Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 5 Track 11 - What's Poppin? Women's NCAA Final Four Viewership Ratings are Poppin'!
Transcript
- DC: What's happening, Brand Nerds. How have you all been? It is good to be back with you on Brands, Beats and Bytes, and we are coming at you with another one of our What's Popping episodes. What's popping? And this one y'all is a timely one. This is a very timely what's popping and it is coming from someone, before I kick it over to, uh, LT and J to get us started, it's coming from someone, who is, uh, works for a client of ours, so just wanna disclose that. Full disclosure, client of ours. But this, this dude Al, also happens to be one of my best friends. He's a, he's a buddy. He's a buddy of mine, and we cannot wait to get into this Lt J. Let's get this thing popping. LT: So, okay, so what the, these What's Popping shows have been such great fun for the three of us, so we thought it would be even more fun as DC alluded to, to bring in some of our other peeps to it. And straight up, we are bringing in Garth Knutson, who is the current CMO of Aflac. Welcome Garth. Garth Knutson: Hey, LT. Good to finally meet you face to face even. Yeah. Even though it's through, through Zoom. I've, I've heard your voice so much, uh, watching these podcasts. The Brands, Beats, and Bytes podcasts from day one and, uh, hear so much about you from, from a man DC. LT: Awesome, Garth. Well, we're, we're so happy to have you here. So, you know, you know Garth could since you listened to our podcast, and we thank you for it. Mm-hmm. Uh, because we want to just get to this, what's poppin. We won't do our usual intros here, but we want the Brand Nerds to know that. Uh, and we hope, Garth, you're gonna be back for a, a full show, but we're gonna give the Twitter version of your, of your experience here, Garth. Is that cool? Garth Knutson: That's amazing. LT: Yeah, so before Aflac, Garth worked at Amazon Music and for great agencies including Publius, Wong Duty, and Wonderman. So, D, do you want to add anything to here before we get started? DC: I absolutely do, LT. All right. Brand Nerds. Um, I wanna take you on a, on a Twitter version of a journey. So for you Brand Nerds out there, that may be at a point in your career where you're thinking. If you're on the agency side, you might wanna go client side. If you're on the client side, you might wanna go agency side. But let's say you've gotten pretty senior on either one of those sides and you say to yourself, man, I really would like to have a different experience, but maybe I've been working so long on with an agency or so long with a client, it, it could be too late for me to make the move. Not true, not. So Garth, I affectionately call him G. He worked on the agency side for the preponderance of his career, and then he made a move to the client side, and Brand Nerds the client side that he ended up getting into first is vice president of brand, now as CMO, as Larry has, uh, has said it was Aflac. So he serviced Aflac with Publius and then went on now to become a CMO. So Brand Nerds don't give up if you want to expand your knowledge base. That's number one. Number two, you guys know I like threes, uh, Brand Nerds. Nu number two. There are some folks that you're gonna meet in your career who are really, really smart. Really smart. There are some people that you are going to meet that are really good people, but regrettably, they may not be so smart. Okay? You may not be so smart. And then there are people that you will meet that are both smart and good people. And although, although they are Uber smart, they are even better people. That is Garth. He is, he's a good dude. And then number three for you pet lovers out there. Brand Nerds, you all know we love pets. Garth Knutson: Are you gonna give a shout out to my dog's Instagram? DC: Well, we going to Scout. Okay, so, so Scout, wait, uh, Garth, G, lives in Seattle, and, um, he's got a dog Scout. I mean, Scout and, and Scout wears like a bandana. Scout. Scout does Scout things. Scout goes down to the, uh, to the, to the pier. What is that place called? Garth Knutson: Uh, Pike, Pike Place. Pike Place Market DC: Pike Place Market. And he hangs out where they do fish, they have fish mongers there and, and Scout hangs out and gets salmon and stuff. So, so he's got a cool, he's got a, a cool dog. Named Scout. Named Scout. So that's a little bit more about my man G. Garth Knutson: Thank you. And that, that means so much coming from you, DC, cuz like you said, we've become more than just friends over the past three years, uh, working together. Um, so I'm super excited to, to finally be on the, on the podcast with you. DC: Thank you, brother. Garth Knutson: And, and you know, one thing I'll add, you know, you mentioned the people can make that jump, you know, if, if they want to, it's possible later in your career. And I did it after 18, 19 years of being on the agency side. But it, that happened or it was able to happen I think about back