Latest / What’s Up, Wake / Exploring Paranormal Mysteries with The Ghost Guild | Featuring Nelson Nauss
Transcript
- 31 - What's Up, Wake - Ghosts === Melissa: [00:00:00] If there's something strange in your neighborhood, who are you gonna call? For me, it's the Ghost Guild. Since 2017, the Ghost Guild Group of volunteer detectives have studied locations with historical significance, conducting science-based investigations of unexplained paranormal activity for yet to be solved mysteries. Today, I'm your ghosts with the [00:01:00] mostest here to conjure up some tales of local haunts with the Ghost Guild executive director and co-founder Nelson Noss Nelson, thank you for coming to lift our Spirits today. Nelson Nauss: Yeah, thanks for having me. Melissa: This is one episode that I feel like could be a double episode because I do have a lot of questions and I find what you guys at the Go Guild. What you guys do. Fascinating. So I'm gonna try to fit in as much as possible. I might have to have you back next October. We'll see. Nelson Nauss: Gladly. Melissa: Okay. Can you start by telling us what the Ghost Guild is and how you came to be co-founder of it? Nelson Nauss: So we are a registered nonprofit organization. Uh, we focus on education and, uh, investigation of, of paranormal activity. We also try to focus in on the historic preservation of locations mm-hmm. As well. So our approach is more to partner with historical societies at locations that have alleged [00:02:00] activity. So we get to investigate those locations, look into those reports and then. Share that, share those details along with historical information to, uh, an audience that they would not necessarily engage with. Uh, so it kind of open the door to a, a different set of audience that don't necessarily realize that history is fascinating mm-hmm. Until you start mixing it with lore mysteries. Yes. So that's where we kind of come in to help with those organizations. We definitely take more of a scientific approach. Mm-hmm. In, in doing our work, we like to start by posting a public survey. We also have that survey sent to staff members, people that have volunteered at those locations, people that have visited there and tried to collect. Any experience that people have had that they were not able to explain. And what's fascinating about doing that is that [00:03:00] you then get to kind of put all of those experiences together from people that submitted this without even knowing each other and see what the similarities are. And uh, most of the time there are, there are some that just stand out, that like multiple people have experienced the exact same thing. Wow. And that's what we like to start with. Mm-hmm. When we go to the location is those that have had the most. Reports. Melissa: The mission of the Ghost Guild is to skeptically investigate reports of unexplained activity in historically significant locations, and attempt to establish a connection between science, historical facts, and human experiences. All of that to say that you guys approach your investigations with skepticism. It's not like you're going into a place automatically believing that it's haunted or it has ghost activities or paranormal activity. In fact, to me, it seems like you're trying to disprove the [00:04:00] activity or what people are assuming is going on there. So is that the case and why? Why do you go in. And, and do your investigations in that way, instead of assuming that the people are correct, there's ghosts in the building, you're really going in and saying, I'm gonna prove that it's something else. Nelson Nauss: I wouldn't exactly say that we're going into disprove. We're not going in to do one or the other. Mm-hmm. Particularly. Mm-hmm. 'cause if you're going in with an agenda and like with a bias of, oh, this is haunted, or this is not haunted, you're gonna leave with, you will have collected what you need to prove what you're thinking. Mm-hmm. So we need to go in with a clear mind. We have the information people have submitted. We are trying to see when we're there, can we explain those and another way of it being paranormal. Um, and maybe can we also experience those exact same things that people have reported? Melissa: In terms of like a, a ghost [00:05:00] hunter, a, a stereotypical ghost hunter, I, I would think that you guys fall more in the Velma from Scooby-Doo category. You're going in with a science mind. Correct. And, and trying to understand what's going on versus, you know, Ghostbusters going in, assuming that it's definitely a ghost, is what it sounds like to me. Yeah. Nelson Nauss: I mean, if you look, I'm Melissa: oversimplifying it with, with childlike terms, which I like to do. Nelson Nauss: I always found the term ghost hunter to be