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Rituals: When should we utilize them on our ghost hunts, and what makes "Seven: The Mystery of Jacques" different than "Dweller"? · Paranormal Lens - A Crossroads Of Curiosities, LLC Production

• 0:00
  Welcome back to this episode of Paranormal Lens.
• 0:02
  Today, we look at rituals. Rituals? Through a
• 0:10
  paranormal lens. Why? Welcome to our podcast,
• 0:20
  where we take deep dives looking at various topics
• 0:23
  through a paranormal lens. Okay, so... Oh, God,
• 0:29
  you said? Which one? Which God are you calling
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  out to now? The Santa God. Oh, Jesus Christ.
• 0:39
  No, we left that in 2025, Angela. I'm joking.
• 0:42
  This is a good follow -up to that one because
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  we ended that episode on do not summon Santa.
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  And we don't like the summoning of anything including
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  Santa. Let's just reestablish, because here's
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  the thing. I feel like us, that differentiates
• 1:01
  us from other... I never like calling us a paranormal
• 1:04
  team or whatever, but... But that's what we are.
• 1:08
  Sure, yeah, as a team, as a group. We have different
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  opinions on a lot of things, because I think
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  all of us are under the belief, and correct me
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  if I'm wrong, but most things in this field aren't
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  like a yes or no. answer like there's a lot of
• 1:26
  nuance to most things and that's why we talk
• 1:29
  for 40 minutes about cheese and owls right because
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  we find nuance in things so we should have these
• 1:36
  like touch bases at the start of each year or
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  so you know we don't need to do this every January
• 1:41
  but um maybe every November for the November
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  fans we should touch base on certain things and
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  see how our opinions evolve and change because
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  that's another thing about the paranormal is
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  our opinions And our perspectives on things are
• 1:56
  going to change over the course of this podcast.
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  Even a month from now. Even when this episode
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  airs. We might have different perspectives or
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  opinions that are like, I wish I said this instead.
• 2:07
  I don't agree with this anymore. Things are always
• 2:10
  changing. And that's a good thing. Because be
• 2:13
  wary of the people that are condescending narcissists.
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  And there's a lot of them in the field that try
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  to say, this is how it is. Or this is how it's
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  always been. Or this is how it will always be.
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  Because things are always changing. So we should
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  touch base on things. Today we're touching base
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  on the topic of witchwolves. You did it again.
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  Ah yes, witchwolves. I'm very experienced with
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  these sort of things. Are you? No. What kind
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  of demon was that? um that is in fact my dog
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  being a butt oh oh oh no let's just start with
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  the things i think we agree with on the topic
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  of rituals and we'll just kind of diverge after
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  like a couple things i think so yeah do we agree
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  that 99 .9 of the time when we're on an investigation
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  the investigations we do at least there is no
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  need for a ritual True. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Do we
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  also agree that 99 .9 % of the time, because
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  here's the thing is some people say all ghosts
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  are demons, right? Some people say there's no
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  such thing as human ghosts. I say I don't believe
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  in intelligent hauntings, but I believe even
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  if it's residual, we should still approach it
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  with the perspective. of we're talking to a human,
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  because even if we're engaging with memories,
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  it's still human memories, you know what I mean?
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  So we should talk to it as people. You know,
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  there's no place for a ritual. So do we agree
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  that most of the time we're engaging with human
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  hauntings? Or do we think it's all demons trying
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  to trick us? I think a good heavy proportion
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  is human to whether it is like a physical consciousness
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  of a human or an impression of someone who was
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  alive at one point i feel like very rarely we
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  come across like i don't only few times we've
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  come across something that is not we have questioned
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  yeah yeah and that's all i was trying to get
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  it's like even residual i would say is human
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  yeah you know just to keep it simple of human
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  versus not human yeah yeah um But still, I mean,
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  we've done hundreds of investigations literally
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  that are documented. You know, we had the web
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  series for many years. Literally, I think it
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  is one out of a hundred, you know, investigations
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  you would say is like, so that's like 99 % are
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  human. 1 % is not. Angela, what do you think?
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  And it's okay that you can have a completely
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  different opinion. That's a good thing. I think
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  most of the time, whatever we are communicating
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  with is human or people, whatever. But I mean,
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  you never, you never know. You're not like you
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  can see what you are talking to or trying to
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  find. So, I mean, there's no proof that whatever
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  we are talking to is human or was human. Exactly.
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  That is true. That is true. So I can't say 99
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  % of the time. Maybe 99 % of the time we think
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  it is human, but maybe it could be 50 -50. I
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  don't know. You'll never know. Well, okay, so
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  I'm going to ask this next question, but then
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  it's going to come back to respond to this, okay?
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  This is my last question. Would you agree or
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  disagree that in that one out of 100 times when
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  it's like something demonic or something very
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  ancient and elemental, right? And just inhuman.
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  Inhuman, sure. Do you agree or disagree that,
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  like, just going up to this inhuman entity and
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  be like, hi, my name is Ben, what's your name?
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  Like, the traditional, like, ghost hunting that
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  you use with, like, a human. Do you agree or
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  disagree that in those cases, using a different
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  framework of understanding or a different approach,
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  including but not limited to a ritual, in those
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  cases is necessary because the lens that you
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  use of, hi, my name is Ben, what's your name,
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  demon? is not probably going to get the same
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  results or at least not work in the same way
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  as you know i think because i think it's like
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  different frameworks of you know you're talking
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  to a ghost first this is a different territory
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  here you know like different tools needed for
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  a different job that's just my belief i'm curious
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  what do you guys think on that i i don't think
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  it's I tend to lean more towards disagreeing.
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  Like, I feel like if you do have some sort of
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  interaction with something that is inhuman and
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  you already have that established interaction,
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  like, I don't feel there's a need to change what
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  you're doing or, like, incorporate a ritual when
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  you already have that base communication. yeah
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  i was gonna say i don't think it really rituals
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  are ever really necessarily i don't think they're
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  needed yeah exactly i mean i i like doing rituals
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  because i think it can open more gateways to
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  understanding certain things especially if whatever
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  you are talking to is unhuman i want to know
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  more about it but also it also depends on if
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  that's your thing to do i mean not everyone wants
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  to do a ritual and then it also depends on if
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  that's a regular part of your practicing you
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  know i guess okay so yeah what do you first firstly
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  what i was getting why it was going to connect
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  is because i was going to ask you know instead
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  of 99 .9 of the time human It's another way to
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  phrase it 99 .9 % of the time, the traditional
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  interaction that we're used to, the paranormal
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  framework applies. But what do you guys define
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  as a ritual? Because technically, if you just
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  look it up, a ritual is just a ceremony consisting
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  of specific actions that have prescribed meaning,
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  right? Doesn't mean you're... summoning something
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  or conjuring something. Yeah, I was gonna say,
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  rituals aren't always for summoning. I mean,
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  someone could argue that using a spirit box,
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  to a sense, is a ritual. Or ghost hunting in
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  general is. Exactly. That's why I'm just asking
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  what the... Because I don't think I even have
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  a definition myself. So, like, what's the hesitation?
