Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 326 - The Silent Crisis: Christians Living in Secret Sin

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Ep. 326 - The Silent Crisis: Christians Living in Secret Sin · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: The key for me to keeping away from secret sin is to remember that sin and death always go hand in hand.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Death and sin are bedfellows.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: The wages of sin is death, and when you realize that the soul that sins that shall die, that helps you keep away from that which will destroy you Not just in this life but take you to hell in the next.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Whoever looks upon a woman to lust for her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: When I surfed, we had to travel, sometimes hundreds of miles to find the perfect wave and risk our legs as sharp bait freezing conditions, so pleased to be rid of that ego sport that I was into Speaking of perfect wave.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I almost drowned a few weeks ago.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: You did, Mark knows, tell us about it in a minute.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: But when it came to lust, I didn't have to travel anywhere, it was instantaneous pleasure and every man knows that.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It's just oh in the mind, imaginations of the heart.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And what it was that caused contrition was seeing the cost the Father went to to deliver me from that perversion.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: When I saw the cross, it broke my heart.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: That cost, that's what he did so I could have everlasting life.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So that helps me turn from the pleasures of sin for a season.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: It's always good to acknowledge that sin gives pleasure and don't say, oh, it'll eventually wreck you in this life.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, that's not the reason you come to Christ.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: You come to Christ because of that cross and that God commands you to turn from sin to Christ because of that cross, and that God commands you to turn from sin.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Mark, tell me a, really good secret that somebody has said to you that you're not supposed to tell anybody else.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Well, listen.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I hate repeating gossip, so you must listen very carefully the first time, just catching a prayer request.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, catching a prayer request.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a very listen.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: An unspoken prayer request typically, but I want everybody to know what it is so they can pray very specifically.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: You ever catch that when people do that.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Ray are you good at keeping secrets.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I cannot keep secrets.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely impossible.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I am not kidding.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: If I buy Sue a gift, a secret gift, I'm going to surprise her with.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I always tell her about it beforehand.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I cannot help myself.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: That's why God trusted me with Hell's Best Camp Secret.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see what he did there?
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Have you ever ruined a surprise party?
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I've never been at a surprise party.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: No one trusts you with them.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Well, we have a surprise for you, Ray.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Dude, I totally ruined a surprise party.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: A friend of mine was turning 40, and his wife was trying to throw him a surprise party and she I don't know why she made the mistake of choosing me to be the guy to coordinate with all of his guy friends.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: And so I'm actually out to lunch with you guys and Ken Hammett was after a recording and I get a text from her and she's like hey, can you forward this information to the guys?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: So we're in the middle of this lunch, you know, and I just pull up my phone and I'm like I just want to get it done before I forget about it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: So I copy it, I go to the group chat, I hit paste and send and he's part of it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: And he's in the group chat oh no.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And this is right.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: So what did it say?
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: We've got a surprise.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: It was like you know.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Here are the details for Ryan's birthday.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Show up at this time, like and so right.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, like the second I hit send, I see what I did and I start sweating.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And this is right.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: When the unsend feature came out for iPhone.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask about that.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I use that all the time.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: But if you yeah, I bet you do, but if you remember, like if people didn't update their phones it wouldn't work.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: And so I hit unsend right away and then I sent it into a different group chat and he ended up seeing the notification on an iPad come up and decided not to look at it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So he kind of knew something was going on.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: But anyway, don't trust me with your surprise parties.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: It is not wise and we have a secret.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Today we do Easy's not here, that's right.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: We have AI Easy to stand in A celebratory secret.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: A celebratory secret.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: You did almost pray.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: That's right, we have AI.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Ez to stand in A celebratory secret.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: A celebratory secret, a celebratory secret.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: You did almost pray, thanking God that he wasn't here.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we give thanks in all things.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and EZ is away studying on divine health.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: For a sermon he's going to preach.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: You know, listen, I actually have something I want to say about the surprise party.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I had a roommate who we were always doing jokes on each other, and he pulled a joke on me one time when I turned 30 or 25, whatever it was and he created a letter of some sort that said shh, it's Mark's birthday surprise party.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And then he crumbled it up in such a way to where I could still read what it was, and then he put it outside my office at the church.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Did he get you?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: He got me so good.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: I picked it up, it's a surprise party, mark walking around for a week, like I'm going to get surprised.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: There was no party.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: What did that do for your ego?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: He opens the door like I'm here.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Friends.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately he is out sick today.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: We do miss him.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: He's sick as a dog and I don't know why we have that saying, but he is he's as sick as a dog.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and for EZ to be sick and not show up, that's a big deal because he usually comes.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: He's a trooper.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: No matter what, that's quite the sweatshirt, blazer, jacket, sort, thank you.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: There is a hole in it.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to go ahead and tell you guys right now, when do?
