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How to Land on a Government Watch List · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
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Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
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Speaker 1: the Chuck Show. I'm Josh with me always of course
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Speaker 1: this Chuck Charles w Chucker's Bryant. That's weird. It sounded
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Speaker 1: the Chuck Show. It sounds like you said the Chuck Show.
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Speaker 1: You should be Chuck Show. Did you hear at that time?
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Speaker 1: I did, How you do? Chuck? Get out of here?
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Speaker 1: You fire? I'm waiting for this day for that would
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Speaker 1: be awful and such like I don't even want to
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Speaker 1: say relief. That sounds awful, but you know how it is.
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Speaker 1: It would be devastating and also like, ah, my brain
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Speaker 1: can relax, and then the next day I'd be all
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Speaker 1: upset again. I know what you're talking about. What I'm saying.
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Speaker 1: I used to have an alternative weekly newspaper, and whenever
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Speaker 1: we were up on deadline, deadline, deadline, deadline, and we'd
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Speaker 1: missed the deadline, there was a sense of abject failure
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Speaker 1: that was encapsulated by the greatest sense of relief you
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Speaker 1: ever experienced. I don't want to I know exactly what
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Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't think I feel relieved here
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Speaker 1: because we got this. We got this all right, Yes,
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Speaker 1: say reassure me again, you got it good? Um, Chuck Josh. Okay,
1:26
Speaker 1: we should probably chill out a little bit because what
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Speaker 1: we're about to talk about is uh, to some a
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Speaker 1: a necessary evil. To others, it's brain dead national security
1:40
Speaker 1: that we should have been doing since seventeen seven. Uh,
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Speaker 1: And to others, it's an egregious affront to civil liberties
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Speaker 1: of citizens. Yeah, but you know what I found. I
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Speaker 1: did some research on the a c l You. I
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Speaker 1: haven't found anyone that says like we shouldn't have a
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Speaker 1: watch list. No, but it's just like, hey, if you're
2:01
Speaker 1: gonna have a watch list, you're gonna you're gonna do
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Speaker 1: it better than this. Yes, from the a c l
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Speaker 1: U as well. Um, And I think everybody just assumed
2:09
Speaker 1: I was talking about the A c l U and
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Speaker 1: I said that some people find it to civil liberties. Um.
2:17
Speaker 1: I was when we were researching this, like I had
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Speaker 1: this um little tick in the back of my head,
2:24
Speaker 1: right and I was burning and saying like there was
2:27
Speaker 1: something about nine eleven and I was like, oh, yeah,
2:30
Speaker 1: there were all these different warnings, all these different agencies
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Speaker 1: had information about al Qaeda. Apparently Bush was briefed before,
2:41
Speaker 1: like the month before in the New York Times reported
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Speaker 1: back in two thousand four, Um, and it Alkada was
2:47
Speaker 1: being watched. There. We were aware that there was a
2:50
Speaker 1: hijacking plot, and they are all of these people, most
2:54
Speaker 1: of them at least were on watch lists. But the
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Speaker 1: problem was is all of these agencies were in the
3:00
Speaker 1: midst of like some serious turf wars, and no one
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Speaker 1: was talking to one another, No agency was sharing this
3:06
Speaker 1: information with one another, which kind of part of the
3:09
Speaker 1: course from what I understand. Yeah, but I think that
3:12
Speaker 1: changed in large part after nine eleven. Right, if it
3:18
Speaker 1: didn't change in spirit, at the very least it changed
3:22
Speaker 1: in practice on paper because all those different lists after
3:26
Speaker 1: nine eleven happened were consolidated pretty quickly. After nine eleven happened. Um.
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Speaker 1: I think May of two thousand three, Bush signed something
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Speaker 1: called Homeland Security Presidential Directive six, and the first one,
3:41
Speaker 1: signed in two thousand one, I believe, established Homeland Security
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Speaker 1: as an agency. Two years later he signed six basically
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Speaker 1: saying have you read it, uh, two, three, four and
3:54
Speaker 1: five or six? Six, is there, two, four and five,
3:58
Speaker 1: there's a there's one. It loses focused towards the end.
4:01
Speaker 1: The last one was signed on bushes last day in office,
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Speaker 1: and uh, it basically says all those international treaties we
4:08
Speaker 1: signed that say the Arctic and the Antarctic are belonged
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Speaker 1: to everybody. No one can claim on we were invoked
4:14
Speaker 1: a part about the Arctic. We decided that the US
4:17
Speaker 1: is quote an Arctic nation and therefore it has to
4:20
Speaker 1: protect its Arctic interests, specifically natural resources as a matter
4:24
Speaker 1: of national security. Yeah, so it kind of lost focused
4:28
Speaker 1: for the end. But early on with with the Presidential
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Speaker 1: Directive six that said we need to take all of
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Speaker 1: these watch lists and create a central watch list, and
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Speaker 1: we need to actually administer it or administrate it properly.
