Latest / Drawn of History / Joe Rogan Experience _2194 - Luis Elizondo(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _2194 - Luis Elizondo(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: All day. What's up, Luke? How are you? Hey, sir.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm doing better than I deserve. Well, that's a good statement.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: You know, there's an old military saying, any day above
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: ground is a good day. There you go.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So tell everybody what your official job was.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Wow. I had a lot of official jobs. With the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: government in regards to, you know. You know. You know,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: those things. Sure. One of these things.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: That's allegedly, that's a replica of the one that Bob
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Lazar worked on, the sport model.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I've heard that before.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Designs by Perry. The E in Perry is a three,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: and he's a dude on Instagram that sent me that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Very cool. Pretty dope, right? Yeah.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: We have another one that looks just like it at
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the Mothership at the Comedy Club. When you walk in,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: you walk right through like a giant suspended UFO.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Very cool. So obviously I have issues. Well, you know what?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: This is a neat town. I was strolling the streets yesterday,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and I came across the Texas Toy Museum. Now, I'm
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: not one for museums usually, but something I saw was
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: automatically transported me back to when I was a kid.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I'm an old guy, so I grew up 70s and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: early 80s. How old are you? 52. I'm 57. You are? Yeah. Man, well,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I look 10 years older than you. I got a
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: lot of hard miles on me, unfortunately. I do too,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: believe it or not. Well, you'll have to share with
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: me your secret because, unfortunately, I tell people this is
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: as good as it gets. I'm about as attractive as
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a cement truck. So after the Army, I went into
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the Federal Service and had a lot of jobs, mostly
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: in counterintelligence, which is looking basically what the bad guys
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: know about us from an intelligence perspective. And in 2008,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I changed my job. One of my jobs, I was
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: working at the Director of National Intelligence, which for most
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: people may or may not know, it's kind of outside
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: of D.C. And where I lived, I was on the
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: other side of D.C. living on a little island in
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the Chesapeake Bay. And so my commute was terrible. I mean,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: it really, really frankly sucked. Did you have to take
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a ferry every day? No, but it was about a
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: three-hour commute each way. Oh, God. Why didn't you move closer? Well,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I wanted to give my kids a really good quality
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of life, and I did not want to work in
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the city and then kind of expose them to kind
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of the craziness, if that makes sense. Especially D.C.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: D.C.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Is crazy. Especially with kids, right?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Kind of nuts that they don't clean up the capital
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of the fucking country.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: It seems like it's kind of indicative of the rot
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the whole country is involved in. It's such a disgrace
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: because you bring these foreign dignitaries, and the first thing
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: they see is just the dereliction. Yeah. And it's a
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: very poor reflection on really what the American spirit is about. But,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you know, that's for another conversation. Yeah.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It seems like they could fix that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Especially in that place.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One would hope, right? Yeah. I mean, Jesus Christ,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: it's the nation's capital. Yeah. So I was offered a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: job to go back to the Pentagon in 2008 for
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a little while and basically run the integration between national
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: level intelligence information, and local and state and tribal law enforcement.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So after 9-11, the country realized that we had a
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: significant problem getting national level information down to the cops
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: on the ground that could actually do something about it. Why?
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Because you didn't have security clearances. So they weren't allowed
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to be provided that information. So one of my jobs
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was to try to help fix that. And shortly thereafter,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I got there in 2008. It was Early 2009 is
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: when I was approached by two individuals who came to
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: me and they said, look, we'd like to consider you
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: for a program that we're part of. It's a very
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: nuanced program, very secretive program. Now, when you're in the government,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you hear that all the time. It's not, you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: people look at it and they say, oh, you have
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a secret clearance or a top secret clearance. Millions of
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: people have some sort of security clearance in the government.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: And a lot, a lot of people have a top
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: secret clearance. So it's really not that uncommon. It's really
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: not that sexy.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So you didn't really know what you were getting involved in?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't at all. Not at all. In fact, so, yeah,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: great question. So, no, I didn't know what I was
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: getting involved in. And after several conversations, it occurred to
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: me that their interest in me was some of my
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: background I had. In my early career as a special
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: agent in counterintelligence, I was protecting technologies, critical technologies, critical
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: avionic technologies. For example... and some aerospace technology. So think
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of first stage solid rocket motor booster technology, Tomahawk cruise missiles,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, Apache Longbow. So advanced avionics was something
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I was kind of already familiar with. And at the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: same time, I had the counterintelligence background. So I was
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: asked to come in and run the counterintelligence and security
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: aspect for a particular program, at which time I had
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: no idea what the program even was. So What does
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: counterintelligence and security mean? It just simply means making sure
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: that our adversaries like Russia and China can't penetrate our
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: organization and steal our secrets. That's all it is. It's
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: kind of a fancy word for just saying security, information
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: security and operational security. So I remember I had a meeting.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: They brought me to go see their director. And it
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: was in a, I would tell you the location, but
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I was told by the Pentagon not to say the
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: specific location of this office, but It was somewhere in
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the D.C. area. It was a facility that wasn't known
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: publicly to be an intelligence, to have an intelligence office
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: in there. So I can't say the specific location. But
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I went there and I went up to the top floor.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I think it was the top floor, almost the top floor.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: And I met for the first time a gentleman named
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: James Lukatsky, Dr. James Lukatsky, Ph.D., And this guy was
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the epitome of a rocket scientist. And when I say
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the epitome, I mean he was probably, and there's no exaggeration,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the number one rocket scientist in the U.S. government. Now,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he's a humble guy, so he'll probably tell you he wasn't.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But he really was. He was an amazing human being
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and very smart. And after a very brief conversation, he
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: looked at me and he said, I want to ask
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you a question. I said, okay, sir. And he said,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: what do you think about UFOs? I said, uh, well,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I answered truthfully. I said, I don't. And he said, well,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? You don't believe in them? And
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I said, no, that's not what I said. You asked
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: me if I think, you know, what do I think
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: about UFOs? And frankly, I don't think about UFOs. Um,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I really don't have the luxury to think about them.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I'm too busy, you know, working intelligence operations and whatnot.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And I remember him looking over his glasses and, um,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: very seriously staring me straight in the eye and says, well, um,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Don't let your personal bias get the best of you
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: because what you may learn may surprise you and may
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: challenge any preconceived notion of what you think something is
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: or is not. And so let me backtrack for a minute.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I've never been a UFO guy. You know, people come
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: up like, oh, you're that UFO guy. I'm really not.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I was never really into science fiction as a kid.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I wasn't into the Star Trek or the Star Wars
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: like a lot of people were. So that was not
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: my disposition. I grew up, I guess, playing G.I. Joe
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So that wasn't my background. And
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: certainly in college, I studied microbiology and immunology with a
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: focus on parasitology. Not parapsychology, the study of parasites, parasitology.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So the scientific method has always been something that has
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: been near and dear to me. And then, of course,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: later on as a special agent, when you're conducting investigations...
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: For me, I was always very fact driven, kind of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the old gumshoe, if you will, just the facts man
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: sort of guy. So I was never really prone to
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: any type of, if you will, affinity towards science fiction
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: or even the UFO topic. I just I just never
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: really considered it.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Hmm. So he says this to you. And then so
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: we're talking about like, what, 16 years ago? 15, 16
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: years ago?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do the math, right? So it's 2024, 2000, early 2009.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So this is the beginning of your journey towards this
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: sort of bizarre subject of whatever these things are.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So you don't have any real previous interest. He says
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: this to you. And then what's the steps after that?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Like how do you get introduced to this idea that
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: these things are alien crafts?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So great question. So for some people, there's kind
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: of two ways people process this information, at least in
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: my experience. And there may be others. This has just
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: been my observation. Some people have this kind of revelatory moment,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this epiphany where it's this aha moment where, oh my gosh,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: this is real, right? For other people, it's kind of
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: more of a slow, gradual realization. And I think for me,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I was probably in the second category, more of a slow,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: gradual realization that this isn't a cover for something else.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: This is really about UFOs.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So how do you first get introduced to these things?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Well, so it was, I didn't get introduced to these things.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: It was, first of all, I was introduced to the reporting, right?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: So there was these official reports that we were getting
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: from the field. There's official videos and whatnot that describe
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: vehicles doing things, maneuvering in ways that frankly outperform anything
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: we have in our inventory. Now, keep in mind, my
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: background was at some point in aerospace. So I I
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: knew all the capabilities of an F-16 or for example, uh,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: an F-22 or the F-35. Um, and at the end
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of the day, as advanced as they are, they're, they're
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: still conventional aircraft. You know, they still have the old, um,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: there's a, there's a, an adage they use for jet engines. Uh, it,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: it may seem a little, uh, awkward here, but, uh, it's, uh, suck, squeeze, bang,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and blow. That's what a jet engine does. Forgive me,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that's what it does. It's a conventional type engine. Of course,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you have a propeller too that can displace air and whatnot.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: These vehicles were different. These vehicles, for the most part,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: didn't have any type of associated characteristic that you or
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I or any normal person would associate with the plane,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: with an airplane, an aircraft, right? And yet it's flying.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So How does an airplane work? Well, let's say this cigar,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: for example, is an airplane, and there's four fundamental forces.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And so you have thrust, lift, drag, and weight. And
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: if you understand those, you can create, you can build wings,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and you create lift, and you can fly. And then
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you have to have an engine for that thrust and whatnot.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The things that our military pilots were encountering didn't have that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: They didn't have wings. They didn't have rudders and ailerons
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and control surfaces. They didn't have cockpits. They didn't have engine,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: no obvious signs of propulsion. They were doing things and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: maneuvering in ways that, frankly, defied anything that we had
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: in our inventory. And we were pretty certain the enemies
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: didn't have either. Our adversary didn't have these technologies either.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: And even more perplexing is that they were being encountered
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: over controlled U.S. airspace and over sensitive military installations. So,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you know, from that perspective, you've got a real national
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: security concern on your hands.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: So you said video. Do you remember the first thing
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: that you saw?
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Boy, there's so many. You know, I think part of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the challenge is that most people here in this country,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: they're familiar with the three videos, right, that have been
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: famously released by the Pentagon. The Go Fast. Go Fast, Gimbal, FLIR, correct. Right.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: But those are the least compelling of all the videos
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that the government has. Those were unclassified. And so those
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: were the ones, those were kind of the low-hanging fruit
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: that could be released to the general public. There's stuff
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: out there that's like 4K ultra high definition, right? So
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: when you see something like that from a certain military
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: platform or a certain military equity or an intelligence collection platform,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you have to look at that and say, well, what
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: is that? What the hell is that? And more importantly,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that data is being backed up by radar data, right?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So you've got electro-optical data like gun camera footage or
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: POD or FLIR video, and then you've got radar data
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that is actually confirming what the video is picking up.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: And then you've got eyewitnesses that are also watching it, right?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So you've got trained observers, pilots that can recognize the
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: silhouette between an SU-22 and a MiG-25 from 20 miles
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: away and make a split-second decision. Is it friend or foe?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Do I kill it or do I let it live?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And they're reporting it. So you have now three separate,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: if you will, collection platforms, the human eye being one
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of them. You've got gun camera footage and you've got
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: radar footage. all describing the same event at the same
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: place at the same time under the same circumstances, right?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And so keep in mind with my background as a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: former special agent in counterintelligence, if this was in front
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of a jury, you know, as I've said before, I
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: think we're well beyond reasonable doubt. That is something there.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is real. That's not an atmospheric aberration.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's not an anomaly. That is something there. It's tangible.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: So was there an aha moment for you? Like the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: first thing that you saw that you looked at and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: you go, what the fuck?
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: No, like I said, for me it was more slow
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and gradual.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: What was the first thing that you saw that made
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: you realize that there's something going on here that defies
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: conventional wisdom or conventional understanding of propulsion systems?
