Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / Why Boxing Might Actually Be Broken

Transcript

Why Boxing Might Actually Be Broken · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Told you it's a long break.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on with Tris Dixon, in my opinion, my favorite boxing writer ever of my career.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Been a huge mentor to myself when I was at boxing scene.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say enough good things about Tris Dixon of Total Boxing,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: but Tris, thank you for humoring me and joining the show.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Lukie.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite guys in boxing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We had a hell of a run for, what was it, like three years, three, four years.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was a wild, wild ride.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And some of my,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: in fact,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: one of my best memories was probably being ringside in San Bernardino with you for
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: a Lester Martinez fight.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great night out there.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a bender for me because I got my I've ever done this one, Tris,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: where you get a plane ticket and you get both your return and your departing
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: the same day.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when I checked in, I got both of my tickets the same day.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I knew I was really living.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that was a fun night.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Lester kind of became another next level guy that night against Joe Sean James.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he stopped him early, didn't he?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: people were going in there thinking it was going to be a 50-50 and he sort
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: of just blew them away.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good night.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was one where also typical ProBox TV wound up with a ton of blood on my laptop.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I also remember I had like the,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: we'll call it the smaller version Fury video getting up.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like ringside filming Joe Sean getting up and it was kind of like
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: a he's out,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: wait, he stood up moment, which was kind of cool to see very, very up close.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a good night.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then we went back and we didn't have some Mexican food or something afterwards.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll always remember it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's always funny.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: You remember that stuff more than sometimes the big moments everyone wants to talk about.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, tell me about this big consequential fight.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about San Bernardino with Tris and what we ordered
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: the Mexican restaurant and all that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: But let's talk about kind of the ugly stuff right now.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is boxing broken?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've been reading Total Boxing,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: obviously, on your Substack, which is going to be linked in this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing work, as always, with your writing.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way that you put your sentences together,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: not just to kiss up to you, but I really enjoy it as a fan of boxing.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what the heck is going on with this sport we love?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you know what?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know people, this isn't a new take, right?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously I know that Gary Jonas at Pro Box have been saying boxing is broken.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen people like Oscar say it,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen Dan Raphael say it's the worst it's ever been.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen this like sway of people saying it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I don't think it's fixed and brilliant by any stretch.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's great for those people who are Making good money via Russian oligarchs or Saudi money.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: But for those outside of those tent posts, it's not quite the same.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: But those people inside the tent are telling us how good it is.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: But everyone else outside of it has felt the pinch.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, as a consequence, Lukie,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: what I did,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: and you know I'm not big on socials,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: is I put something up on my ex and said, is boxing broken?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I put a little poll up, just a yes or no.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the very fact that I put up yes or no Alluded to the fact that it was a bit of
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: a throwaway because as I was pulled up by some people, there was like no nuance.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: There was no like, well, it's been better, but it's not broken or there was no in between.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was yes or no.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of just thinking that it's just a straight question just to tease some reactions.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I put the poll up for like 24 hours and it got like a thousand votes.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's interesting.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then more than a hundred comments.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I can't just waste this.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to turn it into a piece.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously I write, got 3000 words deep into a piece and, and had about 3000 words left.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, well, let's run this over two pieces.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know that boxing is... Boxing has been broken for years and years.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is broken in different ways presently.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think boxing is broken.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: It has been broken and it will stay broken for a while.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's carnage at the moment, though.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I will say.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just chaos out there.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get into the weeds of the chaos because it feels...
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think the belt issue, how does that play into if boxing's broken or not?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it does make me think easy come, easy go.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't recall, and someone might be able to pick this out.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can't recall someone giving up a belt that they fought 12 torturous rounds for.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes you think easy come, easy go.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like these guys who might have had it,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: let's call them via email,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: email champs, they are more willing to part with their belts than if they've gone...
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hell for leather against an opponent and earns it in the ring.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a different kind of attachment to it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's also,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: there is a flip in the culture now where I can't say they mean less because
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: to some people they clearly mean a lot,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: but to other people they are just chasing the bag.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're just chasing the money.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I sympathize with that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like at short career,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: all the cliches we've heard, you've got to make the money while you can and get out.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But there is something called legacy and doing things the right way.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a particularly new phenomenon, but there's been a clutch of them recently.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously Hamza Shiraz is one who's had a lot of negative publicity
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: for giving his belt back.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he's one that,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: had he fought a real danger man and won the title,
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: maybe he wouldn't have given it back.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, he's had two very so-so fights in his last couple of fights.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he must be thinking, well, there's got to be more to it than this.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: He was offered,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: but obviously we're going into a bit of a segue here
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: because he was offered good money,
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think around three quarters of a million bucks to fight Janabek.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he's given up the title and he's saying,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: obviously, people saying they don't want him to fight a drug cheat.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But he's probably interested in the Canelo fights still.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Canelo's obviously popped in the past.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that he's worth more than that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was market value.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: There were two bids on that fight.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: That was the top bid.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what it's worth.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, Saudi money has come in.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's distorted the market.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And people are still holding out for the Saudi bag.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there might be a handful more.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it does seem like that money is drying up somewhat.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we've even been told it's not what it was a couple of years ago.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people might be holding out for these phantom purses
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: that might not even exist any longer.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's a good point.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like we look at a fighter like Devin Haney, who I really, really like.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming off that Brian Norman Jr. win.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yet he might not fight in 2026, which is wild.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that was his only fight post-Garcia.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean he would have fought once in about three years?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: He had the Ramirez fight between, but it was so dreadful, I don't blame you for forgetting.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, that was the Times Square one.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was talking about the Times Square thing more than they were the fights.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a shame.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: this is one of the other things that came up with the Boxing Broken stuff is
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: the inactivity of major fighters.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Shakur signed for Zufa earlier this year and they've got no one for him to fight.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: people like Shakur,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: like these guys aren't in their prime for long and they're missing huge chunks
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: of their prime and big opportunities to become...
