Latest / Ryder Lee / Don't Listen To The Voices | Jerry Marzinsky & Judy Gregerson

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Don't Listen To The Voices | Jerry Marzinsky & Judy Gregerson · Ryder Lee

• 0:37
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  Speaker 1: to the top of the chat and it's also in
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  Speaker 1: the description with that down A warm welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show. The author of the amazing book A Journey
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: into the Psychotic Mind, Breaking the Spell of the Ivory Tower,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: which was what first introduced me to our guest here. Today.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: He has a BA in psychology from Temple University's degree
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in counseling from University of Georgia, two years in a
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  Speaker 1: PhD psychology program. Retired licensed psychotherapist who worked for over
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  Speaker 1: thirty five years with schizophrenic and psychiatric patiints in state hospitals,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: state prisons, and hospital emergency rooms. Jerry Marzinski, Welcome back
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to the show.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: How are you doing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I'm glad to be back with you again.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry, You've been on the show a couple of times,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and you know your book is incredible. Your book is
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: a page turner. I someone recommended it to me and
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I just bought it off of Amazon Prime and just
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: read it all in one setting. It's an incredible book
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and it takes you through the history of these psychiatric
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia and how they were dealt
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: with in the past. And I want to kick this
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: off with a question, is like, how is schizophreni and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: how does that develop in somebody? Is this a hereditary disease.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Is it? What's going on with this? How can people
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: in turn get schizophrenia.
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's a theory that there's a genetic link, but
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: they haven't ever found one. So there's three ways that
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I know of. Is one is schizophrenic's parents will treat
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: their kids in a way, in an abusive way that
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  Speaker 3: paves the way for the voices to move over to them. Okay,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Another way, the most prevalent way is severe psychological, physical,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: and emotional abuse. I mean, you can't virtually talk to
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: any schizophrenic who hasn't undergone one of those things. I mean,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: so it kind of breaks down the spirit. And there's
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: two other ways. Is one is amphetamine. I've never seen
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: more people go insane on inmphetamine than when I was
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: working in the psychology department of a big prison. There
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: were hundreds of prisoners there who had gone insane on emphetamine.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: You know. So they they're feeling good, they're they're high,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: they get a lot done, they have a lot of
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: energy before they crash, and then during their high, they
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: start hearing voices and they just write them off. Oh,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: they're just hallucinations. They'll go away when I come down,
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  Speaker 3: And they do you know, they might go you know,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: come and go away ten, fifteen, twenty five, fifty times,
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: and then one day they don't, and they're with them
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: for the rest of their lives and they can't get
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: rid of them, and they're just as psychotic as any
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: of the paranoid schizophrenics in the state hospitals. It doesn't
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: go away. And the third ways with Ouiji boards. You know,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I've talked to several people who started playing with with
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Wiji boards. They're not toys. They should be outlawed. And
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  Speaker 3: you know, they start communicating with some spirit at that time,
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: and then that spirit moves into their heads, so instead
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: of having to use the Wigi board, they're just communicating
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: with it with the voice in their head. Okay, So
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  Speaker 3: the psychiatric mafia says there's no cure for schizophrenia, that
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  Speaker 3: it's a lifetime life sentence, and that there's nothing you
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: can do except take their toxic medications. That's far from truth.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of things that can be done. You know,
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  Speaker 3: it's not a life sentence. Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: What was interesting is you're bringing up the medication aspect
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: of this, and I've I've never told this story before, Jerry,
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  Speaker 1: but I had really bad in zomnia for a really
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: long time, and the doctor put me on this medication
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  Speaker 1: called sarah quil M was is supposed to be in
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a small dose a sleeping aid sort of like.
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  Speaker 3: It's a nanny psychotic. It's one of the earlier any psychotics.
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  Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. So after a while taking
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: this seraquile that they were prescribing to me for sleep,
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  Speaker 1: I had some really strange things happen, Like I would
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: see things, I would hear things, and you know, it's
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I've never told the story before, but it's I think
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that it's important because we're going to be getting into
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the spiritual aspect of this as well. And I had
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I had auditorially heard I know that you've heard of
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: like mimics and like you know, people like entities mimicking
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: other people's voices. Sometimes they'll hear people mimicking their own voice,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: like back to them, or like family member's voice. Well,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I was upstairs in the house that I was living in.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I heard my I was the only one in the house,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: so I had heard my family members yelling upstairs at
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: me to come downstairs. Okay, this really scared me because
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I knew no one was home. No one was home.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing someone externally yelling to me to come downstairs.
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  Speaker 1: And the only thing that I knew was I had
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: this crucifix, and I grabbed the crucifix and I basically said,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: in the name. This is gonna sound wild, but I said,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: in name it, you know, Jesus Christ. Leave and then
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: it left, and then another one came and it mimicked
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  Speaker 1: another family member's voice, and I did the same thing,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and then another one came, and then I was like, Okay,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: this is going to be like three times. I'm gonna
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: have to do this like three times because three is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like the you know, the magic number. Here is the
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: trinity number. And then I did it again and then
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: they went away.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't sound strange at all. I've had patients
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: at the State hospital told me that when they read
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: the twenty third Psalm, the voices reacted to the twenty
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  Speaker 3: third Psalm like worms thrown on a hot frying pan,
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  Speaker 3: you know. So the psychiatric mafia is saying that these
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: voices are auditory hallucinations. They've done no research on it
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  Speaker 3: at all. They just declared, like the Egyptian priests of old,
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  Speaker 3: we hereby declared that their auditory hallucination because that's what
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: they look like, that's what they seem like. They've done
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: no research on it at all. They haven't talked to
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: the voices. They haven't asked the patients what they were
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: the voices were telling them. And the two times I
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: got caught by psychiatrists asking patients what the voices were
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: telling them, both psychiatrists said, you either stop it or
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: we're gonna write you up. They said, the voices are hallucinations.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: By asking the patient questions about them, you're reinforcing those hallucinations,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: and you're making them worse based on what nothing except
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: their their egos. So the voices. What I've found, you know,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: after decades on the front lines, is that these voices
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: ran patterns. They ran fixed, consistent, repeatable patterns. And if
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: they're running patterns, they can't be hallucinations because, like the
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: psychiatric mafia says, because hallucinations are random, they're all over
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  Speaker 3: the place. You can't predict what a hallucination is going
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  Speaker 3: to do or what it's going to say. They're different
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  Speaker 3: all the time for different people. These things are consistent, right,
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  Speaker 3: And I'm just going to go through first of a
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  Speaker 3: few of the first ones, they're consistently negative. They're always
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  Speaker 3: you're no good, you're rotten, you're stupid, you're ugly, people
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  Speaker 3: are plotting behind your back, somebody's going to kill you.
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  Speaker 3: It's every rotten thing that you can imagine they're telling
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  Speaker 3: these people. So my first question was what holds the
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  Speaker 3: them on this consistent pattern?
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  Speaker 2: Why?
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  Speaker 3: Why aren't they random like all other hallucinations. Why are
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  Speaker 3: they consistently negative? And what's holding them on that consistent track?
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  Speaker 3: Why aren't they Why aren't they random? But they're not. Now,
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  Speaker 3: if you go to my website at Jerrymarzinski dot com,
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  Speaker 3: you go to articles, you will see a list of
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  Speaker 3: patterns that these voices run. So it's not like what
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  Speaker 3: the psychiatric mafia did. Well. What happened was Eli Lilly
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  Speaker 3: back in the seventies came up with this chemical brain
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  Speaker 3: imbalance stuff. So they needed an explanation for why they're
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: anti depressant drugs work. So they made one up. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: there's a chemical balance in the brain, and our drugs
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  Speaker 3: are our drugs do something for it. They somehow fix it.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it was made up. It was totally made
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  Speaker 3: up for profit for their their drug. Then the universities
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  Speaker 3: began teaching it, and the other drug companies grabbed onto it.
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  Speaker 3: They said, oh, yeah, all mental illness is caused by
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: a chemical imbalance of the brain. There's no proof for it.
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  Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, they've disproven it several times already.