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Speaker 1: And that created chuck, the consolidated a terrorist watch list.
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Speaker 1: Because it's consolidated, it makes a lot of So that's
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Speaker 1: the government list that everyone is long joked about. There
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Speaker 1: were lists before were but the one that everybody thought
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Speaker 1: about prior to two thousand one or two thousand three,
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Speaker 1: um didn't bear any resemblance to this one. This is
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Speaker 1: the list. Anyone who's ever been even remotely suspected of
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Speaker 1: being a terrorist. What's the language, um, engaging in terrorist activities? Right, Uh,
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Speaker 1: suspected to have engaged in conduct constituting in preparation for
5:23
Speaker 1: an aid of or related to terrorism. Yes, And apparently
5:27
Speaker 1: associating with a known terrorists isn't enough to get you
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Speaker 1: on that list. Yeah, because after September eleven, there were
5:35
Speaker 1: not many guidelines. It was just sort of let's just
5:37
Speaker 1: put a bunch of names on the list. I mean,
5:39
Speaker 1: not that will annially obviously, but um, they realized they
5:43
Speaker 1: needed to refine it over the years, and I think
5:45
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine was the last major revision, seventy
5:50
Speaker 1: two page memorandum. Yeah, in February o nine. That's that
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Speaker 1: clarified what the minimum substantive derogatory criteria was. What is Well,
6:00
Speaker 1: it's a seventy two page or mirandum, but associating with
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Speaker 1: an known terrorist, suspected terrorists is not enough. There had
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Speaker 1: to be evidence of that you actually supported terrorism, and
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Speaker 1: it generally requires more than a single single source, which
6:15
Speaker 1: is good. Really Yeah, like, hey, this one guy said
6:19
Speaker 1: you were so boom, you're on the list. So they
6:22
Speaker 1: refined it some over the year prior to two thousand nine.
6:26
Speaker 1: I think it was a little more, a little easier
6:29
Speaker 1: to get on there. And that's when a lot of
6:31
Speaker 1: the press um was generated about this. A lot of
6:35
Speaker 1: the media was up in arms or reporting about people
6:38
Speaker 1: being up in arms. There are tons of stories and
6:40
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah. Um, And you can kind of tell
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Speaker 1: like how open it was, um by just the sheer numbers.
6:47
Speaker 1: Right in two thousand three, I think the thing opened
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Speaker 1: up for business, um with thousand people, three names. Yeah,
6:57
Speaker 1: that was a no. Six two thousand six. Yeah, Now
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Speaker 1: there's over a million supposedly. See, that number is highly disputed.
7:05
Speaker 1: So the a c l U says a million or more. Um.
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Speaker 1: A lot of people reported that, but that's just the
7:10
Speaker 1: a c l USE estimate. The T s A says
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Speaker 1: it's less than four hundred thousand. And they threw in
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Speaker 1: that of those people are foreign nationals and and even
7:24
Speaker 1: in the country even they say, see I I can
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Speaker 1: see them Like. That struck me as the same as
7:30
Speaker 1: saying like one of your buddies being like I'm ninety
7:32
Speaker 1: nine nine nine percent positive. You know, I wonder how
7:37
Speaker 1: how accurate that is. Yeah, it's hard to get stats
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Speaker 1: on this stuff because a lot of it is kept
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Speaker 1: under wraps for a good reason, including the criteria. Um
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Speaker 1: who's on there? And yeah, like you said, for good reason,
7:48
Speaker 1: there is. It's a very it's Orwellian circular logic. And
7:54
Speaker 1: of course I think everyone who has play on this
7:56
Speaker 1: knew that the word Orwellian was going to come up
7:58
Speaker 1: at least once, knowing us right. But um, they are
8:02
Speaker 1: saying that they can't release information on this list because
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Speaker 1: then you know how to beat the list. And I'm
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Speaker 1: a defender of civil liberties and I will even admit
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Speaker 1: that this is a tough situation because you can't just
8:16
Speaker 1: do everything behind closed doors, but you also can't open
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Speaker 1: it wide open because then it kind of defeats the
8:22
Speaker 1: system in a lot of ways. So this is a
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Speaker 1: tough one. It is very tough when it comes to that, uh,
8:27
Speaker 1: that number of the names on there. Um, it's not
8:31
Speaker 1: necessarily individual people. That's different spellings of single name. Yeah,
8:36
Speaker 1: that's aliases of these people. So there could be a
8:40
Speaker 1: fraction of that number of actual people that are on
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Speaker 1: this list, But there's all these different spellings or whatever.
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Speaker 1: Countries are on the list, not like entire countries, well
8:52
Speaker 1: entire countries, but not saying your entire country is on
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Speaker 1: the list. It's just I think country from that country. Yeah,
8:59
Speaker 1: then you then you, I think the red flag is raised.