to long duty where I started my career. Mm-hmm. As, as an unpaid intern. And if there's one thing that I learned in that the first three and a half years there, and I worked there twice, but, um, Pat Duty, uh, co-founder there with, with Tracy Wong, he always said to the account team, and he was the head of the account management as well as the, the founder and the president of the agency. He said, relationships are everything. DC: Yeah. Garth Knutson: And so I've taken, and there are other things that are important too. DC you've heard me say many times, the work is the most important thing. That's what, that's what the consumers see at the end of the day, right? But relationships are everything and their the foundation. I think that's why. A former client hired me to be on her team right point, because I was still still living that, you know, 15, 16, 17 years later. So I would just, it, it's basic, but it's, it's easy to forget the basics sometimes. LT: So true. DC: Let's shout out Shannon. Hmm. Shout out Shannon right now, because Shannon is the one. That brought, uh, Garth over and Shannon mm-hmm. Has been on our podcast. What's up Shannon? We love you and is currently the CMO over at the Jordan Brand. So just wanna make sure we give her, give her the shout outs. The, uh, the, the, the, the Queen? Yes. Shannon Watkins. LT: Yes. DC: Alright. Okay. All, so G Yep. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass the, the rock to you both figuratively and literally, but Brand Nerds, you know how this goes. One of us has a what's popping? It could be something that we, we, that, that we think is great going on in marketing. It could be something that's germinating, it could be something cra quite frankly that might hit one of our, one of our souls as a pet peeve. And then we just go at it after it's, uh, set up. So this time, this show is dedicated to the what's popping by G What's popping, Garth? Garth Knutson: What's popping is women's college basketball. Yeah. Um, every, are you two basketball fans? LT: Yes. Big Garth Knutson: Are you? DC: Absolutely. Huge basketball fan. Garth Knutson: So, I mean, then you, you know, basketball is about matchups, right? LT: Yep. Garth Knutson: Uh, Magic versus Bird. You know, I'm a DC mentioned I'm a Seattle kid, Gary Peyton versus John Stockton, you know, two, two scrappy guys. North Carolina versus Duke. And that one, North Carolina versus Duke, the, the men's March Madness last year had that, you know, that's the first time ever in the history of, of the NCAA tournament that Duke and North Carolina faced off. Hard to believe, right? Hard. LT: Yeah, I'm a UNC grad and 2022 was a wonderful year, and my Duke friends, whenever anything comes up, I just say 2022. Garth Knutson: Yep. Yep. And, and, and, and Great point, Larry. And, and you weren't the only one. It was great for the ratings. LT: Oh, I know. Garth Knutson: The, the ratings were through the roof because of that matchup. Right. You know. LT: No question. Garth Knutson: Duke, North Carolina, the Blue buds. Blue Bloods, but this year that title went to the women's tournament. I mean, you had mm-hmm. South Carolina versus 63 teams. Right. Undefeated South Carolina, led by Don Stanley versus whoever it was they were gonna play. And it was like that all year. Um, Hailey Van Lith, uh, uh, a local out here in Washington for Louisville versus O Iowa and the Elite Eight, um mm-hmm. South Carolina versus Caitlin Clark in the Final Four. Um mm-hmm. Angel Reese at LSU really versus the world, and she's amazing. She's ready to take, she's ready to take on the world. She's ready to take on the White House, you know? Yes. With some of the comments and things she's saying. And, and what gets me excited too is it was popping. But a lot of these players in these, these storylines that, that made it popping this year. These folks are gonna be back again next year. So Caitlin Clark will be back, um, at Iowa, Page Becker's at Yukon, uh, Cameron Brink at Stanford. Uh, Angel. Angel Reese, who I already mentioned, Haley Van Lith. So, I feel like this momentum is gonna continue in, in the, the Women's March Madness is gonna continue to keep popping. But you know, I also feel like it's important for us, um, in marketing to not only, um, support, you know, causes and initiatives and, and, you know, things happening in the world, uh, that are important for the betterment of the world, but, but also for us to make aware folks who maybe aren't aware of what's popping. So that's why I'm so happy to be on here. So What's Poppin? Women's college basketball. LT: That's awesome. And Garth, so tell, so you were there if I'm not mistaken, right? You were in the building in Dallas. Garth Knutson: I, I was in, I was in a few of the buildings, so luckily for me, uh, half of the Suite 16 games and half of the Elite eight games were here in Seattle. So, uh, I went to all of those games. So I watched six games in Seattle. Then I took off to, to Dallas to watch the rest of them. And, you