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  So, if there's ever an instance of, like, hey
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  guys, what we're dealing with here, I don't think
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  a simple... Paul, the spirit box is going to
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  get us the answers we need. Let's do a ritual.
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  What would be the ideal things that that consists
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  of, if anything? And what are the hard cutoffs
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  of that's no longer a ritual, that's something
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  we're not okay with? Well, it depends on each
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  person. That's why I'm asking each person. What
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  about you, Ben? What is, what is your, what are
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  your. So, so for me. Okay. So the best way, and
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  I know I mentioned this off air, but the best
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  way for me to like explain this is through a
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  actual case study we've done. Right. we we have
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  done a couple rituals we have well more than
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  a couple we've done a couple on camera before
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  um as part of major works that have you know
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  turned into films and screens so people know
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  a couple rituals and are very familiar with a
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  couple rituals we've done so those are some how
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  we do it yeah so one of them was uh for the film
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  dweller which did the film festival circuit last
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  year won best tv new media feature the midwest
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  weird fest in last march In that film, we did
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  a deep dive on the ancient occult topic of the
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  dweller or guardian on a threshold, which is
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  essentially just a metaphor, you know, telling
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  of this entity on the threshold between realms,
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  kind of like a, not kind of, literally a guardian
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  between this plane. and the next and it's kind
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  of a metaphor for the things that kind of stop
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  you and prevent you from moving forward the kind
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  of like a signpost of hey stop and reassess what's
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  going on and make some necessary changes or turn
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  away and don't proceed you know so it's kind
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  of like a occult framework an entity that's more
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  a metaphorical sort of look at what's going on
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  and reassess type of thing. That led to a series
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  of rituals that we were involved in that were
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  summoning this entity to a haunted location in
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  order to interact with it. It was no longer at
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  that point a framework to understand. what's
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  going on because that's the thing the dweller
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  and much of these frameworks are really just
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  there to understand what's happening around you
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  right kind of like tarot there's nothing inherently
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  evil about tarot you look at the symbols and
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  archetypes and utilize it to help understand
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  what's going on around you if you do a tarot
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  spread i view rituals much like i view like if
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  you were like hey let's do a tarot spread about
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  what's going on here right let's pull some cards
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  that's not bringing anything there that's not
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  summoning that's not conjuring it's using these
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  frameworks these ideas these symbols right if
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  you do a tarot spread and you look up oh this
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  card has this symbol on it this symbol on it
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  that means this this and this let's lean into
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  that and kind of shift our perspective on understanding
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  this because a lot of the time dealing with these
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  ancient things are going to respond in ancient
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  symbols and you know metaphors and stuff so if
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  you look at it as what's the bigger picture what
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  are these metaphors and if you lean into it further
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  and you want to set up when you do your spirit
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  box session you know let's say you pull the fool
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  card doing your tarot spread maybe use some matches
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  with the full tarot deck on it maybe light a
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  candle with the full tarot deck or on on the
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  candle itself they sell those and we have we
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  have some of like tarot cards on the candles
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  right maybe lean into some of the imagery that's
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  on the tarot card that you pull like that's that's
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  what i view is like a ritual of leaning into
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  these archetypes and leaning into symbols to
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  kind of use that as like a language to reach
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  out to what's already there yeah i think if if
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  that is something that's not a human spirit because
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  if you go up to your dead aunt jane or whatever
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  that's said to haunt your old family barn aunt
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  jane isn't gonna know Anything about. The fool's
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  journey. You know. I think. It's not just also.
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  Using things that represent. What you're trying
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  to do. It's also. The mindset that goes. Along
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  with it too. It's the mindset and the intention.
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  What you're trying to do. Because I don't think.
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  I don't think people. Understand. understand
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  mindset is a big thing there's it's not necessarily
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  also like a bunch of woo -woo shit either it's
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  very scientific like your thinking can um what's
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  the influence what happens afterwards you know
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  and that's why like you can't even even if you're
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  like everything needs a ritual you can't do a
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  ritual every day or every two every two investigations
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  but no i i really i genuinely don't think that
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  that would be effective because it needs to be
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  something special it needs to be you know it's
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  kind of like if you study like tarot or you know
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  these old frameworks and archetypes it's kind
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  of like a muscle you should keep working on you
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  know and whether or not that transcribes or transpires
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  into you know you do a ritual if this situation
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  calls for it or you do a tarot spread i don't
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  i don't think it really matters because i kind
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  of view them as the same and i also view a ritual
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  as a great narrative device to frame you know
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  it is a form of storytelling and it frames a
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  piece of work nicely where i am weary is there's
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  two things i don't like and we've done many rituals
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  and we've taken part in many rituals done by
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  many people this isn't talking about one or even
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  two or three or four people this is talking about
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  many people we've done good rituals most of them
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  are just meh okay cool you let your candles okay
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  yeah nothing much happens yeah and we've taken
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  part in some bad rituals the bad rituals are
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  always the ones where it's like the person leading
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  it didn't explain anything they didn't know what
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  There was no good planning. No good planning.