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I get it, I'll fix the hole and it's yours.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: We do have a comment today.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: A comment comes from Shanna.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: My name is Shanna, I'm 20 years old and I just recently discovered the Living Waters podcast through a friend, about three weeks ago.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: I love it so much that now I listen every episode after episode during my shifts at work.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: 36 episodes later, I'm still so excited to listen to you guys' jokes, quotes, singing, sharing, crying and guiding.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: We're just as surprised as you are, shanna.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Life hasn't been the easiest and, to be honest, I was struggling, raised as a missionary kid, dragged back and forth across the Atlantic, struggling to fit in, fighting an eating disorder, healing from two failed relationships and finally now waiting on the Lord for guidance as I wrap up college.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Your podcast has meant so much to me and has been a true blessing and a source of encouragement during this pivoting time in my life.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Often do I feel like an episode was just for me at the right time.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I cannot thank you all enough for sharing your hearts out and talking about what a lot of people don't feel comfortable talking about from a biblical perspective.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Keep up the good work and may God keep blessing your ministry.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Sincerely, shanna.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Well, that's so nicely written.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we forget that there are real people, you know, with real situations, and people are just going through it, you know, and there's no greater place to run than to be with friends who are like-minded to open up the Word and to bear one another's burdens.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: And, whether we realize it or not, as we give forth the truth of God's Word and our experiences and what we've been through, we are bearing one another's burdens and just kind of being there for each other and saying listen, this isn't it.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I've read the final chapter.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: God wins.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Hang in there and look up, keep looking up.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It'll make sense one day.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I hate these short jokes.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Ben, Stop it.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Ray's been looking up his whole life.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know, I love, I love hearing quotes like this, because our comments like this, because we, we see, you know we just surpassed six million downloads.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Crazy, but six million.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: When you see that number, it's actually just a number.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: What's behind that number are people like shana, just individuals that are being encouraged and edified.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: And so, just to all of our listeners and viewers now on livingwaterstv thank you so much for hanging with us.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: When we meet you out in public, it feels like a symbiotic relationship.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: You know our inside jokes.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: You're commenting on stories that we've told about family and friends, whatever the case is, and so just thank you for riding along with us and thank you for these comments.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Keep sending them in and there'll be no singing today.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: That's right and for sure.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: There will be no singing today.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: You had to go there.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: You had to go there Also.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Side note EZ totally would have cried during that one.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: My voice, yeah, your voice.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I just about cried during that Okay.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is titled Silent Crisis Christians Living in Secret Sin.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Guys, we have a title.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: We've actually, as usual, we don't talk about what we're going to talk about.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: When you see Christians living in secret sin, what sin comes to mind?
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Mark Easy Ray.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: The sin of easy and Ray.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I think of an oxymoron as soon as I see that.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Secret sin.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: There's Easy Ray, the sin of easy and Ray Well, I think of an oxymoron as soon as I see that Secret sin.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: The etymology of oxymoron, the Greek, is oxus, which is very interesting.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: An ox with oxygen, which just means sharp, and moros, which means foolish.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So it's very pointed foolishness to think you can have a secret sin.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: No such thing.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: It's coming through the door of idolatry, if you really believe that, because the eye of the Lord is in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: And the secret sin I think of is usually lust.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: That's the secret sin that sits in the human heart.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Adrian Rogers said every secret sin is an open spectacle in heaven that he sees it all.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I agree with Ray right.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I think what plagues men more than women typically is lust, sexual sin to some degree.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: And the thing is and I hope we get into it in a little bit is that men feel like they're all alone and there's an embarrassment that's attached to that.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they feel like they're one of a kind.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: What's interesting?
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I pulled up some data on just pornographic websites.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: So 44% of men between the ages of 18 and 29 reported this is self-reported consuming porn in the last month.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: 60% of men between the ages of 30 and 49 reported consuming porn in the last month.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Women account for 20% of users on a pornographic website.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: That's crazy.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: In 2006, the porn industry was $100 billion industry.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: We actually don't have more data past 2006 significant data.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: We can only assume, though, that that $100 billion industry has only grown, and so, to put that into perspective, the NFL is a $20 billion a year industry.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Nba $12 billion a year industry.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: This soccer, which is the biggest sport in the entire world, $60 billion a year.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: That means the NFL, nba and soccer do not make combined are a smaller industry than the porn industry at $100 billion In 2023, porn sites received more visits than Amazon, Netflix and TikTok Combined.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think combined, no, but more visits.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: So, with these numbers, what that tells us is that two in 10 women and seven in 10 men, maybe even in churches, are struggling with this, at least in the last month.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Mark, do you think that's true?
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Do you think those numbers?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: are different in the church.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: No, I think that there's some legitimacy to that.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Numbers are weird, right.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I do know that John Piper had said when he had men trying to enter into the ministry where he would wanna train them.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: He stopped asking them the question have you ever looked at porn?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And he changed it to train them.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: He stopped asking them the question have you ever looked at porn?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And he changed it to the question when was the last time you looked at porn?
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ray, at one point you were posting videos, and Eddie and I would joke like it was only a matter of time until you would make the comment.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: You've been watching porn, haven't you?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I actually asked that question.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: When did you last look at porn?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Because, that's what they're not expecting.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you look at porn?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: They can easily say no, but say when did you last look at porn?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: They're not expecting that and you usually get a smirk or an admittance within about five seconds.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Were you ever surprised?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I've always been surprised.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And it's.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I've always been surprised, yeah, and I shouldn't be, because there's such incredible easy access to it.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: It's a split second you can be in a porn site.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Not that I'm speaking from experience, but I know that is the case and I see so many students as they go to college looking at their phones.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I've gone up to someone and said, excuse me, they go like that oh, you were into something, weren't you?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Wow, said excuse me, and they go like that oh, you were into something, weren't you?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, it's great to be able to say to them afterwards what do you think God thinks of that?
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: And they say I don't think he likes it, or he's disappointed in me.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Say disappointed, no, no, his wrath abides on you because you're committing adultery in your heart and storing up wrath that's going to be revealed on the day of wrath.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: People, we talk about struggling with lust, we use those words together, right, and it's almost condoning it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: You're struggling with lust?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: No, how about you're struggling with adultery?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: You would never say that to someone.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: You don't struggle with it, you just don't do it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And so I love Tozer's.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably his most famous quote.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: What comes to mind into our mind when we think about God is the most important thing about us.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important, as Christians sharing the gospel, that we do what Jesus did and go through the divine law and show that God requires truth in the inward parts, that the law is spiritual, that God sees lust as adultery, he sees hatred as murder and lying lips are an abomination to the Lord.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So when someone comes through that door into the Christian walk, they can sanctify themselves because they have that knowledge that God sees everything.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And someone who makes a profession of faith and doesn't understand that is going to think he can have secret sins.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: He doesn't realize the eye of the Lord is in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And the analogy I like to use and whatever you do, don't this but don't do this.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Let's say you fly to the Sun and land on its surface and you drill a hole right down to the middle of the Sun and pull up the middle atom of the Sun and you split the atom.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that would do atomic wise, but you split the atom, open it up and God knows exactly what's in the middle of it.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: That's so good, because he made it yeah.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So when you realize that you have that understanding that helps you live a life of holiness, walking in the fear of the Lord, and when you don't have that knowledge, then there's no fear of God before your eyes.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And the Bible says through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: You'll not depart from evil unless you have that fear of the Lord.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Mark, you have daughters right around that age of either dating or headed even towards the potential of being married in the next couple of years.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: How do you address this concern about they're going out and starting to date men in their young 20s?
