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#334 Rock Solid Study with Katie Jones · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: once answers.
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  Speaker 3: Now, stress isn't about having too much to do, because
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  Speaker 3: I think a lot of students sometimes go into overwhelm mode.
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  Speaker 3: But it's not knowing how you're going to get it
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  Speaker 3: all done.
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  Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 2: and dad.
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  Speaker 4: Good.
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  Speaker 1: This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of a bunch
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of books about how to help your family to be happier.
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  Speaker 1: I'm here with Kylie, my wife and mum to our
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  Speaker 1: six daughters. Kylie, we've put two kids through year twelve,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: how would you rate the stress levels that our kids experienced?
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  Speaker 2: It was pretty intense?
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  Speaker 1: Do you reckon? I was going to say exactly the opposite.
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  Speaker 1: I think we nailed it.
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  Speaker 2: Oh you think we nailed it? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: What about them?
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  Speaker 2: How did they do?
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  Speaker 1: That's not relevant? Who cares how they did? They're no Seriously,
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  Speaker 1: do you think it was stressful?
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  Speaker 3: Oh?
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  Speaker 2: We had a couple of major meltdowns from each of them.
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  Speaker 1: Really, I don't remember.
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  Speaker 2: We don't remember.
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  Speaker 1: I really don't remember. Well, I thought it was pretty
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  Speaker 1: smooth sailing.
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  Speaker 2: Our first child just gave up.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's not a meltdown. She just gave up.
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  Speaker 2: Well she after she had a meltdown.
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember the meltdown. I just remember they're giving up.
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  Speaker 1: But our second one, so we learned a lot from
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  Speaker 1: the first time. This is why we have six kids,
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  Speaker 1: because by the time we get to number six, we
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  Speaker 1: are just going to get this so right. But our
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  Speaker 1: second one, we pretty much said, hey, no pressure, no stress,
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  Speaker 1: take a gap year if you want, you can go
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  Speaker 1: to UNI whenever you like. Just enjoy you twelve, And
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  Speaker 1: she really did. I don't remember there being any majorly
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  Speaker 1: stressful moments.
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  Speaker 2: You weren't privy to the mummy daughter chats nearly.
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  Speaker 1: Come on, you're making the parenting, but sound like he's
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  Speaker 1: out of touch with his children.
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  Speaker 2: Look, the reality is we did. We took the pressure
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  Speaker 2: off completely. I don't believe that even with number one
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  Speaker 2: there was pressure there on our path, But there is
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  Speaker 2: an immense amount of pressure on our.
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  Speaker 1: Kids, and sometimes they put it on themselves sometimes in
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  Speaker 1: the school. Yeah. Well, to help us out today, Katie Jones,
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  Speaker 1: who runs Rock Solid Study, is joining us. Katie is
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  Speaker 1: a secondary teacher, a year twelve exam marker, and Katie
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: actually works with the exam board on writing year twelve
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  Speaker 1: exams and the marketing guides that teachers use to mark
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  Speaker 1: those year twelve exams, the high pressure, high stakes end
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  Speaker 1: of year twelve sort of stuff we're talking.
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  Speaker 2: I get the impression this woman loves exams.
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  Speaker 1: Here, let's find out, Katie. Thanks for joining us, Hi,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me. It's good to be here, Katie.
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  Speaker 1: Study stress whether parents are trying to put on their
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  Speaker 1: kids or not. And the truth is some parents really
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  Speaker 1: are and some aren't. So much. Study stress is definitely
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  Speaker 1: an issue for a lot of kids who are in
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  Speaker 1: year twelve. As a high school teacher, as a study coach,
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  Speaker 1: as somebody who's involved in exams at every level. What
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  Speaker 1: do you think causes all of this stress? Where's the
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  Speaker 1: stress really coming from?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a good question. I think you're absolutely right.
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  Speaker 3: I think students can feel it from a lot of places.
