don't know
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: how you avoid it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I don't avoid it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Hang on. When somebody's clearly doing things that are creating
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: bad outcomes and then sitting in front of me saying
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: it's got nothing to do with me, why can't you
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: challenge that?
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: It's not that you can't. It's that I would be
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: a little bit reluctant to. Because if I'm going to
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: challenge that, the first thing is like, what am I
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: trying to do here?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Am I trying to- Build awareness, build responsibility, build accountability.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: So evoking awareness. I don't feel that me saying something
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: to someone bluntly with a lot of people a lot
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: of the time evokes awareness.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't say bluntly. I don't think you need to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: be rude or confrontational. I just think you need to say, listen, champ,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: this is what's been going on. We've had a thousand conversations.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Do you really believe? Do you really believe that none
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: of this is your fault? Like, I don't think that's
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: rude or grumpy or adversarial. I just don't know why
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you avoid hard questions.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Because it's the... me, it's the difference between intention and
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I could be right or I could be effective. If
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I say, listen, you seem to be the common denominator.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: That can easily go into, well, no, I'm not because
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: and now we're back to defending. It's the same loop versus.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Tell me a little bit more about what consistently shows
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: up in these situations.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: The problem with that is you are hoping they will
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: come to a moment of self-realization.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I'm hoping they'll answer the question. And
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: based on how they answer the question, that'll inform me
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: about what the very next question might be. And then
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: this is a, this is a really good example of
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: moving from a framework, right? Like I'll just use the
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: grow model between here's my goal. Here's the reality. Oh,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: now we're stuck, but I got to move on to
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: what are my options versus no, just, just sit in
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: what's happening right now. Focus on the core competencies. It
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: could be something like, you know, if you, If you
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: were playing a role in this pattern that keeps emerging,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: how would you know? What would that look like for you?
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: They've got to come to that own realization. A lot
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: of times you do that, not necessarily with questions, but
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: with reflections. Where you're observing things within the conversation that
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: they're not aware of. that they're demonstrating, but they are.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: And sometimes our solidly placed reflection can land a lot
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: harder than a question. It could come to, oh, okay.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: If you let somebody talk long enough, it's amazing what
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: they can discover from their continual narratives if you hold
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: a mirror up to it. So can I give you
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: an example? Let me give you an example of something here.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but hang on. Rather than personal anecdotes, which, yes,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: you can, but I'm like, what would I say? If
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you were to reflect on, you know, whatever. the part
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: or the level of responsibility you have in the problem,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: what might come up for you? Why not just say,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: do you think you're part of the problem? It's just
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: yes or no.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Because that normally elicits what we would call reactants. In
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: order for me to maintain.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Not for me. Do you think you're part of the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: problem at all?
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: If you take a look at thousands of examples... of
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: directly confronting somebody or directly going, here's what I'm observing.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: And by the way, you might, there might be a
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: point where you say, hey, Craig, can I take my
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: coaching hat off and just share something with you? Would
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: that be helpful to maintain autonomy? Because a lot of
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: times people do realize that they're part of the problem.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: But that realization, for whatever reason, is painful. It's not safe.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Or there's something else that they're protecting. So there are
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: two minds. So if they're having a conversation in their head,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: one voice is advocating for change. The other voice is
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: advocating to stay exactly the way they are because they
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: are right and the problem is everybody else. And you
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: become that voice that says, you know, you're the problem.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: You need to change. What happens a lot of the time,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: this is.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Called the right reflex. Hang on. You say these things
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that I have not said. I never say to people,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you're the problem. You need to change. Like I say,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: is it possible? Like that, that.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a valid point.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not accusing anyone. I'm saying, okay, this has been
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: going on for 10 years, right? Do you think you're
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: part of the problem? Like if people find that offensive,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: they don't want to be coached. Like I don't even
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: understand how this is an issue. When you say to
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: somebody who has problems, do you think you're part of
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: the cause? Like how the fuck is that offensive?
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: It's not.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Why do we need to detour around that?
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: It's not offensive. And where I don't want this to go.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: It's not about coddling people versus the truth. It's about
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: dynamics and conversation, what they evoke.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: So one way that I feel I would tweak that
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: question is open it up a little bit.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Like instead, and I would ask for permission. Instead of
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: a close ended, if you were playing a role in this, right,
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: this safe, what would be some of the ways that
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: you might be participating? in these outcomes. So there's not blame, right?