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: it used to be,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: and I know time's got on and we're not living in the past,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: but it used to be,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: a big fight came up and let's just say,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: say a fighter boxed in February,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: they would be in the news and in the media the whole week up to the fight.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then for many days after the fight,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: if it was a big fight, you know, we've, Review of the fight.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Speak to the trainer.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So for two weeks in a year,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: they're kind of relevant, but they were also doing that three or four times a year.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that meant eight to 10 weeks a year.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're in the public eye.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes they are, they're doing less media.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're less boxing writers.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's less people covering boxing in the newspapers and the mainstream media.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And these guys are relevant for a week, a year.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And really,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: the people are only really picking up maybe from a fight announcement
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: and they disappear for 10 weeks.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then they pop up on the press conference on a Thursday.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: You might do a picture and story on the weigh-in on a Friday and the fight is Saturday.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's kind of it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the news cycle's over.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So these two-week news cycles now are now down to three days.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of three or four times a year, they may be once a year.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So these guys just aren't in the public eye.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think of this this week, the WBA title fight between body and Lucas body.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I should say both names and Floyd Schofield.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's Thursday.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about the fight.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a no media workout, probably a 30 minute press conference.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We could maybe guess the answers of the fighters.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not expecting something fascinating from this presser.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then you hope the fight delivers.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just seems as me as a boxing fanatic, I'm having trouble getting inspired.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which scares me because how does a casual interest person get inspired?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully get that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I think one of the things you mentioned there is like the fight week stuff.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like it's time to change the format from public workouts, press conference, weigh-in.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Fights, like it's rinse and repeat.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's become really lazy and monotonous,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: not just to people covering it, but to the boxers.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: The boxers don't come out and do a public workout, do they?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: They come out and do a bit of shadow, maybe a bit of pads at best.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or they come out and they grab the microphone and say maybe six lines of quotes
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: if they don't want to do anything.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then they disappear.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they're kind of non-events.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said at the press conferences,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: like now,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that you need to get rid of press conferences,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: but they need to be looked at because they're all the same.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And no one's asking sensible questions.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: No one's asking questions that really mean anything or that haven't been asked in
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: the first press conference or anything else.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like there does need to be,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: some for corporate terminology,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: some blue sky thinking and think like, OK, how do we take this on to the next level?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we've been doing now for the last 20 years.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do we evolve the product?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's stale.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same thing with some of the build-up programming.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You see these face-offs or head-to-heads.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Even with guys with no beef, I'm like, don't use that format.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now they've saturated that format by running it with people
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: who didn't really care or have much to say about each other.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: They should have saved that for the grudges and the interesting ones.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: But they kind of just thought, no,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: let's put everyone in a dark room,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: put these two guys in a dark room,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: give them a moderator,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll just reel this out and I've seen some terrible ones of those.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it used to be that they were a bit special and they were held back for special fights.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, now they're pretty much meaningless.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like there's, and by the way, I'm not saying I've got the answers.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've got some ideas,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: but I'd love to see some proper thinking,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: maybe from either casual fans or fans from other sports.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like what would they like to see in a fight week that would make them think,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I might watch that fight.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with you.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think that like the thing that used to impress me about
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: a media workout was seeing how elite a fighter is,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know, some trait like the hand speed or something.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now it just feels like, as you said, I'm waking up.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tired and I'm just going to begrudgingly show up and do a phoned in shadow box,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: quote a rapper, one spiritual reference to my theology and then I'm out of here.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we definitely need to get back to like what makes these people amazing
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: or finding motivations for sure.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I feel like there's got to be something there.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And these guys find it all a chore now.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like the amount of people that are out there wanting their piece of the pie
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: to get these guys and to answer the same questions.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're all fed up with it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and I...
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lazy reference,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: but it's one I revert to often,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: is Tank Davis missed his own grand arrival against Frank Martin
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: because he didn't want to speak to the media because he's fed up with doing
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: the same thing over and over.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I sympathize with it because they get these cameras thrust in their face
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: and everyone says, how was training camp?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think of Frank Martin?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, he must be like, dude, that's the 50th time I've said that today.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Yeah, it's frustrating for these guys.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to do it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And even me now, setting up Total Boxing, going on my own thing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've known some of these trainers,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: fighters for 25 years and I've phoned them and I feel bad because I know
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: that people just don't want to do it anymore.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: They don't like speaking to media.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the reason is And this is like another segue,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: but because people are grabbing what they say and turning them
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: into clickbait headlines and taking them out of context.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And people hate that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: They hate that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: But people are happy to do that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So say I've got a good interview with Tony Sims coming later on today.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know one of the lines that people are going to run with him talking
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: about Conor Benn fighting Conor McGregor.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, but,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: and there's,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: there's, there's context to it, but it's going to be taken out of context.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure I'll see these thumbnails and graphics around the internet
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: where it's like Tony Sims says Connor versus Connor is likely to happen and all
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: the rest of it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, like that was framed at the end of a 25 minute conversation.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about many options for Connor,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: including retirement,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: but you're going to take it in that,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know, almost take that as gospel that, yeah, that's, that's a green light.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's run with that one.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I also think the advent of content creation was both a gift and a curse.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Content creators coming to Fight Week give people large exposures,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: but also there's a different...