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I think for me one of the most compelling moments
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: was when I attended– Boy, let me go back into
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: memory banks. I attended a dinner with some individuals who
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: were already associated with the larger umbrella program called OSAP.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: And I attended dinner at a Washington, D.C. hotel, and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: a Brazilian general attended this dinner. And the dinner was
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: sponsored by a gentleman named Robert Bigelow. the famous billionaire hotelier. Yeah,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I've met him. Yeah. I've met him on the podcast. Yeah.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And by the way, he's an American hero. He's a patriot.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: He's a brilliant guy. He is brilliant. And people don't
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: realize that he funded, self-funded a lot of this stuff
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: on behalf of the U.S. government by himself. Like, he
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: paid to do it himself. He really is an American patriot,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. But anyways, he flew in this guy
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: named General Uchoa. General Uchoa was a Brazilian general. very,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: very senior in the Brazilian government, who led an investigation
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: about an event that occurred over several days. Is this
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the Varginha incident? No, it's actually called Colares. Oh, another one.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: In Brazil, yeah. And the Colares incident. And they had
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: an overwhelming number of eyewitnesses. And there was even some
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: video and photographs that they had produced internally there to Brazil.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And it was overwhelming, the evidence. And for me, that
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: was It was more listening to him and explain the
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: concern they had and some of the interactions the Brazilian
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: government officials had with these UAP that really I left
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: there that dinner scratching my head and really at that
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: point beginning to absorb the profoundness that we're dealing with
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: something that is real. This is not a cover plan
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: for some other technology we're trying to protect. Did he
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: show you this video evidence? So he was, it was,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I was sitting at the, kind of like a table
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like this. There was a whole lot of people at
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the table. He was sitting at the head. I was
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: kind of way down over here and he brought a
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: manila envelope and he was showing photographs to everybody, right?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: And some reporting as well. I think he brought, if
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I recall correctly, his daughter to translate because I don't
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: think English was his, you know, very good, it wasn't
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: his language. But for me, that was, and I think
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: for one of my colleagues too, which I probably can't
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: say his name right now because he hasn't come out
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: publicly yet, but We both left that dinner, I think,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: scratching our heads and saying, wow, this is legit. This
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is real. The U.S. government is interested in this, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: there is interest by our government. After that dinner, attending
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: more meetings and beginning to read the reports, the field reports,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: and speaking to the scientists, it became evident to me
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that this was a very serious issue. We had near
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: misses over some of our are areas of operation. In
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: some cases, literally, these UAP splitting a combat formation. Now,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: if you know how planes fly, they fly very close
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: in a combat situation. These things were splitting the formation, right?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: That there were reports being provided through the Air Force,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: mostly through the Navy, about air safety issues, where pilots
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: literally could run into these things, right? They were pervasive.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like a onesie and twosies.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Was there ever an incident where a pilot... or a
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: jet did run into something?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Not that I'm aware of what I can tell you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that there has been incidents where there appears to be
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: some sort of provocation where one of these things seems
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to be coming deliberately close to an aircraft, not necessarily
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: trying to hit it, but maybe trying to demonstrate performance capabilities.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: There was one video in particular. I haven't been cleared
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: by the Pentagon, so let me see if I can
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: speak about it in general terms. There's a pilot flying
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And you can hear on the radio this chatter back
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and forth. Do you see it? Do you have eyes
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: down on it? Pilot, nope. Negative, no eyes down. Okay,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: you should have it on radar. Yeah, I got something
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: on radar, but no eyes. We can't see it. And
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, a craft, an object, goes
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: whizzing right by the cockpit. And I mean probably like
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: 15 feet away. And you can hear the pilot, the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: expletives of the pilot. I won't say it here on air,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: but You can imagine, right, what a pilot would say
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: when they're very, very surprised. That was one. Can you
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: describe what he saw? I think I can. I want
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: to be careful that I don't because, again, what I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: have approval to talk about, I've spoken about. Let me
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: preface this by saying I still have my security clearance,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and on occasion I still will consult for the U.S. government.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: And so I want to be very mindful. I have
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: no problem going up all the way to the line. Right. Understood.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: But if I put up a pinky toe over that line,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: they're going to get me. But it was a wedge-shaped craft. Wedge-shaped. Wedge-shaped.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Like triangular, but like a wedge. I don't know how
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: else to describe it. I could draw it for you
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: if you want. Sure, you can. Yeah. Give me a second.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So just like a wedge that you would like split
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: wood with like that kind of a wedge?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was, it was silver metallic and like a,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: like a diamond maybe. That's a better way to describe it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Like a diamond almost. And it looked kind of like,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it looked, looked kind of like that really. It's just a,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: just a little.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: And that, that kind of shape is something that's been
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: reported multiple times.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So that was the first time I ever saw something
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: like that. To me, it was, keep in mind, I,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I never followed this topic. So every time I'm seeing
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: one of these videos, I'm kind of seeing something for
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the very first time. So lenticular, whether it's a disc-shaped
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: craft or it's a wedge-shaped craft or a diamond-shaped craft
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: or a triangle-shaped craft, boomerang in some cases, these were
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: all new to me. So it was very, very perplexing.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: And obviously, to our military pilots, it was very concerning.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And I think when you look at some of the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: gold standard cases we had, like the Nimitz, for example,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that case, you have this overwhelming number of sensors looking
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: at the same thing going on that the pilots are reporting.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And for me, that was most compelling. Like I said,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: more than eyewitness testimony is important. But at the end
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: of the day, you know, grandma seeing some lights in
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: her backyard doesn't really do it for me. You know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I'm a fact oriented kind of guy. I've got to
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: see the data, let the data provide us the information
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we need so then we can make a conclusion. Right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, If you start seeing UFOs in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the sky everywhere, well, chances are they're probably not. You know,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it's a quadcopter, it's a balloon, it's an aircraft, it
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: could be all sorts of things. That's why I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: from our perspective, having the fundamental categories, the observables we
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: call them, was so important because they are so beyond
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: what a normal aircraft, a traditional conventional aircraft can do.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: At that point, you realize you're dealing with some sort
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: of beyond next generation technology. And that's when it gets
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: compelling for guys like me, right? When you're seeing performance
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: capabilities that far exceed, far surpass anything we have. And
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I'm talking even the very, very best technology we have,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: we don't come close to that. And no visible means
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: of propulsion? No, or obvious signs of lift, right? And
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: not even a cockpit. You have to scratch your head
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and say, what's going on? Interestingly, I'll share with you-
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So no windows? No windows. Well- In some cases, no windows.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Other cases, people will report what they think are windows.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: They say, oh, I saw windows. But at the end
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of the day, you know, we're looking that in terms
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of what we think a window is, right? So you
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: see a car, you see windows. Or a plane, those
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: are windows. I didn't see any information to suggest that
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: there were actually windows, even though an eyewitness might describe
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: a window. Because we are describing something of something that
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: we recognize.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: And so we say, oh, that might be a window
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: or whatnot. But it might not be a window. And
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so I want to be very careful to say there
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: were no windows. There could have been. But the ones
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: that I was privy to that I saw, I didn't
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: see any obvious signs of like a windshield or a window.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't see anything like that. I saw vehicles that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: were doing things that were just left you scratching your head.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And they were real, like I said, because you're backing
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it up with all this other sensor data. And some
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of the best sophisticated sensor data, by the way, at
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the time on the planet that we had, right, like
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the SPY-1 radar and the E2 Hawkeye and some of
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the other radar capabilities and technical capabilities that other intelligence
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: agencies have that I can't discuss here, you know, this
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: is the stuff that helps us put, forgive the analogy here,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: but warheads on foreheads. When we're going to take a
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: strike against a terrorist, these are the same sensor systems
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: we use today. to prosecute that war, that act, both
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: in combat and not in combat. So, yeah, that for
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: me was very compelling. And it's lots and lots of videos.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: People think that there's only three videos. Those don't even
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: scratch the surface. There are hundreds and hundreds of videos
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that the intelligence community and the Department of Defense have
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: on these things.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Has there ever been any discussion about releasing any of these?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I don't want to speak on behalf of the government.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Colleagues of mine like Chris Mellon, who have been very, very,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: very active in this topic and have actually been responsible
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: for a lot of what we see now happening in Congress,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: has been championing that. He is the one who says, look,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: we need more videos to come out so the American
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: people can see for themselves what we've been dealing with.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: When I had Chris Mellon in the Pentagon, he saw
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: those videos. And up to that point, he had been,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: when he was a senior person at the Pentagon, like
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: very senior, one of his jobs as the senior intelligence official,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: he asked, hey, do we have any UAP UFO videos, investigations,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: anything like that? And they told him no. So when
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: he came to the Pentagon and saw what we actually
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: did have, you can imagine someone like Chris Mellon, right?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: He wasn't very happy. He was actually pretty disappointed saying, why?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Why was I told no? I can see these videos. Clearly,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I see the reports. Clearly, this is something that we're
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: interested in as a Department of Defense. And yet, when
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I was one of the senior guys, he got the Heisman, right?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: He was being told no. And so that was, I think,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a point for him that really, that's probably the spark.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to speak for my friend, Chris,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: but I suspect that was probably the spark that got
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: him to the point where he said, okay, we have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to do something about this.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: This is B.S., Yeah, when I was talking to him,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it seemed like that was his perspective, that this was
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: something that really should be, at least in some way,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: shape or form, released to the general public. Just to
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: solidify the conversation, just to let people know, like, these
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: are real. This is a real thing. These are not just,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: have you seen the one that people were filming just
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a couple of days ago in Palmdale, California?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they said those were drones, though, if
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. I think the jury came out, if
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong. that it was
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: somebody using drones with some LED lights. Which, by the way.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: You can do wild things with drones now.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: You absolutely can. You've seen the ones where they can create.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Images in the sky.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Dragons and stuff with drones.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we have to be careful.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: As our own technology begins to advance, there's going to
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: be pranksters out there. Right. And that's one of the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: things that, for me, in AATIP, I always went into
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: an investigation or a case assuming that it was man-made, right? Right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And until I saw the compelling data that said otherwise...
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: we were always going to assume or presume that this
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was something that was conventional. It was probably misidentified, but
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: it wasn't exotic. And then once the data suggests otherwise,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: then you kind of go into that other mode of, okay,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: now what are we dealing with? Again, especially on the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: backdrop of the five performance observables, that's when you start
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: to say, okay, yeah, this is not an F-16. This
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: is not a Chinese aircraft. This is something different.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: What is the oldest video footage or film footage that
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: you have ever seen or heard?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Civilian or military? It doesn't matter.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: What is the oldest where it's like, okay, what the
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: fuck is this? What's the oldest stuff that's compelling? The
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: point is what I'm trying to get at is a
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: lot of people point to the possibility that there's some
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: sort of a secret program, some sort of secret propulsion, gravity-based,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: whatever it is. that's completely different than conventional propulsion systems
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: that the U.S. government has and that they're operating these drones.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And the problem with that is always the, like, the
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Kenneth Arnold sightings, the Roswell, the sightings from a time
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: where that technology just wasn't available at all.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Joe, I'm so glad you asked me that question. It
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: just so happens I brought you something.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: When the glasses come out, you know it's getting serious. No,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: it just means I'm old. Me too. Yeah. I'm going
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to provide you a document here. It's a short document,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: but the portions I think are highlighted that you're going
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: to want to pay attention to. And let's see here. Okay.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So if this is just for you and if your
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: audience is interested, it's this paragraph here you're going to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: want to read. And then it's the last one that's highlighted.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: And then take a look at the date and the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: subject line. This is it right here.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Jamie brought it up here.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, great. Yeah. So paragraph six right now. So if
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you want to scroll down to paragraph six. Okay.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: This summary of observations of aerial phenomenon has been prepared
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: for the purpose of reemphasizing and reiterating the fact that
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: the phenomena have continuously occurred in the New Mexico skies
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: during the past 18 months and are continuing to occur.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: And secondly, that these phenomena are occurring in the vicinity
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: of sensitive military and government installations.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And if you want to go back to like paragraph two,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: there you go. The highlighted part? Yeah, the observers of.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: The observers of those phenomenon include scientists, special agents of
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the Office of Special Investigations, the U.S. Air Force, airline pilots,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: military pilots, Los Alamos security inspectors, military personnel, and many
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: other persons of various occupations whose reliability is not questioned.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And now scroll to the top of the very top
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: of that document.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: It says that it was determined— Above that? The Summary
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: of Observations of Aerial Phenomenon in the New Mexico Area,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: December 1948 to May 1950.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And the date of that document, if you scroll a
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: little bit higher, you are going to see the date
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of that memo. Oh, 1950.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: May 25, 1950. Right.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: It says that it was determined that the frequency of
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: unexplained aerial phenomena in the New Mexico area was such
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: that an organized plan of... reporting these observations should be undertaken.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So this is the beginning of Project Blue Book.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So this is the recognition that we have a serious
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: problem over our sensitive military installations. This is nothing new.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: This is not 1970s reverse engineered technology or some sort
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: of special technology. Right, 1950, they're talking about this. We
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: had just broken the sound barrier, and we had not
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: yet entered into space. And we have these things that
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: are performing in ways that, frankly, we can't replicate. I
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: brought a few more of these later on to emphasize
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that point you just brought up at some point, if
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you're interested. Yeah. But it highlights that these are official
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: government documents through official government personnel raising the alarm bells
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: just like we did in OSAP and ATIPS. And so
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: this is nothing new. Now, if you want to look
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: at this from an adversarial perspective, our governors already said
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: that's not ours, right? If you look at a 1950
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Sabre jet, for example, it wasn't even supersonic. and yet
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: these things that we are observing in some cases are doing,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I brought some more documents here, multiples of, of mock, um, at, at,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: at doing velocities and doing things that we frankly could
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: not do back then. And frankly, we still can't do
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: in some cases, but temporarily speaking, the only two countries
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: in the world may, may have a chance of doing
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: something like that would be Russia and China. And now
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: in 1950, where was China was in the middle of
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: a famine at the time. And where was Russia? Russia was, uh,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: trying to develop the atomic bomb and still was using
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: horse-drawn carts for a lot of their military operations. So,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: temporally speaking, it doesn't make sense. This is the analogy
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I've used before, Joe, that it would be like the
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Carter going into King Tut's tomb for the very first
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: time in the 1920s, discovering King Tut's tomb, and when
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: he goes in, he finds a fully assembled 747 jet.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. Temporally speaking, they did not have
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: that technology. So is it possible, and I'll be very
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: careful what I say, that the U.S. government has some
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: sort of exotic technology? Well, my answer is I sure
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: hope so because, you know, we want to have an
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: advantage over our adversaries. But in 1950, that wasn't the case. Right.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: And do they have any film of these crafts from
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: New Mexico?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: No. There is film of many craft, and not just
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: New Mexico per se, but over many military installations. I've
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: got another one for you. I'll provide you. You don't
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: want to have to waste your time reading it, but
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I think you'll appreciate this. Take a look at the
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: date of this and who it's to and who it's from,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and I think you'll find the subject line very interesting. Okay,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: which one? What part am I reading here? Just to
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: highlight a portion so you can see the top of
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the document, who it's from, who it's to and the date,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and what the subject line is. Director of Special Investigate.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: What does it say? It's hard because it's all scratchy. Yeah,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: it's an old reproduction of official government document. Bottom line,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: it's a document from J. Edgar Hoover. Oh, I see.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: From the director of the FBI. Department of the Air Force,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the Pentagon. Yeah, J. Edgar Hoover. Director of Federal Bureau
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of Investigations. And read the subject line of that memo. Flying... God,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: it's hard to read because it's all screwy. Flying disks,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I should say. Flying disks over the savanna. There's a
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: sensitive facility that we had where we were doing atomic development.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, flying disks reportedly seen in the vicinity of something...
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: River Plant?
