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Happy Anniversary! The Day of the Doctor Commentary (with Dylan Rees & Iain Martin) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker
• 0:35
  quicker well instead of clapping.
• 0:38
  Dylan, will you give me 3 seconds?
• 0:40
  I will. I'll give you 3.
• 0:42
  I'll give you 2. I'll give you one.
• 0:44
  I'll give you go. Welcome back to a hamster with a
• 0:48
  blunt pen knife, The Doctor Who Commentary podcast Today I have
• 0:54
  got podcast. Oh alumni, what do I say
• 0:58
  royalty? Two of two of the best who have
• 1:03
  come together for a threesome orgy of fun and frolics to
• 1:07
  celebrate Doctor Who's anniversary.
• 1:10
  Ian Martin from the glorious Doctor Who book occasionally TV
• 1:15
  Now podcast. We're all stories in the end.
• 1:18
  Hello, Ian. Hello.
• 1:21
  How are you? I just thought I've, you know,
• 1:25
  I've just thought I'd try something different for this
• 1:27
  one. Why do you sound like April
• 1:29
  O'Neil from the turtles there? Is there any reason why I can't
• 1:32
  sound like April O'Neil from the Turtles?
• 1:34
  Keep it up for the whole podcast, that's fine.
• 1:37
  I couldn't keep it up for the whole podcast.
• 1:38
  I mean, no, this is this is like over an hour.
• 1:41
  And I'm, I'm a, I'm a man of an age.
• 1:44
  We was together the other week, Dylan.
• 1:46
  You couldn't keep up for 5 minutes.
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  Oh, and I've also got the glorious The Dylan Race from Too
• 1:52
  Hot for TV. Hello, Dylan.
• 1:54
  Hello, Unfortunately I decided not to do this episode and so
• 1:58
  we've recast and there's a special podcaster played by
• 2:01
  Jeremy Bentham that's going to be doing this episode instead of
• 2:04
  me because of my falling out of the BBC.
• 2:07
  Ah, fair, fair. What sort of absurd things will
• 2:11
  Mr. Bentham be saying about Day of the Doctor, may I ask?
• 2:14
  It's not as good as it used to be, is it?
• 2:18
  When are they going to start taping up their eyes for the
• 2:20
  Asians again? Well, that's a big clue as to
• 2:24
  what we're going to be talking about today.
• 2:26
  The 5th. Somehow I have not covered the
• 2:29
  50th at the first story, The Day of the Doctor ever.
• 2:34
  I assumed that you had and we were just doing it for a second
• 2:37
  time. I have done Power of the Doctor
• 2:40
  twice and I haven't done Day of the Doctor once, which may give
• 2:44
  you an idea of my leanings about this era.
• 2:47
  But before we press play, and it's a long 1, so we'll press
• 2:50
  play fairly quickly, I just want initial thoughts on the special
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  then and now, Dylan. Well, it's the rules in Doctor
• 3:01
  Who fandom, isn't it? The Doctor.
• 3:02
  The series around any anniversary has got to be shit.
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  So here. Here we are at the tail end of
• 3:09
  season 7, my excitements at a high, my enjoyments at a low and
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  I'm nervous. I'm anticipating what are they
• 3:17
  going to do? Is it going to hit the nail on
• 3:20
  the head? Are they going to get all the
• 3:21
  doctors in? Because it they really need to
• 3:23
  get all the doctors in. It's the 50th.
• 3:26
  I was very excited. I my brother said he's never
• 3:31
  seen me more excited as I was going into the cinema for a day
• 3:35
  of the doctor and then coming out afterwards.
• 3:37
  I had a riot. But I did think halfway through,
• 3:41
  they've fucked this. They've absolutely fucked it.
• 3:44
  But basically I'm a cliche of a fan.
• 3:47
  All the bits that I don't like are made-up for by all the
• 3:50
  doctors being there, Tom Baker being there and Christopher
• 3:53
  Eccleston's eyes being there. And indeed, what's his name?
• 3:58
  Peter Capaldi's eyes too. So I it's, it's I love more than
• 4:05
  I dislike about it, but I don't think it's perfect.
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  Ian. So I I missed the whole going to
• 4:15
  the cinema thing because I I was living in the Middle East when
• 4:20
  the 50th happened and so I was watching it star.
• 4:24
  Trek, right? They're not really into
• 4:27
  anything. It's it's quite bleak.
• 4:29
  So I was watching it on the iPlayer.
• 4:32
  There was a lot of buffering. My concerns were exactly the
• 4:35
  same as Dylan's. All the Doctors had to be in it
• 4:38
  somehow. I was confident it was going to
• 4:42
  be great because I just didn't question the Moffat.
• 4:46
  I just thought he's, he's great. He'll, he'll do a good job.
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  I was, you know, not expecting anything specific, but I was, I
• 4:57
  was really excited by it. I cannot believe, and I said
• 5:03
  this to you Ian, just between recordings, I cannot believe
• 5:07
  that Steven Moffat pulled off Maybe 99% of Doctor Who fandom
• 5:15
  came away from their expectations of the 50th
• 5:20
  satisfied. So what you just said there was
• 5:23
  that Steven Moffat pulled off 99% of Doctor families.
• 5:27
  Well, it was just Levine and Jeremy Bentham and a few others
• 5:30
  that were angry, but. He did that because they all
• 5:33
  hated the special, so he had to please them somehow.
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  This was the period where I really kept an eye on the
• 5:38
  socials and Gallifrey based and all of that.
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  And just the feeling afterwards was I think maybe Tom Baker
• 5:44
  saving him for that last scene helped that everyone came away
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  from the cinema going, yeah, it's, you know, my God, a
• 5:50
  classic Doctor. How amazing, but he did it
• 5:53
  right. It was huge expectation for this
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  and he actually managed to please most people.
• 5:58
  For me, this comes right in the heart of the most fallow period
• 6:04
  of the new series for me between season 7 B and season 8 A.
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  The first half of I think that is just the worst period of the
• 6:14
  new series, bar none. I think Moffett is very busy,
• 6:19
  right? And Sherlock at the same time,
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  and his eyes off the ball a little bit with Doctor Who, and
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  I think he does get his acting gear a bit going forward.
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  However, he saved and all of his energy and his creativity and
• 6:32
  all of his skill for this. This is the thing that had to
• 6:34
  hit. This is the thing that was going
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  to be shown all over the world at the same time.
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  I mean, that's mad, right? Imagine doing that now.
• 6:41
  They just wouldn't. It was #2 it was the number two
• 6:44
  film that weekend at the US box office, which is wild.
• 6:48
  Crazy did. You like the US box office?
• 6:50
  Yes. Not the UK, the.
• 6:53
  US. The US.
• 6:55
  And in terms of numbers, right, it's the most watched Doctor Who
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  of all time. Yeah, surely.
• 7:00
  Yeah, and you know who wouldn't? Who wouldn't wish for times like
• 7:06
  this again? My only issue with Day at the
• 7:08
  Doctor I think, are certain plot things in there.
• 7:12
  As usual with Stephen Moffatt, I think he's trying a bit too hard
• 7:15
  in places, but I think he pulled off a great production with
• 7:20
  enough love looking back and certainly enough love for the
• 7:23
  new series to keep most people happy.
• 7:27
  I just wish you hadn't fought fucking Gallifrey back at the
• 7:30
  end. But we will get there.
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  We will get was gentlemen. Enough of this Bliba blaba.
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  Should we go in and watch the thing?
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  Let's do it. Call it Ian, I mean Dylan
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  counted me into the episode where you do it.
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  A great honour of counting us into the William Hartnell title
• 7:45
  sequence. I absolutely will, Hartnell
• 7:48
  title sequence in 321 do. You guys remember that That
• 7:56
  terrible trailer they did going around the junkyard with all?
• 8:00
  I like that. I love that.
• 8:01
  I love that. So fake.
• 8:04
  No it doesn't. It looks better than the fucking
• 8:07
  cosplay and smudgy face at the end of this episode.
• 8:09
  Who is? That person.
• 8:10
  Cosplay and smudgy face was a. Great whisper fencing with the
• 8:14
  master. Yeah, they forgot to replace the
• 8:17
  guy's face. Oh, are we watching An Unearthly
• 8:22
  Child? I am foreman scrap OH.
• 8:25
  Cole Hill School. The geography of this is all
• 8:28
  wrong. Split away.
• 8:30
  We all know that I wasn't next to Cole Hill.
• 8:33
  Ian and Barbara drove there. I mean if they literally drove
• 8:36
  around the. Corner.
• 8:37
  Who else thought that this fellow was a student rather than
• 8:40
  a teacher? He.
• 8:43
  Does possibly 13 if you're feeling generous.
• 8:46
  Oh, here she is. Clara Ross Walls, everyone's
• 8:49
  favorite. When you are travelling in time
• 8:51
  and space with Doctor Who, would you really go back to your job
• 8:54
  being a fucking teacher? No, it seems unlikely given what
• 8:58
  I know of the the profession, Yeah.
• 9:02
  I do love the fact that she rides a motorbike straight into
• 9:04
  the TARDIS here though, very cool.
• 9:07
  It's a very cool shot and it's sort of setting out the MO of
• 9:10
  like this is going to be a big epic adventure.
• 9:12
  I mean they it's not for a lot of it.
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  But they have got more money for this, right?