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Do you talk to them about it?
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Is that something you have a conversation with those men?
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: How do you navigate that as a father?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Well, my oldest daughter does have a boyfriend and we do talk about sexual temptations and everything associated with that.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: We've had a couple talks with that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: So, mark, how do you bring that?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: up with your daughter.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Is it difficult With my daughter or with her boyfriend?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Who do you?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: talk to about it Him Him With my daughter or with her boyfriend?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Who do you talk to about it Him Him specifically?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't talk to your daughter.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I think my wife does a little bit more than I do right.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: But I do address it you know, with him we just met last night.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: You know we have kind of a men's accountability group with my boys and with him.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: His name is Ryan Boy, fine young man you know, who loves God, who wants to walk with God.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: He's a good hooper too.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: He's a good hooper too.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: He's a good hooper.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is a good hooper, and you know he wants to walk with God, he wants to be honorable.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So, mark, what did you say to him?
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I've heard you.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I have heard you in action and I was horrified, absolutely horrified.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: You have to be quick-witted with Mark.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I had an assistant, an old assistant who was here and she didn't really have a father figure inside of her life.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: So she brought this guy that she really liked over to the ministry and we're inside my office and I just start asking the difficult questions about these different words, right?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: And about pleasure and things of that nature and the next thing I know Ray's like all hot in the face.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: You were there.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: He's all yeah, I gotta get out of here.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I was there, but he did great, I mean he was all hot, yeah, he did, and he's a neat man, he's a neat guy, neat couple.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: You just broach the subject, you just come right out and you want to get inside their life and you want what's best for the people around and you don't shy away because they're not going to go away.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I think that's so wise because you don't want to do it when you've got a pregnant daughter Right, and so wise because you don't want to do it when you've got a pregnant daughter.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: And then you'd say man, I wish I'd been harder about this.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Why is it?
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: I have to imagine young men.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, I used to participate, volunteer in college ministry and guys struggling was just the common thing, unfortunately, and so often than not it was like oh well, you know it's hard being single once I get married, but it affects the wedding bed, doesn't it?
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: How does it listen?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: if you don't kill sin before you get married, it's not going to be dead once you get married.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Amen, right, it's like your mind if your mind wanders before you get married, it's going to wander after you get married.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So this is why we need to kill it now.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Right, who said be killing sin or sin will be killing you?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: John Owen, john Owen, the Puritan theologian.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Right, be killing sin now, or it will be killing you.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Somebody could say, well, I did that act, I did that deed, I looked at that thing, but I'm done.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: My question is are you done?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not done with you.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: You maybe think you are done with it for the night, or it's going to come back, and if you don't kill it, it will kill you.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And the reason, the way you know that it'll be done with you, is you will be dead.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Remember that we say it all the time so a thought, you reap an action.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: So an action, you reap a habit.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So an habit, you reap a character.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: So a character, you reap a destiny.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: It all starts with that thought Get that under control, or it's going to control you.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Ray, some people nowadays you mentioned asking people about it and they kind of get surprised.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: But nowadays sometimes people in certain circles look at watching pornography as like a pastime.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: It's not an embarrassment.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: There are even an increase of couples married couples that will watch it together.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: What is going on?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's going on is a seared conscience, and I've talked to non-Christians.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: You look at a porn.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Feel guilty the first time, yeah.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Second time, not so guilty were you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Third time, you felt comfortable.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: What's happened is you took the batteries out of the smoke detector.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: That's what's happened, and now you can sleep and enjoy it, not realizing your house is on fire, and that's what's.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You're in terrible danger.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: You're talking about lust being a monster.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You've got to kill uh, it doesn't go away the monster.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I've been married for 104 years.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: What are you combined, yeah, combined so what is it?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: 50 something, uh, 52 or 108, I can't remember.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm in trouble, yeah, anyway, uh, I'm 75 years old and I've still got that monster on my shoulder Going hunting to beach.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Enough, I mentioned to you before that I go on Saturday mornings.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: I used to go about 1 o'clock on Saturday afternoons in summer.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I now go at 9.30 in the morning.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Less bathing suits, no more bathing suits.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I want more clothes, not less.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Crazy man.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because I can get a park easier, it's not so hot and the girls wear their clothes when it's cooler, because I've got a problem.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: It's 75.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And I love that scripture, I love all scripture.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Hebrews 12, verse 1,.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Therefore, also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And I grabbed that word easily the other day and just thought about it and I think why is it that I'm a man of God with a fear of God in my heart, that sin, especially lust, so easily ensnares me?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: It's like it's got access into my brain before I even realize it's there.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: It's there and same with selfishness, same with jealousy and pride, sins that I should have conquered years ago.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: They have easy access.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: But even though sin easily ensnares us, god's mercy is equally accessible.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: The second sin gets in.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: You say Lord, please forgive me, you'll wash clean If we confess our sins.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So thank God for the cross, amen.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I had quite the encounter last week when I was on a flight next to a guy.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I wasn't able to sit next to my wife.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: The plane was full and the guy next to me had on his iPad.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: He propped it up on the seat in front of him and the entire movie had nudity all throughout and I'm like holding a thing up.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to talk to me and he got up to go use the restroom.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: And I had a dilemma Change it?