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  Speaker 3: They don't even know what the chemical balance of the
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: brain should be, let alone what a chemical imbalance was. Now,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: if you don't believe that, any of you who go
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: to a psychiatrists, okay, they're going to tell you what
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: you have as a chemical brain imbalance and ask them, well,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: what's the what's the baseline, How do you know what's
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: out of balance by how much? What kind of tests
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: are you going to give me to figure out what's
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: unbalanced in my brain and what's not Which of the
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: twenty three neurotransmitters or so are out of balance. They
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  Speaker 3: have no idea, they have no test. They'd have no
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  Speaker 3: objective test to measure what chemicals are out of balance
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: in your brain. It's all made up. It's a fantasy.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: It's a fraud. And what they'll do is they'll just
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: take a subjective guess of the world. What what drug
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: they should start with what's any psychotic drug they should
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: start with, and then they'll just it up and down.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: If that doesn't work, they'll try another one. That doesn't work,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: they'll try another one. They just keep going, going, going,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: until they find one that they think works. Well. Now,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: none of these drugs cure anything. They don't cure depression,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: they don't cure psychosis, right, all they do is tamp
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: down symptoms. They have no idea what causes schizophrenia. Even
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: though it's this chemical brain imbalance thing has been disproven,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: there's still there's still advertising that, you know. They change
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: the wording a little bit. They go, oh, it's believed
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: that schizophrenia is caused by a chemical imbalance of the brain.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: But they have they have no evidence whatsoever.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Right, they just redefine the entire thing like they're like
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: they've done with pandemics and everything else. The uh, what
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: was really interesting Whenever I was on cerquill, which again
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: cirquil was a low doses was supposed to be for sleep,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: That's what it was prescribed to me before. But in
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: high doses it was an anti psychotic. But it's marketed
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: as an anti psychotic. But what this medication did to me.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Was it basically dull dulled me out, like it made
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it to where I couldn't even put sentences together, like
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I couldn't gather my thoughts, and made everything super cloudy.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I was essentially like a zombie, like walking around like
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: a zombie. This was around eight years ago, and I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: was like, what is this medication doing to me? And
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: it wasn't making anything better. It really didn't even help
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: me sleep that much. It just kind of turned me
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and then I was hearing these things. I was seeing things, Jerry.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I was literally seeing weird, strange like entities, like they
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: were there and they were moving. It wasn't like that
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: they weren't really there. They were there. They would move.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I would wake up in the middle of the night
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and there would be something setting on the end of
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: my bed. And people can say, I'm just making stuff up.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not making this up. This legitimately really happened. Now,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: whether it had to do with the medication or if
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it was real, but it seemed very real when I
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: was experiencing it and going through it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: You didn't oh, yeah, you didn't have those symptoms before
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: you went on it, though, right, No? Yeah, Well maybe
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: when I was a kid. When I was a kid,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I seen and experienced really strange things as a kid.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: So I wonder how much of that is actually due
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: to the drug itself, because they don't do anything good.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: I mean the side effects of phenothiasings or dizzyness, drowsiness, anxiety,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: sleep problems. So it's weird they gave it to you,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: you know, for insomnia, because it causes phenothisings that cause it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Breast swell, your discharge, changes in menstrual periods, weight gain,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: swelling of the hands or feet, dry mouth stuff he knows,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: blurred vision, constipation, nause you, weightain, dry mouth, blurred vision, dizziness, anxiety, headache,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: you know, sexual problems, fatigue, tremors, increased swelling, lower alcohol tones, bleeding,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: lower sodium levels, vomiting, restlessness, muscle cramps, seizures. It goes
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: on and on and on. These are the side effects,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: and that's why most of these people go off of
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: those drugs because they're they're not making things. They don't
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: for the most part, they don't get rid of the voices.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: They just weaken them, they lower them, they lower the volume. Okay,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: so here's the psychiatric mafia pushing this stuff. On people
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: saying there is nothing else you can do, and these
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: these patterns that they run. You know, one of the
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: patterns is, like you mentioned, they're anti religious. They don't
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: like the Bible, you know, they don't like uh people praying,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: they don't like them going to church. They become volatile
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: if if the person reads a twenty third Psalm or
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Pal ninety one, they're anti religious. So what kind of
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: hallucination is anti consistently anti religious? You know, if these
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: things are hallucinations, like the psychiatric mafia says, yeah, how
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: can a hallucination be anti religious? You know? And the
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: and they're they're feeding these things the kids. I mean,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: they'll feed them to anybody who will take them, you know,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: but anti psychotics the kids, it's it's egregious.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, any psychotics and antidepressants. Another interesting thing that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you that I want to mention really quickly is that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: one of the first manufacturers of LSD in the United
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: States was for the CIA. I'm sure you already know that, Ny,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: but the first manufacturer I've had USD for the CIA
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in the United States was Eli Lilly Company.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. They're the same ones who made up
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: the lie.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And they were the inventors of prozac yep.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: And that's where they made up that lie that it
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: was a chemical imbalance. They knew it was not right
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: at the time, and they did it anyway. They pushed
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: it for the sale of drugs, and they got away
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: with it for close to forty years before some biochemists
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: caught up with them and said that we find no
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: chemical imbalance of the brain and schizophrenics. There's none that
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: their brain chemically is not any different than anybody else's brain.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: So they got away with First they blamed mothers, saying
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: mothers did something to the kids that caused them to
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: be psychotic. Then they blamed genetics until the geneticist says,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: we don't find the schizophrenia gene. So what they're doing
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: is push it, pushing it up into chemistry and genetics
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: where the average person can't see or see for themselves.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: What's going on. Now when you look at these these patterns,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: the negativity, the anti religious, the patterns I have on
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: my website, you can see these for yourself. So anybody
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: who has schizophrenic kids or works with schizophrenics, go to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: my website at Jerrymartinski dot com and you'll see a
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: list of patterns there that these things run, and you
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: can see them for yourself. They're not hidden anywhere. These
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: things run fixed patterns. They foster and create negative emotion.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: They feed off that negative emotion, and they drain the person.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: They get louder after sunset. They get louder when ignored.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I've heard psychiatrists say over and over again, you know,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: just ignore them, they're hallucinations. Just ignore them. No that
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: they won't be ignored. They get louder. They foster self
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: destructive behavior, and they're poisoning kids with them too. Right now,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: there's more than seven point two now, this is in
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy one statistics, more than seven point two million
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: kids on anty psychotic drugs, on psychiatric drugs over six
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: hundred and twenty two thousand of them, or under the
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: age of five, over eighty thousand of them on ADHD drugs,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: which are amphetamines. Those are the drugs I told you
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: that they with enough of a volume, will bring on
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: psychosis over thirty eight thousand of them, or on antidepressants
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: with the symptoms that I just told you, over eighty
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: five thousand of them, or on any psychotic drugs. These
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: drugs destroy your central nervous system, they destroy your peripheral
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: nervous system. They write your brain. They found out in
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: the autopsies with state patients who've been on these drugs
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: for years they do autopsy, the brain were shrunk like walnuts.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: And of course when they published that research, I'm sure
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: they tried to block it. When they've published it, the
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: psychiatric mafia and big pharma went, no, No, it's a
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: schizophrenia that did that. It's not our drugs. They started
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: feeding these anti psychotics the monkeys, rats, and mice, and
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: they saw the same result. These drugs cause physiological damage
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: through the brain with long term usage, and they're giving
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: them to over eighty five thousand kids right now in
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the US. Over over three thousand, three hundred and eighty
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: nine thousand kids are on any anxiety drugs which are addictive.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: You know, this is a psychiatric mafia for you.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And then how do you do that, Jerry? You create
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: all of these mental health problems, you don't have the
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: science to back it up. And then whenever your kid
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: is unruly, he's doing things that they shouldn't be doing,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: they put them on these antidepressants. They put them on
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: these amphetamines like adderall and riddling like you were just mentioning.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Then there's no other way around it than other than
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: it being an agenda to basically medicate the entire population.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Ye yup. And you can look at the their profits.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: You know, global antipsychotic sales are in twenty twenty one,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: we're at fourteen point five four billion, not million, billion
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: dollars for these drugs that destroy your brain, that don't
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: cure anything. They've made fourteen point five four billion on them,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: and by twenty twenty two they expected that to surpass
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: fifteen point five billion. So antidepressant drugs that by twenty
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: twenty three they had fifteen point nine eight billion billion,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: not million. And these drugs cure nothing. They just tamp
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: down symptoms, you know, And if you turn on your TV,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: you're gonna get smeared with all these drug ads, right, Oh,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: this drug, this drug, for this drug, this drug. So,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: and then you look at the overall thing. You know,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: close to fifty thousand Americans are killing themselves every year.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: That's as many as died in Vietnam, fifty thousand, year
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: after year after year after year, and it's increasing.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Not only the overdose rate too. I'm pretty sure more
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: people have overdose per year than the people that died
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: in Vietnam, the Iraq War, the Korean War all combined.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, believe. So this is happening year after year after
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: year after year, and it's getting worse. It's not getting better.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So there's more psychiatrists, there's more psychologists, there's more psychiatric
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: drugs on the planet than there's ever been before in
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: human history. And the insanity rate is increasing. Between nineteen
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: ninety nine and twenty nineteen, suicide rate increased thirty three percent.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: You look at the suicide rate of schizophrenics, it's three
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: to five percent above that of the normal of the
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: general population. The suicide rate of psychiatrists is almost exactly
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: the same. They're killing themselves at a rate virtually the
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: same as schizophrenics. These are the people that are running
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: the Western mental health system. Look at look at their
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: their their track record. It's despicable. Nobody's getting better, They're
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: getting rich, and nobody's getting better. People are getting worse
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: and they're getting worse month, you know, year after year
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: after year. And then you talk to any schizophrenic, you know, hey, uh,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: you talk to your psychiatrists. Oh no, he doesn't talk
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: to me. Just ask me how how the medicines are doing?
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And am I still hearing voices? And if I tell
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: him I'm still hearing voices, he increases the meds or
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: he changes the meds. He doesn't talk to me about
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: how I feel. And we'll bring Judy on in just
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: a minute here. And I wanted to bring Judy on
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: because she's been there. I mean, she has been in
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: the depths of hell with these voices for over four years.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: They almost tried to get her to kill herself several times.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: You know, they brought her to the pits of hell.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: And most schizophrenics are not brave enough to talk about
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: it because there's a stigma to it. Yeah, they and
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the voices themselves. If they if the person hearing voices
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: starts talking about them, the voices attack them. They don't
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: want them talking about the voices, right, And you know, psychotherapists,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: psychologists and psychiatrists, they don't ask the patients about their voices.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: You know, what are they what are they saying? How
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: do they operate? What do they do? What do they say?
