Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / You've Got Mail (1998) - Nora Ephron | Houselights #133

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You've Got Mail (1998) - Nora Ephron | Houselights #133 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Party. Welcome back to Houselights, our director discussion show
0:24
here on the nerd Party Network. We've been going through a romantic comedy spell
0:29
with the Ephron Hallway. This week we're rounding out that trio we started with
0:34
with Harry met Sally and Sleepless in Seattle with the nineteen eight hit You've Got
0:39
Mail, or What Happens When a well Time Warner makes a movie starring America
0:44
online Email, marketed by Time Magazine and produced by Warner Brothers. I'm Darren
0:51
Moser and I'm joined again by my friends, the small Etcy bookstore owner Tristan
0:56
Riddell and the big box book magnet John on Mill. That's m I L's
1:03
gentlemen, connect your modems and prepare to get online. With the most nineties
1:08
of nineties movies of You've Gotten Mail. That could have been one of the
1:12
meanest things you've ever said to me, What if you were an Etsy bookstore
1:18
owners? I was trying to think of something modern that was kind of an
1:22
equivalent. I'm the well. We were joking my wife and I when we
1:30
watched this that this is happening now. Is all the big bookstores are going
1:33
out of business for Amazon. It's the cycle is complete. I still don't
1:38
know how Barnes and Nobles held on at all. They're finally folding, and
1:42
it's oh they've been They've been folding for years around us. No, but
1:46
number one comes around, I'm just like, oh my god, Yes,
1:49
a book, a physical book, I can go. But they've been folding
1:52
so much more slowly than Borders did. Borders Orders gone, Oh yeah,
1:56
Borders took a gun to the head. They were just like, I don't
1:59
want to live any more. Yeah, Borders threw themselves into traffic. I
2:02
went through Borders that was closing and having their like purge sale, and I
2:07
picked up a like nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety seven copy pre special edition
2:13
copy of Star Wars with the tape on the bottom, had not been opened,
2:17
like a trilogy pack, and I was like, this is going on
2:20
the shelf because I don't know how long this has been sitting around. But
2:23
yes, well, this movie is reuniting Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan again back
2:31
from Sleepless in Seattle. A few years later, they're a little bit older.
2:37
The Internet is a thing now apparently, and my goodness, this is
2:42
such a nineties movie, but in a good way, Like it really just
2:46
feels like, yeah, this is what the end of the millennium was like
2:52
for a lot of us. And they opened you can't get oh man,
2:58
you know much more now. Yeah, from about nineteen ninety six or seven
3:00
to two thousand, you had to have one of those Cranberry songs in there,
3:06
because that meant that you got it, like you knew you were weird.
3:08
That guitar, that echoe guitar start up. You're like, yeah,
3:12
yeah, yeah, I'm weird. Hip, I'm dealing with normal person.
3:15
Yeah, you're you're, you're, you're, you're, You're in society,
3:19
you know what's going on. There's a spring in my step despite the sadness
3:22
in my heart. I know I gotta keep moving. And it's like that's
3:24
when I put the Cranberries on, you know that sort of thing. Well,
3:28
and first we have the you know, I guess somebody watched Star Trek
3:31
two and really like CG cityscapes or something as we slowly, you know,
3:38
fly around. I mean, granted, in nineteen ninety eight, this is
3:42
great stuff, but I could pull up something one hundred times better on my
3:45
phone and Google maps right now. But no. But but that was actually
3:49
my thought looking at it was how quaint it is to go back because the
3:52
final shot where it goes real, I think to myself, this is pretty
3:55
much what it looks like now. I would love to see them like progress
4:00
it further, like you know, but I like that, Like I really
4:03
liked it. I love the shot where it like loads the island and it's
4:08
like loading the textures and chunks and you're like, oh, I remember that.
4:12
And I love the final shot where you have like this really rudimentary jogger
4:15
going through and they're like, why is there a jogger there? Oh,
4:17
he'll be back, he'll be back, and then you see the real jo.
4:23
I loved it. I thought it was great. Oh no, I'm
4:26
not saying I don't love it. I'm just saying it is definitely cutting edge
4:30
at the time. Well, and what I love most about it is the
4:35
angsty rant at the beginning from Greg Knear where he's oh, see the end
4:42
of Western civilization. And I love sitting there because there's actually, you know,
4:46
you work with people and you're friends with people and everything where we're it's
4:51
such every five to ten years the new technologies. Like right now it's chat
4:56
chypts, the end of Western civilization gonna die and it's like we've been down
5:00
this road before, guys, can we just calm down? There was okay,
5:03
so not a lot of people watch this movie and that's okay, um,
5:05
but it's uh. It was a Seth McFarland directed picture. Oh I
5:09
thought you were talking about You've got mail for a second, like Tristed.
5:12
It made two hundred and fifty million dollars. Okay, wait, wait,
5:15
I get what you're saying. I should give you a picture. And it's
5:18
called A Million Ways to Die in the West and there you know, it
5:21
takes place in Western days and you see Seth McFarlane and Giovanni Ribisi and like
5:29
they're walking down the road and there's kids with a hoop and a stick and
5:32
they're hitting the hoop and the stick and they're just having a gay old time
5:35
and they're both talking to each other and there's like you know what, you
5:40
know, this this is crazy kids nowadays, Like they're just they they're relying
5:44
too much on technology to have fun and like, talk to me in ten
5:46
years when they have like you know, like a shrunken pleasure center in their
5:49
brain from you know, like too much you know, like a not sensitivity,
5:54
but like too much exposure. Stimulation, stimulation. That's what I was
5:58
looking for, too much stimulation. And it just it's it's so funny because
6:01
there was even a line and a Madman where they said, like I'm sure
6:04
there were some people in the Bible who said who just stopped what they were
6:08
doing and said kids these days, yes, every yes. And the fascinating
6:15
thing to me is remembering very clearly the Y two K freak out. So
6:19
nineteen ninety eight were just we're just cresting the hill. The press is just
6:25
about to decide to make us worried about something else. That's that's a non
6:29
issue. So I still have a VHS copy of taped off of television called
6:34
Y two K, the movie where everything goes wrong and like nuclear power plants
6:40
go off and planes fall out. Now I will say, yes, uh,
6:46
the the concern was warranted and it the problem was solved, which is
6:53
why things didn't go bad. It's not a well, things didn't go bad,
6:57
so there was no cause to be like, no, there was cause.
7:00
No, I'm glad, I'm glad that you mentioned that because Okay,
7:01
I actually know people who have who worked on it, and they're like,
7:04
no, the reason why the world didn't explode is because I put an eighty
7:08
hour word. Yeah, yes, that's true. But the hysteria around it
7:14
was framed as if that work wasn't going to get done, as opposed to
7:19
saying, don't worry, some people who have to put some long hours get
7:21
some overtime and they're gonna get its news. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
7:27
I mean just the fact that picture this one scenario of Okay, imagine Kaiser
7:32
all of a sudden doesn't know the age of their members for childhood immunizations and
7:40
every child misses their immunizations for like two months. You know, bad that
7:46
would be like, and how that would cascade throughout time. Anyway, this
7:51
is not the White UK podcast. That's a different, different movie. That's
7:56
the thing that's I think that's a credit to this, to this film is
8:00
that it's not because it's trying to be nineties. It's not like nineties.
8:03
It just was. It just was. That's yes, exactly. It's not
8:07
nineties in a in a weird, gawky kind of way. It was just
8:11
very much of its time, different than like clueless, Like clueless is that
8:18
era too, but it's kind of more like doubling down. Like I don't
8:24
feel like people dress up as clueless if they're going to a nineties party.