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  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, a lot of the times
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  Speaker 3: they're putting it on themselves, partly because they just, you know,
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  Speaker 3: they just have that desire to do well and to
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  Speaker 3: do their best and show, you know, what they're really
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  Speaker 3: made of and how capable they are sometimes to prove
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  Speaker 3: it to themselves and one of the It's actually not
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  Speaker 3: a quote that I came up with, but I heard
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  Speaker 3: it once and I thought it was fantastic. And they
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  Speaker 3: said that stress isn't about having too much to do,
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  Speaker 3: because I think a lot of students sometimes go into
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  Speaker 3: overwhelm mode. But they said, it's not knowing how you're
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  Speaker 3: going to get it all done. And that's why a
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  Speaker 3: lot of what I do is all around that how part, like, Okay,
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  Speaker 3: how do we break down this task, or how do
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  Speaker 3: we tackle an exam question, or how do we really
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  Speaker 3: you know, go about focusing on writing an essay or
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  Speaker 3: structuring it or whatever it is. And I think a
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  Speaker 3: lot of students are lacking that how part. So we
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  Speaker 3: could have one hundred things to do, but if we've
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  Speaker 3: got a good plan and we know how we're going
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  Speaker 3: to do them, it feels a lot more manageable. I
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  Speaker 3: think the overwhelm when the stress comes in when we
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  Speaker 3: feel a little bit out of control, and that could be,
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  Speaker 3: you know, through fear of exams, like I don't know
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  Speaker 3: what they're going to ask me, I don't know how
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  Speaker 3: to answer it. I don't know if I'm necessarily going
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  Speaker 3: to be answering it right because in my experience, a
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  Speaker 3: lot of it comes down to the fact that students
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  Speaker 3: actually struggle to put across their knowledge in the way
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  Speaker 3: that's that you meet in the criteria or getting their marks.
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  Speaker 3: They probably do know that stuff, it's just around that
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  Speaker 3: exam technique. And really, obviously when they don't get the
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  Speaker 3: marks that they may be expecting or thought they might,
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  Speaker 3: then they get that confusion, disappointment, and uncertainty. And I
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  Speaker 3: think those things together is what causes that stress.
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  Speaker 1: Okatie. That reminds me of a couple of psychological theories
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  Speaker 1: that I think are really relevant here when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to motivation and well being. We know that a basic,
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  Speaker 1: a fundamental psychological need that we have is to feel competent.
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  Speaker 1: And what I'm hearing you say is when a student
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  Speaker 1: feels incompetent, when they don't have the hell, when they
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  Speaker 1: just think this is beyond my capacity, motivation drops and
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  Speaker 1: well being drops, and then the stress comes in. Whereas
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  Speaker 1: if they feel like they're competent, if they feel like
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  Speaker 1: they're capable, if they feel like they know how, it
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  Speaker 1: seems to me that their stress levels will be a
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  Speaker 1: whole lot.
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  Speaker 3: Lower one hundred percent. And I think you're absoually that
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  Speaker 3: tie between stress or motivation and sometimes procrastination. I I
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  Speaker 3: think it comes down to three key things, and that
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  Speaker 3: is do they know or do you know? For any
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  Speaker 3: of us, do we know what it is we really
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  Speaker 3: need to be doing so? Do we know what that
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  Speaker 3: question or that tasksheet requires from us the helper? Do
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  Speaker 3: we know that even if we know what it is,
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  Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, I know what I've got to do?
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  Speaker 3: Do I know how to do it? And then the
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  Speaker 3: third one though, is around is this going to pay
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  Speaker 3: off for me? You know, I'm not going necessarily going
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  Speaker 3: to be motivated to do something even if I know
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  Speaker 3: exactly what it is. If I don't feel like there's
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  Speaker 3: going to be any payoff, maybe I've put in the
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  Speaker 3: effort before and I've come up with a disappointing result,
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  Speaker 3: or you know, it hasn't gotten me to where I
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  Speaker 3: wanted it to get me. You know, it's very hard
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  Speaker 3: to get motivated for something or just so like we
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  Speaker 3: want to do something if we don't see that it's
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  Speaker 3: going to potentially give us that result, especially if we
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  Speaker 3: put in hard work before.