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's your fault, not saying it's you.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: And I'm leaving it very open for you to answer
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: more than, no, I don't think that's true. Because if
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: you put me in a corner where I have to
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: answer yes or no without context, I might close the
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: conversation with a no rather than if you leave it
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: a little bit more expansive, we can go somewhere. Even
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: if we don't get there right then and there, we
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: can still go somewhere.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: In the conversation.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: See what you did there?
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: You said, if you put me in a corner. Like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: who the fuck what? I'm not putting anyone in a corner.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just going, here's a question. But you make it
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: sound like some poor caged animal backed into a, I'm like, no, dude,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: it's so fucking simple. Are you part of the problem
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: or not? If you're not, cool. If you are, let's,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: by the way, I'm realizing I'm never going to get
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: another coaching client right now. And I also understand, Bobby,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you're about to get very busy. So I'm well aware.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I'm well aware that everybody's like, I'm never fucking getting
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: coached by him. Oh, that's funny. That's funny. What are
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on our observations? Sorry, go on, mate. Go on.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with making observations. It's just one. I
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: really don't know what a good question is until I'm
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: listening to the response of the person from the question before.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: And factoring in context. Second, I want to ask a
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: question in a way that allows exploration and doesn't evoke reactance,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: which is what kind of happens. And it doesn't matter
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: whether it's true or false, what your intention is. It's
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: what happens when people feel that their autonomy is being
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: taken away. Or they're not being heard or this or
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: when we're operating off of a writing reflex, which is.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: I can clearly see what the problem is here and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I know how to fix it. When that happens, it
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: usually shuts down the conversation.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: And if somebody agrees to something, is that agreement put
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: into sustainable behavior change? Because did that realization come from
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: the person or, wow, I respect my coach and my
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: coach sees this and I want to make my coach happy.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: So you know what? Maybe they're right. That's not something
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: that I've realized about myself. That's something that has been
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: observed by someone else and they shared that observation. Now,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: sometimes that can actually be helpful. I just like to
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: structure things in a way that allows people to explore
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Yeah.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: That's why you're much more likable than me. Tiff, does
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: this make you not want to be a coach anymore?
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: No.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I think this conversation is a perfect example of why–
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: like who's going to come to Craig and who's going
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: to come to Robert? Well, Robert– because i just read
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: your name that's weird bobby.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Who the fuck's robert.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Robert capuccio in the top left of my screen um.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: People that are drawn to you harps are drawn to
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and they kind of come to you and they're like
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: fuck i'm sick of myself and he's right i am
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: sick of myself so they want that conversation from you
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: they're ready for that and people that come to bobby
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: love the way that he references and understands really complex
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: things and can sit in a space of exploring that
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: a bit more gently and introspectively. And it's just two
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: different coachings. It's the same thing in two different environments.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I would say that 80% of the people listening to
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: this right now would say Craig would be a much
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: better coach for me. Because most of the times when
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: you ask people, what do you want from a coach?
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: It's like, I want someone to tell me like it is,
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: like be straight with me, hold me accountable. And it's like, okay, great.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: And that makes sense. But what is going to create
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: long-term change? Because if you want me to hold you accountable, fine.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: I'll set a goal for you. I'll set the parameters
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: of the goal and you report in and tell me
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: how you're doing. It's not your goal. You didn't choose it.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: You're not intrinsically committed to it. I want to share something.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I'm going to change the details a little bit, just
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: for privacy sakes. This is a perfect example. So one
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: of my coaches that I work with, He was coaching
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: someone and this individual, she was struggling with certain dietary commitments.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Can I just ask a quick question? Is this someone
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: you coach or someone who coaches you?