8:30
People don't dress up as you've got mail to a nineties party. This is
8:33
what it looked like. Well, I mean, clueless is made purpose like
8:39
it was very self aware. Yeah, that's time. It was that it
8:41
was it was saying we are always this is this is the time. We're
8:46
going to turn it up to eleven. We're going to a snapshot of this
8:50
moment in whereas this is this is just this is this one goes up to
8:52
eleven. Thing, right, But what I found extremely interesting about this is
9:00
what it what it? The whole premise of it is something that I witnessed
9:05
happen with a lot of people at the time and even afterward, because when
9:09
social media became a big thing around the micenes of people starting to connect with
9:15
people outside that they haven't met yet through this ambiquitous internet. I'll put it.
9:20
I'll put it this way, the emotional infidelities of online life. I
9:24
all man clockett. Okay, we're at nine minutes and John starts talking about
9:28
emotional infidelity. Okay, now that you know I was going to get bit
9:35
too. I'm saying that that I remember this type of stuff happening like where
9:41
where people and I think there is a moment where, um, she's talking
9:46
to Yeah, she's talking to one of her employees, and the employee asks
9:52
have you had cybersex yet? And she's like, then it's not cheating.
9:56
But I'm sitting there, I'm like, but you know, like there there's
10:00
there, there's this this wavering emotionally with her relationship that's already happening here judging
10:05
her. But I'm saying, like, I saw this happen with a lot
10:09
of people, and it's a really tricky space for the movie to be in
10:13
sort of thing. So yeah, there was. It's been a while since
10:16
i'd watched this movie. I mean i'd seen it most likely just one of
10:22
those movies you see when you're a film student. Like it's not a bad
10:24
movie. I'm not even seen in theaters. It's just you know, it's
10:28
got mail. But but on this rewatch, I was really struck by And
10:35
I'm I'm curious of your both opinions. Did Joe Fox and Kathy Kelly need
10:41
to be in relationships currently at the beginning of this movie, because let's just
10:48
mean, the first half of this movie is a hot mess. I mean,
10:50
we're gonna get to the Fox family tree in a moment um, dear
10:56
lord. But honestly, once it kind of shifts into the second half,
11:01
once we have the Joe discovers that who she actually is and things like that,
11:07
it's kind of like a whole different movie. And I almost feel like,
11:13
yeah, you could say that the first half is we're seeing what they're
11:16
like in these bad relationships or whatever. But John, do you feel like
11:20
they needed that in this story or they could have just been two single people
11:24
with this connection uh? Through email? Did we need them to be in
11:31
the Terrible? I mean, it's not as bad as uh, what was
11:35
it, Wilford? What's his name? Um? Future President of the United
11:39
States? From Sleepless? Uh? What do you go by? Sorry?
11:48
Sorry, it's not as bad as Walter, but like these like the people
11:50
they're in relationship with are terrible people, like on purpose? Uh I take
11:58
I take I take offense to that about Walter. I'm a staunch defender of
12:03
Walter. Moving on, No, well, we know, I mean we
12:05
talked last about how he was purposely bad. They well, they they amp
12:11
they amped up his his flaw, like, let's put Walter to the side
12:16
here, because I know it's a very touchy start. I caught a lot
12:20
of heat from from at least one of our dear listeners who really took issue
12:26
with my issues with Walter. So righteous heat. But we're moving on,
12:31
moving on to the gem that is Frank and who is the Parker posey?
12:37
So yes, So no, I don't think the movie needs them. I
12:43
don't. I think that the way they resolve them is needed simply because of
12:52
their existence in the script. So I think it resolves them cleanly enough,
12:56
which I was at the beginning. I was like, oh boy, how
12:58
are we going to res this one? And it winds up resolving them cleanly
13:01
enough, And I think that it plays into one of the larger story points,
13:09
which is both um, you know both uh Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan
13:16
are being more honest with that screen and I think where they are with right
13:22
actual partners. Yeah, yeah, you could have said, well they're they're
13:26
just you know, that's the whole That was the whole appeal of this and
13:31
it's the whole appeal of of you know, the relationships that strike up on
13:33
social media as you don't have the real world baggage with somebody, right,
13:37
there's no can't I'm just sharing about my day. They can't leave the toilet
13:43
seat up, they can't forget to do the dishes, they can't fart too
13:46
loudly in public. Like, there's none of those things that go along with
13:48
a string of letters on the screen, And you can sort of mold things
13:54
and be more open if you choose to. Uh No, I think that
14:01
I think that this is one of those ones where I sort of split the
14:05
difference and cop out a little bit to say I don't think they're needed.
14:09
I think this film could have existed perfectly fine without them. But it resolves
14:16
their stories cleanly and detriment not as much, not perfectly, but cleanly enough
14:22
that Parker Posey exists so that Meg Ryan can have a positive future presented to
14:28
her at the end, and Greg Keneer's character serves the purpose of sparking the
14:35
conflict between the two characters and amping that up to eleven so that it's not
14:39
just this abstract you're a big business, you're a small business. We must
14:43
be enemies. It's they take it to the mattresses and then makes it much
14:46
worse and once he comes into it, you know. I think that's the
14:50
thing though. I think, like what you just said is a good enough
14:54
reason to have them in the picture. Now, they could have been friend
14:58
I think great Kneer could have been a friend, you know in that realm
15:01
too, like her guy friend that she shares about a relationship yeah yeah,
15:05
or like the guy that she knows the papers, like she goes specifically to
15:09
him saying like, hey, I want you to write about this, Like
15:11
that could have taken place. I think. I think between the two of
15:16
them, Parker Posey totally could have I think Tom Hanks didn't need to be
15:18
in a relationship. But I really like the relationship between Greg Kneer and and
15:24
Meg Ryan because of his you know, he has a voice, he has
15:30
a perspective, and I really love their yeah yeah, yeah very much an
15:35
ego. And I really like their breakup scene because it's so civil. Yes,
15:39
it's fantasy, it's movies in the making, but it's I really like
15:43
that breakup. They both realize they're not in love with each other, yes,
15:46
and there's no bickering, there's no arguing. It's kind of it's kind
15:50
of what I like one of the you know, speaking of Walter, It's
15:52
kind of why I like the ending of the Walter and Meg Ryan relationship in
15:56
Sleeps Within Seattle's because Walter kind of, you know, sacks up and realizes
16:02
that he doesn't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with him,
16:07
and Greg Kneer understands like, well, I don't really love you either,
16:11
and you know you don't love me, so let's just shake hands and
16:15
and part ways. And I just really really like that. Yeah, something
16:18
I want to hit on though, just because we keep doing this where we
16:22
say Greg Kner, Parker, Posey, Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan. Do
16:29
you think that there are any performances here that step through and you forget that
16:33
you're watching somebody playing a part? No rom com John Yeah, this is
16:38
a nineties rom comput Johnny Depp or Gary Old. But no, I think
16:45
you're right, though I don't feel like, like, granted, you know,
16:51
Joe Fox is different than um, you know, Sleepless in Seattle.
16:57
Like he's a bit more the you know, of an asshole and a jerk,
17:00
and you know, he's but yeah, no, I I think in
17:07
this stage, like calling him Tom Hanks or calling him Joe Fox is interchangeable
17:11
at this point, it doesn't. It's not like, well then, let
17:15
then let me ask this question as a follow up. Do you think this
17:18
movie winds up being successful? You know, say they trade talent for talent,
17:23
that it's equal levels of talent. Do you think this movie winds up
17:26
being more successful and endearing if Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan aren't in those roles?
17:30
Or do you think that it cheats its way into your heart by using
17:33
those two actors, knowing that you're you're going to go into the theater saying
17:37
oh Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan, Yeah, and you're more receptive to this
17:41
whole thing. I want Tristan answer first, because I'm going to take it
17:44
in a different direction. So I yeah, I love that question. I
17:48
think that's a great question because one of the first things I thought of or
17:52
remembered, I should say when I when I did this rewatch was I remember
17:57
having so much many people ask the question, wait, so are they the
18:02
same people? Are they the same characters? And I remember valid questions.