• 9:16
  I can see money. No, they have the same amount of
• 9:19
  money for that they would have for a Christmas special.
• 9:22
  The only extra money was the cost of the 3D cameras, but it
• 9:27
  is the same cost as any. Other that is crazy because I
• 9:30
  know that they gave them a ton of extra effects money for Power
• 9:33
  of the Doctor. Yeah, but not here.
• 9:37
  Madness. Yeah, it's not a big budget.
• 9:41
  So I'm in a bit of a disadvantageous position, chaps,
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  because here's my least favorite new series Doctor with my least
• 9:46
  favorite new series companion. However, I think they're quite
• 9:49
  fun here. They are quite fun this.
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  By this point, I think Matt Smith's phoning it in, and I've
• 9:54
  really just got no time for his doctor at this.
• 9:56
  Point. Well, even in this one.
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  I think he's a bit better here, but I just hate the I hate
• 10:00
  everything that comes out of his mouth because he always speaks
• 10:02
  like this. Oh I love this.
• 10:05
  I'm an old man in a in a young man's body.
• 10:09
  It's like a fuck off, Matt Smith.
• 10:10
  I'm I'm going to meet you, Dylan, because I will not have
• 10:13
  this, I will not have this anti Smith sentiment.
• 10:17
  No, he's great in most of Series 5, apart from that God awful
• 10:20
  Stonehenge moment and that panting that he does when he's
• 10:23
  trapped in that box. And he's all right in some of
• 10:25
  Series 6. By Series 7, he's phoning it.
• 10:27
  In you're no, I I can't disagree with you.
• 10:30
  Oh, there's what's her face? It's Petronella Rosgood.
• 10:33
  And do we know why she's here? No, tell me.
• 10:36
  It was written for Lee Evans character.
• 10:40
  No. Yeah, that was in Planet of the.
• 10:42
  Day he wasn't available. He wasn't available because of
• 10:44
  course, if you're going to get, if you're doing a special, you
• 10:47
  want to get one of the biggest comedians in the world in, it
• 10:49
  makes sense. I do love this though, The
• 10:52
  TARDIS hanging from the helicopter going over London.
• 10:55
  Yeah, it's like a big grabber like you get at the seaside at
• 10:58
  the pier, isn't it? Yeah, the things that go down
• 11:02
  stroke the cuddly bear and then. But yeah, you've got the.
• 11:07
  This is a bit of spectacle, isn't?
• 11:08
  It this is, this is incredible. This is like in in Was it the
• 11:12
  Runaway Bride where you've got the TARDIS flying along the M1
• 11:15
  or whatever. This is nobody can hang like
• 11:19
  he's hanging there. No, no one hangs like a Matt
• 11:22
  Smith hang. I mean, it would be just my
• 11:27
  luck, you know, It would be the one day I go to London will be
• 11:29
  the day Matt Smith drives into Trafalgar Square.
• 11:32
  Just that's on there. Here we can.
• 11:36
  The TARDIS, we see the bottom and there's nothing to hold on
• 11:38
  to, and then all of a sudden he's holding on to the bottom
• 11:41
  because they've gone. It looks cool, who gives a fuck?
• 11:43
  And I think that's fine. I don't know if you can, you
• 11:45
  can't hear it, but it's handsome.
• 11:51
  His theme was banging, wouldn't it?
• 11:53
  Yeah, I feel like there is a shot where you can see the
• 11:56
  bottom of the TARDIS and you can see the 2 little handles.
• 11:59
  Yeah, it's this shot right here. You can see it there, but
• 12:02
  earlier on when it's in the air, it's got a smooth bottom.
• 12:07
  I love sort of what they've done here and gone will set it in
• 12:10
  central London, you know, big iconic landmarks and they just
• 12:14
  they just use the audience watching filming as part of the
• 12:18
  the set up because what else would a secret military
• 12:20
  organization do but land the doctors time and space machine
• 12:25
  in front of a large crowd? That's true as much as having
• 12:29
  that enormous tower built in the middle of London.
• 12:31
  I don't think units very subtle these days.
• 12:34
  Gone are the days of top secret keep out signs outside of
• 12:38
  country mansions I the unit being inside the Tower of
• 12:44
  London. That was from Power Free, wasn't
• 12:46
  it? That's been established.
• 12:48
  Yeah. OK.
• 12:49
  And. This is Kate's second
• 12:51
  appearance. After that, yeah.
• 12:55
  Yeah, what do I? Do here actually.
• 12:58
  Oh, she's, I can't stand her. She's always phoned it in.
• 13:01
  I think if we're going to level like criticism at Matt Smith.
• 13:04
  She's so bad, she's so bad they gave her her own spin off and
• 13:08
  decided she couldn't lead it. Yeah.
• 13:13
  Oh, I remember seeing this painting for the first time, you
• 13:15
  know, when the camera goes zooming in, thinking I was never
• 13:18
  going to see a better special effect.
• 13:20
  Oh yeah, television. And I saw flux and I changed my
• 13:23
  mind. But you know.
• 13:24
  But I watched this in 3D in the cinema.
• 13:27
  I've been at the Doctor Who convention in the day, but I
• 13:30
  didn't want to watch it there because you couldn't watch it in
• 13:31
  3D there. Because just what a classic BBC
• 13:34
  move will do a big celebration of the show and not be able to
• 13:37
  show the special in 3D? What's more exciting then sort
• 13:41
  of this 3D picture here with Jenna Coleman and Matt Smith, or
• 13:45
  the bit in Power of the Doctor where Sophie Aldridge standing
• 13:48
  in front of an empty picture? I know what the answer is for
• 13:51
  you, Dylan. Sophie Aldridge.
• 13:53
  It's not this, is it. But this is very cool.
• 13:57
  I I'm not sure about some of the directorial choices here.
• 14:01
  All these little cuts and flashes to different things.
• 14:05
  It's it's. It's a bit odd.
• 14:08
  Well, there's just so many cuts. Oh, that was a very unpleasant
• 14:12
  thing that happened to his face there, becoming John Hurt there.
• 14:14
  For a second, it looked like he'd been scarred by a fire.
• 14:20
  Now the thing to me about this story is once it goes into that
• 14:24
  painting, I don't want it to leave.
• 14:26
  I think all the best stuff happens in that painting.
• 14:29
  OK I'm I'm going to disagree with you there only be
• 14:31
  unsurprisingly because I just find the Time War as presented
• 14:36
  in this story so boring. I was promised the Nightmare
• 14:40
  Child and the armies of Never Worse and what I get is Star
• 14:43
  Wars with Daleks. But that's, but that's what I
• 14:46
  mean, I want I want to see more of it.
• 14:48
  I know this, this is just a battle.
• 14:49
  This is the final days. We'll get to the conclusion in a
• 14:52
  bit because. Yeah, I mean, this looks great.
• 14:56
  Look at these drones coming down.
• 14:58
  I remember I. Remember the trailer dropping
• 15:01
  for this? And I was like, this is going to
• 15:03
  be the best Doctor Who story ever.
• 15:05
  And at the time, it did feel a bit like it.
• 15:07
  Maybe this is where the money is because this does look quite
• 15:10
  pricey, doesn't? It Yeah, well, they've spent the
• 15:12
  money on this stuff because let's be real, the rest of it is
• 15:15
  dicking around in a field. That's Doctor Who, Dylan.
• 15:21
  Oh, look, people are flying about the place.
• 15:23
  It's like tips kids back. This is like the first 5 minutes
• 15:27
  of the pilot of Firefly. This is great.
• 15:30
  It's brilliant. I do like all the slow motion
• 15:33
  people dying and the children looking absolutely horrified.
• 15:36
  Here we go, the ashes flying everywhere.
• 15:39
  Oh, the horror of war. Hey, oh, it's terrible.
• 15:44
  I just thought of, in my mind it does look great, but in my mind
• 15:48
  the Time War was just this weird unknowable timelines mixing and
• 15:53
  you know, mad love crafting and horrors popping out of nowhere.
• 15:58
  And when it was all boiled down to a couple of soldiers and some
• 16:01
  Daleks, I was like, oh, OK, that's what we could afford.
• 16:04
  I I think it is that, but this is, you know, the final assault
• 16:08
  on Gallifrey. You think that's just happening
• 16:10
  over there? Yeah.
• 16:13
  Silver devastation over here. The the Is it the Midnight child
• 16:18
  or the something? The nightmare.
• 16:20
  Child. The nightmare child.
• 16:21
  Well chaps, it's time to discuss John her Ian.
• 16:24
  Oh. Hello.
• 16:26
  Yes, there's John Hurt. He's apparently the doctor.
• 16:29
  He's typing in No, he's writing no more on the wall, and he
• 16:32
  writes the letter N Then we cut and the walls got no writing on
• 16:36
  it, and then we cut back and then it ends there again.
• 16:39
  There's. Some really dodgy editing in
• 16:41
  this. But my question really was, you
• 16:45
  know, what do you think about inserting an extra doctor into
• 16:50
  continuity and John Hurt play in that doctor.
• 16:53
  I think getting John Hurt was an incredible coup.
• 16:58
  I assume they only did it because Eccleston said no, and I
• 17:04
  would much rather have had Eccleston in it.
• 17:09
  My my understanding is that a certain producer who didn't work
• 17:13
  on the show for very long, Eccleston had met with oh we see
• 17:18
  a bit of green screen when the TARDIS burst through the wall
• 17:20
  there as well. Eccleston had met with Moffett a
• 17:24
  couple of times and was tentatively interested to the
• 17:28
  point the script was read being written.