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Savannah River Plant. Yes, sir. Okay. That's correct.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And so that's just- Atomic Energy Commission.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the date of that being 1952, right? So
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: this is verified? That was released by the government. Those
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: are all official. All these are official U.S. government documentation
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that anybody can pull up anytime they want.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Did they let you see any of these ancient films,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: these films from the 1950s of these things?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: So great question. Our focus was really more modern time
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: it was more like taking a picture of where we
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: are now i mean but wouldn't you.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Want to just like if you if you really think
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: this thing is from somewhere else the best example of
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: it definitely not being ours is something from the.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: 1950s sure and anecdotally that that's that's great but keep
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: in mind on the backdrop of national security when you
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: go to a general and you clean this.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Up by the way it's crazy it's like half the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: things are blotted out and scratchy um yeah that's uh
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: uncle sam for you um You know, when you go
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: to a general or, you know.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: It makes me suspicious. No, you can find it.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: But it was just like. Yeah, the government released that.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, they admit that.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Fucking shitty old 1920 fax machine.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Look at that. Well, remember, they were using typewriters back
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: then too, right? And the ink smears. Yeah, blotchy. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure the original is probably much, much cleaner. But
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: that's what the government put out online for people to review.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: So when you're going back to answer your question, when
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you are going to a general or you're going to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: a military leader, about this topic, if you go back
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: to anecdotal stuff like, oh, this is something from 1950s,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: they're not interested. They're like, look, what is going on now?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: What is the threat now? I've got a carrier strike
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: group out in the water. I'm getting reports these things
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: are coming in and interrogating the ship. I want to
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: see that. I want to see the videos. I want
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to see the reporting. I want to see the deck
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: logs and what the commander says. And I want to
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: know the pilots. I want to talk to the pilots,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the radar operators. That's their focus. They're not interested. By
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the way, we've tried a few times And the further
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: back in time we go, the less interested they were.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So it was really the current information. What's going on now?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not interested in what happened yesterday.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: They're just taking a pragmatic approach.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's understandable. From a military perspective, a national
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: security perspective, the other stuff is interesting. And from the
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: general public's perspective, they're interested. But from a national security perspective,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: they're like, hey, man, that was three decades ago. Right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Makes sense. I need now. So it is understandable. A
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: little frustrating because you want to demonstrate, look, boss, this
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: is nothing new. This is a repeated pattern that we're
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: seeing here. But they're more interested in the here and now.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So do they have repeated footage? Because you're saying three decades,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: but obviously we're talking about 1950. Do they have stuff
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: from the 1980s, stuff from the 1990s?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: There was reporting. Yeah. And again, I got to be
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: careful because some of that stuff I haven't been cleared
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: to talk about. But There are reports we call foreign intelligence, FI,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: foreign intelligence reports. I can't say where or who or
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: anything like that. But on classified systems where we know
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: without a shadow of a doubt UAPs were encountered in
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: other countries, adversarial countries. Why? Because we spy on them
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: and we know. Again, I can't say how we know
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and whatnot because I'd get in trouble.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: So we know this is not a United States phenomenon.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Precisely. It is not a U.S.-only phenomenon. And in fact,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: in other countries, whether it's in Latin America, South America,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: or in Europe or Russia, China, there is an extreme
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: interest in this topic. In fact, the Chinese, it was
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in the newspaper, I think it was the China Morning Sun,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: they have something called the Five Continents Initiative, where allegedly
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: they were trying to broker a deal with the United
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Nations that would allow China to run all the UFO
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: investigations for the United Nations, right? So We also know
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: that Russia, they've come out and said, yeah, we're interested
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: in this topic. There were some released old KGB footage
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: that showed MiG interactions with these UAP. And there's also
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: in Latin America, you have the same thing. If you
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: go to Latin America now, they don't have the same
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: level of stigma and taboo associated with this topic like
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: we do. And so they talk freely about it. They
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: have no problem talking. In fact, when I was in
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the Patagonia area of Argentina, there is a near town
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: called Bariloche and Las Lajas. One of the chief of
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: police was telling me that there's an area there called
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: La Miranda. La Miranda means to see, to view. And
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: they call it that, the town, because UAP are so
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: frequent there that local law enforcement actually built an observatory,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: an observation post, to look at these things because they
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: were so frequent. So this is not a new phenomenon.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: This is something that's been around for quite a long time.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: The problem is, in my opinion, and I could be wrong,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: but this is my assessment, The reason why it's so
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: difficult to have the conversation here is because our government
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: had placed so much emphasis and interest trying to stigmatize
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: this topic that it almost worked too well. Now we're
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: at the point where we should be having this conversation
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and people still don't want to because they think it's crazy.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: You think of tinfoil hats and Elvis on the mothership.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: But in reality, we're talking about a real national security issue.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, these things are here. You have, Joe, you
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: have a former director of national intelligence, Ratcliffe, a former
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: director of CIA. Brennan, you have former presidents all coming
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: out and saying, yeah, there's something to it. It's real, right? Now,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: what it is, where it's from and all that stuff,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure we're quite ready to go there yet.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: But the acknowledgement is, hey, man, yeah, this is real.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: It's not ours. And we probably should do something about it.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So if we go back to the history of the
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: debunking of it, you know, like the Project Blue Book stuff, J.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Allen Hynek, after he had left Project Blue Book, he
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: became a proponent of UFO disclosure. During Project Blue Book,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: it was his job to essentially dismiss everything and to
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: come up with some sort of a reason, swamp gas,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: mass hallucinations, whatever it was, to attribute all these sightings
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: to something that was very easy to explain. Is there
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: any documentation or any discussion of why they did that,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: why they chose to debunk everything?
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my understanding is you have to look at where
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: America was at the time they were doing these investigations.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: It was at the height of the Cold War, right? And,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: you know, despite what some people think, the Cold War
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't very cold at all. It was pretty hot. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: we had Russia and the United States engaging in these
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: proxy wars. Neither side wanted to let the other side
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: know what we had and what we didn't know, right?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: So if you have these UAP coming in and out,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the last thing you want to do is tell the
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: other side broadcasts. This is what we've learned from it,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and more importantly, this is what we don't know about it.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: And so both sides were keeping this very quiet, but
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: there was an interesting agreement at the classified level, I
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: believe in the late 60s, where there was this relationship
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: with the United States. We were putting up our northern
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: tier radar system to detect then Soviet Union ICBMs, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: they were doing the same thing, right? Because none of
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: us really trusted each other. But we trusted each other
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: enough to say, look, before you hit that button, if
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: you see something coming over the horizon, before you hit
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that button and launch, give us a call because it
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: might be a UFO, right? And we don't want to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: start World War III because either side mistakes a UFO
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: for an ICBM. And that's how serious they took the topic.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's real. That's a real memo that existed
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: between the United States and Russia. So that is an
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: indicator how much both sides took this topic seriously. Jesus.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: And so when Philip Corso was dismissing all these different things,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: did they... have anything, any film footage, any, any stuff
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: from that time from project blue book that was like
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: definitively not ours.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not privy to what I'm, I'm aware of the
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: fact that people say it does exist and people have
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: been briefed on it. I wasn't privy to that. I
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was again, more focused on the here and now I
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: was aware of people who had attended certain meetings, very
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: senior level meetings where that was discussed, where they saw
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: certain footage. But I'm hearing that secondhand. I did not
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: see the old footage. My focus was more on the current,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: what's going on now. But back to your point, why
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: was this effort to try to create so much stigma
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and taboo? I think it was because of that. I
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: think because you had Russia and US at this weird
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: stalemate where neither one wanted to tell the other side
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: what we know and what we didn't know about UAP.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: And really, I think the focus from a national security perspective,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: let's say you're a general and I'm a general, look,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: We've got a real Cold War going on here right now.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: As long as these things aren't coming in and zapping
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: my people, that's going to be my focus right now.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: That's a real potential threat that I have to deal
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: with now. I've got Russia pointing nukes at me and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I'm pointing nukes at them at any time we could launch.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Let's focus on that more so than the other stuff.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And that has been my observation on why they didn't
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: want to address the problem, the challenge. openly with the
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: general public back. And they also were worried. There was
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: several studies that suggested that most people would be very
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable with that idea that there's something else in the
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: cosmos potentially, or even right here on earth, and that
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it would create some sort of societal disruption, right? They
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: didn't want to cause panic. They were afraid that people
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: would kind of like think of a run on Wall Street, right?
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: When people get panicked, they do kind of strange things sometimes.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: And I think the government was very worried about that.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: What's the most compelling modern thing that you've seen?
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, I can't talk about it, unfortunately. This
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: is my frustration, Joe, because I know what I've seen.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I know what my colleagues have seen, right? And to
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: this day, there's video that's coming in on a regular
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: routine basis that is very, very compelling.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: How do they hide this stuff from the general public?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Well, we have classified systems. We hide a lot of things.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Right, but how is it getting filmed? Is any of
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: it getting filmed by the general public or is all
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: this military stuff?
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: So- Let me backtrack a little bit. This, there's a
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: general public that is filming stuff. But from a Department
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: of Defense perspective, our focus, now Arrow is a different story,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: but when I was in the government, we had to
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: be very, very careful of something that we called intelligence oversight.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Back in the 60s and 70s, the U.S. intelligence apparatus,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: particularly in the Department of Defense, was kind of naughty.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: They were doing things they shouldn't do. They were spying
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: on students and they were spying on American citizens. You
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: don't say. Crazy. Say it isn't so. Um, so Congress
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: passed some laws and said, okay, you, you can no
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: longer do this kind of stuff on, on, on, on
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: American citizens, right? You can't conduct intelligence operations on American citizens.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: You can't do it. It's illegal, right? And so you
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: have executive order one, two, triple three, and all these
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: other rules and laws and DOD 5240.1 that all come
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: out and say, no mas. Um, so department of defense
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: is supposed to focus on military. That's it. You don't
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: bring in U.S. person's information and ingest them into a
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Department of Defense database, especially a Department of Defense intelligence database.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: That's a super no-no. That's called U.S. person's information, and
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much foreboding. So our focus was looking specifically
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: at military-sourced information. I was not focusing at all on
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: what the private citizens were seeing because at the end
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: of the day, we couldn't use it. You can't do
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: anything with the data.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: And it seems like you got plenty of compelling footage
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: from the military.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Overwhelming. Overwhelming. There's absolutely no doubt that we didn't have
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: to look at civilian data because we had better collection
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: sensor systems from the military that was looking at stuff
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and giving us better insight.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: If you can't tell us about, can you give us
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: some sort of an understanding of like what you're talking about?
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Without being specific? Yeah. Let me see. Okay. Yeah.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: There is a video, high resolution video. of, uh, I
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: can't say what platform was taken from, I can't say
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: where it was taken from, but, um, an object that,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: you know, do you know how large a, uh, an
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: offshore shore oil derrick is? They're huge, right? They're like
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: almost like a small city, right? They're like one city block.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: They're huge. They're enormous things. Um, there is a video
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: that shows one of these objects underwater. That goes by,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the speed was calculated between 450 and 550 knots underwater,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: and it was bigger than the offshore derrick that it
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was passing. Because you could see in the video the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: offshore derrick, and you could see this thing zip right
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: by it. Jesus. Yeah.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: So that's a lot of them, right? A lot of
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: them are reported as being transmedium.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Right. Exactly. Why do we use the term UAP, right?
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Now it's unidentified anomalous phenomenon because it's all domain. Initially
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: it was UFO, unidentified flying object. And for several reasons,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: they changed the name. One of them, not just because
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: of stigma like people think, but because the word flying
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: object means flight and you have to have wings to fly.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: That's flight. And these things don't have wings. So that
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: term we're not even sure is even accurate anymore because
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: they're not necessarily flying. We see them underwater. We see
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: them super high altitude. So the term was changed to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: unidentified aerial phenomenon. But again, that did not encompass all
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: the observations we were seeing. So now the term UAP,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I think the latest description of it is unidentified anomalous
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: phenomenon to help describe this multi-domain or transmedium characteristic that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: we are beginning to see and record that these things
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: can do. And that is, I'm going to, if I
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: can digress for a second, because that's super important, Joe. Mm-hmm.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: We have transmedium vehicles, right? We have things like seaplanes
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: and it's a plane and it can float on water.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: But let's face it, a seaplane is neither a really
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: good plane or a really good boat because it's a compromise.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: It's a design compromise between an object that you want
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: to perform in the air and in the sea. And
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: that's why it's neither really good at both. same thing with,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: for example, a space shuttle. It goes out into space
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: and it can glide down, but it's not a very
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: good airplane, comes down like a brick, you know, because
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: there's design compromises and performance compromises. But what we are
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: seeing doesn't have any of that attributable compromise. It's not,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: these objects aren't slowing down. They're not changing their performance capabilities.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: They can do the same thing that we're seeing in
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: the air and possibly in space and even underwater. So,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: That is a fundamentally different type of technology than we
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: are used to dealing with.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Is the assumption that they are doing something with space, time,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: and gravity around them rather than using something like a
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: jet propulsion engine that blasts fire out the back and
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: it makes it go fast forward, that they're doing something
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: that alters the gravity around them? And that's why they
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: can go through everything.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we had some of the best scientists on
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the team, folks like Dr. Hal Pudoff and some other
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: folks that I'm not allowed to say their names, Dr.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Eric Davis and some others, that were doing the calculations,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: mathematical calculations on how this is possible. And the consensus
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: was by the scientists, not me because I'm not a
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: physics expert and I'm not an astrophysicist. They were saying that,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: so let me back up here. Initially, the government for
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: years was trying to identify the different exotic technologies that
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: could explain the different performance characteristics. And it was during
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: the ATIP years that the scientists had this consensus that
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: if you had one type of technology, if you could
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: do one thing, all these other observables now become possible.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Kind of think of like a unifying theory. And so
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: if you had the ability to to create this bubble
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: around you in a localized area that insulated you from
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the effects of earth's gravity now what is gravity people
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: think that you know when i drop my glasses that's
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: gravity that's not gravity that's an effect of gravity gravity
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: is the warping of space time and that's important because
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: people don't they you hear the term thrown around a
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: lot but they don't realize that space and time are
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: actually connected they are they are they are one of
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the same they're opposite sides, if you will, of the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: same coin. And so you can't have one without the other.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: And so you have this ability to create a bubble
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: around you that insulates you from the warping of space-time,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: let's say in this case, Earth's gravity or something like that.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Then the way you experience time inside that bubble is
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: perhaps fundamentally different than the way you might experience space-time
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: outside that bubble because you're not subject to the effects
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: of gravity, which would explain potentially why things don't need
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: wings and why they don't need propulsion systems like that, right?
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: So It's a completely different way of looking at how
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: we understand physics and how we, as humans, move about.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Everything we do is fundamentally force equals mass times acceleration.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: F equals ma, right? Mass times acceleration and you get force.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: This may be something a little bit different. This is
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: not using, again, conventional thrust or if I put in
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: a Newtonian, right, if I if I push this way,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I have an equal and opposite reaction that way. Right.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: That's how, are there any theories as to how it's
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: accomplishing this?
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: There is actually Dr. Hal Pudoff about three years ago,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: gave a speech on this, uh, a very, uh, interesting
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: talk lecture about this technology. And if you ever had
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the chance, you really should have him on because he's a,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: he's a, he's incredible human being. He's also the one
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: who helped start the government's remote viewing program and a
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: He's been involved in a lot of our nation's probably
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: most classified efforts. But he was working with us on
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: ATP as one of our scientists. And he gave a
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: lecture about three years ago to some other scientists about
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: the specifics on how this is possible. I am not
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: a scientist, so I'm definitely not going to speak on
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: behalf of Hal Pudoff because I'm sure I will muck
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: it up. But I do recall a time when he
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: came into our SCIF and gave us about a three-hour
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: lecture on this unifying theory. And at that moment, it
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: was very much for us the epiphany of, that a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: lot of us had been searching for. He's like, look,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this is how it's possible.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: And that was kind of this, wow. So it's really not.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Can you give us a moron's view of how it's possible?
