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Goodreads reviews, social media and day jobs: the reality of being a (newly) published author · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Madeleine Cleary: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Madeleine Cleary: No matter what sage of writing you are at, we've got you covered.
• 0:19
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:20
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
• 0:29
  Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on.
• 0:35
  Madeleine Cleary: And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:43
  Tina Strachan: Welcome everybody to the Book Deal podcast.
• 0:45
  Tina Strachan: We have a really exciting episode for you today because it's not just me.
• 0:49
  Tina Strachan: My name's Tina Strachan, not just me today, but I'm also joined by Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:53
  Tina Strachan: Hello everybody.
• 0:55
  Tina Strachan: And Natasha Rai.
• 0:57
  Tina Strachan: Hello.
• 0:58
  Tina Strachan: It's so good to be here.
• 0:59
  Tina Strachan: Oh, all three of us today.
• 1:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, this is the first time we, all three of us have actually been, um, on the same pod together, isn't it?
• 1:07
  Tina Strachan: Yes, it is.
• 1:08
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:09
  Tina Strachan: I'd like to say the same room together, but like can't.
• 1:11
  Tina Strachan: We're actually in three different states, so.
• 1:13
  Madeleine Cleary: We've all met each other separately, haven't we?
• 1:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, we just, yeah, we have.
• 1:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, we had it together.
• 1:19
  Madeleine Cleary: Together, which is so sad.
• 1:21
  Madeleine Cleary: We're gonna have to do that.
• 1:22
  Madeleine Cleary: We can, that could be a tax deductible thing.
• 1:24
  Madeleine Cleary: I think a trip, the three of us.
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: End of
• 1:26
  Madeleine Cleary: your
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: Christmas party.
• 1:27
  Tina Strachan: End of your work Christmas party.
• 1:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:32
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that'd be so fun.
• 1:34
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well, so in the, um, it's also really exciting too.
• 1:38
  Tina Strachan: Another first is that this is the first time that we've all come together as published authors.
• 1:43
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 1:44
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 1:44
  Tina Strachan: So I think the last time, last time I, I spoke to you, Madeleine,
• 1:49
  Madeleine Cleary: you were yet to release.
• 1:50
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 1:51
  Madeleine Cleary: So it was only a few days out, I think, wasn't it?
• 1:53
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'd seen it at Sorento, but not officially on a bookshelf, which is the important part I think it's seeing in a bookstore.
• 2:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you guys find, I'm curious, I know we've got, we've got so many fun things to talk about this episode, but just quickly, every time you see your book in a bookshop, you get the same thrill and rush.
• 2:12
  Yeah.
• 2:13
  Definitely.
• 2:14
  Do you think it'll ever go away?
• 2:18
  I don't think so.
• 2:19
  I don't think so.
• 2:21
  Madeleine Cleary (2): How can it don't, it's just like, oh my God, there.
• 2:24
  Madeleine Cleary (2): It's, that's right.
• 2:24
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Yes.
• 2:24
  Madeleine Cleary (2): That's, that's the tone, isn't it?
• 2:26
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Oh my God, there, it's, it's every single time.
• 2:29
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 2:29
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Yeah.
• 2:29
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 2:30
  Tina Strachan: And a little bit of unbelievable still, like, it still feels to me like a little bit like, oh, it's not gonna be there.
• 2:35
  Tina Strachan: It's not gonna be on the shelf.
• 2:36
  Tina Strachan: And there it is.
• 2:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 2:37
  Madeleine Cleary: And you always, you always go in with low expectations, don't you?
• 2:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Totally.
• 2:41
  Madeleine Cleary: It's not gonna be you.
• 2:42
  Madeleine Cleary: There might be one copy and look, there might not even be one copy and that's fine.
• 2:46
  Madeleine Cleary: And you just tell yourself, you protect yourself in your head.
• 2:50
  Natasha Rai: Um, that happened to me, so on.
• 2:51
  Natasha Rai: So I'm just gonna ask on that.
• 2:53
  Natasha Rai: Do either of you do the creepy thing where you just kind of hang around and see if anyone's gonna buy it?
• 2:58
  Natasha Rai: And then just stare at people.
• 2:59
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 2:59
  Natasha Rai: Does anyone else do that or is that just I have done that.
• 3:01
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 3:02
  Natasha Rai: I sort of just
• 3:02
  Tina Strachan: stand in the aisle and be like, oh, look, here's Yep.
• 3:05
  Tina Strachan: Let's see if they're gonna run their eyes over it.
• 3:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 3:08
  Madeleine Cleary: So question.
• 3:09
  Madeleine Cleary: If you saw someone picking up your book in a bookshop and looking at the back cover, would you approach them?
• 3:15
  Oh,
• 3:16
  Tina Strachan: I would go up to'em and say.
• 3:17
  Tina Strachan: Hi, my name's Madeleine Cleary and my friend Tina wrote this book.
• 3:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I Ask because because you've done that before for me.
• 3:26
  Madeleine Cleary: So I have, and I did it for myself as well.
• 3:28
  Madeleine Cleary: It did happen to you did.
• 3:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Interesting.
• 3:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 3:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Did happen.
• 3:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Tell Telltale.
• 3:32
  Madeleine Cleary: So just Yeah, quickly.
• 3:34
  Madeleine Cleary: So I was at my local Dimmick, um, and I, I was just like walking past and then a guy was looking at it'cause it was on like the top 10, which is so exciting.
• 3:45
  Madeleine Cleary: He was looking at it and it was like the day before Mother's Day.
• 3:48
  Madeleine Cleary: And so Pat was with me, my husband, and he's like, don't do it.
• 3:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Edlin, don't do it.
• 3:52
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it.
• 3:55
  Madeleine Cleary: So I went up to him, I'm like, oh hi.
• 3:56
  Madeleine Cleary: That's actually a really good book.
• 3:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Like I can really recommend it.
• 3:59
  Madeleine Cleary: And he's like, oh, really?
• 4:00
  Madeleine Cleary: He's like, yeah, I'm looking for a present for my wife.
• 4:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, oh, she would love it.
• 4:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Like it's historical.
• 4:05
  Madeleine Cleary: It's gonna murder mystery.
• 4:06
  Madeleine Cleary: It's a romance.
• 4:07
  Madeleine Cleary: He's like, oh, that sounds really cool.
• 4:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Um.
• 4:10
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, and for full disclosure, I'm also the author.
• 4:12
  Madeleine Cleary: So, um, I thought I'm a bit biased, but I promise that she'll enjoy it.
• 4:17
  Madeleine Cleary: And he is like, oh, well I'm gonna have to buy this then, and would you sign it?
• 4:19
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, yeah, absolutely.
• 4:20
  Madeleine Cleary: So did you sign it and say, your husband is awesome, Natasha, like, mouth is just open.
• 4:26
  Natasha Rai: I, I'm like, you are so cool.
• 4:32
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Me
• 4:32
  Madeleine Cleary: though, like,
• 4:32
  Madeleine Cleary (2): I,
• 4:32
  Madeleine Cleary: you know, I.
• 4:36
  Natasha Rai: I just adopted that persona.
• 4:37
  Natasha Rai: I know, but it's just that cool casual way that you're like, oh yeah.
• 4:40
  Natasha Rai: This is amazing book.
• 4:41
  Natasha Rai: By the way, I'm the author.
• 4:42
  Natasha Rai: I would be like, like a weird creep, like behind someone like looking over their shoulder going,
• 4:48
  BA it, ba it
• 4:52
  Madeleine Cleary (2): your, your voice just went then.
• 4:53
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Yeah.
• 4:54
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Your voice just went.
• 4:54
  Madeleine Cleary (2): It is'cause I whispered.
• 4:56
  Tina Strachan: I was just whispering.
• 4:57
  Tina Strachan: You're whispering on, oh, my mark's all the way over here.
• 5:00
  Tina Strachan: Actually, no.
• 5:01
  Tina Strachan: You're gonna have to let know.
• 5:02
  Tina Strachan: Maybe no one's.
• 5:03
  Tina Strachan: Even heard anything that I've said this whole time.
• 5:06
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Our podcast is just.
• 5:10
  Tina Strachan: Let me know if not, and I'll try and like overdub my everything.
• 5:13
  Tina Strachan: Um, no, I'll just whispering like Tash standing behind the, the shelves going
• 5:17
  Susan Joy-Lu: and I'm slow to fly.
• 5:19
  Susan Joy-Lu: I flight, buy it
• 5:22
  Tina Strachan: and he's like,
• 5:23
  Natasha Rai: this a weird reason to buy this.
• 5:25
  Natasha Rai: An onslaught of light.
• 5:26
  Natasha Rai: I would actually be running out of the shop if I heard someone whispering, creepily into my ear a name of a book, but
• 5:33
  Madeleine Cleary (2): maybe, maybe not of the tactic.
• 5:35
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Well, my husband did run out of the shop, by the way.
