Latest / The On Purpose Podcast / Ep. 363 – Dave Reminick: Let Kids Be Kids

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Ep. 363 – Dave Reminick: Let Kids Be Kids · The On Purpose Podcast

• speaker-0: You are listening to the On Purpose Podcast. What's up, everybody? Welcome to this week's edition of the On Purpose Podcast, where you know it's our privilege to show up with you each and every week, but it's also our mission to get you moving, get you thinking, get you holding yourselves accountable to living that purposeful life we're after and not just going on autopilot. And this week I'm super pumped to have on Dave Remenick, an award-winning composer, educator. guitarist for the Chicago indie band Paper Mice, and what drew my attention to him is the creator of Dad Joke, a children's music project built on imagination, humor, and musical depth, blending his decades of musical experience into songs that that I found very, very surprising, intelligent, and curiosity driven, which is what children need in today's world. So I am excited to sit and talk with Dave because I know he's gonna get you moved a little bit. He's a musician, so we're gonna have some little movement here. And Dave, my friend, welcome to the show. speaker-1: Thank you so much for having me and thanks for the lovely introduction. speaker-0: Dude, I'm excited to have you, man. Dad jokes are my jam. I have three kids. I'm always looking for new material. And you're like taking it to the whole next level with music to speaker-1: Thank you. Yeah. I can I tell you my favorite dad joke by the way before we get going? It may not actually qualify as a dad joke because I feel like it's actually a good joke, but usually there's like that moment when people don't get it and it's just like, ⁓ maybe it is. Okay. So what do you call a teacher who won't fart in front of their class? speaker-0: I would love it. That's a good one. Whatever. speaker-1: A a private tutor. speaker-0: See, that's what I'm talking about right there, Dave. That's exactly what our community needs more of. I am so excited to have you on the show. And I want to first off thank you for what you're doing. And that is using your talents to inspire kids to think and be curious and to ask questions. And using music is a avenue to reach them in a way that lecturing or just giving them information may not reach their heart and their soul because music is the rhythm of our lives. And and I wanna thank you for one, seeing the need for that and two, the courage to put yourself out there and follow through with it. speaker-1: ⁓ thank you. You know, I think I think I I it I feel like a lot of the way that we approach children and the reproach the educating them, but also the pr the way that we kind of respond to them, ⁓ relies on a certain understanding children, understanding of children as kind of mini adults, like adults in training. and I I feel like that that doesn't really do justice to like the the kind of depth of their abilities and their knowledge. So like ⁓ so what I what I mean by that is like, for example, ⁓ the the when when a child writes a story, right, we often find ourselves, they bring it to us and we find ourselves kind of correcting it and fixing it and trying to make it more like the story that we would tell and and and kind of smooth out all of the edges so it makes sense to us. But those things that we're smoothing out, I think are very often the kind of most beautiful and interesting things about those stories, that those Those elements are things that we would as adults, we've been taught not to think that way. And so we'd never come up with that kind of thing. ⁓ and so if we actually are leave those things in and find a way of appreciating those things for their own sake, for just for being those those things, ⁓ I think we have a very we we we leave with a different understanding of kids. And I think that that that approach, we can broaden that out to just how we approach kids in general, to kind of ⁓ respect and admire them for who they are without trying to turn turn them into something that they're not. speaker-0: ⁓ I love that. That's so deep and so profound and and and honestly when I listened to your music and preparing for this, I found your music reaching the kid in me. Right? Like making me want to be curious and make me think like, wait a second, why am I thinking why don't like you you you you shared your thoughts on topics and things that made me go, Okay, that's an interesting reflective. Let me speaker-1: Well thank you. speaker-0: sit with that. Maybe I need to be more curious. And I think that's one of the things we're missing so much in the world nowadays is just that genuine curiosity to learn and to experience. And you and I were talking a little bit off air, not being perfect and having everything make sense all the time. But some of the stuff we're supposed to do shouldn't make sense at all. speaker-1: No, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I think at least on on in my music in general, there's always a lot of absurdity ⁓ and kind of I w I maybe we called surrealism or or whatever, but I think that that like the ⁓ I was I am a a big ⁓ I don't know if you know David Lynch's movies at all, ⁓ but he ⁓ he makes some really messed up movies, really like really really weird and messed up stuff. But like he he he's very into transcendental meditation, which I'm not yet myself into. But he's he's into it for the sake of kind of like plumbing the depths of your imagination and trying to trying to figure out like he calls it catching the big fish, like figure out like what's lurking in you know in there that you can kind of bring out, you know. And I think that that those weird things ⁓ that you bring out, ⁓ it in a in a way it gives us access to something that you know our kind of logical brain would never give us access to. And those things are very, very often really interesting. Like, I mean, I have a song on the album called I Hope Nobody Drops a Big Rubber Horse on My Head. Now that's that's stupid. I mean, that's silly, that's ridiculous. But, you know, for for me that that that idea led me to ⁓ you know, some pretty I thought it, you know, some pretty ⁓ it just fit right with my sense of humor and led me somewhere that I thought was just ridiculous. And I thought, why why am I why censor this? Why not just follow it through? Why not write a song like that? And why not make a video where I get hit in the head at the end with the horse? Like I think that makes a lot of sense to me and I think that's funny, you know? speaker-0: Yeah. And I think that's just one of the things that I loved ⁓ loved about you and and preparing is you you're having fun. You're enjoying things. speaker-1: Yeah. No, yeah. I when when ⁓ so I went I I did a lot of school. I went to a lot of school for for music. ⁓ I have a lot of degrees and my my f the final degree I got was a composition degree, ⁓ a d doctorate in composition. And, you know, I one of the things I realized kind of halfway through my degree is is I wasn't enjoying writing music. Like I felt like I was pretty good at it. And I enjoyed writing with my band, but when I s when it's time for me to sit down and write my, you know, my string quartets or my what you know, whatever pieces I was writing, ⁓ I I I I didn't think I didn't find it fun. and I realized that I was writing the wrong music. And not that I needed to write children's music at that point. I found a way to to to write that music and enjoy what I was doing in school and write music that I felt like was really reflective of my interest and of of my imagination. And now doing children's music, it feels even closer to to kind of who I am and and and what what I have in my head, if if that makes sense. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Like writing for yourself should be fun. speaker-1: I mean I I I feel like if you're trying to make something fun, it should be fun for you, you know? speaker-0: First trying to write it for me, which takes the fun from you because now you're trying to guess what am I looking for? What do I what will resonate with me, but may not be the true voice you wanted to express. speaker-1: Yeah, and think about it. If like if like if you're if I'm trying to write for you, you're you're someone in my audience, right? I'm trying to write for you. I want make you happy. But there's however many other people in that audience, and I can't make all of them happy at the same time. That's there, some of these things are mutually exclusive. Yes. Right. And so and and besides that, I don't know what's in your head. So any version of you that I try to write for is just me. It's just me imagining you. It's all still s me in my own head, you know? Yeah. So I mean, I there obviously are limitations. I shouldn't be writing things with like, you know, curse words or whatever in it, but like You can write for kids whatever it is you I I I feel like I could write the music that I want to write ⁓ and have it work for kids ⁓ without really having to censor myself or or change who you know who I am. It's it's it's if you can write to make yourself happy and write to make something that really kind of sparks that imagination and and happiness in you, then like I feel like that comes through. Can I can I mention something? Do you know ⁓ do you know ⁓ Alyssa Liu, this the skater? ⁓ speaker-0: Uh-huh. speaker-1: She is like for me, she's the like the ideal of like who I want to be. Like I if I didn't if you remember her story, like she was, you know, she was a skater for a long time and a champion and everything like that. And then she left because it wasn't fun for her. Like she, you she it was making her miserable. And she decided to come back and do it on her terms. And I don't know if you saw her gold medal performance from the Olympics, but like it was pure magic. And and she she radiated such joy and such like just genuine. love of what she's doing. And she didn't care if she won or lost. She just went out there to spread that love and joy. And because of that, not only did she win, but it was just like the most remarkable performance I've I've like ever seen. And you know, almost across like genre. Like, and you know, I'm I'm not that into figure skating, ⁓ but like that really stuck with me. And that's kind of like I want to, I want to do what she's doing. I want to, I want to be that. speaker-0: Yeah, she removed the pressure of everybody else's expectations and just said, I just have to be true to me. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. speaker-0: All right, before we get too far into this, I got some warm up questions. Like I can't just throw you into the to the ⁓ the the deep end here. I gotta get you nice and warmed up. Are you ready for these? speaker-1: Let's do it. Let's do I'm I'm in. speaker-0: If your life has an intro song, what is your song? speaker-1: My gosh, if it has an intro song. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, you get to everywhere you go they play this song before you enter the room and everybody's moving to your song. What is that song? speaker-1: Like a song in in the world or song that I wrote? speaker-0: Either. Whatever you want us moving to. speaker-1: I used to joke that I I wanted to have the Super Super Mario, the original Super Mario Brothers theme song just like playing when I go places like like I wake up in the morning, it's like doo doo doo doo doo doo and then like you like I go into a building and it's like doo doo doo doo, you know. ⁓ but that's I don't I I think I'd get sick of that. I I feel like the one that's coming to mind, and I don't I you know, I don't know why this is coming. ⁓ I'm trying to think like I don't think it's my Like you're not asking me what my favorite song is. My favorite song is a completely different answer, but I think of like a song that just makes me feel good and just feels like it's giving the energy that I that I have. And it's a very unexpected song. It's a there's a ⁓ a guitarist from I think I don't remember if he's from New York, but his name is Fred Frit. He does like like improvised weirdness and like he, you know, he's a composer too, and he I think he teaches or taught at Mills and he writes very weird music, but he has a song that's ⁓ like I think it's the happiest song I've ever heard. It's instrumental. ⁓ it's called Spring Any Day Now, and it just It just brings me such joy and it just just it's just like a ray of sunshine that song. ⁓ and I would be happy to just like to have that be the the one that introduces me. speaker-0: That's a good one. I'm putting it in my phone so I can listen to it. ⁓ all right, favorite book. speaker-1: ⁓ Day Tracker's Guide to the Galaxy. speaker-0: Ooh, that's a good one. speaker-1: That's like my my favorite like pleasure book. Yeah. ⁓ I think my my like my favorite like brainier book. ⁓ and this is maybe not appropriate 'cause I'm a children's artist, but it i well it's not not appropriate. It's the Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. Yeah. Read it or speaker-0: Really? Okay. No. No, I mean I know of but I've never read it, but what what drives you to that? speaker-1: I I Rushdie's writing in general really draws me in. I think he's he he toes this line that is just like he he he writes in such a casual style. but he also writes in a very heady voice sometimes. And so he'll have this sentence that's like super deep and thought out, but he's just like slang using slang words all over the place. And ⁓ you know, ⁓ so he like his the way that that kind of tone is really love lovely. But also like the way that he he he ties things together and this kind of magical realism that he does. And like His grasp of just narrative. Like the opening of that of that book is two people falling out of an airplane. I mean, he just throws you into it, you know? And it's just like it's so just I'm just like taken with it. I know it's a very controversial book and you know, he was almost killed for it and everything like that. But like, ⁓ I think the people who had a problem with it didn't read the whole book because it has nothing to do with what they thought it had to do with. But anyway, you know, it's ⁓ so that book and the Hitchhiker's Guide, because I think the Hitchhiker's Guide is just a It's just s so creative and fun and hilarious. And like there's moments of like real depth in that book. There's a passage I I can maybe dig it up later that it is just so artfully written and striking and completely different in tone from the rest of the book. And I feel like he's just kind of like flexing by by you know, showing he can do this and showing he can do that and speaker-0: That's good. Yeah. All right, Dave, what's something you've learned about yourself lately? speaker-1: ⁓ something I've learned about myself lately. ⁓ well I think I think it's it's that ⁓ I think in in I I one of the things I've I I talked about this recently, I think, on another podcast. And I hate to like talk about the same thing that I that I did with somebody