9:02
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, you're because Israel was on the list recently
9:06
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, that was a big mistake. Israel
9:08
Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the list obviously. So yeah, but that
9:12
Speaker 1: just happened I think within the past few months, is there, right,
9:15
Speaker 1: that would have made a great intro. Yeah, I like
9:17
Speaker 1: your intro. Yes, So with nominating, right, he said, Now,
9:21
Speaker 1: it takes more than one source to get you on there.
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Speaker 1: That's what they say. Apparently before that revision, UM, somebody
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Speaker 1: from the FBI, the n s A, the c i A,
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Speaker 1: the f d A, the SEC, pretty much any government
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Speaker 1: agency could say NASA, hey, yeah, hey, I think any
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Speaker 1: government agency, anybody from a government agency, UM could nominate you.
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Speaker 1: And you're nominated, right, yes, And that that means you're
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Speaker 1: put before or you physically are, but your name is
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Speaker 1: put before the Terrorist Review and Examination Unit and they'd
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Speaker 1: start checking things out and then pass you along to
10:01
Speaker 1: the Terrorist Screening Center and the watch list if you
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Speaker 1: are deemed by their criteria to be a threat. Right.
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Speaker 1: And the Terrorist Screening Center is a branch of the FBI,
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Speaker 1: and they're the ones who are responsible for um administering
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Speaker 1: this the watch list, right, um, and it's it's it's
10:21
Speaker 1: most closely associated with flying. It's a no fly list,
10:25
Speaker 1: is is what it's often called. Well, no, those are
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Speaker 1: two different lists, oh are they? Yeah, there's a no
10:30
Speaker 1: fly list, there's a selectee list, and then there's the
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Speaker 1: terrorism watch list. Okay, laying on me, Well, the no
10:35
Speaker 1: fly list only has like five thousand people on it. Okay,
10:38
Speaker 1: but it's it's different. Um, but if you're on the
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Speaker 1: no fly list, obviously you're also on the terrorism watch list,
10:43
Speaker 1: right But I as I understand it, if you're on
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Speaker 1: the terrorism watch list, you may pop up when you
10:48
Speaker 1: go through a t S A screening. Yeah. Yeah, so
10:51
Speaker 1: like if you're on this terrorism watch So if you're
10:53
Speaker 1: on a no fly list, like they they your name
10:55
Speaker 1: pops up and they just take you to prison essentially. Well,
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Speaker 1: they do a range of things from take you away
11:02
Speaker 1: to be investigated in first and never heard from again,
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Speaker 1: or the people have been arrested. Okay, so that's but
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Speaker 1: these are people who are probably like known terrorists or not. Okay,
11:15
Speaker 1: but on the no fly list, Yeah, both. That's what
11:18
Speaker 1: that's what created a lot of the problems. Is that
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Speaker 1: is that you know, like an eight year old boy
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Speaker 1: was on the no fly list and this lady researched
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Speaker 1: a Muslim woman from I can't remember where she's from,
11:30
Speaker 1: but she was a Stanford duct toil candidate. And you
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Speaker 1: can get placed on the no fly lists while you're
11:37
Speaker 1: while you're on vacation, and then you can't come back
11:39
Speaker 1: into the country. There are Army veterans stranded in Colombia
11:43
Speaker 1: and other countries that can't come back because their name
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Speaker 1: is erroneously on the no fly list. And it takes
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Speaker 1: a long time to get it off. I would imagine
11:52
Speaker 1: sixty seven days to get off the terrorist watch list.
11:56
Speaker 1: That's the average. But I don't know about that. I
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Speaker 1: bet it takes more than that. Okay, Um, so chuck,
12:03
Speaker 1: I guess with when you fly? Also, um, there's this
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Speaker 1: program called safe Flight that's administered by the Terrorists Screening
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Speaker 1: Center where every flight manifest is um checked against the lists.
12:19
Speaker 1: That's good, it is good. That's the first step, I
12:21
Speaker 1: gast um. But so the terrorist Screening centers there there
12:26
Speaker 1: in charge. So are they in charge of the select
12:29
Speaker 1: list and the no fly lists as well. It's all
12:31
Speaker 1: under Homeland Security. Okay, um, but this is FBI, right okay,
12:36
Speaker 1: so um, they they're maintaining these lists, but they're also
12:41
Speaker 1: tracking the people who are on the list, hopefully the
12:45
Speaker 1: right people. But if your name apparently is on the
12:49
Speaker 1: terrorist watch list, there is a screen in northern Virginia.
12:55
Speaker 1: No one knows where, well, no one can say where
12:57
Speaker 1: anyone who knows, and you are a red dot on
13:00
Speaker 1: that screen and you're tracked constantly apparently, Um, I don't
13:04
Speaker 1: know if the dot is read necessarily, but the color
13:06
Speaker 1: changes depending on the length of time it's been since
13:09
Speaker 1: you made contact or a law enforcement officer made contact
13:13
Speaker 1: with you, like since the last time you flew, last
13:16
Speaker 1: time you got pulled over for a ticket, the last
13:18
Speaker 1: time they came into your house, whatever, Um, the color changes.