• 5:37
  Madeleine Cleary (2): When I approached that person, he's like, he just just gone.
• 5:41
  Madeleine Cleary (2): He's like, he was like cringing.
• 5:42
  Madeleine Cleary (2): He's like, I can't, I can't be around.
• 5:44
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Yeah.
• 5:44
  Madeleine Cleary (2): I can
• 5:44
  Tina Strachan: support you so much, Madeleine, but this, this is the line.
• 5:47
  Tina Strachan: Well, uh, okay, well let's go and thank you Madeleine, for fitting us into a very busy schedule.
• 5:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, you have
• 5:53
  Tina Strachan: had
• 5:53
  Madeleine Cleary: had a lot on, I'm, I'm on, I'm having a break now.
• 5:56
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, I've got one more event.
• 5:57
  Madeleine Cleary: That's it.
• 5:58
  Madeleine Cleary: And then I'm just, I'm gonna chill for a few weeks.
• 6:00
  Madeleine Cleary: So that's good.
• 6:01
  Madeleine Cleary: But I, it's been, it's been amazing.
• 6:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Very luck.
• 6:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Lucky and privileged to have all the events that I've been doing.
• 6:06
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's been a lot of fun.
• 6:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I think once you've done a few.
• 6:11
  Madeleine Cleary: You, you have to try and avoid, you know, saying the same things as well.
• 6:14
  Madeleine Cleary: You wanna try.
• 6:14
  Madeleine Cleary: And, and I'm very, I'm very cognizant of it because I can see my husband, he's been in every single event and when he goes on his phone, I know that I'm just repeating myself.
• 6:24
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'm like, okay, trying to spice this up a bit.
• 6:27
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 6:27
  Natasha Rai: But you know, on, on that point, I was talking to somebody last night and a writer, and they were saying that.
• 6:32
  Natasha Rai: Yes, but also it's unlikely that people, apart from like, you know, our spouses and family are gonna be coming to multiple events.
• 6:40
  Natasha Rai: So you could say some similar stories and if they're a super fan, they're gonna love hearing it over and over anyway.
• 6:45
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 6:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Like you've attended some of Emily McGuires, haven't she, Nash Natasha now over a few times.
• 6:51
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 6:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And every time you learn something.
• 6:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Right,
• 6:54
  Natasha Rai: exactly.
• 6:55
  Natasha Rai: And I never get bored because what I love about the way she talks about her book, and I'm sure you're the same Madeleine and you as well, Tina, is the excitement.
• 7:03
  Natasha Rai: Like every time she talks about the inspiration behind the book or what she was thinking about in terms of craft, there's just so much excitement that that kind of infiltrates the the people there.
• 7:12
  Natasha Rai: And then I get excited about my own work and it kind of just has a beautiful kind of knock on effect.
• 7:18
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 7:20
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 7:20
  Tina Strachan: I mean, the same questions that you get asked as well, so it is a little bit hard to shake it up all the time.
• 7:24
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, like Asha said, I don't think people, it's not boring for the people that are listening.
• 7:29
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 7:29
  Tina Strachan: Um, I've heard comedians do the same thing, like the same sketch on a show, on a live, on a radio.
• 7:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Tina Strachan: So, you know, if it's good material, it's using it, keep pulling it out.
• 7:40
  Tina Strachan: Alright.
• 7:41
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 7:42
  Tina Strachan: Moving on.
• 7:42
  Tina Strachan: We had this really fun idea and it really would've, you know, the logistics of it got a bit confusing when we, when we realized that we're not all in person.
• 7:49
  Tina Strachan: But, so our idea for today's show was we had, um, we just really wanted to have a catch up about what it's like now that, now that we're all published.
• 7:58
  Tina Strachan: Um, but then we thought really fun way to do it was, um, each of us have come up with three questions.
• 8:03
  Tina Strachan: To ask and we've just thrown them into a hat randomly.
• 8:06
  Tina Strachan: And then of course the logistics of it got a bit confusing, but that's okay.
• 8:08
  Tina Strachan: I wrote to my husband to, to help out.
• 8:11
  Tina Strachan: And, um, so we've all got three questions each, and then I have a, i I have a hat with names in it that I wanna pull out and we'll get each gonna ask our random question to one of us here.
• 8:20
  Tina Strachan: So we don't know.
• 8:21
  Tina Strachan: We could get our own question.
• 8:22
  Tina Strachan: I don't know.
• 8:23
  Tina Strachan: Let's see how we go.
• 8:24
  Tina Strachan: Should I start?
• 8:26
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna start.
• 8:27
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 8:31
  Tina Strachan: So I'm gonna pull, so this is my first question.
• 8:33
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna pull my name out of, out of a hat, and I'm
• 8:36
  Madeleine Cleary: just, so this is like the most nervous I've been for an interview so far.
• 8:40
  Madeleine Cleary: It's,
• 8:43
  Tina Strachan: it's my name.
• 8:44
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna, should I put it back in or should I answer it?
• 8:46
  Tina Strachan: No, answer it.
• 8:47
  Tina Strachan: How has publishing a book changed, impacted your day job?
• 8:53
  Susan Joy-Lu: Mm-hmm.
• 8:53
  Susan Joy-Lu: Okay.
• 8:54
  Tina Strachan: Good question.
• 8:55
  Tina Strachan: How was publishing book?
• 8:56
  Tina Strachan: Okay, so I guess.
• 8:57
  Tina Strachan: I have just had to try a little bit harder to compartmentalize because there's a lot going on, right?
• 9:04
  Tina Strachan: Once the book comes out, and that's probably just when it's new a lot of the time.
• 9:08
  Tina Strachan: There's a lot of things going on, and you kind of know that there's all this stuff happening over here to the side, and emails are coming in and social media's doing lots of stuff, and it's so tempting to just have a little look.
• 9:18
  Tina Strachan: See what's happening and respond because you wanna get back to everyone.
• 9:22
  Tina Strachan: Um, so I've really had to compartmentalize and make sure that when I'm at work I'm sort of not looking at that because that's can be quite time consuming.
• 9:31
  Tina Strachan: Um, and yeah, like I have a pretty technical job and I really need my brain to focus.
• 9:36
  Tina Strachan: So, um, yeah, it has been a little bit distracting, but, um, yeah, I've just had to really try and separate the two I.
• 9:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Are you, are you still motivated by your day job?
• 9:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Because I know how much you loved it, pre-publication.
• 9:53
  Madeleine Cleary: This is a follow up question.
• 9:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah,
• 9:54
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 9:55
  Madeleine Cleary: I do.
• 9:56
  Tina Strachan: And I love, I, you know, studied for a really long time and I, um, kind of worked my way up to where I am now and I love everybody that's there.
• 10:04
  Tina Strachan: I work with some really smart people and, um, yeah, really passionate people and I feel I just love being around them and feeling smarter just for being around them.
• 10:13
  Tina Strachan: So, so yes, it's definitely, it's definitely still there, but sometimes feels like two different worlds.
• 10:18
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 10:19
  Tina Strachan: What about you guys?
• 10:20
  Tina Strachan: Do you, do you just feel like you're living too, like a double life almost?
• 10:25
  Natasha Rai: Um, for me a little bit because, um, I don't talk about myself and my work.
• 10:31
  Natasha Rai: 'cause that would be quite weird to do that.
• 10:34
  Natasha Rai: Um, you better say what you are Natasha as well for those who don't know.
• 10:38
  Natasha Rai: Oh, okay.
• 10:38
  Natasha Rai: I'm a, I'm a counselor.
• 10:40
  Natasha Rai: Um, so, so I don't talk about my work and I have no idea if any or my clients even know I've published a book.
• 10:47
  Natasha Rai: Doesn't matter.
• 10:48
  Natasha Rai: Um, I think for me, in terms of the work change is, um, I try not to take too much time off because it can be really disruptive for people because they really need that regular type of, um, you know, consistency from me.
• 11:04
  Natasha Rai: I find it easier now that the book's been out for a couple of months to switch off from social media and checking during the day.
• 11:11
  Natasha Rai: And also because work, the work can get quite intense and quite absorbing like it's.
• 11:16
  Natasha Rai: It can feel like I'm getting yanked out of it in terms of my brain space to, to check.
• 11:21
  Natasha Rai: Um, but so far I'm still loving my job and I don't have any intention so far to, you know, take more time away from that or, yeah, I think it's, I found something that's working right now,
• 11:36
  Madeleine Cleary: and I think also the day job is, is something, it's, it's actually a nice break for me from all the social media and all the constant thinking because.
• 11:45
  Madeleine Cleary: It's so consuming and absorbing when you release a book into the world in those first few early weeks.
• 11:50
  Madeleine Cleary: My job actually feels like a bit of a holiday from from that.
• 11:53
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm not saying that it's, it's not fun and interesting and great, but your thought, your cons, all your thoughts.
• 12:02
  Madeleine Cleary: You know, are focused on this, and that's quite exhausting.