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: This is the major symptom of paranoid schizophrenia, which is
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: the most prevalent type of schizophrenia on the planet. And
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: these guys are not the least interested in the major
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: symptom or investigating what it is. They have just blown
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: it off, saying it's a hallucination. Take our word for
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: it because we say so, with no research to back it,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: nothing to back it except hollow words. You know, I've
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: investigated these things. They run fixed patterns. They've attacked me,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: they run they They've I've spoken to them, I've spoken
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: to them through schizophrenics. They've They've threatened me. I've had
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: conversations with them. They're real. These things are entities, and
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: they're parasitic entities because they suck your energy. So a
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: schizophrenic after being attacked, they will feel that they don't
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: have any energy left whatsoever. But they most of them
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: don't notice it because they feel so bad overall anyway.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: But then when you start asking about it, how do
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: you have? How much energy do you feel you have
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: before the voice has come? How much after they come?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: They'll tell you, well, now to think about it, I
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: don't have any energy after the voice is attacked. That's
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: another consistent pattern. These things are parasites. They're feeding off
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the person's emotional energy. They have to turn it negative
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: first and then they can feed off it. Because they're
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: very low vibratory entities. They can't stand you know, positive
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: energy like Christ, God or anything like that. They want
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: no part of that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, someone's mentioning in the child like marijuana and weed
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and indica strains. Uh, how do you do you feel
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like that people can get into the same psychosis with
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: marijuana and with weed, because I've known some people that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: will smoke some weed and they will instantly get like paranoia,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: They'll they'll go into basically a weed psychosis.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's there's several facets to that. Is one,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: people who are unstable, psychologically unstable, kind of paranoid and
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: on the edge anyway, they shouldn't be using that that
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: could push them over. Okay. The other thing is you
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: never know what that marijuana is mixed with when you
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: buy it off the street. It could be mixed with
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: with anything. And the other thing I've heard is that
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: the voices don't like marijuana because it calms the person down,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: you know. They don't want the person calm down, They
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: want them paranoid. They want them agitated, they want them
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: feeling guilty, they want anxiety. That's what they feed off
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: of the negative emotions. So I've had several schizophrenics tell me, oh, yeah,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: I use it because it calms me down. But the
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: voices don't like it. They don't want me smoking.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: So in some people it helps and other people it doesn't.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: So it's like a case by case basis.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: But you know, marijuana could also be a what do
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: you call it? A kickoff to other drugs also, so
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: you got to watch that. I know several people that
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: started with marijuana and then moved up the line to
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: other drugs.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: But they'll say that that's not factual, Jerry. They'll say
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that the marijuana doesn't cause people to do other drugs.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: That's what they'll said.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Well, they can say that all I want. I've seen
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: many that moved up the line with it. You know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: they start out when marijuana and they go, well, marijuana
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: is good, then meth must be better, or fentanyl must
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: be better, or you know, they don't just stop there.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: A matter of fact, I asked one prisoner who was
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: given ritlin as a kid. You know, I said, you
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: were feeling good on the Ritlin. You were able to concentrate,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: everything was fine. Why did you keep moving up and
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: taking more and more and buying it off the street
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: And he said, well, I don't know, it just it
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: felt good. Now he's in prison, you know, so they
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: just kept increasing it. It's like, Okay, if this little
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: bit makes me feel good, what will more make me feel?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: So I don't want to run on too much longer.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: I want to get Judy on here. Judy's been there,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's she's been to the depths of schizophrenia psychosis,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: and bring her on and we'll just let her talk
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: and we can jump in from time to time with
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: questions or comments whatever whatever you want. But I wanted
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: her to talk to you because she has been there.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's she's been there. She's fault with the
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: voices she won by turning to Christ, which a lot
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: of people have, I mean, because they can't stand Christ,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: they can't stand God, they can't stand Jesus. So that
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: tells you something, Yes.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna bring Judy on now. Having personally endured
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the torment of schizophrenia for four years and experience that
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: blurred the lines between psychological struggle and Spiritual Warfare. Judy gregorson,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. How are you doing good?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, Ryder, I appreciate that.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, thanks for coming on. How did you and Jerry meet?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Well? It was interesting. My youngest daughter of Baunje online
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: she found one of his podcasts he was on and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: she texted me and said, this is your wheelhouse. You
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: need to meet this guy. I'm like, well, okay, I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: don't know that I'll be able to be in contact
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: with him, but I emailed him and said, I can
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: tell you the story. I've been there, and so we
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: emailed a little bit and we talked on the phone
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: once or twice, and then he asked me to go
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: on podcasts with him and we go around and tell
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: my story. And up to that point I probably would
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: not have told anyone. For years, I never told anybody
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: about what I went through because what Jerry's talking about,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: the stigma is so bad. People when they hear that
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: you are you were schizophrenic, people have their own opinions
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: about it, and you do get treated differently. I have
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: friends from way back who knew me when who won't
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: have anything to do with me now because I was
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: so crazy, and they don't believe you can get better,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: and so you always get treated like you're a little
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: bit nuts. So I decided I'd just go full bore.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I did. I did have a book published in nineteen
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: eighty by Double Day about this story, but I was
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: younger then. I didn't fully understand what had happened, how
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: i'd gotten out of it. Over the years, I've come
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: to stand more and I've come to understand spiritual warfare more.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So now it's all very very clear. But when I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: first pulled out of it, it was kind of a
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: mush to understand what had happened. And I still fought
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: battles for spiritual battles for a long time. So Jury
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: takes me around with them on podcast and I tell
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the story and hopefully somebody will hear and it'll make
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: a difference in their life.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. So take us from take us back to the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: very beginning and how this started.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: For you, Judy, Yeah, well, there's there's three aspects to this.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: There's the journey to schizophrenia, there's a journey through schizophrenia,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and then there's a journey out, and for me, the
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: journey too. So I actually believed that I was picked
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: out by these entities when I was young. I grew
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: up in a family with two alcoholics. I lived in
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of emotional abuse, verbal abuse, spiritual abuse,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and watched my mother, who was my best friend, who
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I loved and adored, watched her literally disintegrate over a
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: period of five years from the time I was eight
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: till I was about thirteen, and that so completely traumatized me,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and she left when I was thirteen. She didn't come back,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and I was left with a brother and a sister
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: and a father who was totally neglectful. He was very
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: into his own life. By the time I was thirteen,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I was binge drinking, going off two hundred miles away
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: with my boyfriend for the weekend. I was at fourteen,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I was going out with married men. I was promiscuous.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: All that trauma and all that abuse I had taught
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: me basically that I was nothing. And I think those
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: entities groom you. You go through those things, and they
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: put ideas in mine. You're nothing, You're nobody, You'll never
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: be any good. You know, your life will never mount anything,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: and he began to believe that. So by the time
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I was about fourteen, I had a chip on my shoulder.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I was angry, I was resentful, I was bitter, I
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: was hurt. I was just so hurt. I was so damaged.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I tried to commit suicide when I was twelve. I
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: tried again when I was sixteen. First I took a
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: bottle of pills that I slipped my wrist when I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: was sixteen, and then things kind of calmed down a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: little bit. I went to live with a different family member,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: decided to go up to college, and I went off
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: to college. But when I went, I thought I was
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: going and this was back in the seventies, so I
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: thought I was going to this lag at that time
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: was all free love and you know, free six and
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: everything was. Everything was wonderful, and off I went to college.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: But when I got there, I realized I didn't have
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the emotional coping skills that a lot of kids had,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: and so everything for me trigger trauma. I was constantly
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: being triggered, and whenever I got triggered, I would try
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: to kill myself, or I would slit my wrists, or
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I would do something. Every rejection was a major blowout
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: in my life, and I got involved in my freshman
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: year with some people that were into LSD, and I
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: became an acid head. I did tons and tons and
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: tons of acid until I had a bad acid trip
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: that just scared me because on one acid trip, my
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: brain literally I could hear it snap, and I thought
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I had flipped. I thought I had flipped out. I
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: thought this isn't good. I've flipped. So I stopped doing
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: acid and I was still smoking pot, and so I
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: finished up my freshman year, went home during the summer,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: and then during the summer I started having these episodes
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: where I would begin to kind of I'd be walking,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I was a waitress. I'd be walking carrying a tray,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: and suddenly I would just block out. The room would
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: go totally quiet. I wouldn't know where I was, I
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: didn't know who I was, and I would just stand
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: there and I don't know if it lasted a second,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: two seconds, or ten seconds or a minute, I don't know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: but it scared the daylights out of me, and it
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: convinced me more that I had snapped and I was
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: on a I was on a road to psychologically disintegrating,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: between all the negatives inside me, between all the being retriggered,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: all that trauma being retriggered every time something happened that
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: wasn't pleasant. You know, if I was going out with
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: some guy and he rejected me, it triggered all that
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: trauma again, and I would I would become more and
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: more depressed, and more and more anxious, and more and
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: more go more and more into self loathing. So I went.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I went back to college my sophomore year, and there
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: was a guy that I'd known my freshman year, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I liked him a lot, and I think I I
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: think I overwhelmed him because I was so so psychologically
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: and emotionally needy that I needed to get so close
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: to people like almost. I was like a cling on.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I was like a Stage four. My daughter would go
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: a Stage four klingon because I felt if I could
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: hold on, I could. I could. I could hold on,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: you know, because I had nothing in myself to hold
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: on to. And this guy, it overwhelmed him, and he
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: up in quick college. I left, and that so devastated
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: me that I decided that I just I didn't need
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: to live anymore. And I took a bottle of valion
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: and lay down on my dorm bed to die. And
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I was just lying there and then I heard a
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: voice and it said, pick up the phone, call somebody,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: because if you die, you're going to hell and that's
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: not my plan for you. I'm like, what what is that?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: And I thought I really have snapped, So I did.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I picked up the phone, called someone, and from there
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I don't remember anything until I woke up in the
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: hospital with pulling tubes out of my throat and kicking
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: and screaming and trying to hit nurses. And that threw
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: me into the mental health system that was in New York.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: So New York be trying to commit suicide, then you
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: are sent into the system. So I I and around
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that time and it was about a month of time
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: that happened. Another thing happened was it was a mitlewoman
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: on campus who'll preached the gospel to me, who it
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: just really picked me off. She came over and started
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: preaching the gospel, and the way she opened it up
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: was she said, do you know that God loves you
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: and has a wonderful plan for your life? Well that
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: just pissed me off because my life was my life
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: was in shreds and she's all smighly and nice and
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: telling me the good news. I'm thinking there isn't any
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: good news, but she preached the Gospel to me, and
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I I just I got up finally and I just ran,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: you know, because I couldn't. I couldn't bear to hear it.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: It was it was it was horrible to hear it.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: And that's common. That's that's common for a lot of
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: schizophrenicsse they don't want to hear anything about the Gospel
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: or Jesus or anything like that. They just they'll run.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also kind of common for me as well,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: because I don't like religion or any kind of beliefs
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: system ever being shoved down my throat. I don't ever
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: like it. I don't want it, and I will immediately
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: walk away from somebody that's trying to shove religion and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Jesus down my throat. Like and I have no problem
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: with people that God and religion and Christianity has helped
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: them and made them a better person. I mean, I
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: just told the story of me basically rebuking these entities
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: by the name of Jesus Christ.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Right, But.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: When when people are like you know, preaching to me
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: or like you know, using or like using God and
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: all that, like I just don't have anything to do
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: with him, and I don't want to have I don't
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: want anything to do with that.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Like you especially, don't do it with schizophrenics because you'll
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: lose them right away. They'll be they'll be going faster. Thing.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Well, when I thought, you know, Roder, I felt the
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: same way you did. It's like you, who are you
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: to come tell me this? Who are you to come
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: tell me about this good life I'm going to have
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: and about this God that that loves me when my
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: life is in it's in the tank. And so I
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I ran from her. I did not. I
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: did not want to hear it. And I went back
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: to my dorm room and was thinking about what she
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: told me, and I turned on I Used to Love Santana,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: and I turned on the song Evil Ways and started
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: playing here you got to change your evil ways, baby,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: and it hit me I had to make a change.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And I believed just I mean, my belief filipped and
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I believe Jesus really was alive, he loved me. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: mean it just the thoughts just came today and I
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: believed it, and I thought, Okay, maybe this is it,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is my out, Maybe this is the way
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I have to go. So I did call her up.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I accepted christ, became a Christian, and nothing nothing changed.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: And so at that time I was I was smoking
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of potton. And you talked earlier about marijuana.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I think I think marijuana is an open door toward schizophrenia.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: There's there's some statistics out that are saying that that
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: there are trenious amount of young men who smoke pot
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and then become schizophrenic, and they don't know what that
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: connection is. And I think it's a spiritual you open
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that door. So I I was smoking pot one day,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: lying in my dorm room, listening to I don't know
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Van Morrison or somebody, and I began to hallucinate and
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I got this picture in my mind of this big,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: this big wooden door, this great, big wooden door, and
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: it was kind of sort of calling to me, and
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, I was so stoked. I thought, oh,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: maybe it's a portal. And I'd done that acid, I'd
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: walk through portals while I was on acid. My girlfriend
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I used to go through portals regularly, so I thought, well,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: it's a portal, so there's something fun on the other side.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: So in my mind. I opened that door and I
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: walked in, and then I shut the door behind me.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And the space that I went into was kind of
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: a kind of a gray white space. It was nothing.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: There was that. It was an emptiness, It was a void.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And as soon as I shut the door, the voices
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: started and they began to mock me. And there were
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: four of them, and they were they were located literally too,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: kind of two in front of me and two behind me,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and they began to mock me, and they would say, oh,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: look at her, she's so crazy. And then they would say, Oh,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: she's not crazy, she's just nuts. And then they would say, oh,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: don't pick on her. She's such a she's such a
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: waste of a human being. And they would go on,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: and the voices went on and on and on.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: But not only did what did you think they were?