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: No, this is someone who I coach with their client.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm just being quite vague around the details, but
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: this is beautiful and it's a perfect example. And she
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: was having issues with some dietary commitments. And in coaching,
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: you don't coach the problem, you coach the person. Because
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: it's very rarely the problem. There's something usually deeper. And
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: she would come home from work all the time and
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: be stressed and frustrated and miserable and just reach for
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: anything that's going to alter her mood, which is probably
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: something that's going to elevate tryptophan a bit to synthesize
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: into serotonin. Sugary, fatty foods, yeah? And she's talking about
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: How much her, we'll just call them, we'll call them clients,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: frustrate her. And she is just absolutely fed up. And
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: they drive her absolutely crazy. And she feels like she's
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: in like this, like Groundhog Day. Every single day is
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: more of the same. She has no autonomy, no control.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: And these clients, and she's saying some things, you know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: it's okay. That's a bit harsh. And as she's talking,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: he shares an affirmation with her, which is, you care
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: deeply about these clients. They don't frustrate you. You don't
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: dislike them. You care about them. And the reason why
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: he shared that is because she was talking about so
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: many details of their day and the struggles that they
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: go through that really you wouldn't notice unless you were
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: paying attention. You only pay painstaking attention to something like
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: that when you care about the individual. And she gets
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: very quiet. All he was doing was reflecting back an observation.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: And turns out, he was right. She loves her career.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: She absolutely loves the work she got into. But she
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: feels that some of these clients are so underserved And
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: the challenges they're facing are getting greater and greater. And
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: she got in this to help people. And she feels
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: that her hands are tied. And it's so infuriating. That
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: realization led to the discovery that even showing up and
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: caring in an environment with so many barriers can make
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: a difference. And she is very good at her job.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: And she did get into the right field. And yes,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of things outside of her control.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: So once she started doing that, she had a greater
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: sense of autonomy in her work. She was not nearly
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: as frustrated. What do you think happens when she goes
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: home at night? She doesn't have that dire need to
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: reach for anything that's going to change her emotional state immediately.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: So her food choices change. So that's kind of what
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: I'm saying is sometimes you got to sit in it
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: with people. Because there's a deep discovery because they might
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: not even realize the layers behind what they think is
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: the problem. It's not the problem. It's an issue with them.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: It's always about that individual. Marshall Clarke, great coach. Anybody
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: who wants to pick up this book, coach the person,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: not the problem. It is a brilliant book.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I love it. It all makes sense. Tiff... Describe your
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: coaching style.
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: If you had a style or, you know, I'm more
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: of a this, and it's not Craig or Bobby or,
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: by the way, I know you're a great coach, mate,
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: and the whole 80% Craig thing is bullshit, but it's
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: a compliment, but thanks.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't, like I resonate with some people strongly
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: and not with others at all. I bet I get
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: more hate mail than you by about 100. So I'm
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: well aware, I'm well aware that, you know, I'm not
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: for everyone. I understand that. But sorry, Tiff, I'll come back.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: But I love people as well and when I see
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: their potential and I see them not kind of owning
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: that or exploring that as they could, it's not frustration.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's almost sadness for me where I go, oh,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: which is why I always tell people like, you know, I'm,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I reckon 60% of the people I've ever coached as
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: smart or smarter than me. And people go, oh, that's bullshit.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: You just say that. No, I go, well, if we're
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: just talking about intellect, yes. You know, or, potential or
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: athletic ability or musical ability or creative aptitude or whatever.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: And it's just when I see all this potential in
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: people that for 15, 20 years they've been sitting on
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: and waiting for the right time or the right day
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: or the right energy or the right feeling, I just go,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know that this kind of searching for meaning
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: and understanding and exploring the depths of your feelings and
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: emotions for another 10 years, which is not what I'm
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: suggesting you're doing. But it's like, how long do we
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: not kind of just say, all right, so here are
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the problems. Here's what's happening. What can we do? What's happening? Anyway,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I'll shut up. Tiff, your coaching style. I.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I like to say rather that I don't like calling
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: myself a coach. When I ran my programs a couple
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: of years ago, regularly I was calling myself a facilitator
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm a bit like I'm in
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: it with you, like a little explorer. I come in,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I feel well-resourced. I feel like I have a huge
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: amount of knowledge and tools and ideas that I spontaneously
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: draw from when I'm in that space. I feel like
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I'm far more intuitive than I realized. But when you
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: were just talking before, I got this strong belief that
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: we can't change what we won't accept. So I'm very
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: much about exploring that self-compassion piece Like if you can't
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: accept or understand this behaviour and be self-compassionate, you won't
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: change it because you will develop a I am shit
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: kind of relationship with it. And I think sometimes that
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: makes us self-sabotage or loop back or not be able
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: to move on.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Definitely.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Bobby, do you think we need to get to a point,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that point is, but in our
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: own development, before, like even if we've done the course
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and got some knowledge, do I need to get to
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: a certain point where I'm walking my talk, I'm living
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: my values, I'm authentic before I start coaching people?