• 12:06
  Madeleine Cleary: So I actually found I've been sleeping better, going back to work, having a bit more of a routine around my time instead of just Googling myself for any new things, which is like.
• 12:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Awful.
• 12:16
  Madeleine Cleary (2): It is awful.
• 12:19
  Tina Strachan: It doesn't take long to, for that to become almost like a habit, does it?
• 12:23
  Tina Strachan: It's terrible.
• 12:23
  Tina Strachan: Like don't you think?
• 12:24
  Tina Strachan: Doesn't healthy, like it just infiltrates?
• 12:25
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 12:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Whereas if you've got a job that's keeping you occupied and that's all.
• 12:29
  Madeleine Cleary: And I guess the key thing here for writers though is you cannot, even once you've published a book, you can't really leave your day job.
• 12:36
  Madeleine Cleary: It's not to have that as well on the side.
• 12:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And I wouldn't leave it up no way.
• 12:43
  Alright, I'm gonna go clockwise.
• 12:45
  Natasha, uh, your first question is for you.
• 12:51
  Oh,
• 12:53
  Natasha Rai: the system's working out so well.
• 12:55
  Natasha Rai: It's
• 12:55
  Madeleine Cleary (2): so great.
• 12:57
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 12:57
  Natasha Rai: But you don't know whose question it is, right?
• 12:59
  Natasha Rai: No, I don't actually.
• 13:00
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 13:00
  Natasha Rai: Um, okay, so the question is, have my views on having an agent or not having an agent change since publication.
• 13:09
  Natasha Rai: So I don't have an agent.
• 13:11
  Natasha Rai: Um, and my views have changed a little bit since publication.
• 13:16
  Natasha Rai: So going in I was like, well, I don't think I need one.
• 13:19
  Natasha Rai: And, um, there's lots of good support through the a SA, the Australian Society of Authors and also, um, individual agents who offer contract uh, negotiations.
• 13:28
  Natasha Rai: So I had that on my contract with Pantera and I thought, yeah, this is great.
• 13:32
  Natasha Rai: I'll just do this again if and when I'm privileged or lucky enough to have another novel published.
• 13:39
  Natasha Rai: But I'm just noticing that there's lots of questions that have come up since publication, like World Rights uh, and film and or television options and just other things that I didn't know before publication about building a career and longevity and how to negotiate some different things that are not just the publishing contract.
• 14:03
  Natasha Rai: So.
• 14:04
  Natasha Rai: I'm in a state of mine now where I am seriously contemplating, um, getting an agent.
• 14:12
  Madeleine Cleary: So agents, if you're listening, Natasha is on the lookout for an agent.
• 14:18
  Madeleine Cleary: She's a future Miles Franklin award winning author.
• 14:21
  Natasha Rai: So I can't stop laughing.
• 14:23
  Natasha Rai: Um, while, while that's lovely, I'm pretty sure my phone isn't gonna like start ringing off the hook tomorrow, but thank you Madeleine.
• 14:30
  Natasha Rai: That was an excellent
• 14:30
  Tina Strachan: plug.
• 14:33
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's interesting.
• 14:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:34
  Tina Strachan: You don't know what you don't know, do you?
• 14:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Tina Strachan: Even though you try to know and Exactly.
• 14:37
  Tina Strachan: You know, there's as a, all those sorts of things.
• 14:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Natasha Rai: Interesting.
• 14:40
  Natasha Rai: What about you, Tina?
• 14:42
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yeah, I'm probably the same.
• 14:44
  Tina Strachan: I'm un agent and I realize now that there's lots of things that they could help with, and even if it's just the back and forth about the contracty money side of things.
• 14:55
  Tina Strachan: And and I And just one more person that's sort of in your corner, close to you that you can check in with.
• 15:01
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 15:01
  Yeah, I think, yeah.
• 15:02
  Yeah.
• 15:04
  Natasha Rai: And made you got, you got your agent after publication.
• 15:06
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, that's right.
• 15:07
  Natasha Rai: Or after you, after you signed your, your deal.
• 15:10
  Madeleine Cleary: I think I realized, yeah, it, having someone in your corner I think is really important.
• 15:14
  Madeleine Cleary: And not to say for any of us that publishers are trying to do one over us at all.
• 15:20
  Madeleine Cleary: And that's not, not at all the case.
• 15:22
  Madeleine Cleary: It's just, um, the, the industry, it's, it's, especially as a debut, it's, it's a difficult one to navigate.
• 15:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Sometimes things are, can be opaque.
• 15:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 15:31
  Madeleine Cleary: And so having someone who you know is 100% backing you is, is a, is a good thing.
• 15:37
  Natasha Rai: Hmm.
• 15:37
  Natasha Rai: And I think it's just smart business and professionally because you know That's right.
• 15:40
  Natasha Rai: If you think about anything else that you'd undertake, like if you wanted to buy a house or.
• 15:45
  Natasha Rai: Do anything that required a legal eye, you wouldn't just count on yourself.
• 15:50
  Natasha Rai: That's right.
• 15:50
  Natasha Rai: Some extra, you know, power.
• 15:52
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 15:52
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 15:52
  Tina Strachan: Brain power.
• 15:53
  Tina Strachan: And also helpful for book two, right.
• 15:55
  Tina Strachan: Coming up for book two in that they can help with like shopping it around and all those sorts of things.
• 16:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:02
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 16:04
  Tina Strachan: Your turn.
• 16:05
  Tina Strachan: So you are asking your question.
• 16:07
  Tina Strachan: One, two,
• 16:09
  Madeleine Cleary: if it's me.
• 16:14
  Madeleine Cleary: I love that it's working our system.
• 16:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 16:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Have you been checking your Good Reads reviews?
• 16:19
  Madeleine Cleary: If yes, how does this make you feel?
• 16:21
  Madeleine Cleary: How do you manage those feelings?
• 16:24
  Madeleine Cleary: And if not, why not?
• 16:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, good reads.
• 16:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Good reads.
• 16:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I have not been checking my Good reads reviews.
• 16:33
  Madeleine Cleary: I was initially, and then I.
• 16:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Spiraled when I saw this three star review that basically said, um, I've appropriated sex workers because I'm not a sex work worker.
• 16:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Although they didn't know that I was not a sex worker.
• 16:48
  Madeleine Cleary: I haven't declared that.
• 16:48
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm not.
• 16:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Wow.
• 16:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 16:51
  Madeleine Cleary: There you go.
• 16:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And this was bef, this was actually a really early review and I hadn't received that much feedback from the novel before I'd been released.
• 16:59
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I was basically thinking, oh my God, everyone's just gonna three star my book.
• 17:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Maybe my book is a three star book and that's all it deserves.
• 17:07
  Madeleine Cleary: And I was like, it, it really messes with your head.
• 17:11
  Madeleine Cleary: And so from that moment on, I've just decided not to check.
• 17:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I think that's been really good.
• 17:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Instead, I have my husband who will read me out.
• 17:21
  Madeleine Cleary: The four and five star comments.
• 17:23
  Madeleine Cleary: And so all I'm getting is just positive affirmation.
• 17:28
  Madeleine Cleary: So, and I think that's a really healthy way to be, is particularly when you're approaching writing for your second book, I think it's really nice to, to have that.
• 17:37
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause you still wanna get, you still want validation as well.
• 17:39
  Madeleine Cleary: You, you, you're searching for validation, aren't you?
• 17:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Natasha Rai: Totally.
• 17:42
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, and so, and I, I think though Good Reads should be a very safe place for readers.
• 17:48
  Madeleine Cleary: It's not a place for writers.
• 17:49
  Madeleine Cleary: That's my opinion anyway.
• 17:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 17:51
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you guys?
• 17:53
  Natasha Rai: I totally agree with that.
• 17:54
  Natasha Rai: Um, I only checked Good Reads once, and I was the same as you.
• 17:59
  Natasha Rai: I saw it was literally just a one line review, and it wasn't even that bad, but it just made me feel really crushed.
• 18:05
  Natasha Rai: So I thought, right, I don't need to check this site because I have so many wonderful people.
• 18:11
  Natasha Rai: Who have messaged me to say, I love this.
• 18:12
  Natasha Rai: I love your book.
• 18:13
  Natasha Rai: I love your characters.
• 18:15
  Natasha Rai: I love this family.
• 18:16
  Natasha Rai: So I haven't checked it since and I haven't got anyone else to check it or to tell me anything.
• 18:21
  Natasha Rai: Good.
• 18:22
  Natasha Rai: I'm just, I've just decided in my world, good reads exist for readers.
• 18:26
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 18:27
  Natasha Rai: And it does not exist for me.
• 18:29
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Tina?
• 18:31
  Tina Strachan: Yes, I, well, it's a bit different for me for kids' books.
• 18:35
  Tina Strachan: It's not really a thing as much, so I am happy about that.
• 18:40
  Tina Strachan: I, um, yeah, so I haven't really been looking because I think I had like two reviews or something, or I don't, so I don't really know what the norm is.