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: No, my dilemma was to delete the folder of all the movies that he had on his iPad.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And I was like this close to doing it, couldn't you just trip?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: over.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, but I was looking at the apps that he had on his iPad and he had several Bible apps that were on his iPad.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Well, that should go to a Bible Highlight, a scripture.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, that would have been great, but yeah, he wouldn't talk to me.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Well, what a shame there was no windows in the plane you could have just reached and tossed it out.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: You know, often when we talk about whether it's lust looking at women as they pass by, some of the more extreme is pornography, premarital sex.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I think oftentimes it's positioned as though God is trying to hold joy back from you, as though, like these laws, god's laws that he gives us, they're just these arbitrary rules that they're just kind of bummers, kind of like having to go to a school where they make you wear a uniform.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: You know where you're like.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Come on, man, I like can't, I just enjoy myself and express myself.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that we should remember.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I love the way CS Lewis put it.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I've quoted him before on this, um, and I won't stop, because it's fantastic.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: He compares God's law to a holiday at the sea.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: He says something like you know, often we think he's trying to rob us of joy, when actually he's trying to invite us into a more joy filled life.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: And settling for sin is like settling for making mud pies in the dump when God is offering you a holiday at the sea.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: And we talked about how, in some parts of culture, watching porn is now just like a pastime.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: But what's interesting is now, of course, the science and the data is confirming what the scriptures have always said, which is that looking and lust pornography, that all of it is setting you up for failure.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Because what ends up happening is comparison kills joy.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And when you're looking at every girl that passes you by, when you have such a familiar familiarity with websites of pornography, when you go into the wedding bed, you cannot help but compare your spouse to those things.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: And no spouse, no human being will ever be able to satisfy the make-believe fantasies of being able to look at whatever woman doing whatever thing at whatever time that you possibly want.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Those are fantasies that are not real, and yet our minds gravitate towards that fantasy becoming a reality.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: And what ends up happening is that people who watch pornography, people who tend to look they, tend to have a less satisfied sexual life in marriage, because comparison kills.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: And so to the young man or woman that's out there, not married yet wondering how harmful could it be, you are setting yourself up for a harder time in marriage.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: God is not holding you back from joy.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: He's trying to invite you into a more joy-filled life invite you into a more joy-filled life.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as Kirk had said at Texas University, he was opening a preaching.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: He said God is not this cosmic killjoy who wants to suck all the fun out of our lives.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Right, you're a brave man.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we can't mention anything about that.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: The most terrifying moment of my life.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's wonderful, mark.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I was actually going to lead this.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Wait, I want to hear the most terrifying moment of your life Just as well.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about it ever.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Mark.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what I was going to say right through me off.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Proverbs 14, verse 2.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Flavorful.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I never really thought about this verse before, but it shows why we have atheism, atheists and people that are angry at God, and people that don't believe in God and people that use God's name as a cuss word.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Listen to it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Proverbs 14, verse 2,.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: He who walks in his uprightness fears the Lord, but he who is perverse in his way despises him.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's good.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Pornography is a perversion of that which God planned.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love saying to non-Christian guys you're in a pornea.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Did you realize that God gave you the rules for sex?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Just within the confines of marriage?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It says enjoy the breasts of your wife.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It tells us in Hebrews that the bed is the best place for sex.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: The bed is undefiled, and so pornography is a perversion, and it's because of that perversion people despise God.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: For the same reason, criminals hate the police.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Ray, what is that text that says that all those who commit adultery?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: forget their thoughts.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: That's so good.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Wow, or under God's wrath, oh boy, never mind.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I remember what I was going to say, though.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That's good enough.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: There was a pastor who was speaking to his congregation.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: He was talking about his child, his daughter, who was involved in pornography Excuse me, like making pornography, oh wow.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: And he looked at the congregation and he got very stern and he said stop looking at pornography, you'll be looking at my daughter and he goes.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And he was beside himself in the midst of it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: But I just I saw the tears of a father dealing with their child who did not follow the ways of the father.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, heartbreaking, totally heartbreaking.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: That means something's coming.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I know, we know.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, secret sin.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Regarding secret sin, the key for me to keeping away from secret sin is to remember that sin and death always go hand in hand.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Death and sin are bedfellows.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: The wages of sin is death.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: When you realize that the soul that sins it shall die.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: That helps you keep away from that which will destroy you Not just in this life, but take you to hell in the next.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Whoever looks upon a woman to lust for her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: There are people that say now that's talking about looking at married women.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Ever heard people say that I get?
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: that a lot.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: So, okay, help me out here.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: How do you know which woman are married or not?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Well, you have to go out to them and say excuse me, ma'am, are you married Because I want to lust after you?
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And she says I am Okay, I'm not going to, you only watch porn with a single woman, or is it no married woman?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It's crazy and it just means that if you look at a woman and lust for her, you commit adultery within your heart.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: And I remember the first time I ever saw that verse was about 9 pm at night, april the 24th 1972.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I saw that verse in the Sermon on the Mount and I went no, and my heart sunk, not out of repentance but out of the knowledge that God saw my thought life.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And he says that's adultery of the heart.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And the reason my heart sank is because lust gave me so much instant pleasure.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: When I surfed, we had to travel sometimes hundreds of miles to find the perfect wave and risk our legs as shark bait freezing conditions.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: So pleased to be rid of that ego sport that I was into Speaking of perfect wave.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I almost drowned a few weeks ago.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: You did, Mark knows, tell us about it in a minute.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: But when it came to lust, I didn't have to travel anywhere, it was instantaneous pleasure and every man knows that.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's just oh in the mind, imaginations of the heart.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And what it was that caused contrition was seeing the cost the Father went to to deliver me from that perversion.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: When I saw the cross, it broke my heart.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: That cost, that's what he did so I could have everlasting life.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So that helps me turn from the pleasures of sin for a season.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: It's always good to acknowledge that sin gives pleasure and don't say, oh, it'll eventually wreck you in this life.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: No, no, that's not the reason you come to Christ.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: You come to Christ because of that cross and that God commands you to turn from sin.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: You just about drowned, oh yeah, okay.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So Mark and I were suffering for the Lord in Hawaii and we were there filming for something we're doing at Living Waters TV, and we had a free afternoon.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: We were done filming they're filming for something we're doing at Living Waters TV and we had a free afternoon we were done filming, and so at this point we're in North Shore, hawaii, north Shore.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's during the big pipeline tournament or whatever it's called.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: That's when the shore break will kill you.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: So mind you, the waves are already like 30 feet high, but the competition's not on because they're not big enough.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Apparently, they need to be no less than 35 feet, but they want them to actually be at 40 feet, was this at Wyomere Bay?