18:07
It's a valid question. I remember news story saying no, they're not the
18:11
same people. You know they're there. It's just Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan
18:15
being romantic leads in a movie again, because everybody forgets Joe and the Volcano.
18:21
That's right. But I I this movie is not as successful. It's
18:29
I mean, nineties rom coms were re great. I missed them. I
18:33
cherish them. But there's a reason why we had movie stars for so long
18:40
as we did. Like I know, the conversation very much as of right
18:42
now is like, you know, who are the remaining movie stars? You
18:47
know, is the Rock still a remaining movie star? Definitely, Tom Cruise,
18:51
you know, like every everything like that, Like those those the conversations
18:53
that are happening right now, Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, Boom. They
18:57
put butts in seats. If this was just some if they put no names
19:02
in there, you'd have no story for the media, I should say,
19:06
you'd have no you have no angle in promotion. And so I say,
19:10
even though this is a good say that they gave identical performances, but it's
19:14
a different phase, different voice, whatever, identical performance the same kind of
19:18
charm. This would still be a good movie, but it would not make
19:19
two hundred and fifty million dollars in nineteen ninety eight money. No, I
19:25
agree, and that's the direction I wanted to take it because I feel just
19:27
like you said, Tristan, Yeah, this is a vehicle to put Big
19:32
Ryan and Tom Hanks together. But the story on its own is a great
19:37
story. But so I think the story could carry itself with other actors.
19:42
But I don't think butts would get in the seats because they don't know who
19:45
they are. Oh yeah, but but that is that is the core of
19:48
my question. Do you think I'm not talking about box office? I'm talking
19:52
about would it be as warmly received by audio offices? All that matters?
19:56
John? You know what I forgot that you're absolutely cur Michael Bay is the
20:00
greatest director of all time and one all those Oscars, and obviously the Fast
20:04
Franchise is the greatest film series at the night. But let's not get carried
20:10
away. Obviously we care a little bit more about the art. But no.
20:15
So this is based off of a movie, which was a play and
20:19
a story called The Shop around the Corner, which is one of the main
20:22
reasons that Meg Ryan, Kathain Kelly's bookstore is called The Shop around the corner
20:29
and she doesn't have the trademark on it, even though you know she's literally
20:33
just around the corner. But this movie is a nineteen forty nine Jimmy Stewart
20:38
classic, and I was able to rewatch it before doing Givebout Mail because I
20:45
wanted to do that. Comparison is very much the same story. I mean,
20:48
obviously a little bit of a difference where they are not in previous relationships
20:52
before, but pretty much the seeing her at the restaurant and him seeing her
21:00
first and making the decision to take it in that direction is is beat for
21:06
beat out of that movie. Is He's Got He has his friend in this
21:10
movie, played by Joe Dave Chappelle, But you know seeing you know,
21:14
oh is she there? She beautiful and he's like, oh, well,
21:15
she kind of looks like so and so, and it's like, oh,
21:18
well who cares about so? So? Well, if you don't like so
21:19
and so, you're not gonna like her because it is so and so Like
21:22
that is straight out of that movie. So, oh my gosh, it
21:26
is such a fun so for talk about shop around the corner for a second.
21:32
I mean it's black and white. It's again just this little shop and
21:38
the people that work there, and again very same beats of they're kind of
21:44
mean and nasty to each other. They in this in the movie, they're
21:48
just they're two employees. You know, one's a little higher seniority, one's
21:52
not. But it's just it's just such a good movie. It's such your
21:59
heart feels warm by it. People are just decent to each other the entire
22:03
time. Everyone's mister this and misses this, and the playing on the name.
22:07
But the actor who plays the wizard of the Wizard of Oz is the
22:11
main owner of the store. So highly highly recommended. If you can find
22:15
a copy, give it a watch, and you will definitely see the parallels
22:18
in You've Got Mail, Not that it's a copy, but just you could
22:22
tell this is the story. And this story has been done many times.
22:26
It's been There was a Julie Garland movie that was also kind of based off
22:29
of So this boy meets girl and hate each other, and then boy discover
22:34
like with the pen pal, that that's an important aspect of it. And
22:38
then the boy finds out, oh, I know who you actually are,
22:41
and then kind of weaves this new direction while stringer along obviously email is the
22:49
new venue for this story. So I could totally see the pitch meeting of
22:52
like, oh, let's take this movie where it was pen Pals and let's
22:56
we own AOL. So let's let's make it. It makes sense, but
23:02
it works. One of the really stories. Yeah, yeah, this is
23:04
one of those stories that really lends itself to an update where you're not forcing
23:10
it. It's a natural evolution and as a bit of a jump. That's
23:15
I think it's it's time. Well, I think that um one of the
23:21
things that makes this work. And I don't I have not seen the shop
23:23
around the corner. I plan to, I want to, didn't have the
23:26
chance this time. Failed on your homework. It's okay, John, Yeah,
23:30
you know that's not the first time somebody said that. And I just
23:33
want to go ahead and say that what makes this more successful structure wise than
23:40
Sleepless in Seattle is Darren Earlier, you mentioned how it sort of gear shifts
23:45
and becomes a little bit of a different movie later on, and you're absolutely
23:48
right, it does, and it pivots, and I think very much the
23:53
movie's credit it has the Tom Hanks character do the work to establish a relationship
24:03
with Meg Ryan to make sure that there's actually a connection there, that there
24:07
is a human connection there that is forming. And I think it's also this
24:14
would be something where I would give tribute to Hanks where he does an excellent
24:18
job of being sly without being smarmy about planting the clues. He keeps giving
24:25
her clues as to who he really is, and she just doesn't see past
24:30
it, and he never holds it against her. He just keeps throwing those
24:33
little breadcrumbs there in their scenes and she just isn't picking up on it.
24:38
But then it makes the way it resolves itself because spoilers, it's a romantic
24:42
comedy. They get together in the end. But that's why that's a tight
24:48
rope. That is an absolute tight rope that Tom Hanks walks at the end
24:52
is because this could have been in a this could have been very very creepy
24:57
at the end where like he knows you know, like in power, the
25:02
power, dynamic power, Yeah, exactly, like he could manipulate her in
25:08
order to get information, or you could manipulate her in order to woo her
25:15
in a way to lead lead her away from himself, you know, his
25:19
online self. You know, like it could have been played in a very
25:22
creepy, not so nice way where you're just kind of like, I don't
25:27
know how I feel about that. But he pulls it off with being jokey
25:33
about it, where like with the whole like oh, mister New York who
25:38
had one hundred and fifty two face, you know, like that kind of
25:42
thing, where like he's when he's making a joke about him, he's making
25:47
a joke about himself, but he's not doing it where where it gives him
25:52
an edge or an advantage or puts her in a spot where she is devoid
25:56
of agency. Yeah, and he also does cut it off from the other
26:00
end, where as the online performance, he doesn't say he doesn't start acting
26:04
like a jerk to get her too, because eventually if they get together,
26:10
like she's gonna know it's him, so he can't like push him onto himself.
26:15
But no, they Yeah, like you said, Trisan, it's a
26:18
tight rope, but it and I think vastly better than Sleepless in Seattle,
26:23
where you buy it Like by the time like he is landing this plane,
26:29
he's building the plane and landing it at the same time, so when it
26:30
touches down at the very end, and you have the meat cute and he's
26:36
putting it on the line and her like I was hoping it was you like,
26:38
you believe it. You believe that she because that is the plane you
26:44
have to land because if you don't make that convincing, that's just what she
26:48
can say. Whatever, that's how the script goes. But if we haven't
26:52
been taken there through the second half of this movie to buy like, why
26:56
on earth would she love this guy who did run her out of business?