• 18:49
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, so kids, it's a little bit different with, um, children's social, but I thought is three is three stars on Good Reads, actually.
• 18:56
  Tina Strachan: Like.
• 18:57
  Tina Strachan: Or are people seriously five starring things?
• 18:59
  Tina Strachan: 'cause I wasn't sure, you know how they say don't, sometimes they say don't five star things.
• 19:03
  Tina Strachan: 'cause that's sometimes meaningless if you're, I think five Star is
• 19:06
  Madeleine Cleary: great, three stars.
• 19:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, okay.
• 19:08
  Tina Strachan: It's
• 19:09
  Madeleine Cleary: just, it's like, okay.
• 19:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Like it, it's not bad, but it's, it's just like, okay, four stars is you really enjoyed it.
• 19:15
  Madeleine Cleary: And then five stars is, oh, like
• 19:16
  Tina Strachan: this is out of this world.
• 19:18
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Tina Strachan: I changed my life.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: Okay, cool.
• 19:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 19:22
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, not, not such a, a big thing for me, which is great.
• 19:26
  Madeleine Cleary: One less thing to worry about.
• 19:28
  Tina Strachan: Alright.
• 19:29
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 19:29
  Tina Strachan: Back at me and I'm, so, I'm gonna ask question number 2,
• 19:33
  2 2, Natasha.
• 19:37
  Okay.
• 19:39
  What is your highest high and your lowest low?
• 19:43
  Natasha Rai: Since.
• 19:46
  Natasha Rai: That's a good question.
• 19:48
  Natasha Rai: Who wrote that?
• 19:48
  Natasha Rai: No, I'm kidding.
• 19:49
  Natasha Rai: Um, my highest high definitely is, it's an amalgamation of things, so definitely seeing it on the bookshelf every single time, it just hits me right in the heart in a very beautiful way and getting feedback from people that they loved it best, best highs ever.
• 20:08
  Uh,
• 20:08
  Natasha Rai: lowest of the low, uh, I dunno, maybe sometimes a bit of worry that.
• 20:16
  Natasha Rai: I'm not doing enough to get it out there, or I'm worried that as time goes on, like it'll just disappear.
• 20:23
  Natasha Rai: But I guess that's more of a worry than a low, I have to say I haven't really had like a low, low moment.
• 20:29
  Natasha Rai: It's more about future fears and worries.
• 20:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Which can make you feel low, right?
• 20:34
  Madeleine Cleary: When you think about it.
• 20:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:36
  Madeleine Cleary: I think that is a very common anxiety as well, particularly around.
• 20:41
  Madeleine Cleary: I think you put, you put in your heart and soul to, to your first novel.
• 20:46
  Madeleine Cleary: You know, this is culmination of years and years.
• 20:49
  Madeleine Cleary: It's.
• 20:50
  Madeleine Cleary: It's so exciting and you have no idea what's around the corner.
• 20:54
  Madeleine Cleary: And then when you put your book out, you realize how many books there are out there in the world.
• 21:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 21:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 21:01
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Natasha Rai: And even each week that goes by almost, there's a new book out every month.
• 21:06
  Natasha Rai: There's new book.
• 21:07
  Natasha Rai: Oh, every day.
• 21:07
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 21:08
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 21:08
  Natasha Rai: So
• 21:09
  Tina Strachan: that's what I was saying to Madeleine, like, you know about the, you know, ranking in Amazon, um, recently.
• 21:15
  Tina Strachan: 'cause there's books in, and I'm sure this is the same for.
• 21:19
  Tina Strachan: The categories for like adult.
• 21:21
  Tina Strachan: Category books because like with kids books, the children's books category has, and this is the same for Big W and probably All Dmex and all the other bigger places that have it online.
• 21:33
  Tina Strachan: They, they categorize it.
• 21:34
  Tina Strachan: It's in there with coloring books.
• 21:36
  Tina Strachan: It's in there with, uh, recipe books.
• 21:38
  Tina Strachan: It's in there with, um, picture books, like everything, like baby board books, like everything, you know, it's, um.
• 21:49
  Tina Strachan: There's just these mainstays in the, you know, top 500 that are just always there and you just, they're never gonna leave the top 500, you know, Harry Potters, you know, all these long standing ones and like, it'd be the same for the adult genre.
• 22:04
  Tina Strachan: I'm sure.
• 22:05
  Tina Strachan: You know, you'd have all those real long standing classics that just always there and, and yeah, it.
• 22:10
  Tina Strachan: So you've almost gotta go like, oh, am I in the top few thousand or 10,000?
• 22:15
  Tina Strachan: And that's, that's really good, you know, to, to even be like that.
• 22:18
  Tina Strachan: I think as a debut, you like, you're sort of, it's, um, a lot to, to sort of get a bit lower than that, I think, um, which is a bit daunting at first, but when you, you look at that and you look who is taking up the top, you know, 500 just with these, these books, um, that have just been there forever.
• 22:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's, you can understand why.
• 22:36
  Tina Strachan: Um, how do
• 22:37
  Madeleine Cleary: you become a longstanding book?
• 22:38
  Madeleine Cleary: That's been something I've been thinking about, and I think like prize winners, award winners that, you know, down the track if your book's kind of, you know, fading momentum, which happens to, I think every book that can like, you know, be another spurt.
• 22:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah.
• 22:56
  Madeleine Cleary: And then word of mouth of course is always gonna be the thing that sells books.
• 23:00
  Madeleine Cleary: As things start to turn TikTok as well.
• 23:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Like if your book suddenly goes on to book talk, there can be an there.
• 23:08
  Madeleine Cleary: But all of these things are things outside of our control.
• 23:11
  Madeleine Cleary: So it doesn't matter how many library events or bookstore events that we are doing Instagram posts in the scheme of things.
• 23:18
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 23:19
  Madeleine Cleary: It's not, yeah, it's nothing that we can do and it's, you know, um, what.
• 23:25
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't know what determines, you know, what bookstores get, how many copies of which book.
• 23:30
  Madeleine Cleary: But that is also a huge factor as well.
• 23:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Having your book in, you know, quantities, amounts in the front part of the store.
• 23:37
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause once your book goes onto the shelf, it's, it's really difficult.
• 23:41
  Madeleine Cleary: So, yeah, I think there's, all we can focus on is the writing, isn't it?
• 23:46
  Madeleine Cleary: And writing exactly.
• 23:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Alex and writing good books and being part of the industry and the community, I think.
• 23:51
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree.
• 23:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:52
  Tina Strachan: And remembering it's a long game, I think too, isn't it?
• 23:55
  Tina Strachan: It's a long game.
• 23:56
  Tina Strachan: Hey, um, okay, so Madeleine, and when you release
• 24:01
  Madeleine Cleary: the second book, people will go back to your back list as well, if they really loved it.
• 24:04
  Madeleine Cleary: So yes, the other, and that will be happening to you soon, Tina.
• 24:09
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 24:09
  Tina Strachan: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 24:10
  Tina Strachan: Very soon, like eight weeks away.
• 24:13
  Tina Strachan: Hopefully.
• 24:13
  Tina Strachan: Book, book two.
• 24:15
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 24:15
  Tina Strachan: Madeleine, you'll turn to ask a question.
• 24:17
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 24:18
  Tina Strachan: Um, your question number two is for me.
• 24:20
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 24:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, well this is an easy one for you, Tina.
• 24:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 24:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Where is book two
• 24:27
  Tina Strachan: segue?
• 24:29
  Tina Strachan: Well, that was handy, wasn't it?
• 24:32
  Tina Strachan: Um, where is book two?
• 24:32
  Tina Strachan: It's, um, probably at the printing house at the moment, I think.
• 24:37
  Tina Strachan: Um, or on, its, it's probably being printed, right?
• 24:39
  Tina Strachan: So it's, so July.
• 24:41
  Tina Strachan: Two, it hits itself, shelves, Nika, and the storm.
• 24:45
  Tina Strachan: Um, and yeah, so I'm just, you know, sort of planning launches and events and all sorts of things.
• 24:52
  Tina Strachan: Um, again, which is great.
• 24:54
  Tina Strachan: It's super fun.
• 24:54
  Tina Strachan: This is the very, this is the really fun part of the process, I think.
• 24:58
  Tina Strachan: And then, and then the, then the time going around and, and, um, yeah, promoting it.
• 25:02
  Tina Strachan: So I am really looking forward to that.
• 25:04
  Tina Strachan: Does it feel different?
• 25:06
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yeah, it, I think it, yes it does.
• 25:08
  Tina Strachan: I think, I mean, it's still fun.
• 25:10
  Tina Strachan: Um, I, and exciting, but I think it's, uh, you know, the sort of an, not so much anxieties, but sort of the.
• 25:19
  Tina Strachan: You know, the kind of unknowns of the first time are a little bit more known now, like mm-hmm.