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like they want to go viral.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: They want to get views.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas maybe a traditional journalist or someone that has love and dignity for
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: the sport is looking to like,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: how can we historically place where a fighter stands and maybe,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, have a little bit more care and dignity.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there's been, how do I say this politely?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: That line has gotten obscured.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the fighters haven't made the differential between like,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe they make it go, okay, I'll talk to Tris, but I don't talk to reporters.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like what's happened is there's been a level of people doing
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: the clickbait stuff for their own benefit.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of frustrated me in the boxing lane lately.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: because I know, Lukie,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: you have great relationships with these guys,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Bobby Benton and Oshaki Foster and different people like that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you look after them because you build relationships with these guys.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what the general clickbaity guys aren't doing because they're not around
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: or they're not on the scene is they're not trying to build
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: or harvest good relationships with people.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: They are looking for clicks and hits.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: they're happy to throw people under the bus and Because they don't have
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: a pre-existing relationship.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is as well, you can do that, but you burn your bridges.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you got several Oshaki Foster exclusives for us over the last two,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: three years that no one got because you harvest that relationship.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you do have to play a little bit of a game.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: But this isn't just boxing, by the way.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this earlier, just doing some domestic chores.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking like,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: because people like,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: they want everyone in boxing to get outraged and be anti-establishment and
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: to be overreactive and hyperreactive to everything that's out there.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do and work with people.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be any line of work.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: You could be in a supermarket.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you might not like Walmart's mode of business.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean you're going to be at the checkout of Walmart,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: blasting Walmart and how it runs to all the clients and all the shoppers, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get along.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not, again, that's not saying that you can't do anything or shouldn't do anything.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: But what are you doing?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are you in the game to build relationships, build a career?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you just looking to burn everything to the ground?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to ask you about Zufa Boxing.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then to another extent, I guess, two part question, worst question ever.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like it feels like Zufa Boxing comes with people being afraid of
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: the Ali Act and the UBOs coming in the future and a promoter,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: any promoter having the power to be a sanctioning body.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: But more so,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's like Zufa Boxing is entering the establishment
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: and people are I wouldn't say people.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say that there's a A sense that it's inevitable.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious to get your take on that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And is that how does that fit into this landscape?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that more of a fix or is that more of kind of what we're seeing right now?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a tough one, isn't it?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a fix necessarily.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: as well,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: what's important is that obviously any changes with the R.A.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Revival Act are going to only work in America.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean anything globally.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And boxing is We might traditionally call it an American sport, but it's not that any longer.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's power brokers outside of the US.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so whatever changes are made there won't apply around the world.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's different.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's trepidation around the Zufa thing because they came in
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: so aggressively with their talk of wanting to take over.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to banish the sanctioning bodies.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do eight weight classes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to work with anyone.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do our own thing.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to take over.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that fighting talk probably scared the life out of just about everyone
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: from journalists who then thought they're not going to get any access to promoters
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: who thought they were going to be on the outside looking in to sanctioning bodies
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: who thought they were probably all going to be out of business.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they came in and they were so bullish with Dana that it probably freaked out
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: the establishment.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore they then started to get Pushback slash negativity.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And with the Ali Revival Act,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: obviously the big issue is A lot of it comes down to the transparency with
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: the contracts and people wanting to see where the money goes,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: how the money comes in, how it's distributed.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously with the UBO format,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: none of that is going to, you don't require that same transparency.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: The boxing that you can have now,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: if you've got lawyers,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there aren't many fighters that actually do use it for what it is,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: but they have the ability to.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And once that UBO format Or once the UBOs come in and everything changes,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: they'll lose that privilege.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of what you said, does it seem inevitable?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wrote,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: a piece for Boxing Scene a few weeks ago,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: months ago, where I said it felt inevitable.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this is obviously when you factor in the power.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of the people involved with,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: that TKO set of Dana White,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nick Khan,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Ari Emanuel,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: obviously the Saudi power brokers behind them and all the way into the White House
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: and their relationship with Donald Trump.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, it's felt inevitable, isn't it?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, blimey, the UFC had a show on the White House lawn.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've got,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: they've got,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: they've probably got, you know, I'm sure they've got Donald Trump on speed dial.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they can arrange anything.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: the way it's gone through,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: when you look into it,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: and I know people like John Nash and the MMA draw have been all over it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: When you look into it,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: it's very,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: it seems to be going through some,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: it seems to very clearly make its way around any obstacles that pop up.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: They sort of go very, very quickly, either over, around or through to get it done.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I still can't read the Zufa situation.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: My question,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: and you're making me think, Tris,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: you're making me have too many questions,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: is boxing turning into something that private equity is trying to acquire?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that feels like Zufa is trying to consolidate the sport
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: to some degree and then sell it to be a commercial product,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: which I guess is what every promoter tries to do.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it just seems like they have the power behind it where there's actually
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: a chance this could happen and there could be one big voice as opposed to
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: a fractured sport.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, look,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Lukie, I'm not going to say sit here and say that that's not what boxing is needed.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are elements of that idea, which in fact would give us a boxing utopia.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm talking about here is,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if this would come in,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure it wouldn't,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: but let me just say what I'm clear about is if everything was under one roof,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: can you imagine if someone failed a drug test somewhere
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: and they were banned everywhere or suspended everywhere and it was uniformed
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: and you couldn't fight until your suspension was up,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: you couldn't do media, you couldn't do this, that and the other.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: For your six months,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: your year, your two years, your four years, however long you were bound for.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there was no Creeping around the back in another state.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine if you failed a medical based on health issues and
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: then you couldn't get a license somewhere else?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't creep in the back door because someone wasn't as strict
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: or they didn't do such and such a brain scan or they didn't do such and such
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: an eye test.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there was uniformity in looking after the fighters and also as long
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: as we're creating a utopian wish list,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Are they going to then create one of these great things we talked about
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: where we've got a pension fund and looking after old fighters?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you've got everything under one roof,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: there's no reason why you can't put these structures and pillars in place
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: where you can really start to focus on fighter safety and looking after the fighters
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: during and after their careers,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's creating a level playing field with players.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Proper, thorough,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: independent drug testing and looking after them with regards to medicals and life
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: after boxing.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: If they're going to create some kind of utopia,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: let's actually look a way how we can look after the fighters from top to bottom.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's often what gets missed is where do the fighters fit in and
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: that kind of all segue into another thing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Eddie Hearn and Dana White seem to be at the forefront instead
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: of Anthony Joshua versus Tyson Fury.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that occurring?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we now talking more about the promoters rather than the people risking their lives?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they've got terrific followings, haven't they?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: They've got millions upon millions of followers.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So people are tuning in for it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And also like the stakes are high and they've been talking up a lot of smack
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: and they've got to back up.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is going something back.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's been going back and forth really all year since,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: do you remember when they were talking about actually fighting each other?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think Dana laid down a challenge and Eddie took it up and then it's like,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: well, you know, we don't need to do this.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's catnip, isn't it?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, it's that it's to that cottage industry.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: someone pointed this out to me the other day and it was interesting
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: because I was saying like it's sort of brought the YouTube channels back to life,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know, where everything's going crazy for the Dana, Eddie talks.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at Eddie's interviews and someone said this to me,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: they sort of plateaued on his usual online outlets that he uses.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: About six months ago,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: four months ago, but now they dropped something and people are invested in it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be fine to stop talking about it, but it's what people want.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And before I left Boxing Scene, I was looking at the back end and the analytics.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: People are drinking up the feud.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're drinking up the rivalry.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: let's be real,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: maybe if AJ and Fury had a lot to say and were putting stuff out there, then...