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: That was one of the bays.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Sunset Beach.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I think that was one of the bays.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Sunset Beach.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: So all the beaches are closed down because with flags, like, no one's allowed to go down to the beach.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: The only people, lee, are surfers.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: There's a handful of other silly people, but we want to go snorkeling.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: There's this one little area called Shark's Cove.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: What cove, shark's Cove?
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Are you crazy, it doesn't sound.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: Actually it's like a baby wading pool.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: It's perfect for Mark.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: It is, it really is.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: It's like maybe four feet high at most, and so people are just kind of swimming around.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: It's like staying at murderer's motel.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't bad.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: No, it's covered by rocks, so the waves can't hit it right.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: And so me and Brett and Matthew and David Howling get a little bored of this like baby pool.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And so we see this little cove that is not covered by rocks and we're like, oh you know, the waves don't look that bad right now, let's go snorkel in that cove, cause it's supposed to be really good.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: So we hike on over there and, um, the waves are starting to come in, and so we hop in the water and I, like you have to paddle out between the coral.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: So you're kind of like weaving and bobbing between coral while the waves are pushing you back, you know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: So you're swimming against the power of the wave.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I jam out there and I turn around and and Brett and the other guys are still on the beach like dealing with the waves or trying to get out.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Once I get out, I'm in this little pool that's maybe the size of this room, so 20 by 20 feet for those who can't see and the waves.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden you know what this feels like the water gets real low and starts pulling out.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: You know a big set's coming, and so I feel like the water starts to sink down real low.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're about to die, you're about to die.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like rocks are starting to come out of the water.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: That's how low it's getting.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: And so then I start seeing the waves coming, and so I'm like, okay, so I swim down to try to get in front of the break, and I do, but now I'm basically in this small pool with coral wrapped around me.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Like managing the power of the wave, I'm just preventing myself from hitting coral, and I'm like this isn't fun, like I'm just managing danger.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I got to get out of here.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I would have died.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Mark was like I would have died, but now the waves are so big that I can't.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: I have to swim through coral to get back in.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: So I have to wait for these waves to die down and it's like five, six seven minutes, so you just had a snorkel.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I was imagining you with a surfboard, but you, I'm out there, I'm gassed man, I'm just paddling and paddling, preventing myself from hitting coral.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I finally make it back into the shore.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Eddie's son, Matthew, has got a coral stuck in his hand.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: The guys just never got out there.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: By the time I got back I was so gassed and exhausted.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: We saw Mark 10 minutes later he goes.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question?
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I would have died, wouldn't?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I yeah probably.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way around that.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Mark's not a good swimmer.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Luke 8, verse 17,.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: It says for nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to the light.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Listen to this quote from Ravi Zacharias Sin will take you further than you want to go, it'll keep you longer than you want to stay and it will cost you more than you are willing to pay.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: And you consider the source of that right.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: For those who don't know.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ravi Zacharias was a very well-esteemed Christian apologist.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: He has since passed.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: God knows his fate.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: But after he had passed a lot has come out.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: How much of it is true, I don't know.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I know he's got family members that believe that he was a very devious individual and with a very secret life.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Apparently I didn't go too deep into it, but completely heartbroken.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And John MacArthur made an interesting observation about Ravi one time.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: He said Ravi always had a story but he never had a verse.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, he was always willing to share an experience, but he was never willing to share a scripture.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Consider that right Scripture.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: How can a young man take heed according to God's word?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: How can a young man keep himself pure?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: By taking heed according to his word?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: You want to walk that straight and narrow path.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Get the word of God in you, delight yourself in the word and there will be ample opportunities for you to preach the word to yourself.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I hide your word in my heart that I might not sin against you, that's right.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I actually want to go there, but before we do, I want to talk about you.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Gently referenced you, ray.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Gently reference James 1.15.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: We compromise so much with sin.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Ray, what do you do when someone says it doesn't hurt to look?
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Of course it doesn't hurt, it feels good to look, but you're sinning against God.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: That's what David said in Psalm 51, against you and you only have I sinned and done this evil in your sight.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So it's very important to remind sinners that sin is vertical, it's not horizontal, it's vertical.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: We sin against God David in his repentant prayer, penitent prayer.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: God David in his repentant prayer, penitent prayer, hardly made reference to the sin being horizontal, a horizontal, it was vertical.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Did I get it right before?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Anyway, one thing that I used to do with my kids when we were having devotions is I'd say kids, think of a number, don't tell anyone 13.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: 11.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: That's what we'd do, but they wouldn't speak it out.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And then I'd say think of a color.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Blue.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, blue was the name.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And then I say don't tell anyone, just think it.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Now, god knows exactly the number you thought and the color you chose.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: And it's great to instill into kids that the eye of the Lord is in every place and that the Lord knows the thoughts of man, as it says in Psalm 94, verse 11.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Also, something I like doing with the unsaved too is say to them do you know that God knows how many hairs are on your head?