interesting. I, I, I personally don't like that term, I mean, for us, because that's not what I feel that we do. We don't come home with trophies to put on the wall. Mm-hmm. Um, we really go in with a list of, of reports and we try to investigate. Those reports, see if we experience them and if we have our own experiences, sometimes we add to the list of reports 'cause we had things happen that Melissa: Okay. Nelson Nauss: Were not necessarily, uh, documentation mentioned by the other people. Melissa: Correct. Okay. So what kind of tools, is it even called tools do you use when you [00:06:00] go to a site? Nelson Nauss: Yeah, there are a lot of. Gadgets that gadget Yout. That's a better word. Melissa: Yes. Nelson Nauss: If you watch the TV shows mm-hmm. You will see them use a whole bunch of gadgets and there's nothing wrong with them. Mm-hmm. I mean, some of them serve their purpose. The problem I think, with this particular field is that there are a lot of people that. You know, they, they see these tools being gadgets, being sold as ghost hunting devices don't really understand how they function. They're really black box devices, especially the ones that use like a data bank of words and just spew out words randomly. Mm. You have no idea how that was developed. How, what's the code behind that? And then if a word comes out. Oh, look, it matches what I was looking for. It's a ghost talking to me. Melissa: Okay. Nelson Nauss: Uh, so it's really important to understand how these devices work, but there, there are certainly a lot of different tools out there. And we tried to stick with, or we tried to select the devices that we use based on [00:07:00] what those reports were. So if there's a report of footsteps, as an example. We have geophones that we can put out, and then we try to see can we also hear those footsteps? And when we hear those, do the geophones go off, which a geophone is a seismic sensor. It's like a detect earthquakes or movement. Oh, okay. And so if you hear those footsteps and then you actually also see the geophone go off, then there's. Melissa: Something is legitimately going on. Well, Nelson Nauss: yeah, there's, there's actual, it's not just a sound. Mm-hmm. There's something to match physically. Mm-hmm. In terms of, of movement. And we heavily use recorders and video, uh, video devices, not necessarily to capture any. What they call evidence. Uh, we don't call it that, but that's what they typically call it. Mm-hmm. Um, it, it's mostly so we have something to look back on. So if we're reviewing data and we record a specific sound that could then look at the video to make sure there was no one there at that particular [00:08:00] point in time. Melissa: , But a lot of times it sounds to me like it can be explained in a, in, in a different way. I've always found it to be curious to me that ghosts are generally, from a long time ago. So we're talking centuries Old Ghost. We're not talking about somebody that died in 1992 and now they're a ghost. We're, we're generally talking about very old stories, so to me, I'm picturing that you guys are going into, say, an old Victorian house in downtown Raleigh that has a lot of natural creeks and sounds and, and things going on. Maybe you're gonna be able to explain this is not a ghost, this is actually the settling of the house in some way. Is that, is, does this make any sense to you? What I'm trying to say? That it, it, it really is tied into old. Structures, not necessarily a story that happened in [00:09:00] the, in the house Correct. Or the building. Nelson Nauss: And that's actually one of the things I think is so important to be able to visit a location more than once. You really need to get a sense for the house, whatever, it's normal noises. Mm-hmm. You know, the settling, like you mentioned. Yeah. Versus anything that might be long or like a Melissa: windy night or, you know, different weather. Nelson Nauss: Correct. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Nelson Nauss: Yeah, so that's one of the things I love about our partnership with the City of Raleigh or a Morde Key Historic Park specifically because we get to investigate Morde Key so many times and we've really gotten a feel for that particular location and what its normal natural sounds are versus anything that might be abnormal. Melissa: Let's talk about Morde key. Do you think that in your experience you have more evidence, like you were saying. Of something going on there than anywhere else in the triangle or, or. Is, is there a place that you can talk about that you've seen more going on, more activity? Nelson Nauss: Well, at this point we've investigated [00:10:00] Morde Key Historic Park about 21 times. Oh. So it is the one that we've investigated the most. Mm-hmm. Second to