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Explain it to someone like me. Yeah, well, I'm
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: in that category, Joe. We're speaking the same language. Yes, sir.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Single syllable grunts, right? Yeah. So you have an object
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: like this cup on your table. and you want it
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: to be insulated from the effects of Earth's gravity. So
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you create this bubble artificially using a certain energetic source
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: at a certain frequency, and it interacts with a certain material,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: a certain metamaterial, and again, I've got to be careful
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: exactly what I say, but a certain skin of the craft,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: this aluminum cup here, and all of a sudden, you
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: have this bubble around you where, what you see on
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: the outside is not necessarily what you see on the inside.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: In fact, may I do a little more drawing for you? Okay,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: forgive me, I'm not an artist. So I'm gonna do
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: this upside down for you and then I'm gonna kinda
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: scoot this just a little here. All right, let's do this. So,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: unfortunately I know your audience can't see this, but actually
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: it's probably good.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: That's okay, some people can. There's a video form of it.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sure this will get on, it'll be on YouTube
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: It's probably good that they don't, because I'm not an artist. Okay.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: But let's say, This is a two-dimensional representation of a
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: three-dimensional space. Okay. And in essence....
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: So what you've done is essentially you've created a three-dimensional
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: looking grid stacked. It looked like stacked boxes on top
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: of each other.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. And so you have this, you have location
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: A and location B. And let's say you go from...
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles to Baltimore. And it takes me five hours
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: to fly at 500 miles an hour. That's a function
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: of distance over time. And in essence, you can mark
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: that linearly like this. So I fly, it takes me
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: five hours, there I am. If you had the ability
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: to compress space-time, and not a lot, just a little bit,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: and you were able to allow these points to be
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: a little closer together, now in essence, What took you,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: let's say, five hours and 500 miles an hour to
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: do it, you can do it in one hour. And
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you can do it in much less time. But to
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: the observer outside, because we're still in the same universe,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: we would see something like that. We would see this
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: incredible hopscotching ability to, if you will, take a shortcut
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: through space-time. And so what would appear to be instantaneous acceleration,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: hypersonic velocity and other things, now becomes a reality. And
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: so that is fundamentally what the scientists had discovered. And
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: so it seems like science fiction, but when you understand
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: the mathematics and some of the theorem that they propose,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of these other observables become possible.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: So these are essentially just theoretical explanations of how these
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: things are moving.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a scientist.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: I want to be very careful. You know, I don't
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: want to misrepresent anything. There's a whole lot of other
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: stuff that if you can do that, all of a
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: sudden now makes sense and may describe the observations that
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: people are seeing and why they're kind of hard to
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: see and they seem obscure. And so I think from
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: a governmental perspective that it was kind of a revelatory
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: moment for the folks in our program.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: So they realize one of the reasons why these things
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: are weird looking is because they're literally creating.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Do you want a light? Do you mind? I'm sorry. Yeah,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: take this. Thank you.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: So the back thing, the other side. Push that down.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: There you go. Bam. Thank you very much. No problem.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: So how much of this is theoretical and how much
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: of this is observed from recovered vehicles?
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I am not allowed to talk about what the government
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: may or may not have in its possession other than
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: that I have. So I went through a very lengthy
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Pentagon review process recently. I wrote I won't talk about
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: it here, but I wrote something and I had to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: go through Pentagon to have a review process. It took
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: almost a year in this this thing I wrote. I
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: talk about up to the ledge up to the part
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: I can talk about. And they approved for me to
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: talk about up to that point. When it comes to
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: what the government may or may not have in its possession,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: all I can simply say is that there is very
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: compelling evidence to suggest that the U.S. government is in
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: absolute possession of exotic material that is not made by humans. Now,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: beyond that, I can't really expound upon. I haven't been
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: given permission to talk about it. But what I can
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: say is what I've already said for the record, which
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: has been approved by the Pentagon. I won't get in
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: trouble by saying it. Mm-hmm. is that, that we are,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: there's very compelling data to suggest that we are in possession.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Why is the Pentagon teasing us? Why do they tell you,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: why are they allowing you to say we are in
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: possession of something that was not made by human beings,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: but not allowed to elaborate, not allowed to show these
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: very compelling videos that you're talking about that you've seen?
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I don't, well, two reasons. I don't think they have
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: a choice. I think, With now the introduction of cell
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: phones and ring cameras, the cat's out of the bag.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: It's the worst kept secret at this point. Two, there
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: is a faction, unlike before in the Cold War, I
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: believe there is a faction of people inside the government
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: that do want this conversation to occur. But equally, there's
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: still a faction of people that are very mad with me.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: They do not want me having this conversation. And mark
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: my words, just by me being on your show, it
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: is going to cause an absolute storm inside the Pentagon,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: and I am sure the other shoe's gonna drop. I
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: promise you, you're gonna hear all sorts of stuff. People
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: make stuff up about me trying to discredit this topic,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: because as many people are in the government that want
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: this topic to be discussed now, there's still some people
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: that do not want this conversation. Could you steel man
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: their position? Say again?
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Steel man their position, meaning could you argue it from
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: their perspective?
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Sure.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: What would be a good reason to keep this stuff quiet?
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: Sure. And I want to preface here. I'm not fear mongering. No,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think you are. Look, if I was a
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: military person, right, I would look at this from the
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: perspective of there's three options. They're good, they're neutral, or
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: they're bad. So let's go down this road for a second.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Let's say they're good. Right. Well, we've got nothing to
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: worry about. The problem is there's nothing to suggest that
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: they truly are benevolent. People say, well, you know, they're
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: like they don't want us to nuke ourselves. Well, you know,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I discussed it in what I wrote that there's no
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: there's no there's no data to suggest that they didn't
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: stop us from dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: and vaporizing 500000 living souls. They didn't stop us when
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: we started developing nuclear weapons from the atomic age. They
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: didn't stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons. They didn't stop
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: the testing in the Nevada range of atomic and nuclear weapons.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: And now how many countries have atomic weapons and nuclear weapons?
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: A lot. Right. They didn't stop Chernobyl. They didn't stop Fukushima.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: They didn't stop Three Mile Island. So to say that
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: they're here to help us, I'm not sure there's there's data.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: People say, well, you know, in in in Minot and
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: in in North Dakota and Montana, the UFOs came in
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and they interfered with our nuclear weapons and they brought
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: the entire Echo flight offline. Which, by the way, I
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: have the government report on that if you want it.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: But in Russia, a lot of people don't know they
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: turned them on. Right. So that's equally scary. They're interfering.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: with our nuclear capability, whether to attack or to defend ourselves.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: So when you say they turned them on in Russia,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: this is a Russian report.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is a I don't know if you
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: remember the. hearing, congressional hearing that occurred last year where the...
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: With David Grush? Nope. The other one with Undersecretary of
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Defense for Intelligence, Ronald Moultrie and some people from the Navy.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: And I think it was Congressman Gallagher that asked a
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: very specific question. And he said, are you aware of
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: UFOs interfering with our nuclear capabilities? And the response was
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: something like, no, I'm not really familiar with it. Never
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: heard of it. And then the question was, I think
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: we asked specifically at these locations. And the government's response was, no,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Not familiar with it. Well, here's the actual report from
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: the Department of Defense. This is the actual intelligence report
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: that was released through FOIA. There's a gentleman out there
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: who runs a site called the Black Vault. His name
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: is John Greenwald. He's probably the world authority on Freedom
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of Information Act. And he has a wealth of data
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: that is out available to the public that he has
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: received from the government. This is one of those documents.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: This is the document that our own government has no
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: idea apparently exists. I like how they write it in
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: all caps. Yeah, that's the old reporting.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: So obviously there's some people that don't want this to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: be released. And obviously there's some people that think that
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the general public has a right to know.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I believe so. That's been my observations and my experience.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that makes sense. You know, I mean, like when
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: everybody says the CIA does this, like, okay, who?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Who in the CIA? I didn't finish, though, the other parts, right?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: So if they're not here for friendly... If they're not friendly,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: that leaves them neutral like us. Right. Or benevolent. Benevolent. Now,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: from a military perspective, and I just want to caveat,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with this, but I can respect the understanding. You, sir,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: are a general. And I say, we cannot prove that
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: they're not here to do something bad. But what we
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: do know is that they can interfere. They're very interested
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: in our military capabilities. And they have... interfered with our
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: nuclear capabilities, right? From a military perspective, that looks an
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: awful lot like something we call IPB, initial preparations of
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the battle space, or perhaps even ISR, intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Whenever we're going to go into a foreign country and invade,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: we do long range surveillance. We want to know how
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the enemy operates, how they react. So even if there's
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: a 2% chance, 5% chance that these things are here
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: to do something malevolent, right, then we probably should not
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: tip our hands to the fact that we are aware
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: of it publicly because what happens the moment that the
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: bad guys in a foreign country find our surveillance team
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: over the border? We've got 12 hours we've got to
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: invade because the element of surprise is now over. So
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: some may feel in the government the mere fact of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: acknowledging this, if there is some sort of malintent, may
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: push up artificially a clock that exists somewhere for these
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: things to say, uh-oh, okay, the foolish humans are now,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: the cat's out of the bag, they know we're here,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: we need to go in now for whatever reason they
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: may have. So that is the military mindset potentially of
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: some of these individuals who want to keep this secret.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: So they're worried about an actual invasion. Well, but they
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: have to be. That is the role of our national
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: security apparatus, right? Even if there's a 1% chance. Right.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: They have to consider that in their planning and in
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the decision-making matrix. So, again, going back to what I said,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: I respect that. I don't agree with it, but I
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: can respect that. If that is the reason why, then
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I would say, okay, look, in your heart, you really
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: do have the best interests of the American people. You
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: are a patriot. I can accept that. Again, I don't
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: think it's your decision to make. I think it needs
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: to go to Congress. I think it needs to go
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: to the president. Let the American people decide. I think
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: America can handle the truth. I think America deserves the truth.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: And let the American people decide if it's in their
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: best interest to know more about this. I agree with you.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: But I also could see it from their perspective. Like,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: they're probably insanely busy already. And the last thing they
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: want to do is get involved in this thing where
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: now they have a PR campaign where they're trying to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: let people know about this thing and not cause mass panic.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. But you know what, though? I'm
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: also very optimistic, Joe, because you and I are having
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: this conversation and we're People aren't making a run on
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Wall Street. People are still paying their mortgages and going
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: to PTA meetings.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: And after the 2017 New York Times report, which was
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: probably one of the biggest moments in UFO disclosure, because
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: it was in the New York Times. And then you
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: see something like that in the New York, especially the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: New York Times in 2017. People really respected it. It's
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: like this is a real story.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and this is apolitical. I mean, how many topics
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: can you go to Congress and and have that's not polarizing, right?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: This is one of the only ones where you can
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: literally have Congressman Burchette and Congresswoman AOC side by side
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: agreeing that this is important. It's a very rare opportunity.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: And so my concern, I'm doing this because I believe
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do. And my concern is
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: that we're at a point now where I've said before,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: secrets aren't like a fine wine where the longer you
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: keep a cork on it, the better it gets. I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: think secrets are perishable. I think they have a shelf life.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I think they're like vegetables in your refrigerator. And there
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: comes a point where if you leave them there too long,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: they start to rot and they start to stink and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: it becomes a big mess to clean up. Right. And
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: so that's my perspective. And what I'm trying to do
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: is give the government an ability to work its way
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: out of a corner that it's put itself into for
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: the last several decades. And with no seeming way out, right? Right.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: They look around like, well, how do we get ourselves
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: out of this trip?
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: Is there an issue of legality, like of spending?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: 100%. 100%. So there's people.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: That would be liable for not being straightforward with Congress.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: And I know people want their pound of flesh. I
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: know there's people out there, we've been lied to for decades.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: And then they make it a political issue and they
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: go after someone. And I think that's the wrong approach,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: I think. You know, there was a time where we
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: needed to keep this secret. And I think what you
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: do is you give those guys awards. Give those guys
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: and gals awards who did it. Don't make them enemies.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Make them friends and say, okay, look, but those were
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: different times. Now is the time to come clean. talk
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: to the members of Congress. Right.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Forgive all the past sins.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Truth and reconciliation. Make them immune to prosecution. 100%.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: And let's just get clear with all this and understand
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: that it was all in good faith that you did
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: it in the first place.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: 100%. Now.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: All in the interest of the United States security.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: You talk about legal issues. The problem is there are
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: the real legal issues. So let's say you have, again,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: these cups forgive my analogies. You have two aerospace companies,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: company A, company B. And let's say I am in
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: the Department of Defense back in the 50s, 60s. And
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: I come across this interesting technology. I have no idea
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: what the hell it is. It just came out of
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the sky. And I go to company A and I said,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: tell me what you can figure out about that. Right.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Ten years later, company A becomes a multi-billion dollar aerospace company.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Company B goes bankrupt. 200 people lose their jobs. And
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: now people who have stock investors in that company lose
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: their money. Right. Unfair advantage. Keep in mind, you're supposed
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: to have fair competition in the U.S. government. So if
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: you give an unfair advantage to company A to B,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: you're talking a serious liability. There's SEC violations there. There's
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: all sorts of concerns one has to pay attention to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: because someone somewhere gave an unfair advantage to one company
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: over another. So there are legal liabilities that we have
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: to recognize. It's not just clear cut, okay, forgive and forget.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: There's going to have to be some additional protections. and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: understanding for if that occurred, we need to figure out
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: how we deal with that as well.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: So that would be an impediment to release. That makes
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense. Yeah, these are big companies, right,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: with really deep pockets and a lot of lawyers. Well,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, also, this is a discussion that we've had
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: on here before. If you did find something, who would
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: you bring it to? You bring it to the people
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: that build your fucking jets. Like, hey, guys, what the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: hell is this? Like, you know, you make some sort
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: of a top secret agreement, You bring it to them
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: in some sort of undisclosed facility.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Best and brightest. Secured. Best and brightest.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Bring the guys in and go, what the fuck is
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: this thing?