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: They say, really, yeah, jesus said that.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: He says every hair on your head is numbered.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: How does that make you feel?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: And that makes them bolder than the warm fuzzies, just to think that God knows how many hairs are on the head.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: He knows you by name.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Then I say God sees your thought life.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: How does that make you feel?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: And not so warm and fuzzy when you bring out the commandments and you bring out that God requires truth in the inward parts, that the law is spiritual, and so it's a good thing to do to instill the fear of God into sinners so that when they come to the Savior they walk in the fear of the Lord.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: That's good, there is a very good litmus test that you can take by yourself that doesn't require anybody else, and it's kind of based off what DL Moody, the evangelist, once said.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: He said our character is what we do when no one is watching, right?
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: And you said something kind of similar with your Tozer quote, right?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not my Tozer quote, anyone, but it's the idea of you can see where your heart is at, you can see where you are spiritually at.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Take this litmus test when no one's around and you can do anything you want to do.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: So good, what do you do?
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Take a nap.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Finally some peace and quiet.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Here's the internet, here's your phone and you can look at any site.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Where do you go, what do you do?
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: So that's a good litmus test to see where you're at.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah To that person.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Does that scare you?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The whole thought of that terrifies me.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: That I'd be left to my own heart?
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thought of that terrifies me.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: That I'd be left to my own heart?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's been said that the first step of God's wrath is allowing man to do what he wants.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Right, so he pulls back and allows man to just be man, because he's going to self-destruct.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: The last thing you want is to be left to yourself.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: You don't want to be left to yourself.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: You don't want to be left to yourself.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: You want god to call the shots so good.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the sin of adam.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Really, the mentality of adam, um, adam hid himself from god.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what was this concept of what god was like?
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Adam, adam and uh, that's what sinners do?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: They think you can have a secret that God doesn't see?
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also funny to me that it's like he puts the tree in there and he's like, hey, don't eat of that.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: And you know Adam and Eve.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: It's not like they're like, oh, we got this and they held out for 90 days.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: It's not like they held out for a year.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: They had all of paradise.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: They didn't even take them 24 hours, like they went right to it you know what I mean which has taken millions of years.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: That's right, no, but you know, going back to the question of, uh, you know that person that's like, well, it doesn't hurt to look.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: I remember one time we're on, I was on the basketball court playing a pickup game and, uh, this friend of mine, who I know through basketball, he claims to be a christian.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And uh, and I'm not claiming that he's not by making that statement, I'm just telling you he self, he self-proclaims as a Christian and I look over at him and he's watching some girl walk by and then he looks at me and he kind of like, huh, huh, and I was like, bro, what's up with that?
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: He's married and he's like, oh, it doesn't hurt to look.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: And I told him Genesis 4, 7, sin is crouching at your door and we've talked about that before.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Think about the metaphor that God is using in that statement.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Sin is crouching at your door.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I've said before, it gives you the image of like a lion.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Why do lions crouch?
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Why do snakes hide?
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Because they don't want you to see them coming, because they want you to think they're smaller than they really are.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: That's why snakes curl, so that if you get a little bit closer to them, they can leap up at you.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Right, sin is crouching at your door.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: It wants you to feel safe.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: It wants itself to feel small.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: It desires to have you.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Think of David's story.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Do you realize?
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: His story of adultery and murder all started with a look he saw her.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: That's how it all starts.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: It starts with a look.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Sin was crouching at David's door.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: It desired him and for a minute it had him.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: And so we can't trifle with sin.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: We can't flirt with sin.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: We can't make sin seem small because we play right into its traps.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: You know, we were in Jerusalem years ago.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: There was a group of us and I remember we stood exactly where David stood and they said but she ought to have been over there.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And we're all just standing.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I said, let's get out of here pretty quick, because everyone's imagination was suddenly going crazy, so we jumped and left.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: That's funny.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: You know, I was at the John Wayne Airport the other day and I was walking by a very specific bench.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: It was a bench that I was sitting at with my son and I was on my way to Columbia or someplace, and I had stopped.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I paused, I was with my wife and I looked at the bench and I said this is where I sat when I received the text that Steve Lawson became disqualified and fell into sexual sin.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Wow, and I go, look, I don't want to just miss this moment.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: It's like this, right, this talk is healthy talk.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: So Steve Lawson, very respected, very respected, very respected author, one who has taught expository preaching, was over the doctorate program, over at the Master's Seminary, who still has not come out.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: There's a lot there, right.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to unpack it in its totality.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, if God were to mark sin publicly, who can stand right?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: But my point is just simply, we need to always take inventory Because if it wasn't for God's grace, there go I, there go you.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: It's really God that is holding us together.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Adrian Rogers said we cannot expect God to cover what we are unwilling to uncover.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: The quarterback said that that is so funny.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe we can talk for just a moment.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: What do we do?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: What does that individual do who's listening and saying guys, you just don't know my situation.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: You want me to uncover what.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: What exactly do you want me to say?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: You want me to go to my wife and say something to someone who doesn't understand.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, she won't get it.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Or you want me to go to my boss and explain this.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: You want me to confess this to my kids.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, what is it that you're exactly asking from me?
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Because I've already confessed this to the Lord and maybe I find myself in a rut like one of those revolving doors.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: I just can't get out of this.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: How do we speak hope and life into those people?