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  Speaker 2: You've worked with thousands of parents through your teaching and
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  Speaker 2: study coaching Kadie, what are parents coming to you most
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  Speaker 2: concerned about.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's a couple of key areas, but for sure,
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  Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is around that having
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  Speaker 3: that life balance. You know, they want their children to
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  Speaker 3: experience success and to achieve their goals, you know, wherever
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  Speaker 3: they have been, wherever they've come from, but they want
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  Speaker 3: to be able to do it, you know, and I
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  Speaker 3: always phrase it as and enjoy the journey along the way.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's fantastic for them to be able to,
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  Speaker 3: you know, enjoy their education. They're not necessarily going to
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  Speaker 3: enjoy their examblocks, but if the process as a whole
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  Speaker 3: can be as positive as possible and they have that
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  Speaker 3: sense of accomplishment or enjoyment of their schooling, I think
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  Speaker 3: that goes a huge way. And they want them to
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  Speaker 3: have that life balance in terms of having time for
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  Speaker 3: other things, you know, time for friendships, time for sports
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  Speaker 3: or hobbies and other things that are important to them,
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  Speaker 3: family time, just time to sometimes do nothing and relax
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  Speaker 3: and recharge. So life balance is a huge one and
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  Speaker 3: really I think you know, that's where that stress comes
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  Speaker 3: in as well, because we feel overwhelmed when we've got
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  Speaker 3: too much to do. The other one is around having
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  Speaker 3: future choices and opportunities. But you know, we as the
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  Speaker 3: adults these days, know that there's many pathways to get
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  Speaker 3: in to things these days. The third one, which is
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  Speaker 3: a huge one, is probably around confidence. That's the word
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  Speaker 3: I hear from parents so often is you know, if
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  Speaker 3: they are putting in that effort, because so often I
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  Speaker 3: work with students and parents who where their kids have
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  Speaker 3: put in that effort but it hasn't paid off. And
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  Speaker 3: usually that is around you know that help part the exam,
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  Speaker 3: take meet part, meeting the criteria, all the rest of it.
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  Speaker 3: And each time, you know they put in that effort,
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  Speaker 3: maybe you haven't got the result they were hoping for.
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  Speaker 3: Whatever that is for them, then for sure, you know
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  Speaker 3: it can contribute to building some resilience, you know, get
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  Speaker 3: back up and try again. But you know, if that
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  Speaker 3: continues to happen, they do see that confidence being dented,
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  Speaker 3: and I think they really want to sort of try
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  Speaker 3: and do something and take action before that goes too far.
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  Speaker 1: Just to sick. We're going to ask some questions about
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  Speaker 1: the best tips to help kids to get through exams,
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  Speaker 1: not just to perform well, but to minimize stress around
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  Speaker 1: that we're talking with Katie Jones from Rock Solid Study.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcasts.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: Are screens creating tension at home, tweens, teens and Screens
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: Bye Today at happyfamilies dot com dot au slash shop.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, And today we're
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: talking with Katie Jones from Rock Solid Study.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: The conversation is about helping kids to do well as
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  Speaker 1: they approach their end of year exams, particularly for year
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  Speaker 1: twelve students. And it's only just around the corner now,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: right we're at the end of August. It's all about
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  Speaker 1: to happen. The pressure is starting to mount. Just before
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: we go back to Katie, Kylie, I'm reflecting on the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: things that we're hearing and a couple of things spring
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  Speaker 1: to mind. First off, we've really learned to take the
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  Speaker 1: pressure off our kids and let them decide for themselves.
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  Speaker 1: So child number two, we said to her, what do
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: you want to do for year twelve? She said, I
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  Speaker 1: want to have a nice time and I want to
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  Speaker 1: do well enough to get into UNI but I don't
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: really know what I want to study yet, and I'm
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: not in a hurry. And so she scored in the
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  Speaker 1: eighties with not a single question from us at any point,
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  Speaker 1: like how you're going with your study. We really left
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  Speaker 1: it to her right totally, and she did really, really well.