know, so I got to see Caitlin Clark score, uh, 82 points, oh, um, you know, over, over two games. And the, the 40 point triple double, which no one has ever done in college basketball, you know, regardless, regardless of gender. That was amazing. So, a and also for me, you know, again, being the, the Seattle kid, um, you know, the last time I saw anybody, uh uh, Uh, a big basketball game in my hometown of Seattle's when Kevin Durant was here, most people don't remember Kevin Durant was, LT: and that's criminal, by the way. That's a whole other topic. Criminal. Garth Knutson: That is, that is a whole other topic. Hopefully that'll get remedied here, here, hopefully a couple years. Um, you know, that was amazing, you know, seeing, feeling that arena was packed again, you know, full of, full of Seattle basketball fans. So personally, that was a big moment for me. Um, you know, then going on to, uh, Dallas and, and the Final Four and, and seeing really Don Staley's face everywhere and a lot of the, you know, sort of plug here out of home advertising that Right that Aflac did in Dallas. You know, we had, uh, uh, Talent, uh, partnership with two great coaches, Coach K at Duke and Don Staley at, at South Carolina. We made the, the decision for the advertising that we did in Dallas. It was gonna be focused on Don Staley. Um, so, so that, that was great to see and and a number of people came up to me and said, thank you for doing this, and thank you for, for spotlighting her and, and placing an emphasis on women's basketball, which, which, um, you know, made me, you know, feel all kinds of, all kinds of good feelings and really validated, you know, my, my role here at Aflac and what, what we believe in. Um, another fun one. So it's Friday morning. Uh, it's the, the day of the Final Four, and the second game was the, the, probably the biggest game of the. Um, in regards to how it was being promoted, South Carolina versus Iowa. So, you know, Don Staley and Aaliyah Boston and, and that, you know, amazingly deep team versus Iowa and Caitlin Clark, who's getting all kinds of, of, of press. Mm-hmm. Um, and I get a call from Dion Sanders, uh, you probably heard of them, his manager and says, Dion wants to come to the game and, and support Don and support women's college basketball. Um, so that was fun, you know, to get, to sit there with one of the greatest, um, athletes, you know, in my opinion and in many's opinion in the history of, of, of American sports and maybe the world who was there, you know, experiencing this as well. So I think if you asked him last Friday, what's poppin? You know, he would've said, you know, This right here, you know, Women's March Madness, um, the Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi's uh, simulcast you, similar to you. You mm-hmm. Lots of people listening will be familiar with the, the Manning Brothers. Mm-hmm. And the, the night football simulcast that they do. Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi did an amazing job. There. Also was invited to, uh, a party with the, the Dallas Stars, which was uh, amazing to be at it. It felt like a who's who of women's basketball. Sheryl Swoopes is in the house. Sue. Sue and Diana were there. Um, Nancy Lieberman, who is Oh yeah. Um, one of the biggest names I've got a, a Dallas Diamonds shirt that I brought home, which is my new favorite t-shirt number 10 Lieberman on the back. That's awesome. Um, just, you know, the, you could just feel. Like the excitement, you know, going back, you know, to my, I haven't had a basketball experience like this since the nineties, and being in person at the Key Arena watching as Sean Kemp, Gary Payton, alley-oop. Right. You know, so, so it, it, for me, it's been a, an unexpected journey to. To find myself in this place where my favorite sport right now is, is, is women's basketball. You know, and I'm excited for the WNBA season. I'm excited for college basketball to come back and see, you know, Caitlin and Angel and Haley, and, you know, all these great players come back and for these great matchups to continue and for this, uh, success to, to move on. LT: So, Garth, this is awesome. Um, and I I, I'm gonna do a little bit of a shameless plug for us, cuz we did. We did a, What's popping a couple weeks ago when the tournament started, about the men's tournament, and so I have to flex a little bit on that because, and, and I'm gonna get back to your point, uh, trust me here, just gonna, mm-hmm. A quick, because I had to bring that up, but I just looked up the ratings. For, and again, this is right after both these tournaments just happened, right? Yep. Did you know that the women's ratings there were, and again, combined ABC and ESPN, to your point, the simulcast 9.9 million views million, right? Did you look up what the men's viewership was? Garth Knutson: I think it's about 14 or 15. LT: 9.5. Oh wow. What I'm looking at. So the women's ratings went up 103%. Mm-hmm. Wow. The men's ratings went down. I'm not sure what the percentage is. And