27:02
And you know, but we saw him change and so yeah, it's a
27:06
so the second half and again I'm not bashing on the first half the Fox
27:11
family tree again just is it got troubles and it weirds me out. But
27:18
I'm glad you mentioned that. I think that, Um, that's the one
27:22
part that remains clunky to me, you know, as I revisit it mentally,
27:26
and everything is is I love Dadney Coleman. He's one of those those
27:32
supporting players that I always love seeing show up. She obviously couldn't get Rob
27:37
Ryner, so she got Carl Reiner. Okay Ryner for Reiner shore Shore.
27:41
But that is the part that seems a little too messy to me, is
27:47
to simply it. Basically, it could have been a lot more streamlined and
27:53
simply have it be just Dabney Coleman and he's retiring and Tom Hanks is taking
28:00
over the company, and you have a couple of conversations where he talks about,
28:03
you know, Dad, you weren't exactly the best model for a relationship.
28:07
That's why I haven't gotten married to anybody, is because I look at
28:08
the what you did, but instead you can't even have the three generations,
28:12
which I liked. I liked out they're all on their boats at the end,
28:15
and I'll like there was a lot of great material, but the way
28:18
they went about it like it was odd. It just it just seemed a
28:23
little clunky to me. Although the existence of the kids gives a reason for
28:29
him to meet her, but that still could have been cleaner and just said,
28:33
oh, these are mine. Could also have a sister and they could
28:34
be his niece and nephew. It doesn't have to be aunt, but he
28:38
could just say this is my sister and brother. It's like your sister and
28:41
brother. It's like, yeah, my dad got married a couple of times,
28:45
and she's she's a number three's daughter and he's number four's son. I
28:51
as someone who comes from a weird like situation or I should say uncommon,
28:59
I really appreciated that. Like I liked seeing that because I have you know,
29:04
like I'm thirty six and I have assist a half sibling who's fifty six,
29:10
and I, um, my dad is the oldest and his his uh,
29:18
his brother is forty years younger than him. And like my grandmother and
29:22
my dad's first wife were pregnant at the same time, and like like my
29:29
my great uncle was once engaged to my grandmother, you know, like it
29:33
was it was. I have tons of different I have tons of interaction between
29:37
both sides of my mom's of my mom's side of my dad's side, and
29:42
like tons of age differences, and so like somebody's second cousin is also their
29:47
uncle, you know, like no no incesty stuff going on, but a
29:49
lot of complicated, um you know, branches sideways instead of always up and
29:56
down. And so I actually really really liked that because I was an uncle
30:00
when I was six years old, you know, and just I just really
30:06
like that kind of stuff. I'm not knocking it because it's for any other
30:11
reason than this is a movie. And so I want to see things streamlined
30:15
that you get what I'm saying, Like, I think life is complex,
30:18
John, it's it's but my movies don't mut but their last name is not
30:23
Fox, the simplest of last names. I like if I see an opportunity
30:29
where a movie or a script or something could run at an hour and forty
30:33
five instead of two hours, because you have to build in all of this
30:37
extra explanation and interplay, because you've decided to lean into that complexity. I
30:41
might look at it and say, oh, he could tighten that up.
30:45
That's a twenty second scene. It was a twenty second scene. Okay,
30:49
give me a break. But but like you said, John, it was
30:52
a vehicle to get him in the store. And now he's seeing her,
30:57
and he's seeing like, yeah, and the before, which I'm saying,
31:02
the before he finds out who she really is. He's even also kind of
31:06
holding the power at that moment because he knows he's Joe Fox of this giant
31:10
store that's coming around the corner patent pending cut around the corner, and she
31:15
doesn't. And so of course she's treating him nicely because she's a nice person.
31:18
And I love the subtle like he does, you know, he takes
31:22
the idea of the printed bags and puts that in a story like he's all
31:26
like when he's playing hardball at the beginning, he is is manipulating and using
31:32
her, not to a huge degree, but he is definitely But what do
31:37
you guys think about when it goes to the mattresses? Because I guess we
31:40
got all quote the Godfather now that I've seen it, but that turn in
31:45
the story where she's now because this was very interesting to watch because it was
31:52
very much the uh, you know, oh big business coming in, oh
31:56
treading on the little guy or like oh like all your mom and pops and
32:00
it's interesting now again removed seeing the big businesses fall because of the Internet,
32:06
Like it's like the next domino has fallen. But and that's really only because
32:10
now it's twenty twenty three and this was nineteen ninety eight. But what do
32:14
you guys feel like that take on that David Goliath? Oh if we and
32:21
I like kind of how they portrayed it of like, oh, we we
32:22
rallied and we petitioned and we did all this and it made no difference to
32:25
our bottled mind because at the end of the day, it's a business and
32:30
they're cheaper. Yeah, I mean that pretty much summed it up right there.
32:35
Yeah, I think I think it's a David and Goliath story that will
32:39
never get old. I mean, it's it's it's timeless. It's I mean,
32:44
we're talking about a biblical story that has been retold thousands, if not
32:49
millions of times in different ways, and this is this is one of those
32:54
times where now granted we're talking about David and Goliath, and David defeated Goliath,
33:00
but this one, that's not what happened. That's true. It's at
33:05
the struggle is what they're talking about. But they didn't. It didn't play
33:07
out quite like the biblical tale. That's a good point. Well, yeah,
33:10
I mean David also didn't have to deal with the zoning committees and city
33:15
councils and stuff like that to put his building in place, and you know,
33:19
grease the levers of power with you know, promises of different sorts of
33:23
things that you know, the businesses due. But like I mean, yeah,
33:28
that's slinging a loot, that's all they needed. Yeah. But but
33:30
but that is very apt because in a sense, it doesn't ever call the
33:36
audience out on it. But this this isn't the movie to do that sort
33:38
of thing. But there is that sort of undercurrent of it made no difference,
33:43
And it's that realization of people can get all worked up that they want
33:46
to about a situation like this, but you walk into somebody and you say,
33:52
hey, here's the same product, and you can go here and get
33:58
it for fifteen he sent less, or you can more select her more and
34:02
yeah, or you can pay more and uh, you know, help out
34:07
your neighbor. One hundred percent of the time, if it's a blind situation,
34:10
people will say, oh, I'm gonna pay fifteen percent less, but
34:14
I signed a change dot org petition John, Yeah, well yeah, that's
34:20
yeah, Okay. You know, besides the fact of how it plays out,
34:24
there's also there's two things I really like about and because again they didn't
34:29
have to be part of the story, but I like how they're they're so
34:31
realistic. How she had her friend who was a publisher who was like at
34:36
the beginning, like, oh, I really want you know, to support
34:37
you, and then eventually started her book deal, which again it's her business
34:43
too. She has to promote her book and where is she going to get
34:46
more business like and and I love how Kathin Kelly wasn't upset, didn't call
34:52
her up and say how could you do this to me? Like she gets
34:54
it. She you know, she understands that that her friend had to make
34:58
that choice. But then the later moment when the surget mother old lady I
35:05
began don't remember her name but Jean Stapleton, you know, when she was
35:08
remember Jean Stapleton's name when you're on the podcasts okay, okay, but when
35:15
she's like, you're doing the braver thing because you're choosing to believe in a
35:20
world where you aren't just a bookstore owner, and I'm like, yeah,
35:25
she was trying to like pump her up, but it's also kind of true,
35:30
like that is a risk, that is the unknown, that is going
35:34
off and doing something else, and especially something you inherited from your mother,
35:38
Like was this ever the thing that you really wanted to do? And obviously
35:42
she got a lot of joy out of it and was very good at her
35:45
job. But what John, what did you think of that that not twist,
35:50
but just that portrayal of because you know, we all kind of saw
35:55
it coming, like there's no twist at the end where she saves the corner.
36:00
It's it's or even if she saved it, it was going to be
36:02
a short lived victory sort of thing. Um. I mean, you know,
36:07
I mean, honestly, it's that I don't know how well the movie
36:12
really calls it out. That scene is a good call out of it.