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  And this is not singling any one or two or three
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  people out. This is many people. Yeah. It's just
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  people in, you know, that's why I said it's kind
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  of like a muscle. With like ChachiBT, there's
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  so many like accounts that are like, this is
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  the, I'm going to call out to this God and I'm
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  going to summon this God here to help me with
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  this ritual. and they just got the info from
• 16:34
  chat gpt you pick up any two occult books or
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  witchy books we've done this and a lot of the
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  opinions on if things are good or bad are actually
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  quite nuanced so if someone says i'm going to
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  call out to this thing i'm going to summon this
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  thing call it a god call it an entity if they
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  summon something there to aid in their ritual
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  i would like to know why and where they got the
• 16:59
  information from explain processes yeah explain
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  why do these entities represent yes and also
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  and also understand not only why are you using
• 17:12
  it why wouldn't someone want to use it because
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  there's a dual perspective for most things when
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  you're dealing with calling on these entities
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  and these deities so i don't like in general
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  summoning anything or calling out to anything
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  or bringing anything that's not already there
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  to the location so when the dweller on a threshold
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  for example stopped being a concept and started
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  to be an entity that we're summoning and conjuring
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  that's the hard line for me and it's like do
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  we want to do this i and it's getting mixed up
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  in all these other deities and other beings i
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  don't i don't like that so are you saying like
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  you don't want to want to do that if it's involving
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  other things because when you did the dweller
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  one that was specifically for the dweller well
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  here's here's the thing you know the dweller
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  and the threshold is a that wasn't my ritual
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  yeah so it wasn't ours it was someone else yeah
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  um i didn't know what half of what was being
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  said in that ritual until after um and that ritual
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  was also censored for the film as well um which
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  we don't censor stuff um where at least we don't
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  like to um i the dweller to me what might have
• 18:32
  gone wrong in the film and i admit this it stopped
• 18:37
  being a question of why are we experiencing the
• 18:40
  dweller on threshold and it started to become
• 18:42
  what is it and in order to answer what is this
• 18:46
  thing that is an entity on the threshold in order
• 18:52
  to answer that you need to summon it so if you
• 18:54
  go to a random haunted location the dweller i
• 18:56
  don't think is going to be there so you have
• 18:59
  to summon it there and i don't agree with summoning
• 19:01
  things or conjuring things i think that's a bad
• 19:04
  idea i don't we even heard here i don't don't
• 19:08
  summon santa claus don't summon hat man don't
• 19:11
  summon any of this stuff now if hat man go take
• 19:15
  it let's take it a hat man would you ever summon
• 19:17
  hat man i would advised against it but if hat
• 19:20
  man walked in the room would you talk to hat
• 19:22
  man you do you understand how there's a difference
• 19:25
  there okay so i would talk to him okay so if
• 19:30
  example okay so what happens where goes hunting
• 19:34
  hat man walks in would you be willing to do a
• 19:37
  ritual to enhance the experience with hat man
• 19:41
  and to understand it better no because here's
• 19:45
  why two reasons one i I fully believe that a
• 19:49
  ritual needs to be prepared and you need to know
• 19:51
  every single thing you're doing and why. So I,
• 19:54
  yes. Oh my God. I was thinking about that earlier.
• 19:58
  Yes. You can't do a spontaneous ritual. If you
• 20:01
  do a spontaneous ritual, you're setting yourself
• 20:02
  up for failure because also the intention needs
• 20:05
  to be there too. So yeah, you'd make mistakes.
• 20:07
  So no, I wouldn't. Also, I don't know that hat
• 20:10
  man is or isn't. I mean, we did a whole episode
• 20:11
  on this. So everyone go listen to episode 22.
• 20:15
  We talk about this. I don't know. the hat man
• 20:17
  what he is so i don't know what kind of frameworks
• 20:20
  to use to try to grapple to understand him but
• 20:23
  if hat man walks in the room i will go up to
• 20:26
  him using whatever i have if it's a spirit box
• 20:29
  or you know an emf meter i will obviously try
• 20:33
  to talk to hat man if he walks in the room i'm
• 20:36
  not gonna summon him or do a ritual on his spot
• 20:39
  no i think that that's just ill -advised to do
• 20:45
  that Like in any circumstance, like whether it's
• 20:50
  the hat man or anything. Go ahead. No, I'm just
• 20:54
  saying, I'm just like, I understand what you're
• 20:58
  getting at, but I'm also at like a dilemma about
• 21:00
  that because it, it's like, I don't see what's
• 21:07
  wrong with trying to summon certain entities.
• 21:10
  I just don't, I don't see what's wrong with it.
• 21:12
  I mean, if you want. to try to figure out what
• 21:16
  something is because it's been like popping up
• 21:19
  in your life lately or whatever i don't see what's
• 21:22
  wrong with trying to summon it doing a ritual
• 21:24
  to summon the thing to talk to it for it is for
• 21:28
  you know and that's valid but i i think there's
• 21:31
  that's with the dweller specifically which is
• 21:35
  what we're talking about here in this example
• 21:37
  the dweller on the threshold is a metaphor historically
• 21:40
  for something telling you to stop and reassess
• 21:45
  it's a roadblock an obstacle that prevents you
• 21:48
  from moving forward yeah and if i understood
• 21:52
  it correctly too from when when this whole dweller
• 21:55
  stuff was happening too it wasn't it doesn't
• 21:58
  necessarily it might not even necessarily be
• 22:00
  a entity it's no i mean that's the thing it's
• 22:04
  it's yeah it's it's one of those things it's
• 22:08
  like is it an entity is it just a metaphor is
• 22:11
  it A bunch of entities, no one knows. But what
• 22:15
  wasn't in the film, I mean, kind of touched on
• 22:20
  in Possession Tape, but I think we talked about
• 22:24
  mostly on this podcast. The film Dweller only
• 22:28
  was one experience with the Dweller and the Threshold.
• 22:32
  We, specifically I, experienced the Dweller three
• 22:35
  times. So think about that. There's a thing.
• 22:39
  None were very pleasant. This experience is supposed
• 22:44
  to represent the thing that is preventing you
• 22:51
  from moving forward, the thing that is stopping
• 22:53
  you. It is an obstacle to overcome. Something
• 22:57
  to overcome. Be it an entity, be it just all
• 23:00
  these synchronicities and just life telling you,
• 23:02
  like, hey, stop, you're going down a bad path.
• 23:05
  Whatever. I don't care what it is. What is gonna...
• 23:09
  overcome this obstacle understanding what the
• 23:12
  dweller is or understanding why it's happening
• 23:16
  we did this film we summoned the dweller hey
• 23:22
  what are you experience it again hey what are
• 23:25
  you experience it again hey let's reframe this
• 23:28
  and ask why are these things happening and fix
• 23:31
  the things that are happening and then guess
• 23:33
  what no problem since You see what I'm getting
• 23:37
  at? I don't think things need to be summoned
• 23:39
  and brought somewhere to understand. Because
• 23:43
  sometimes you need to understand why and not
• 23:46
  what. I don't care what the Dweller is. I care
• 23:50
  why is it happening. And you know what? Ever
• 23:53
  since, nothing's happened. And also, we use the
• 23:57
  Dweller as... kind of a we all understand kind
• 24:01
  of like what it represents and stuff and we use
• 24:03
  it as like a framework to like explain shit like
• 24:05
  we were talking about owls and we're like oh
• 24:07
  this gives dweller vibes that's all we have to
• 24:09
  say and we understand you know what i'm saying
• 24:11
  like it's a framework to understand shit doesn't
• 24:13
  need to be this entity you summon so if we want
• 24:16
  to incorporate stuff that is reminiscent of this
• 24:19
  topic if we're ever experiencing a dweller type
• 24:23
  of thing again we know the frameworks and the
• 24:26
  archetypes to use If we want to kind of navigate
• 24:29
  the situation. I don't think there's. I mean
• 24:32
  I don't care Angela. If you ever are like hey
• 24:34
  I want to summon. You're entitled to want to.