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  Speaker 2: Not only were we surprised, but so was she because
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  Speaker 2: she'd done one of those prediction testy things that told
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  Speaker 2: her that she wasn't going to score very well at all. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and so she kind of just given up.
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  Speaker 1: Right. So, our third daughter, she's in grade eleven at
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  Speaker 1: the moment, about to head into year twelve. She's decided
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  Speaker 1: that she'd like to be an architect. An architect, but
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  Speaker 1: we're not putting any pressure on her at all, and
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  Speaker 1: we don't really care. She'll get there eventually. And as
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  Speaker 1: Katie said in the first part of our conversation, and Katie,
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  Speaker 1: I might bring you back in here, there's a million
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  Speaker 1: pathways to get into literally anything that you want. Now.
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  Speaker 1: The idea that so many parents and kids still get
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  Speaker 1: caught up on that their value as a human or
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  Speaker 1: their value as a learner is tied up in that
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: number that they get in the end of year twelve.
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  Speaker 1: It's such a pernicious and dangerous idea, and yet it
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  Speaker 1: persists in spite of the knowledge that there is a
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  Speaker 1: million dear from pathways into any course. And who cares
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: if you don't get to start medicine until age twenty four?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Right like I started psychology at twenty eight. I didn't
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  Speaker 1: graduate with my doctorate until thirty six, thirty five something
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  Speaker 1: like that. I can't remember what it was in thirties.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter. Like why the hurry and why
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  Speaker 1: the obsession over the number?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that you know
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  Speaker 3: so much of you know, the culture and the background
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  Speaker 3: in education is very you know, numbers and grades based.
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  Speaker 3: You know, students are given certain targets, and you know,
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  Speaker 3: essentially there is this big comparison. I have to say,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: you know, the whole ranking system of students, I personally
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  Speaker 3: don't think helps without a huge.
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  Speaker 1: Amoust toxic it's terrible.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so right, so I think you know that's I
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  Speaker 3: remember coming over and you know, look, I'd say there's
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: probably even more numbers and letters going on over in
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  Speaker 3: the UK system. I actually started my teaching career over
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: in the UK, and I came here but we don't
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  Speaker 3: rank students over there. And I was really puzzled the
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: one time I was teaching and the students will ask
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  Speaker 3: me so when I come, when they come, and I
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: was doing the whole doesn't matter where you come, it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: just you know about you know how you feel about
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: where you're at, and you know where we can go
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  Speaker 3: from there, like what's gone well, where you could improve?
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  Speaker 3: And then I realized, like, oh no, there's like there's
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  Speaker 3: all these numbers. So I think it's I think it
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  Speaker 3: is a part of the system. But Ye're absolutely right.
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  Speaker 3: There are so many ways, and those pathways are growing
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  Speaker 3: all of the time. You know, we it's likely that
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  Speaker 3: we're going to change careers. I certainly didn't start out
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: as a teacher, and so really, yeah, being aware of
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: all of that and finding you know, potentially what it's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: going to be, it's not it's not important to necessarily
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: know exactly what we need to be and what we
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: need to do to get there. There will be a
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: way to get there, for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So in the last couple of minutes that we've got,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: let's unpack a couple of those more efficient, more effective
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: high impact study methods. If I've got a child who
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: is doing year twelve or doing any exams now that
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: we're getting towards the end of the year, what what
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  Speaker 1: are the best things that I can do to support
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: them in their studies.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, great question, because I think a lot of parents,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: especially when their children are into those EIGHTI years, feel
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: a little bit stuck. Sometimes we're trying to help them
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: because they feel like they need to know the subject
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  Speaker 3: content to be able to help them. And obviously when
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: it's those year twelve subjects, you know that's not as easy.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And you know, I was in deferences like you don't
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: need to have the you know, the latest novel by
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: your bedside, you don't need to have read the textbook
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: for whatever topic it is. It really is around those skills.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: So for sure, you know, giving them some of the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: practical support of course that love and reassurance that you
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: know it is not all about the numbers, but also
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: being there to sort of help them where they may
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: need that extra support. So two very technical, like very
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: tangible things that I would say to parents is helping them.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: A lot of people talk about time management, and I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: think a lot of students, especially if they're trying to
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: achieve that life finance of doing other things in their life.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Rather than I don't love the term time management. I
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: like to give them outcomes, so scheduled outcomes, like we're
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: going to sit down and do this task, what do
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  Speaker 3: we want to get out of it in X amount
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: of time? To help them not sort of to go
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: down those rabbit holes of research, like spending hours and
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: hours finding more and more and more research. For example,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: for a research project, your an inquiry, like what do
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: we really need to know? What's going to meet those criteria?