• 17:30
  The producer then puts pressure on Eccleston to sign up and he
• 17:33
  backs out then. Was that the producer that was
• 17:38
  erased from Doctor Who? Dylan.
• 17:40
  Yeah, and then who may be responsible for Matt Smith's
• 17:44
  contract not being signed for the fourth season as well.
• 17:48
  But then, then Moffett goes, well, it's going to be Paul
• 17:53
  McGann. And the BBC said you promised us
• 17:56
  the Olympics. We're not.
• 17:57
  We're not doing Paul McGowan. Oh my God, imagine how happy
• 18:02
  everyone would have been with Paul.
• 18:03
  McGowan. That would have been so much
• 18:05
  better than even Eccleston. Is that why we got night at the
• 18:07
  Doctor then? That's why we got Night at the
• 18:09
  Doctor. And so, yeah, here we are with
• 18:13
  this version. And John hurts great.
• 18:15
  And, you know, it's, it's a real coup for the show.
• 18:18
  I can't help but think that they probably went for some bigger
• 18:22
  stars first of all to see who they could get Hugh.
• 18:25
  Grant, probably he's. Got the.
• 18:27
  Grand. He's got the the.
• 18:30
  Presence, yeah. But I I, you know, by all
• 18:34
  accounts, this was a bit thrown together quite quickly in the
• 18:37
  end. And, you know, there was a point
• 18:39
  where only Jenna Coleman was signed up to do it.
• 18:42
  So I can imagine. I can imagine, like they're four
• 18:45
  weeks out and Eccleston's turned it down and they're just like,
• 18:49
  right phone everybody. Look at them doing these laser
• 18:53
  effects. They've got no money for sets,
• 18:55
  so we'll just do laser effects. Yeah, but I I really like seeing
• 19:01
  Gallifrey in this because it's exciting.
• 19:03
  I'm a Gallifrey lover, as you know.
• 19:06
  I think it's so boring. I just couldn't be less
• 19:08
  interested. And the ending of this, I mean,
• 19:10
  where everyone was cheering, I was going, no, we're going to
• 19:13
  get hell bent now around the which is.
• 19:18
  One of the best Doctor Who stories.
• 19:20
  Oh, you are sweet, this desert. Stuff looks great.
• 19:24
  Like really really good. I got to say, a minute ago there
• 19:29
  was this sort of pettigenous CGI shot going right down onto the
• 19:34
  Dome of Gallifrey. It looks amazing.
• 19:37
  Yeah, really good. And although they sort of
• 19:39
  perfected it, do you remember in Thomas Children where they had
• 19:42
  the whole Dome built up from nothing out of CGI?
• 19:45
  Yeah, wonderful. Well, I mean, Chris Chibnall
• 19:48
  just takes everything that the other writers do and perfects
• 19:51
  it. Ian, you do you want to jump in
• 19:54
  there? I can't breathe, I can't do
• 19:59
  words. I don't know where to start with
• 20:01
  that. But yeah, here's here's John
• 20:04
  Hurt, looking very hurt as he looks cool, as he trudges and
• 20:08
  he's like, oh, little, little surprised face.
• 20:11
  Oh, there's that old barn I remember from.
• 20:15
  Before. Oh, it would become important
• 20:17
  again, won't it? And listen.
• 20:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:19
  Oh, and Hell Bent of course, shows.
• 20:21
  Up the the. Barn Trilogy.
• 20:24
  And this this being the first time it's used, this episode's
• 20:27
  known as the barn father so. Interesting.
• 20:31
  I wanted to like show you how lighting comes on you because I
• 20:33
  think this is reasonably well lit, this bond.
• 20:35
  But skip forward to Demons of the Punjab, where they're
• 20:38
  shooting in similar sort of spaces, but the lighting is so
• 20:41
  much better. Yeah.
• 20:45
  I love the moment, the moment I think I understand why they cast
• 20:53
  Billie Piper at the moment, but I think they missed a real trick
• 20:55
  there. I think that is.
• 20:57
  Matthew Waterhouse. Well, I think that's how you get
• 20:59
  the classic doctors in. Yeah, I think you're.
• 21:03
  Thinking of Chris Chibnall again, aren't you?
• 21:05
  Well no, but even then or it's a good chance it could take the
• 21:08
  form of many different people that have been important to the
• 21:11
  Doctor. You could have had multiple
• 21:12
  companions, old and new and done something that without
• 21:17
  crowbarring them in too much. I think that is something that,
• 21:21
  and I do mean this genuinely and I think that is something that
• 21:24
  Power of the Doctor does get better than Day of the Doctor,
• 21:27
  and that is that the classic series fans don't feel
• 21:29
  shortchanged in Power of the Doctor, whereas here this does
• 21:33
  feel like a celebration of new Who.
• 21:35
  Well, what's happening on screen now is that this new Doctor, the
• 21:38
  War Doctor, is talking to the 16th Doctor.
• 21:45
  That's right, yeah. We think.
• 21:48
  So. Maybe we'll find out in
• 21:50
  Christmas. Oh, she's.
• 21:50
  Doing a little dance. I do know how playful she plays
• 21:53
  this role. I and this is exactly if Billy
• 21:56
  Piper does end up playing the Doctor, I want this.
• 21:58
  I want a a weird batshit interpretation of someone who's,
• 22:04
  you know, like early Colin. Like if something's gone, it
• 22:07
  won't be no, but she'll. Be a hyperactive lesbian.
• 22:10
  Yeah, I, when I was talking to Rob Schumann this week, he said
• 22:15
  when he watched this, right, he was convinced that this story
• 22:19
  was leading up to the point where we were going to justify
• 22:22
  the genocide of everybody on Gallifrey.
• 22:25
  Like he was like, well, we can't rewrite that because that's the
• 22:28
  series as we've seen so far, right?
• 22:31
  And I think that's Steven Moffitt's genius here is that it
• 22:35
  really does lead you in the direction of thinking that's
• 22:38
  going to happen. And then when Matamir finally
• 22:40
  goes, yeah, no, we're not going to do that, Let's do something.
• 22:43
  I'm the Doctor, let's do something else.
• 22:45
  I mean, I hate the fact that Gallifrey saved, but I love the
• 22:49
  fact that the Doctor isn't a mass murderer at the end of it.
• 22:52
  So swing some roundabouts. Indeed, indeed.
• 22:57
  She does look kind of hot, you know, It's the Bad Wolf as the
• 23:00
  moment. She really.
• 23:02
  Yeah. That's why I'm not saying much
• 23:04
  listeners. I'm, I'm transfixed.
• 23:08
  Oh, she's, she's done the glowy eyes now.
• 23:10
  Very few actors can do that. So this is this is the one thing
• 23:15
  that Big Friend has picked up on with the War Doctor.
• 23:17
  So don't call me the Doctor. I don't go by that name anymore
• 23:20
  and he always behave like the Doctor in Big Fish.
• 23:24
  It's really frustrating. It's it is just, it ends up
• 23:30
  being just Doctor Who, but with the with him going, that's not
• 23:34
  my name. I think being slipped into tight
• 23:37
  cracks like the War Doctor. From time to time I do, yes.
• 23:41
  No, but do you object to the idea of a a regeneration of the
• 23:45
  Doctor we don't know about? No, I'm, as you know, I'm a big
• 23:48
  advocate for the Timeless Child. I'm happy that there's loads of
• 23:51
  incarnations of the Doctor we don't know about and cram them
• 23:54
  in wherever you want. You was less keen on the
• 23:56
  fugitive Dr., wasn't you? I'm less keen on her performance
• 24:00
  but like she doesn't have big dark energy for me.
• 24:05
  I just always feel short changed because I don't think I get
• 24:08
  enough of Hertz Doctor and I certainly don't get enough of
• 24:11
  Joe Martin's Doctor. So I'm like, yeah, fair enough.
• 24:15
  It's a fun gimmick, but I can't really consider they turn up on
• 24:18
  the fucking calendars now and I'm like, they're only in one
• 24:21
  episode. Joe Martin is only in 25 minutes
• 24:23
  of material. Yeah, I, I, it doesn't, it
• 24:28
  doesn't offend me that they're there, but it is, it is a weird
• 24:31
  choice. It's like where?
• 24:33
  Where's all those little kids that were in the Timeless Child?
• 24:36
  Why aren't they? Why aren't they on the annuals?
• 24:40
  Be accused of being paedophiles, that's why so.
• 24:44
  So John Hur is really the 9th incarnation of the Doctor and he
• 24:49
  wears what is clearly a a very battered black leather jacket.
• 24:53
  And then when he regenerates into the 10th Doctor,
• 24:56
  Christopher Eccleston, he decides to wear a sort of
• 24:59
  battered black leather jacket. That's that's a bit lame.
• 25:04
  That's. I'm not sure about the subtlety
• 25:06
  of the slow motion children dancing around the maypole as he
• 25:10
  thinks back to Gallifrey of yesteryear.
• 25:13
  I don't remember ever seeing scenes like that back in the.
• 25:17
  Time Lords most the most advanced race.
• 25:19
  How do they keep the kids busy? May, Paul.
• 25:22
  Because you never had children before.
• 25:25
  The youngest people on Gallifrey that we knew about were people
• 25:28
  like Heading and Flavia and they probably didn't go outside at
• 25:32
  break and run about and play bulldog very much.