the women's rating rated higher than the men's rate. Now, someone had told you that five years ago? No. Would've no way. No way. There's no way. I watched that game the other day. The basketball is so good. Garth Knutson: Yeah. DC: Yes. LT: People is so good. Garth Knutson: Exactly. Ask, ask Step Curry, who the best shooter is in college basketball and he's not gonna name a guy. LT: That's exactly. DC: That's, it's not a guy. LT: Yeah, that's right. The, I mean, no offense, San Diego State. God bless you, you made the tournament, but it was, it, I, I, I could barely watch that. You, you know, it was ugly watching the offensive side of the game on, uh mm-hmm. On, uh, San Diego State. So you're bringing up something in Aflac right there with it, because obviously you're, you're guys are on both sides. But it's so cool to watch the exponential growth of women's basketball and there's all these reasons for it, so I'm Shut up everybody. Garth Knutson: And to me, I think the, the biggest thing and, and you know, we've got a few sports guys on the phone. You know, we watch sports because we want to be entertained, right? And I think you, how do you know what is entertaining if you haven't watched it? And now with now with nine, 9.9 million people watching it, that's what gets me really excited. Again, I'm really glad to be a supporter of women's sports and that the, the whole Aflac executive team, you know, gets, gets behind this, this choice as well. LT: So, cool. You got, guys got behind this and I'm shut up. But I want to put this in context. In this world, the fragmentation, where ratings just continue to go down. Mm-hmm. For nine point, it went up 103%. If you keep ratings flat, you're happy. 103%. That's crazy. Garth Knutson: Yep. Uh, so just a while we're talking stats. I, I, I want to just name a few and then I'd like to hear what DC has to say that game, the nine point. DC: Thank you. Thank you G. Thank you. Garth Knutson: The nine. I know you've got three things to tell us. So that, that 9.9 million, that's also more than any Stanley Cup game since 1973. JS: Wow. Garth Knutson: So think about that. '73, that's before I was born. Um, that's more than the most recent MLB, NBA All-star games. I mean, think about how much, how big of a deal gets made of the NBA All-Star game and the MLB All Star game. More people watched, watched this game, uh, than the, did that. The last Orange Bowl, the last Sugar Bowl, you know, the 2021 NBA Finals. You know, so, so it it, we can't just say that, you know, the, this is all because the men's tournament didn't have those matchups that that makes, that makes the gap appear smaller. But really to me it's about that 9.9 million number and how does that rank in, in live sports viewing and it's just been phenomenal. DC. DC: Thank you very much, g I appreciate you. It has to be to rock my brother. So I do have three things. Uh, one is going to be about the stats. The second is going to be about one of the players, and the second is going to be about culture. Mm-hmm. So let's go stats first. You've already mentioned the 9.9 uh, million on a, these are average, it got up to above 12 million. At one point during the, uh, broadcast, you mentioned that, uh, this year's, uh, or last year's NBA Finals. So the finals now the finals mm-hmm. It averaged at 9.89. So it was a little less than this. And what you hadn't mentioned yet, Garth, uh, is the NFL, so Amazons NFL games. Mm-hmm. They had an average of 9.6. Wow. So the women's, um, uh, games averaged more than the NFL's Amazon games. Mm-hmm. Amazon games. So this, this is big stuff. So the numbers are what the numbers are. Second, I'm gonna go to the players. Players in basketball have a different kind of a power than players in other sports. And G you mentioned Angel Reese. Angel Reese who was a star player for the uh, LSU Tigers. Mm-hmm. Couple years ago folks were crowing having a cow over NIL. NIL, name, image, and likeness. So these college athletes are now making money. Alright. Angel Reese. As a result of all of this work that's happened with her during the tournament. 17 NIL deals. Mm-hmm. 17 1 7 more than any other player in the tournament, male or female. Last point is culture. There's a young lady, uh, who grew up in Savannah, played AAU ball against Jeff's daughter, um, Jeff's daughter. Um, this lady's name is, Uh, uh, Flau'Jae Johnson. Yep. She is a rapper and signed to Jay-Z's company, Rock Nation. Yeah. So it has the numbers, it has the players with NIL deals, and it's got culture. This is the moment in women's basketball and women's sport. So that's, that's me. Then I wanna do a shout out and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a don to my, my, uh, my boy, Jeff. Uh, Aflac has a cadre of great agencies working with it. So I want to shout out Spark. You mentioned the, uh, Outta Home. Uh, G I wanna shout out Melt. They did all of the activations. I wanna shout out CAA as they do, they, they do the talent and then shout out Dagger for the, uh, for the