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Of course unless it's something they love, and that's fine,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: but it's going to be like trying to find that
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: balance there. And likewise, when they're trying to help them
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  Speaker 3: maybe tackle a task, I always say to look for
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: the command word. So if they can just help them,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: look for that verb in the question are they needing
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: to describe, are they needing to explain or is it analyzed?
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Whatever it might be, just to point them in the
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: right direction and stop them sort of potentially going off
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: on tangents, or just to give them a bit of
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: a prompt in the right direction without necessarily needing to
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: know any specific subject knowledge. Those are two things that
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: I know help a lot of parents and students a lot.
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  Speaker 1: And let's say I've got a child who's completely unmotivated,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to do it, and I'm thinking of me
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  Speaker 1: when I was in year twelve. In fact, when I
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: was in high school, full stop, end of story, I
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: just hated it, and no matter how much my parents begged, bribed, cajoled, coerced,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: they could not get me to do any study at all.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: If I'm a parent of a child like that, what
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: do you say for mums and dads who really want
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to see their child, They're not even worried about fulfilling
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: their potential, they just wanted to get out of bed
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  Speaker 1: and have a go. What do they do in that situation?
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, I think I think deep down, you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: all of us teenagers, adults, children, I think we do.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I think we do want to, you know, be successful
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: in something. I think we do want that sense of achievement.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: I think it's just about finding where that lies and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: how to then engage them with that. So, whether it's
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: relating something to something that they are interested in, that's
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: a huge part of it. I think it is about
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: sort of thinking about what the bigger picture of things. So, no,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: we may not want to get this mouth homework done
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: right now, but you know where is that potentially going together?
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: So what do we need to have just you know,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: ticked off the list, or what's the stepping stone that
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: that could lead to in the bigger picture.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: This has been such a great conversation, Katie. We've got
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: another child going through year twelve next year. She's jeering
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: up for it, and I can already see that helping
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: her to focus on outcomes is going to be a
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: really important skill that we will need to hone in on.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: That's Katie Jones from Rock Solid Study. I feel, Katie.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: When I say rock Solid Study, I feel like I
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: need to sound like one of those guys on Triple M.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Can I just say that again? I can I do
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: it with the Triple M voice? I used to be
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a radio. That's Katie Jones from Rock Solid Study. Did
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that sound like Triple M? Kylie? Did it? Did it work?
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Rock Solid Study? No? You don't want that on your
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: ads on the internet detation.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: That sounds way too rock for me, I.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Feel, Katie Jones from Rock Solid Study. Katie is a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: secondary teacher. You twelve exam marker works with the Exam
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Board on writing AR twelve exams and marketing guides, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: has a website just Googler Katie Jones rock Solid Study.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks Katie lovely, thank you so much.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: It's been great.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I might have overdone that just a little bit.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Do you think, oh, you had some fun.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what I used to do when I didn't
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: care about school and I wanted to be a radio Because, like,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: if you've listened to the radio, you listen to radio
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: anounces on those FM stations, it doesn't sound like they
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: did very well at high school like you did. I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: just I didn't say that to anyone who works in
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: their FM radio. I apologize. Don't look at me like that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to stop right now. The Happy Family's podcast
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: is produced by Justin and roll On from Bridge Media.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. And if you'd like
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: more information about Katie Jones, chicken google her a rock
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: solid Study. If you'd like more information about making your
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: family happier, that is the very best content that we
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: can produce. Check out our Happy Families memberships. They're available
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: from just twelve dollars a month. All the information that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you need is at happy Families dot com dot A
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Eight