• 25:24
  Tina Strachan: You know, a bit more comfortable with, you know, going, going to events because, you know, I've done them before and know what to expect to a degree.
• 25:32
  Tina Strachan: I'm sure there's always gonna be something unexpected.
• 25:34
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah.
• 25:35
  Tina Strachan: And just, yeah, just.
• 25:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, just the fun of it, I guess, and enjoying it, you know, savoring those times.
• 25:42
  Tina Strachan: I think, um, instead of being, you know, a little bit like shell-shocked I think the first time.
• 25:48
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, no, I'm really looking forward to it.
• 25:51
  Tina Strachan: But, um, that was a good segue for, for my, for me, but also like I was, it would've been funnier for you guys.
• 26:00
  Tina Strachan: Where's book two?
• 26:01
  Tina Strachan: You know how people always
• 26:01
  ask that?
• 26:02
  Where's book two?
• 26:04
  Your next one?
• 26:05
  Where is it, Natasha?
• 26:07
  Um, actually with my publisher,
• 26:11
  Natasha Rai: like, oh, okay.
• 26:12
  Natasha Rai: It's, yeah.
• 26:13
  Natasha Rai: So I'm just waiting to hear next things, but I've, I've sent it in to see how it is and what they think and yeah.
• 26:22
  Natasha Rai: Is it finished?
• 26:23
  Natasha Rai: You've written the whole thing.
• 26:24
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 26:25
  Natasha Rai: Because Onslaught took so long.
• 26:27
  Natasha Rai: I've actually written three manuscripts in that time, so, um, it's actually really good to just have it away and just.
• 26:35
  Natasha Rai: Now again, things are outta my control.
• 26:37
  Natasha Rai: There's something I can do about it, but it's out there with somebody and I'll just wait and see and I can just keep going on the next one.
• 26:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the, the spirit, the right thing to do.
• 26:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 26:48
  Tina Strachan: I think, isn't it?
• 26:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Tina Strachan: Just keep on going.
• 26:51
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Tina Strachan: Uh, Madeleine, right?
• 26:53
  Tina Strachan: Natasha, I'm So, I
• 26:54
  Madeleine Cleary: can't wait for your book two, and it sounds so good.
• 26:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah.
• 26:59
  Madeleine Cleary: My book two is, um, I just started it Friday.
• 27:03
  Madeleine Cleary: So, um, ah, literally started it.
• 27:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Madeleine Cleary: That, which was really fun.
• 27:09
  Madeleine Cleary: So I, I mean, I think I've said on the podcast before I was, I've, I mean, I've got in her words, which was shortlisted for the Australian Fiction Prize last year.
• 27:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Just we're just gonna.
• 27:20
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm gonna focus on my historical fiction right now though,'cause that's contemporary.
• 27:23
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I'm really enjoying writing historical fiction.
• 27:25
  Madeleine Cleary: So we're just gonna put that one.
• 27:27
  Madeleine Cleary: It's just in the, you know, in the, in the, in the shelf.
• 27:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Just for now, in the draw for now.
• 27:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 27:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but yeah, and then I started another historical fiction last year, which I might still go back to, but it's been taken over by a new idea, a really exciting idea.
• 27:42
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'm now focusing on that one.
• 27:44
  Hmm.
• 27:45
  Oh fun.
• 27:46
  Madeleine Cleary: That's exciting.
• 27:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:47
  Madeleine Cleary: You, I've gotta, I had to follow Charlotte Woods Vice, you know, which was, you've gotta follow the heat.
• 27:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, the heat, exactly, yes.
• 27:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Pointing me in this direction.
• 27:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:56
  Madeleine Cleary: I love how we're all answering the questions.
• 27:58
  Madeleine Cleary: I know
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: we don't like being interviewed on our own, do we?
• 28:03
  Tina Strachan: We just, oh, okay.
• 28:07
  Tina Strachan: My turn.
• 28:08
  Tina Strachan: So question number three, and it's.
• 28:13
  Tina Strachan: What, you may have just answered this, what's next and how, and has your approach to writing changed?
• 28:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, I think it has changed, uh, because I've, I've had a few false starts actually writing.
• 28:31
  Madeleine Cleary: I, going back to new writing since, not, not just since the Butterfly Women's being published, but I think over the last year working on the edits.
• 28:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I.
• 28:42
  Madeleine Cleary: What it's come down to is I need to be able to go back to that pure writing, which is writing for myself, writing the story that I wanna write, and not thinking about an audience and a market.
• 28:59
  Madeleine Cleary: And because I think now that you, when you write.
• 29:03
  Madeleine Cleary: And I think it's not about the publication day, it's actually about when you get your contract, suddenly your writing now becomes, it feels more important because you think this could very likely be published and readers may, may very much be writing, whereas before that you don't have no idea if, if anyone's gonna read it other than your mom or your husband.
• 29:24
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I think I, I've had to learn over the last year and a half.
• 29:29
  Madeleine Cleary: To not think about other people and just to think about the story that I wanna write.
• 29:33
  Madeleine Cleary: And that's been a long, it's been a long lesson for me and I think I'm just starting to get back to that now.
• 29:39
  Madeleine Cleary: That pure sense.
• 29:40
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you
• 29:40
  guys, Natasha?
• 29:44
  Natasha Rai: Uh, well because I've been writing the whole time that I've been trying to get on sort, published, it's very, it feels natural to me not to think about any audience out there.
• 29:55
  Natasha Rai: 'cause for so long I never had one.
• 29:57
  Natasha Rai: Um.
• 29:59
  Natasha Rai: So that I know what you mean Madeleine, about, I guess what may have changed is it feels more possible now to get something published, but also I'm, I don't know how to write for an intended audience anyway, and I don't know how I would even do that.
• 30:16
  Natasha Rai: So I'm, I feel very lucky and fortunate that my brain doesn't do that, that I can just continue following the heat.
• 30:24
  Natasha Rai: And writing out the ideas that I just call into me, regardless of what may happen to them.
• 30:29
  Natasha Rai: And I think as well personally, not having a second book or two book deal also helps me with that because I just feel that it's very freeing for me.
• 30:38
  Natasha Rai: And I know some people out there might just find that quite terrifying.
• 30:42
  Natasha Rai: But for me, I, I, I really love that freedom.
• 30:44
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 30:45
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 30:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 30:46
  Tina Strachan: That's a good place to be.
• 30:47
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 30:48
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 30:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 30:49
  Tina Strachan: Well, I guess it's kind of bit different.
• 30:51
  Tina Strachan: For me, because I'm just, I'm just gonna answer this question.
• 30:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, no.
• 30:54
  Tina Strachan: Answer it.
• 30:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, go for it.
• 30:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, a bit, a bit different for me because I knew I had those, I had the three books I had to write, um, but they were all written before I.
• 31:06
  Tina Strachan: Book one was released anyway, so that was, so that's probably the same sort of thing, like I just wrote them in the style that, you know, and the spirit of, um, the first book.
• 31:17
  Tina Strachan: Uh, but yeah, I always, I've been writing other books as well and I've, yeah, just sort of been, I.
• 31:23
  Tina Strachan: Writing what's been coming to me as well.
• 31:25
  Tina Strachan: So I try not to think too much about the, how it was sell and all those sorts of things.
• 31:30
  Tina Strachan: That can come later, I guess.
• 31:32
  Tina Strachan: But life writing in the heat, Madeleine, yeah, just writing it where the heat is and whatever happens external to that.
• 31:38
  Tina Strachan: Once it's finished and it's outta my control, you know, in in, in the land of, you know, acquisitions and selling in and all that sort of thing, then.
• 31:47
  Tina Strachan: That'll be what it'll be, I think.
• 31:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Tina Strachan: We're
• 31:50
  Natasha Rai: such healthy, well adjusted writers,
• 31:52
  Tina Strachan: aren't we?
• 31:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 31:53
  Madeleine Cleary: It's taken a while, I think as well.
• 31:55
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's not even, um, the pressure, I, I mean, we all probably put ourselves under a lot of pressure, um, to do well, and it's not even you, you don't even want your book to do well for you.
• 32:09
  Madeleine Cleary: You want your book to do well for all the people that have worked so hard on it and around it.
• 32:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 32:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I definitely feel, I definitely felt that I think in the lead up and I wanted to write a book for my follow up that will, you know, that I think, and this is a hard thing to say, but that will do well because, well, you know, you just feel.
• 32:33
  Madeleine Cleary: You wanna justify all that expense and time and effort, not just for me.
• 32:39
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 32:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And so once you, yeah, when you are, when you do know it's going to be published, you've got, you do feel that weight, I think, and I think that's unreasonable to put that on yourself.
• 32:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Because like we were saying earlier, so much of it is outside of your control.
• 32:54
  Madeleine Cleary: If it doesn't do well from a sales perspective, it doesn't mean that it's because you didn't do all that you could.
• 33:02
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I'm sure everybody who's putting a book out in the world has done everything could.