else. ⁓ but ⁓ you know, I I I I I realize that ⁓ When I have free time to kind of take care of myself, I end up writing music. I end up taking that free time to do to write music because it's a it's it it's relaxing for me. It's a place where I feel like I can be ⁓ act be creative without any boundaries. Like I can, I can, I can like there's there's nothing I don't have to go by any rules. I can do whatever it is I wanna do. And ⁓ I don't think it's necessarily the healthiest thing in the world for me to be kind of working. when I'm trying to kind of take care of myself. And so what I realized recently in a conversation with my therapist was that I, you know, I I had I had bought a video game while my partner was out of town and and it was one of these open world video games. And I found like I I had this just intense craving for the open world video game. And I tied these things together I you know in the session, I realized that like what I'm craving in that game is that freedom to go anywhere and do anything and climb any wall and touch any, you know, and and like that that kind of ⁓ that just unbound, unjust I don't I can't think of the word, but just like that ability to just do whatever you want, ⁓ is is like my recharge. It's what I kind of need. And that can be a video game. It can be like I said, it can it can be a lot of things. There's a certain kinds of puzzles that I like that give me that feeling. But like I I I find it very restorative ⁓ to kind of put myself in a situation where I have no rules. speaker-0: If that makes sense. Yeah, for sure. What's a a favorite quote you have or a quote you kinda live by? speaker-1: Quote. ⁓ man. ⁓ yeah, okay. ⁓ well, my favorite quote is ⁓ and I I use it a lot in my teaching actually. ⁓ it was from my daughter was doing a ⁓ like a like a games magazine, ⁓ highlights brain whatever called magazine. And there was a puzzle where it's you know the puzzles where it's like a bunch of random letters and you have to replace every letter with a different letter to make a sentence? So the answer to the to the thing when once we solved it was this sentence. And I was just like, this is so profound and so s so simple and I don't know why it hasn't struck me. And ⁓ that sentence is, ⁓ if you want to be I'm that might get the wording wrong, but in order to be good at something, you have to be bad at it first. And I I I I know it sounds kind of trite and when you think about it, just ⁓ I before you actually like dig into it, but I think like that idea, like I like I said, using my teaching, and so so often my students, I'll be teaching them something new and they'll make a mistake and get really frustrated with themselves. And I say, why would you possibly Be upset with yourself right now. Like what you are doing right now by making that mistake is what you're supposed to be doing right now. Your job right now is to be bad at this. Your job is to try your best. And those failures will teach you how to do it right. Right. And I'll hopefully I'll have a hand in it too. But like, you know, but that that kind of ethos, I think it gives us permission to fail in so many aspects of our life. And I think that's just invaluable. I think it's so important. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I wanna get into that for sure. I got one more question for you. What is a word or phrase that would describe the season of life you're in today? speaker-1: Late on. I guess ⁓ hurried. And what I mean by that is is not just that my life is hurried all the time and, you know, trying to balance work and and family, but that like, you know, I'm I'm in my mid forties and I just like it's just kind of hitting me now that like this might be I might be past the halfway point and there's a lot of things I want to do. and that kind of ⁓ you know, I think that's actually what kind of lit the fire for me to to ⁓ kind of push this this the children's music thing. I think I'm I'm very bad at at advocating for myself and putting myself out there, ⁓ like just really bad at it. And I I was, I would have been very unhappy, but happy to sit on these songs for years and and not put them out into the world. And I think that realization kind of pushed me to be like, if you're gonna do this thing, if you're gonna make children's music and actually be able to get it to children and maybe, you know, have some kind of influence, a positive influence in their lives, you got to do this now. Like you got to get this out. And I I I I definitely feel like there's a fire under me to kind of like accomplish the things that I want to accomplish. speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's interesting you say that. 'Cause I'm I'm a little older than you, but I I'm I reflect on that frequently I find lately, as like, man, if I'm halfway or two thirds through this journey, I should be doing something good today. Like I don't need to put it off anymore. speaker-1: Yeah, it's it's a it's a I'm very uncomfortable with with with with the my own mortality. Like I wanna I wanna be cool with it and you know, I know I I see people be like really cool with it all the time, but like I'm not like it terrifies me and like I'm not okay with I I love being here and I'm not okay with not being here. And so like, you know, it's a yeah I I imagine you're probably a little chiller about it than I am, but like it's a it's a a very intimidating kind of realization. speaker-0: What do think about this, Dave? Is it also a freeing realization? speaker-1: Tell me more. speaker-0: Well, this way, right? Like it's freeing to know I'm limited in my time. It's freeing to know I won't be here forever. So I don't need to make decisions like they're monumentally impactful to the rest of the world when I have a framework that says, In a hundred years, most people will never have heard of me and my decision that I make today they couldn't care less about. So why am I putting so much pressure on this decision? Verse enjoying the moment of getting to make this decision. speaker-1: That's a really that's a really insightful point, actually. And there there's a ⁓ it it it it brings to mind ⁓ so I wrote I wrote a string quartet ⁓ and I had it it was a piece for singing string quartet. So they had to sing while they played. And it's not about the point of this is that the text I use was from a poet named Russell Edson. I don't know if you know his his po his poetry all at all. He's considered like the grandfather of the prose poem in America and it's very weird, very absurd stuff. But while I was doing this, I was reading interviews with him and kind of Studying his his kind of approach. And one of the things he said, I mean, basically just came out of your mouth. He was just like, ⁓ I don't remember the exact quote, but he was talking about like ⁓ like right sitting down to write and kind of getting caught up in and not knowing what to do. And he says, like, he says, What's the the worst thing that can happen is you're gonna die. And that's gonna happen anyway. So just like relax and just enjoy, I think he called it like the creative bowel movement or something like that. He's like You know, this is just a decision. It's just something that you have to do. It's not gonna kill you. And if it does, that's I mean, that's that's the worst thing that's gonna happen. And like this is probably not gonna be that, you know. So just enjoy this because it's probably not gonna be that, you know? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's good. Momento mori is a a quote I I see all the time, right? And that r basically translates to remember you must die. speaker-1: I've heard those words so many times and I had no idea what they meant. speaker-0: That's what it means. And like if you not in a dark way, like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm gonna die, but literally like, I'm gonna die. I won't be here forever. So let's enjoy what we have. And I think to me, that's that's what I get from you, Dave, when I when I was excited to have you on and researching is you're enjoying the today. Your music is about curiosity and and and questioning and intelligence and Fun. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Which I wanna ask you, like, when did you decide that like, wait, I can take my talents and serve children by instilling some of these messages that they don't even know they're getting messaged, but it because music is just so much part of really who we are and how we connect to each other. When did you decide that was a thing you were gonna pursue? speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, you know, ⁓ the during COVID, my my kind of composing career kind of fell apart a little bit and that all the these things I had planned and performances I had planned got canceled. and this big piece I was working on got basically the performance got canceled. ⁓ and I had been making up songs ⁓ for my daughter since she was little, but like ⁓ during that time I I saw her watching this YouTube video of like You know those like really cheaply animated videos ⁓ that they just I don't know, some like random YouTube site with like a million something followers put out and it they put like no effort into the music, they put no effort into the into the images. It's just like kids will watch this and so they put it out. And and and I you know, I was like, Okay, you can use the iPad, what you want to watch? And that was what she said. She wanted to watch that those videos. And it struck me that this was really like Tragic. This was really harmful. That like the, you know, the what's the problem? What's, you know, what's the what's the issue if she's annoying it? She's if she's enjoying it. Like it's not, you know, it's not a big deal if it annoys me, like if she's enjoying it. But what I was realizing is, at least the way I saw it, was that these videos that that took basically no effort and took no thought to make, they're sending a message to kids. I think they're sending a message that this is what you're worth. I put very little time and very little effort into this and You know, I did that because you don't know any better. And you're not gonna, you know, you'll you'll you'll watch it no matter what it looks like. Now I know nothing about the actual ethos of the people making these videos, but that's what I got from it. And I feel like that's the message coming through. And I thought to myself, like, well, what what's the opposite of that? Like, what's the message I I want her to be getting? You know, it's that like I put all of this effort into this thing because you're worth that. You're the most important thing in the world to me. I'm gonna put as much effort into it as I can, as much as I would f for, you know, the music I write for grown ups, if not more. What message does that send to to a kid? Not, you know, I don't I don't know if kids are actually gonna get that from the my music. My hope is that they will. But like, you know, in in taking a lot of these songs like way past the point that I probably should. Like, you know, the the last song on the album ends up with like a full orchestra. Like, you know, I took a lot of the stuff like way, way too far and and just kind of did what I would do if I was writing music for grown ups. ⁓ I feel like the message I I want them to get is like, I I I value you so much. I respect your intelligence and I I want you to know that, you know, I made this for you, basically. You know? Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. And I and I I saw I forget where I read it or or heard you speak about it, but that you described children as incredibly intelligent listeners. So talk to me about that. How how did you how did you define like how did you say wait, they're way smarter than we give them credit for? And how did that shape your songwriting to reach their intelligence and to spark that curiosity that comes with it? speaker-1: That's a great question, yeah. ⁓ you know, I think there's several several ways that I mean that, right? Like I I I mean that f you know, first, let's talk first about listeners to music, right? That as kind of I don't like using the word consumers of music. I don't want to make this like ⁓ you know capitalistic, but like, you know, people who actually listen to music is what I mean, not that they purchase it. As consumers of music, their their ability to ⁓ understand and in intuit and kind of ⁓ internalize music ⁓ complex rhythms, complex harmonies is way beyond what we we give them credit for. ⁓ they ⁓ I remember when I wrote I have a song in the album, ⁓ the second song, This Is a Duck, and it's the rhythm is extremely complicated in that in that song. It's changing time signatures all over the place in very unpredictable ways, and ways that, you know, we're not used to hearing in in the music that kids usually hear. ⁓ At least not in this country. ⁓ but we can get to that at a later date. ⁓ and I I you know I wrote this song and I've Put a little video out, and I I, you know, my kid had no problem singing, both singing along and singing to Disney's rhythms back when the music wasn't playing. And then my one of my close friends sent a video of his kid singing that song because they watched the video. And the kid nailed the rhythms perfectly. They were so young. And I had, I had, you know, kind of bought into this. And no one specifically told me that kids can't do this, but I think feel like there's just like a That general understanding that there we have to kind of dumb things down and tone tone things, you know, dial things back for them. And what what I learned from that song was like, no, we don't actually like they can process these things and and and intuit what's happening in this music in a in a way that I think most adults have trouble with. And then my kid was walking around singing and was singing music in seven eight time signature, which is a very complicated time signature for for a lot of adults to sing and just flawlessly, like coming up with brand new music in seven eight, not even realizing it, you know. ⁓ so I mean that that's kind of one part that I one way that I mean it. But I also mean in in terms of the way that they listen and understand the the actual words and the and the con the the kind of syntactic content, like the the the meaning behind behind things. ⁓ you know, the ⁓ and that's that's I think a little simpler. It's just that kids are they're they're listening when we don't realize they are, and they're understanding more than we give them credit for. ⁓ and they're Processing these things in ways that are very probably different than we would. And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. But I I think that they're just, there's just a ⁓ there's just a, I don't know how to put it, like a a whole wellspring of of intelligence that, you know, I can't speak for all of us, but for a long time I felt like overlooked. speaker-0: Yeah. You know, ⁓ that reminds me of something, Dave, I heard the other day and it really resonated with me with it was a quote that