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: I do. And let me describe what I mean by that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: All right. So if you look at the ICF, and
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: I love this, the ICF- It's the International Coaching Federation.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: It lays out eight core competencies. And I think these
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: core competencies are not just great core competencies within a
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: coaching session. I think they are beautiful core competencies to
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: implement in your life through daily practice, not perfection. It's
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: not like, well, you got to have everything figured out
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: in your life because you might be waiting a few centuries.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: I've never met anyone who has their shit completely together.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: And people who insist they got their shit together usually,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: like when you peel the layers of the onion, it's
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: kind of scary what you find. But at least having
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: a practice and a striving and a growth and reflection
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: around it. And the first core competency is a code
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: of ethics.
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: And when we hear a code of ethics, it's not
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: exactly what you think it is. People think, oh, right,
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: code of ethics. Don't do anything dishonest. Don't cheat, lie, steal.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Don't violate confidentiality.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: All of that. But it's not just about doing no harm.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: It's about doing good. It's about seeing people as whole
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: and complete and understanding that they might be from a
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: completely different part of the world where you grew up
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: and they might see the world differently. And those differences
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: are valid. They're not wrong.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: And you need to take your beliefs. around what you
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: think people should be and should think and should, and
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: move that to the side. It's about dignity and complete
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: respect and positive regard for the person. Second core competency
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: is maintaining a coaching mindset. And what that means is
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: a practice of reflection and Well, what exactly happened in
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: these sessions and a commitment to continual learning? You are
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: consistently striving to grow and learn and get better. The
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: third is being very clear in establishing and maintaining agreements. Like,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: what is the nature of our relationship? What are we
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: here to accomplish? What is the context and the framework
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: around this? Not just what is it, but what is
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: this not? What's outside the scope? I think that's valuable
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: in a lot of relationships. Four, maintain trust and safety
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: in the way you engage with people.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: And this is where you need to feel you can
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: say anything to me. And it doesn't have to align
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: with what I think, what I would do, who I am.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: This is a safe space for you to act in
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: an environment of complete positive regard. The next one is
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: be completely present. Because if you're completely present, you can
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: engage in active listening.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: And then if you can do that, you could evoke
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: awareness and you could facilitate, help that person facilitate growth.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: And those are the eight core competencies. Now, could you
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: imagine if you engaged everyone in life like that, regardless
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: of the situation? To me, that's authenticity, is this is
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: what's important to me, not only as a core competency
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: and strength, but as a deeply held value. And I'm
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: going to bring this to whatever degree I can, even
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: if imperfectly, into every environment that i'm working within and
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: if you look at that it's like okay i'm aligned
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: with this i am doing this i am holding this
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: space yeah that's important because if you're incongruent with your
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: daily practice of that you're probably not going to develop
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: it and maintain it inside a session it's going to
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: leak out of you I mean, it still might. You
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: just said something that's very important about, you know, I'm
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: saddened when people have this potential they want to change
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: and they're not. I think that's something that a lot
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: of coaches that struggle the most to be fair, a
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: lot of times are the most caring. And empathy can
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: go too far to where it's like, wow, this is
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: actually paining me.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: And it's like, I could fix this. I just see this.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: That again is called a writing reflex. And it's something
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: that people who are deeply caring about people run into
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: as a coach. You're always going to run into it.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: For me, it's not a matter of eliminating it. It's
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: catching it and working to resolve it. And there's something else.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: And that's Coaching is not always the answer. It's not
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: always what you need. I was referred a coaching client
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: not too long ago by someone who I deeply respected.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: And when we were talking about, well, tell me what
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: your expectations are.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: What do you think is important to you about having
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: a coach? And what she had said is, I need
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: someone to take a look at my entire business scope
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: and my systems workflow and help me get to the
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: next level.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: It's like, one, I'm not in your business.