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know. I was so high. I thought, oh,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: this is just part like of a hallucination or something.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: But the problem was when I came down, writer, I
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: was in a My mind was in a different dimension.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain that, but it was
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: in another world. So my body was in this world,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: my mind was somewhere else. My mind was captured by
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: these voices and by their presence. And they did have
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: a presence, and there was an oppression that came with them,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: and there was nothing pleasant about it. And in that world,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: and that been mentioned, there was no peace, there was
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: no love, there was nothing good, nothing. It was a negativity, yeah, negativity.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It was a literal hell. And they they talked to
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: me constantly. They would talk so loud sometimes like if
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: I went to the student union, I couldn't hear the
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: people around me because they were so loud. They would
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: just scream at me and torment me. So I ended
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: up in the midst of all this, ended up in
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: the mental health system with the psychiatrist got my diagnosis
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: of paranoid SCHIZOPHREENI you got my drugs, which is all
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: they had. The diagnosis was I tell Jerry this despair
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: and drugs they give you despair. There's no hope, there's
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: no change, You're never coming out, and they give you
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: the drugs.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: So now, what did these sorry I don't mean to
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: interrupt you. What did these voices sound like? Were these
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: voices did they sound like your own voice or were
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: they different? Or did they feel like that they were
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: external to you, did they feel like that they were
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: in your head? And what did they sound like?
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: There were three that sounded like males and one that
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: sounded like a woman. They didn't at first sound like me.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I could differentiate male from female. They sounded like they
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: sounded like they were echoing in my head, but I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: could feel them around me. They were positioned like I said, too,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: in front, two behind. That's how I felt them. That's
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: how I experienced them. But as I got on the drugs,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: and the drugs kind of sunk in and got hold
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of me, they became They morphed more into my thoughts.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: So instead of them screaming at me, it was like
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: me screaming at me, saying, you're worthless, nobody wants you,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: nobody loves you. You need to die. You know, there's
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: no reason for you to live. There's nothing good. You're
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: never coming out of this, You're never going to be free.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And it was like it was like being thrown into
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: a hole. You know, it was about two and fifty
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: feet deep and there was nobody at the top, and
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: there was no way to get out. I was just
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: in this hell. So I tried to live in the world.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: So you try to live in the real world, but
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: but your mind is in this other dimension. So in
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: the real world, you go through the motions, you say
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: what you think you're supposed to say. I didn't tell
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: my friends and I heard voices because I thought they
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: would think I was crazy, and I knew I was crazy,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: so I didn't tell them that. I just told him
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I wasn't hear anymore, and they said, Okay, what do
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: you mean You're not hear any more. I say, I'm
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: not hearing anyone, not here physically, I'm I'm somewhere else.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: And they did didn't understand that. I understood it because
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I lived in two worlds and they were two very
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: very different worlds. But I never felt peace. It was
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: it was twenty four to seven anxiety, depression, fear, paranoia,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and I was convinced somebody was coming to take me away,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: and these voices convinced me that I had done something
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: that was so bad that I needed to be punished.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Now, once they moved in your head, Judy, did you
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: think that was you or did you still know it
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: was them? Because what happened to you is opposite of
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: what usually happens. Usually they start in the head, and
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: as they get stronger, then they'll move out. You know
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: that yours was reversed. But did you see that's what's
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: so devastating about them because they sound just like your
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Your thoughts right there, weren't any difference than your thoughts,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: only they're telling you all this rotten stuff that it
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: doesn't match with your intention for your intention for yourself.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I thought, Jerry that from doing all the drugs and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: looking back over what had happened after all the acid
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I did, and realizing that I was breaking down, you know,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I was breaking down emotionally. I thought that I had
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: shattered my mind and these voices were parts of those
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: shattered pieces. Okay, that we're trying to put me back together.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And I spent hours obsessing on how was I going
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to put these shattered pieces back together?
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: So there was just.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: One one knee.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Several prisoners I worked with, they asked the voices, who
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: are you? What are you? And they would they would respond,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: the voices would say, we are you. So they want
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: you to think that those are your own thoughts. You
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: know that that you are the one who's crazy, and
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: that there's not anything external happening to you. You know,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's your brain is broken, your mind is broken,
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: and that those those thoughts are yours. And you know, unfortunately,
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: from the time we're born, we believe that every thought
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: that comes into our minds belongs to us. That's far
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: from true. Manuel Swedenborg says, none of your thoughts of yours.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: They either come in from heaven or they come in
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: from hell. You are the chooser. You pick which ones
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: you were going to follow.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Well in these in these voices, and then as they
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: became more of my own voices. And I think it's
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: because the drugs, like you said, it tamps down the intensity,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: or I won't say the intensity, it tamps down the volume.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: The intensity is still the same. And it got me
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: into this mindset where everything was negative. Life was negative.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I was negative, college was negative. But none of my
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: friends loved me enough. Nothing nothing was good.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: And Judy, what was your experience with the psychiatrists who
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: gave you those drugs. Did they give you any personal
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: attention that they talk to you or try to find
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: out what was going on with you, or try to
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: find out how you were feeling or what you were doing.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, did they spend any time with you at all.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I saw the psychiatrist every two weeks for half an hour.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: We chat a little bit, how you do and I
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: tell me about the same And he would check on
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: my drugs see if they needed to go up or
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: to go down. And that was it. There was no counseling,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: there was no therapy, there was no nothing. He told
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: me that I had a chemical balance, my brain was
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: broken and it was forever. It was absolute forever.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: And how'd you feel about that message?
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it's it's devastating, yeah, because well, because you believe
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: your life is over. So the conflict then becomes why
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: am I alive? You know, if if there's no hope,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: if there's no future, is what is the point? Is
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: the point to spend the rest of my life fighting this?
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: And like you were saying, Jerry, you know, when they
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: get bad, when the voices get bad, you get so
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: exhausted the battle, the battle is so draining. And I
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: learned that, or I came to believe that there were
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: different levels in this hell that I was in. I
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: was on I guess at top level, but I could
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: see I could be pushed lower, I could be pushed
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: to the point where I'd be totally insane, or I
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: could be pushed to the point where I'd be catatonic,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: or it could be pushed to whatever point they want
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: to push me to. It was like always like standing
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: over a cliff, at the edge of the cliff and
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: knowing anytime you could be pushed over. So when those
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: voices in that presence and that oppression is on you
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: so heavy, you you spend all your energy trying to
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: maintain what little is left of you because your identity
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: is gone. You are nothing. You know, your your life
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: is gone, your relationships are gone. I mean I had
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: relatelationships with people, but I couldn't connect with anybody.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: I remember Sherry Swening, my co author, saying that she
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: ran into that same kind of phenomena where she felt
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: like she was on the fence and that if she
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: went over that it would be all over, and the
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: voices were telling her just let go, just you know,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: let go fall over the fence. They'll take care of you.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: You won't have to worry about anything, they'll feed you,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: you'll be in a mental hospital, you won't have to
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: worry about anything. Just just let go and fall over.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: So she talked about the same kind of battle.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're always you're always looking her on that fence,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: so you're always looking over that cliff, and you don't
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: know what day you're going to go to the next
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: level and what that next level is going to be.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: And they're always pushing you. And when it becomes so
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: much your own thoughts, you begin a battle in your
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: head with yourself. Think, yeah, it's the voices. But the
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: battle begins and you begin to fight with what's left
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: of you, and they beat you down because I had
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: four of them, So what chance did I have to
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: win a fight?
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Like you're battling against yourself and instead of having an
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: enemy that you can see that well, these are these
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: are entities as your demons. These are not me, you know.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: But when you're battling against yourself, I mean, that's that's devastating.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: That's that's like a almost You.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Do it twenty five hours a day. So like I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: would wake up in the morning and the battle would start,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I would think, oh, on a piece of crap, I
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: am I can't get through the day. I've got nothing,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: I'm worth nothing, nobody wants me. Why do I bother
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you leave my dorm room.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: And it would start like that, and you'd have to
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: fight that even just to get dressed. What is what
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: is the reason to get There's no reason to addressed.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Go back in bed, crawl into a wall and stay there,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: don't ever come out, don't eat die. And the message
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: was basically die. And I knew that at some point
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I was going to die, either somehow they would arrange
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: killing me or I would arrange killing me. But I
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: knew that my end was going to be death. But
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: it was a matter of how long could I fight?