13:22
Speaker 1: But there's someone who watches you, uh, when you get
13:26
Speaker 1: pulled over and you're on this list, Well, if you
13:29
Speaker 1: or I get pulled over, your name's run right if
13:32
Speaker 1: it gets if it pops up, then the law enforcement
13:36
Speaker 1: officers alerting the terrorist Screening Center. From what I read,
13:39
Speaker 1: most of the time, the terrorist Screening Center already knows
13:42
Speaker 1: you just got pulled over. Yeah, well that's anto and
13:48
Speaker 1: that's MPRS reporting too, And it was Dean and Temple
13:51
Speaker 1: Raston who actually went to the center, So it's not
13:54
Speaker 1: that's not like yeah, and I hope we don't come
13:57
Speaker 1: across the sea and like, oh they shouldn't do like
13:59
Speaker 1: police terrorists and things like that, because it's not the case.
14:01
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Although John Lewis, the name John
14:05
Speaker 1: Lewis was on the no fly list, John Lewis, he's uh.
14:07
Speaker 1: I think he's still a representative here, isn't he. Yeah, Okay,
14:10
Speaker 1: I think so. From from Georgia, from Atlanta. I believe
14:14
Speaker 1: he was a civil rights leader as well, and his
14:17
Speaker 1: name was on there. He kept getting hassled going through
14:20
Speaker 1: the airport. Um, and not because he was suspected of
14:25
Speaker 1: any kind of terrorist activity, but because his name matched
14:29
Speaker 1: one of the spellings of the name of somebody on
14:32
Speaker 1: the terrorist watch list, right, as did every other John Lewis.
14:35
Speaker 1: So right, So if you are, um, that's one good
14:39
Speaker 1: way to find out that your name is likely on
14:42
Speaker 1: the terrorist watch list is getting held up at the airport.
14:48
Speaker 1: John Lewis isn't the only one. Very Famously, there was
14:50
Speaker 1: a nun named Sister Glenn and McPhee right, And she
14:55
Speaker 1: apparently spent a lot of time getting interrogated. Um so
14:59
Speaker 1: much so the Council of Bishops called the White House
15:01
Speaker 1: and said, you gotta take her off. How much was
15:05
Speaker 1: she flying? Is what I wanted to know. I don't know,
15:06
Speaker 1: since she's hassled a lot. It's like, didn't I didn't
15:08
Speaker 1: know nuns like traveled that much. The sister of the
15:12
Speaker 1: Flying Cross of the Flying Nuneah uh. And as I mentioned,
15:15
Speaker 1: there's an eight year old famously in New York. And
15:18
Speaker 1: even though they came out and said there are no
15:20
Speaker 1: eight year olds on the list, it's a myth. There
15:22
Speaker 1: is an eight year old on the list. I don't
15:24
Speaker 1: know if he still is, but the parents said, now
15:26
Speaker 1: he's right here, come meet him. He's a boy scout.
15:29
Speaker 1: And the first time he was pulled aside and frist
15:31
Speaker 1: was when he was two wow, at an airport. Two
15:34
Speaker 1: years old on the terrorist watch list was first. Yeah,
15:37
Speaker 1: pretty pretty neat. So that's led to a lot of
15:39
Speaker 1: calls about UM reducing the watch list, making it uh
15:44
Speaker 1: more UM focused. Yeah uh. And apparently it sounds like
15:50
Speaker 1: Obama made those changes in two thousand nine, Right, what
15:55
Speaker 1: what was that? What happened there? Well, what you were
15:56
Speaker 1: talking about, like, it's the criteria's narrowed a lot more
15:59
Speaker 1: like it takes two sources to get you on the list.
16:02
Speaker 1: Just associating with somebody will keep you off the list.
16:06
Speaker 1: And then, Um, I wonder if redress is gotten any easier.
16:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, redresses the process of of like sort
16:13
Speaker 1: of applying to get off the list. And um, that's
16:17
Speaker 1: for the terrorism watch list. Apparently the no fly list,
16:20
Speaker 1: there's not much of a process going on there, and
16:23
Speaker 1: it's led to a lot of frustration from people like
16:26
Speaker 1: John Lewis. But yeah, now you apply and they I
16:31
Speaker 1: think you have to apply through it the agency. You
16:32
Speaker 1: can't just call the FBI or no, you can't call
16:35
Speaker 1: Homeland Security. You have to apply through the agency that
16:38
Speaker 1: gave you trouble, like the t s A or whoever it.
16:41
Speaker 1: And then they give you what's called a redress number.
16:44
Speaker 1: So when you book travel you you include that. Yeah,
16:48
Speaker 1: and it's like it's basically like I've been cleared. There's proof.
16:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not on any list. Then, um, so, Chuck,
16:56
Speaker 1: how do you get on this list? Aside from the
17:01
Speaker 1: obvious of being a terror a known terrorist, or a
17:03
Speaker 1: suspected terrorists, well appropriately suspected terrists. You could be, UM,
17:08
Speaker 1: a member of some sort of extremist organization, like even
17:11
Speaker 1: a hardcore like environmental organization might land you on the list,
17:14
Speaker 1: Like ELF, Yeah, what what are they? Earth Liberation Front? Yes,
17:20
Speaker 1: they like to burn down subdivisions, UM that are built
17:23
Speaker 1: over clear cut forests. Really, they like to burn down
17:27
Speaker 1: any subdivision where any trees or sacrificed or whatever, you know,
17:30
Speaker 1: the kind where they go in and cut all the
17:32
Speaker 1: trees down, build everything and then go replant like little saplings,
17:36
Speaker 1: those kind of subdivisions. ELF likes to go in before
17:39
Speaker 1: they're populated and burn them all to the ground, really,
17:42
Speaker 1: and then maybe leave a garage standing and spray paint
17:44
Speaker 1: e LF on it. That's that's domestic terrorism, really, I mean, yeah,
17:49
Speaker 1: this twelve the Order of the Twelve Monkeys, it is,
17:52
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah? So yeah, if you remember ELF, if
17:55
Speaker 1: you're UM, like a member of I would imagine any
18:01
Speaker 1: group that's been deemed the hate group or an extremist group,
18:05
Speaker 1: the domestic group, you might be on that list. You're
18:07
Speaker 1: probably on the list. But again, I think most people
18:09
Speaker 1: except that at the very least, Um, American citizens are
18:14
Speaker 1: in the minority on the government terrorist watch list. Right, yeah,
18:18
Speaker 1: which is what I was trying to say, Which is
18:20
Speaker 1: why it's easy for of the people or to say like, oh,
18:24
Speaker 1: what's the big deal? Wait till you're one of those
18:26
Speaker 1: first you know what I'm saying. Um, you found some
18:29
Speaker 1: other ways to though, some like more mundane ways. Yeah, sadly, Um,
18:33
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say sadly. I found it on Maxim. There's
18:38
Speaker 1: some good magazine. Yes, there was some. Um, I just
18:41
Speaker 1: did a Google search. It's not like I was like,
18:43
Speaker 1: what does Maxim have to say about this? Right? Um?
18:46
Speaker 1: There was There are four that I found that I
18:49
Speaker 1: thought were pretty good. One is, um, searching using Google
18:53
Speaker 1: well could get you flagged. We can be watched under
18:56
Speaker 1: the Patriot Act. Certain was searching for certain terms. I
18:59
Speaker 1: guess yeah, Okay, Um, we do a lot of research. Man,
19:02
Speaker 1: that's kind of scary to think about. Well I imagine that,
19:04
Speaker 1: Like if that's the case, then yeah, just just researching
19:08
Speaker 1: for this podcast. Um, last minute flights Apparently after a
19:13
Speaker 1: certain number of last minute flights, you will be flagged
19:16
Speaker 1: and even just doing your your immediate flight, like just
19:21
Speaker 1: the first time you do it, they're gonna pay extra
19:23
Speaker 1: attention to you because you're booking a last minute flight. Um.
19:27
Speaker 1: And apparently patterns the government loves patterns, and if you're
19:31
Speaker 1: operating within a normal pattern, you're likely going to be
19:35
Speaker 1: less scrutinized. Um. When you suddenly book of last minute flight,
19:40
Speaker 1: then they're gonna be like, wait, that's abnormal and we're
19:43
Speaker 1: gonna pay attention to you. Or if you pay with cash,
19:45
Speaker 1: that's abnormal, we're gonna pay attention to you. There there's
19:48
Speaker 1: certain patterns that the normal, average person does without even thinking, um,
19:54
Speaker 1: and when you act outside of that, then you're gonna
19:58
Speaker 1: invite more scrutiny. Um. Apparently email as well is also
20:04
Speaker 1: under the Patriot Act likes to be watched, so if
20:07
Speaker 1: you say something stupid on there, so basically you and
20:11
Speaker 1: I are on the list. Uh. They also the Homeland
20:16
Speaker 1: Security this week said that the terror watch list is
20:19
Speaker 1: exempt from the Privacy Act, which was brought about after Watergate.
20:23
Speaker 1: It basically permit citizens to obtain files about them with
20:28
Speaker 1: the intent of correcting it, which is what this would
20:31
Speaker 1: be all about. And they said, no, we're not under
20:33
Speaker 1: the Privacy Act, and that was that's the biggest problem
20:36
Speaker 1: with a c l u IS is put a system
20:40
Speaker 1: in place. First of all, like you said, they think
20:42
Speaker 1: it's bloated and thirty two thousand nine Justice Department Inspector
20:48
Speaker 1: General report, Yeah, I found that thirty of the nominations
20:52
Speaker 1: to the lists were outdated. So it's like it's counterproductive.