• 25:35
  Well, speaking as obviously Dylan's already had the
• 25:37
  education about the looms, he's covered.
• 25:39
  Longbarrow. You're heading towards the
• 25:41
  Airwols, Ian, so you'll get there soon.
• 25:43
  And I'm doing it next month, so pretty soon we'll all understand
• 25:47
  why there's no children about. No one fucks, that's why.
• 25:51
  Who are these children now? That big wibbly wobbly vortex
• 25:55
  that just appeared there? Now that's Steven Moffett, sort
• 25:58
  of tiny. Why me?
• 25:59
  Narrative device in this, isn't it?
• 26:01
  How we can get all the different Doctors in different sort of
• 26:03
  places? Yeah, it's that bird from Gavin
• 26:08
  and Stacey. Joanna Page.
• 26:10
  So at this point I'm starting to lose my goodwill with this
• 26:15
  episode. You've hardly said nice things
• 26:17
  yet. What are you talking about?
• 26:18
  No, I I loved all the stuff at the beginning is very stylistic
• 26:22
  and exciting, but this is just a little bit.
• 26:25
  This is when it turns into a bit of a generic Doctor Who story.
• 26:27
  Don't you like the fun with the zygoms?
• 26:29
  I fucking hate the zygoms. Oh boy, Ian quickly say
• 26:33
  something positive. I What a marvellous array of
• 26:39
  artworks they've assembled there for for reasons.
• 26:43
  What I do find baffling is how the Saigons somehow look worse
• 26:48
  in the series than in the classic series.
• 26:51
  They look like rubber monsters. They need to be a bit more slimy
• 26:54
  and it it, it really annoys me. And don't show them in broad
• 26:58
  daylight, show them in shadow. See, again, we are just ticking
• 27:01
  off new who things. We've got a picture there of
• 27:04
  what Tennant, and that's from the Shakespeare Code.
• 27:08
  The unit that's come in, it's all new series, unit characters.
• 27:12
  So there hasn't been much of the classic series in this year, has
• 27:15
  there? No SO.
• 27:16
  I think when you read the book or listen to the audio book, you
• 27:20
  suddenly see what Moffett would have loved to have done had he
• 27:25
  had the money, which is, you know, elongated flashbacks to
• 27:29
  the 70s and all the Doctors appearing some way, somehow.
• 27:35
  The the end of the novelisation where he has all of the doctors
• 27:39
  come together in the Time War, saving the kids and all of that
• 27:42
  and you know, jumping off mountains and things.
• 27:44
  It's just glorious. Agreed.
• 27:48
  Now, David Tennant's just turned up, so I'm a bit less interested
• 27:52
  in what's happening down there. Talk to you guys.
• 27:55
  What's going on with his hair? What part of the 10th Doctor's
• 27:58
  life did he do that with his hair?
• 28:00
  This is hair bullshit. What did If you don't like David
• 28:06
  Tennant, you should be fine with him here, because he's not
• 28:08
  written like the 10th Doctor. He's written, but like the 11th
• 28:10
  Doctor. This is not the the 10th Doctor
• 28:13
  we know. Well, what's that film where
• 28:15
  Cameron Diaz used the Jews to sort of lift her hair up?
• 28:20
  Do you think about? Mary Yeah.
• 28:21
  Well, he's sort of done the same thing, but in reverse.
• 28:24
  He's used it to sort of slap it down here.
• 28:26
  There's something about David. He's been using something about
• 28:30
  her sort of queen juices, you know?
• 28:32
  Yeah. Slap his hair down.
• 28:34
  Juices Liz Liz Jizz if you will. I mean, I think David Tennant
• 28:39
  coming in as a savvy move because automatically there's 5
• 28:42
  million more people watching this than otherwise would be.
• 28:45
  Oh it's the machine downloads comics from future and it goes
• 28:48
  Ding. I love.
• 28:50
  That. It's a Muppet line if ever I
• 28:53
  heard. I love David Tennant and I know
• 28:58
  people get a bit annoyed that he's the the one that keeps
• 29:01
  coming back, but if this was the 1980s and they were, they kept
• 29:04
  bringing back Tom Baker. All the people that complain
• 29:07
  bloody love it. He is.
• 29:10
  Love him or loathe him or love or loathe the idea, he is the
• 29:13
  most successful doctor that has ever been, and he is the most
• 29:17
  popular face of the series. I am less convinced by Joanna
• 29:21
  here as the queen only because I'm not sure she's got a queen
• 29:25
  in her. Have you ever had a queen in
• 29:28
  you, Jeff? More than once.
• 29:30
  Yes, more than once. When you were there.
• 29:33
  I. Think you're like Buckingham
• 29:34
  Palace? The number of Queens you've.
• 29:37
  Off with their heads, I'm done with them.
• 29:41
  But I see why she's there as well.
• 29:43
  Because as Gavin A Stapy has just proven with its enormous
• 29:48
  viewing figures, it was a really popular show.
• 29:51
  I think it's savvy and Moffitt's always said if I can find a
• 29:54
  popular actor and put them in in whatever row, I'll do it.
• 29:59
  J&T was right. He was.
• 30:01
  And that's like any good showrunner.
• 30:03
  That's what they should. They're thinking.
• 30:05
  It's like, who can we get in this part?
• 30:07
  It's the scenes later where she has to convince her she's great,
• 30:10
  this great sort of politicking royal.
• 30:13
  And I'm like, no, no, you're the woman from Gavin and Stacey.
• 30:18
  They've spent all, they've spent all the money at this point
• 30:20
  though, haven't they? And here they are, digging about
• 30:22
  in a forest with a rabbit and some rubber monsters and.
• 30:25
  It's a very cute rabbit. It's a very cute rabbit.
• 30:27
  This is one of my favorite rabbit scenes of pretty much
• 30:31
  anything that's ever had a rabbit in it.
• 30:33
  I mean this is 1 joke I do like where he's sending a piss out of
• 30:36
  Rusty Davis's grandstanding. I am the doctor's bitches.
• 30:41
  Yeah, you'll you'll just a rabbit.
• 30:45
  I mean, we saw a Zygon just a second ago and none of us
• 30:47
  mentioned it. It was so unimbreasive it.
• 30:50
  Was the the Zygons are shot so badly in this.
• 30:54
  I mean, all of this woodland stuff, it's not badly shot, is
• 30:57
  it? It's it's.
• 30:58
  Pretty no, but no. But it's it's very standard
• 31:01
  issue to tell it. You know, it picks up when the
• 31:04
  portal appears, you know, and then suddenly they're talking to
• 31:07
  each other and Matt Smith's, you know, waving this Sonic
• 31:10
  screwdriver about and all of that.
• 31:14
  So we got, oh, she's about two foot.
• 31:17
  The one one of these Queens is about two foot taller than the
• 31:19
  other one in that last shot. Would this be more effective
• 31:23
  though if it was a character we knew?
• 31:25
  Do you know what I mean? Doing duplicates and things.
• 31:28
  Yeah. If it was, say, Catherine Tate.
• 31:31
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:34
  What do we think of? Do we think they were right to
• 31:39
  only you go for three doctors. Obviously one of them is a new
• 31:42
  one. I think at the point where
• 31:45
  you're not getting Eccleston back, you do something different
• 31:50
  because, you know, if you're not allowed McGann and you can't
• 31:54
  have Eccleston, so you don't do 3.
• 31:56
  Just do. Just just do like we were
• 31:59
  saying, you know, use use the actors to be other characters or
• 32:02
  something. I think 3 is the optimum number
• 32:06
  of doctors you can have as IE them all playing the same
• 32:09
  character. You certainly can't have let's
• 32:13
  say there's an infinite budget and an infinite amount of CGI
• 32:16
  having 1516 actors playing the same part, just there isn't a
• 32:21
  story in it. So you're right to reduce the
• 32:23
  others to cameos. Although I can imagine why those
• 32:27
  existing Alive actors were a bit disappointed with their single
• 32:30
  line that they got in the climax.
• 32:33
  They got a better roll of the dice when they were sitting on
• 32:36
  that rock at the Cliff edge in Paradox and.
• 32:38
  I do think Power of the Doctor, if you want to include old
• 32:42
  doctors that can't run around anymore, is the absolute way it
• 32:46
  should be done. And if they ever do it again,
• 32:49
  will be done like, you know, you just can't it.
• 32:52
  It would have been slightly embarrassing, I think, to have
• 32:55
  Colin Baker trying to fit into his costume again and I just
• 32:59
  don't think it would have worked.
• 33:01
  I think Colin Baker looking fat is fine, but that costume is the
• 33:04
  embarrassing element. Does that cost do?
• 33:07
  We need a close up on our face. Oh yes, because Fez is a cool I.
• 33:13
  Fucking hate the fez. Yeah, I mean, I liked it when
• 33:16
  Sophie Aldrin had it on in Silver Nemesis.
• 33:18
  That was quite cute. That's because Sophie Alder's
• 33:21
  great. Why is she not in this then in
• 33:24
  the great anniversary? Because Steven Moffett hates
• 33:28
  classic Doctor Who. Oh wait, but she is in power of
• 33:31
  the Doctor parachuting her way into the TARDIS.
• 33:36
  I like all this stuff hiding in paintings and stuff like that.
• 33:40
  I think it's a really good idea. I think there's there's probably
• 33:42
  more to be done with it to be honest.