36:15
But maybe I would have preferred, I don't know, even more of um,
36:22
even more of a moment to land. But you know, we do
36:25
get her, you know, seeing her mom playing with her as a kid,
36:29
and a vision sort of thing talking to her. But it is that
36:34
sort of um, that realism, that pragmatism about the story where it's like,
36:39
you know, the world's going to change and you're not always gonna like
36:44
how it changes. And yes, it is good that Jeane Stapleton has that
36:46
moment where she says, you're you're choosing to have faith in yourself basically that
36:52
this isn't you know, this business might go away, but that doesn't mean
36:55
that you go away. You just have you just have to find it different
37:00
place for yourself out there, and that I think is you know, that's
37:05
definitely an important lesson for the It's rare in a movie, because usually the
37:09
story is conformed to make them win absolutely. But I mean, but when
37:15
they maybe not this kind of movie, not just win, but also when
37:17
they lose. Typically in a story like this, there's this sort of like
37:22
righteousness that the audience gets to feel, whereas this is a much softer sort
37:27
of you're not going to restart a new bookstore, or you're not gonna work
37:32
for him and then take things over. You're not gonna infiltrate the board or
37:37
anything. You're just going to accept it. There's just nothing you could do
37:39
here. I mean, in a sense, it's it's a lot like Rocky
37:43
where it's like, so long as I go the distance, that's all that
37:45
matters. I gave it my all, right, doesn't matter whether I want
37:50
or not. And if they wanted to stretch this out like Actually, one
37:53
thing that really upon this rewatch that my wife and I notice was just like,
37:59
why would they need that many people working? At that time? I
38:02
did think that too. I was I've gone to a used bookstore when I
38:07
was looking for a book. I didn't realize it was a used bookstore,
38:08
but it was. And there was one man in the front at the counter
38:14
that was it, And I'm like, there's quite a like, man,
38:16
nineties were pumping. You had like now businesses were just given away jobs.
38:21
I want to say that there was near where I went to high school,
38:27
there was a beloved institution of a used bookstore called Barbarian Books and Comics,
38:31
and everybody went there for their comic books. But they had this insane,
38:37
insane used book section that was massively disorganized and nobody could make any sense of
38:45
it and you couldn't find anything. And I still miss it, and I
38:49
had some terrific memories in Barbarian. But to your point, when he got
38:55
an employee, that was like, wow, hey, days are here,
39:00
man, you have somebody working for you, because typically you would just sit
39:05
behind the counter. It was like I'm looking for this and it's like,
39:07
yeah, go over there and find it, you damn self. And then
39:09
like he got somebody, I was like, all right, ray, come
39:13
on up, man. I love that. Yeah. If this movie was
39:15
just a little bit more realistic, like Steve's on would have been fired first,
39:20
Yes, then you know Heather Burns and actually no, probably you know
39:24
no, I think it would have been Jeane Stapleton's the first one she's independently
39:30
wealthy, and she's also carrying the most salary. By that point, I
39:34
think there would have been a moment when Captain Kelly is trying to make the
39:39
decision and Jeane Stapleton bows out because she's like, I don't, yeah,
39:44
his job, keep it, keep your friend a little longer, and then
39:47
it's just the two of them left at the very end. I could see
39:51
that happening. I think I kind of wish that would have happened now that
39:55
I'm saying it out loud, because I feel like it would have kind of
39:59
more realistic because they went from it's going to close to the B story not
40:05
B story, but like, like I said, that second half is like
40:08
is very different, but it was very abrupt too, because like they go
40:13
from like she's she's doing news interviews and she's like she's she's up in front
40:16
of a microphone, and then like it feels like a you know, half
40:21
a heartbeat later you know that she's like, what are you gonna do?
40:24
And she's like, oh, well, we're gonna close. Well, I
40:27
will say one of the things that my wife noticed which I like also about
40:32
this movie is it is it talks about seasons really like it starts in the
40:36
fall, like we're pushing through that leaf branch as we transition inside, and
40:42
then it's Winner or it's it's Halloween. At the beginning, we're carving pumpkins,
40:45
and then we're putting up Christmas lights. So I do agree it does
40:49
feel a bit jarring, but in the grander scheme, the movie is taking
40:52
place over several months and seasons, and it's also reflecting on seasons of your
40:58
life as you're kind of positioning through. But yes, it does. It
41:02
did kind of feel like and we're done with that story. Now we're going
41:06
to focus on he knows and she doesn't, and that's going to be the
41:08
rest of the movie, which I will say, you know, watching this
41:13
and it only gets more and more acute because we are in the you know,
41:15
the age of the algorithm, the false choice, the hallways that they
41:20
shove you down, and everything like that when you're you know, going through
41:22
online and everything. But there is a small pang that I feel seeing you
41:29
know, Kathleen's bookstore and thinking of those used bookstories and thinking of those small
41:36
record shops like Fantasmagoria that that was nearer again shops or anything that's small and
41:42
where specific. But if you wanted to find something unexpected, it was a
41:47
lot easier because you could go in and talk to a person and say,
41:52
you know, I don't know, I'm kind in the mood for something like
41:55
even blocks, just something that you could just know. Block Buster was the
42:00
Fox Books of the world. I remember the old mom and pop, I
42:04
remember the old and stuff like that. You're right, you're yeah, I'm
42:07
talking those those old school you knew the guy that ran the place and or
42:15
went in there often enough that like they knew your parents sort of thing.
42:17
You would walk in you like, you know, hey, mister Friday night,
42:21
I got something you might like here. No, no copies a Batman
42:23
this week. However, over here I've already remembered once a while you get
42:28
a free one where they're just like, you know what, you come in
42:30
here all the time. This one's on the house. You know, like
42:31
that's not gonna have Fox Books now. Yeah, I remember there was one
42:36
time like I like, um, I'm not gonna say what the movie is
42:39
because John wald Head will explode. Um, but like there was a movie
42:44
that I hadn't seen in a series, and that no one had it.
42:49
No one had it in town, like no one was selling it anything like
42:52
that. So and like I so I went to a mom in a pop
42:53
video shop that I that I knew, and I said, I was like,
42:57
how do I get this? So, like, we'll order it for
42:58
you coming next week. You know, like you couldn't do that, like
43:01
this was before you could order stuff, like before you could order you or
43:07
I have to know, I have to know. This is a podcast full
43:10
of honesty, Tristan. I have to know what this is. It was
43:15
the third Highlander film. You know, all of us made that mistake,
43:20
Tristan. All of us made the mistake, to say, you know what,
43:22
they screwed up so bad in the second one. I bet they learned
43:24
their lessons. You went to a video store. I made that mistake in
43:29
a movie theater. It's okay, there's no judgment here, thank you.
43:32
I'd never I'd never seen it before. I'd never seen it before. It's
43:36
not like I've seen it and I loved it so much I needed to own
43:38
it. I had never seen it before. That's a different conversation. I'm
43:40
being very understanding right here. I get it. I get it. It's
43:44
all right. I know there's there's there's a twinge in your heart strings when
43:49
it comes to Highlanders. So I'm sorry you went to No, I'm sorry
43:52
you went to that much trouble for Hilander three. But you know it's more
43:54
of a commiseration sort of thing. He's like, due to ordering, it
43:58
is now fifty fifty five, I have to rent this. You're like,
44:00
wait, wait, wait what no one else is gonna be I'm sorry?
44:02
What all right? Well, as her rounding third, here just a few
44:07
more little points. I love Dave Chappelle's little role. I was forget he's
44:12
in this movie, and then it's like, oh look it's Dave Chappelle's Dave
44:15
Chappelle. And he's so great as like the friend, and and I love
44:20
the story behind his casting. I don't know the story. What was that?