20:57
Speaker 1: Even it's not like they're just saying it's not fair,
20:59
Speaker 1: it's not in the job that it should be doing
21:01
Speaker 1: if it's bloated. But their whole point is just have
21:03
Speaker 1: a system in place, a transparent system in place where
21:07
Speaker 1: you can go. I mean, I guess redresses that for
21:10
Speaker 1: the terrorism watch list, but it doesn't sound like a
21:12
Speaker 1: very good system. Well, they also have a really big
21:15
Speaker 1: um bone of contention in that this is technically unconstitutional.
21:20
Speaker 1: There's something um against unlawful search and seizure, search and
21:24
Speaker 1: seizure without due process or at least probable cause. And
21:28
Speaker 1: if you're an eight year old boy scout, there's really
21:30
Speaker 1: no way of justifying the fact that you're being searched
21:34
Speaker 1: without probable cause. You know, just because some just because
21:39
Speaker 1: there's terrorists out there doesn't give probable cause to some
21:43
Speaker 1: individual who's not a terrorist to be searched. It's kind
21:48
Speaker 1: of that simple. Yeah. But again, as you say, it's
21:51
Speaker 1: really tough to to say, all, we need to just
21:54
Speaker 1: do away with this. I just I don't think that's
21:57
Speaker 1: the cases. Think there's better ways to do it. Yeah.
21:59
Speaker 1: On this had a couple of more startling things on
22:01
Speaker 1: the state level. You know, you can't profile. Federal policies
22:05
Speaker 1: prohibit that, and you can't on the state level either,
22:07
Speaker 1: but they allow states to. Um, they have different criteria
22:12
Speaker 1: for each state on what is deemed suspicious at least
22:15
Speaker 1: not necessarily this will get you nominated, but red flags
22:19
Speaker 1: at least and uh in Ohio, Um, any immersion and
22:24
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, immersion in a purely Muslim environment could get
22:28
Speaker 1: you red flagged. Uh. They advise landlords in some states
22:32
Speaker 1: to be alert on tenants who preferred ground floor apartments
22:35
Speaker 1: and who have little furniture. And then uh, anyone the
22:40
Speaker 1: study of technical subjects like engineering, just engineering. Huh. It's interesting. Um.
22:49
Speaker 1: Do you remember when the Patriot Act was first being
22:52
Speaker 1: discussed for the three minutes Um. One of the one
22:57
Speaker 1: of the mandates in it was that postal employees were
22:59
Speaker 1: expected to spy and report on people on their route.
23:03
Speaker 1: And the post office actually pushed back and said we're
23:06
Speaker 1: not doing that. Oh yeah, that's right, and they won.
23:08
Speaker 1: It was taken out, but it was in there like
23:10
Speaker 1: they wanted to deploy the postal service as a as
23:14
Speaker 1: domestic spies. They're like, dude, we just don't want to
23:18
Speaker 1: get bit by dogs. Just we've got enough on her
23:21
Speaker 1: plate as it is. I gotta redress stat for you
23:25
Speaker 1: to alright that Conger found. This is written by Kristen
23:27
Speaker 1: Konger from Stuff Mom Never told you. Yeah, and she's
23:30
Speaker 1: got a new host. We should mention, yes, new co
23:33
Speaker 1: host Molly is no longer there and she and they're
23:36
Speaker 1: doing a great job with you know, and best of
23:37
Speaker 1: elect to Molly. Of course she's she's writing her heart
23:41
Speaker 1: out right now. Yeah, sitting right next to you. Anyway. Uh.
23:45
Speaker 1: Conger found this stat and from two thousand five to
23:49
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, thirty five of people who complained that
23:53
Speaker 1: we're on the redress list I guess filed for redress,
23:57
Speaker 1: were kept on the list, were either had lower security
24:01
Speaker 1: or removed. And that's only how many. The other twenty
24:07
Speaker 1: were never heard from. Again, That's what I wondered it
24:09
Speaker 1: didn't have anything about the other And I mean it's
24:12
Speaker 1: funny and all that, like it's but again, it would
24:15
Speaker 1: stink if you're on that accidentally. But at the same time,
24:18
Speaker 1: we're also talking about the same government that operated like
24:20
Speaker 1: secret prisons overseas two for a while. Yeah. Or if
24:24
Speaker 1: you're one of these veterans that's stuck in Colombia, who
24:27
Speaker 1: are you talking about. There's this one a c l
24:30
Speaker 1: U article I mentioned found there are two Army veterans
24:33
Speaker 1: that are stuck outside the United States. And then the
24:35
Speaker 1: New York Times article was that lady with her fourteen
24:38
Speaker 1: year old daughter was stuck in Malaysia for a while,
24:42
Speaker 1: and a UK officer, because different countries have their own
24:45
Speaker 1: watch list and Britain has one, he got his wife
24:49
Speaker 1: put on the list so she couldn't come home. Wow,
24:53
Speaker 1: she's been in Turkey for three years until they found
24:55
Speaker 1: out about it. Wow, And then he was fired, like
24:58
Speaker 1: he was set to get promoted, and they were like,
25:00
Speaker 1: wait a minute, they're doing their research. They're like, your
25:02
Speaker 1: wife's on the the no fly list and he's like, what, bloy,
25:09
Speaker 1: She's been in Turkey for three years. So that's funny.