• 33:05
  Madeleine Cleary: So that's been a lesson for me to learn, to not put that pressure on myself.
• 33:08
  Madeleine Cleary: And I definitely had a lot of sleepless nights,
• 33:10
  Tina Strachan: I think, thinking about that.
• 33:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:14
  Tina Strachan: That's hard.
• 33:14
  Tina Strachan: And enjoy not having that deadline as well.
• 33:16
  Tina Strachan: Like I know you're saying some people would freak out about not having a second book signed, but having a deadline does absolutely change things, I think.
• 33:26
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 33:26
  Tina Strachan: Just knowing that it's there and even subconsciously,
• 33:30
  Madeleine Cleary: you
• 33:30
  Tina Strachan: know, um.
• 33:32
  Tina Strachan: It's just rushes things a little bit like the natural process that you would've probably gone through anyway, that's what I found with my last one.
• 33:40
  Tina Strachan: Um, my last book anyway was, um, I went through probably all the same processes that you would normally, except I had to condense it and.
• 33:49
  Tina Strachan: It all happens, you know?
• 33:50
  Tina Strachan: 'cause you do naturally, you throw away words and naturally you, you write off on a tangent and go whoop and have to bring it back in and, and, or you write down one path that's not leading in the right direction.
• 34:01
  Tina Strachan: And that just happens naturally.
• 34:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 34:03
  Tina Strachan: When you write.
• 34:04
  Tina Strachan: But when you've got such a short amount of time, you're conscious of trying not to do that.
• 34:08
  Tina Strachan: But you almost still have to do it anyway as the process to get from A to B.
• 34:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:12
  Tina Strachan: Like it's just what you have to do.
• 34:13
  Tina Strachan: So then you're trying to do it quickly and then you're not sure.
• 34:15
  Tina Strachan: And I think you second guess yourself and yeah, I found it really.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: Tricky, um, in the last time got there in the end, but it was just, everything was just condensed.
• 34:24
  Tina Strachan: Instead of putting it down for a week, it was like, no, pick it back up again tomorrow morning and keep trying to find that solution.
• 34:30
  Tina Strachan: So
• 34:32
  Madeleine Cleary: in the end, and I think it's really common, I think so many of our day Boo Crew have.
• 34:35
  Madeleine Cleary: It's the two book deals.
• 34:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 34:36
  Madeleine Cleary: And they've been trying to write and edit while also doing publicity.
• 34:40
  Madeleine Cleary: For one.
• 34:41
  Madeleine Cleary: It, it's a lot of, it's a, it's it's intense while, and a lot of them have families and, and work commitments as well.
• 34:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Trying to balance all those things.
• 34:49
  Madeleine Cleary: It is, yeah.
• 34:49
  Madeleine Cleary: It can, it's a
• 34:50
  Madeleine Cleary (2): lot.
• 34:50
  Madeleine Cleary (2): It's a lot.
• 34:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Susan Joy-Lu: Nana Crackles is no ordinary Nana.
• 35:00
  Susan Joy-Lu: She spreads joy and color everywhere she goes.
• 35:04
  Susan Joy-Lu: Even on her way to fetch bananas at home, she always knows exactly what everything needs.
• 35:13
  Susan Joy-Lu: But what will she do when she finds a friend in Need?
• 35:18
  Susan Joy-Lu: A delightful debut about kindness and community.
• 35:24
  Susan Joy-Lu: Nana Crackles is the brand new debut picture, book written and illustrated by me, Susan Joy Lu, published by the wonderful team at Scholastic Nana.
• 35:38
  Susan Joy-Lu: Crackles is one fabulous, feisty, and fiercely kind.
• 35:43
  Susan Joy-Lu: Nana with a serious love for her favorite food, bananas.
• 35:49
  Susan Joy-Lu: Filled with humor and heart.
• 35:51
  Susan Joy-Lu: The story of Nana crackles defies stereotypes and shows how this Nana takes care of those around her in her own unique way.
• 36:01
  Susan Joy-Lu: Going to extreme and entertaining lengths to put others first and to spread joy as she goes.
• 36:11
  Susan Joy-Lu: We see the impact of small acts of kindness.
• 36:14
  Susan Joy-Lu: And how a community can come together to meet everyone's needs and have a lot of fun in the process.
• 36:24
  Susan Joy-Lu: Nana crackles and I would like to thank Tina for the opportunity to introduce you to this completely Banana story on this episode of the Book Deal podcast.
• 36:35
  Susan Joy-Lu: Nana by Susan Joy-Lu is out now.
• 36:39
  Susan Joy-Lu: Happy reading.
• 36:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Why can't we all just go on retreats and just spend a whole week, just exactly
• 36:50
  Natasha Rai: all that lovely time.
• 36:51
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 36:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Lovely.
• 36:52
  Natasha Rai: Just a week.
• 36:54
  Natasha Rai: Oh yeah, let's do two.
• 36:55
  Tina Strachan: Let's do a month in France.
• 36:57
  Tina Strachan: Maybe that, that would also be nice.
• 37:00
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 37:00
  Tina Strachan: Natasha, I think it's you.
• 37:02
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 37:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Tina Strachan: And your question is
• 37:04
  Natasha Rai: for Madeleine.
• 37:05
  Natasha Rai: Madeleine.
• 37:06
  Natasha Rai: Okay.
• 37:07
  Natasha Rai: Was the experience how you expected and or planned for, and if not, what was unexpected?
• 37:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, that, this was my question actually, and I didn't even plan my response to it.
• 37:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Um.
• 37:22
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't think it was what I expected.
• 37:25
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't think, and I don't think you can plan for it.
• 37:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I think, I mean, I'm a planner.
• 37:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I think we all are, you know, type A women like to be organized and plan for things and, and I, I don't know.
• 37:36
  Madeleine Cleary: I, I, I tried to do everything I could, but I was not expecting the incredible social media response on the day of release.
• 37:48
  Madeleine Cleary: I completely underestimated how I.
• 37:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Intense.
• 37:51
  Madeleine Cleary: It would be when the book was released on the day of release.
• 37:54
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'd gone into work that day, uh, into the office and that was a really stupid decision.
• 38:00
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I thought, oh, well the book's not even gonna be out in the bookshops.
• 38:02
  Madeleine Cleary: There's nothing I can do.
• 38:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I may as well just go to work and that will help me, you know, um, I won't be just staring at my phone.
• 38:09
  Madeleine Cleary: But then I missed out on so much because everyone's on there and commenting and then you feel overwhelmed.
• 38:14
  Madeleine Cleary: A after work on the train home.
• 38:16
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm just trying to like, like everything quickly and not take it all in.
• 38:20
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I think that was unexpected.
• 38:22
  Madeleine Cleary: I think the other thing is that so much good stuff happens.
• 38:25
  Madeleine Cleary: I.
• 38:27
  Madeleine Cleary: But you're so exhausted and you're in, you're doing it all in a really condensed amount of time.
• 38:32
  Madeleine Cleary: I really wish you could spread all these incredible moments out into a long, like six month period.
• 38:37
  Madeleine Cleary: So then you can really just reflect and take in and and appreciate the moment.
• 38:43
  Madeleine Cleary: But because everything is so condensed, you're just like quickly going from things to things and, and.
• 38:48
  Madeleine Cleary: It's all so amazing, but I think now I'm gonna be able to step back and take a step back and just reflect and enjoy and enjoy all those little moments.
• 38:56
  Madeleine Cleary: So, yeah, I think next time I'm gonna not work over that period.
• 39:03
  Madeleine Cleary (2): At least not that day.
• 39:04
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Please.
• 39:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Not the day.
• 39:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Not the day.
• 39:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Madeleine Cleary: So what about, what about you guys?
• 39:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Maybe Tina?
• 39:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I
• 39:10
  Tina Strachan: agree with you, Madeleine.
• 39:11
  Tina Strachan: That first day I was.
• 39:13
  Tina Strachan: Shocked and surprised and I knew how supportive the writer's community is anyway.
• 39:17
  Tina Strachan: And our day, our kid that day, boo Crew and our day Boo crew.
• 39:20
  Tina Strachan: And, um, it, but you know,'cause it takes time.
• 39:25
  Tina Strachan: Like I know I, um, I put time aside like, you know, and I make a conscious effort to share people's, um, share people's announcements and their book releases.
• 39:36
  Tina Strachan: And I, you know, commenting and liking.
• 39:38
  Tina Strachan: And I, and I try to make an effort because I know how that.
• 39:41
  Tina Strachan: Feels when people do it for, for me, and I love it.
• 39:44
  Tina Strachan: You feel so supportive, but I, I, there's never enough time to, to do every, you know, everything that you wanna do and, and share everybody's, you know, good news and things like that in their highs.
• 39:55
  Tina Strachan: But, um, I.
• 39:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, so I, I, but I was still just blown away on that first day of, you know, people just sharing that it's book release day.