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: It's a great question.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: I'm going to answer that question, but I want to broaden the scope a little bit, because Peter Adam, he wrote an article online and he lists sins, because I think some people are thinking lust, pornography, whatever.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: But let me broaden that scope a little bit in regards to the willingness to confess and then how we confess or why it's important to still confess to another person.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: So he speaks specifically to pastoral leaders and he says these secret sins include the dramatic, newsworthy sins of sexual abnormalities, sexual, physical, psychological or spiritual abuse, pornography, alcoholism, drug use, sins within marriage and family, financial gain or irregularities.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: And then he says these secret sins include the undramatic, unnewsworthy sins of prayerlessness.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Unnewsworthy sins of prayerlessness pride in your body or mind, personal ambition for success, fame or glory, avoiding accountability, having an inflated sense of your own importance, control of micromanagement, ignoring people, using them for our own purposes, refusing to benefit from the corrections of others, divisiveness, believing that the end the glorious, urgent of the gospel justifies any means, even if means includes controlling, manipulating, coercing, using or abusing people.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: Cynicism about God or the gospel, superficiality in relationships, escapism through dependence on social media or Netflix.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Unrealistic, unbalanced projection of an online image trying to impress people rather than God, allowing the urgent to crowd out the important.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Laziness or lack of productivity, self-centeredness, workaholism, constant shortcuts in preparing sermons, bible teaching, including trivial use of the Bible, constantly riding hobby horses or pinching other people's sermons, an inflated estimate of your own importance, insight, knowledge, gift or abilities, taking personal credit when things go well and avoiding it when things don't go well.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: A habit of self-deception, a lack of fruit of the spirit.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: In other words, that's a list, bro.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: What do we do?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Respectful sins.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Respectful sins, that was Jeff Bridges so good man, you bring up a really good point, because the scripture does tell us confess your sins and you will be healed.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: God intends to allow us.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: He's inviting us joyfully.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: This is an invitation by God to confess our sins to one another in the context of community, and I would say there's discretion to be used.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: I would say, for example, somebody who's struggling with porn.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: My counsel to you and this isn't like hard law, but my counsel to you is confess that sin to a pastor and then ask that pastor to walk you through that conversation with your wife.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Right, Maybe your wife isn't the first one, though I think she should eventually be be wise about it.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: But you're looking for reconciliation, for healing, and one of the other things is we can only preach the gospel to ourselves.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: So far, A part of confessing your sins to a faithful brother or sister is you're inviting them to preach the gospel to yourself.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I love the way JI Packer talks about having a spirit-filled life.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: He says having a spirit-filled life is being melted with the understanding that when God sees you, he sees you as more precious than all the jewels in earth.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: And here's the thing.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: I think that a lot of Christians struggle with a lack of emotional maturity, and what I mean by that is that there are so many of us that has this mentality like I'm one of the good guys, I'm a good Christian, and any time our sin bubbles up into our lives, it's a contradiction to who we see ourselves to be a good guy, good person, a strong Christian and so it causes us to hide that reality about who we are.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: We try to outpace our sin with good deeds.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: That's a good way to pause on that.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: We attempt to outpace our sin with good deeds, as if there's the scale and we're going to try to let now our good outweigh our bad.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: That's right, right, wow.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: And so what does emotional maturity take?
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Emotional maturity requires us to have the confidence in Christ in order for us to admit our sin.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Emotional maturity is like Paul in Romans 7.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: He puts it on display.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: He's not hiding from his sin.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: He's a seasoned church planning elder pastor, theologian, apologist, author Probably pretty good pickleball player.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: No, I don't know.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: He says Romans 7, for I do not understand what I'm doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: And now, if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: So now I'm no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me, for I know that nothing good lives in me.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: That is in my flesh, for the desire to do what is good is within me.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: That is in my flesh, for the desire to do what is good is within me, but there is no ability to do it, for I do not do the good that I want to do, but practice the evil that I do not want to do.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: Now, if I do not do what I want to do, I am no longer the one who does it, but it is sin that lives in me.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Listen, I think so often our emotional immaturity comes from the reality that when we confess our sins or that we try to be a Christian, we're really just doing it to avoid bad consequences.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: That's such a different gospel, you know.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I heard it explained.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: Well, actually I was listening to a sermon and he reminded me of the situation that we had in my prior church.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: We had a guy who was an alcoholic.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: He was spiritually and verbally abusive to his wife and they've been married years and years and years and finally, when it all came out, she kicked him out.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: And you know we would have a conversation with him and he was like, oh man, like she, she's never kicked me out before.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: This is really bad, I don't know what to do.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Like I'm, you know he was going through rehab, he was sleeping on someone's couch.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: He was sleeping on someone's couch and the consequences of his sin were so clear to him, and so he goes back to her and he apologizes because he realizes his life is in turmoil.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: And I got to be honest with you, me and a couple of the other guys.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: We were really hesitant to celebrate the potential of true repentance Because if you listened closely, he was like man, I really messed my life up.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: My life is uncomfortable.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: I'm dealing with the consequences of my sin.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: I want my bed back.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: I want my wife back.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: I wanna be back in my home.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: I don't want the humiliation of being a father that doesn't live with his children.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: It was me, me, me, my, my, my.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: I need to protect myself.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: No, I'm sorry.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: No, I'm sorry.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: No, what does true repentance require?
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Contrition, contrition.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: It also requires a love.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: For him to look at his wife and to be able to say man, I love you and I hate what I have done to you.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: That is the beginning of true repentance when you have a love that expels those other false love.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: Thomas Chalmers calls it the expulsive power of a new affection.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: What he required, what needed to happen in that guy's heart, is his love for God, and his love for his wife and children needed to outpace his love for himself.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: And it had not happened yet.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: And so, for our own selves, like, how do we?
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: You ask the question.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: You're stuck in a loop.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: You cannot repent.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: You're stuck with that sin that no one knows about.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: What can you do, man?