that maybe would be theater in the park. Melissa: Yes. Nelson Nauss: Morde Key is definitely one of those places that, you can never tell when you go because you walk in, you. You, you end up leaving that night and you feel like you've gotten absolutely nothing. Mm-hmm. And the next time we go, it's the complete opposite. Okay. It's just we have things happening in every single building we go in. Uh, so you never know. So what is your Melissa: summary of Morde key? What, what do you take away after being there? So many times Nelson Nauss: People believe there are different types of hauntings. So there's intelligent hauntings, there's more of a residual type haunting, which you just happened to be at the right place at the right time and get to experience something replaying from a while ago, something recorded in time, so to speak. Uh, I've always felt that. What we've encountered at Morkey was more residual in nature. We just happened to be at the right place, right [00:11:00] time, and when we get to hear it or see it, or so forth. However, I had an experience. LA two years ago at Morde Key. That kind of has me questioning that. Melissa: Okay. Nelson Nauss: It is probably the most significant experience I had at Morde Key, and that's when I was I could tell you the story of, please do. Um, I was actually alone in the house. I was up on the second floor in the room where, um, Mary Willis Morde Turk, who was believed to be one of the spirits that haunts mm-hmm. Uh, Morde Key house. And I was just conversing trying to see if I could have a conversation with her. And I was at that particular point in time, was talking about the painting that's over the fireplace and it's childhood painting of her husband. Who had her admitted at Dorothy Dix. That's when in the room across the hall, one of, um, we use these EDI [00:12:00] meters, they're environmental recorders, so they capture pressure, humidity electromagnetic fields and a bunch of different environment variables, and they record those and it started going off. So I was like, well, let me go see what's going on there. And I walked down the hallway and as I crossed the hallway, uh, it's kind of a T-shaped just to kind of help try to provide a visual, it's a t-shaped home like this. Mm-hmm. So I was walking down the hallway into this other room, and as I looked down the T into Ellen's room, I. I, I did a double take. Um, I, because I walked, I, I turned my head, saw it continued, then stopped. It's like, what did I just see? And I backed up and I looked back down again. At that point, it was this. Shape of a, a human, a shadow. Mm-hmm. Pitch black, blocking the light. 'cause it was partially in front of the window. And as soon as I backed up and I looked and I saw it was still there, [00:13:00] that's when it went and kind of went off to the right mm-hmm. Where I couldn't see it anymore. So I immediately went down the hallway to see who's that, who's in here? I'm alone in here. Mm-hmm. There was nobody there. So I've been scratching my head on this one, uh, for a long time. I have never seen something like that at Morde Key. Uh, I didn't feel threatened in any way. Mm-hmm. If anything, I felt like, yeah, I was Melissa: wondering if you packed your stuff up and left immediately. Nelson Nauss: No, no. This is the stuff we want. Right. And tried to explain those, but, um, I've still not explained that particular. There. There's been ideas. We've, we've gone through several hypotheses and experiments thinking maybe it was a car that the light went into went into the, the room and that my shadow was being reflected. Okay. Um, we tried that. No success. My head was always up above the doorway, was not in the room and blocking the window. And we tried others. Um, there's these. Guide [00:14:00] posts with rope for visitors so they know where they go and they just happen to have like a round top on them. So we thought maybe there could have been like coming in from another room mm-hmm. That hid that post and that. Round would've looked like the head. Head. Yeah. We were able to recreate something similar, but there was no way the light would've been able to get into the room or the angle needed for that to happen. Mm-hmm. So we're still trying to explain it, but still that's one of my favorite. I think you touched a Melissa: nerve. You, you mentioned her husband and, uh, and you definitely touched her nerve in some, in some way is what, possibly what it sounds like, Nelson Nauss: but the fact that it seemed. For lack of a better word, engaged with me because as I backed up and looked it al it was aware of my presence. Uhhuh for it to kind of, and leave, laugh and leave. Yeah. So that kind of goes against my initial thought that everything was mostly residual might be just a