says, assuming you're normal is normal is why everything else feels foreign. Right. And as you're explaining that, I'm thinking like, Yeah, your your daughter picked it up, even though it's complex. And a lot of adults can't do it because she doesn't know it's complex. She doesn't know it's not supposed to sound like everything else. She's just absorbing it for what it is free. Yeah. Right. And I think so many times as adults, we take an information but we're comparing it to what we already think we know or what our norms are. Yeah. That we make it so foreign or so hard or Challenging when it doesn't have to be. And I think that's just a a testament to what you're doing is you're reaching kids before they've concreted these thoughts and these ideas of what's acceptable, what's not. And you should be super like ⁓ like proud, I guess is the first word coming to mind that like you're challenging them to be who they're supposed to be. speaker-1: Thank you. That's that no, that's that's really a lovely thing to say. Yeah. ⁓ I mean it's I I I hope that comes through. I hope that, you know, that the kids kids, you know, the I I'm not explicitly saying any of this in the music, you know. I I hope that that that that comes through and I I hope that that, you know, ⁓ it gives them kind of license to to to kind of be, yeah, kind of be who they are, you know, and like and not assume these things. And by the way, what you just said, I think ⁓ it it it carries through across so many aspects of life. And it you know, I think that's ⁓ I don't know if you want to go down this this road here, but you know, that that idea of of assuming that you're you're normal is normal and that there's like a default position for things, right? ⁓ I think a lot of I mean a lot of racism comes from that. ⁓ and a lot of the way that we see racism kind of ⁓ forming ⁓ in in you know, I mean I'm I was I ⁓ in in my teaching when I was teaching like music theory classes, right? There was just an understanding that the way that we're doing things in this classroom, that's the default setting. And I had to do a lot to undo that understanding that like, you know, there are there are cultures ⁓ that that, you know, that our music is is is weird. And our music is is different. And if we assume just just just that it's just normal and that our way of doing things is the way to do things, we're we're implicitly putting ourselves above somebody else, right? Some putting our culture above somebody else's culture. And there's I I can think of ⁓ you know, there was a ⁓ when my partner and I first met, ⁓ I started trying my partner was from the Dominican Republic and ⁓ I started trying to learn Spanish. ⁓ and one way I did that was listening to s a lot of Spanish music, a lot of a lot of Spanish language music. and ⁓ I really I really connected with it super hard, but my Spanish wasn't really getting that much better ⁓ until ⁓ you know many years later. And you know, now I'm now I'm I'm fluent, but like when I was kind of getting to that point of of of of getting close to fluency and I was really listening to the music and learning all the words and kind of connecting with with so much of the music, I I found that a lot of the songs were were too long for me. I said, I don't know why this song is so long. I think they should have ended it here. You know. ⁓ and then I started learning to to dance, ⁓ merengue salsa batata. And I realized, ⁓ these songs are long because they're meant to be enjoyed on the dance floor. You're meant to dance from them. to them and this we don't want the song to end because we're having such a good time. And all of a sudden I realized I'm thinking of this from like a purely compositional, theoretical, analytical perspective, which is where I live a lot of the time, you know, a lot of my time isn't from that perspective. And all of a sudden I realized, holy crap, like that's not the default setting. Like actually if there was a more common default setting in the world, it would be to for music to be used to dance. ⁓ and all of a sudden my perspective on this music that I already loved just it just like opened up. And and things made so much more sense to me and it was very humbling to realize that like like that I'd been so off in my in my I was so ⁓ self centered in my appraisal of it, you know. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think, you know, they that's such an awesome story. And I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier, right? And that is being curious and assuming I don't know, right? And that's one of the most freeing things I've done as I've gotten older is I realized quite honestly how arrogant I was in my twenties when I thought I knew so much and how much more fun it is now at this age to go. I don't know. You tell me, Dave. I want to learn from your experience. speaker-1: It's a much it's a I've you know, th I'm like good for you because I I feel like that's a really hard change to make to the kind of from from being like the the like I know everything to actually like taking that kind of like more of a student mindset. I feel like that's a really hard change to make and and it it's you know, it's one I feel like I can't speak for other people. I struggle with all the time and I don't want to struggle with. I wanna be, you know, I w I'm I am very a very curious person, but I wanna be more so and I wanna, you know, I think that that's a great perspective that you have. speaker-0: Well, it's funny 'cause it's from travel, right? My wife and I sold all our belongings in twenty twenty one and we just travel the country now and we tr we spent a whole winter in Mexico and when I hear you talking about the the Latin music and salsa dancing, like it the first thing that came to mind to me is when we're spending that winter in Mexico and we went out to eat and they never bring you the check. They they will let you sit there for as long as you want. Because dinner is supposed to be enjoyed. And I realized like we had taken our norms of what an experience was supposed to be. Eat kind of as fast as you can because you think they want to turn the table over to get to the next customers because we're used to the the American style. And I remember the the waitress coming over and talking to us and telling us how fast we were. And we didn't what were we in a hurry for? Where were we going? What else is next? Then you're like, wait, that's right. Like Our norm is not their norm and I kinda like their norm right now. Let me slow down and enjoy this. speaker-1: There's actually a word in Spanish that we don't have in English for that, like after the meal, sitting at the table, just like hanging out and talking. Like it's ⁓ so sobremesa. Sobremesa, yeah. Which I think liter literally means like on the table. ⁓ I I hope I'm not getting that wrong, but my yeah, my that my understanding of that word is that like that's what it refers to. ⁓ speaker-0: Sobra mesa. Well, we have a pretty good community down in Baja, Mexico, so they'll fact check us on that one. speaker-1: I'll probably check myself before the end of before the end of this to make sure I'm not making a fool of myself. speaker-0: No, dude, you're good. What ⁓ yeah, I I think I think I want to ask this question of you, Dave. What role does making the songs funny, like humor, also play into tapping into their intelligence and their imaginations for our children? speaker-1: Hmm. Yeah. So I'm I mean, this is this is a very like I'll say personal thing. Like, you know, I think everybody has their