campaign, Jeff. JS: All right, I got it. Um, so you all have mentioned a lot of points. I gotta, I read this, um, after the Elite eight. And there were more people that watched the Iowa and Louisville game than any NBA game on ESPN this year. Garth Knutson: Mm-hmm. JS: I remember reading that saying, wow. But it, it led me to this, um, Malcolm Gladwell is one of our favorite authors. DC: Oh yeah. JS: Wrote a book called The Tipping Point. Yeah. It's a tipping point for women's basketball. Mm-hmm. And I think, from here on, we'll see the numbers start to gradually grow. Now the, the, you know, you've gotta have the performance there, and I think it'll be there because now you've got all the attention. Yeah. Um, but I, I, for the first time and looking forward to women's basketball, uh, this fall, very excited. DC: Yeah. All right. Uh, G uh, I am going to toss something out here and then, uh, take it back to you. Larry, you got anything else, brother? LT: No, go. Keep going. I wanna hear Garth. DC: All right. Yeah. All right, cool. All right. So, uh, Garth is leading a brand that is all about closing a gap and behind him Brand Nerds, you see a poster. G, can you move over a little bit? It is the Aflac Duck versus the Gap Goat. So this campaign has been in the marketplace for now, a year and a half or so. Garth? Yeah, maybe two. Yep. Okay. All right. So, uh, and so Aflac has for a long time, closed the gap in HBCUs. Mm-hmm. Versus PWIs, predominantly white institutions. Mm-hmm. And primetime was a critical part of that while he was at Jackson State University, which is why you see a J hat in G'S background. And even now, so just because primetime and we love Coach Prime, we love Coach Prime has left an HBCU does not mean he or Aflac are not still committed to closing the gap between HBCUs and other universities. The same thing is now happening with regard to closing the gap in women's basketball and sports NCAA and men's. This is something that Aflac and Garth are committed to. So what I wanna say is, um, is that a clarion call, this dude's a leader. If you're down with closing this gap between women's basketball and men's basketball, NCAA or you're interested in closing the gap between HBCUs and other universities? Get it Garth via LinkedIn and just say, I'm in, I'm in. You other CMOs out there. So with that, you, you got some closing and thoughts here G? Garth Knutson: Yeah, I mean, thank you. Really just a continuation of what? Of what you said. I think there's some some people and some organizations out there that, that, if you're interested in, in this, uh, to, to follow and to, to listen to, because there are, there are lots of leaders, uh, the, the CMO at Ally, I would check out what she's doing. Her name's Andrea. Oh, okay. If you just Google Ally and women's sports, you'll, you'll read about what they're doing. Um, The Women's Sports Club uh, is another thing. So anybody, wow. Anybody who is buying like myself or selling a publisher, uh, women's sports properties, you should be getting in touch with The Women's Sports Club. And then somebody who's doing a, a great journalism around, um, uh, sports advertising specifically, uh, women's basketball and women's college basketball. I'd check out, uh, Molly at Adweek. So again, just a, a Google search away. Google Molly at Adweek. Follow her on social, Women's Sports Club and check out, uh, Andrea Brimmer at at Ally and what, what they're doing over there. Fantastic. DC: Cool. Now, uh, and Garth Knutson: go to a w Go to a go to a WNBA game this summer. Check it out. DC: Yes. Go to WNBA game this summer. Now G, I wanna, I wanna, uh, tell the Brand Nerd something cuz they may not know this. And I, I'm sure you don't know this, this is a subject that is uber passionate to, uh, my business partner LT, he grew up playing basketball in New York City as a point guard. He was captain of his team. Captain of his team. He was at a renowned camp called A B C D Camp, which I think is Sonny Carol. Five Star. Five star. Five star, sorry. Five star. Five Star Camp. Uh, where, where, uh, where, uh, there was some, uh, coaches who you may, uh, know. One of them just moved from Iona to St. John's. Alright, so you, you, you, you might have heard of this dude. His name is Rick Patino. So these are the kind of coaches that we're at to get this young Rick Patino and then, Larry has a son, uh, who is we, we, we call him my nephew. His name is Jake. He played ball all the way up to, uh, to high school, and Larry has coached several times. So this is a super passionate subject for, uh, for LT. LT: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. So I can't help myself. And I just want to add one thing with the women's ball that, that to what DC said. You talk about players, you know, uh, also Garth did work with Turner, uh, years ago, uh, consulting for them for the, uh, NBA and TNT and one of the things we found with research is that it's about stars and star and, and player rivalries. Mm-hmm. And so women's ball has