• 33:44
  Oh, it's setting up the ending, isn't it?
• 33:45
  Yeah, all these weird cuts to like the glass breaking after
• 33:50
  it's broken and stuff. It's it's all very odd.
• 33:53
  Yeah. Somebody thinks they're making
• 33:55
  an art house. Yeah.
• 33:56
  Yeah, someone's very. Sort of stylistic.
• 33:59
  This is also, I don't know if you remember Joe, this is
• 34:02
  basically the plot of Demontage, which was the first book we did
• 34:06
  together on the stories in the paintings.
• 34:09
  And someone was trapped in the painting and then it got burnt
• 34:12
  alive. We were hoping it was going to
• 34:14
  be Sam Jones. Yeah.
• 34:17
  Oh, here we go. The portal's here.
• 34:19
  Here. We are right.
• 34:20
  Time for sort of interdoctor personal.
• 34:24
  You better. You better like.
• 34:28
  Because poor old Clara, she doesn't get much to do until the
• 34:33
  second-half, does she? Clara doesn't get much to do
• 34:36
  until the next season. That's that's fair.
• 34:41
  Until they write a different character for her to be.
• 34:45
  Oh, all right. There he goes.
• 34:46
  So. So he's I'll there.
• 34:48
  Yeah. The Trapolus is, they're
• 34:50
  essentially the same character, right?
• 34:53
  Yeah, the 11th Doctors. Yeah, basically.
• 34:56
  Chappies. There's nothing.
• 34:57
  There's no sort of tension or old young, you know?
• 35:01
  One's got a bigger Sonic screwdriver, Ian.
• 35:04
  Yeah, 1's got a hat. I hate how Chris David Tennant's
• 35:08
  suit is around his sort of midriff.
• 35:10
  Somebody needs to get a good steamer or an iron on that.
• 35:12
  Do you think? How does that work in your head
• 35:15
  cannon? Does the TARDIS do that while
• 35:17
  the Doctor's asleep? Or does the Doctor do ironing on
• 35:20
  his suit when the companion's asleep?
• 35:23
  I I think that's what he does. He stays up all night ironing.
• 35:26
  Yeah, we've got a big wardrobe. Yeah, it's very.
• 35:30
  Funny, isn't it, that we're celebrating Matt Smith and David
• 35:33
  Tennant here. I those are the two Doctors that
• 35:35
  don't get a mention in a number of The Doctor is everyone else
• 35:38
  in that. But that's because he thought
• 35:41
  they'd all be coming back for the new series.
• 35:43
  Doctors would be coming back next year.
• 35:45
  Otherwise Chibnall would have put.
• 35:46
  Them. Oh, and of course David Tenders
• 35:47
  at the end of Power. The Doctor would get very
• 35:49
  confusing. There was a rumour, and I don't
• 35:54
  know how true this is, that when Steven Moffitt took over the
• 35:57
  show, he sort of knew that the 50th was going to be something
• 36:01
  that he had to do. In the back of his mind he was
• 36:04
  like, well, the companion for the 50th will be Sarah Jane
• 36:07
  Smith. But then obviously.
• 36:09
  Passed. Away, which is why Clara is Liz
• 36:13
  Sladen's middle name and that's why she's called Clara.
• 36:17
  I don't know. I can't say for certain.
• 36:19
  It sort of fits because but at the time he wouldn't have known
• 36:23
  he was doing a mini series or whatever.
• 36:25
  So I mean. Imagine Sarah and the Zygons.
• 36:28
  Tara. The Zygons.
• 36:29
  She could have been the duplicate instead of the Queen.
• 36:32
  That could have been really fun. But I think Jenna Coleman is up
• 36:36
  there with Elizabeth Slayden, not in heaven.
• 36:38
  I mean up there in terms of being one of the best.
• 36:42
  After this series, I agree. I think she's a great actress.
• 36:46
  I don't think she was given consistent writing.
• 36:49
  No, she wasn't, but I don't. Think anybody in the Moffat era
• 36:52
  has given consistent writing to be forever?
• 36:54
  I think it has its highs and it has its lows.
• 36:56
  I think he's it's on. Fire.
• 36:58
  It's on fire. Self confessedly changes the
• 37:02
  shape of Doctor Who every year, though.
• 37:04
  Like, he doesn't ever really settle into a pattern, which is
• 37:07
  probably both a strength and a weakness, right?
• 37:10
  Like, he always keeps it interesting, he's always trying
• 37:12
  new things. But then you're going to prefer
• 37:16
  some parts to others, which is where you are, Dylan, right?
• 37:19
  Yeah, exactly. And so common criticism of RTD
• 37:23
  is that he always did the same season every year, forwards,
• 37:26
  backwards, sideways forwards, but you know, blah blah blah.
• 37:29
  Whereas Moffat does exactly the opposite, and each series is
• 37:33
  different within his period of control.
• 37:36
  And it's interesting the way some people like this, but not
• 37:39
  bad and some people don't, you know?
• 37:41
  Oddly, the season of Moffett's that everyone writes is the one
• 37:45
  that copies the RTD formula, which is 5 so.
• 37:49
  What I would say is, for me, when Steven Moffett gets it
• 37:52
  right, he is the single best writer Doctor Who's ever had.
• 37:55
  I wouldn't disagree with that, I just don't think he got it right
• 37:58
  anywhere near as many times as people seem to think he did.
• 38:03
  And I think we got it right a lot of the times when everybody
• 38:06
  else thought they got it wrong so.
• 38:10
  That's why we keep talking season.
• 38:12
  Five the Christmas special in season.
• 38:15
  Now I'm very pleased that we've got someone coming along now,
• 38:19
  someone to tell these young whippersnappers and to mock all
• 38:23
  of these ridiculous ticks the doctors have in the new series.
• 38:26
  I know it's a bit on the nose, but it's very refreshing the.
• 38:29
  Thing is, you can absolutely imagine Eccleston doing this as
• 38:32
  well. Yeah, like you can imagine him
• 38:34
  delivering these these scenes because the the character even
• 38:38
  from that first series has come on and become such a different
• 38:41
  thing. What does he say about the
• 38:42
  screwdrivers? They're for putting up shelves,
• 38:44
  not weapons or something like that.
• 38:47
  So funny. Really, you want, you want him
• 38:49
  to be clutching his lapels in a sort of Hartnell.
• 38:52
  I'm an old doctor kind of way. You are right though, we've been
• 38:56
  in this forest for ages now, so maybe they've got their big set
• 39:02
  piece at the start and there's a big set piece at the end.
• 39:05
  Yeah, I think they've very smartly gone this is what we can
• 39:09
  afford to do. So the rest you you know we're
• 39:12
  going to blow our budget on the the bookends, but in the it's
• 39:16
  got to be like a Doctor Who episode 3.
• 39:18
  Unfortunately, all. Right, I am going to say it
• 39:20
  again. I'll I'll stop making the
• 39:22
  comparison soon, I promise. But there is non-stop set pieces
• 39:26
  in power of the Doctor. Isn't there like big impressive
• 39:28
  set pieces? I realize I'm being a bit
• 39:31
  negative about this. I should say I had a whale of a
• 39:34
  time rewatching it because I'm being pernickety because there
• 39:38
  are lots of things that irritate me about it.
• 39:40
  But when I put all that aside, it's never not.
• 39:43
  Oh, because we're Doctor Who fans.
• 39:45
  That's why we always accentuate the negative and it.
• 39:47
  And it also wouldn't be a very interesting podcast if we just
• 39:51
  sat there going this is great and this is great and this is.
• 39:53
  That's our Flux podcast, Dylan. Yeah, that's six hours.
• 39:57
  And then the Strictly. As well.
• 39:59
  That sounds great. I must listen to that.
• 40:01
  We do have fun. I mean, I think that Matt Smith
• 40:05
  and David Tennant have wonderful chemistry.
• 40:07
  Yeah, they click instantly. I I understand why for the 60th
• 40:12
  they did something a little different.
• 40:14
  And I understand also Russell not wanted to necessarily repeat
• 40:18
  him what Stephen Moffat did, even though he'd do a lot of
• 40:21
  repeating in this coming seasons that you didn't want to be those
• 40:26
  two because unfortunately they are the obvious 2 that will come
• 40:29
  back. You know, Eccleston's not coming
• 40:31
  back, Capaldi's not coming back. Jodie had just left and was
• 40:35
  having a baby. So it's like, I understand why
• 40:40
  he didn't want to repeat it, but I do think it's a shame Matt
• 40:42
  Smith didn't show up at some point.
• 40:44
  Yeah, I know, I know from the interviews I'm seeing he would
• 40:47
  have loved to have done it. Yeah, it's bizarre.
• 40:51
  Still, I'm sure I'm sure he'll be in Christmas 2026.
• 40:54
  I think that Moffett is savvy enough as well that he realizes
• 40:58
  that Smith is in the zeitgeist at this point.
• 41:00
  He is so popular both here and in America, right?
• 41:05
  And Tennant was always popular. So just highlighting those two,
• 41:09
  that's what's the disc. This was #1 for the week, wasn't
• 41:11
  it? 13 million or something in the
• 41:13
  UK? Like you know what I mean?
• 41:15
  In terms of marketing this. He made all the savvy, creative
• 41:18
  moves. Matt Smith was so popular that
• 41:21
  he didn't want to do another series because he he was off to
• 41:24
  Hollywood. He.