own way of listening to music and understanding and appreciating music. And there's lots of great music that I I can recognize as being amazing and I just don't want to listen to, you know, ⁓ stuff that's like, you know, like for instance, when we're listening to kids' music at, you know, at at our house, I don't I don't like to put on kids' music that's like very kind of sappy. ⁓ and like really directly talking in a very ⁓ like a super on the nose way about about feelings. I find that just kind of cloying and I find it just it's just not I don't I don't connect with it. ⁓ but I don't feel like those things that those ⁓ that we can't I don't feel like I feel like it's possible to get at some of those same ideas and emotions through a different a different lens. For me in my music, even in my like my stuff with Paper Mice, it's like post punk, it's loud. And but it humor is a huge part of the lyrics and and and like the and the music in general. Humor is just kind of part of how I make music and how I exist in the world. I I I don't like making music that doesn't have that element in it. I feel like it's a for me it's like a an emotional amplifier that that the humor. Like if the the the when there's when there's a s I I th I was talk like there's like a sad part in a movie. And it's when someone cracks a joke that the tears start flowing for for for for me. You it's like I'm holding it and I'm holding it and then someone says something funny and it's just like blah, you know. ⁓ and I I just I I just feel like that the there are people like me in the world and I'd like to make music for I it's much possible for everybody, but like I, you know, for people who who don't want to listen to music like that, who wanna hear hear something to make them laugh, to make them smile, you know, like I I feel like that's the role that I can serve. And if I'm I I would feel dishonest doing otherwise. And and I think it's a it's a, you know. Building your kids' sense of humor is, I think, integral to their intelligence. I think kids with really great senses of humor is it's, you know, they they understand why it's funny. There's a there's a there's a level of intelligence there and and understanding of the world around them. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I that's so good. I'm just I'm pondering on that because I I think I think we forget that that is a skill we should be modeling. Right? We're really good at modeling all the things to avoid, how to stay safe. We're really good at modeling You know, what what the behaviors are that are expected of you, but like do we model how to laugh at things, how to find humor and stuff that that the majority of your life should be fun? speaker-1: So yeah. Yeah, no, yeah, it's ⁓ and I I think I think there's something to be said for for for modeling what what you're talking about, like you know, how to laugh at stuff, but but like finding the right things to laugh about, the right times, the right places, the right ways to make jokes. I think one one thing I don't remember who was talking about this where I heard it or read it, but someone was talking about like like being the funny person in a conversation can be a very selfish way to be a part of that conversation. That some every time like you talk, you're trying to make people laugh. And you're making everything about you. And you're kind of like pulling everybody into, you know, making yourself the center of attention. And that's something I I I found myself doing at times and f and and felt like that is very obnoxious. I shouldn't be doing that. I'm not being the participant in this discussion I want to be. And so like there's the other side of that too, which is like, well, and it's not the other side of it, it's kind of the the conclusion of what you're talking about, which is like, this is how to how to be funny, and this is how to maybe or the point when when you shouldn't do that. This is how to be part of a conversation where you're actually a participant and a contributor. And not just like taking over the room. speaker-0: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And that's I think that's even more important than we give ourselves that maybe we pay attention to because in in a digital world where everything's so fast and moves so quick, the art of having conversations can quickly be lost if we're not careful to curate it further. speaker-1: Hmm. Yeah, I mean I I I I imagine you're probably pretty intentional about that with your family. It's it's you know, it it it it it it I feel like it's ⁓ we gotta we gotta carve out space for it, you know. It's ⁓ how how do you find you how do you do that with your family? speaker-0: That's a great question, Dave. Well, my kids are a little older now and I've realized I think part of it is realizing I don't have to know everything. So I'm curious to the conversations and they're at an age where I don't have to parent ⁓ Like they come to me for advice, I'll offer advice. But what's more important is that we're just having talks and we're just communicating and I wanna listen. I want to know what's going on in their adult life. And I don't want to offer solutions because I'm not in their adult life. It's a completely different world today than it was when I was in the twenties. And and I think just making that space to where they're allowed to say what they want to say, they're allowed to express what they want to express without trying to filter it to what a parent wants is huge. speaker-1: Takes a lot of trust, right? speaker-0: And you gotta earn it. Right. And I think that's where going back to like slowing down and being present, that's where we break that trust is when we rush them through something because there's something else we have to do. And we're trying to fit their little conversation into the box. We need it to fit in because we got other adult things to go do. But I think if you would stop for a minute and go, wait a second, is this conversation with my daughter that makes Maybe the only time we she ever comes and tells me this in her life. Do I r are those emails that are waiting for me really more important than this? And I think I think that's where I dropped the ball a lot when I was younger, Dave, is like that other thing seemed more important. speaker-1: It's a hard line to t it's a hard balance to strike, you know? speaker-0: It is, but it's not permanent. And I guess that's what I would say is like whatever mistakes you make parenting or just in conver whatever two years ago don't have to be the same ones you make today if you're aware and you know you can pivot. speaker-1: Yeah. You know, it's ⁓ it it brings us back to if you know, if you're gonna be good at something, you gotta be bad at it first. Like like we we make mistakes in in parenting, we make mistakes in in these really important aspects of our lives. And as long as we learn from those mistakes, they don't have to define any ⁓ define us, define our relationships, you know. speaker-0: And we allow ourselves to grow past them. Right. I think that's one of the biggest lessons for our young people is you're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna do stuff you're not proud of. You're gonna do things you wouldn't do again. It doesn't define who you're gonna be tomorrow unless you carry it with you and let it. speaker-1: Yeah. It's a as a person who who ⁓ who ⁓ struggles with anxiety, I think that's a really important point that like, you know, these things that like I'm perseverating on like all the time that you know, from even even from years ago, like I'm the only one who's thinking about ⁓ You know, like speaker-0: For sure. And and and what's the cost? Right? Is are you reaching your full potential today if I'm thinking about the stupid things I did 20 years ago? Probably not, because that means I'm not where I am today. I'm not enjoying this moment, whether whether it's with my wife or talking with you or whatever it is. If I'm holding on to my past, I'm not truly a hundred percent in my present. speaker-1: Yeah. That's I struggle with that so bad. I mean that's it's such a be like that being present and and it it's it's really that's a ⁓ it's hard for me. I'll put it out of I'll stop mumbling and just tell you it's hard for me. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think it's hard for a lot of us. And I think a part of it is ⁓ it's intentionally hard because our society creates it to be hard, right? We're constantly multitasking and we're constantly like engaged in something, like we just don't create enough time to just be. And that's I think what your music does, Dave, is it allows you to just be like be with the song, be with the lyrics, be with the tempos and even Like you said, you know, it it's super challenging. When I listened to it, I found it super I'm not the ⁓ I like I don't know much music theory and stuff. I didn't find it challenging as much as I found it captivating, like, wait, this does sound different to me. It's very interesting that it sounds different to me. speaker-1: ⁓ thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. speaker-0: I think that's what keeps attention. Right. And that's what allows people to stay in the moment is like they're they're learning something new if they're paying attention. Wait, this is new. This isn't normal of what I thought was normal. This is somebody else expressing themselves in a new way that I get to learn with. And for that moment, I can maybe see the world the way you're seeing it, talking to those kids at that time. speaker-1: Thank you. ⁓ One of the I I don't know, I'm I'm not sure if this if you feel this responds directly to what you're saying here, but I think the the the ⁓ I don't I don't I I I try to make my music honest to who I am and honest to the ideas that are in my head. And you know, I I I realize that that makes it sound different to, you know, to a lot of other people and different from a lot of the music that that that the kids' music that's out there. ⁓ but I've I feel like it's it's I've I've encountered criticism before of some of my other music where people thought I was doing something just for that sake, just to make it different. and you know, I I I I find that idea of doing something just to just to be different, to be ⁓ just anathema to like just completely opposite of of of what I'm trying to do. And I and I think the what I'm trying to do is is is is be true to the way that I perceive music and the way that I I hear it in my head. And I think that, you know, in ⁓ when I teach composition, when I teach songwriting, one of the things that's so hard to get kids to do is is and adults as well, is to write what they want, right? To to to to kind of inhabit their own ⁓ imagination and and and and and follow that imagination and and and follow those intuitions without as much as possible without the kind of hand of of ⁓ expectation guiding them too much, if if that makes sense. speaker-0: ⁓ totally makes sense. It's to just go. Like don't stay in the guardrails. Just let it go and see what comes out of you. And like, if you think back it it's so crazy that we we steer everything into these nice little neat boxes. But if you look back at the history of mankind, most of the greatest things were created by somebody who chose to be a little different. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: That chose to see it a little different, was allowed to pursue a different outcome from a problem we thought we already knew the answer to. speaker-1: Or maybe n I may I mean I I agree entirely, except I wanna I wanna maybe it's not that they chose. It's it's just that they let themselves, right? 'Cause I don't I don't think it's I don't think you can I mean you can choose to be different, but I think like the the I when it when it when it when I I see artists or or you know, musicians or or whatever who who are being a little different, the stuff that I connect with the most is when it feels the most honest. It feels like they're they're not choosing to do something different. They're just listening to who they are, they're just doing the thing that's inside of them. yeah, and I think that's ⁓ I I I wanna say it's I I want that to be an easy thing to do. For me it was one of the hardest things in the world because I've I so so many times I'd sit down and to to write music and realize that what I was writing is what I thought I was supposed to be writing and not what I wanted to write. And it took me ⁓ a long time to kind of I don't wanna say undo, you know, the decades of study and the all you know, all the n the theory knowledge and whatever, but just to be able to to quiet it so so that my own voice could speak, if that makes sense. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I a hundred percent. No, absolutely. Dave, what part of this process of dad joke and the music has surprised you the most? speaker-1: ⁓ surprise me the most. I g you I I I I gotta say, when I when I started doing the project, I really didn't know what the songs were gonna sound like. I I didn't know what the music was gonna end up being like. And ⁓ I I you know I had in my mind what what it what it what it might I mean, my the first couple of songs I wrote sounded nothing like the stuff that you hear on this album. It was more more kind of standard what you'd expect from kids' music. ⁓ and then, you know, I realized that that wasn't what I wanted to be doing and that wasn't what my kid was enjoying my kid was enjoying the stuff that was weirder. And then so like you know, every time I start a song, I have an idea of what that song is going to be. And almost every time it ends up being wrong, ⁓ but in a good way. So like for instance, the the the last song on the album is called I Tried to Use AI, but it came out weird. ⁓ and it's the song is is is about why we shouldn't use AI for for music, for art, for anything like that. And it's it's a kind of ⁓ you know an argument in favor of the human creative process. And when I sat down to write that song, I I had some weird pictures ⁓ that that you know AI kind of imagery had just come out, and my my kid and I were just exploring it, and we came up with some stuff that was just ridiculous. And I thought it was so funny, we had to write a song about it. ⁓ and I thought the song would take me a couple days to write, ⁓ and it would be very simple and it would be easy to write. The video would make itself. ⁓ and the song took me months to write. It ended up going through all these different sections and ending up with like a 70s acoustic guitar sound and then turning into a full orchestra. And like the song ended up being like the preachiest thing I've ever written, ⁓ you know, and like really taking a stand of ⁓ like a a pus a firm position about about this stuff. And the video took took like a very long time to make. And like like none of this ended up sounding anything like what I thought it would. and I I I mean, I I'm it it was it was very surprising to me and it was a very welcome surprise because I think it was a