25:12
Speaker 1: It's an interesting way to get out of whatever he
25:15
Speaker 1: didn't want to do. Yeah, taking out the garbage, that's
25:19
Speaker 1: what it was. He just got t trash piled up.
25:22
Speaker 1: Now he's like Sylvia, Sylvia plaths no shel Silverstein poem
25:31
Speaker 1: where the girl doesn't want to take the garbage out. Yeah,
25:34
Speaker 1: Sylvia's something silver suits now or something like that. Yeah, well, um,
25:39
Speaker 1: and then chuck. Lastly, what do you want to like
25:42
Speaker 1: if you want to know? Obviously we're not on the list,
25:45
Speaker 1: or we weren't the last time we flew, because we flew, Um,
25:50
Speaker 1: nobody took us aside. Although, um, you and I now
25:53
Speaker 1: always get pat downs. Really, I just don't trust that
25:56
Speaker 1: backscatter thing. I don't think everybody knows enough about it.
25:59
Speaker 1: I'm sure it could be fine. Question, and you request
26:03
Speaker 1: the path every time? Yeah, interesting, And I have to
26:06
Speaker 1: say they almost never use the metal detector anymore never,
26:12
Speaker 1: so Yeah, we always see the pat down now, and
26:14
Speaker 1: it's stice you get to know the t s A
26:16
Speaker 1: Agent a lot more more closely, as they're padding you
26:19
Speaker 1: down with the backside of their hands and telling you
26:22
Speaker 1: what they're doing ahead of time. It's like I'm going
26:24
Speaker 1: to set your waist how to build up a sense
26:27
Speaker 1: of tension, don't you. Um, so what do you if
26:31
Speaker 1: you if you want to know if you're on this list,
26:33
Speaker 1: you can just fly right, try to go fly. That's
26:36
Speaker 1: gonna do something. It is if you're if you've been
26:41
Speaker 1: pulled over and not detained UM for like speeding or
26:45
Speaker 1: something like that, if you've just gotten a standard ticket,
26:47
Speaker 1: your your name is not on this list, not on
26:49
Speaker 1: this list, UM, and if you are, you can uh
26:54
Speaker 1: apply for information about yourself, not through the terrorist watch list,
26:59
Speaker 1: but UM through something called the UM specifically Designated Nationals
27:05
Speaker 1: and Black Persons list that the Treasury has that means
27:09
Speaker 1: you can't do business right exactly, you can't get alone,
27:11
Speaker 1: you can't Yeah, you can't do business with these people.
27:14
Speaker 1: It's it's a way of freezing somebody out of dealing
27:18
Speaker 1: in the United States, making money in the United States,
27:20
Speaker 1: usually because there's some sort of criminal right. If your
27:23
Speaker 1: name is on that list, there may be a high
27:25
Speaker 1: likelihood that you are on the terrorist watch list. And
27:29
Speaker 1: even if you're not, you want to get your name
27:31
Speaker 1: off that list because if you want to do business, yeah,
27:33
Speaker 1: eventually somebody's gonna be like, I can't loan you this money, Josh,
27:39
Speaker 1: I thought it was good. It was not good. I
27:41
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared. I think you saved us. No, I think
27:44
Speaker 1: this was It always gets so tricky with these uh
27:48
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties podcasts because it's you want it both ways.