• 41:25
  Was off to make that Terminator movie, wasn't he?
• 41:27
  How what happened with that it? Was one of the worst Terminator
• 41:30
  film films and there are some bad Terminator films.
• 41:33
  I mean visually though this the the the only looking like he did
• 41:37
  in the first Terminator was really good.
• 41:39
  It's just the story was but. It's the moment anybody opens
• 41:42
  their mouth and yeah, you just sort of go, what is this
• 41:45
  dialogue and acting? This scene in the book is one of
• 41:49
  the best written bits of Doctor Who pros you're ever going to
• 41:52
  read, where the idea goes from one doctor to another to
• 41:55
  another. And then the joke of Clara
• 41:57
  coming through door. I mean, it's done very well.
• 42:00
  He's. Done very well, but it's better
• 42:02
  than real book. I mean, he really had a chance
• 42:05
  to take a look at this. He, he had no interest in
• 42:08
  writing a target style novelisation of this and and
• 42:11
  just putting what was on the screen.
• 42:12
  He had so much fun with that book.
• 42:14
  Did we know Matt Smith was leaving by this point?
• 42:18
  I think so. Oh.
• 42:19
  Yeah, it was considered so time of the Doctor.
• 42:23
  I think is. Is the most like the quickest
• 42:27
  turn around of any Doctor Who story.
• 42:29
  It was shot in something like October and it broadcasts on
• 42:32
  Christmas Day. You can tell Dylan.
• 42:34
  Yeah, well the weird, so there's a, there was a sort of 90 minute
• 42:38
  version of it and they thought they'd get more time but the BBC
• 42:41
  were like it had to be an hour, but they didn't get a chance to
• 42:43
  re edit it from scratch. So they had to just re edit the
• 42:46
  version they had, which is why it's such a mess.
• 42:48
  They honest to God you could so badly tell there are people
• 42:51
  under those sheets. It reminds me of that scene from
• 42:54
  the moon base. You know, with the cyber boots
• 42:56
  coming out the bed. Yeah, it's bad.
• 42:58
  And of course, we know that Colin Baker, Peter Davison and
• 43:01
  Sylvester McCoy are under the other sheets.
• 43:03
  Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's.
• 43:05
  That's that's Canon. I mean, the fact that he let
• 43:08
  that go ahead and even went and played with his toys on the
• 43:12
  fire, which doctors were, I mean, it was just glorious,
• 43:15
  wasn't it? Can you imagine anything better
• 43:17
  than being Steven Moffat in 2013?
• 43:22
  It's like, wow, yeah. What?
• 43:25
  At this point, No, he was having a nervous fucking breakdown.
• 43:28
  He said it was the worst time of his life.
• 43:30
  They. Obviously there's good and bad,
• 43:32
  but but being in charge of this and being in the fiveish Doctors
• 43:35
  and making Night of the Doctor and just.
• 43:39
  I couldn't believe that he put in that Doctor Who magazine,
• 43:42
  that he genuinely thinks he had a nervous breakdown during
• 43:45
  making Series 7, that he was just so stressed and so
• 43:49
  overworked. God bless him.
• 43:52
  It should never be that important.
• 43:53
  The job should it Yeah. I think This is why Chipper went
• 43:56
  Nah, we'll do 6 episodes. You know I'm going to have a
• 43:59
  life to. Me no, like I think there was a
• 44:01
  real thing of and it's why the job is so difficult.
• 44:05
  Russell was an absolute machine, especially first time around.
• 44:09
  Like nobody, that whole team, we're just like, we love this
• 44:13
  show, we want to make it as good as we can.
• 44:15
  We want to make loads of it and actually that's not conducive to
• 44:18
  a healthy lifestyle. And as we get more into sort of
• 44:22
  self-care and stuff like that and work life balance, I think
• 44:24
  Chibner was very much like, well, I think I'm going to be
• 44:27
  done by this point because my kids are going to be doing their
• 44:29
  GCS ES. I'd love to make the series
• 44:31
  yearly, but I just don't think it's possible.
• 44:34
  I'm reducing the episode count. It makes it makes total sense
• 44:37
  and I. Mean the the ownership of Doctor
• 44:39
  Who fans as well. It just knows no bounds.
• 44:42
  I remember when he said that in Doctor Who magazine and people
• 44:44
  were going, how dare there be something more important in his
• 44:47
  life than Doctor Who? It's like Russell, Russell T
• 44:50
  Davis was not a good example because he was awake at 4:00 in
• 44:54
  the morning writing stuff. Little yeah, chain smoking,
• 44:57
  little red rimmed eyes. Just that's not a healthy human
• 45:01
  being. You know, yeah, I I also think
• 45:04
  Doctor Who will never be a yearly series ever again.
• 45:07
  I firmly believe that. But that's that's for a
• 45:10
  different. Well, and just how he was
• 45:11
  churning out those spin offs to that standard at the same time
• 45:15
  it's he was a machine. You're right.
• 45:20
  Can I quickly say about Osgood? Yeah.
• 45:23
  Because I think Ingrid Oliver gives a really charming
• 45:26
  performance as that character. But I hate all the quirks.
• 45:30
  I hate the scarf. I It's just too much.
• 45:32
  It's too much. I want to know what happened.
• 45:36
  Why does she not come back? She does the audios, but every
• 45:40
  time units show up now it's it's without Osgood.
• 45:43
  Yeah, it's the Saigon 1, isn't it?
• 45:45
  The last one she does, yeah. But she's always, there's always
• 45:48
  a new scientific advisor. I mean, they've got, they've had
• 45:50
  about 50 during the last two series.
• 45:53
  And it's just like bring I love her.
• 45:55
  I think she's brilliant. Yeah, but I just think it's a
• 45:58
  really likeable performance. Yeah, I don't mind the scarf
• 46:01
  either. And trust me, you need some
• 46:04
  personality when you've got Gemma Redgrave around, you know,
• 46:06
  sucking. She's out of the room.
• 46:10
  Yeah, she's a charisma vampire. She she who?
• 46:14
  Who I believe was in Buffy and Angel and I love.
• 46:18
  Our last two Davis tried to give her a personality by suggesting
• 46:21
  that she loves Davina McCall and for us to fuck one of her
• 46:23
  soldiers. I love this conversion moment of
• 46:26
  Kate where she pukes up. This looks really good.
• 46:29
  And then we never see it again because.
• 46:31
  I know because then you see the costume.
• 46:32
  Oh no. Do you know what it is?
• 46:35
  It's so cumbersome, they can't move in the bloody thing.
• 46:39
  Oh, bless them. I do like the archive are they
• 46:44
  is the vortex manipulator on some film reels.
• 46:50
  There's there's some some film cans.
• 46:52
  It's it's Web of Fear Part 2. It's Dalek.
• 46:55
  In Space Pirates part. 4 Dale's master plan, Yeah.
• 46:59
  Do you remember around this time, obviously the Omni rumour
• 47:02
  was present and people were constantly looking for things in
• 47:05
  the show that were like, oh, that's the number of episodes
• 47:08
  that a rumour to have been fan. They've done this because of
• 47:10
  this story's back. Was this when they were putting
• 47:12
  the TARDIS on all the BBC shows? Do you remember It was on in
• 47:16
  EastEnders? It was on Blue Peter.
• 47:18
  They do it all the fucking time, like when there's something to
• 47:21
  celebrate and it's just like, Oh yeah, how do we celebrate?
• 47:23
  Doctor of the TARDIS is an EastEnders.
• 47:25
  Great. What a celebration.
• 47:27
  That's helpful. Yeah.
• 47:29
  Just because you hate Doctor Who, Dylan, we want to celebrate
• 47:32
  it. All right?
• 47:32
  I was quite happy to see Connie Hawk with that TARDIS.
• 47:35
  I love Doctor Who. I've got a Doctor Who tattoo.
• 47:37
  Connie Hawk, that was the 90s. I'm so out there.
• 47:41
  I don't know who was on Blue Peter in 2013.
• 47:44
  Who does? Who does?
• 47:46
  Oh, we're still in this sale now.
• 47:50
  OK. Also we're talk sort of talking
• 47:51
  about the, the, the implications, you know, pressing
• 47:54
  the button. Yeah, being the man who?
• 47:57
  Has over the years. The man who probably does.
• 48:01
  Yeah, I think the funniest moment is where he goes Bad Wolf
• 48:05
  girl. Thank you.
• 48:06
  Just so the 10th Doctor can go Bad Wolf.
• 48:08
  Did you say it's so Bony, that bit?
• 48:11
  Yeah, Bless. I think I'm going to fight you
• 48:15
  again, though. I think Matt Smith's pretty good
• 48:17
  in this. He's better than he has been,
• 48:19
  but I he'll never be as good as he is in the for in his first
• 48:24
  block for me he has. So much energy.
• 48:26
  I think his best performance is still his best story.
• 48:28
  His first story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:31
  I like that new young doctor. I think it works really well.
• 48:35
  And then by the time we're. Here it can never last.
• 48:37
  I've always got to weigh them down with moral.
• 48:39
  Complexities and he's dressed in he's dressed in the frock coat.
• 48:43
  Yeah, he's dressed in a uniform now.
• 48:45
  It's, you know, he looked, he looked good in the bow tie and
• 48:48
  the the kind of tweed jacket, but did.