• 24:37
  I just don't think it's ever necessary. True.
• 24:40
  It's not necessary. I would say it's never ever
• 24:43
  necessary. But like. Curious type of thing. You
• 24:48
  know. Like okay. So for example. One of our new
• 24:54
  films that are out. Is. about jocks and we did
• 25:00
  a ritual and it was specifically to call out
• 25:04
  to jocks or whatever the entity of that's inside
• 25:11
  of jocks is what's the difference of that compared
• 25:15
  to what you're saying that you don't want to
• 25:17
  do i think what he's saying is the difference
• 25:20
  is like jocks is already there it's an entity
• 25:23
  that possesses that box like you're not you're
• 25:28
  not summoning it like to a location like you
• 25:32
  already have that you already have that object
• 25:35
  that we already okay like we already have it
• 25:38
  i was just well yeah yeah that's the difference
• 25:42
  going back to what i said initially of if 99
• 25:46
  .999 percent of the time and we have for the
• 25:49
  listeners who are unaware we have a collection
• 25:51
  of haunted objects all but one It's like a human
• 25:56
  entity. One is something that's literally told
• 26:00
  us it's not human. It's never lived on this earth.
• 26:03
  It's something ancient and something we don't
• 26:05
  understand. And we have this. It's in our house.
• 26:09
  So in that case, that is different than this
• 26:12
  occult random... Open a book and pick a random
• 26:16
  occult topic and summon that to your apartment.
• 26:20
  That's different. It's already there. What I
• 26:23
  was getting at is that... well for my understanding
• 26:26
  with jocks is that there's jocks there is jocks
• 26:30
  and jocks is and then there's 27 which is the
• 26:36
  entity or the entities that are inside of jocks
• 26:41
  that jocks is guarding from keeping like that's
• 26:45
  guarding them from escaping in this film we did
• 26:50
  this ritual to just the whole point of this ritual
• 26:53
  was just enhanced communication right it was
• 26:56
  just literally weeks of prepping and using archetypes
• 26:59
  and setting intention to do this little ritual
• 27:03
  to communicate you know we called it elevated
• 27:05
  communication and in this session it said there
• 27:09
  was jocks the entity and then there were 27 others
• 27:11
  inside of him that he was kind of like preventing
• 27:13
  from talking to us escaping is a good word but
• 27:17
  but the thing is is that jocks is in our house
• 27:23
  i don't think i think 27 is necessarily in this
• 27:29
  house no i think 27 is jocks is a gateway for
• 27:34
  27 to come out he's a conduit not necessarily
• 27:37
  yeah it's not necessarily always here so when
• 27:41
  we did that ritual and we were calling out specifically
• 27:44
  to what is in jocks 27 that isn't necessarily
• 27:50
  always there i feel like we were still conjuring
• 27:54
  that from coming like i i would disagree because
• 27:57
  um whether or not like those 27 are there all
• 28:01
  the time jocks is the conduit for it you're not
• 28:06
  going to a random place and doing a ritual to
• 28:09
  summon these 27 you are using the conduit that
• 28:14
  has like is represented or has that continual
• 28:18
  contact with that like it is it is different
• 28:22
  it's like it's like going to a location that
• 28:27
  has a known like haunting and you're summoning
• 28:32
  it there like whether that haunting is seen all
• 28:35
  the time at that location because it probably
• 28:38
  isn't like if you go to that location and try
• 28:43
  to summon it or do a ritual That's different
• 28:46
  from like, oh, I'm going to try to summon this
• 28:48
  thing from this location in my house and try
• 28:52
  to interact with it. I mean, yeah, to this point,
• 28:55
  it's a difference of like, if we go to Stimson
• 28:57
  Hospital and we use this all the time as an example,
• 28:58
  because we go there often, the main ghost there
• 29:00
  is Frank Blanchard, okay? So if we go to Stimson
• 29:02
  Hospital and we're downstairs and we say, hey,
• 29:05
  Frank, if you're here, can you come down to the
• 29:07
  basement? That's, I mean, that's not summoning,
• 29:10
  but that's calling him to come to a room. If
• 29:13
  we're at... Madison Seminary would say, and we'd
• 29:17
  say, let's summon Frank Blanchard. That's different.
• 29:20
  Yeah, that would just wouldn't make sense. So
• 29:22
  if you think about it in that sense, Jacques
• 29:25
  is a haunted location. That's a good way to think
• 29:31
  about it. If you think of Jacques as more of
• 29:33
  a haunted location than a haunted object, it
• 29:37
  makes sense to try to communicate with the 27
• 29:41
  or the 7. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So that
• 29:46
  might be how I have to think about jocks from
• 29:48
  now on. Jocks is a haunted location and not an
• 29:51
  object. He is a house to a bunch of different
• 29:54
  entities right now. What we got out of this ritual
• 29:57
  and like other communications is that jocks identifies
• 30:00
  as a number seven and the entity or entities
• 30:03
  that I guess are inside jocks. kind of doesn't
• 30:08
  let out, are 27. So if his name is Jax, but he
• 30:13
  identifies as Seven, is Seven his address? If
• 30:18
  he's a haunted location? No, but no, is that
• 30:21
  why ghosts aren't always present? Is it because
• 30:24
  they have different addresses? Think about different
• 30:27
  panes of existence or dimensions. Is that the
• 30:30
  address? Is that the cheese layer? Well, I don't
• 30:35
  think Seven is... the ghost address isn't isn't
• 30:39
  seven what we realized because there's like different
• 30:41
  levels to entities and jocks is at a level seven
• 30:44
  wait wait this is going back to the cheese layers
• 30:46
  though because remember instead of cheese there's
• 30:50
  brianna likes or prefers the apartments buildings
• 30:53
  and if there's different levels to spirits and
• 30:57
  the hierarchies different levels of a building
• 30:59
  different dimensions different planes that is
• 31:02
  his address seven Okay, that makes sense. I don't
• 31:09
  know how to feel about that. It is interesting,
• 31:11
  but it's a little bit of a tangent. No, very
• 31:16
  much so. But did any of what I was rambling about
• 31:19
  make sense? Yes, it does make sense. Okay, and
• 31:22
  so, Angela, before we get to Brie, Angela, is
• 31:27
  there anything you wanted to clarify on what
• 31:30
  you agree with, disagree with? Want to add? Want
• 31:35
  to clarify? No, I mean... What are your limits?