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: There'd be more to take from them and the promoters would be getting less airtime.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously AJ is working on a Netflix documentary or Netflix series,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: a four parter,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: and they'll be with him trying to get all the best stuff from this camp.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Fury is always doing a Netflix thing.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's into what, season three, I think.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll be doing their own private stuff.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Netflix aren't,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're being quite,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: as far as I know,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: selfish with, in terms of not allowing the fighters to speak to anyone else.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand that if they're paying the bill,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: but like the fighters, they're not saying anything.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: They've just retreated to their camps for the next 10 weeks.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not going to get anything new out of them.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also like, They didn't leave many breadcrumbs in the press conference, did they?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was all quite pally and friendly and a bit of a non-event really
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: after you'd seen them on the stage for the first time together.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there's not much to go on and this is the fuel.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, you mentioned the Schofield baddie fight this weekend, but it's not huge.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next week we've got Wardley Dubois and then I know there's Oshaki and
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: then Dalton Smith,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: but Like the rest of the year,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's going to be looking at Joshua and Fury and seeing that that's
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: where the money's going to be made because these casual boxers,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: boxing fans are going to be looking at that date
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: and thinking there's pretty much nothing on the calendar until that date.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the eyeballs are going to go.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Those casuals are going to go.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the nature of this beast.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've obviously been the editor of Boxing News and I've seen the spikes for big fights.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to the Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe days, you could see the spikes for sales.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then we put someone else on the cover.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: They go down.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's the same thing now with Fury and AJ in terms of online.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I could do an interview with someone else or you're doing this interview
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: with me now, probably drop down.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you get someone on just to speak about Fury,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: AJ and Dana White and Eddie Hearn, it will probably pop back up.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are looking for this stuff.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, Lukie, why it's big, but it was big when Eddie and Frank were at war as well.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So people love this and the YouTube guys love to provide it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it does great numbers for them.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think the interesting thing about this one with Dana and Eddie is no one's got
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: a clue how it plays out because Dana's got the power,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: the real power behind it with TKO, Sela and the whole shooting match.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Eddie is a rich guy in his own right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't even need the boxing because he's got his snooker,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: he's got his darts and everything else where a match for him is very comfortable.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he doesn't need that, but he seems to be enjoying it way more than Dana is.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Dana doesn't seem to be enjoying what he's doing at all.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's getting cross, he's getting wound up, he's getting frustrated.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he says he loves boxing,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: but you know as well as I do, Lukie,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: there's one thing loving boxing when you're going and watching,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: and he's talked about Vinnie Paz and Floyd Mayweather and watching those fights
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: and being close to those fights.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing when you immerse yourself in it 24-7,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he's never had to immerse himself in it the way that he has now in order to try
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: and keep up with what Eddie's putting out there.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, the interest is what you just alluded to, the power struggle of the future of boxing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: To me,
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: it's like Dana versus Eddie is potentially the battle for who controls the majority
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: of the big fights in the future.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been the intrigue in seeing those.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's why Eddie's dug his heels in for this particular battle, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is a battle, this is a war.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is where he's saying, no, I'm going to draw a line in the sand.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, Dana was saying all this year, let's see how we finish the year.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how, you know, judge us by where we are at the year.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if they are,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: if they do have a significant hand on putting in Joshua Fury,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: the end of the Zufa boxing year is going to look considerably brighter
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: and more successful than if they're not doing it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're not doing it and the Zufa Boxing year ends with,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: what if they got the Chris Billum-Smith fight with Shev Clark and Denzel Bentley,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Shane Mosley Jr. on the bill.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: If that's how their year ends and maybe one or two other shows,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's not moved the needle dramatically, has it?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if it ends with Fury Joshua and it's a Zufa show,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: and particularly if Turkey,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Al-El Sheik is going to get involved less and less,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: which is an assumption rather than a fact,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: but it almost marks the handover from Turkey to Dana and Zufa is to say,
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: look, I've given you this big event here.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's all yours now.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: You guys take it from here.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to also ask you, last week you broke some big news about the DAZN ring deal.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think that fits in,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: given that
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: you're so close to that situation and you were the breaking news on that?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know, Lukie.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really have the answers for that.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be watching.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I can see that there's already changes.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen Inside the Ring and DAZN collaborating on their stuff with the return of
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: the Inside the Ring show with...
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mario Lopez coming in for Max Kellerman.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would be interested in...
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what DAZN's plans are for Ring.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at it, both Ring and DAZN have their own social media guys.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: They've got their own video guys.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: They've got their own teams of writers.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: When mergers take place, generally...
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Jobs go at some point.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want to speculate about that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because I just don't know.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: it might be that there's enough money,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: there's enough work going around where everyone keeps,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: they're able to do what they do.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very interesting time.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I don't know that a network-owning ring is...
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is infinitely better than what we've had, but we'll see.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know obviously what we have had hasn't been a sparkling 24 months
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: for boxing journalism.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do an unfounded conspiracy theory corner with me,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: which is how scared are the sanctioning bodies?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: If there's potentially Zufa maybe brings in a belt,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: if the UBO goes,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: if DAZN has maybe a ring belt,
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: where do the sanctioning bodies fit in professional boxing if that were to be
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: the case in 2028?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it would, but that's what boxing looks like in 2028.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where do the sanctioning bodies stand?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we don't have the easy answer for that.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, some are in stronger positions than others, right?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, when you look at the WBC and Rizio Suleman, He clearly has some sway still.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: He manages to get himself front and center.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was taught that he wasn't going to be that Garcia-Ben, but he was.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Even with Dana White pulling him on into a picture saying, look, come and do one with Maurizio.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was quite an interesting thing.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Zufa are playing ball to the extent where they had
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: the IBF middleweight title fight with Aaron McKenna in Ireland, didn't they?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can't see it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: when you look at the WBA situation,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: you think the WBA is somewhat of a considerable laughingstock by this point.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Also, they're now working with Zufa,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: you'd imagine,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: or Netflix to get the WBA heavy,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: superweight, super, super heavyweight title on the line for Fury Joshua.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's mad, isn't it?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's mad.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, This could be the thing where they're almost used as agents just for a bit
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: of decoration on big fights moving forward.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're all nervous, aren't they?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can see with their reaction.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're all very nervous and have been since Dana came in and said that he wanted
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: to do away with them all.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably all going to squirm and try and make themselves important
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: and valuable in any which way that they can.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not unlike me and social media, but...