• 48:51
  Jodie ever lose her zest? I don't think she did, did she?
• 48:54
  No. No, she's perfect in every way.
• 48:59
  I hope she didn't didn't lose her vest because she did a lot
• 49:02
  of location work and it was often probably quite chilly.
• 49:05
  I noticed you were there with your binoculars though, Ian.
• 49:08
  Well, some. Should we get back to the story?
• 49:12
  Yeah. So we're in this.
• 49:14
  We're in this prison cell. Billy Piper.
• 49:16
  There she is, the 16th Doctor. Do you think it's a good way of
• 49:20
  celebrating Doctor Who to sort of highlight the moment of the
• 49:23
  Doctor where he committed mass genocide?
• 49:25
  Oh. Absolutely.
• 49:27
  It's a very Doctor Who thing to do, isn't it?
• 49:29
  Yeah. It reminds me of the new
• 49:30
  adventures again, you know? Yeah, it's, it's the pit, isn't
• 49:35
  it? Where he destroys that entire
• 49:37
  system of. No, he skipped away at the end
• 49:39
  and I went Oh well, never mind. She had three breasts, 30 years
• 49:45
  younger than me. I.
• 49:47
  Think McCoy could have been in this, you know?
• 49:50
  Yeah, absolutely. At this point.
• 49:51
  Was he? No, I, I yeah, you could have.
• 49:54
  And he's actually the doctor that definitely could have
• 49:57
  fought in the Time War, right? If if he was the one that came
• 50:00
  in the cell door in a minute instead of Clara Dylan, you
• 50:02
  would have juiced in your knickers.
• 50:04
  I would. I would.
• 50:06
  I would, yeah. What could you see McCoy playing
• 50:10
  the The War Doctor role? Look at all the marketing
• 50:13
  opportunities here. They're all throwing their
• 50:16
  different screwdrivers in the air.
• 50:17
  The marketing teams can yes, we're going to do a set of all
• 50:20
  three together. The Day of the Doctor
• 50:23
  Screwdrivers. Yeah.
• 50:26
  I'm sure they did. This is a good gag.
• 50:28
  This is a great gag about resonating the concrete.
• 50:30
  And then Jim Goldman just walks in.
• 50:32
  It goes. It was unlocked.
• 50:34
  Yeah. Do we like the war ducks as
• 50:38
  Sonic screwdriver? It looks a bit like a Biro.
• 50:42
  Well, it's it's the handle of the old series one, but.
• 50:45
  Then yeah. Azuzi End.
• 50:50
  I mean, it's fine. It's got to look a little bit
• 50:51
  underwhelming compared to the two recent screwdrivers.
• 50:55
  I'm asking this as a genuine question.
• 50:57
  Yeah, not, not just like, is he a bit embarrassed by the classic
• 51:00
  series? Who, Moffett.
• 51:03
  Yeah, I think he's got that fan guilt, hasn't he?
• 51:06
  Of like, oh, it wasn't as good as it should have been back in
• 51:10
  the day. Because like, power really is
• 51:13
  going for warts and all. Let's just throw it all in.
• 51:16
  And even Sophie Aldridge acting. Let's just throw it all in and
• 51:20
  see what happens. I also think by the time of
• 51:23
  Power of the Doctor, the series has sort of earned it, and it
• 51:26
  thinks there's a possibility it might be the end of that
• 51:31
  iteration of the show, so. Which it was.
• 51:34
  Yeah, yeah. And I don't.
• 51:35
  Yeah. I don't think there was ever a
• 51:38
  doubt there would have been a 60th anniversary special of some
• 51:40
  sort by somebody. But genuinely, like in terms of
• 51:45
  the future of the show, they were obviously talking to
• 51:47
  streamers and stuff like that. But yeah, there's a chance the
• 51:50
  show could have gone away for a couple of years, which shame it
• 51:52
  didn't in retrospect, but well. You know I can I can wreck on
• 51:57
  it. So in my in my head cannon,
• 51:59
  Jodie still standing on Dirdle door Cuts are black, cuts are
• 52:04
  black and then great, fine, lovely.
• 52:08
  I fixed Doctor Who now what's going on here?
• 52:11
  Osgood's found some spaghetti under a sheet.
• 52:16
  Oh my word. I mean, do you remember in
• 52:19
  terrorist icons when they were in these things?
• 52:21
  Yeah, I think you could have done something really cool with
• 52:24
  this though. You know, like in Aliens where
• 52:25
  they're trapped in the hive and they're like all sort of
• 52:27
  crystallised. Yeah, there should.
• 52:30
  Have been what should be recently, you know, Star Trek,
• 52:34
  strange new wells when they were captured by the Gorn, and they
• 52:37
  were all put inside these sort of incubation chambers.
• 52:39
  And it really looks properly organic.
• 52:42
  And people's faces were being melted off on things.
• 52:44
  It was really scary. Yeah, it's it's very family
• 52:48
  friendly, as it probably should be here.
• 52:51
  Oh, this Saigon layer looks terrible.
• 52:54
  Look at that. It looks like a child's
• 52:58
  electronic drum kit. Well, and they just shot it and
• 53:01
  that's high wherever they are in some weird case.
• 53:04
  Down a well or something. You can imagine that the script
• 53:09
  probably said massive Zygon spaceship and they went you can
• 53:12
  have a time war or Zygon spaceship, spaceship and the
• 53:15
  like. Put it in the corner of the
• 53:16
  castle. Yeah.
• 53:18
  I can't believe we're halfway through already.
• 53:20
  I mean, it's that sort of that by though, yeah.
• 53:24
  It's. You know, it's very good.
• 53:26
  We're only able to look at this and sort of turn our noses up at
• 53:30
  parts of it because of what's come afterwards.
• 53:32
  I don't know if you noticed there, Ian.
• 53:34
  Did you see the fairy lights that were hanging off of the
• 53:37
  painting? Look.
• 53:38
  No, I missed. I missed.
• 53:39
  Oh. It's the fairy lights from
• 53:41
  Battlefield. Oh.
• 53:43
  No. Oh, come on, Stephen.
• 53:46
  You should have sort of put an effect over those.
• 53:48
  I think that's what, a time lash effect, you know, sort of
• 53:51
  smudge. Yeah.
• 53:52
  Bit of tinsel. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:55
  Just the cuppa soup analogy actually work.
• 53:59
  What is the cul soup analogy? Well, if they're stored in a
• 54:02
  painting like a cuppa soup, yeah.
• 54:04
  Who? Stores their cuppa soup in a
• 54:06
  painting. What sort of brick does that?
• 54:09
  It's like that. It's like what?
• 54:11
  So it's been you're saying they're sort of freeze dried in
• 54:14
  there. I don't really know he's.
• 54:15
  Saying if you pour water over a painting, you get kicked, you're
• 54:20
  in, you're in, you're in the stock oil protest.
• 54:23
  You know how people often sort of compare Steven Moffett and
• 54:25
  Douglas Adams? I think Douglas Adams would have
• 54:27
  thought of a more artful metaphor, don't you?
• 54:31
  He would, but he would have taken him about 8 years to do it
• 54:33
  and we would have been celebrating the anniversary two
• 54:36
  years after the deadline. Adam's a smile.
• 54:40
  He only writes by the script a year.
• 54:41
  You know, like you can be a genius writing one a year.
• 54:45
  Well, yeah, he's, he's in a slightly different category, I
• 54:48
  would argue. Oh, I've never noticed that
• 54:51
  before, but oh. We just need to get rid of the
• 54:53
  Queen now, man. She's just holding things up.
• 54:57
  Yeah, it's it's less entertaining now than it is.
• 55:00
  Fuck then is that the idea that him, her and the 10th Doctor?
• 55:04
  Yeah, I think that's why she shot the arrow in at the end of
• 55:07
  the Shakespeare code. So is his seed in her then?
• 55:11
  Well, do you think the Doctor Jizz's?
• 55:15
  Well, we have a red lung Barrow yet, so we're not too sure.
• 55:19
  The Doctor Jizz's was the follow up to the Doctor Dancers.
• 55:25
  And then and then the final part is the doctor wakes up really
• 55:28
  early and sneaks off before she gets up.
• 55:30
  Yeah, but leaves a coffee and a pastry.
• 55:33
  Yes, exactly I'm. Just wondering if the Royal Lion
• 55:37
  has got Time Lord DNA in it, that's all.
• 55:39
  Well, pretty so true. Yeah, he's quirky.
• 55:46
  What about Margaret? Jesus Christ.
• 55:49
  So what's? It like being a Time Lord.
• 55:51
  Well, I never break into a sweat and I often have a Peter and
• 55:55
  Peter, expressed Woking. Did you sleep with that underage
• 55:58
  girl? No, I went forward in time and
• 56:01
  slept with her when she was 62. Yeah, and the.
• 56:04
  Doctor. I do not like this console room
• 56:07
  that the ward doctors got. What is going on?
• 56:11
  That's terrible. We're in the Doctor Who
• 56:13
  experience now, aren't we? Yeah.
• 56:15
  Is it really? The set wasn't standing and they
• 56:17
  have that what the version of it in the Doctor Who experience,
• 56:20
  it's much smaller. It's why we never see a big wide
• 56:22
  of the tenant. They absolutely, because they do
• 56:27
  it in Hell Bend, right? That they should have built the
• 56:30
  classic console. That would have been a wonderful
• 56:32
  kiss to the past. I'm glad we get there in Hell
• 56:35
  Bend. I've got a feeling the script
• 56:38
  initially said that it was the classic console and they
• 56:40
  couldn't afford it. But they built it for an
• 56:44
  adventure in Time and Space, which came out at this time.