• 31:39
  Yeah, what are your limits? I mean, I don't know
• 31:43
  if I necessarily really have too many limits,
• 31:48
  but I guess my limit is... I know your limit,
• 31:56
  Ben, is to not just summon random things. Savings
• 32:01
  or whatever. And to know what you're talking
• 32:03
  about. you know what you're talking about i mean
• 32:05
  i don't really see that as my limit because i'm
• 32:07
  willing to do that only if it's appropriate but
• 32:12
  it is very important that it is planned uh when
• 32:17
  we did the like i don't i don't think i would
• 32:21
  ever do a ritual that is just planned on a whim
• 32:23
  you do it right there on it like like hey let's
• 32:30
  do a ritual Yeah, like, no, no. Sorry, I can't
• 32:34
  talk good. But when we did the jocks ritual,
• 32:39
  I was planning this for, like, a week straight.
• 32:42
  I was getting my, like, I would work on this
• 32:45
  often, like, throughout the week. I'd put myself
• 32:48
  in the mindset of jocks, if that makes sense.
• 32:55
  I think doing a ritual, it's really important
• 32:58
  to have your... put yourself in the mindset beforehand
• 33:02
  still and not the moment of some people would
• 33:07
  argue that prepping for a ritual and putting
• 33:10
  yourself in the shoes of who you're trying to
• 33:13
  talk to and that hyper you know that that form
• 33:16
  of hyper elevated intention setting that your
• 33:20
  ritual is already done that's the ritual just
• 33:22
  getting in that mindset that's essentially just
• 33:24
  really strong meditation and and setting of intention
• 33:28
  and everything you do after that is just kind
• 33:30
  of theater i see it as like a build -up to the
• 33:33
  actual thing yeah but it's necessary to do that
• 33:36
  and also it's necessary what do you agree ang
• 33:40
  that everything you say or do and everything
• 33:44
  you use in the ritual you need to be able to
• 33:49
  explain in many words and sentences, why you're
• 33:54
  saying that and why you're doing that? Or do
• 33:56
  you think if you're ever at a ritual or taking
• 34:00
  part in a ritual and you say, hey, why did you
• 34:01
  say that? What does it mean? And they say, oh,
• 34:03
  I don't know. Yeah, I think that's important
• 34:07
  because like I said, mindset is very important.
• 34:12
  And when it comes to mindsets, you have representations,
• 34:16
  things that represent what's... you're trying
• 34:19
  to do you know that's part of my a mindset and
• 34:22
  so like when we did the jocks ritual throughout
• 34:28
  the week i was just like adding notes of different
• 34:30
  things that we could do for it and whatever and
• 34:33
  it turned out to be like three pages long full
• 34:36
  of different notes and stuff all that related
• 34:40
  to jocks of and what we wanted to do and nothing
• 34:44
  else there was absolutely nothing else in there
• 34:46
  to be like oh this would be really cool to do
• 34:47
  but there was no point in adding it you know
• 34:50
  what i mean and the script for the film i mean
• 34:54
  there's the film is only 27 minutes long coincidence
• 34:58
  um but there's a version that could be like an
• 35:01
  hour just because the original script over explained
• 35:05
  every single thing that was being said because
• 35:08
  nothing was cut out of this like that's another
• 35:11
  thing too with the rituals uh i'm wary of people
• 35:14
  that are hesitant to put something out because
• 35:17
  there's two reasons i found doing many rituals
• 35:21
  like i've said there are two reasons people tend
• 35:24
  to cite as to why they don't want their ritual
• 35:26
  kind of filmed at all or even put in a project
• 35:30
  one they're worried that it might like summon
• 35:32
  something into people's house watching it which
• 35:34
  is really strange to me and the other thing is
• 35:36
  people are Like, I don't even, I don't want people
• 35:40
  to judge. I don't want people, I don't, I'm not
• 35:42
  confident that I did it right. You're not confident.
• 35:45
  You're confident doing it. And then when you
• 35:49
  go to put it on a screen, then you're like, I
• 35:51
  shouldn't have done that. What? It's not that.
• 35:54
  Okay. So it's not, I don't think. Put everything
• 35:56
  out there. Be vulnerable. It's right. It's right
• 36:00
  to the person who's doing it. But there could
• 36:02
  be a person who's watching it, who's a very strict
• 36:05
  person with how they do their rituals and have
• 36:08
  a yes and no list of what you can and cannot
• 36:10
  do. And he saw this one little thing that we
• 36:13
  did and being like, oh, you fucked up bad now.
• 36:16
  That's not a true fucking ritual. I don't care.
• 36:21
  I don't care. Anyone can watch what we do and
• 36:25
  say, I would have done that differently. And
• 36:27
  they're 100 % valid. 100%. But what I don't want
• 36:32
  anyone to be able to say is they didn't know
• 36:35
  why they were doing that or they didn't know
• 36:37
  what they were doing. I think that's a very important
• 36:38
  distinction. You can disagree. I want people
• 36:42
  to disagree. I also want to put things out there
• 36:45
  and be vulnerable and put it out as it happens.
• 36:49
  And also show we're not hiding stuff. We're not
• 36:51
  summoning anything. All this ritual, and I say
• 36:54
  ritual in quotes, for jocks was just, like I
• 36:56
  said, elevated communication, elevated intent,
• 36:59
  and elevated just setting of mindset, call it
• 37:06
  meditation, whatever. And I think it just resulted
• 37:09
  in a really good channeling session, which I'm
• 37:13
  okay to do. with people i trust yeah in environments
• 37:17
  i trust um and what we filmed with jocks that's
• 37:21
  like the ultimate ritual to me i would hesitate
• 37:24
  to do anything more extreme than that um and
• 37:28
  i would do something like that again if and when
• 37:33
  the situation calls for it yeah it's appropriate
• 37:36
  i don't because like i said i think i think i
• 37:40
  think like i said this is a um here's here's
• 37:45
  a good example like i'm like i'm all i'd be all
• 37:49
  for like trying like doing a ritual to summon
• 37:51
  certain things like i would love to do a ritual
• 37:55
  that would summon santa claus or the hat man
• 37:58
  but i would never do that because there's no
• 38:02
  point to doing it yeah you know and also here's
• 38:07
  another thing too and i think we're gonna let
• 38:09
  brie talk in a second i think brie is going to
• 38:11
  want to say something to this effect and now
• 38:13
  i'll just reiterate this too um not we've said
• 38:19
  it a million times i'm going to say it a million
• 38:21
  more not everything needs a ritual and i know
• 38:24
  that things are skewed when we do all these investigations
• 38:27
  behind the scenes and we only film a few it can
• 38:30
  seem skewed when you have like two or three back
• 38:32
  to back that are ritual heavy and then One, it's
• 38:37
  not. I'm cognizant of that. I think that with
• 38:42
  the rebrand to Crossroads of Curiosities, I think
• 38:44
  I really want to do a lot more variety of the
• 38:47
  topics we tackle and what we flesh into films
• 38:50
  and kind of hit it all, even fiction stuff, you
• 38:54
  know, if the time comes. So I think there's a
• 38:57
  place for everything. I do think, like I said,
• 39:01
  that this is like a muscle that you need to...