• 40:03
  Tina Strachan: And I was like, wow, like you are, you've paid attention and you're, you are happy about this.
• 40:08
  Tina Strachan: And you know, and then reviews coming in just absolute blown away.
• 40:13
  Madeleine Cleary: And part of the community, you feel, you feel that community sense, I think even if it's online, but I mean, in reality too, like in real life.
• 40:19
  Madeleine Cleary: But yeah.
• 40:20
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Natasha?
• 40:22
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, I agree with what you've both said about that first day or the first few days even after release.
• 40:26
  Natasha Rai: I was really surprised.
• 40:28
  Natasha Rai: And the other thing I'm really surprised about and I realized this says more about me than anyone else, so I'm caveating it.
• 40:34
  Natasha Rai: For some reason, I imagined that I would be having to talk about my novel in front of really hostile people.
• 40:40
  Natasha Rai: I dunno why like that they would be coming to like, tell me how a crap it is and why did I write it?
• 40:47
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 40:47
  Natasha Rai: So in my head I kept coming up with all of these things I could say about I.
• 40:52
  Natasha Rai: Why I wrote it and why it's, you know, it's good.
• 40:57
  Natasha Rai: So justifying yourself.
• 40:58
  Natasha Rai: I know.
• 40:58
  Natasha Rai: It's so weird, isn't it?
• 41:00
  Natasha Rai: Because even if you just took out my weirdness out of that, thank, why would anyone waste their time?
• 41:05
  Natasha Rai: Someone else, if you enjoyed this episode to the pod.
• 41:09
  Natasha Rai: So you can receive updates as soon as, actually, to be honest, that was unexpected surprise.
• 41:14
  Natasha Rai: And I had people in the room also who were smiling and kind and generous and were there to support me, and I was like, oh yeah, you don't, you haven't come here to tell me what a horrible job I've done.
• 41:24
  Oh, it's, that's,
• 41:27
  Natasha Rai: I know.
• 41:28
  Natasha Rai: It's so weird.
• 41:28
  Natasha Rai: Like I know it's, that's probably something I need to think about at some point, but yeah.
• 41:33
  Natasha Rai: Have
• 41:34
  Tina Strachan: you seen that happen though elsewhere?
• 41:36
  Tina Strachan: I.
• 41:37
  Natasha Rai: And is where it's come from.
• 41:38
  Natasha Rai: So I think, yeah, I have seen it, but I've realized there weren't authors writing fiction.
• 41:43
  Natasha Rai: So I've seen that happen at maybe panels where people are talking more about ideas or maybe political ideas where they've been really not abused, but there's a very hostile people in the crowd going, you know, Bala, how can you talk say that, or I'm off that, whatever.
• 41:58
  Natasha Rai: So that's, I guess what I had in mind when I was like, oh my God, that's gonna happen.
• 42:03
  Tina Strachan: I was like, I'm gonna have all the elephant keepers of the world emailing me, telling me.
• 42:11
  Tina Strachan: That, that is not the appropriate, um, substrate to keep an elephant on.
• 42:17
  Tina Strachan: I just, I did so much like background checking and husband dream manual research and to try, and I was like sending diagrams to the illustrator, be like, can you make it?
• 42:31
  Tina Strachan: This is what we do now and has to be safe and all those sorts of things, but not one email yet.
• 42:37
  Tina Strachan: So.
• 42:38
  Tina Strachan: I'm
• 42:39
  Natasha Rai: an
• 42:39
  Tina Strachan: elephant keeper.
• 42:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 42:41
  Natasha Rai: But it's so interesting where our minds go, isn't it like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:46
  Tina Strachan: Oh gosh.
• 42:47
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 42:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 42:48
  Tina Strachan: Could be a lot worse.
• 42:50
  Tina Strachan: So far so good.
• 42:51
  Tina Strachan: Um, I've forgotten whose turn it is.
• 42:53
  Tina Strachan: I think I just asked Madeleine that.
• 42:55
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 42:55
  Tina Strachan: So I'm, I, I am confused because I feel like I've.
• 43:00
  Tina Strachan: And I don't have a question.
• 43:01
  Tina Strachan: You do?
• 43:02
  Tina Strachan: Uh, right here in the chat.
• 43:04
  Tina Strachan: Oh, brilliant.
• 43:05
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 43:06
  Tina Strachan: Professional.
• 43:08
  Tina Strachan: Um,
• 43:09
  Madeleine Cleary: and it's for Natasha.
• 43:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 43:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Alright, Natasha, here we go.
• 43:13
  Madeleine Cleary: What is your least favorite thing to do when it comes to publicity?
• 43:19
  Natasha Rai: This is actually my question.
• 43:20
  Natasha Rai: Um, I have to say social media.
• 43:25
  Natasha Rai: Only because I'm not very good at it.
• 43:27
  Natasha Rai: Not because I don't think that people, you know, use it for very good reasons.
• 43:31
  Natasha Rai: It's just, I find it, I never know whether I should do a post or a story or if it's even worth posting.
• 43:38
  Natasha Rai: And sometimes I just bore myself and I'm like, well, if I'm bored by it, why would anyone else wanna read it?
• 43:44
  Natasha Rai: Um, and I just, I love your posts.
• 43:47
  Natasha Rai: You do fantastic views.
• 43:48
  Natasha Rai: Oh, well thank you.
• 43:49
  Natasha Rai: I didn't know that.
• 43:50
  Natasha Rai: I mean, I don't, I actually really like posting about other books.
• 43:52
  Natasha Rai: It's more that self.
• 43:54
  Natasha Rai: Publicity that I'm just like, oh God, do I sound like I'm really up myself?
• 43:58
  Natasha Rai: Why?
• 43:59
  Natasha Rai: Why would I post that?
• 44:01
  Natasha Rai: So I, that's my least favorite thing.
• 44:02
  Natasha Rai: My, even though the question doesn't ask it, my favorite thing of all is speaking to people, um, at events or at festivals where we're just having a really lovely chat about books and reading and other writers about craft and that their books.
• 44:15
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, so social media's probably my least favorite'cause I'm not very good at it.
• 44:19
  Madeleine Cleary: Do you think it's the Australian toll poppy syndrome as well?
• 44:23
  Madeleine Cleary: In on social media, you know, like talking about yourself.
• 44:28
  I don't know, like we are scared to, to
• 44:30
  Tina Strachan: do it.
• 44:31
  Tina Strachan: I don't know.
• 44:31
  Tina Strachan: Some people seem to be able to do it really well.
• 44:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's definitely been a new thing for me because even on my personal, like I had an, I have a personal Instagram account that's separate to the author one, which has one post on it.
• 44:46
  Tina Strachan: Um, and I, and my face, like my Facebook, I don't post on.
• 44:52
  Tina Strachan: I had think a post of the ages.
• 44:54
  Tina Strachan: So, um, but I, it helped for me having an author one, a separate one that I felt comfortable with, um, kinda like a different persona and I felt like it's okay to Same do that.
• 45:04
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:05
  Tina Strachan: On there.
• 45:06
  Tina Strachan: Um, and people want to know, people wanna know what you're up to.
• 45:10
  Tina Strachan: It's a bit weird at first.
• 45:12
  Tina Strachan: I think it's a bit easier now'cause you have a bit more fodder out there to play with.
• 45:15
  Tina Strachan: Like you, you've just got natural reviews and things like that that you can post.
• 45:19
  Tina Strachan: Whereas before it's um, it's a little bit different.
• 45:21
  Tina Strachan: But, um,
• 45:23
  Madeleine Cleary: and I think if people have put time into reviews, like it makes sense for us to share that.
• 45:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, you know, people have spent so much time crafting.
• 45:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 45:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, that's true.
• 45:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 45:33
  Madeleine Cleary: And don't they make them look beautiful?
• 45:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Do, do.
• 45:36
  Madeleine Cleary: The least we can do is to share that.
• 45:39
  Madeleine Cleary: It's not in the spirit of, oh, look at me like this is, I've got a five star review.
• 45:43
  Madeleine Cleary: It's like,
• 45:44
  Natasha Rai: yeah, I think that is a really good point because I don't, for me personally, that's not what I don't like sharing.
• 45:49
  Natasha Rai: It's more like if I get some news or I have to, I don't know, talk about the book in some way that's comes from me.
• 45:56
  Natasha Rai: I'm always like, oh God,
• 45:58
  Madeleine Cleary: but make it about other people.
• 45:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Maybe.
• 45:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Then Natasha like, yeah, yeah, you know, you could, you could say, oh.
• 46:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I've got this great piece of news like, you know, I think I've done that recently.
• 46:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, oh, I, I felt, I ha, I understand Natasha.
• 46:10
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I'm like, oh people must be so fricking sick of me now'cause it's just
• 46:15
  Natasha Rai: been so much.
• 46:16
  Natasha Rai: Which is, which is so weird, Madeleine.
• 46:17
  Natasha Rai: 'cause you posted about starting your second book and I was so excited for you.