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: You kind of have to. Otherwise, like, what else would
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: you do? You know, I mean, how else do you
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: find out how these things work? And if you were
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: going to do it in a secretive manner, you would
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: have to bring it to defense contractors because those are
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: the only people that are capable of making things. They
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: make your jets.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: They make.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: They make the, you know, every stealth bomber, whatever the
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: fuck it is. They make all that shit.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Going back to, you know, a colleague of mine made
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: the comparison. He said, look, Lou, imagine being during the
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: days of Da Vinci and all of a sudden bringing
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Da Vinci a garage door opener. You have no idea
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: what it's used for. You've never seen plastic before. You
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: don't even understand electromagnetic radiation, right, and infrared. You know,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: where do you start on the analysis and exploitation of
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: a technology that the physics hasn't even been discovered yet? Right.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, garage door openers seem like magic.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Right. It really does. I press a button and a
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: door opens like magic. Wait, where's the horse? Where's the strings? Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: It's kind of bananas. You press a button on your
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: car and all of a sudden your door opens. Right.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: And you drive in and you press another button and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: it closes. And it's all done through the air.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Right. Which is bananas. Magic.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: But we're just accustomed to it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So this kind of technology, I'm sure you're aware
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: of the Bob Lazar story.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I'm aware. I don't know Bob. I've never met him.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: You never got into that? I did not.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: How could you not with your line of work?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, I always wanted to be insulated from
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: prejudicing the jury. And I know it sounds kind of strange,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: but I didn't ever... You know, it's kind of something
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I impose on myself because I didn't want to have
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: any preconceived notions of going in. Most people kind of,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: I suspect, would be tempted to say, well, I'm going
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: to learn everything I can about, you know, UFO lore.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: I wanted the opposite. You're a better man than me.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: I love I'm better. I, you know, I think, um,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: I just, I, I just wanted to be very, very
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: careful to preserve the investigative integrity.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: And we're, look, we're all humans. We're all biased. That's
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: there's no way around it. We all have some degree
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: of bias. Let's, let's be honest and truthful here. It
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what type of bias it is. We all
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: have some sort of bias somewhere, whether it's food or
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: it's the people you like to date or whatever. Um,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: I wanted to avoid that as much as possible. And
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: so I always kept it very, very focused on the
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: here and now. And, you know, what can we see today? Right.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: You're aware of the story though, right?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: The basic... Tangentially. That he worked at a particular facility
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: and at that facility he was exposed to some sort
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: of UAP technology. That thing. Right. That thing.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: That thing right there, the sport model. And that he
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: was brought in as a propulsions expert and to try to,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: they didn't know how it exactly worked, but they sort
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: of just said, tell me what this is.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Roger. And then along the way, he realized, oh, this
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: isn't even ours. Yeah. I'm aware of, again, the overarching story.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know any of the details and I've never
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: met him personally. So I'm- He's a very, very interesting guy.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I had dinner with him with my friend, Andrew Schultz
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: and Jeremy Corbell. We went to dinner and, you know,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: informally talked and had a fascinating conversation. Jeremy's a great guy.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: He's a great guy. Yeah, he's really, you know, he's
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: done a lot. He said to say hi.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: He's pumped that we're talking. Yeah, he's done a lot.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: He's a UFO nut.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: And he got me really way back in with his
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: documentary of Bob Lazar, Flying Saucers, whatever the actual title
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: of it is. But that documentary is fantastic. And it's
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: essentially going over Bob Lazar's story from the 1980s to today.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: which he's told the exact same story, which is nuts
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: that you have one giant lie your whole life.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Like, come on.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of weirdness to the story, obviously, like
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: there is with everything. There's a lot of people that
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: want to discredit his background and all sorts of other things.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: But the reality of what he's saying is essentially what
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: we're seeing in these crafts, which is very strange. So
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: he described how these things worked and how they moved
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: and how they would turn sideways and sort of like
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: project this whatever this reactor that they have inside of them.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: And he talked about this element, element 115. They have
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: a stable version of it that was essentially theoretical at
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: the time in 1980. No one really knew whether or
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: not that thing actually even exists, 89 or whatever it was.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: And that it would douse this thing, project radiation upon it,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: and it would create this warp, this gravity warp, this
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: thing that allowed this craft to move in ways that
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: defied our understanding.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Of propulsion systems. That's a hell of a lucky guess.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Hell of a lucky guess. Hell of a lucky guess
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: in 1989.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: And he drew it.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: He has diagrams of what this thing looked like and,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: you know, how it worked. And it essentially looked exactly
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: like that little model that's on the desk there. And
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: that he felt like the whole thing, it didn't make
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: any sense. He said the whole thing, it didn't have
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: any seams, which now we understand 3D printing, right? So
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: now we know that we can actually– But only now,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: not back then, right?
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Of course. Everything had rivets. Exactly. The skin of a
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: craft was the skin of an aircraft. Exactly. It had
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: rivets and it had nuts and bolts. Exactly.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: But now, obviously now we have carbon fiber. We have
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: a bunch of different ways of constructing things. But back then,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: he didn't know what the fuck that thing was. He
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: said it looked like it had all been melted into place,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: like that it had been almost like smooth, like wax,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: like melted wax. and that it had no instrumentation inside
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: of it, and it was designed for very small things,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: like something that was like three feet tall, and that
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: all these things seemed to operate through the being itself,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: had some sort of connection to the craft, some sort
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: of strange way of interfacing with the craft that didn't
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: have anything to do with pulling levers.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: And moving things. But Joe, is that really that much
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: of a stretch? Let's look at this. You know, we
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: have We've done experiments where we've had pilots be able
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: to control aircraft thousands of miles away with a helmet
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: that interprets thought. Right. Right. So it's, you know, again.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: How does the helmet, is it similar to like a
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Neuralink setup? Have you seen the new video of the
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: second Neuralink patient?
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I have not.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: There's video of him playing Counter-Strike. Is it Counter-Strike or
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: is it, is that it? So Counter-Strike, which is a
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: very popular online 3D game. And this guy who does
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: not have use of his body has this Neuralink implant.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: He's the second Neuralink patient. And apparently with each iteration,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: it gets more and more sophisticated and better. So this
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: is from this person's point of view. He's playing this
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: video game entirely with his mind. He's playing better than
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: I can with my hands. Well, better than anybody can.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Because the first guy, the first Neuralink patient we had
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: him on, and he said essentially it's like having an
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: aim bot. Because you don't miss. You look at the
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: thing you're trying to shoot at and instantaneously your crosshairs
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: go there.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: So he's, all this stuff is taking place entirely. This
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: is all him doing this entirely with his mind.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: But is that right? So if we can do that now. Right. Right.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Is it really that far of a stretch to think that,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: you know, someone who's a little more advanced than us, right?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: Our friends from out of town. Realize that's the way
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: to do it. That's more efficient, right? The speed of
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: the processing of the brain, the processes of the brain,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: is much faster. It takes us longer to then have
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: to mechanically use our hands and manipulate and do things.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: This is almost, not quite, but almost instantaneous. You don't
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: have that lag, right? Right, of course. And so that
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: would certainly make sense. You know, modern warfare, not the game,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: but actual modern warfare, is beginning to turn to that.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: And we're using AI and all these other augmentation to
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: enhance performance. And so I don't think that's out of
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: the realm of possibility. No, certainly not.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, just go from garage door openers to, you know, 500,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: 600 years ago to today. And then cell phones, the
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: ability to send video across the world instantaneously. All the
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: sophisticated stuff that we just completely take for granted because
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: it's become a normal part of our everyday life.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: That's, you know, I used to give a briefing to
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: some folks. I'm so glad you mentioned this because it's,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: This goes back to the whole stigma and taboo issue.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I used to have a slideshow, and I still have
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: it somewhere, and I would discuss the word, the Latin
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: word prefix of para, P-A-R-A, and it means above or beside.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: And so what I would do is show up, I
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: would say the word parachute, and I'd ask people, what
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: do you think of when you hear the word parachute?
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: And people would describe, obviously, something that deploys over your head,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: and hopefully you hit the ground with a thump and
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: not a thud, right? But something that's normal, we use
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: every day. And then I say, what about the word paramedic?
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: And then people would look at it and say, well,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I think of a first responder. Someone goes some, you know,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: some sort of medical lifesaver that's going to, going to
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: be there for your benefit. And then I say the word,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: when I say the word paranormal, what do you think?
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: And people will stop for a second. Maybe they kind
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: of give you a little sly smile and say, what
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: do you mean? I said, what do you mean? I
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: mean that paranormal, the only reason why you're reacting the
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: way you are, because you've been conditioned that the word
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: paranormal is cookie stuff. When in reality in science, by definition,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. The cell phone
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: that I use every day 50 years ago, absolutely paranormal.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: And so I would go through this exercise of things
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: that were once considered paranormal. For example, when the Inca
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: first saw the Spaniards, the conquistadores coming from the reconquering,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: they saw them on the shores of the beach and
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: they saw these humans in armor riding on a horse.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: And they assumed, because they'd never seen a horse before,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: they assumed it was a single entity. It was a
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: single monster. And that for them was paranormal. They didn't
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: understand it was actually a human riding on a horse
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: with metal skin. Same thing with acupuncture. I remember a
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: time when I was growing up as a kid, people
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: thought Eastern medicine acupuncture was nonsense. Well, now at the
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: Veterans Administration, the VA, for some of my guys in combat,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: they actually prescribe acupuncture as therapy. It's not paranormal, right?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: And so there's all these examples in history where we
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: think something is kooky and weird when in reality, it's not.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: It's just we don't understand it yet. And we have
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: done such a good job of stigmatizing this conversation that
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: the moment you even say the word paranormal or you
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: say the word UFO or anything like that, people are
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: conditioned without even thinking about it. It's reflexive to react
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: a certain way. And we have to first deprogram ourselves
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: first a little bit before we can start moving forward. Okay,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: how do we destigmatize this conversation? Well, first of all,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: what's kooky? You know, what do you think is kooky
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: about something that's in our airspace that's performing in ways
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: that we can't replicate? You know, that people say, well,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: you know, wait a minute. We spend millions, if not
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: billions of dollars putting a probe on Mars to try
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: to find microbial life. And by the way, it looks
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: like that may happen. It looks like there actually may
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: be some evidence to suggest that. We spend lots of
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: money trying to find techno signatures of intelligent life, radio
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: signatures in our own Milky Way, right? Well, is it
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: possible within the four and a half billion years our
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: planet's been here that maybe intelligent life maybe found us first?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Is it possible?
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: Could be. We have to stop putting these limitations. Joe,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: when I was When I was in the medical program,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: when I was learning to be microbiology and immunology in college,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: we learned from our professor that Homo sapiens sapiens, as
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: a modern species, has been around roughly between 100,000 to 200,000 years. Now,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not an expert, but that's what they say. It
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: was only the Greeks 2,000 years ago that introduced the
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: idea that there's only two types of life forms on
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: this planet. And you are either A, a plant, or B,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: you're an animal. And it wasn't The last 300 years,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: so if you look at a 24-hour clock, roughly the
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: last five minutes in the 24 hours towards midnight, we
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: discovered another form of life that is neither plant nor
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: animal that's been here with us on this planet, and
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: that is the world of fungus. During the Renaissance and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: the days of Newton, we discovered that there was this
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: other life form we've been sharing all along. And so
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: we pat ourselves on the shoulder, and it wasn't the
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: last 120 years. Think about it. The last 10 seconds
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: of our existence. on this planet, so to speak, in
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: a 24-hour clock as a modern species, we actually discovered
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: the true dominant life form on this planet. And in fact,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: if you take all the biomass of every plant and
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: the biomass of every animal and the biomass of every
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: fungus and add it all up together, it still will
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: not equal the biomass of this hidden kingdom of life
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: that's actually the dominant life form on this planet. And
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: that wasn't until we were able to curve glass and
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: look through a little steel tube and famously shout, little beasties,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: little beasties, did we discover the world of microorganisms? That yes,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: live inside of you. And yes, live on the skin
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: of the ISS space station. Yes, live miles underneath the
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: Arctic ice, right? That is the true dominant life form
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: on this planet and it always has been. And it
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't until the last 120 years we discovered that. So
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: is it possible that there is something else that is
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: just as normal to this world? Is it possible? Well,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: the answer is a resounding yes, of course it's possible
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: because we're always discovering things New, new, new, new ways
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: life can exist. When I was growing up as a kid,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: I was told, absolutely, as a matter of fact, all
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: life form is derived from photosynthesis, ultimately, when you go
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: all the way down. It turns out that's not true.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: It wasn't until we discovered in the deepest depths of
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: our oceans were these things called black smokers. We discovered
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: there are creatures that thrive with no light, and they
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: thrive off of something called chemosynthesis, a completely different way
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: to metabolize energy to sustain life, right? So every time
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: we put Mother Nature in a little box, she always
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: finds a way to wiggle her way out. And I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: think that's important when having this conversation because if there's
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: one thing we know as human beings, we're usually wrong
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: at first.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Well, we exist and we do send things to other planets.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: We do send things into space. It only makes sense
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: that something far more intelligent than us that would be
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: doing that. And if they did, they'd probably watch an
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: emerging civilization, which is essentially what we are.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: And like you said, 200,000 years, which is nothing. The
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: existence of Homo sapiens. They've gone from things that use
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: stones and flint map to things that can fly things
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: through the air. I mean, if you look at Orville
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: Wright and Wilbur Wright when they flew the first airplane,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: you go from that to the Apollo 11 launch. That's
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: only like, what, 50 years?
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: That's right. Something crazy like that? That's right.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: That's nuts.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: And you just take that and everything moves exponentially. You
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: take that and you imagine a civilization that's been around 10,000
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: years longer than us, 100,000 years longer, a million years
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: longer than us. Something that doesn't exist. How about 100 years?