• 39:05
  work out and if that's doing a tarot spread do
• 39:08
  a tarot spread if you do a ritual you do a ritual
• 39:09
  i think there's a place where if it i'm i'm not
• 39:15
  i don't ever want to see what i'm saying is i
• 39:17
  don't ever want to seek out and be like hey guys
• 39:19
  it's been two films and we haven't done a ritual
• 39:22
  let's let's create a situation where we need
• 39:24
  to do one i i don't think i don't think you find
• 39:28
  rituals i think the situations where you need
• 39:30
  one will find you and it's one in a hundred it's
• 39:34
  one in a hundred and if it ever seems like alan
• 39:40
  to anyone listening like oh they say one in a
• 39:42
  hundred but they do rituals all the time that's
• 39:45
  just because those tend to be the stories those
• 39:48
  tend to be um the ones that we turn into films
• 39:51
  that you know are good stories are powerful stories
• 39:54
  that you know it's a good framework to tell a
• 39:57
  story but well i mean i think people Like we
• 40:04
  said during this episode, not all rituals are
• 40:09
  for summoning things. Sometimes some rituals
• 40:13
  are for, what's the word? Good luck or something
• 40:19
  like that. You know what I mean? Like good luck
• 40:21
  in your life. And people might do a small little
• 40:24
  ritual during the start of a day or something.
• 40:29
  That's why they call them daily rituals. Yeah,
• 40:32
  yeah. So, I mean, would you say something like
• 40:36
  that is, like, you shouldn't do during all the,
• 40:40
  like, God, my God, why can't I talk? Would you
• 40:43
  say, Ben, that is something that people shouldn't
• 40:45
  do all day? Like, not all day, but, like, every
• 40:48
  day? That's, I'm not anti -ritual at all. Well,
• 40:54
  you're saying, like, it's good. Yeah, you're
• 40:58
  not summoning shit. You don't wake up and summon.
• 41:01
  Hat man. I know, but you were saying you should
• 41:06
  only do a ritual when the time comes, and that's
• 41:09
  like one in a hundred. I feel like your daily
• 41:12
  rituals are different from... We're talking about
• 41:16
  engaging, using a ritual to engage with the spirit.
• 41:21
  Yeah. You're talking about specifically that
• 41:24
  type. I always thought you were talking about
• 41:26
  rituals as a whole. When you're on a paranormal
• 41:29
  investigation, When, if ever, should you swap
• 41:32
  out the spirit box for a ritual? That's what
• 41:35
  I'm saying. Spirit box and ritual together. Sure.
• 41:41
  Even better in some situations. But I don't think
• 41:44
  any of your daily rituals probably entail summoning
• 41:49
  things or talking with entities. You never know.
• 41:53
  There might be a person there. care i don't i
• 41:57
  don't have daily rituals i don't care if someone
• 42:00
  does i mean you could consider brushing your
• 42:03
  teeth every morning a daily ritual sure that's
• 42:06
  not what i meant though that's a good segue brie
• 42:10
  when does brushing your teeth as a daily ritual
• 42:13
  turn into i mean what are your limits and i am
• 42:17
  also curious what did anything i say make sense
• 42:20
  what do you agree with disagree with yeah i'm
• 42:23
  done talking i feel like yeah i've definitely
• 42:25
  been a lot more quiet compared to you guys so
• 42:28
  far yeah we need to hear your opinion yeah because
• 42:30
  i mean i do i do have a lot of different opinions
• 42:33
  um but i also agree in a lot of places too like
• 42:38
  i do think i i of course i don't think a ritual
• 42:43
  is ever really needed i'll just leave it at that
• 42:48
  i you know i've grown up very religious um i
• 42:54
  was raised catholic and a lot of the stuff that
• 42:58
  we do is considered like a sin do i see it that
• 43:06
  way not really but like communicating with the
• 43:10
  dead using tarot cards all of that is seen as
• 43:14
  not stuff you should do um but i i do have harder
• 43:20
  limits than you guys. Like, I don't, I won't
• 43:23
  use a Ouija board, and that in itself is a kind
• 43:26
  of ritual. Um, I don't think, like, yes, you
• 43:32
  could consider spirit box a sort of ritual, but
• 43:35
  is it really? Maybe. I don't consider it, like,
• 43:40
  that's something I'll do without a thought, but
• 43:43
  anything where I'm purposely, like, we're purposely
• 43:47
  trying to, um, use means outside of the norm
• 43:53
  to communicate and open doors to something that
• 43:57
  we don't fully understand is a hard pass for
• 44:02
  me like and and i'm not gonna say you guys shouldn't
• 44:06
  do it like and but i'm definitely not gonna encourage
• 44:10
  it but i'm not gonna tell you guys to not do
• 44:13
  it like when angela was prepping for jocks and
• 44:16
  everything i'm like yeah send me your notes i
• 44:19
  want to see what you're doing But also, that's
• 44:22
  because I want to know you guys are being safe,
• 44:24
  too. Making sure we're being responsible. Responsible,
• 44:27
  yeah. I feel like I'm a mom sometimes. You're
• 44:32
  the HR manager. This is our employee checkup.
• 44:35
  I don't want to be filling out any OSHA forms,
• 44:37
  guys. Brianna's the type of person who would
• 44:41
  take us aside and be a little slap on the cheek
• 44:44
  being like, you're aware of what you're doing.