44:22
Yeah? He so he was offered the role of Bubba in Forrest Gump,
44:28
okay, and he turned it down, saying that this movie is gonna
44:31
this movie is gonna suck. It's gonna fay. Forrest Gump, the you
44:35
know, the winner of like eleven Academy Awards. Yeah, and he like
44:39
after it swept the Oscars and made so much money. He's like son of
44:44
a rich and um, it's like hey Tom, Hey Tom, Hey buddy,
44:47
buddy. Yeah. And that's the thing is that, like he told
44:51
Tom Tom Hanks he said, he's like, He's like, man, He's
44:53
like, I hate that I did that. And so Hanks went to Ephron
44:58
when this movie came about, he went to Fron and said, hey,
45:00
Chappelle would be great for this role. Let's get him. And Chappelle was
45:06
just like, yes, yes, of course, yes, Tom makes movie.
45:08
Yes, I will absolutely, don't have to pay me, I'll just
45:10
show up. But I I can't. I cannot see him as Bubba though.
45:16
I'm so glad that oh yeah no, Michael T. Williamson was the
45:21
perfect casting for absolutely no. Yeah yeah, but he's great with this.
45:24
You know that he's the friend you know, Um, I also love I
45:30
can't just little things like because again, you know, we've talked a ton
45:34
about Nora f Fron, we talked about her work, so maybe not my
45:37
name, but I love that, like the fact that he sees her um
45:44
or what is it the other way around, one of them sees the other
45:47
on like the TV. And that leads to the next moment um oh that's
45:53
what it was. Sorry. So there's the interview that he's watching while he's
45:57
running on the treadmill and she's obviously watching it. Two and so that's when
46:01
we see Joe Fox again, and that's when then the next time they meet.
46:07
So it's just little things like that of like when they know who each
46:08
other's are. It all kind of plays out really well, like it's very
46:12
smartly written. That was a hilarious scene by the way, when he's on
46:15
the treadmill. Like I didn't say it was eloquent. Yeah, like we
46:20
sell cheap books cut and it's like wait, wait, wait, it's like,
46:23
well, like, oh yeah, that's that's what the media will do,
46:27
is they will totally chop up your sound bite to fit whatever they wanted
46:30
to say. Absolutely absolutely, but at the end it didn't matter. And
46:36
one last round around music, So we have George Feton coming back, who
46:42
we've also heard do Groundhog's Day ever After, Memphis Bell to name a few.
46:47
But I think, I mean it really is the pop culture songs in
46:53
this one. Like you know, Tristan was talking about that that opening song
46:59
where you feel like you're either in felicity or you've got mail or so you
47:02
are in the nineties, you are rooted deep there. What do you guys
47:07
think there's overall just the music cues, because there were there were quite a
47:12
few in this one. I love I loved it. I thought it was
47:15
great. I thought this was very Um. I think the only thing that
47:20
really insists insisted upon itself was the was the Cranberry song. But at the
47:25
same time you're like, oh God, it's the cranberries. But then you
47:29
catch yourself just kind of jiggle in your head and you're like, oh,
47:31
I love you cranberries. That can't be bad at you, No, give
47:37
it a try. But I think that, um, yes, but I
47:39
think that the soundtrack is good. But what I think is interesting about it
47:46
is if I compare this too Sleepless in Seattle too, You've Got Mail,
47:51
I would argue that the Tarantino effect has happened between ninety three and ninety eight.
47:57
So there, I think there's a little bit more pressure on soundtracks to
48:00
have a little bit more of that kind of flow and feel that to become
48:06
a be more soundtrack instead of score, well, to be more of a
48:12
you know, like a pop culture. Um, you know, patchwork the
48:17
way that Tarantino approaches it, so you get that that healthy mix of like,
48:22
even no matter how you feel about the movie, this is an incredible
48:24
mixtape. And so you'll buy the soundtrack and you'll you'll love it. And
48:29
if it works with the scenes, then it works really really well with the
48:31
scenes sort of thing. So, uh, you know, I think that's
48:37
um yeah, and so so I think I think it the music works better
48:43
than it did for for Sleepless in Seattle. I want to if you don't
48:49
mind, I want to shift gears just a little bit because I really wanted
48:52
to talk about the cinematography of this of this film, because I feel like
48:55
in makes New York look beautiful. But yes, oh my gosh, yeah
49:00
like it. You know, we've we've seen so many movies that take place
49:05
in New York, and you can really make New York look however you want
49:07
it to, because it's so gigantic and so massive, like you can go
49:13
and find whatever you want because West Side of New York, right, I
49:15
think they state that a couple of times. Yeah. John Lindley is the
49:20
one who photographed this, and this guy owned the nineties and so in eighty
49:28
nine he photographed Field of Dreams, and then in the nineties it did Sleeping
49:31
with the Enemy, Father of the Bride, Sneakers, the good Son,
49:36
I Love Trouble, Michael Pleasantville, then You've Got Mail, and oh also
49:43
Freedom Song, which was a little more color and You've Got Mail than Pleasantville
49:45
but good. But it's just when you think about the photography styles of Father
49:53
of the Bride and Michael and You've Got Mail, You're like, oh,
49:59
of course the same guy clearly photograph these and so I feel like this is
50:04
one of those things where Nora Ephron as a director is there for the story
50:09
and the acting and then let's other people kind of handle the technical side of
50:15
things with editing and cinematography and music. That's just my guess, after you
50:21
know, with Hindsight being twenty twenty and everything like that and going through analysis
50:24
and I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I'm not saying this as
50:28
a good thing. It's just a thing that is. It's kind of like
50:30
we always go back to what does a Nolan film look like? When when
50:34
Wally's gone, we're like, oh, crap, it just looks like a
50:37
Nolan film. I don't think this is that situation. Because Limbley's work is
50:43
very distinctive for what he wants at that time. I mean, like for
50:47
the era of its that it exists in, and lots of like shallow depth
50:53
of field. There's a lot of times and they're on the front and like
50:57
the background is just kind of beautiful. It's well, but it's just very
51:00
shallow and fuzzy and and also very good everywhere. Yeah, really really soft
51:07
glowy lights that Spielberg and Janus stole for the early two thousands. They got
51:14
a lot of inspiration from that. I think there's like when they're one of
51:19
the few times, like when they're starting to grow together and they're on the
51:23
sidewalk and it's a shot reverse shot, and it's again very beautiful because very
51:29
long lens because they're in focus. But then everything behind them in both directions
51:34
are just a blur, but not in a distracting blur, like they feel
51:37
like they're on a bad green screen, but in a you know, I
51:39
know where you are, and I know where the camera is, but it's
51:43
just obviously where I'm supposed to focus on. Even good shots of the computer
51:47
screen, computer screens are tricky to shoot and make look good with the little
51:52
the diaping and the cursors all that. I remember. There was one time
51:55
Fincher actually talked about David Fincher, the director, talked about, oh that
52:00
Furey shoot shooting a computer a computer screen, and he says, he's like,
52:05
oh yeah, like a lot of people thought. I was like when
52:07
I did Dragon Tattoo that I was, um, just kind of copying myself
52:13
from social network. And he's like, you know, and I'm like you
52:16
you try to find inventive ways of to shoot a computer screen, Like there's
52:22
two ways and that's it, and everybody does those two ways. Yeah.
52:24
No, that's although when they finally start to instant message, hearing that chime
52:31
of the message, I was I was taken back to like two thousand and
52:37
two, two thousand and three, when we didn't have smartphones yet. So
52:40
your aim was on your computer in your dorm room and you were away when
52:45
you were in class, and when you weren't, you were there and you
52:46
heard, you heard the chirp kids, you after speakers cranked and you knew
52:51
someone was saying hey, and it was a less connected time. That was.