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: My next thing was, when did boxing leave America?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: When did Britain and the rest of the world feel like more of a cultural hub
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: to boxing than the U.S.?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because the U.S. is basically a non-factor currently.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's probably two things, really.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: When the heavyweight division left,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: and I know that you guys have obviously had Deontay over there,
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: but when the heavyweight division left,
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: With Evander really after that,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd guess,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: the Klitschko's dominance and then the Brits taking over from Klitschko's with Fury,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Joshua and Dubois and Wardley and everyone that we've had.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then also the other thing would be the Olympics, right?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what was your last gold medalist Andre Ward in 2004?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we'll probably get one in 2028 because we're hosting it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like the host country always gets a gold medal Olympian magically.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you'd like to think as well, by laws of probability, you do one.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been 24 years.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say that's not great either, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the USA Boxing Program and the inability to get elite amateurs.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say not even elite amateurs over the line, but to get elite amateurs where...
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's one of the things that is flawed with the amateur system
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: over there, but obviously you've written about countless guys who...
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Turn over.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how many national titles they've won,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: but like sometimes it seems like they've won 20 national titles.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how have you done that?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because to win an ABA in this country
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: and our amateur boxing association championships, to win that is a big deal.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you win it once, that's big.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you win it twice, that's really going somewhere.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you do it three times, you're in rarefied air.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: There aren't many three-time national champions here,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: but you guys have like 15-time national champions, 20-time national champions.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's different,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't know if it's too easy for them or there's a lack of competition.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'd say that's been the switch really is the...
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of Olympics and star amateurs coming through for you and the lack of
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: a heavyweight because obviously there is that old,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: somewhat lazy saying, as the heavyweight division goes, so boxing goes.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not been one for America of late.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And even with Deontay Wilder,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: let's be honest,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: obviously many,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: many defenses,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: some crushing knockouts,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: lots of entertaining slugfests, but his resume is awfully shallow.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that like right now there's this Zufa Boxer,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Damazian Van Hooter, and there's a lot of hope for him with Mozzie.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: that's he almost fits the bill of every American heavyweight,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: which is like you're big enough to be a heavyweight.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I have strong concerns that you might be a cruiserweight.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I felt that way about Jared Anderson.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that way about Richard Torres.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just go slow.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like heavyweight is...
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a Joshua
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Edwards fan?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like he might be a little too small.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's weird because the weight isn't small.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: But when I look at him compared to some of these other guys,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like obviously working with Ronnie Shields,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: he's one of the best coaches in the world.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Ronnie can get you there.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Combination is a lot of these guys are a little bit too small for heavyweight
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: for like what the top guys are physically.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a rush in America to get that heavyweight up to that point you said.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So these guys don't really get to develop.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're just kind of pushed into these spots because the money's so good.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for Edwards, he's going to have to do it on the fly.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's always reminded me of like a Steve Cunningham.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: When I remember I watched him in 2019 at Eastern, I liked him a lot.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, I don't know.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm just old.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I don't understand heavyweight boxing because it is different.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the American heavyweights, I've had questions about, are they a heavyweight?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are they a bridgerweight?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are they a cruiserweight?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like right now,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: heavyweight,
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: especially with guys like Caballel and Daniel Dubois, those are big, powerful guys.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: So size is part of the equation to beat a guy like that.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I see that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I see that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, as well, like it's fair to say, though, like America has its share of stars.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, look at Shakur, look at Devin Haney, look at Ryan Garcia.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is a very...
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Powerful unit of fighters.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very good.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: High level.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Pound for pound.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Look at Bam Rodriguez.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: They are star fighters.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like it's completely barren.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's probably no country with four elite talents like that in the rest of
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: the world right now.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I guess from an American perspective, we've been always the cultural hub of boxing.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And now we don't get traditional Las Vegas shows.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of shows like next week's show,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: even though there's a big show over here,
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: it's really the Wardley, Dubois, run it back film.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: They were probably all putting on about 10 shows a year, weren't they?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call it 30.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's 30 fight cards.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're getting...