combination of, Melissa: wow, [00:15:00] [00:16:00] when, when I think of ghost stories, especially with southern cities, Raleigh is not. It's not one that comes to the top of my mind for hearing the, the traditional ghost stories, I have heard a lot over the years, different stories that are tied to different buildings and locations, particularly in, in the Raleigh, downtown Raleigh area. Can you talk to us a little about, about Briggs Hardware store and the, the history of that and whatever ghost or paranormal activity has been talked about there? Nelson Nauss: Yeah. There's a lot of stories surrounding that particular building. Mm-hmm. Uh, it was, uh, deep steep first and one of the tallest, uh, skyscrapers in the city of Raleigh at the time. And. Most of the ghost tours, if you take them in Raleigh, will actually have you walk in front of what is now the core museum. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Uh, Nelson Nauss: and tell you some [00:17:00] fascinating tales about what's happened there. And quite a few of them have already been explained as not, it's not being real. There's no, for example, they'll tell you that there's a child that. Tumbled down the, you, you see this long staircase. I mean, there's almost like no landings. It's just straight stairs all the way up. Mm-hmm. Um, falling down, that would be awful. But other stories that allegedly a child had fallen and, and. Passed away. Uh, there's no record of that. I don't think that that's ever happened. Now there's another fascinating story of the actual hardware store, um, which I'm still trying to find more information on. Uh, but allegedly there was someone that went into, uh, the store and asked to see a gun. Asked to see some bullets and ended up proceeded to load the gun and asked the attendant for something else when he turned around. This man had, having [00:18:00] loaded the gun decided to take his own life. The gun right there. Melissa: I've actually heard this story. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nelson Nauss: So right there in, in the, the hardware store. So, yeah, we're, um, so that's one of the stories that we've heard there. So Melissa: is he s supposedly a, a ghost at the hardware store? That's what man, that people speculate. Nelson Nauss: Okay. Um, it would, I mean, if you tie hauntings with deaf mm-hmm. That would certainly. Makes sense as a possibility. Mm-hmm. Uh, so that's why, uh, we are actually, we've been talking with the core museum. Uh, we have a survey out now that's active for folks have been there or if they've experienced anything while there, I encourage you all to go to, um, our Facebook page or website and fill out the survey. 'cause we are collecting that information in hopes of actually looking into those reports. When we. Go and investigate that particular location Melissa: at the Briggs Hardware. Yes. Building. Okay. And I do encourage all of our listeners to go to the [00:19:00] Core museum. It is really a cool place. Yeah. Yeah. I've been there over Halloween time a couple years ago and did a tour and it's, it's really fascinating, not just with, you know, the spooky stories, but with the history of, of Raleigh as well. It is a very beautiful old building. Yeah. Nelson Nauss: And I love that mural they have. Mm-hmm. Or the old map of city of Raleigh. Yes. But what's challenging with that location is that it is on a very noisy street with bars. Oh yeah. And so any audio we record. Pretty much just have to be thrown out. We had a similar, a little bit Melissa: tainted. Yeah, yeah, Nelson Nauss: we did similar when we did Moore Square, there's the Norwood house that we investigated there. And all night we would hear the buses, the people talking. Oh. So we just have to throw all of that out. Melissa: Yeah. You don't think about things like that, but that's very true. If, if, if the surrounding area is not totally quiet, then it's kind of ruined. Nelson Nauss: Yeah. Melissa: Okay. I mean, we've Nelson Nauss: got ways around that We use, [00:20:00] um, recorders that we put on the outside of the building. Mm-hmm. And um, that way if we hear anything inside, we can cross check the recorders on the outside to see did it come from outside or was it on the inside? So that's helped out a lot. Even at Morde Key. 'cause it is a park. People walk their dogs at night in the park. Melissa: It seems to me that most ghost stories are tied to some sort of traumatic death or death at the time when deep, heavy emotions are are happening for the person. Do you find that you get more questions about. That type of, of place or situation. And that's, that's why peop things are tied like the Briggs hardware death that happened with the man and the gun. Do you think that that's why the lures are created in the first place and people just assume it's haunted? Nelson Nauss: Yeah, I think some people kind of create that in their minds. Mm-hmm. 