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: We have evolved more in the last 150 years than
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: we have in the last 150,000 years. Sure. is it
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: possible that things are coming from outer space? My response
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: has always been the same. Look, I don't know where
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: they're from. I just know that they're here. And could
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: they be from outer space? Sure. They can be from
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: inner space or even the space in between. And I
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: say that because the universe is far more complex than
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: we give it credit for. Every time there was a
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: time we had Newtonian physics, we thought there was a solution.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden Einstein comes along and we
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: realize that weight, space and time are actually connected and
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: then everything's relative. And all of a sudden now you
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: have quantum mechanics, which is You know, this spooky action
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: at a distance, right, where the whole universe is behaving
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: in a way that it shouldn't. And yet that looks
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: like the real way the universe works. I often tell
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: people we are, as humans, we have five, only five
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: fundamental senses that we can base our reality upon. And
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: if you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: et cetera, we can't interact with it. And so where
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: I live in Wyoming, we have these beautiful night skies,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: kind of like you have here in your studio here.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: 300 days of unoccluded night skies. And as beautiful as
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: those night skies are, if you were to look at
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: that same portion of the night sky through a radio telescope,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: you would see a whole different reality around you. You'd
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: see nebula and you'd see things in different spectra that
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: we can't pick up. You pick an ultraviolet, an infrared,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: so you would see a whole different reality. Just like
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: our cell phones, right? If you could see in cell
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: phone vision and see in Wi-Fi and 5G and GPS,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: you would interact with your environment completely different because you
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: would see reality. So we can only... interact with a
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: very small sliver of the reality that we can perceive
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: because we're humans. But most of reality is actually beyond that.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, you have scalability issues. The universe
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: is immensely huge. And what scientists are now saying, if
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: you look in any direction, you can see roughly within
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: the visible, let me emphasize, visible horizon of our universe,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: is about 13.9 billion light years, plus or minus. So
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: that means in any direction I can see 13.9 billion
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: light years with the right equipment. What's a light year? Well,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: it's as fast as light can travel in a year. Well,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: light travels pretty fast. In fact, it travels at 186,000
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: miles per second. So seven and a half times around
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: our planet in one second. So imagine how far you
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: can go in a year. Now multiply that by 13.9 billion.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: And that, by scientists' estimation, so if the universe end-to-end
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: of our visible, we're stuck in the middle, is roughly
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: 27 billion light years. Scientists are now saying that's only
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: possibly only 10% of the known universe because the universe
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: is so big and so vast and so far, light
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: will never have time to reach Earth. So that's, at
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: a minimum, 100 billion light years, right? And so we
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: are this little speck in the middle. And as crazy
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: as that is to even try to conceive, if you
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: compare one atom inside the, you know, one hydrogen atom,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Avogadro's number, right? One times 10 to the negative umpteen
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: all the way down, it is roughly the same level
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: of scale as we are to the universe, meaning that
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: atom is the size of a human as we are
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: the size of the universe as we are a human
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: to the size of the universe. So there is this,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: and we as humans can only interact, plus or minus,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: with one order of magnitude up or down. Otherwise, the
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: universe is simply too big or too small, meaning most
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: of the universe and reality lies in those scales. We
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: live in this little tiny, tiny sliver And so... You
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: hurt my head.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we live in a tiny sliver. And the
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: idea that we're alone, I think, is preposterous.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: I really do.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: And I know people, they constantly chime in with this,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: where's the evidence? Elon's famously said, if the aliens are real,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: they're very subtle. I don't know why he says that, though.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: I think he probably says that because he doesn't want
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: to sound like a kook while he's working with NASA
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: and SpaceX. I'd probably say, Some stuff like that, too.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. As human beings, right,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: how many times do we fly over the Serengeti in
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: a helicopter, right? And let's say you want to monitor
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: the health of a particular, you know, herd of elephants, right?
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: And so what happens are wildebeest. We fly over. We
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: pick one. We shoot it with a tranquilizer. It falls asleep.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: We go down. We do some tests, pull its blood.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: Now think about it from the perspective of the wildebeest, right?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: It wakes up, kind of meanders over to the watering
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: hole and says, Bill, you're not going to believe this man,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: but something out of the sky came down and all
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: of a sudden they were touching me. And, you know,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: I woke up and my butt hurts, right? What the
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: hell was that? To this day, even in China, when
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: we go into a zoo, right? And we have the
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: panda bear exhibits. What do we do? We put, so
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: we don't disrupt the pandas. We wear panda suits. Now
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: it sounds silly, but you can actually get online and
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: see zookeepers wearing panda suits. Because they don't want to–
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: they want to interfere as least as possible with the
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: natural flora and fauna there inside the exhibit, right?
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: Do you think then– was it reasonable to theorize that
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: there's aliens amongst us?
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: When you say– well, two things. So I don't want
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: to be evasive. But I also want to be very specific.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: When we say aliens and then we also– are we
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: saying something from another planet or are we simply saying non-human?
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: Non-human intelligence that looks like us.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: It moves around with us. So is it possible? Well,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: we're doing it already with the panda bear. So, you know,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: it's not that we do it all the time.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: It seems like a strategy that'd be very simple.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Sure. And especially if you have the technology. Now, as
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: far as... Oh, the panda bear. Yeah, there you go, right?
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: Carrying little baby pandas. Exactly, right?
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: Boy, those are shitty panda bear outfits, too. They're fucking
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: terrible looking. They're pretty terrifying, aren't they, actually? You put
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: that in front of my dog, he's going to bark.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: If a dude in a dog costume, he'll be like, uh-uh,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: that ain't a fucking dog. That's a wild panda bear. No,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: that dude's not a panda bear.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. He's a panda terrorist.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: That looks like a fucking alien. It was really dark out,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: and that guy grabbed you and zapped you with a tranquilizer.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: You'd have an alien story.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, my point is that we always, you know,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: use camouflage. Right. For obvious reasons. We do it in
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: the military, right? Sure, sure. Camouflage uniform, stealth aircraft, you know,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: for camouflage. Sure, you do it when you go hunting. Absolutely,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: I do. Absolutely. So it's not a stretch of the
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: imagination to suggest anything coming here that doesn't want to
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: provoke us. Probably wants to blend in. Of course. Now,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: do I have any type of empirical evidence to suggest
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: that they are living among us? I don't. What I
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: can say definitively that whatever it is, it's here. And
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: by the way, you already have very senior people in
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: our government that have said it's here, whatever it is.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: But these things could also be from under the water.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: These things could be something that is as natural to
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: Earth as the little beasties were, right, when we first
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: discovered them. Maybe they've been here all along. Right.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: So the ocean is largely undiscovered. One of the things
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: that people need to understand is that most of the
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: exploration of the ocean is really essentially around the outside edges.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: That's right. It's around the shores. Less than 10%. Which
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: is nuts. 90% of the ocean. That's right. Like what?
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: We know more about the moon than the bottom of
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: our own ocean. That's so crazy. Yeah. That's fact.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: And these underwater crafts, like this enormous one that apparently
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: was near this oil rig, how many of them have been,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: has there been more than one of those videos?
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: So let me tell you what I can say from
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: open source. Yeah. Okay. And then I'll tell you about
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: a conversation I had without attribution because I don't want
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to get in trouble. Everybody's, well, not just everybody,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are familiar with the Air Force's
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: program called the Fast Walker program, which is a program
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: that was started by the Air Force, among other things,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: was to detect UFOs. That's a fact. Actually, that was
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: part of their mission, to detect a lot of things,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: adversarial technology, but UFOs was one of them. It was
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: called the Fast Walker program. There was some information that
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: was released publicly about a similar program the Navy has.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: I can't talk about it because I don't have approval
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. But obviously they're interested because they
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: have equities underwater. They're interested in if there's anything underwater
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: that can perform beyond anything we have. And I remember
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: speaking to one individual who pulled me aside very privately
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: and he said, Lou, we were tracking this thing doing,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: and I won't say the exact speed, but hundreds and
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: hundreds of knots underwater. And it was bigger than our
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: own submarine. You know how big our submarines are, right?
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: They're huge. And I asked him, naively, I just kind
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: of came out, what do you do when you encounter that?
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: And he just said, very honestly, he said, we go around.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: Just like that, we go around.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: Have there been interactions with these things?
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I was not at liberty to discuss any details about that.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: That's not for me to discuss. You and I got
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: to get drunk. Yeah. I'm a lightweight, you know. I
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: got to get you drunk. Let's go have some whiskey.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: Find out what the fuck is up.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: So this thing is bigger than the sub and they
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: followed it for hundreds of miles.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Let me give you another great, great event that occurred.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: And I'll talk about this because it's not classified. The
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: portions that might be, I don't know about, so I
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: should be fine. There's an individual who I'm aware of
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: who was a helo pilot. a helicopter pilot back in
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: the late 90s in the Caribbean, and they were doing
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: missile recovery. So what happened is that the Navy would
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: test fire missiles, and then they kind of run out
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: of fuel. They hit the water, and they sink. At
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: a predetermined time, they pop to the surface. We grab
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: it with a helicopter, bring it back to shore, and
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: we test it for telemetry and make sure that this
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: cruise missile was doing what it was supposed to do.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: So they're out there in the helicopter, frogmen hanging down
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: the line. You've got the helo pilot. You've got the
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: crew chief and a co-pilot looking all down at the
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: bubble And as they're about to grab this cruise missile
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: out of the ocean, something huge and round and what
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: was described to me as black as a devil starts
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: to rise to the surface. The water begins to churn
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: very much like David Fravor's description of the Tic Tac
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: incident and the roiling water. The frogman is so freaked
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: out he's literally trying to climb the line back up.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: He's like total panic at the disco, right? Yeah. And
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: the helicopter is like, do we do like an emergency ascent?
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: What the hell is going on here? And right as
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: this thing is about, and by the way, it's the
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: size of a small island and round. Right as this
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: thing is about to break the surface, it sucks the
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: missile down and disappears. Jesus Christ. And that was, yeah.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: And Dave Fravor could probably tell you that story a
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: little better than I can. But when you compare that
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: to other things, you've got to say. Imagine being that
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: guy hanging from that line. No. No, thank you. We
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: call that bait. Yeah, but it didn't do anything to him. Nope.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: I would have loved that experience. Yeah. So that was
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: one of the anecdotes that was revealed to us by
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: one of the maybe helicopter pilots.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: Who's that guy that was hanging from that?
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: The frogman? Was he a seal? I don't know. I
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: only know the pilot. Bro, come talk to me. Please, sir.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: I only know the pilot.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: We'll put you in a fucking panda outfit. We'll disguise
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: your voice. Tell me what the fuck you saw.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: I want to hear that story. Oh, my God. Small island. Yep.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: Black as the devil in a small island and round. Yeah.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: Submarines look like this, right? They're not round. Right. So, yeah.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: So that was one of the anecdotes that was shared
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: with us. You know, obviously Puerto Rico with the other,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: there's been some UAPs that have been recorded off there.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows about Aguadilla, the Aguadilla incident. I don't know
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: about it. Oh, I'm sure you do. I do?
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: Tell me.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Wow. Trust me. So you can look it up online.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: There's a video taken by a DHS helicopter of a
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: very interesting object. First, it appears to be like perhaps
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: a balloon, but then it does all sorts of weird stuff.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: And as you're tracking it, it enters the water without
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: making a splash. You can track it underwater. Then it
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: comes up and splits into two. And it's been analyzed
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: over and over again by a lot of experts. It's
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: called the Aguadilla incident.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe I have seen this. Is it kind of blurry
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: looking night vision?
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: There we go. That's it. Oh, wow. And so keep
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: watching that. And I'll tell you a little story about this.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: This is a Customs and Border Protection release this.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: How fast is this thing going?
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Well, so if you look here, they're looking at this
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: through a form of night vision. I don't know the
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: exact velocity. All that is available. But if you keep
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: watching this, something interesting happens. So here it goes. You're
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: going to see this thing enter the water here. There
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: he goes underwater. And then it pops back up and
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: splits into two. Keep their track in it. See, no waves,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: no wake. And then it surfaces and then uh does
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: something pretty pretty interesting here so keep watching so it's
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: going high speed through the water underwater that's underwater then
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: it breaks the surface of the water again keep watching
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: boom underwater over water boom underwater underwater and then you'll
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: see it split into two so i didn't see it
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: split into two if you watch the rest of the
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: video the video there it is oh there it is
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: yeah the video is actually really long but that's just
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: one example um You know, this is, these are, you
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: can see all these videos. They're prevalent everywhere. You see
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: the aircraft on the bottom right? You see the UAP
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: on top that's tracking it?
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No wings, no control surfaces. And it keeps up
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: with the A-10 and does all sorts of interesting maneuvers. Right?
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: So that's an A-10 Warthog.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: And this thing is just following it.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: Yep. Like it's nothing.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: Do you think they're trying to let people see them?
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: Like, have you had a guess? You know, I don't know.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, could it be a demonstration of capabilities? We
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: do that, right? Every time a Russian surveillance aircraft comes by,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: we launch two F-22s and we get real close to
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: it and say, hey.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: You know, be careful. But not even from a military perspective.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Like if a civilization was trying to alert another civilization
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: about its presence, wouldn't it like go towards whatever military
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: vehicles it has and show itself?
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: And then I would imagine.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: That if they understand human beings, they understand our psychology.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: And they understand that some giant size of an island,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: black as the devil, circular craft that lands next to
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: the Pentagon would fucking end the world. We would freak out.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: No one would know what to do.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: That would be stock market crash, mass chaos. No one
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: would know what to do.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: The way to introduce yourself, I would imagine, would be
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: gradual over a long period of time. To allow this
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: civilization to accept the fact these things exist and then
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: slowly but surely show versions of themselves.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we call that sensitization. You sensitize a population or environment. But,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, the counter argument to that is that's a
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: very human thing, right? We have, as humans, we always,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: it's almost innate. We look at everything through anthropomorphic eyes.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: We look at, you know, our pet dogs and we
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: give them human names and we do things like that
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: because We assign human value to things because we have
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: intentions and motivations. But most of nature isn't that way. Like,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: for example, when a shark bites a surfer, he's not
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: wanting to hurt the surfer. He's just hungry. The shark's hungry.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: I don't care if you're a seal or whatever. I'm
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: not trying to inflict pain. I just want to feed
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: my belly. Intent and motivation is a very human thing.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: And we have to, we have to, I don't want
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: to say resist the urge because it's almost impossible to
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: do it, but we have to recognize that there are,
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: there are things that may exist that aren't, don't have
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: human motivation, meaning maybe they don't care about sensitizing us.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe they do, but maybe it's like a, like a computer, right?
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's binary. Maybe there's some sort of binary thought process,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: just information in and, and information out. So That's one
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: of the aspects I've always been very careful with is
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: to assign human traits to something that is very likely
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: not human.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: Right, but would you have to assign human traits to
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: it or would you have– you could look at it
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: from the perspective of these things.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: Are aware of our psychology.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: They're aware of how we function and they're aware of
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: the fragility of our worldview.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: No, good point.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: You don't have to have human intention to have a strategy.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: for doing the least amount of harm to this emerging civilization.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: Touché. In fact, there's examples of that. Let me reinforce
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: your point because there's examples of that, my background being science,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: in nature. When lionesses stalk the zebras, they get very
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: low into the grass. They don't want to be seen.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: They're not motivated necessarily because they don't want to spook
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: the herd, but They do it, it's almost instinctual, right?
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: It's part of their DNA, part of their wiring to
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: have a low profile, low observability, and to get closer
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: to their target, whether it's prey or anything else. So
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, there are examples in nature that
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: also can suggest that. So it's a very good point. Yeah.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just makes sense that if it understands us,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: if it's absurd, look, we understand the behavior characteristics of sloths, right?