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've not done the math,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Lukie, but they're not putting on 30 cards between them in a year.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like not even close.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what the deals are and how many shows they are putting on, but it's not that.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: those big,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: those broadcast deals that had,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: that Top Rank had with ESPN, for example, I'm sure DAZN can't match that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And PBC, I know, is still with Prime and Golden Boy with DAZN, but like,
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be something coming in at the zone where they're like,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: okay, look, these are the stables that we've got.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: These are the dates we've got.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to rotate these.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: So say they've got six big promoters.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: They can start a six-week cycles.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And say we're going to do top rank week one.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do match from week two.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do PBC week three.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do Golden Boy week four.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do Queensbury week five.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: We do Boxer and Solita week six.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll just rotate that.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got every six weeks to put your stars out.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you could do a Friday night one with one of the other, like on a lag.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So Queensbury have a Saturday night.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: The following week they have a Friday night with slightly smaller stars.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, contender style series or up and comers.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then they could rotate something,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: but they need to build some sort of structure where it doesn't seem quite so hit
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: and miss.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I looked at the top rank show for Oshaki the other day,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: and I think even yesterday,
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's only four fights on that bill at the minute.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure it's going to have four fights on it when it's done.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what's that like a week or two away?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's only got four fights on it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen the Shockey Foster.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that fight card's done.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: The one that I'm thinking of is the Fundora versus the fighter.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't pronounce his name.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a three-fight bill because I was trying to do research on the undercard,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: and there's no prelims listed so far.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, this is, this is the same thing.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's going on.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then look,
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: the Canelo fight is the end of the month and a,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: we can't be completely sure it's going to be in Saudi,
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: but also they've not announced an undercard for that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they did the same thing with Joshua Prengo.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was two weeks out and they announced that Josh Kelly was going
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: to defend his world title on the bill and whatever else was on it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they announced that card two weeks out.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, This is not a way to attract a new crowd, new fight.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: In fact,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: if anything,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's a way to drive old people away because the people are like,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know what's coming up.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're just going to hit me at the last minute.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to wait and see what it is.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or you forget.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you don't have any anticipation.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: You go, oh, I missed Jaime Munguia coming back.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Question for you,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: who in British boxing offers you enthusiasm and hope in terms of fighters coming up?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who are the people?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it could be globally,
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm just kind of curious, British, but take it general if you want.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an easy question because,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: when AJ and Fury goes,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: the drop to the big names, which would probably then be Conor Benn and Chris Eubank.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is steep.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then even the drop off from that to a Ben Whittaker is even steeper.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so at the top,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's a struggle to see who's going to fill the void, let alone at the bottom.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the one that is jumping out at me at the moment
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: and he made his debut last weekend is Odell Kamara,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: the kid from Liverpool who made his debut on, God, what bill was that last weekend?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whitaker versus Connor Wallace.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think Odell looked particularly impressive.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: He was good in the first round,
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: tried too hard in the second round,
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: and then got the job done in the third round, I think.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to have seen a lot more composure, but it's one fight in, and he's young.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's something there where it's very exciting, and he talks the talk.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's had a big reputation for a couple of years in the amateurs.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's exciting.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from that,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: well, not aside from that, he's the one that I think has, this is what he's got.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's got star power.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's got, in inverted commas, it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's something there.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's...
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's got like a lot of marketability around him and a lot of likability.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just got to slow it down a little bit.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's something there.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if he is as good as he perhaps can be and gets to where he could be,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: he could carry British boxing on his back.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's got...
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to talk him up too much, but you asked the question.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to put too much pressure on him, but...
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: He ticks a lot of boxes in terms of what a blue chip sponsor would want to see.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I also think he got put in a hard position, pro debut co-main event.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always talk about for fighters,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: there's the girls in the crop tops,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: there's the guys from the local bar,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: they're yelling and screaming,
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: and it's hard for a young guy to stay composed in that moment.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think you're right.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but then, you know, he's in a team.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a manager, Sam Jones.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's got trainer, Tony Sims.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the sort of stuff you need to guard against, isn't it?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's where you think like, oh, you know, what are the traps that you could fall into?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd spoken to Odell ahead of time and I swapped a message with him,
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think on the fight day.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I nearly said, I nearly said in his message, like, take your time.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't because it's not my place,
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: but he didn't take his time and he sort of looked a bit rushed in the second round.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: But blimey, this is why you have early career fights, right?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: You learn and you move on and you keep busy and keep active, which I believe is the plan.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you keep moving on.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you a boring story that's not that funny,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: but I think it's funny,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: is I did a smoker sparring event maybe eight years ago,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm like, oh, I'll just work with this guy, you know, another reporter.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: He hit me with the hardest right hand he had within five or six seconds,
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: and it just turned into a fight.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, oh, I'll just work with him.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be composed.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like he just pissed me off in six seconds, and all that went out the window.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I always think about that when I criticize a young fighter, is like, man...
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it, like when you get punched, you just react sometimes.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like a lot of that talking is out the window.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, Odell said afterwards, you know, he'd sold a lot of tickets.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: He could hear the crowd and,
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: like people like me gassing,
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: not gassing him up, but saying like this guy could be special, like.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's expectation there and that does weigh heavy on fighters.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you also fight through it and you move on and there's no harm done.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a perfectly serviceable debut and on you go.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Final few things.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to contextualize one last thing and then we're going to hit
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: the speed round is what is the AJ Fury fight?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just as much about the fight,
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: because both guys are pretty done,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Josh was looking terrible,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: but is it partially just the image of those two in the ring?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it not just the British,
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: that it's a big British fight,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: but is it the visual of two of the great guys from the era being in the ring,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: the bell rings and they fight?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a kind of nostalgia act to tick off that box.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: The same way that I don't think people will begrudge seeing Usyk Wilder at the minute.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the one thing I've said about the Fury-Joshua fight,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: which I think will stand true, is it no longer, sadly, is about who's best.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's about who's got the most left.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sad because you want to see prime for prime who these guys are.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there were a couple of times where they could have fought,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: where they could have unified titles.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: They could have both been on hot win streaks and it never happened.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're coming at age 38, 36, coming off very so-so performances.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like, oh,
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know, and you know, it's a cash grab, you know, it's kind of like now or never.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just doing it because this is the last opportunity to make it work
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: before it completely goes away.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fine.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd rather see it than not see it.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also, Lukie,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: one thing I'll say about this is What,
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: like seven years ago, I would have said Fury wins quite comfortably.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now, I don't know, it's a shootout now.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, it is about who's got the most left.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if Joshua bangs Fury with a big right hand, it could be game over.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the fight as a sporting contest has ever been more even than it is now.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't ask for more than that.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, speed round.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're going in here.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Who was the fastest fighter you've ever seen in the gym?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Pacquiao.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, you talk about that public workout earlier.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: I saw him in public workout ahead of the clotty fight,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: and I've got a video on my phone just of watching his feet, mesmerized.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when did you realize that it was that fast?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not to dig deeper, but like, were you watching?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, holy crap, that looks like a drone helicopter propeller wings or something.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was that.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: He was skipping around in front of me and I was like watching him on the pads
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: with Freddie and he was just moving around the ring with Freddie
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: and I was just like, I've just never seen that.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he did stuff that you shouldn't necessarily do.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was crossing his feet and moving this way and that way.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, no one's getting near him anyway.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: He can do what he wants.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Most intimidating boxer.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been fortunate.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've not really met anyone who I found particularly intimidating.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Even doing stuff with Mike Tyson, I've got Mike Tyson on good days.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did a big BT sport sit down with Mike a few years ago and I obviously went there
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: with trepidation because some of my journalist buddies from here in the UK dealt
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: with a prime Mike Tyson in the late 80s and it was carnage and he'd make them wait
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: and he'd be...