• 44:47
  I do have a question for you, Bri. Because I
• 44:50
  think I very much agree that not every mystery
• 44:54
  needs to be solved. Yeah, I believe not every
• 44:57
  mystery needs to be solved. It bugs me so bad,
• 45:00
  but yeah, not everything needs to be solved.
• 45:02
  I want to know, because you did say you're against
• 45:06
  opening doors to communicate with things we don't
• 45:11
  understand, which does that apply to... Because
• 45:18
  I'm extrapolating that the blanket you know,
• 45:21
  phrase of, I'm Bree, I'm against talking to inhuman
• 45:27
  entities or engaging with inhuman entities. Is
• 45:31
  that just an accurate way to put it? To an extent.
• 45:35
  Yeah, to an extent. Like, I'm not gonna, if we
• 45:39
  go to a haunted location and there is an entity
• 45:43
  that is inhuman that we start communicating with
• 45:46
  it. Am I necessarily going to stop in the moment?
• 45:49
  I don't think so, because if we're being responsible
• 45:53
  and we're not taking that further step of, oh,
• 45:58
  I'm going to start lighting some candles or doing
• 46:01
  a ritual, I don't think there's a need to hard
• 46:04
  stop. If things start happening and things start
• 46:07
  presenting more negatively and things seem like
• 46:13
  they're taking a turn for... something we shouldn't
• 46:16
  be doing i'm gonna be like hard hard no like
• 46:18
  we're gonna move on um and take a minute to refocus
• 46:23
  and possibly like decide if we want to continue
• 46:26
  or leave like um i mean we haven't had any circumstances
• 46:32
  like that that i can think of but um i don't
• 46:37
  think when it comes to that sort of situation
• 46:41
  i'm gonna be like oh inhuman entity bye i'm not
• 46:47
  gonna talk to you you know it makes a lot of
• 46:49
  sense actually what you're saying of you're anything
• 46:52
  that's you choosing to engage unless you're 100
• 46:58
  sure who you're talking to or what you're talking
• 47:00
  to anything that's you like choosing to initiate
• 47:04
  conversation that is very much different than
• 47:07
  you walking through a haunted location because
• 47:10
  like a lot of what you're doing when investigating
• 47:13
  You're just walking around observing being in
• 47:16
  these liminal spaces where things are more likely
• 47:19
  to happen. Yeah. Walking through and having this
• 47:23
  stuff happen around you is different. Even if
• 47:27
  you know there's a risk of the same stuff attaching
• 47:29
  to you or, you know, if it is a human, it can
• 47:32
  attack you. But at least you didn't say hi. Invite
• 47:35
  it in. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you guys
• 47:38
  have like ever really noticed. on investigations
• 47:42
  but like one thing that i actually try to not
• 47:46
  do is like this is this is kind of different
• 47:50
  but like i try to not really introduce myself
• 47:52
  no you don't ever since that one time i don't
• 47:56
  i don't introduce myself because that is giving
• 47:58
  if first if for some reason what we're talking
• 48:02
  to happens to be something inhuman i don't want
• 48:05
  them to know my name that's fair and And I think
• 48:10
  doing that in itself, introducing yourself is
• 48:14
  kind of opening a door. And also, it was a really,
• 48:20
  I didn't even notice this until what I alluded
• 48:22
  to years ago, we were doing an investigation.
• 48:24
  And it just remember, it was at Riverbend. And
• 48:27
  it just said, Hi, Brenna. We didn't even say
• 48:29
  anything. Just said, Hi, Brenna, Brenna, Brenna.
• 48:32
  And you said, I didn't introduce myself. I'm
• 48:34
  like, Oh, shit. That's a good indicator. yeah
• 48:37
  i had introduced myself a lot of the time if
• 48:41
  i do introduce myself i introduce myself as brie
• 48:44
  because it's it's not my full name that's a good
• 48:46
  indicator too that something might be a little
• 48:48
  inhuman exactly and like we did have that happen
• 48:53
  a few times after that but i haven't had that
• 48:55
  happen a long time but i also stopped introducing
• 48:58
  myself too so like i think i think that i have
• 49:03
  more more limits because one of my religious
• 49:06
  background and two because i have had that sort
• 49:09
  of thing happen where i've introduced myself
• 49:11
  and have had like i never had anything negative
• 49:14
  happen to me but the fact that something knew
• 49:17
  my name and i hadn't introduced myself was a
• 49:21
  hard no i'm like like done with that like that
• 49:24
  how do you know that exactly so yeah i feel like
• 49:31
  that investigation too didn't it like touch you
• 49:33
  so it like kind of invaded your space a little
• 49:36
  bit too i don't remember if it did or not yeah
• 49:38
  i'm not maybe i'm getting it mixed up but still
• 49:41
  like that whole investigation was yeah because
• 49:43
  it was also super random because like it did
• 49:46
  not seem like a place that should have been haunted
• 49:48
  yeah um yeah it was it was it was very interesting
• 49:53
  but um well yeah like i said i i'm not going
• 49:58
  to go out and try to do a ritual or write a ritual
• 50:02
  or participate in a ritual but i'm not going
• 50:06
  to stop anyone from doing it i'm going to advise
• 50:08
  i wouldn't do that but i'm not going to be like
• 50:12
  no don't do that unless you're doing something
• 50:15
  stupid that's true like trying to summon the
• 50:18
  hat man or santa yeah and even when we did a
• 50:24
  ritual for jocks we took it to the middle of
• 50:27
  the woods not in our house yeah because everything
• 50:30
  has a risk and you like i said you need to understand
• 50:34
  why you're doing it and also why someone might
• 50:36
  not and yeah and that's that's what i think everything
• 50:39
  has a risk and even if you are the most prepared
• 50:42
  you could have like planned it for weeks or months
• 50:46
  even anything could happen you're dealing with
• 50:50
  an unknown who's to say the unknown isn't gonna
• 50:55
  look at your rules and your plans and everything
• 50:59
  and be like i don't care about that you summoned
• 51:02
  me here yeah give us a big the big middle finger
• 51:05
  and be like exactly so i think like you said
• 51:11
  and like i've said some things are fine to be
• 51:14
  left as mysteries and don't need to be taken
• 51:17
  further if something wants to talk to us through
• 51:19
  a spirit box awesome cool love that for us I
• 51:25
  don't think we necessarily need to do a ritual
• 51:27
  to speak to it more. Like, if it has the energy
• 51:31
  and the intention to speak with us, it's going
• 51:34
  to. That's fair. And I think there's one... I
• 51:40
  don't think the occult is evil. I don't think
• 51:44
  anyone is saying that. I think it's a framework
• 51:47
  that one in a hundred times... If prepared for
• 51:57
  in advance and you know you're going to be interacting
• 52:00
  with something where these frameworks might be
• 52:04
  a benefit, I think something like but not more
• 52:08
  than what we did in the jocks film is necessary
• 52:14
  if discussed in advance, planned in advance,
• 52:17
  and known in advance, and is a rare and special
• 52:22
  thing. Once in a blue... moon yeah i it just
• 52:28
  it just kind of reminds me of like the the one
• 52:31
  thing i kept kept thinking like like i said you
• 52:35
  could be totally prepared and things could still
• 52:38
  go wrong it it reminds me of this one scene in
• 52:41
  a movie i don't remember which movie it is but
• 52:43
  it was some sort of vampire movie and some guy
• 52:47
  like was like oh my god it's a vampire and he
• 52:50
  had every single um like religious object that's
• 52:56
  supposed to like ward off vampires and he'd hold
• 52:59
  up one and it would do nothing so he'd fumble
• 53:02
  through his his bag and hold up another still
• 53:05
  would do nothing and he just kept doing it and
• 53:07
  nothing was working because it didn't care like
• 53:11
  yeah it didn't follow the rules of what was written
• 53:14
  like it still ended up eating him well when we
• 53:18
  were in new orleans i wouldn't let angela try
• 53:21
  to find vampires. That was a hard one. Yeah,
• 53:23
  thank God. No summoning or even engaging with
• 53:27
  vampires. I was doing extensive research to try
• 53:30
  to find where the vampire hangouts are. No. I
• 53:35
  was like... Maybe that's a topic for another
• 53:39
  day. Ben was not allowing... I was wanting to
• 53:42
  try to find a vampire and then we bring it on
• 53:44
  the podcast. As HR manager, I said that was ill
• 53:47
  -advised and I would not sign off on it. See,
• 53:51
  this is what I was saying at the top of this.