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: How am I going to tell you that? Number two,
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: you're not looking for a coach. You're looking for a
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: consultant or a business mentor. And after talking to me
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: about it, I was like, you know what? Why don't
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: we pause? Here's a couple of questions I'd like to
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: ask you. Let's meet back here next week. And you
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: give me the answer after you thought about it. And
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: when we met back and we had another conversation, it
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: was very clear. She was like, oh my God, yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: I need a mentor. Yeah, you don't need a coach.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: Coaching is not always the answer. You know, if somebody
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: goes to one of your seminars, you're going to share
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of opinions. It's like that might be the
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: thing in the environment that helps that person. So coaching
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: is a tool. Like you talk about people getting completely
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: committed to a method over having that method serve a client.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I feel the same way about coaching. It's not the
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: only tool for every person in every set of circumstances
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: in all contexts.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: So I feel like we all have our own kind of,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: for want of a better term, coaching philosophy or ideas, ideology, whatever, approach, framework.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: But I find myself using often quite different approaches depending
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: on the person. So, for example, last week, or was
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: it the week before? No, last week. I started coaching
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: seven new people, just a 28-day thing, but individuals, seven
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: individual sessions twice a week. So 14 new coaching sessions
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: a week for a 28-day period. So I kind of
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: jumped straight back in the coaching pool with full throttle.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: And one of the clients, I don't want anyone to
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: figure out who it is, but this person is a
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: world champion powerlifter and like currently in the top one
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: or two in the world, like phenomenal. Also works as
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: a trainer. Just their whole life is crossing T's, dotting I's,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: doing the work, sleep, recovery, training, coaching people, and so disciplined.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: And so we had this chat and they're like, essentially,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I don't need you to hold my hand. I don't
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: need you to rub my back. I don't need you
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: to tell me I'm brilliant. I just need you to
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: help me solve these problems. I want to work with you.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: And it's so funny because with this person, you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: obviously after much discussion and so on, we just created
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: a plan and a bit of a to-do list and
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: all of that, and they're like, thanks. See you next time.
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: And it's just... the easiest coaching session of all time
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: because you don't have to overthink it. And then there are,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: in fact, it's a really good group. It's like I'm
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: incredibly fortunate. There's one person in there who's fine. They're
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: all good. And this person's good as well. But it's
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: very different to that experience I just described. And so
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: therefore you have to go in and I'm a different
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: me because that experience version one of me would not
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: work with this person at all. It would be the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: first and last ever session. So I think there's that
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: bit of having your philosophy and your approach, but also
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: being able to adapt that to what is happening, which
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Tiff talks about really in real time, because you will
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: be a different person depending on who you're in front of. Tiff.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Let's go to you. That's you, right? You don't coach
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: everyone the same way?
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not at all, not at all.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: And even, like I said, when I did my group
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: coaching last time, I was very intuitive on what we
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: were going to do each week. I kind of had
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: a plan at the beginning, but then as the week
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: rolled around, pending where we'd been the time before and
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: what had come up for me, sometimes I made a
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: decision that, you know, A few hours before, I'm going
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: to change this whole thing. We're going to explore this
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: area tonight. I think the beautiful thing too about dealing
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: with groups, which to a degree you are, you've got individuals,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: but you're going through a 28 days together is you.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: Get other people's.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Influence inside that space, both for yourself as a coach,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: but for other people to feel part of something, to
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: explore other people's ideas and sometimes to have some penny
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: dropping moments that they observe in others that they didn't
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: realize in themselves.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah bobby i have a question for you and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: that is when you are coaching somebody and this is
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: something i struggled with for a while uh how do
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: you stay i mean fully fully present because you're a
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: bit ADHD, you've got all the challenges, right? How do you,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: with that brain of yours, which is like beautiful and amazing,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: but also problematic depending on the situation, right? How do
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: you stay fucking fully focused?