27:52
Speaker 1: You don't want terrorists coming into the country, but you
27:55
Speaker 1: also don't want your friend who's just a friendly Muslim
27:59
Speaker 1: to be on the list. Alright, stricky ground. I don't
28:01
Speaker 1: know how I feel about it, you, uh, personally between
28:06
Speaker 1: you and me, if any other um that as long
28:13
Speaker 1: as it's amounting to little more than an inconvenience and
28:17
Speaker 1: there's still pressure to make it better, to do a
28:20
Speaker 1: better job of this, I'm I'm for the list before
28:25
Speaker 1: I'm maintaining a list, but being stuck in another country
28:28
Speaker 1: is yeah. Again, it's my personal experience until some terrorists
28:33
Speaker 1: named Josh Clark ends up on the list, and I'm
28:37
Speaker 1: j Smith from Iowa. Uh. If you want to know
28:41
Speaker 1: more about the Terrorists watch List and probably end up
28:44
Speaker 1: on the Terrorists watch List yourself, j k um, you
28:48
Speaker 1: can type in government watch list in the search bar
28:51
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. UM. You can also
28:54
Speaker 1: probably search that on maxim too. It'll bring up some stuff. Um,
28:59
Speaker 1: and since I said axim, that means it's time for
29:02
Speaker 1: listener mail. I thought it was gonna be time for
29:07
Speaker 1: top ten sexiest broad on reality TV. I'm sure it
29:12
Speaker 1: is on Maxim if this is fro a Maxim podcast,
29:14
Speaker 1: for sure. What I can't believe they had. I bet
29:17
Speaker 1: you that article that they had had like not clip art,
29:21
Speaker 1: but the stock photo of some guy like kind of
29:24
Speaker 1: half drunk on a plane, some bachelor like arguing with
29:27
Speaker 1: the steward. That's that's in um the uh it's in
29:30
Speaker 1: the last one about email. That's saying that like if
29:33
Speaker 1: the plane on the way to spring break is delayed,
29:36
Speaker 1: you feel like bomb or fire so they can get
29:38
Speaker 1: off and then write drink Yeah, which is a very
29:42
Speaker 1: maxim thing to do. That's a maximum if I ever
29:45
Speaker 1: heard one. All right, Josh, I'm gonna call this. Did
29:47
Speaker 1: you call for the listener mail? Yeah? Here is do
29:49
Speaker 1: we hear the day? Yeah it was in there. Someone
29:52
Speaker 1: let me call this very sweet email from a from
29:54
Speaker 1: a sister about her sister. Oh. I was hoping we
29:58
Speaker 1: would do this fine items se. I've been meaning to
30:01
Speaker 1: write for a while now, but haven't found an episode.
30:03
Speaker 1: I thought it could contribute to Then I realized how
30:05
Speaker 1: much the entire podcast means to me. My twin sister
30:09
Speaker 1: is married to a marine. They move all over the country.
30:12
Speaker 1: She's currently in Hawaii. We miss each other dearly, and
30:15
Speaker 1: it may sound funny, but your show makes us feel
30:17
Speaker 1: a little closer. We especially enjoyed the Shrunken Heads episode.
30:21
Speaker 1: You've had a good flow, and we're both very witty.
30:23
Speaker 1: We even call each other skull bag as an inside joke. Uh.
30:28
Speaker 1: The Spam episode made us laugh. My sister's name is
30:30
Speaker 1: Towards Tony Ann. In high school, she was nicknamed Tony
30:34
Speaker 1: Spam because of the rhyme and her affinity for the
30:37
Speaker 1: can pork broughtuct. She actually went to Spam Jam last spring,
30:43
Speaker 1: I guess in Hawaii, of course, and was a little
30:45
Speaker 1: disappointed that it wasn't as much fun as she expected.
30:48
Speaker 1: That's a very serious event, so is it. I don't
30:51
Speaker 1: know what she was expecting, right. We have so many
30:54
Speaker 1: inside jokes pertaining to your show. We run with Josh
30:56
Speaker 1: and Chuck, We hang at home with Josh and Chuck,
30:59
Speaker 1: and I think our friends are starting to think we
31:01
Speaker 1: are actually friends with Josh and Chuck anyway, Although we
31:04
Speaker 1: are six thousand miles in six hour time difference apart,
31:07
Speaker 1: we love to listen to the show each week and
31:09
Speaker 1: talk about all the jokes and the content. Thanks for
31:11
Speaker 1: bringing my other half a little closer every Thursday. I
31:15
Speaker 1: wonder if he does about Tuesdays. He's missing out on
31:19
Speaker 1: a half the fund. If you could read this letter,
31:21
Speaker 1: I know it would mean the world to my twin.
31:23
Speaker 1: If not, I'm just happy though. You all know that
31:26
Speaker 1: your show helps make our separational easier. One half of
31:29
Speaker 1: the stuff you should know. Fan of Melissa from Babylon,
31:32
Speaker 1: New York, and I guess Tony Inn in Hawaii, Tony Spam. Yeah,
31:38
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, Tony Spam and Melissa for listening to
31:41
Speaker 1: us and discussing what we say that's still after three years,
31:44
Speaker 1: is just out there to me. What the people talk
31:47
Speaker 1: about things that you and I say, Yeah, that's crazy.
31:51
Speaker 1: We're in a bubble in here. Um, if we are
31:55
Speaker 1: overlooking some huge pratfall to being on a government watch list,
32:02
Speaker 1: or there even being a government watch list, let us know.
32:05
Speaker 1: We want to hear. You're stuck on the no fly list, stories,
32:09
Speaker 1: the terrorists, watchless stories, whatever you got, Um, you can
32:13
Speaker 1: tweet to us S y s K podcast. That's our
32:15
Speaker 1: Twitter handle, Visit us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com,
32:19
Speaker 1: slash stuff you should Know, and you can always send
32:22
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email to us via Stuff Podcast
32:26
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check
32:34
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join
32:37
Speaker 1: how Stuff Work staff as we explore them as promising
32:40
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the
32:46
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you