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: How long could I hold out for? You know, So
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: during the day, I'd get up, I'd go I'd try
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: to go to classes, I'd sit, I was you know,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: I couldn't read books because I couldn't concentrate. You're in
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: a mental freeze. If you've ever been at a point
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: in your life where you're really oppressed mentally, you get
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: in that mental freeze and you're stock. You're paralyzed mentally,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: You're paralyzed emotionally, and you're also a lot of times
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: paralyzed physically, so that moving is very very hard. Thinking
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: is impossible. You can't think for yourself. All you can
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: do is fight, So your life becomes this constant fight,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: and it's going on in your head. You're trying to
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: live in the real world and talk to people, and
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: so you know, people are watching you go through this
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: flipping from one world to the other, and people kind
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: of they kind of drift away. I had friends, but
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: they kind of emotionally just they don't want to get
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: too close because they never knew what I was going
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: to do or say. I mean, I at one point
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: painted black bars on my window in my dorm and
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: on my door, and my roommate said, why are you
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: doing that. I said, because I'm in prison and I
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: need to see my prison. I need to see it.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: It's got to be visible. And she's like, oh, okay.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: I mean I would do things like that and she'd
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: be like okay, and she'd leave the room and be
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: gone for as long as she could be gone. So
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: you lose your connection with everything and everybody, and you're
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: battling yourself twenty four hours a day. And twilight was
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the worst. Jerry, you mentioned about the darkness that when
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: twilight comes, I allowed her what it is. But it's
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: something about the encroaching darkness of night, because as you're
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: living in darkness, so to add another lay of darkness to.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: That's another pattern.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would sit and drink bottles of wine at
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: night just to be able to get through twilight. You know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: that was the only way I could get through it.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: It was so unbearable to see the darkness coming. So,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: you know. And then after a while, after you've been
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: on the drugs a while, then you go into the
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: stage of going through schizophrenia, and you go you go
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: through and I'm working on a book, another book right
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: now about this. You go through what I what I
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: would call kind of the adultrums, where you are drugged out,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: you're in the battle, you're exhausted, you're going nowhere, and
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: you're waiting for something to happen, a crisis or an
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: accident or something. Because you don't know what's going to happen.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: You're no longer engineering your own life, you're no longer
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: in charge of where you're going or what you doing,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: because you're in a constant state of reaction. It's like
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: being on a twenty four hour hypervigilance journey every day.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: You know, if you've ever been in a panic attack
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: where you're so hyper vigilant, it's like that twenty four
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: hours a day. And I was in that state for
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: four years, and I to this day, I have problems
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: with my nervous system because I think, I so it
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: was so overcharged and over so overwarm for so long
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: that it broke or it's my nervous system. I wake
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: up the middle of the night and my nerves are trembling,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: you know, and I and it call also could be
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: from the drugs that I took. It could be a
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: part of that. I don't know. Nobody's ever been able
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: to explain it to me. Why I get this trembling,
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: especially in my chest, and so getting through that numbed
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: doubt part, you're waiting for something to happen. And then
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I reached a point where I came to the end
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: of the road. I flunked out of college. My father
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: called me home. I went home. He told me, stop
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: this game you're playing. I don't like it, and you
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: go back to school, You go wherever you want to go,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: don't come home until you figured this out, because I
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: don't want anything to do with this. So he basically
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: cut me off. So I went back up to college.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: I went and lived in the story house. I'd joined
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: a sorority, I'd done that because I thought that would
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: fix me. That didn't fix me. It just complicated my
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: life all the more because I had all these people
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: to deal with. And I went up and lived in
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: the sorority house, and I reached the end. I was unwelfare.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything. Basically just sit
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: in a chair. I didn't eat half the time because
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: that was it was too too complicated to make a meal.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I couldn't cope with making a meal. I lived. I
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: think that summer on white rice. I'd make a pot
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: of rice. And that's why I loved because I couldn't
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: deal with cooking. And I decided that summer. One day
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I decided, well, this is it. It's over. I'm done.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: So I one night waited for everybody to be quiet
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: in the sordihouse. I went outside. I had a little
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Volkswagen bug and I cut a hose outside and I
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: put it in my car, and you know, put it
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: in the in the exhaust and put it in the
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: car and got on, turned the car on and rolled
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: the window up as tight as I could, and waited
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: to die. And I had a friend. I had a
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: very good friend who lived in the sordyhouse that summer
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: and she said something was wrong when I left, and
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: she came running out and pulled me out of the
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: car and saved me. And it was like, I don't
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: know what I'm gonna do, but I'd heard about it
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: was a secretarial course in Syracuse. I was in a
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: stud of New York. There was a secretarial course and
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Syracuse you could take for four months. I thought, well,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I could get some skills, I could work, but I
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: needed something very rote, something I didn't have to think
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: about because I couldn't think. I couldn't My cognitive functions
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: were just so messed up. And so I went to
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: my psychiatrist and I told him, I called h I
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: tried to kill myself and I said, if you don't
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: help me, I'm going to kill myself because there's nothing,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: there's nothing left for me. My life is over. And
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: he said, well, what do you want? And I told
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: my I want to go to the secretarial school. It
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: was like four months or three months. It's really quick.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: And he said okay, and he got me on a
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: vocational program, rehab program to get the money to pay
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: for it. And I had that Christian friend of mine
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: who lived in Syracuse, and she knew some students at
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Syracuse University who were renting a house and they had
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: a room and they were willing to take me in
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: as a roommate. And so off I went to Syracuse
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: and got enrolled in that little school, and it was
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: just it was the same scenario. I could barely make
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: it to class. I couldn't. I was supposed to learn
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: shorthand I couldn't make any sense on shorthand. It was
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: it was garbled gook to me. So I couldn't do that.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I was living with five or six women. I couldn't.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I couldn't have relationship with them because I was so
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: much in this other world. And by that time I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: was severely depressed because I really felt my life had
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: come to an end, and I didn't know right now
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: how it was going to end. I sort of had
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: hope with the secretarial school, but at the same time
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: I sort of didn't. But it was like, I've got
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: to do something, I got to press on. So I decided,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: and my roommates didn't understand. I didn't tell them my diagnosis.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I just told them I had emotional problems, and I
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: think I made their life a misery to be honest
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: with you in a lot of ways, because I wouldn't participate,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be part. I was just hostile to everybody
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: This whole time, this whole time, you're hearing voices and
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: your stink is still thinking they're you.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still hearing all the negative stuff. You were
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: no good, you shouldn't live. You ruined yourself. Look at
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: all the horrible things you did. They're coming to get you.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: You know, the coming they're coming to get you. Think
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: was so intense that at the phone rang I would jump,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I think, this is it, this is the phone call.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what they were coming before, but I knew,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: I knew. I was convinced I need to be punished
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: I did. I did some really crazy stuff when I
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: was a teenager. I mean I did all kinds of
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: crazy stuff as a teenager. Things that they'd locked kids
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: up there, they equip't and j before we thought it
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: was fun.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: So they were like they were like playcating upon your
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: trauma from before, bringing up old past trauma that you
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: had been through before. The voices ever predict anything that
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: happened to you, like regardless if it was bad or not,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: because I believed that it was Patrick Dirk that was
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: on the show. Last time, me and Patrick and Jerry
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: we did a show together and he was talking about
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: how you can correct me if I'm wrong, Jerry. But
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I think that it was him that said that the
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: voices basically set up a drug deal for him to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: get more drugs.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: But I've heard prisoners have told me that over and
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: over again, especially with myth, that they would tell the
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: patient where where to be and when to be there,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: and then some stranger would show up with with drugs,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: and then I heard another another story was similar where
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: the voices told, you know, one guy to go to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: this one spot and another guy walked up and just
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: asking me, what do you want? You know. So it's
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: almost like they can possess two people and bring them
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: together to get them to use math, you know which
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: and I haven't heard it with any other drug than meth.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: You know. It seems like they they're pushing people to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: use math.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: But there was also a case that I had heard
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: about where a lady was hearing the voices and then
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: she was told to take off all of her clothes
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: and then run through traffic or something like that, and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: that she was going to be protected.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: You.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: I saw to an exorcist the other day. He said
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: that a lot of the people he works with who
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: are hearing voices, the voices tell them to get naked,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: to take off their all their clothes. That's a common
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: thing that they do well.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: And writer one thing they told me. I forgot to
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: tell you this. When I was in college, I was
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: up in an a lounge with my friend Jim and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend Franny, and Jim was one who'd gotten me
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: into LSD, and the voices told me to pick up
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: a big lamp and kill him. Said he's the one
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: that ruined your life. He ruined your life. He's the
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: one that did it to you. He didn't deserve to
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: live in. The lamp had a big you know, because
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: it was college stuff, so it was heavy, big metal bass.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: He said, pick it up, crush his skull until till
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: his brains smear out. And I was actually tempted to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: do that, but I had enough, I had enough sense
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: of right and wrong, I guess to be able to
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: go to shake it off, to say no to know
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: and walk out of the room. But it was very compelling?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Was this before you the voices started to tell you
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: to kill yourself? Because this is something that I've always
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: heard with like demonic possession, right, is that the entity
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: trying to get you to commit murder or like do crimes,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: or like kill somebody. And if they can't get you
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to do that, then it turns on you. Then they
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: turn on you and try and get you to kill yourself.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Is that Did this happen before it started saying you know,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: kill yourself, You're worthless, you're all that? Or what was
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the timeline there?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Well, the suicide attempts progressed through my life as my
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: identity and my sense of self were ruined by the trauma,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: and then my response to the trauma, which wasn't good.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: But and when I first went to the psychiatrist, the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: first thing he asked me are are you homos homicidal?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Or are you suicidal? That was his first question, which
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: are you? He wanted to know how much they had
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: to watch me because they were I had to go
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: before a panel of psychiatrists to decide whether I got
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: to go to stay where I was or whether they
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: need to institutionalize me. And that was that was one
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: of the big questions. The voices didn't tell me to
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: kill someone where. I didn't think about that until after
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the voices were in full gear, probably that first year
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: they told me to do that. I mean they told
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: me things like jump out the tense story window. You'll
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: be fine. You know, nothing will happen to you. You'll
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: just bounce, It'll be fine. I mean they tell me that,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: you know, if I ate something that my dorm was
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: going to blow up. They told me if I went
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: to the dining hall and ate dinner that a seven
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: forty seven was going to come and fly through the window.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: And that's how they'd keep me from going to eat.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: And that's part of how they controlled me, using fear
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: and predicting terrible things would happen or good things would
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: happen if they wanted to do something bad. So you know,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: they they they manipulated and managed me and to such
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: a degree as they were able.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: And I think they want to get people in prison
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: because it takes a lot of energy for them to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: keep tormenting you like that. I mean they have a
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: limited amount of energy also, But once you get thrown
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: in prison, that's a totally paranoid, nasty dark environment, and
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: there's so much violence and fear going on there that
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: they don't have to work there at all. It's it's
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: like it belongs to them, you know. And and again
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: my co author one time she was sending they were
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: doing reiki and sending reiki energy, positive energy into one
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: of the prisons. She said that one night when she
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: was doing that, this big black puff of smoke showed
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: up right in front of her and said, these people
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: are mine. You stay away, you know. So that's the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: second time I've heard something like that too. So I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: think they want to throw people in prison. It's like
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: a hell on earth, and as soon as you walk through
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: the doors, you can feel it. I mean you can
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: feel the atmosphere is very different.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: So so school I think too they want to push
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: everybody as far as they can push them. I mean,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: they tested me, will you kill somebody? Basically no, I
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do that, but I would commence I would try
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: to commit suicide, you know. So they test to see
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: what your what your limits were, and then keep pushing
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: you and pushing you a little further where you're weak,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: you know. They they literally groom you, you know, to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: some degree. And but you really think it's you. And
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: by the time I was in the middle of this,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: but by the time I would say two and a
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: half years in, everything about me was negative, everything about everybody.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I hated everybody, hated my family, I hated myself, hated
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: my roommates, I hated everybody. Everything was bad. There was
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: nothing good. They pull you into that, and that negativity
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: begins to shatter you. I mean you shatter you, shatter
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: to further degrees. And like when I was in Syracuse,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I decided, well, I'm gonna I decided I'd go commit myself.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe that will help, maybe something can help me. So
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: I went to the local inpatient place and knocked on
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: the door and got to talk to a psychiatrists and
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: told me I couldn't commit myself there for some reason.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I don't remember why. And he
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: said he couldn't. I said, well, can't you help me?