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, coaching for me, as labor intensive as it is,
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: because I find it all consuming and exhausting, Yes. Is
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: so therapeutic for me because I'm probably more present there
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: than any other time.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: So the first thing is what happens before, you know,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: like right before. i got on this show yeah i
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: went outside into the heat and i was making videos
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: and i was like creating content and came i don't
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: do any of that right so right before i coach
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: there needs to be a time frame where i'm just
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: getting ready whether that's reviewing the notes from the previous
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: session or Or I'm just sitting and doing absolutely nothing.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit of breath work. Maybe I'm setting
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: my intention.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: How do I want to show up? And then I follow,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: I deeply follow and explore their narrative. And I disconnect
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: from anything in my head about what happens next.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: So I could stay with everything that they're saying. And
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: for me, active listening is a great tool because obviously
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: it's more than just being completely silent and attentive. There's skills.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I'm looking to reflect, to take what they're saying. Like,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: what am I observing? What's the emotional context? What's the need, right?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: What are some disparities? What are conflicts in what they're saying?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Is there a request that they're making? And is there
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: something that wants to emerge that... They're just, they're not
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: quite getting there. So I'm completely focused on what I'm
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: offering back in that moment. I mean, if we've done
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: a little bit of coaching, I'm anchored through coaching. multiple
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: levels and styles of reflection and affirmations. Yes. And encapsulations.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: How do I take everything that's happened within the past
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: five minutes? Yes. And summarize it, connect it to what
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: I'm observing it means and use that to guide into
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: the next phase of the coaching session. Yes. All of
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: those active listening tools keep me quite engaged and present.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Love it. Tiff, you've spoken many times about your
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: beautiful brain also. You and Bobby are not that different
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: in some ways. I hope the attention span of a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: four-year-old in a lolly shop or a chocolate brownie shop
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: in your case. What do you do? Like what's your
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: practice or do you not think about this much or
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: how do you be fully, especially obviously in a one-on-one situation,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: How do you stay completely present, not distracted, not thinking
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: about something else and 100% theirs for that hour?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: I think a bit like Bobby. For me, it feels
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: so easy because I'm curious and I'm learning and I'm
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: problem solving and I'm thinking. There's no space for anything else.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit like when I first started
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: podcasting and went, oh, look how well I listen when
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting in front of someone having a conversation. way
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: better than when I tune into an audio book to learn.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I find the being present just so it's,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: it's great, which exhausting, but great. And I think that
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: quite often it makes me go to a place of,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: especially if, if something feels complex about a person's situation,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: I will rarely have the answer or an answer or
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: direction in that moment or session. It'll be something that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I will, will, We'll hear it and over the next
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: few days I think about it a lot or things
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I guess it processes and then I will come back
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: with ideas but I don't look for them in the
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: moment because I'm so present. I think you have to
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: allow that. There is that sense of urgency around going,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: what answer do I have for this? How do we
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: fix this? We don't. We just let the answer emerge
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: both in that person and in you.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you both the same question and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: then we'll finish. And the question is, for people who
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: are thinking about or curious about becoming a coach, whatever
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: kind of coach that is, what are three questions that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: they might ask themselves, Bobbie? I'm thinking about becoming a coach,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: all the normal human stuff. I feel unworthy. I feel
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: not smart enough, blah, blah, blah. I get it. I'm human, self-doubt, imposter,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: all that shit. Yep, that's everybody, by the way, not
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: just you, listener. That's everybody. What are some questions that
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: we should ask ourselves to either get more clarity or
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: to get off our bum and start the process?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: Well, first, what is it that I define as coaching?
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Because what you are thinking about getting into may or
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: may not be coaching. And that's fine. The second thing is, well,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: what is it about however I define this that makes
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: me have an affinity for it enough to dedicate a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: large portion of my life to developing competency in it?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: And am I willing to let go of what I
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: think I know?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: About change and transformation and explore like one thing, like
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: pick up motivational interviewing and read through and say, Oh wow,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: what do I notice about the way they're engaging or
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: how they handle discord or resistance when it comes up?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: Is this what I see myself doing? Something like this
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: because it's based on evidence, you know, it's like, Nobody
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: who has created these empirical models or styles of conversation
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: has had an agenda about communicating in one way versus another.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: It's been tested over time. Can I see myself doing this?