52:57
That was one thing I really liked about this movie. The straight up
53:01
nostalgia and the romantic wild West of the Internet. Met in a chat and
53:09
talked about things, and yeah name talked and she kept saying She's like,
53:15
oh, I did it as a joke, and you know, and that's
53:16
how we met, you know, Like I was. I went to college
53:20
between two thousand and four and two thousand and eight, and I think around
53:24
two thousand and five, one of my professors said like, oh, yeah,
53:30
I met my husband online. And everybody had a thousand questions. And
53:36
this was in two thousand and five. This is seven years after You've Got
53:42
Mail came out, and people were still like, really, like you're you're
53:45
meeting yours? There was way more stigma. Now, a vast majority of
53:49
people meet their significant others online. Vast majority of people like if I,
53:52
if you, I dare you to find someone who is of average dating age
53:58
who does not have an online day eating profile on their phone? You know
54:01
like that. It's I'm just glad I'm not in the sea anymore. I've
54:05
definitely gosh, I can't imagine. Oh my, I'm so happy I'm married
54:10
and too old. Yes, but it's a completely different conversation. It's something
54:15
that our kids are not gonna have like they're gonna look at You've got mail
54:19
like we look at two thousand and one? Yeah? What or what do
54:24
they say? You know? Sorry when you have to explain it? But
54:30
oh no, I you know, to quote meat wad from Lacteinehager for us,
54:35
I get it. It ain't making me laugh, but I get it.
54:37
Hey, you thought it was funny screw left on the inside. Yes,
54:44
I did, Yes, I did. All right, So John,
54:47
looking back in nineteen ninety eight, Well, I'm sorry I didn't ask was
54:52
this your first time watching You've got none? None of us asked this.
54:55
Yeah, okay, yes earlier. But I mentioned her earlier. Darren,
55:00
I'm glad you listened to me when I talked earlier. That's fine that you
55:04
watched it, like sixty minutes before we record it. You're like one hundred
55:08
and thirty two minutes before we record. As long as it's long earlier than
55:13
the length of the movie, You're all good? Yes, well what so
55:16
yeah, let's start with you with your of all rating, but again your
55:20
overall imry. I have to interrupt because Darren, there was one time,
55:28
like I was texting you and I said, you know, I don't I
55:30
think we might have to move recording tonight because I'm not quite sure if I'm
55:36
gonna make it. Things are popping up here and there. And you said,
55:39
Darren, you said to me, They're like, oh yeah, like
55:42
we have to record in thirty minutes, and I'm still watching it. I
55:44
was like, well, how much do you have left? And You're like
55:45
eighty minutes And I'm like, I don't think you're gonna make it either,
55:49
Darren. Well, i'd seen that movie before and I was just fast forwarding
55:53
certain bines. I'm like, Okay, then that happens, and that happens.
55:57
Look, just because you can see my viewing history doesn't mean get to
56:00
judge me by it anyway. I'm sorry, John, But yes, but
56:06
John, first time viewing and your overall rating on You've got mail, Well,
56:10
we all know how I felt about Sleepless in Seattle and all of the
56:14
problems I had, And I think you can tell from this conversation you gave
56:17
it a two. So yes, I did, Yes, I did deservedly
56:21
so, And I think that this is this is one of those things where
56:24
I went in not with a chip on my shoulder, but I went in
56:29
saying nowhere to go but up, nowhere to go but up? Like that,
56:32
I felt that Sleepless in Seattle had given me my basement, and I
56:37
like, at the worst I was going to be standing in there unless something
56:40
absolutely catastrophic happened, like for me to go down to one star level,
56:45
this would have had to have been like and Tom Hanks was, you know,
56:50
he had two different marriages happening at the same time Philadelphia, and he's
56:53
actually have aid, right, he kills me Ryan and it's like, right,
56:57
wait what by driving the car off the bridge and all of that sort
57:00
of thing. I've found this to address a lot of the problems that I
57:07
had with Sleepless in Seattle. My general impression of it, honestly is somebody
57:12
who even though I know Sleepless in Seattle was massively successful, the sense I
57:20
have is somebody who learned what to refine between films so that they said,
57:28
okay, I'm getting another pass, what could work even better? Even if
57:31
they felt it worked fine last time? How could they do it better this
57:36
time. I think a lot of the relationship stuff is addressed. I think
57:40
that a lot of the side character stuff works better. I think that a
57:45
lot of everything works better with this movie. Is this an instant classic where
57:51
I'm going to go out and buy the steel Book four kuhd and get it
57:55
signed at a convention to this particular movie. But well, what a crime
58:00
awesome? Shouldn't shouldn't every single version of Everybody's Not Everything needs to be a
58:06
four K steel Book? Okay's amazing? What is that is very Listen,
58:12
if you've got mail, if Phantasm can get a four K remaster, I
58:17
always go back to that one. If that, if that damn movie can
58:21
get a four K remaster or anything can well. I mean there's a criterion
58:24
of armacgeddon So hey, hey, you watch it now, we're gonna get
58:30
hate mail again now because it risk like it's a great Mott dirt fur and
58:35
just come look does a good job of explaining why you can't just train astronauts
58:39
to go into space. Instead you must send the oil workers. Well let's
58:45
let's not let's not train astronauts how to drill. Let's train drillers how to
58:49
how to ask astronaut? I mean those are only two options, so I
58:53
yeah, there's you couldn't fire a thing at the asteroid, try to knock
58:57
it off course. Anyway, Um, they discussed that in a movie.
59:00
Now you have me defending them. Okay, You've Got Mail. So anyway,
59:05
Yeah, we always had one missile. We could have ever fired at
59:07
it. So I think that all of that said, I think that a
59:13
lot of those problems I had the first time around are addressed here. I
59:16
do find I find Tom Hanks and make charming, big charm Meg Ryan more
59:22
charming this time around. And so I'm going to wind up coming in strong
59:29
with this one compared to last time and give it a three and a half
59:32
out of five awesome. Well, Tristan, I'm taking this account that this
59:37
is not your first time viewing. Is it the first time viewing with the
59:40
misses or is it on regular rotation? How is this viewing experience this time?
59:47
And overall impression, This is not the first time I've viewed it.
59:51
This is not the first time I've viewed it with my wife. But this
59:54
is not something that's in the regular rotation. Sleeps in Seattle that's in rotation,
1:00:00
but You've Got Mail is not. Even though I very I dig this
1:00:05
movie. I love this movie. This, this is a this is a
1:00:07
feel good movie to me. This is a movie that I I enjoy.
1:00:12
It's a movie that I think about sometimes, Like there's certain moments that pop
1:00:15
into my head, um, you know, throughout, like when when Tom
1:00:20
Hanks um, like when Meg Ryan bags Tom Hanks to leave, like please
1:00:24
just leep, just sleep, and he's like, okay, fine, and
1:00:27
then he just sits right behind her so they're back to back. Like that's
1:00:30
hilarious to me. Or like when he closes the door on the balloon and
1:00:36
says like, oh, thank god, it wasn't the fish. Apparently I
1:00:38
didn't know this, but apparently that actually that just happened on set, Like
1:00:44
that wasn't scripted or played. It felt like an imprompt moment. Yeah,
1:00:47
that was Tom Hanks being funny on set, and they're just like, oh,
1:00:51
you know, script we're keeping that. That's hilarious. Um like there,
1:00:54
and like when when Hanks is in the little car and like you see
1:00:58
the two kids and you see him and he just kind of waves. The
1:01:01
movie is filled with little moments like that that really make me smile and make
1:01:05
me happy. And when they mentioned The Godfather the Garnish bit, so I
1:01:08
could go on and on and on. I really like this movie. But
1:01:13
sometimes the structure gets me, you know, I think the structure is a
1:01:16
little weird. Part of me, upon rewatch, part of me is just
1:01:21
like this is this feels very rushed at the end, Like we have five
1:01:24
minutes of them actually developing a real friendship and relationship in person, and I
1:01:32
know that's five minutes more than what we got and sleeps in Seattle. So
1:01:36
it's a little I'm a little bit of it. Say it's more like ten
1:01:38
fifteen, but it is short compared to your rhyme fifteen. I don't know,
1:01:44
man, I don't know if it's fifteen. I think it might be
1:01:45
less than that. Well again, I would count it after the he finds
1:01:51
out, Like everything after the He's find out is him developing devilish. But
1:01:53
I get what you're saying. She's not really on that train until the very
1:01:57
very end. But I get what you're saying. Yes, I think I
1:02:00
think that's a very important distinction that I didn't make, Darren. I think
1:02:04
that's fair. That's very fair. Um. I like this movie. I
1:02:07
love this movie. It's not a perfect movie, so I give it a
1:02:10
strong four. I think this is a strong force, nothing to sneeze at.