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: He said, no, I really can't because you're not in here.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: And he talked to me this morning. He said, I'll
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: tell you what you can buy a couple of times
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: a week and we'll talk to you. And I started
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: doing that, and then he flipped me over to this
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: young guy who just got out of college, and I
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: began to see him, and at the same time, I
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: flunked out of secretarial school. But they set me up
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: in a job at the Syracuse Post Standard on the
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: copy desk, and I was typing computer code, which was
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: a good thing for me because it was easy to
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: learn that the code was very basic. Then it was
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: easy to learn, and it was wrote, so I was
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: doing it, wrote things I didn't really have to think.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: It was just wrote. And so I began to see
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: this counselor, and this counselor didn't I don't know what
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: he thought. He decided my problem was that I was
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: filled with hatred and bitterness and anger. And he told me,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: you know, if I would, if I would deal with
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: that stuff, I would get better. And I didn't know.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't know really what that meant. I mean, it
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: didn't make any sense to me because you know, the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: voices in my head, my own thoughts, and he's talking
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: about bitterness. It didn't compute. And then one day he
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: said to me, well, if you don't want to deal
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: with your problems, I'm not going to talk to you anymore.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: So he said, I'm going to walk out of the
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: room and you decide. He walked out of the room,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: and I thought, well, I got nothing to lose, I
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: might as well try this. So we started meeting, you know,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: three times a week, and he started dealing with my trauma.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: You started dealing with what had happened to me as
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: a kid. I mean, I'd been I was sexually blessed
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: when I was three years old. I was sexually molested
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: two times as a teenager, once by with my father's blessing.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: My father set me up in a car with one
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: of his friends one night when he was drunk. And
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: you know, the loss of my mother. So we started
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: going back to that trauma and opening up those wounds,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: and I spent I spent a couple of months, four
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: or five, maybe six months, just crying, getting all this
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: stuff out. And as I cried and I began, I
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: began to learn to forgive because this guy would say
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: to me, these your parents were just people. They were
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: messed up people. They weren't trying to destroy you. Because
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: I was convinced that my father and my mother purposely
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: destroyed me. I mean that's what I believed by them.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: It was all their fault. Everything was everybody else's fault,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: and he did me.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Did the sexual abuse come from your father?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: No, okay, you don't have to tell me.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: You don't have to tell me who. But I was
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: just curious because that's one of the things that a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people go through that end up in these
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: MK ultra style CIA mind control programs, is that they
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: are abused by a family member or a family member friend,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: and then they get later on, they get more abuses.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: It's like a priming thing for people. They search out
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: these people that have been abused whenever they were younger,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: so because they're more easily mind fractured in their consciousness
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: split so that they could carry out the government's plans
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: and the things that they want to use them for.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some question about, well what happened. I remember
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: writer being about seven years old and my mother telling
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: me that there was some man that wanted to buy me. Now,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: why a mother would tell her seven year old there
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: was a man who wanted to buy me and my sister.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: My sister was two years older, And I remember that
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: it didn't really scare me, but my mother, my mother
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: had been an orphan. Her mother was killed in a
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: car accident when she was nine. Her dad was probably
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: disabled and blind, and he was in a state hospital,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: so she was an orphan. She'd been passed around the family,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: so she had some crazy ideas, superstitions. I don't know
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: where she got him, and I never understood what that
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: was about. Somebody wanted to buy me. And the funny
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: thing about being sexually molested at three was I didn't
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: know it had been until I was living in New
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: York City later in life, and I was sitting one
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: night just praying, and in my mind up bubbled this
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: picture of me three years old in the field across
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: the street that I lived in, and this man coming
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: to me and sexually blesting me. And I thought, am
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: I making this up? So I called my mother and
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: I said, what the heck happened to me when I
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: was three? And she said, who told you? I said,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: nobody told me. I remembered, And I said to her,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: why didn't you do something? And she couldn't. She couldn't answer,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: She couldn't answer why she wouldn't talk about it, you know,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: So I I had repressed all that. I wondered all
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: my life why I didn't like people touching me. People
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: would come to hug me. I go to church and
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: you know church and like, hey, how you doing big hugging.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, in a way, no, I never understood that
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: until that day. Then I understood. You know, so they
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: had played off all that trauma. So as I worked
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: with this counselor, he started getting down into that trauma
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: and and helping me take a look at it and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: deal with it and cry and express my horror at
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: all the things that happened. And there were there were
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: many other things that happened. When I was seventeen, I
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: was involved with that with a guy who was in
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: organized crime, and he had tried to strangle me one
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: night when we were drunk, and I and I, you know,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: I kind of stuck around with him after that. That's
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: how crazy I was at that point, because I didn't
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: understand at seventeen, I didn't understand the Nay, it was excitement,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: you know, somebody tries to strangle you and I stayed
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: with him. You know, It's like kind of craziness is that?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: So I had been shaped and groomed so much as
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: a young person to be drawn to that edge. It
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: was it was a pole, always a poll to that edge.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: So as I was working with dis coounsel and I
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: started getting this stuff out right, I started to almost
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: feel human, and there's this load, this burden of resent
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: and bitterness and pain and trauma was lifting. I began
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: to feel like me again. I began to feel like
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: a person, and hope returned. But still there was the
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: negative stuff going on, going on going on, and but
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: I was getting I was getting better. They had less
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: of an influence. They could come, but they couldn't stay
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: all the time anymore because it was a part of
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: me that was getting healthy and a part of me
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: that was regaining I guess my identity and part of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: me that was repairing was becoming healthy. And I was
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: still at that point on the drugs, and they still
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: had me a little bit zoned out.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: So it's still at this point you you thought the
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: voices were you.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was sure that they were me. I
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: was sure that it was that it was me. That
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: I was negative, that I was messed up, and I
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: just figured I was gonna I was gonna have to
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: look with messed up me. But there was this other
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: part that was getting healthy. So now there was kind
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: of a split. I was almost like two people. I was,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: there's really sick person, and I was this part that
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: was getting getting healed by getting getting rid of this trauma.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: So I was going. I was going to this charismatic
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Methodist church. And one day I went to church and
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: there was this this black evangelists, Evelyn Cornark from Philadelphia
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: there and she talked. I don't remember what she said.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what she said, but I was
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: sitting there thinking, you know, I think I think she
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: could help me. It was something she said that made
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: me think she help me. So I went home and
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: I called her to the elders and I said, could
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I talk to her? Because she was staying with the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: elders and I knew the elders pretty well, and they said, sure,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: come on over. So I went over and so she said,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: you know, how can I help with what's going on?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: So I started telling her about the voices in this
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: whole story, and she listened to it only for a
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: couple of minutes, and then she just said, you just stop.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: Stop.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: She said, I'll tell you what you're dealing with. And
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I said, what she said, You're dealing with demons. I'm
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: like demons because I was so used to this being.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: It was me.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: It was all me. And she said, you're dealing with demons,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: and she says, I'll tell you how to win this battle.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: And I'm like okay. And she gave me a little
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: book called the Jesus Pocket Promise Book, which is just
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: a bunch of scriptures divided into different topics. And so
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: she said, you know what's your biggest problem. We fear.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: That constant fear and paranoia. That was big. It was,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: that was all the time. Fear lived in me, like
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: like it owned me. And she said, okay, so when
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: this comes over you and you're overwhelmed, take your little
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: book it out and then you go to the section
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: on fear and you read the scriptures out loud about fear,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: and you say, Satan, I belonged to Jesus. You don't
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: have any right in my life. God's word says blah
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. So in Jesus' name, I command
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: you to go because you can't touch me. And she
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: had me the book and that was kind of the
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: end of the conversation, and I walked away going, wow, okay,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: you know, like it's just so it's just so easy
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like this mass bullet.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: And how did you react when she told you they
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: were demons?
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I read the Bible enough to know the demons existed.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: I knew the demons and scripture made people crazy.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: I knew you didn't know what they were, how they operated.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just knew that Jesus encountered I don't know what,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: sixteen eighteen twenty people in the Bible, and he cast
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: out demons. I knew he did that. I was a
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: little bit horrified. The demons had had control over my life.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what part, what part of my thinking
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: was me or what could be. Then I was hopeful
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: that maybe there was some truth in this, But to
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: be honest with you, I didn't really believe it. I
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: was like, this is too easy, it's too simple. It's
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: it isn't going to work. I mean, I really, But
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I took the little book. So I went to work.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was that day or soon
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: after with my little book, and I worked on the
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: copy desk and I was sitting there not soon after
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: that or soon after that, and the paranoia and the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: fear came over. And when I come over, it just
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: it would paralyze my mind. I just be like this
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: in terror and absolute terror. So I grabbed my little
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: book and I ran to the lady's room and locked
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: myself in a booth, make sure there was nobody else
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: in that room, and I started reading. I opened up
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: to the fear part where it says, God, it's not
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: giving me a spirit of fear, but I've loved power
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: and to sound mind. And I read it a couple
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: of times and then I said, you know you don't
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: own me. I belong to Jesus. You can't touch me.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: You've got to go, so get out of here now,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: in Jesus' name, And like that, it left. It left,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: the presence left, the mind numbing paralysis left, the presence,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: that overwhelming, oppressive presence left, and I was clear for
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: the first time in four years. I was clear. The
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: weirdest thing was that I was normal. It wasn't broken,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: you know, not like I felt that i'd been. And
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: I think that when you're in that status schizophrenia, they
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: they give you a picture of yourself. They show you
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: who who they want you to think you are. I
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: thought I was irreparable. I thought it was unfixable. I
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: thought there was nothing left of me. I thought my
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: identity and my soul and my spirit and my emotions
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: had been completely shattered. So when that presence or those
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: presents left and I realized I'm me, I felt like
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: me again, just like you wake up in the morning
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: and on a good day and you're like, wow, it's
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: good day, and I feel good and I'm glad to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: be me. There was never a day like that when
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: I was under thereson whatever.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: At what point did you realize that they weren't you,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: that they were demons, they were some other force.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: I realized it on that day when I told them
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: to go and they went.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: Then it was like, this isn't me, This isn't me, okay.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: I also and I also realized later Jerry, that I
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: had been put on a trajectory toward healing without realizing
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: it by first dealing with the trauma, dealing with unforgiveness.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Unforgiveness is food for these things, and I was loaded
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: with it. And when I see people with unforgiveness in
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: their life, there's always a darkness about them. I could
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: see it, can see it on them. Unforgiveness is like
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: it's like handing them candy to eat. They love it.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: As I looked back, I realized, Okay, I went through
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: the celing of trauma. I went through forgiveness. I wasn't
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: holding grudges against anybody, and I even forgave myself. And
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: and then I met her, and she gave me that
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: element of dealing with the spiritual end of it, because
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: there's the trauma end, there's emotional end there, and then
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: there's the cognitive part, and then there's the mnemonic part.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: So you've got all these things working. There's more than