'cause it would make Melissa: a good campfire story essentially. Um, Nelson Nauss: but I mean, there's [00:21:00] also, and similar to that, there's also why are historical homes haunted and not. You know, more recent homes or, yeah. And I don't even necessarily think that that's necessarily the case, but I've got, I do, I have a hypothesis as to why historical homes tend to have more ghost related stories. Mm-hmm. And to me is because homes are, are very different back then as they are now. They were part of you, you, I mean, you. Built these homes, you know, there was sweat and tears. Mm-hmm. And building these locations, you were attached to these locations. There was an emotional attachment. And now homes are commodities. People just buy and move around. Just this, just no connection anymore. You don't live there Melissa: for like the rest of your life type of thing. Nelson Nauss: It's not as passed down from, from, you know, generation to generation. So I think there was more of a connection and perhaps maybe that's why there's more of those types of connections and Yeah. The emotional connection. Yeah. Melissa: Ah, very true. Okay. I didn't think about that. [00:22:00] In recent years, there's been an uptick in true crime junkies. I'm wondering if that has drawn more people to be interested in what you guys are doing and if you ever let anybody tag along on your research trips. Nelson Nauss: It varies. So I don't know if it's. I, I've definitely seen an increase in people that are, are interested. I don't know if it's necessarily tied to true crime. Mm-hmm. Um, but in regards to, we, we get a lot of requests, people contacting us, Hey, I wanna join you. I wanna join you. Mm-hmm. Um, so first and foremost, we, we have volunteer positions open so people Oh, okay. Can, can go in and, and look at what we have mm-hmm. Uh, available to join our organization. But we do also try to provide opportunities for the public to join on investigations so they can kind of experience it firsthand and, and see how it is different than what you see on [00:23:00] tv. But we've done some locations like the Battleship in Wilmington, where we will sell tickets. Uh, it is one way that we fund our nonprofit operation by doing at least one of those a year. But yeah, so those do become available. We post them on social media and so forth. Our mailing list receives first dibs on, on getting those. They typically sell out very quick. 'cause we don't, I would think so. Yeah. We don't, we don't want a group of 50. We keep it. Yeah. Very small again, ' Melissa: cause it would get too loud, too crowded for these spaces that you're going in. Nelson Nauss: Yeah. You, you'd contaminate. Melissa: Mm-hmm. I mean, Nelson Nauss: anything you record, you just have to assume it was someone in the group. 'cause it was such a large group. So Melissa: what have you found at the battleship? In Wilmington, um, Nelson Nauss: probably one of my favorite clips. Melissa: Oh, tell us about that. Nelson Nauss: And it was when we were in the Sik Bay so the Sik Bay is this, basically this room that has just all these. Bed Springs where they [00:24:00] put mattresses mm-hmm. In, but all the mattresses are gone. So it's just the outline of the bed springs that are primarily all folded up. And, um, the, there were two team members in that particular area at the time, and we knew where everyone else was. It was no one close to them. And you hear what sounds like, like someone hitting metal. Mm-hmm. And so they're like, oh, sorry. We heard that Can can you do that again? And then they heard it again, but it was more pronounced that time. Like, oh, they're like, Hey, nice. Like where, where are you? Like trying to figure out where the sound was coming from And that's when you hear the full force hit. On these be springs and you even hear the be springs moving back and forth. Now being, now listen, that Melissa: is when you would also hear me running out of that room, Nelson Nauss: but Well, what I love about that clip though is that there was, I mean that was physical. Melissa: Mm-hmm. I mean, Nelson Nauss: you. [00:25:00] There was impact there. Melissa: And again, with that, that tool that you were talking about, that you can feel that it is actual movement happening, not just sound. Nelson Nauss: Yeah. Well, so we've been deploying that tool in that area. Okay. Uh, ever since we've not been able to have it happen again. Oh, you haven't? Oh. But every time we go to the battle station, like you never Melissa: have your phone out and ready Nelson Nauss: Yeah. Melissa: To get something on video. Yeah. Yeah. Nelson Nauss: So, but every time we've been back, we've deployed a majority of our cameras in that area. Mm-hmm. Just to see like if it happens again. Can, can we explain what, what it was? Mm-hmm. We went through, again, a bunch of different thoughts on hypotheses and, and experiments that we did. I mean, there is the fact that it gets caught cold and, and hot and the temperature changes, uh, between night and day thought. Maybe the metal would've contracted and maybe let go. So someone from the tour maybe laid down on one of these beds and pinched the metal. Springs and then we just happened to be there when it released, but it released three times. Yeah. That kind of thing on Melissa: command. Nelson Nauss: [00:26:00] Yeah. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Nelson Nauss: So, I mean, again, those are just kind of how we iterate through trying to explain those things. We don't necessarily find explanations every time, so perhaps it is paranormal. We haven't made that assumption that, that decision yet. But, um, we're still trying to explain it every time we go. We've tried ice packs, we've tried a, a bunch of different things. Melissa: Yeah. I do love the idea that you guys go in and with, with a neutral mind and not any assumptions for or against the fact that it might, you know, have a cool paranormal story attached to it. And you're really trying to use science to, to get the answers. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of learning involved as well. Tell everybody where we can learn more about the ghost skilled. Including any special investigations that you have coming up. Nelson Nauss: We do have some pretty exciting news coming soon. Okay. I was hoping I could share it today, but Melissa: Oh, go ahead Nelson. [00:27:00] You can, can finalize itt do it. We like breaking news. Nelson Nauss: So we do have that. But um, yeah. Best way is through our social media channels. We have an Instagram, we have Facebook we have websites. So we typically post and we, we actually post a lot of content on there. Mm-hmm. Uh, his historical content, um, you know, co. There's just a, all this stuff out there. Good, good. Um, but we do have, since it is spooky season mm-hmm. Um, our busiest time of the year, we have, uh, several presentations, uh, that are coming up. We have one presentation October 2nd, and that's seven. Uh, and it's unveiling the unseen, and that takes place at the Weymouth Center for the Arts and Humanities and Southern Pines. Uh, that's gonna have the twist on the literary, uh, aspect of paranormal. Some of, uh, like cursed books and, um. Just, uh, famous paranormal authors and, and so forth, as well as sharing some of our, uh, investigation data from multiple investigations. We've got another [00:28:00] one on October 4th at 7:00 PM a ghost in the glass distilled and spilled, uh, that's at Mystic Farm in Distillery. I had a really good turnout there last year. Mm-hmm. We're hoping for the same people. Were engaged. We had fun. We laughed for two hours. It was an awesome presentation, so we encourage everyone to go to that. We do have a virtual presentation as well with Wake County Public Libraries, and that's alluring destinations check into the unexplained. So it's kind of a follow up from last year's presentation. Uh, but this time we're focusing on sharing lore and stories. From places that people can actually book and go and stay. Okay. So hotels. Mm-hmm. And so forth. And then last but not least, we are returning again with haunted morkey as we do every year. Uh, last year we changed the format. Instead of just doing a presentation in the classroom, we actually invited folks to walk through the park with us. Oh, neat. So we did tours and we rotated every 30 minutes and [00:29:00] the tours about an hour. But it will bring you through Andrew Johnson's birthplace. Mm-hmm. Uh, St. Mark's Chapel, and then the Morta Key House. So what's great is that we share the data we've collected. At those locations. So you will be at the actual place mm-hmm. Where we recorded that data. And you'll get to listen or see, uh, that, that data and we'll explain to you if we've been able to explain it or if it's still in the works. Okay. And that's a free tour. You, we will have to Oh, nice. Register for it. We have our first half of the tickets on October 1st, and the other half will be available the day of the event at the um, visitor center at Morkey. Melissa: Perfect. I've gotta say, this is the only time I'd like to boo a guest at the end of a discussion. But thank you so much for coming and sharing ghost stories with us today. Nelson Nauss: Oh, pleasure. Do it anytime, not just, you know, spooky season. Yeah, I'm happy. I do love Melissa: spooky season. Thank you, Nelson. Nelson Nauss: Thank you. [00:30:00]