that right now. DC: Yes. Yes, yes. LT: You, you can't name, again, no offense, but you, it's very difficult to name the players right now on the men side, not on the women's. Garth Knutson: Yep. JS: Not on the women's side. Garth Knutson: Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, they're, they're, some of those biggest names are, are coming back next year. Aaliyah, Boston's going to the WNBA, but Caitlin Clark. Yeah. Paige Becker's, Cameron Brink, angel Reese, Hailey Van Lith. Like the, the matchups will be back and I think we're gonna, um, because of this re this interest, um, we'll find, you know, the next, the next Caitlin Clark and the next Angel Reese are out there as well, and so I'm excited to watch him. LT: Super cool. DC: Two, two more shout outs before we get outta here. Uh, the first is I want to shout out Don Staley and Coach K. Don Staley for being the leader. Uh, right now, w we are saying she is the leader, the face of. NCAA Women's Basketball. This is, no, this is no disrespect to Coach Mulkey, no disrespect whatsoever. Don Staley's the face right now, because as you said, up front G it was South Carolina versus the field. Yeah. Uh, they didn't, they didn't get it done. And congratulations to the Tigers and also, uh, to the Hawkeys. So, and also Coach K. Who was in this, uh, campaign right there, side by side with, uh, with Coach Staley. And then I also wanna shout out Ellen Lucy. Ellen. Lucy is a senior marketing person at the NCAA. Garth Knutson: NCAA. DC: She's a Coke alum. Yep. And so we, we've, we've, uh, we've talked with Ellen several times and so Ellen, we know you and the team over there are very excited about Women's basketball. We know y'all so excited about, uh, men's basketball, but we're just gonna tell you right now, we are super excited about women's basketball. Yep. So excited. Garth Knutson: And actually, while, while we're here, and this is unplanned, I want to give a shout out to, to DC and the Brand Positioning Doctors. Um, and thi this, this goes back. A little way. So when, when we Aflac, were working on, uh, the new iteration of our college football campaign. This must be about three years ago now. And we were, uh, hitting our heads against the wall a little bit to figure out who we were gonna bring into the mix, to, to work with Nick Saban. We, we wanted to two people and DC said Dion, Sanders, and immediate. It clicked for everybody and said, yes, that's the only person that it can be. But at that time, it, not a lot of people in America knew that d I mean, everybody knew Dion Sanders, but people didn't know he was going to coach at Jackson State. But DC knew, and, you know, for the success of our football campaign, really the, uh, the, the rest is all history now. But then fast forward to, I don't know, 9, 10, 11 months ago or so, when we were having the discussions around who. Who for basketball, like who are the talent that we should work with, who not only can bring that notoriety, you know, that you want from a celebrity in an advertising campaign, but also, uh, has a, a shared purpose with our organization, um, and is going to. And is gonna, has an impact on current culture. Right. And Coach K was at the top of that list right off the bat. He, he was the one that, you know it well, it's like when you talk about coaching, it's, and Foot College football, Nick Saban. Right? Like he's the one. Um, but so Coach K was a, was a bit of a no-brainer and you know, It's DC who came up with the idea for Don Staley. So I just wanted to shout that out. That, uh, Brand Positioning Doctors and, and particularly DC cuz he's the one we work with the most, um, is, um, invaluable, you know, to me as a, as a marketer and as a CMO. So, thanks DC. LT: I'm glad you pointed that out. Thank you Garth, for doing that for, for DC Thank you. He has a great way about that. Um, I have to give you the full circle thing though. Do you know that Dion's first national work, other than Nike was with the Powerade brand and that's when, uh, so I worked with Dion way back in the day personally, so, and he's not only, um, uh, a brilliant guy, but a brilliant marketer. He gets it. So Garth Knutson: he does, yes. LT: Right. So really cool. JS: One more, one more thing. DC and I attended Alabama a and m, which was in the Swac with Jackson State, um, right? Yes. We played against, uh, our schools played against each other. And you know, he, they won two, we won one, but we won the SWAC championship that year. So, um, put that out there. DC: Okay, now, now, now we're getting petty. Now we're getting petty. Alright, LT, take us out brother. LT: All right. Hey, brand nerds. Thanks for listening to the Brands, Beats and Bytes recorded virtually on zoom and a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM radio worldwide at kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, myself, Larry Taman, Joseph Anderson, Jade Tate, Hailey Cobbin, and Tom Dioro. DC: The Podfather. LT: And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.