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: You need to expel those old loves with a new love.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: To go back to what I said about JR Packer, what is so amazing about God is that he sees us as his prized possession.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Once you understand God's love for you, your love for him begins to increase.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: When you dwell upon the loveliness of God, that will give transforming power in your life.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Repentance is a transforming power that happens when you understand the love of God and the loveliness of God.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Look to the cross, amen.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: That's where you see it epitomized.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I love 1 Corinthians 7, verse 9, because it's just so picturesque.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: It's better to marry than to burn Burn.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I love the way Scripture puts it because that's what's going to happen than to burn Burn.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I love the way scripture puts it because that's what's going to happen.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Lust is like a fuel.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Sexual desire is like a fuel.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: It'll eat you up and it needs material.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: That's what it needs.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So good, fire needs material.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: So you've got to stop there.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And so, if you're not married, use the water of the word to put that fire out.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Feed yourself on the word.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Renew your mind.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: This book will keep me from sin, and sin will keep me from this book is a wonderful thing that someone said to write in the front of your Bible.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: This book will keep me from sin, and sin and death are synonymous, and sin will keep me from this book.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: So the first time, the second, you get into pornography, you won't want to open God's word, because the entrance of God's word brings light and you don't want light to come to your soul.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: So, ray break down the practicality of this right.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: So, young man, he's left to himself.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: The temptation comes.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: He's worn back and forth.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: What does he do at that moment?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Open scripture and start quoting the Bible out loud and let it soak into your soul and think of the greatness of God, think of the cross, the cost of redemption, and then run from sexual sin.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Physically run, yeah, physically run.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Leave the room.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: If you can't get rid of your computer, just get out of there.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Go for a run.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Burn that energy off.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Run a mile in three minutes.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Don't die.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: World record has done.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Listen, call someone, call.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Don't.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Don't go through this alone because you're not alone.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Right, there is that thought that I am all alone.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Nobody knows what I am going through.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Matthew henry said god is more willing to forgive us than we are willing to repent, that the idea of you repenting does not originate with you.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Right, god grants repentance that leads to the truth.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Start with accountability.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Let me read you a few accountability questions that you can give somebody these questions and you say, hey, I want you to ask me these questions.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Some very thought-provoking questions.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: What images or videos did you view?
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Or what movies?
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: What TV?
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: What have you been visiting?
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Sound of music, what websites did you visit?
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: The Hills?
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Would you be able to tell fellow Christians in your church what you viewed without being embarrassed?
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Have you exposed yourself to any sexually explicit material this week?
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Did you fantasize about being with another woman besides your wife?
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Have you been with a woman anywhere?
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: That might be seen as compromising?
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Did you take matters into your own hands that your wife is responsible for?
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: What challenges or struggles are weighing on your mind?
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Have you looked at a person longer than necessary, inciting lustful emotions?
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: What precautions have you taken to deter lustful actions and prevent them from continuing?
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: And then, finally, did you just lie to me concerning any of your answers to these questions so strong?
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just puts things into perspective, but we've been designed to go through life with people.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Do it.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: So we've been heading this direction to get to the pinnacle of what we want to say, and that is get easy's book I was about to make a joke about that.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Fight like a man Fight like a man.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: Bold biblical battle plan for personal purity.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's doing very, very well.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: People are really appreciating it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: It's a wonderful book.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can buy it at livingwaterscom or at Amazon.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: We highly suggest going out and buying it.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Easy would fire us all, except for you, ray, because you can't if we didn't mention that.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: So, yes, it is a great book, very practical, and it applies the gospel in areas that you desperately need in your life, if this is something you're struggling with Get the audio version.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Let's do it on the way to work.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: But then they have to hear Easy.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just stick with the book, guys.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: All right, so closing, I want to wrap it up here, but before we do, mark, at the very first meeting that we had in the new year, we were praying, as we always do, and you prayed for all of the pastors who have not yet but are going to fall.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: That will be exposed.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: That will be exposed.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: That's the words that you used.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: And man, it was a chilling prayer, a sobering prayer, and I know your heart.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: I know you've known people that have fallen personally.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: I know guys that you looked up to have fallen.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: There's a pastor listening right now, someone in leadership that has unconfessed sin and he's worried.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: But if I talk about it I'll get disqualified.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: I won't be the man people think I will.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: I'll ruin the.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: You know I'll be hypocrite and all the guys and women and whatever that I've discipled.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: What do you say to that guy?
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Scripture James 5, 16,.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed, that there is a healing that comes through confession, not through self-covering up.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get through this on my own.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: The Scripture is still true If we confess our sins.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: But here in James 5, it speaks very specifically about confessing your sins to one another, that there is a healing that awaits you through confession to another individual.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Thomas Watson said repentance is the vomit of the soul, or AEW Pink.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: He said he who covers his sins seeks to deceive God and man, but he only deceives himself.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: So confession leads to repentance, which leads to freedom.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: You're in bondage and you don't even realize it.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: He who the Son has set free is free.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: Indeed, the truth will set you free, but, as Thomas Watts said, that doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable when it sets you free.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It's a rough journey, absolutely.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: We're not discarding that, but there is freedom that awaits you.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: It's better to become free now and to realize that this is the path which God wants you to take than to look back and say I never took the path that God wanted me to take right.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: So, augustine, he said, the confession of evil works is the first beginning of good works.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: So you want to walk in the work which God prepared beforehand.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: That first work is confession.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Confess it, don't negate it.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Man, I think you know I would just close with saying to that person too you know so many of them will be like but ministry, you know I'll ruin my ministry.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Whatever man, do not put yourself on the altar of your ministry.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: God has already put his son on the altar for your soul and he cares more deeply about your salvation and sanctification than what he's doing through you.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: You are not that important to God's work.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: God can do it without you, but also maybe God still wants to do it with you.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: He wants you to repent, he wants you to be healed and he wants you to do that in community.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys, so much for listening.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: Ray.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: No, ted, did I have a facial expression that I was going to say something?
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: It looked like you wanted to take a nap actually which tells me that we are done here.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for listening Again.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: You can get Easy's book Fight Like a man.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: You can find that on Amazon or livingwaterscom.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: Please tell him that we told you to buy it when he wasn't listening, so that he'll keep us all employed, except for Ray, of course.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for listening to the Living Waters podcast, where it's clear that we know what we're doing.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: Easy doesn't.