• 46:22
  Natasha Rai: Like, I, you know, I was like, oh my God, that's so
• 46:24
  Madeleine Cleary: exciting.
• 46:24
  Natasha Rai: You,
• 46:24
  Madeleine Cleary: you have this internal dialogue.
• 46:26
  Madeleine Cleary: You're like, oh, people must be so bored now.
• 46:28
  Madeleine Cleary: But then you, then you talk and people are like, no, no, no, this is, we, we wanna know how you're going and what all, like, we're, we're here for you.
• 46:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, this is great.
• 46:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:35
  Madeleine Cleary: But, but yeah, I've tried to like make, like, you know, shout out to the booksellers and shout out to the, to the, the reviewers.
• 46:41
  Madeleine Cleary: And the bloggers and like all those amazing people in this industry to make it about them.
• 46:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Because without them.
• 46:48
  Madeleine Cleary: We wouldn't be able to do what we do.
• 46:49
  That's
• 46:49
  Madeleine Cleary: true.
• 46:50
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I'm trying to do that every occasion to make it less like, oh, look at me.
• 46:54
  Madeleine Cleary: You know,
• 46:54
  look at all the
• 46:55
  Madeleine Cleary: cool things.
• 46:56
  Um, what's the favorite thing about publicity?
• 47:01
  Oh, that's, I'm the same.
• 47:03
  Oh, you're the same?
• 47:03
  Okay.
• 47:04
  So all the same.
• 47:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 47:06
  Madeleine Cleary: I mean, it's, it's, that's, you know, when something can be really good and really bad at the same time.
• 47:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 47:13
  Madeleine Cleary: I think that's social media because you're getting all this amazing validation.
• 47:17
  Madeleine Cleary: But it's also, it, it, yeah.
• 47:20
  Madeleine Cleary: You just don't know what you should be doing all the time.
• 47:23
  Madeleine Cleary: And if people are judging you.
• 47:25
  Yeah.
• 47:26
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Tina?
• 47:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I know, and I'm looking at the time like, oh my God, we're, we're, we're almost through it.
• 47:32
  Madeleine Cleary: We, we, don't we?
• 47:33
  Madeleine Cleary: That's all our questions.
• 47:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 47:35
  Madeleine Cleary: What's your least favorite thing,
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: Tina?
• 47:37
  Tina Strachan: Um, um, what was it about publicity?
• 47:41
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 47:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, I'd probably say socials as well.
• 47:46
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 47:47
  Tina Strachan: Um, it takes me a while to do a social media post sometimes.
• 47:50
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 47:51
  Tina Strachan: Um, and sometimes I, like I have, I actually have the, I like.
• 47:56
  Tina Strachan: Ideas of things that I want to post.
• 47:58
  Tina Strachan: Like I was just going to do a big reviewer's post, which I will do.
• 48:03
  Tina Strachan: It's my mental note to self to do today.
• 48:05
  Tina Strachan: Um, because yeah, there's still reviews coming up for Nikki and the missing key now, and I just, there's a beautiful one in the Magpies magazine last.
• 48:16
  Tina Strachan: In the May issue, um, by Brenton Cullen.
• 48:19
  Tina Strachan: And honestly, he just mo wrote the most beautiful words and I'm so appreciative of that.
• 48:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, and I guess that's probably my most favorite thing about pub publicity is reading those, reading people's words, where they've actually said in their own words, you know, they've read the book and then they've said in their own words.
• 48:37
  Tina Strachan: Good things about it and you're just like, oh, that's so nice because you know, you're so close to it and you could probably never think those things about your own book.
• 48:46
  Tina Strachan: I mean, I know I can't, I mean, you know, you think this is a good book and that's enjoyable and the kids will like it, but to have people put their own spin on it is pretty incredible.
• 48:53
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 48:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Tina post that so we can read it.
• 48:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh my, oh no, that's just
• 48:57
  Tina Strachan: thinking.
• 48:57
  Tina Strachan: I just got the copy of it, so I will.
• 48:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I definitely will.
• 49:00
  Tina Strachan: It's
• 49:01
  lovely.
• 49:02
  It just so lovely.
• 49:03
  Yeah.
• 49:04
  Oh.
• 49:05
  All right.
• 49:05
  Well we should wrap up Quickly note, that was, that was, that was really
• 49:09
  Natasha Rai: fun.
• 49:09
  Natasha Rai: I love those questions.
• 49:10
  Natasha Rai: This is
• 49:11
  Madeleine Cleary (2): really good.
• 49:11
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Do it again because my system was really good too.
• 49:15
  Tina Strachan: I worked really
• 49:16
  Madeleine Cleary (2): system, totally worked
• 49:17
  Tina Strachan: because you know, it's even better.
• 49:18
  Tina Strachan: I have like this one leftover name and I can't work out where it's going from.
• 49:24
  Tina Strachan: So, um,
• 49:25
  Madeleine Cleary: yeah.
• 49:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, and if anyone has questions for us for next time as well, uh, just let us know.
• 49:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Send us a message on socials.
• 49:34
  We'll that,
• 49:34
  Madeleine Cleary: can we do a super quick, um, top tip each on the fly.
• 49:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 49:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Top
• 49:38
  Madeleine Cleary (2): tip, each.
• 49:39
  Madeleine Cleary (2): Madeleine, Natasha, well like, stop.
• 49:43
  Natasha Rai: Dumb.
• 49:46
  Natasha Rai: Top, top tip about anything like publishing related.
• 49:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, my top tip, um, actually comes from, from another author.
• 49:53
  Tina Strachan: I borrowed this when it does come to socials.
• 49:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, you don't, don't worry actually.
• 49:59
  Tina Strachan: Or put pressure on yourself to post all the time.
• 50:01
  Tina Strachan: You kinda don't have to, especially if you don't feel comfortable.
• 50:03
  Tina Strachan: Even Catherine Collette's got some really interesting, um, tips on this at the moment about try trying to make it your own, um, if, and if that feels more comfortable to you, but also, but just be there still and have a presence when it comes to, you know, maybe commenting on other people's.
• 50:19
  Tina Strachan: Uh, posts and showing support or sharing, and that's just as important because it's still, you still have a presence there.
• 50:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, so if you don't know what to post and you're a little bit stuck, just get in there with some likes and some shares and some comments.
• 50:30
  Tina Strachan: And that's, um, probably even more important because it's showing support for your writer community.
• 50:35
  Mm,
• 50:36
  Natasha Rai: I like that.
• 50:37
  Natasha Rai: Um, okay, I've got one.
• 50:39
  Natasha Rai: So I've, I'm directly stealing this from a panel I went to yesterday at Sydney Writers Festival, but I liked it so much that I'm like, right, I need to share this love.
• 50:46
  Natasha Rai: So, um, Michelle Brasier, who was on this panel said that she has an evidence log.
• 50:52
  Natasha Rai: What she does is every time she gets feedback from her friends, colleagues, peers.
• 50:58
  Natasha Rai: Even reviews that are positive, she literally writes them down in this book.
• 51:03
  Natasha Rai: I love that.
• 51:03
  Natasha Rai: And when she has the doubts and when she has the imposter syndrome, or she thinks she's writing something terrible, she looks at her evidence log that speaks otherwise
• 51:13
  Tina Strachan: love isn't.
• 51:14
  Tina Strachan: Isn't that great?
• 51:15
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 51:15
  Tina Strachan: You know, you could also put that on a poster or something on your computer or where you write.
• 51:19
  Tina Strachan: Yes, exactly.
• 51:20
  Natasha Rai: And you just look at it like,
• 51:22
  Tina Strachan: no, I'm good.
• 51:23
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm good.
• 51:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 51:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 51:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 51:26
  Madeleine Cleary: That is amazing.
• 51:26
  Madeleine Cleary: I love that so much.
• 51:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Me too.
• 51:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I don't really have it.
• 51:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I mean, other than following the heat with your writing at the moment, I think because I've been to so many beautiful book events recently and hosted by like amazing independent bookshops, go, go to support your indie bookshops.
• 51:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Buy books from them, be part of that community, engage with them attending these events, like it's it, they're so, so interesting.
• 51:53
  Madeleine Cleary: I think hearing from other writers like, look Natasha, you went yesterday, Sydney Writers Festival and got a great tip.
• 51:59
  Madeleine Cleary: So I think exactly you're emerging writer.
• 52:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Go and enjoy and be part of the community.
• 52:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Great.
• 52:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Top tips.
• 52:05
  Madeleine Cleary: This has been
• 52:05
  really fun.
• 52:07
  It has.
• 52:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 52:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Let's do it again soon.
• 52:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 52:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Thanks everyone.
• 52:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you.
• 52:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Bye.
• 52:18
  Tina Strachan (2): Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast.
• 52:21
  Tina Strachan (2): If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new S drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing.
• 52:29
  Tina Strachan (2): You can also find us on Instagram.