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Tough to deal with and tough to communicate with.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a very, very chilled out version of Mike.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was expecting not the worst, but I wasn't expecting it to be easy.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very, very good.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've got no answer for that.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Lukie.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to give you the ones that I feel like no one's ever asked you.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go with the hardest hitter.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: I actually took Daniel Dubois on the pads on a TV show once and I was shocked
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: and it made me think and actually I was working on my book Damage at the time
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: and I remember taking a shot from Dubois on a right hand into this glove here.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought I'm working on a book about brain injuries and boxing here
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I was thinking how can someone's face and head stand up to that shot going
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: in like my whole shoulder came right around
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: and it was like I'd never felt anything like it and from there on
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: in I've fancied Dubois in every fight he's had apart from the Usyk fights and even
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: then to see someone like Usyk take a flush shot from Dubois or a big shot
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: from Dubois I'm like How can a human body take that?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Having felt that on the glove,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: on the mitt, I just don't know how these guys stand up to it and take that abuse.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously explains like,
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: and I was a big, I fancied Dubois big against Joshua for that reason.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought Joshua is going to get hit at some point.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't know who can take that.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you can say Joe Joyce did, you can say Usyk did.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm very well aware of what that power feels like.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going to be a very special person that stands up to that Dubois power
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: because it sucks, man.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious about the jab because to me,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: what impresses me about Dubois is when things get rough,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: he goes back to the jab because he has belief in the right hand.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like he jabs under distress.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one thing I can say about that, Lukie, is I...
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: The jab was the same thing as the right hand.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: I use that right hand as an example because I remember feeling that shoulder go,
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: but I remember him hitting both hands
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: and just thinking like there's just no difference.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Same sledgehammer.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've never felt anything like it.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And funny enough,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke with Tony Sims earlier who obviously trained him for a few weeks
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: and he messed up Tony's shoulders as well.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's a beast.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like power punchers,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: the jab actually is harder than the right hand if they know their distance.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they extend a jab, it hurts really bad.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: And also like when you jab with someone quite often,
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: they're jabbing and stepping to you as well.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they're stepping into it at the same time.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Dubois is really hurtful.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've probably seen bigger one punch hitters.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously I was ringside for Pacquiao getting destroyed by Marquez
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: and I've seen some absolutely huge shots through the years,
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, feeling Dubois' hands and the power behind them, I won't forget it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it astonishes me that anyone could take a shot like that in the head.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: Who surprised you the most about their career?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: A few guys that didn't make it that you thought might have done,
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: like your Frankie Gavins, who was obviously a decorated world amateur champion.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think, do you know what?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've got,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can probably,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can flip this in a slightly more positive way and say the guys
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: that I knew would get there,
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: but not necessarily through boxing knowledge, but through a hunch.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there was always like a clutch of guys who I always thought it was written
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: that they would be world champions.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they include Tony Bellew,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Darren Barker,
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Kell Brook,
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: as a couple more,
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: and I just felt all the way through their careers,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: they were going to be world champions.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they were in different ways, shape or form, but they all were world champs.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think the one who never made it that I felt convinced would be a world champ
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: at some point was Callum Johnson,
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: who obviously dropped Baturbiev in that wild three or four round shootout
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: in upstate New York.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then never...
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Got a big shot again.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: He beat Shawnee Monaghan, didn't he?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Blitzed him.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then just couldn't get big fights and couldn't get the momentum to go.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he had the capability to do it.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably the one that I thought was more nailed on to get it and felt like this...
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Best guy you saw in the gym that most fans never knew about?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: I go back to my old fighting days of sparring Leonard Pierre in the Catskill gym
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: when Kevin Rooney was training us and Leonard Pierre was dynamite
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: and I thought he was the business and he fell short.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: He got chinned in a round by John Duddy and then I think he lasted into
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: the fourth round with Kelly Pavlik but watching him in the gym was just like
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: a mini Mike Tyson and I thought Leonard was big news
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously he had those big fights with Duddy and Pavlik but It just goes to show
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: that there's levels, isn't it?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: And his level was way above mine, but it wasn't elite class.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then final question is, and then you've put up with me for long enough, is...
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have a fight coming up that I'm going to cover,
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: which is Charlie Sheehy,
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: someone that I've known for his whole life,
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: and Gabriel Flores, someone I've known for their whole life.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of an interesting thing where I've known these fighters since
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: before they were pros.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've known them basically as high school kids, in Charlie's case, middle school.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of an interesting and I'll just say it a little uncomfortable having
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: that deep of a relationship with two fighters when it's kind of a crossroads bout.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just kind of looking to you if you'd ever experienced that
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: or even just perspective on that.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just put ten bucks on both of them.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's a draw and then they're both mad.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like probably I don't know about that close.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I was starting at Boxing News,
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was always taught to be super impartial by Claude Abrams, who was my editor.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And even before that,
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: as an amateur boxer,
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: it was more about like it wasn't about who beat who and who was fighting who.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: We were amateur clubs and we had mutual respect for all amateur fighters.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always had that thing.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't really matter who won and lost.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't change your relationship with them.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't change who they are as people or what your dynamic is.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: And in answer to your question,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go back to school with any of these guys,
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I would have covered people their entire career.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like Tony Bellew and Nathan Cleveley, I covered all of them through all their careers.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: And Carl Frotch and George Grove, same thing.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would have covered them for All the way through their careers.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't have favorites or make...
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing was,
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes I would have to do a Boxing News preview and I probably would have to pick
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: a winner.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it was all based on fight breakdowns,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: viewing fight tape from experience, and then doing the interviews on Fight Week.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think my...
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Slightly related,
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: but not,
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: is I think the only time I ever interviewed someone
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: and it made me change my fight week pick was Froch.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I interviewed him ahead of his fight with Arthur Abraham.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought Abraham in Helsinki, fighter covered, was going to be...