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: just one thing to heal, you know. And so that
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: day I was clear. Well. Then then the battle began,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: because then they began to test me. And I really
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: believe that I could make them go with the word
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: of God. And so I went through a three or
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: four month battle where I'd be all clear, and all
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: of a sudden boom, they were back, and I was
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: back in that paralysis, and I was back in that
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: hyper vigil and said that ugly, ugly, ugly hell. And
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: I would pull that book out again and I would
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: read and I would tell him the name of Jesus Christ,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: you have to go. You have no power, no authority
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: over me, I will not tolerate you, and boom, they
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: would go like that. I mean they would go instantly,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: and I'd be like wow. And then I realized, Okay,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: I've found my answer. I can get my life back.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: And so I began to battle with with with real determination,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: because I decided I'm not giving up my life for them.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not giving it up. I'm not gonna
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: have me. And so I thought through that and I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: was still then on the drugs, and the counselor said, well,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: he could see I was doing better. I never talked
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: him about the voices because you just don't. You don't
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: talk about that stuff. You don't want to set people
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: off and get them thinking whatever they're going to think. Yeah,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: but he told me it was time to get off
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: the drugs. Well, then panic set in because I thought, well,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: what if we really this is all working, Because now
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: the drugs are working, this is maybe this is you know.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: I began to doubt and I got very I got
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: very confused. But I thought, you know what, I've gone
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: this far. I'll take I'll take the resk, I'll do it.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: And so I stopped the drugs. I said, what do
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: I do to just stop them. And I went through withdrawal,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: which was a nightmare, you know, of shakes and sweating
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: and severe fear and paranoia. Was a couple of days
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: of that. I don't remember how long it was. This
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: a couple of days, and I got off them and
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: then I woke up. It was eastern morning, and I
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: woke up that morning and got out of bed and
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: I sat them round of my bed and I realized
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: drugs were out of my system. The withdrawal, it was over,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: and my head was clear, and I realized I was back.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: It was back, you know, And that's that was the
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: getting out. But then there's there is the getting over
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: and right you probably understand this there after four years
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: of being beat into a hole like that, then you've
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: got to change your thinking patterns. I had to rebuild
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: my mind. I had to completely rewire my mind. And
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: what I did to do it was I read Scripture
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: two to three to four hours a day and down
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: tried to find everything positive in it that I could.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: That was the opposite of where I believed. And I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: began to change my belief system and I began to
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: rewire my brain. And I did that over a period
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: of years. You know, I did that. I just kept
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: working at it and working at it and working at it.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: And that after, you know, I was through that. I
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: got my mind renewed, and then it was over. It
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: was over, and it was done, and I was free,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: and that was That was well almost fifty years ago.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Do you have any doubt in your mind at all
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: that these entities, these voices were demons, we're negative entities.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: No, because I still you know, as a Christian, and
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know right or how it is for you
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: in your world, what you deal with, but but there's
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: always that battle in our thoughts.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they hit everyone, they hit.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: Everybody, and so I still get hit with negative stuff,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: but it's not it's not that overwhelming schizophrenic gorbacause it's
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: the same thing writer deals with, or you deal with
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: the negative stuff, and that's just the battle I think
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: of our lives, because they're working on everybody. They're working everybody,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: they're working on our government, they're working in education, they're
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: working everywhere. So I still, you know, I still deal
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: with that. But I knew, and I knew that that
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: it was demonic. I didn't fully understand it when I
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: was twenty five. I couldn't have explained it to you
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: the way I do today because I didn't know enough
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: about the spiritual realm. But I went on to have
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: many spiritual experience as my husband and I. Our first
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: house we bought was haunted. We had a we had
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: a black creature with wings in our house, our house
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: filled with sulfur, we had, we had all kinds, all
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: kinds of weird things happened. And my daughter had nine
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: imagining friends have turned out to be demons that we
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: laid hands on her and prayed and command them to go.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: And the next day she woke up didn't even remember
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: she ever had them. They were completely taken out of
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: her life. And I realized now they were taken out
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: because if she remembered that she had them, she'd probably
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: invite them back in because she didn't think they were bad.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: We knew, so I, you know, God began to confirm
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: this whole demonic realm to me and took me into
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: this uh these experiences where I could see the demonic.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: I could see that realm and I and I learned
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: how to how to deal with it, and I work
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: with people now. I don't do deliverance.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not a big fan of deliverance per se, but
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I but I work with especially women now, who have
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: some form of darkness in their life, something that's taken over,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: and they're not schizophrenic. I think she Chizophrenics are extremely
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: hard to deal with because you can't convince them it's
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: not them. Most people, I've met many people that are
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: mentally ill, whether they're borderline personality or bipolar, very hard
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: to convince them it's anything but them. The psychiatric mafia
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: is very, very, very good at convincing people that they're
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: irratree villally broken. And these people, by the time they've
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: been in the system for a year or two, they
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: believe it. They believe it hardly. So I thought, yeah,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, help people come out. I'll help people
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: ask its finny, most I don't. I don't know, Jerry,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: how many have you seen him come out?
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: Maybe twenty or so? Yeah, very hard, it's possible. It's
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: they're they're difficult, Yeah, they're they're they're some of the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: most difficult patients that I work with.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing about all this is that there's like,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: not only are you dealing with like the criticisms of
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: your own internal monologue like what we're talking about, but
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: you're also dealing with other people's negative thoughts and their
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: labels and them coming at you as well. And then
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: there's also this thing. I don't know how you guys
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: feel about it, but there's a there's a disorder. I
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: think that it's called I think the proper term is
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: fully a do or fully a do.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: Where two people go nuts at the same time, that.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly, but one of them didn't have that delusion before,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: so it's almost like you share this delusion together. So
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: if you were to lock up like a sane person
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: into a psychiatric facility and they weren't insane, sort of
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: like what happened with Patrick Dirk that we had on before,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: where he was saying, going into the prison system, the
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: psychiatric facility around all of these insane people that have
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: all these disorders, you only have a few options. You
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: either keep your mental sanity, which requires a lot of fortitude,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: exactly like you have Judy. You have to have that
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: mental defense, that mental fortitude, or you slowly become insane
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: yourself because you're around insane people. Twenty four seven.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 3: You know, I had one fella who told me his
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: mother was schizophrenic and he was fairly intelligent, he was
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: doing well in schoold and stuff. He said he had
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: to move away from her because he started hearing her
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: voices also.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: So it's something along the lines. It kind of goes
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: back to that saying you know, you are what you eat,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: You are who you surround yourself with. You know, if
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: you surround yourself with evil and bad attention, people that
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: are doing crime, then you have to have a built
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: in defense mechanism to not go along with the crowd.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: It's like the hundredth monkey effect, right, what we all
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: kind of grew up hearing from our parents. Well a
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: lot of us was like, well if your friend jumped
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: off of a bridge, which you also jump off of
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: the bridge. You know, that's kind of like what it's like.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: And the people in the scenarios and the situations and
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: the environment that you surround yourself with ends up shaping
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: and molding you as a person.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, writer, one really good thing that came
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: out of this for me was I that I learned
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: without a doubt who I was and my worth and
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: my value, And I learned how easy like you're saying
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: it is to absorb what's around you, especially if you're
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: an EmPATH. I learned to be able to block that.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: But I can read people walk into a room. I
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: can tell you sometimes what their problem is. I can
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: tell you what they're up to because I can feel it.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: This the garbage on them. I can see the garbage
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: on him. I recently went to a meeting and with
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people that I meet with once a week,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: and this guy came in and he was a nice
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: looking guy in his probably late forties, and he had
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: on he was nice pair of jeans, and he had
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: one of those jackets that's that you wear up to
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: bicycling and that has yellow stripes, and he looked like
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: a million bucks. They walked in the room and I
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: looked at him and I could see he had come
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: in that room to take over, to gain power over
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: this group, and to gain authority and leadership. It was
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: written all over and I thought, oh, this is going
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: to be fun to watch. And he sat two over
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: for me, and the group met and talked, and the
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: first thing he did was telling an outrageous story about
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: how he'd been raised from the dead. I'm sitting there going, Okay,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: this is this is going to be good. And then
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: when the group started talking, he jumped in and he
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: began to take over, and I thought, this is gon
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: be interesting to see how the men in this group
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: deal with somebody that because he came in all power
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: it was, it was oozing from him. So one of
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: the good things that havn't been through this is I
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: can see that on people now. It's it's easy to
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: see it, and and I learned to not absorb. So
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: I'm able to be around people who are into whatever
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: they're into, whatever darkness they're into, and I don't have
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: to absorb it. It took me years, though to learn that.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: It took me years.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: That's a superpower. That's a superpower, Judy. Not a lot
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: of people are able to do that. They end up
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: getting into their the situation.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: And I need that for the work that I do,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: and I think it's I think it's a gift because
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: I deal with with women with problems and women with trauma,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: and it'd be very easy to get caught up in
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: that and and be pulled into it and be pulled
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: down by it. But I'm able to keep myself separate
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: and maintain myself and people tell me it's interesting. People
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: tell me when you walk in a room and people
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: look at you, they know that you you have figured
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: out who you are. You know who you are, and
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: you're you're not somebody to mess with. And I don't
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: give off I don't think I give off a vibe.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: But it's what I learned how to how to possess
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: myself and not allow anything in because there's always something
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: coming to intrude a person, a spirit and a demon.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: There's our society is pressing in on us now on
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: so many levels. And I've learned to hold hold that.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: I guess it's a boundary, you know, and people sense
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: that about me, that I have this boundary and they
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: don't understand it. The things bounce off me. But that's
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: I guess the benefit. Having been a schizophrenic.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: Develop I've had to develop that too with what I
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: did working in the prison, working in psych hospitals, working
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: doing psyche crisis. You know, I had to develop that
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: same thing. It's like a fortress that you know, you
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: look out of to the to see the insanity that's
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: going on out there and then figure out what you
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: can do about it. But you can't let it get
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: to you because it will.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: That's a really rare thing, though, Like I'm willing to
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: bet if people were to run an experiment, and this
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: is just an example. I'm going to use drugs in
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: this example, but you could substitute drugs for anything. I'll
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: say that you lived in a house with nothing but
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: drug users. You weren't a drug user. It doesn't matter
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: what the drug is. It could be weird, it could
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: be honesty, it could be mushrooms, whatever. And you lived
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: in a house with nothing but drug users, but you
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: were straight edge, you didn't use drugs. How long is
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: it going to be for a weak person, a weak
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: minded person? And that that's not meaning derogatory toward anyone,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: but it seems like at some point, if you live
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: with these people for long enough, all of these drug addicts,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: that you're going to have a moment of weakness. You're
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: going to break down at some point and you are
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: going to start using those drugs.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: That are you going to break away from there and
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: get out of there?