1:02:14
I like it, but there's some things that could change. Yeah,
1:02:17
well this is not a new first time, you know what for me?
1:02:22
Can I interject here really quick? Anytime, John, I get to do
1:02:28
I get to do this, because this is this is a fluid thing.
1:02:30
But I was being a that was too harsh. But I was waffling between
1:02:36
three and a half and four, and honestly, I'm going to go up
1:02:38
to a four. I'm calling the audible. I'm going over. I feel
1:02:45
like I accomplished something. I don't know what. No, I wasn't I
1:02:49
wasn't really paying it. I wasn't really paying attention, and I just decided
1:02:52
to do that. So there you go. But yes, it's so moving
1:02:55
on. So this is not the first time I've watched You've got mail,
1:03:00
but it has been a little while. I probably watched this early dating,
1:03:04
you know, early marriage time, but it's been a couple couple of years.
1:03:08
Man. So again, it's funny how there'll be some moments that will
1:03:12
definitely hit you different in different phases of your life. So the whole ghostly
1:03:16
image of her dancing with her mother, oh was just like right in the
1:03:22
fields. And I'm like, yeah, because you know, you don't know
1:03:24
how long your parents are gonna be around. And okay, I'm okay,
1:03:29
I'm okay, I'm okay. She's losing the bookstore and it looks so nice.
1:03:34
Yeah, but no, but I love this is a fun movie.
1:03:36
I definitely enjoyed it a lot more than Sleepless, again just saying because it's
1:03:42
a megrand Tom Hanks duo. But I think again, the front could have
1:03:49
used a little bit of un nodding not and maybe if that, if that
1:03:54
had entailed moving that tipping point or what I like to call like the moment
1:03:59
when he finds out. If the earlier that happens, I think the better
1:04:01
the movie is because it gives you more of the progression of their relationship.
1:04:08
Obviously she cannot find out until the very end. That's just how this particular
1:04:13
story has to work, of her making that choice of it. I wished
1:04:16
it was you like that moment has to be towards the very very end of
1:04:20
the movie. But the courtship part, like, I love that part.
1:04:26
That's a great phase of the movie. And and you know, again they
1:04:30
do a good job of the beginning of you know, because Tom Tom makes
1:04:35
is it like a perfect guy but he's also not like a irredeemable you know,
1:04:41
asshole. Like it's not like that kind of a transition. It's more
1:04:44
like, I'm going to take a step back, look at what I've done
1:04:48
in this person's life. And he kind of he calls himself out. He's
1:04:53
like, I've been nothing but mean to you since we've met. And it's
1:04:57
like, yeah, dude, like you need to step up. So I
1:05:00
also give this movie a solid four. It is it. It's a fun
1:05:04
movie. You're just cheering for him at the end, and you're so glad
1:05:10
they worked through that weird stocking thing that happened in Seattle. It's all better.
1:05:15
I mean, heads and tails. I love. The romantic connection is
1:05:19
by far superior to Sleepless in Seattle, which was practically non existent. But
1:05:26
no, I think they, like we've talked about, they balanced the tight
1:05:29
rope. You know. Yeah, it's this weird nineties time when the internet
1:05:34
was new and not like superstockery. So like the fact that this guy just
1:05:39
walks into your apartment because he did get buzzed in like it. You know,
1:05:45
it could go wrong, but it doesn't. That scene was a little
1:05:48
weird. If I could change something like he's like sitting on her bed and
1:05:53
like like getting his fingers all close, like he's almost giving her a BackRub,
1:05:57
like he puts like when he puts his hand up to shusher, We're
1:05:59
like, okay, a threshold has been crossed. Like this is a moment.
1:06:04
True, it was weird, And the real villain of the movie is
1:06:08
the person who clearly saw that he was talking to someone and just care.
1:06:15
That's that's the real villain of this movie. It's I thought it was capitalism,
1:06:18
but you're right, it was. No. When you when you go
1:06:21
to when you go to a neighborhood and like there's a gate and like somebody's
1:06:26
just like laying there in wait for somebody to buzz it, and they're like
1:06:29
they they draft in behind them. I like in the movies where they go
1:06:32
and they push all the buttons because they know someone is not going to care
1:06:34
and just buzz in. And note someone did that to me at six in
1:06:40
the morning. Oh I I'll never forgive them. All. Right, Well,
1:06:45
we're giving You've got mail a wonderful four across the board. And guys,
1:06:51
today is officially two years that we've been podcasting as the three of us
1:06:58
in Oh. So, we've gone through a lot of movies, but still
1:07:01
a lot more to come. And we all met online and we did we
1:07:05
did. True, I didn't know who you were for a while and you
1:07:10
know, I'm just kidding you got it did not happen at all like this
1:07:14
movie. But uh, yeah, I went online looked at your letterbox and
1:07:16
I was like, I don't know if we can be friends, but I
1:07:20
know, I know we're trying to wrap up. But Darren, we met
1:07:24
at Vegas, right, like the first time in person we met, Yes,
1:07:27
And John we met when I went on a business trip to DC,
1:07:32
right, Yes, And we also met for dinner one time. I met
1:07:39
you halfway between the city where you were going, uh and where I live,
1:07:44
because your first comment when you walked off the plane you told me was,
1:07:46
oh, I can't believe how humid it is, and I said,
1:07:48
oh, no, this is actually really pleasant night where you talked about well.
1:07:53
And John and I met when he was on a business trip down in
1:07:55
sant So, all we have to do is find a central spot that's not
1:08:00
Chicago to gather together. That is the central spot. That's why I just
1:08:04
call it out. Indianapolis is technically easier to reach from anywhere in the country.
1:08:12
That's what they said during Star Wars celebration too. That's why they picked
1:08:15
the city. That's all. I gotta say, yes, because that's how
1:08:17
airplanes work. But but no, you're right, we've all met through online.
1:08:24
Because of online, we've been able to be able to stream the movies
1:08:29
we watch and talk about them with friends. And back when web pages would
1:08:33
load an image at a time, you could think that will never happen,
1:08:38
but it did. It finally caught up. So again, as we close
1:08:43
the hallway of Ephron here on house lights, John, where are we going
1:08:49
next? Deep below the surface? Well, we are going to go to
1:08:55
the portico of Peterson and we will. We're not calling it that, Well,
1:09:01
yeah we are. We will go in and listen. It's either that
1:09:04
or it's the basement of boat like it's one of those two things. But
1:09:08
we're going We're gonna look at the the nineteen eighties work of Wolfgang Peterson and
1:09:14
that to kick that off, Oh, we're gonna go. We're gonna go
1:09:18
with the director's cut, the director's cut of dust Bolt, which clocks in
1:09:26
at I believe two hundred eight minutes and eight that we established that we watched
1:09:31
the director's cut. Yeah, you guys, the director's preferred version whenever,
1:09:39
because this is a director's led podcast, and I'm like, oh God,
1:09:42
if only we could bend the rules this one time. Yeah, it's too
1:09:45
bad they're not cast edited for time version. We can the originals. The
1:09:51
original cinema version was one hundred forty nine minutes, and uh, you know,
1:09:57
but at least we're not choosing to go with the original uncut version,
1:10:00
which clocked in at three hundred eight minutes. So God for anybody that wants
1:10:04
to make fun of David Lynch's third season of Twin Peaks, Wolfgang Peterson was
1:10:10
the real trailblazer here, So join us for dust Bolt the Director's Cut.
1:10:15
Next on Houselights, Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.