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: A really tough fight for Froch because obviously Froch could get hit.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: He liked to tear up.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: We knew Arthur Abraham could punch.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was going to be a really tough fight.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: After I stopped speaking to Froch, I was that convinced he was going to win.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: I changed everything.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, nah, he's got this.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am sold.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that never happened to me.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that one time,
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: and I changed my pick, and Froch put on an absolutely underrated masterclass.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you've not seen Froch beat Abraham in Helsinki, it's unlike any other Froch performance.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: He absolutely peppered him for 12 rounds.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Helsinki was freezing.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was like minus 30 out there.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that was a good trip.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I covered Froch a lot in the Super 6.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: Went to Herning in Denmark for the first Kessler fight.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Went to the Glenn Johnson fight in Atlantic City.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: what I'd say about your issue is you've just got to be fair and balanced
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: and say what you see and do the same thing for both guys.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: If I was doing a fight like that for Bellew and Cleverley,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: for Frochgroves,
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd interview them both,
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: interview both the trainers, give them equal coverage and that's it.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: And leave the politics out of it and just do the job.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's for me.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% agree.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just had to bounce that with you because it's like there's a certain level
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: of emotion from seeing someone where you don't even know if they're like,
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you another example.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Amari Jones.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: I remember him just being a kid at the gym.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's middleweight, number one contender.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I view him basically like family.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I always supported him not knowing that he'd be a pro boxer.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to see him do well.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's always like, wait.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Look at Amari, he's on TV.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I forgot.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's number one, really good.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: He came through the thing.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I have the same kind of relationship with both of them.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like someone you just knew and you just cared about
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: and you never even really thought about the pro career aspect of it,
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: but it'll all work itself out.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like Lukie though,
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: like when these people are in the ring and fighting,
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously I got close to Ricky and I was there watching Ricky's last fight
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: against Sinchenko, Ricky Hatton's last fight against Sinchenko.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was there working on the book at the time, Ricky's autobiography.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've always had a switch when it comes to boxing.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as the bell goes, I don't see these guys as friends.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're fighters boxing.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: The same way when I was boxing,
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'd expect my friends to see me is they're not necessarily going to be cheering
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: for me to win as such.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be telling me how to win and they're going
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: to be cheering instructions because you're in the event.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, imagine if this wasn't boxing.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine if it was soccer or baseball.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really about Who wins as such?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's about how you perform and you want the best for your friends and you want them
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: to perform well.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the byproduct is obviously winning.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: But for me,
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: there's a switch that goes off where if it's two guys I know who are fighting,
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: it literally just comes down to so-and-so's in the blue corner,
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: so-and-so's in the red corner,
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: and this is the fight and this is how you remove yourself from any...
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's never been any emotion in the ring for me.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just respect both guys and they're going to work, so I've got to go to work.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Better British call.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: The Sheriff of Nottingham has returned or Ricky Burns stole his heart?
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sheriff of Nottingham, I guess.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had to say that.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's the best way to end.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Although I still love that he who is that Ricky Burns against Jose Gonzalez
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: where he stole his heart.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ricky is an underrated dude, man.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Some of his wins, that Roman Martinez victory out of nowhere, like there was some big wins.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: When he bashed up Kevin Mitchell,
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was there like that was meant to be a 50-50 and he blitzed Kevin.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was, Ricky is an under the radar guy.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was, I mean, for years Crawford said he was tough, right?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's a great fighter.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that because he came up short to some good fighters and
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: because people threw out that Broner and him didn't fight, he always got backlash.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: But didn't he beat Zepeda too?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: Zepeda got injured in the fight.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: He had a lot of credible wins.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: And was it the draw with Beltran where it didn't reflect well on him as well?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it feels like he's a public perception guy where they never looked at the body of work.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: They just kind of were like, we decide to look at one moment and kind of crap on you.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but no, great career.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good guy, Ricky.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on the way out, can you promote what you got going?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think everyone should support Tris Dixon.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: As you already see behind him, he's a Hall of Famer.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's really, really smart.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: He does some of the best, if not the best work in boxing.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he's super supportive of me, too.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I call him a friend.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a friend of mine or you enjoy what I do,
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: you really should support Tris because Tris has really helped me a ton.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Lukie.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got Total Boxing up and running.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a YouTube channel, Total Boxing with Trish Dixon, but you can find it at Total Boxing.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: And same thing over here on Substack with Total Boxing.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also doing a show called Built Different on YouTube where I'm going around
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: and training with fighters as well, which has been a kind of wild experience.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: We've done six episodes.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: The most recent one out is with Dalton Smith, being in training with Dalton.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next one out is with Denzel Bentley, the WBO middleweight champ.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been an experience going around training with some of these guys.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's Built Different, but the other stuff is total boxing.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, appreciate that, Lukie.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime you need anything, you know, you can reach out to me.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's always, I've appreciated our friendship through the years, Lukie.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: You've been a very, very solid dude.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm grateful.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I also want and thank you for the kind words,
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: but I also want to say like Tris is the most in shape media person ever.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be very built different if Lukie was trained with Dalton Smith.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: That would be the the built different dad bod version.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like there's if these guys aren't in camp and working hard,
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: you might outwork some of these guys.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're coming to the thing, they got to be on their A game, I feel.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm holding my own, you know.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've disgraced myself yet.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm holding my own.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: I need to pick these guys out of camp, though.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get them out of shape.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: some of these pros these days,
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: and I love to see it, are staying in shape year-round.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're waiting for the phone to ring.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's good.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a good sign.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good sign that the culture of boxing is changing a little bit.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: And these guys aren't blowing up between weight, between fights.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because Dalton Smith was a few weeks out from his fight and he was in good nick.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Denzel Bentley hadn't signed with Zufa a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he's already in good shape.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's good.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: I could do with these guys being about 30 pounds out of weight.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way we've done it.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all been good.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: The skier guy owned.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I could hold my own on the skier,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: but the problem is when you start doing all the other stuff, I don't like it.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all good though, Lukie.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just trying to fight off father time.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: No one beats that.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's tough.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Tris, and I appreciate everything you've done for me.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Lukie.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Speak soon, mate.