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: Exactly? Those are your only two options. It is to
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: fold and then start consuming the drugs, or get your
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: stuff out and leave.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: Well, and the weak are always tear down the stronger. Always,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: it always goes that way. I tried to teach my
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: kids that when they were younger. My youngest daughter loved
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: all the broken kids, so she'd bring home the broken
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: kids because she wanted to fix them. But those broken
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: kids would always turn on her, because broken people break
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: other people, you know, when they're when they're triggered, they
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: go off, they break other people. And she went through
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: with a couple of kids turning on her, and she
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: was devastated. And I said to her, the broken people
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: always break people. You can't save the broken people. They
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: need They need to save themselves, they need their There
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: are resources, but you can't invest your life with these
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: people because they're going at some point, they're going to
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: be hurting and they're gonna lash out of you because
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: you're there. They lash out of the thing clothes. It's
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: not that they're bad people, that's just how it works.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: And it took her many years to figure that out.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: I have to go and being lashed out, you know,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: by these broken people, because they will they will tear
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: down the ones around them.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And it takes a lot of mental strength to
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: overcome that. And I have My hat's off to you, Judy,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: because you dealt with that for a really long time.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: And that seem scenario that I just gave of the
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: of the drug addicts as like essentially a metaphor for
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: sort of like what you were going through. You were
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: constantly being nagged out, you were constantly being hey, and
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: you had to have the power to get over that.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: And that is very rare.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jerry just mentioned that he only knows of
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: twenty people that have beaten schizophrenia. I mean, how many
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: people have been reported to have schizophrenia. I feel like
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: that is a very very low number of people.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: It's very hard, I've learned. Jerry probably knows this as well.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: It's very hard to get people who are mentally ill
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: to do the work that it requires to get well.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: The other thing is this, most people have met that
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: mentally ill. At some point it becomes their identity and
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: they thrive in it to some degree, they live in it.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: They that's what that's what they are, becomes their whole identity.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: So if they give up that identity a lot of them,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: that I meant, they have to give up disability, which
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: is money. They've got it, They've got to go against
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: their counselor's the mental health system. They don't want to
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: go in and tell their mental health you know, people
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: that they've figured another way. Like I went back to
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: visit my psychiatrist ten twelve years after I was healed,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't tell. He asked me, well, how'd you
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: do it? I couldn't tell him because he would have
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: thought I was crazy. I can't say, well, I was
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: battling demons. How do you tell the psychiatrist's say so?
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: So people are mentally ill? How do you go against
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: that system? They get sucked into it, They become a
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: victim of it, and then they become it becomes their identity,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: and I find it very hard to convince them there's
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: another way. I know a woman in my you know,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: my social group who has depression problems and other problems,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: and when anybody tries to help her and explained to
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: her that yes, she could overcome, she says, her answer
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: is I'm too broke, and don't you understand I'm too broken?
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: And my answer is, well, how come you're so special?
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: What made you so special that you're so broken? I
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: was more broken than you were broken. I got up
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: and walked out of it. But she wants being broken
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: as a whole identity. She gets a new psychiatrist every
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: six months, she gets a new drug, she gets you know, training,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: she gets this, she gets her money. It's her life,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: and that's she's decided. That's her life. She's accepted it.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: I could never. I could not accept it. I wanted
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: something out of life. I wanted to be well. I
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: wanted to have a career. I wanted to have a family.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: I wasn't willing to give that up for nobody. And
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: that's why I thought, you know, because I knew that
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: I had things. I knew I had things to do.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: I knew that there was a job for me. I
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: didn't know what it was, but I knew there was
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: a purpose for my life.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: And what you're doing now, what you're doing now, is
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: part of that purpose.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it took me fifty years to figure all
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: this out and learn all these things about the spiritual realm.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: And when people come and talk about what's going on,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: and you know, people women come to me and say, well,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm kind of depressed, and I said, well,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: there's let me tell you about your depression. And I
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: can explain it to her in detail. You depressed, you
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: had a little bit of despondency, you got some self hatred,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: you have some self loathing, You've got this stat Just
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: how do you know, I said, because I've been there
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: and these demons, and Jerial probably just says his demon's
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: traveling groups. I call him the cousins. If you've got one,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: you've probably got five, maybe three or four. But you
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: don't have just one, because they come as groups and
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: they hit you from every side, so that when you
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: find someone who's depressed, they've been beat down from several
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: different angles. And but it's you know, it's taken me
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: a lifetime to learn all this, and I've studied spiritual healing,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: and I've studied you know, spiritual realm and spiritual warfare
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: and all this stuff. And that goes all the way
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: into Nephelin and goes into what's going on our society
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: now and how our society is being changed and the
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: thinking's being changed, and the warfare that's coming at us
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: from every level. I understand it, you know, I lived it.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: I see it.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's so clear to me. And when COVID
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: first came, you know, probably within I don't know, maybe
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: a month of when it really first hit. And then
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: they began to make plans of how they were going
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: to deal with it. And I said to my husband,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: I said, I can see what I can see what
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: they're doing. I can see what this is about. This
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: is about a slow destruction. First, A're gonna destroy small businesses,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: They're gonna destroy children, They're gonna destroy education, they're gonna
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: destroy business. They're gonna because I could see it, because
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: I know the spiritual one.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: I could see what they were doing, spiritual war.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's you know, that's the gift of being
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: having been a schizophrenic. You get you get that gift
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: and and in some ways, writer, to be honest with you,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't give up the experience for anything for what
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: I got, what I got in return for getting through.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: That, because it made you who you are.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, maybe who I am.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: Really quickly, before I let you guys go, I had
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: Raven and Top Lobster from the Nfflin Dust Squad on
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: my show, and they were talking about this gentleman name
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: Adrija Proharaj that would I think you were on their
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: show before Jerry. I don't know if you remember or not,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: but he was essentially putting like these tooth implants and people,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: you know, like the old school cavity fillings that are
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: like metal fillings. Yeah, he was putting them into people's teeth.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: And then these people were going around and hearing like
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: voices and picking up like radio signals, like through their teeth,
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: through the plant in their tooth. And I was like, well,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: could this not be like some kind of like to
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: induce to open up the door for hearing voices and
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: like schizophrenia. Could this not be like a part of that,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: like And this is proven in the Lucier Old Ball
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: from I Love Lucy. She literally stopped the Japanese insurgeons
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: because she had a metal tooth plant in her tooth,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: and she picked up radio transmissions and she relayed that
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: to the military, and the military went in and stopped
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: the Japanese insurgeons.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: I've heard it. I've heard of that when when they
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: turn up the power, the wattage high enough, a lot
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: of people will start hearing the radio frequency.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: So then so then the filling is a receiver.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah wow, Yeah, but the wattage has to go way
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 3: up but yeah, it'll happen. You know, radios. It's the
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: same thing, crystal. But yeah, they turned that Watta Joe
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: high enough you'll start hearing it.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: And I just thought that that was like so interesting
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: because we kind of started out the conversation here today
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: about and this was research that they had done, the
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: Nephelin dev Squad has done. I thought that I would
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: mention that really quickly because we were talking about in
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: the beginning, like how this stuff happens and the window
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: to it and how it's like induced. And I thought
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: maybe that that could be something for someone to look into, like,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: you know some schizophrenic patients, like how many of them
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: have like this metal dental implant and then and you know,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: because they don't do them anymore. You can't get a
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: metal implant anymore. It's all like the it's the white
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: like paste or whatever they call it. Yeah, the clear fillings.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 3: Well, like I was saying, the voices runs pecific patterns, Okay,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: if they're running that. If they don't run those patterns,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 3: then it's something else.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: No, Well, I'm sorry, No, I was just going to say,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: you know this, this idea of schizophrenian voices is in
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: the same wheelhouse as and this is hard to explain
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: to people, it's in the same wheelhouse as the Nephelin.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: It's all spiritual warfare nefhlin or spiritual warfare. Schizophrenia is
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: just one more leg of that, you know. It's like
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: one more arm of that octopus of what the what
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: the what the rulers of evil are doing. That's one
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: arm they throw out. The Nephlin is another arm. Big
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: putting us up, that's another arm. There's many many arms
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: coming at us. And I'm not sure people understand that.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: It's hard sometimes to make that connection from schizophrenia as
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: being part of this whole big war fear that's going
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: on in the world.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: But it is. That's what it is. It's a spiritual,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: spiritual warfare, and the psychiatric mafia is trying to get
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 3: you to believe that's a physical problem. That's why they
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: don't have any solutions. That's why they don't have any cures.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 3: That's why they say it's a lifelong malady because they
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: don't have any cures because they don't know what it
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 3: is and they're not willing to accept what it is.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. Well, the other thing is It's more than
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: just getting rid of demons. It's getting rid of the
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: junk and their food. You know, they feed on on
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: our anger and our god. In this you clean that
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: stuff out, they got nothing to feed on.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 3: That's where the MAS energy method comes in. It's it's
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 3: great getting rid of that buried up trauma. You know,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: one session we'll get rid of major trauma and it's
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: not there anymore. It's just gone. There's more information on
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 3: that on my website also at Jerrymarsinski dot com. I've
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: never seen anything work like it.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys so much, really appreciate it. It
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: was an amazing conversation. And thank you so much Judy
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: for your strength and your mental fortitude and you were
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: able to get over that and then write a book
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: about this. Where can people find your book on this?
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: I have so well, the book that I published with
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: Double Day is out of print, so nobody's going to
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: find that. There's I bought up every lost copy in
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: the world when I could. I'm working on a book
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: now about it. It's called The Terrible Years, and that'll
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: go into print probably in about two months. But I
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: have two other books on warfare and they can find
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: them under my name on Amazon or I have a
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: website called Strategies for Overcomers and they can find it
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: there Strategies for Overcomers dot com. And this one I
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: just wrote this was, Yeah, what I learned in the pit,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: what I learned from suffering basically into some interesting stuff.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: And they're both Christian books, you know, for people whole
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: in that way or don't so that people know you
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: know they're from a Christian worldview.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I highly recommend people check out these books.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: I'll put the link in the description for you to
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: check out these on Amazon Prime. Jerry, where can people
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: find more about you and read your article?
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: Well, this book here, I can get it in there.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: Amazing Journey into the Psychotic Mind. It's written by myself
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: and Cherry Sweeney, who had an experience similar to Judy's,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 3: and we put this together because we felt people needed
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: to know what these voices were and how they operated
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: and where they came from, that they weren't hallucinations. So
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: this is a story of how we reached that conclusion.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: And you can get that on my website at Jerrymarsinski
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: dot com or you can get it over Amazon.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you guys so much. The link to Jerry's
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: website is in the description of this video. And for
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: everyone else, thanks so much for being in the chat,
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: being here and listening. Please be sure to hit the
• 1:48:10
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• 1:48:12
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• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys next time. Guys, stay with me.