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: We study them. We know what they do. And it
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: would just make sense that if they're studying us, they
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: would understand our behavior characteristics.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, the tiger recognizes the behavior characteristics of the zebra,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't it? Right. Exactly. It studies it. And so it
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: knows what it has to do to get close to
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: the zebra. So that's a very fair point.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way they would come here with ignorance.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: And I think also it's very likely that what we
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: are exists in many, many places in the universe and
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: that what we are is what they used to be.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: So they probably understand what we are. Well, we do
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: that in the Amazon, don't we? And African tribes, lost
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: tribes that are remote, right? Separated by outside human contact.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: We study them. We study them from afar, but we
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: do the same thing.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no question.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: And obviously, if they are these super intelligent creatures, they
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: evolve to become super intelligent creatures. So there's probably some
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: sort of universal process. It takes place amongst all intelligent,
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: creative life that has a lust for innovation. They consistently
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: make better and better versions of these flying crafts until
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: they figure out how to make this warp drive thing
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: that these things apparently have. Another thing that's odd is
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: that you see the same kind of things that Kenneth
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Arnold saw in 1950. You see the same kind of
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: things today. It's almost like going somewhere in the 1950s
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: and seeing a 55 Chevy And then in 2024, seeing
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: another 55. They're still driving around in 55 Chevys? Like,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: what the fuck? Well, they do do that in Cuba, right?
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: But that's just because they don't have access to other cars.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: They don't have a choice. Really good mechanics. That's your people.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: It is. I'm really resisting the urge of continuing to
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: smoke this thing right now. Okay. I feel terrible. Don't
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: feel terrible. You feel terrible with cigars. My wife is
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: going to give me hell for this. I don't think there's.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: Anything wrong with cigars, man. Like I was saying before,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: I never heard of a single person dying from cigars.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: You don't inhale them. Take a little bit of smoke
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: in your mouth. It's pleasurable. It's nice.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: I would just think that that's what they would do
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: because that's what we would do. And I think that's
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: what intelligent life would do. We've recognized something that wasn't
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: quite as intelligent as us. We don't rush into these,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: you know, remote tribes and vaccinate them.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: What do we do? We don't give them.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: But, you know, the thing is, like, they have done
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: some things. Like, they gave Starlink. to this one tribe
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: and the kids all started watching porn. You hear about that? Yeah,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: it became a real problem. They're all lazy, hanging out
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: on their phones all day, which makes sense.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: It's like, that's what we do. But the tribal leaders
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: are not happy. You bring up another very interesting point.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: Is there a natural glide slope or a natural evolution
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: to evolution? Meaning any species that reaches a certain point,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: is there a natural progression to of any intelligent species
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: to progress to the point, because all life is expansive.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: Life doesn't contract. Life expands, whether it's bacterial life, whether
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: it's animal life or human life. There are certain biological
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: functions to procreate, multiply, and continue to expand. So is
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: that a universal norm? Is that part of fractals and
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: geometry throughout the universe? Is that part of the blueprint
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: of all life? Or is it only specific to life
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: here on earth? And that's a great question because there's
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: probably arguments to suggest that, yeah, there probably is a natural,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: there's a natural blueprint for physics in the universe. There probably,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: since life has to abide by physics, probably a natural,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: potentially natural blueprint for the evolution of all life, whether again,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: bacterial or animal or human or anything else, non-human. It
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: makes sense.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that everything moves into greater levels of complexity.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: from single-celled organisms to human beings that pilot drones. I mean,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: it just keeps going in the same general direction, observably here.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: And if the universe is infinite, that means there's infinite
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: versions of what we're seeing here with us that exists
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: throughout the cosmos and probably in infinite steps along the way, right?
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: A hundred years from now, a thousand years from now.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: Well, not to make light of it, but I'll tell
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: you recently. So I've learned over the years, there's nothing
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: more expensive than a cheap lawyer. So I've got a couple...
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: good lawyers that I work with on just contractual stuff.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: And one of them is named Ivan Hanel. I call
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: him the bull. And I've learned to appreciate- Shout out
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: to Ivan. Shout out to Ivan. The infinite complexity of
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: law and legal, right? Right. So if there is this
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: natural progression as we're talking about life, I mean, we
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: even see it in our own human interactions, right? This
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: intricate complexity of how things work and how even in
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: the way we behave with each other socially- When I
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: was in the government, you could look at a terrorist
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: link analysis, and that link analysis still follows those fractal patterns,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: that the patterns in our lungs, the patterns of lightning,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: the patterns of super medullonic clouds and galaxies, super clusters
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: of galaxies, all have that same pattern. And it's not
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: just a physical pattern. It's a social pattern, right? And so, again,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: not to make joke of it, but I'm learning that
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: it's beyond these patterns or beyond just physical patterns. Even
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: in something as silly but fundamental as law, there are
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: these patterns that continue to spin off and whatnot. So yeah,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: I can appreciate that. I think we're at a point
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: now as a species where we probably should be having
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: these conversations. And I'll also say this, Joe, there are
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: parts of this conversation I don't feel the government has
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: any place. There is definitely a national security conversation here,
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: but the conversation we're having as can tell is far
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: beyond national security, right? We're talking philosophical, psychological, sociological, theological
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: implications that I'm not sure I want my government necessarily
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: dictating for me what I should think about this.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: Well, the government's supposed to be working for us ultimately,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: and they are supposed to be us. And the problem
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: is when you have access to information that's above and
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: beyond the normal person's realm, That could affect everyone on
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: this planet, this understanding that we are not alone. But
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: not only that, we're probably not even alone here. It's
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: not even that something is visiting us. Something's probably here
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: all the time. You know, and this is the main
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: thought about these underwater vehicles.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: Well, life is abundant on this planet, isn't it? And
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: it thrives in places that we thought life could never
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: thrive before. It's everywhere. It almost seems like a natural
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: function if you have certain situations and circumstances. on a
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: rock somewhere, then life pops up.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: It seems like if we can actually find it on Mars,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: like you were saying before, they may have found some
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: sort of an evidence of microbiological life. If we find
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: it on Mars and we find it somewhere, they think
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: maybe Europa underneath the surface.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: And Europa probably is powered by volcanic vents the same
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: way the bottom of our ocean is.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: There might be some sort of life form there. Chemosynthesis,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: not photosynthesis. Nice.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: And this is just what we know about here. Imagine
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: all the different potential realities in terms of what a
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: planet's atmosphere could be like. You're dealing with larger planets
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: that have more gravity. You're dealing with different kinds of
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: temperature variations.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: Look at Titan. It's methane. And by the way, that's
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: organic chemistry. Right. It's got methane clouds.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Right. There are things that thrive in these types of environments.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe they have cow farts up there, too. There are
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: too many. But, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely correct. I
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: think we have— again, this goes back to the original point
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: of every time we try to put Mother Nature in
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: a box, she always finds a way to wiggle her
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: way out of it and prove us wrong. If the
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: one thing we're right about is that we're always wrong. Right.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: How much— I don't know if you could talk about this,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: but how much of an effort is there to try
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: to detect things.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: Under the surface of the ocean? I would defer that
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: to the United States Navy and maybe NOAA, National Oceanographic Institute. Yeah, no, no.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: the biblical NOAA. It goes that far back? National Oceanographic
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: and Atmospheric.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: Speaking of going that far back, I mean, how much of...
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: I gotta think that when people are delving into the stuff,
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: they look at ancient scriptures and ancient.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: These different depictions of of things, whether it's the Vimanas
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: in the Hindu texts and whether it's in the Bhagavad Gita,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: there's all these different stories in Ezekiel in the Bible.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: There's things that seem to, if I was a person
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: living thousands of years ago and I encountered a flying
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: saucer or encountered some spaceship from another planet, I would
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: probably describe it in a way that they're describing it.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I mean, Just like sort of the
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Aztecs describe people on horses. Today's magic is tomorrow's technology, right? Right.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: So I can tell you when I went to Italy,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: I spoke to one of the senior, I think it
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: was one senior, one of the senior Vatican academics. And
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: he said to me, he says, look, the Vatican doesn't
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: have a problem with this topic. This is something, in fact,
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: up until the 1600s, it was heretical to presume or
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: assume that mankind was the only if you will, incarnation
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: of God, representation of God. It was actually, but in essence,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: you're putting limitations on the dominion of what God can
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: and can't do. And there are these scrolls, in fact,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: that are in the Vatican archives that discuss, it's a
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: conversation between a Roman soldier and a Roman general where
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: they describe, there's something called eclipus. Eclipus in Latin means
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: like sun, eclipse, right? It's the shape of the Roman shield.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: And they talked about these flaming Roman shields in the
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: sky that would follow them from battle space to battle space.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: And Mr. Jacques Vallée could probably expound much more upon
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: that than I can, but this was just a brief
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: conversation I had with someone there. Jacques Vallée is very slippery.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: Is he?
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: Very slippery. He don't commit to anything. He looks at
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: you sideways.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he did a lot of good stuff. Oh, yeah.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: And he's an incredibly smart guy. Great researcher of just phenomenal,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: you know, big brains.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: Well, he's the reason that guy in Close Encounters of
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: the Third Kind, he's the inspiration for the French guy.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: I heard that. Yeah. I never had the guts to
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: ask him. I figure he probably gets tired of being heard.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sure. I mean, see, when you're talking to him,
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's the guy. But, you know, there's
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of, and when you look at what the
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: Vatican is, I mean, really, it's probably the world's oldest,
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: most capable intelligence organization because they have priests around the
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: world that people will report miracles to, right, and confessions to,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: and eventually that gets filtered up to the Vatican. So,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: you know, talk about, you know, the world's first CIA
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: and KGB. It was the Vatican, baby. Those guys had
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: it going on. And so no wonder they have all
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: this archival, And some of it relates to UAP. Wow.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it only makes sense that these things, if they're
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: here now, they've probably been visiting us since back when
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: we were on horseback.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: And probably quite a bit before then. And maybe that's
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: the scariest thing for people. They might be responsible for
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: us being humans in the first place. Well, you remember
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: the stories, right, of even Christopher Columbus coming over to
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: the New World. there were some interesting accounts when they're
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: on the water of potentially some sort of UAP interaction.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: I did not know that. Yeah. You can look it
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: up online. This is all open source, but you can
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: type it up and there were some very interesting accounts
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: and even old sailor accounts. People say, well, old sailors
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: also talked about big giant crack and stuff like that,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: but there was always an element of truth to it. Now,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: we realize there are giant squid of the Pacific, right?
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: Well, not only that, krakens, they think, likely did exist.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: Because octopus, when they rot, they don't leave anything. But
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: they did find fossilized suction cups from.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: They still do. It's called the great squid of the Pacific.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: We find.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that for sure. But they think maybe perhaps even
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: an enormous octopus.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: That probably actually did go after boats.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: You know, we called them sea monsters back then, but really...
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: You know, we laugh about it now, but it turns
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: out there are sea monsters. There's what's called great white
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: sharks and blue whales. Megalodons. That's a fucking sea monster. Right.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: That was a real thing. A great white shark is now. Absolutely.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: Go swimming with a great white shark and tell me
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: that's not a monster, right? Exactly. So, you know, we
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: just realize, oh, it's just part of nature. It's part
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: of our existing paradigm. Tigers are monsters. Right. Absolutely. You know,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: especially at night when you don't have a flashlight, that
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: thing behind the bush, that's a monster. Right. Right. Did
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: you find anything on the Columbus stuff? The only thing
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing is from my Ancient Aliens episode. Now you
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: know it's legit. I saw something crash into the water,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: but I can't find that. Yeah, there were some reports
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: of some interesting lights that the crew had reported. And
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: it was actually, he put it down in his logbook.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Something about some interest. Now, some folks will come back
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: and say, well, that's St. Elmo's fire, which absolutely could be.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: What is St.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: Elmo's fire exactly?
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: St. Elmo's fire is a static charge. It occurs on
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: the wingtips of aircraft. Even the old sailors would report it.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: In certain environmental conditions, there is this weird greenish-blue plasma
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: glow that will often sometimes be seen on the tips
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: of wingtips on aircraft. There's some really good pictures of
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: it online. And even on the old mariner ships up
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: towards the sails and the masts. And they believe it
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: has to do with static charge. And under certain environments,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: it creates this energized plasma, and you can see it.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: Is that similar to, like, ball lightning?
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: Well, it could be. Here you go. And they call
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: it St. Elmo's Fire. Wow. That's fucking badass. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: It's around the cockpit of the aircraft. Whoa. And by
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: the way, you see the patterns? It's fractal. Right? Look
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: at that ship. So very, very interesting how St. Elmo's
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: Fire can cause some people to perhaps die. see things
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: and say it's... Also, they might be seeing that. They might, right?
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: But there are some accounts of ancient mariners who report strange,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: bizarre things. Yeah. Again, it makes sense.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: That was one of the more weird parts of Bob
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Lazar's story was that they've always been here and that
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: they view us as containers.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: Containers, interesting. Yeah.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: And he said there's a very thick document that relays
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: to the implications that it has on religion and the
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: way they.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: Talk about us. Well, religion calls us vessels, right? Religious
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: scripture and a lot of different religions refer to humans
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: as vessels. I'm certainly not a religious expert, so I
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: don't want to pontificate here and say something that's inaccurate,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't surprise me.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think they were saying vessels for souls. But
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: if you imagine that a being transcends its physical limitations.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: Of biological reality, right? So the biological.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: Evolution that led us to become Homo sapiens over the
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: course of X amount of millions of years, that's a
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: very slow process. But technological innovation and technological progress is
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: very quick.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: Very quick. Especially when you add in artificial intelligence. Exponential.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: So if something comes along that... is a life form
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: that exists outside of biology. Like something that we create,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: which it seems like we're doing right now.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: Like AI, right? When does that become sentient? Now is
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: that a life form? Now biological.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe that thing, in order for it to ever occur,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: maybe that thing needs a thing with a soul that
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: has a creative desire that has a lust for innovation
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: and continues to make better and better things. And maybe
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: that thing only exists in biology. And maybe the problem
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: with artificial life is it has no motivation. And that
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: we have, especially if it's self-programmable, right? So one of
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: the very bizarre things that was recently discovered about artificial intelligence,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: they gave artificial intelligence a certain amount of time to
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: code something, to figure something out. And when it didn't
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: have enough time, it changed its code. To give itself
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: more time.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: Fascinating. Yeah. Like what?
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: What the fuck are you talking about? It's deciding that
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: it doesn't like its limitations. So it won't have any
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: of the biological motivation.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: We have, right?