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: I think that's important.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Tier 40 or 3 or 2 or 1, whatever. Awesome.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I think it was interesting because I had a family
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: member where we had this conversation just recently and they
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: do some beauty and some Reiki healing and have gotten
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: into that holding space and energy kind of work. And
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: she said, I'm thinking about doing a counselling course because
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: it seems like people come to me and maybe that's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: a thing I should do and what course should I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: do and should I do it? And my answer or
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: my question to them was if what, what is it
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: you want to, how do you want to use that
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: qualification or that piece of learning? And is there something
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: that you can start to do now that starts to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: play in a space to see where you want to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: take it? Cause you may not need that. You may
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: not need that particular thing. Um, similar to, you know,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, you did it almost a decade ago. I
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: sat in your lounge room with like, was it 10
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: other people, nine other people for your first group mentoring and,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: and you've you put your hand up and said, I
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: want to do this thing, and you did a Craigified
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: version of a group session to figure out what can
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: I offer and what does it look like and do
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I like it and how do I– well, I think
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: if we don't do that first, how do we know
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: what course or qualification or thing we really want to
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: do or if we're even good at it?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Also, think about this, right? So all of us were
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: personal trainers initially. Bobby and I for a very long time,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: you for quite a while. The thing that you're talking
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: about least is fucking their body.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Like I would spend 58 of the 60 minutes, obviously
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: I would train my clients, but all we would do
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: is talk about their stuff. All we're doing is talking
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: about their husband or their wife or their insecurity or
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: their self-doubt or their kid's teacher or Or the next
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: door neighbor who's a fucking idiot or their mom that
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: never told them they're loved or, you know, like you're having,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: you're coaching anyway, you're counseling or you're therapizing, whatever it is,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: but you're in the ballpark. And the amount of times
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I'm talking to people about progressive overload or whatever, you know,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: or micros or macros or adaptation, it's like hardly ever.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: But what we're talking about is how they feel around
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: their dad and what their dad doesn't do and what
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: they wish their dad would do. So I think if
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: you work, if you grow up in that personal training space,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: you've almost been trained. Yeah. I bet you, I don't know, Bobby,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: did you do that? I feel like you were maybe
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit more responsible than me. But did you
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: end up playing in that space where you're just talking
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: to people about their stuff?
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: In the very beginning, yes. And then I got, I think,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: and I got to be honest, Craig, this is probably
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: one of my weaknesses as a trainer. I think I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: was a really good trainer of trainers. I don't think
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: I was a very good trainer because in between sets,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: we're not talking about your weekend. We're definitely not talking
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: about your dad.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: That's all I was talking about.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: We are talking about, and I'm going somewhere with this,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: We were talking about what happened in the last set,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: what we learned and what we're going to do in
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: the next set. So there was no focus on anything
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: else other than the training session and movement analysis. And
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: I feel one of one of our instructors for pta
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: global we were we were at a conference in loughborough
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: england and one night we're talking she's like you might
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: this person might be so packed during the day and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: talking about these things sporadically in between sets might be
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: exactly what they need to keep them consistent So you're not,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: you're dictating not only what they're doing, but how it
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: should feel and how it should show up. Because for you,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: the science is really important. And it's like, you're not
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: considering the experience of the member, which is kind of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: interesting because you always talk about experience. So you're kind
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: of hypocritical. And I was like, wow, man. And then
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: I went back and I met with a client. That
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: was your weekend. He wanted to talk about his wife.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: And he lit up just holding that space. Did we
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: have like the right ratio of work to rest? I
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: don't know, but it probably encouraged him to stick with
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: me longer. Um, and she, and she was right. And
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: I think you got to know the difference. And sometimes
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: it's a different experience with each client. Sometimes you gotta
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: be laser focused on acute variable manipulation. on tempo and biomechanics.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, something's going on next session. You're
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit more open and fluid. And it's talking about, geez,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: this was my experience growing up with dad. I think
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: there's an art and a science. So yeah, the short
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: answer for me is not nearly enough. I didn't allow
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of space for that as a trainer.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Well, you turned out all right. How can people connect
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: with you, mate?
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: Ah, the self-help antidote. We have started that podcast again.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: They can find me on LinkedIn.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: Send me a message, pop it to a feed.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Not that I'm upset, but I notice I keep clicking
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: on refresh on my emails to see my invitation to
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: your show. But, oh, well, Tiff apparently is a fucking regular,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: but I can't even get an occasional gig. So that's
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: all right. That's all right.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Wait, but I thought we're co-hosts on this show.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Well, so is she.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like the goalpost is always moving.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: Do you want me to give you two some privacy
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: next time?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 7: This is a joint show. I feel like my feelings
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 7: have been hurt. Tiff, where can people find you? Would
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 7: you like to come on my show? It's like we
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 7: live in the same flat. And it's like, well, do
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 7: we do this in the lounge room or do we
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 7: do this in the den?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: Like, whatever.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: You go on her show. She goes on your show.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: And little fat jumbo sitting over in these little dinghy
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: in the ocean of aloneness getting no fucking love from you.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: Even though I give you a hard time every podcast,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: I'm very sorry.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: How do people find you?
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: You can find me regularly appearing on the Self-Help Antidote.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: As well as rolling the punches.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck you too. I'm going to get some coaching
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: after this. All right, you're both dickheads. Bye.