• 53:54
  And unless any final anything we want to put
• 53:58
  on the record before we touch base again about
• 54:01
  this later. I think like we've we've shared all
• 54:05
  like all of our thoughts. I think we're we're
• 54:07
  all at where we thought we were at the beginning
• 54:10
  of this. But it's always good to have that touch
• 54:12
  base and say it out loud, too. Yeah. I'm curious,
• 54:16
  though, from you guys, because. Especially you,
• 54:20
  Bru, because I'm not quite sure what the answer
• 54:22
  to this might be. Do you think all non -human
• 54:26
  entities are bad or evil? That's a good question.
• 54:34
  Because if it's good, would that change if you'd
• 54:41
  be more willing to talk to it? So that's the
• 54:44
  thing. More deeper. Is looking at it religiously.
• 54:49
  All spirits are bad. All entities are bad. All
• 54:52
  things are trying to trick you. So even if it's
• 54:54
  presenting as good, it's possibly bad. Yeah,
• 54:59
  I mean, that's a thing that we never know, though.
• 55:01
  Yeah, but we have interacted with more of elemental
• 55:07
  or naturalistic entities. Like, something that
• 55:11
  came from nature. Is that inherently bad? I don't
• 55:18
  know. I think that's what I would say, too, is
• 55:22
  I don't think any inhuman spirits are good or
• 55:26
  bad. And I think you need to approach each one
• 55:29
  knowing why one person might view it as good
• 55:33
  and another might view the same thing as bad.
• 55:37
  Like, I'm fully aware someone can watch the jocks
• 55:40
  film and be like. What the hell were you doing?
• 55:44
  That is one evil entity you're talking to, you
• 55:47
  know? Yeah. Someone can always, I don't think
• 55:53
  there's good or bad with the inhuman type of
• 55:55
  stuff, and I think you need to understand the
• 56:00
  nuance of why someone might think it is good,
• 56:02
  why someone might think it is bad. And to Bree's
• 56:08
  point too, I think I think you got to be consistent
• 56:11
  about it like Bree and either talk to them all
• 56:15
  or talk to none of them. Talk to all or talk
• 56:17
  to none. You can't cherry pick. This inhuman
• 56:20
  is good. This inhuman is bad because there's
• 56:24
  going to be someone that says that that's evil,
• 56:26
  you know? Like, oh, it's a good inhuman. And
• 56:28
  someone else says it's evil. You got to understand
• 56:31
  there's nuance. So be like Bree. That'd be hard
• 56:37
  for me. I mean, I love you, Bree, but I'm too
• 56:40
  curious of a person to just not talk to any of
• 56:43
  them. But like I said, we don't even agree. I'll
• 56:47
  bring it up to the top, like I said. It's good
• 56:50
  that we don't agree on anything, even down to
• 56:55
  the fact that everyone on planet Earth knows
• 56:58
  it's a terrible idea for Angela to go chasing
• 57:01
  vampires her first night in New Orleans, having
• 57:05
  never been. down there before. Vampire contact?
• 57:10
  Bad idea. Angela? She's part of us. She thinks
• 57:16
  it's great. We have been warned by a lot of people
• 57:20
  though who do believe in vampires and they are
• 57:24
  in New Orleans that they are not good people
• 57:26
  and you should stay away from them. But me, I
• 57:31
  still want to go out and try to find them. Yeah,
• 57:34
  we can't even. I want to talk to them. I want
• 57:36
  to understand their mindsets. We'll save the
• 57:39
  vampire. We'll save vampires for a different
• 57:41
  topic. We'll talk about that down the road. But
• 57:45
  just know, even something like vampires, we can't
• 57:47
  all agree on. Even we talk about cheese, we can't
• 57:51
  agree on. Like, we all have all these nuanced
• 57:55
  views and different views, which most paranormal
• 57:59
  teams, they'll all be like, listen. On this team,
• 58:04
  fill out this application card. If your favorite
• 58:07
  cheese isn't Brie, hashtag be like Brie. Get
• 58:13
  out of here. You know? Couldn't Brie leave it.
• 58:17
  Brie leave it. Uncle Bunkable. Uncle Bunkable.
• 58:26
  We're ending with a sigh? Are you kidding me?
• 58:31
  You could have just ended it on Uncabunkable
• 58:34
  before the sigh. No. Okay. Thanks for listening
• 58:42
  to this week's episode of Paranormal Lens. If
• 58:44
  you liked what you heard, every five -star rating
• 58:47
  and positive review tells the algorithms we're
• 58:50
  a worthy podcast and pushes us out to more listeners.
• 58:53
  We appreciate each and every one of you, and
• 58:56
  we'll see you next Thursday for another paranormal
• 58:58
  deep dive.