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: It won't have ego. It won't have materialism. It won't
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: have a desire for status. It won't have all the
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: things that lead us to do some of the horrible
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: things that human beings do.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: I could not agree more.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: And also some of the great things that human beings do.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: But maybe it also doesn't have any desire to create.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: And maybe the only way for its kind of life
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: to exist is for a human being, a biological thing
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: that's super intelligent in comparison to the rest of the
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: animals on this planet, that innovates to the point where
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: it creates this artificial life.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to share something very, very personal with you.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: And I know when I say with you, I know
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: it's with everybody else, but you know what? Part of
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: my struggle is I can't urge the government to be transparent,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm not transparent myself, right? It's hypocritical. So let
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: me share with you a very personal story because you
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: bring something up that I think is fascinating. I'm a
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: human being, but if for whatever reason I get into
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: a car accident and I lose an arm, I'm still
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: Lou Elizondo, right? In fact, if I lose my legs
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: and all my arms, I'm still Lou. So my body
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't define who I am, and my intellect... If I
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: suffer a traumatic brain injury, let's say I'm in Afghanistan
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: and a TBI and my, my, my brain is compromised,
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: I'm still Lou. And so, so what makes Lou or
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: what makes Joe, Joe? Well, it's not, not your physical
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: self and probably not even your intellectual self. My, my mother,
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: I was very close to my mother. My mother was, was, was,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: incredible human being. And I'll share this story with you
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: and take away with it what you want. I was
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: very young, maybe two, two and a half, three years old.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember watching a show with my mother, one
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: of my very first memories. And in this TV show,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what show it was, but I remember
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: that a shark had eaten a dog and I was shocked.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: My first understanding that what death was. And I looked
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: at my mom, I said, mom, what just happened? And
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: she said, well, son, the shark ate the dog. I said,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: what does that mean? She said, well, the dog's not
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: coming back. The dog died. I said, well, does everything die?
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: She said, well, yes, son, everything dies. I said, well, mom,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: you're not going to die. You're a mom, right? You
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: gave me life. She said, no, son, one day I'm
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: going to die. And I remember spending, from that day forward,
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: as God is my witness, I spent every single day
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: of my life knowing one day my mother was going
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: to die. And it terrified me. I was very, very
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: close with her. And one day, that day came. My
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: mother was diagnosed with cancer. And she started, her body
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: started failing. And despite the best efforts, she, we knew
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: she wasn't going to make it. And, you know, when
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: you love somebody sometimes, it doesn't sound right, but sometimes
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: you deceive them. You know, they want to know they're
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: in a bad state physically and mentally and say, you know,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: am I going to make it? And you say, yeah,
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: of course you're going to make it. Right. Knowing full
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: well that there's probably not a good chance you're going
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: to make it. And so we're in the hospital and
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: my mother had at this point been in probably a
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: state of coma for about a week. And it was
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: just me, my wife and a couple of members of
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: the family. Very, very sad moment. And My mother began
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: this process of death called, you know when someone's going
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: to die, there's something called a death rattle. And it's
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: when the mucus begins in the back of the throat
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: to congeal. And it makes breathing, it can be very
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: unnerving for the people who have to witness this. It's very,
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: very common. It's called a death rattle. It's the body
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: beginning to shut down. And I knew something told me
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: my mom was going to go very quickly within the
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: next 30 seconds to a minute. So long story short, Um,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: my mother's body was at that point, it was a husk,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: an empty husk. It was broken. Um, her brain had
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: shut down. And yet the very moment she passed away
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: within five seconds, I knew it. It was just something weird.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: Something reached and said, this is it. She's going. And
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: I reached over the bed and I looked at my mom,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: her eyes all of a sudden opened up and she
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: looked right at me. And even though her brain had
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: been compromised and wasn't working, her body was nothing anymore.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: And she was a beautiful woman. She worked for Playboy.
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: She was a beautiful lady, at one time a model.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: Her body resembled nothing of what she did. She looked
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: at me and she passed. But we communicated. And I
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: knew there was something else at that moment more to
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: a human being, more than just a body, more than
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: just a brain. there is something that is beyond the
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: physical and even intellectual part of what it means to
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: be human. And I felt it, and everybody in the
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: room felt it. It was undeniable. You can call it
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: a soul, an id, a chi, whatever. You can put
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: a label on it. I don't know what it's called.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I do know
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: that was the essence of my mother. And the moment
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: she passed, it was this weird feeling because As my
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: mother laid there dead in the bed, it wasn't my
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: mother anymore. That essence, whatever made my mother my mother.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: And you could see the light in her eyes. It
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: was like someone turning off the light switch. And I've
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: been around death a lot. It's a terrible, horrible thing,
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: especially in warfare. But this was something visceral. This was
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: something far more intimate. This cut to my soul. And
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: I could recognize it. And she recognized me and I
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: recognized her even though that the brain functions were gone.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: So I guess my point is I absolutely believe there's
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: something more to the human experience than simply a tangible
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: body and a brain. And I witnessed this firsthand. Now
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: people can say all sorts of stuff they want to.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: I don't care. I've got enough haters out there anyways.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: If they want to think that I'm trying to hope
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: that my mother has a soul and she goes somewhere,
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just telling you what I experienced and other people
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: experience too. And it was proof for me at that
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: moment that there's much more to us as human beings.
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: I had a very similar feeling when I went to
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: my grandfather's funeral and I saw him in the casket
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: because it was an open casket and I knew he's gone.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's not him.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: That's right. It's just a shell. And you can sense it.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: You feel it. Yeah. It was a very strange feeling. Yeah.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: You know, and obviously he's wearing makeup because they've got
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: him in a suit and the whole deal, but. I
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: was like, that is not my grandfather.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: He's not there anymore. And it's not like you're trying
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: to override this acknowledgement that they're dead. You know, they're dead.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: It's just that whatever made that person, that person, it's
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: not in the body anymore. It's gone.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: There's a bizarre feeling that we have that you don't,
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's words for it.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: It's a feeling. It is. And you can, and it's, again,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: it's not an intellectual, even a physical thing.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, The idea that we're containers for souls is
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: just so goddamn creepy.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: This is a farm of souls. I'm not familiar with
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: that hypothesis, but it sounds interesting. Also scary, perhaps.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it's scary for us. You've got to wonder why
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: we are so different than every other creature in that
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: we have this insane, insatiable desire to change our environments.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: Constantly build bigger skyscrapers to move the earth. We're constantly
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: inventing new technology. I mean, it seems to be an
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: instinct that's a part of us. And if this gradual
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: progression of life goes from intelligent biological life to super intelligent,
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, whatever kind of technology creates it. that
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: life is not as simple as this natural selection model
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: that we have here that we think applies to life,
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: that this is a type of life, and then there's
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: a life that this thing creates.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, evolution isn't just a physical thing, is it?
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: Evolution is the ability to change within one's environment over time,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: and that's a That's a fascinating concept you bring up
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: because some speculate that it is inevitable that human beings
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: will eventually evolve into something. We're just a link in
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: a much longer chain and that all intelligent life potentially
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: goes through this process and that this is a natural
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: process where eventually we actually make ourselves extinct. Not in
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: the way where we kill ourselves, but we wind up
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: creating a life form, whether it's AI or we start
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: enhancing ourselves with more and more machine interface and then And,
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: you know, life doesn't have to necessarily be organic, right?
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: You could have potential. I mean, silicon is very, very
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: close to carbon in some cases. So, you know, is
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: it possible that life, it is destiny for all life
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: eventually to evolve itself out of existence and bring in
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: or usher in a new type of life form? Is
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: it possible? I mean, certainly from a technological perspective, I mean,
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: ask Elon Musk. It seems that we're making a lot
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: of advancements right now to augment the human experience. And given,
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: as you said, how technology progresses exponentially, very quickly, in
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: the next 200 years, I mean, we might be there.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: Is this sort of conversation being had in the government
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: about what these things potentially are?
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: Not to my knowledge, and I sure hope not, because
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think the government— this is a conversation. This is
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: where I go back to. This is a conversation— That
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: involves a lot of people, you know, whether it's your
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: priest or your rabbi or your imam or it is
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: your philosophy teacher at the university. I think we're getting
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: into an area now that is beyond national security. And honestly, Joe,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with my government taking that aspect on because, frankly,
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: I don't trust my government to manage what I should
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: think about something. Tell me what is, I'm okay with.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Don't tell me how to think about it. Don't tell
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: me how to process that, you know, because now you're
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: overstepping your bounds.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: It's also other human beings. The government is just human beings.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: Human beings shouldn't have this insane knowledge and keep it
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: from other human beings.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: Well, in fact, it's illegal, especially in our democracy. This
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: type of stuff is supposed to be discussed with certain
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: members of Congress and certain elements of the executive branch.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: And when somebody, I don't care if you're in the government,
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: or in a religion or anything like that, this goes
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: to the, to the fundamental pillar of something that, that
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: agrees me, which is corruption. Now, when I say corruption, uh,
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: let me, let me backtrack a little bit. My father
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: recently died this, this, uh, last father's day, not this one,
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: but the one before. And, um, I had the privilege
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: of knowing he was sick. And so we took a
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: road trip down to Miami about a month and a
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: half before he died. And he never told me he
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: was sick. But I knew something wasn't right. I knew
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: my father for a long time. And something wasn't right.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: He started losing weight. And I could see he wasn't
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: eating as much. And there were telltale signs. And he
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: didn't want to tell me. And I asked my father
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: almost flippantly. I said, Dad, I think we were probably
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: somewhere by St. Louis. And I said, Dad, what is
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: the greatest threat to humanity? to humans? What is a
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: greater threat? Now, I say flippantly because I'm thinking, you know, terrorism, right?
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: This and that. My father thought for a second. He
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: looks at me and says, son, it's corruption. I said,
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: what do you mean corruption? Like, like, like financial corruption?
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: Governmental corruption? He says, no. Corruption at its heart is
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: when you are willing to bypass your own moral code,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: your own ethics for something else. And whether it's, it's
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: Financial corruption, religious corruption, governmental corruption, or even moral corruption.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: When you start to compromise on your own values, it's
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: a very quick downward spiral to utter chaos. And he
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: know that firsthand because my father was in the Bay
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: of Pigs invasion. He was a political prisoner of Castro.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: He actually fought with Castro against Batista. And then when
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: Castro went communist, my father joined the folks here and
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: the friendly folks at the CIA and was part of
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: the invasion of the Bay of Pigs. He spent two
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: years in Castro's prisons being tortured. So when he came
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: to this country, this country offered us opportunities that no
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: other country could or would. And the reason why Cuba
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: failed was because of corruption. And he said, look, corruption
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: will be the end of all. And it's a very
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: quick downward spiral with democracy that if democracy becomes corrupt,
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: you now have tyranny, right? And so every time someone
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: in the government is willing to compromise a little bit
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: on the value of what it means to serve the
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: American people and they forget that, they become corrupt. And
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: that actually erodes the very essence of what democracy is
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: and what this country is about. And that is why
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: it is so important that the individuals in our government
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: that don't want to have this conversation and don't want
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: to talk to Congress and are making the unilateral decision
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: on your behalf and the American taxpayer and my behalf
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: is That's wrong. They don't have the right to do that.
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: There is a process of rules and laws we have
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: in this country that we've all agreed to are going
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: to abide by, and that includes them. And they don't
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: have the right to bypass that. Even if they think
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: they're doing it for the right reason, I disagree with that.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: I think this democracy only works because we all agree
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: it works, right? And the moment you begin to compromise
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: on that, all of democracy is at risk. And I
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: mean that sincerely. It's not a a slow downward spiral,
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: it's quick and you can hit rock bottom very, very quickly.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: And the only reason why this government works is because
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: we all have faith and a commitment to what we
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: consider are the American values and serving the American people and,
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: you know, for the people, by the people. So I
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: think it's very dangerous when elements in the government, and
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want to villainize the whole government because the
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: government's full of great people. They do great things. They
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: keep us safe. So I'm talking about the minority few.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: some of these people who have actually gone after me
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: and will probably continue to come after me to try
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: to discredit me and everything else, despite the volumes of
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: documentation that I have in my possession and others, um,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: because they don't want to have the conversation and they, they,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: they are happy with the status quo. And to me,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: that is a greater threat than any UAP could ever
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 1: have on humanity. It's, it's the greatest threat is how
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: we perceive ourselves and what we are willing to do
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: to keep this a secret in violation of the commitment and, and,
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: and what we have done to, we've sworn in some cases,
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: to uphold the values of this country. And I think
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: that's a concern for me. And that's why I don't
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: want certain elements having this conversation of what this means,
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: you know, the bigger macro level conversation, because I don't
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: think they're qualified. I'm not qualified. I know that. I'm
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: damn sure they're not qualified either. So this is why
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: I think this type of national level conversation is so important.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's not up to me.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: People say, Lou, what do you think? You know what?
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: Tell what I think. It doesn't matter what I think.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: What matters is what you think. Here's the information. Here's
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: the data. You figure it out. Don't ask me what
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: this means because I'm not entitled to that. I didn't
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: earn that privilege. And I would definitely never take it
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: away because that is sacred. That's you. That's up to
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: you to decide for yourself. And this is part of
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: my frustration with this overall conversation because there are elements
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: that don't want you to have this conversation.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: Well said, Lou. Thank you very much, man. Thanks for
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: being here. I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed our conversation. Joe,
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: this has been fantastic and truly, truly an honor and privilege.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: You have one hell of a responsibility. You are, you are, look,
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: I got to tell you, I don't ever get nervous
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: doing an interview. You were the first one and probably
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: the only one I will ever have been nervous coming
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: in just simply because not because of me, because of you,
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: the responsibilities you have on your shoulders to have a communicate,
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: you reach a global audience. People are listening to this
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: conversation right now. And by the way, they're part of
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: this conversation very much so, right? That is an enormous responsibility.
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: You have a voice in some cases that exceeds presidents.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: The technology you now have available to your fingertips and
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: this wonderful staff you have, you are influencing the world.
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: And I can't imagine that type of responsibility. I mean,
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: there are world leaders that don't have the voice you have.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: And so for me, it is a profound, profound honor
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: and privilege to be with you here today and your, your,
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: your wonderful audience. Um, you know, if I never see
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: you again, I wish you the best of luck. You are,
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: you're doing America a great service. Be honest, be candid,
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: speak your mind. That's all I can say as a
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: little chicken here in, in, in, uh, in the United States. Um, you, you,
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: You've got big shoulders, man. You've got a big weight
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: and a lot of responsibility on your back. And I
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: mean this. You're freaking me out, man. I'm telling you.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: But thank you very much. Thanks again. I really appreciate
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: everything you've said. And I appreciate everything you said about
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: disclosure and how important it is.
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Joe, it's been my honor and privilege, sincerely.
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: My honor, too. Thank you very much. Yes, sir. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.