lot better than what I had originally envisioned it at as. And if I had stuck with what I to trying to make it like my first vision and not kinda let my intuitions guide where where it went, I would have been a a a a much stupider song. speaker-0: Yeah, we we talked about this before air and I I wanna get your insight on this 'cause it as an artist and somebody who's dedicated their life to music and creating music and now channeling for children. You're passionate about AI and the arts. What is what is something you'd share with us to be aware of from your end as somebody that that's poured their heart and soul into music? speaker-1: Yeah, you know, I think A AI has a lot of potential across a lot of areas of life. ⁓ you know, what it can do for medicine, what it can do for ⁓ you know, just ⁓ making certain aspects of our lives easier, I think is really you know it could have a pretty profound impact. But its impact on art and on you know, on music, on on on writing, on all all all all of these things that are ⁓ that are artistic endeavors. I feel like it's a really malignant in influence. ⁓ you know, seeing ⁓ seeing people I I mean, I don't want to talk about capitalism, but like I I have to here, you know, because like seeing ⁓ people just forgo hiring people to do art, for foregoing graphic artists, foregoing, you know, paying people to to produce something and just being like, ⁓ I can do it with a computer, I can just do it with AI for free. You know, yes, it's putting people out of work, but also what it's doing is it's it's re it's removing The the the aspect of that I think is the most important aspect of art, which is human-to-human communication, right? Art is meant to portray something. It's meant to ⁓ we're meant to interpret it, we're meant to understand it, and it's meant to communicate some kind of understanding between people. And that might not be a direct understanding, but for if at some level, it is one human being communicating something with another human being. AI has nothing to do with that, right? When AI makes a piece of art, it's not trying to communicate anything. It's just putting together other stuff that people have done to try to meet the prompt or to do what what what it's been asked to do. And so like, you know, you we hear all these AI songs coming out and and everything. And like, you know, I can spot them a mile away. ⁓ and the, you know, the technology is going to get better. But I still feel like as it gets more and more convincing, we're s we're going to be able to spot it because it doesn't feel authentic. It's not a it's not a real communication between people. It's, you know, it's not it all it is is is a c computer garbling stuff together and recycling it and trying to spit out something that makes sense. I think that's really harmful because, you know, you know, even if we're not making money for for for for making art, which I think artists should be paid for for their work, we're losing what is ⁓ just one of the most fundamentally human things that we can do, which is make an artistic make a work of art of some whatever form, visual, auditory, you know, and sharing it with other people and just enjoying that, the the the act of creation, the act of interpretation and understanding of that. And it it just kills it. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I agree. And then on the the back side is the receiver of the art. There is no story to it. There is no what was Dave trying to tell me here? Like what is his message? What was his mood when he wrote this? What was he going through? What phase of life was he in? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean there's there's there's nothing to be interpreted, right? And there's no yeah and you know, and the thing is like I remember seeing like a a I must have met a TikTok or something like that, of a guy put his I think it was text from his wife or girlfriend and and turned them into emo songs, had the AI cr you know, crank out emo songs. And it was funny. I mean, it was legit funny. ⁓ the songs were bordering on catchy, and I was like, ⁓ okay, like the AI can actually come up with a melody or it can come up with a f like a fun sound and and everything like that. But you know, people can do that too. People can come up with fun melodies, people can come up with fun sounds, and they'll do a better job of it. And also, it's a person. They're communicating something with you, you know, like like it's for all that for for all of the ability that that A high I had, and for all the programming and work that went into getting to do that, it's it's it's it's a husk. It's a husk of of, you know, there's there's nothing there. ⁓ and it was funny because the texts were funny, the idea was funny, the songs. It didn't need AI to do that. It just was it quicker. It took no effort. It took no money. Right. You know. ⁓ there was a quote I I ⁓ I want to mention to you that I don't remember who said it. I don't remember the exact wording. And I'm sorry to the person who said it if that I don't remember it. ⁓ but they said, ⁓ AI puts skill in ⁓ sorry, give AI gives the wealthy access to skill without giving the skilled access to wealth. And I think that's a huge, hugely important aspect of this from a kind of capitalistic point of view, which is that, you know, artists were traditionally paid for their work, and it cost money for the wealthy to pay to pay them. And now the wealthy don't to pay anything, but they're getting the art artistic product for free. And the people who are the creatives who are actually doing the work get no access to the, to the, to the, to that money. It it's it's sums it up really well. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's interesting for sure. Dave, it's been an honor having you on the show, my friend. I love our conversation. I love what you're doing and where can our audience connect with you, follow along on your journey and support you in this artistic endeavor? speaker-1: Thanks for that. Yeah. ⁓ it's been thank you for having me. It's been a it's been a real ⁓ real pleasure talking with you. ⁓ you can go to dad joke music.com, ⁓ or you can also go to dad joke musicforkids.bandcamp.com to purchase ⁓ my new album, Fun Intended. ⁓ I'm I'm streaming on all the streaming platforms as well. ⁓ it's a little hard to find me under dad joke because there's a lot of people who who like a lot of things where people are actually telling dad jokes. So if you type out dad joke as one word and write the album name Fun Intended, you it'll lead you to It'll lead you to me, ⁓ on the streamers. And once I'm famous, I'll ⁓ you know, then then ⁓ I'll get there quicker. You you'll you'll be able to just type dad joke and be ⁓ you probably mean this dude, but speaker-0: Yeah. Dave, thank you so much. I can't wait to share your story with our community and keep up the positive work you're doing, my friend. Hey everybody, it's Jared Hardy here. If the On Purpose podcast has sparked something in you, maybe a shift, a question, or a deeper dive, my excellence and leadership course is built to help you act upon it. This isn't just about leading others. It's about leading yourself with intention, resilience, and clarity. Whether you're an individual chasing growth or a team ready to level up. I offer custom coaching and speaking engagements to meet you where you are. Visit teamhardy.net and let's grow with purpose. And remember team, life is far too short to live any other way than on purpose. We will see you all again next week.