• 56:48
  You're not wrong. Maybe.
• 56:49
  They didn't think about it, just like when they were shooting
• 56:53
  Night of the Doctor, they didn't think maybe we could just get
• 56:56
  Paul McGann to shoot his 10 second cameo in the main story.
• 57:02
  Like just get get an extra bit of McGann out of a.
• 57:06
  Yeah. What are the cycles actually
• 57:08
  trying to achieve? I've got no idea.
• 57:11
  We're spending a lot of time with them.
• 57:12
  If you don't know, do. They want to like kill everyone
• 57:17
  and have the earth because that's what most aliens seem to
• 57:20
  want. Has Spin Off Media done the
• 57:23
  story with Mike Yates and Sarah Kingdom that the photograph of
• 57:27
  the wall exists on the wall of? This place?
• 57:29
  Not currently, no. We've had both of them in big
• 57:33
  finishes, but not together. It sounds it sounds like a
• 57:36
  missed opportunity to me. We've got a countdown, folks.
• 57:39
  Here comes the suspense. Well, we've got 5 minutes here,
• 57:42
  so there's no great sense of urgency.
• 57:45
  Actually, I think Gemma Redgrave does have a bit of passion in
• 57:48
  this scene. Actually cancel the detonation.
• 57:52
  Yeah, this is just before she retires from acting.
• 57:55
  OK, I'm going to give it one last heft before I go.
• 57:59
  She's she's better when. She plays.
• 58:01
  There's your favorite Dylan Chameleon.
• 58:04
  Oh, the Brig Tegan. Oh.
• 58:07
  Yeah, but that's all you're getting.
• 58:08
  All right, just a couple of on the wall.
• 58:11
  BBC publicity material. In the book he has the nerve to
• 58:16
  go on about the cushion movies, doesn't.
• 58:17
  He, I know he was going to do that in the episode, he said
• 58:19
  before I wrote the book, it was he was going to do it, but they
• 58:22
  couldn't get the clearance to use.
• 58:24
  The posters bucker it. In the episode.
• 58:28
  OK, because it was so funny they he sort of manages to sort out
• 58:32
  the piece with the Zygons. And then the plot goes, right
• 58:35
  now we're going to talk about Gallifrey again.
• 58:37
  You know, I just don't, I don't know if it's as delicately
• 58:41
  plotted because it does seem to sort of bounce between one plot
• 58:44
  and another and they're not linked.
• 58:46
  Somebody said that it's trying to do all the types of Doctor
• 58:50
  Who at once, which I kind of get.
• 58:54
  But yeah, I mean, I'm not going to in any way say The Power of
• 58:57
  the Doctor is a sophisticated plot.
• 58:59
  I mean, it's doing 5 million things in that story and going
• 59:03
  look over there. So I hope it doesn't know it's
• 59:05
  just forgotten about what's over there.
• 59:09
  I do love that console room, though.
• 59:11
  I think the the the late Matt Smith slash Peter Capaldi
• 59:15
  console, that's the best, yeah. You know what, I love that
• 59:18
  painting so much. The three D1.
• 59:19
  It just reminds me of Dimensions in Time so much.
• 59:24
  I wonder if I could get a replica of it put in my lounge.
• 59:28
  What's that? The painting?
• 59:29
  Yeah. Oh, I'm sure we could manage
• 59:31
  that. You.
• 59:32
  Know I reckon, I reckon someone on it see must be knocking them
• 59:35
  out. I also love the fact that nobody
• 59:38
  went. Well, the patents either called
• 59:41
  Gallifrey Falls or no more Nobody went.
• 59:43
  Oh, maybe it's both of them. Yeah, maybe it's a run on
• 59:47
  Gallifrey. Falls, have you noticed that
• 59:48
  there's the spinning tapes from the 70s equipment behind them
• 59:52
  there? Wonderful.
• 59:53
  What are they doing? Are they recording it?
• 59:55
  Are they're going to put this out as a podcast when they've
• 59:57
  saved the world? It's the most sophisticated
• 59:59
  technology you can get, Ian. They spin in reels.
• 1:00:02
  Absolutely. Oh, here we go.
• 1:00:05
  And suddenly they're all here inside the painting.
• 1:00:09
  And they were slagging off the ward.
• 1:00:11
  Doctor was slagging off them, pointing their sonnet
• 1:00:13
  screwdrivers earlier. And now about.
• 1:00:14
  To do the same, here we go. That's very cool.
• 1:00:22
  And then we get the dreadful slow motion shot because they've
• 1:00:26
  shot it on a camera that doesn't do slow frame rates and decided
• 1:00:30
  to slow it down later. So oh, this bit here where they
• 1:00:33
  walk in. I mean, I didn't even notice if
• 1:00:36
  I'm honest. It looks so bad it makes my
• 1:00:40
  inner fan cringe and my professional.
• 1:00:44
  Is it though, a situation where you know, you understand
• 1:00:47
  television, you know is? Where most people won't have
• 1:00:49
  given a fuck. I think there is a bit of that,
• 1:00:52
  but I'd be mortified if I was responsible for something like
• 1:00:54
  that and I'm responsible for some terrible decisions in
• 1:00:56
  television. Gemma Redgrave, he goes.
• 1:00:58
  What in the name of sanity are you doing?
• 1:01:01
  Why are you giving a performance?
• 1:01:04
  We're used to you being more sonambulistic than this, she
• 1:01:08
  goes. I'm so sorry.
• 1:01:09
  I'll just tone it down a little bit.
• 1:01:11
  It's because it's the Zygon. It's not.
• 1:01:13
  It's not Gemma Redgrove. 5 minute countdown is a bit long,
• 1:01:17
  you know, I feel as if this countdown has been going on for
• 1:01:19
  about 15 minutes at this rate. Oh now look, Bara, who's done
• 1:01:25
  Soddle is now about to get some moments in a minute where she
• 1:01:28
  gets to go and talk to the War Doctor and actually empathise
• 1:01:32
  with him, which is very nice. Now I do wonder about that wall.
• 1:01:36
  Here we are, great moments of Doctor Who, 3 doctors together
• 1:01:39
  and all I'm thinking about is that fucking wall but with so
• 1:01:42
  many photos from Doctor Who's. Oh, it's that trick.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah, so many photos from Doctor Who's past existing.
• 1:01:48
  Why did they feel the need to badly see badly?
• 1:01:51
  Photoshop a couple of them. Yeah, but I mean, you could say
• 1:01:55
  that about those dreadful shots in rows, you know, of Chris
• 1:01:59
  Ferguson. Badly.
• 1:02:01
  But their plot points, Somebody was paid to put the shot of
• 1:02:08
  Sarah Kingdom and whoever. I always see what you're saying
• 1:02:12
  well, because then it will get people asking the questions like
• 1:02:14
  you did earlier. We've seen that story.
• 1:02:17
  It was all over the papers the next day.
• 1:02:19
  Now where's the line here between the two old schools?
• 1:02:21
  Oh yeah, right in the middle. Oh, actually, it's nice that
• 1:02:27
  they follow. I mean, I don't, I hate that
• 1:02:28
  dismal Zygon 2 parter in Series 9.
• 1:02:31
  It's so miserable. But I do like the fact that they
• 1:02:33
  follow up on this stuff. Yeah, me too.
• 1:02:39
  Luke Malloy said the Zygon 2 parter would have been better if
• 1:02:42
  it was Silorians, and I can't help but agree.
• 1:02:45
  Yeah. Totally.
• 1:02:47
  I just, and that was, it was like a really clumsy kind of war
• 1:02:50
  invasion of Iraq analogy. And it just, it was who is it
• 1:02:54
  being aimed at? You know why are you telling?
• 1:02:58
  Don't trust the asylum seekers, they're going to attack you all.
• 1:03:01
  You know, I think it was written by the Tories.
• 1:03:04
  Nigel wrote it. And and once again, they're
• 1:03:07
  shooting the the Zygons in broad daylight and they just look
• 1:03:10
  shit. It's a bit where he's going out
• 1:03:12
  of that shop into that sort of shopping precinct.
• 1:03:15
  It's just terrible. There's lots of nice close-ups
• 1:03:18
  of Jenna Cobleman here though, so.
• 1:03:21
  I hear that heterosexual men do not object to those.
• 1:03:25
  So we don't object to it. I've got no problem with it at
• 1:03:27
  all. I've got no beef.
• 1:03:29
  I object to the close-ups on John Hurt, though I'm afraid,
• 1:03:32
  and his grizzly face. You don't like a wrinkly old
• 1:03:35
  gentleman? He's smoked a bit of tobacco in
• 1:03:38
  his life, hasn't he? I think, sure, he's had a good
• 1:03:40
  life and drunk some whiskey, yeah.
• 1:03:42
  He. Smokes up until his death I
• 1:03:44
  think. Good man, so did my mum.
• 1:03:47
  Don't worry, she got her diagnosis.
• 1:03:51
  Get me 20 Rothmans now. That's my I can't wait for that,
• 1:03:54
  that Dennis Potter moment where someone tells you, yeah mate, we
• 1:03:58
  can't do anything. You've got about 3 weeks left.
• 1:04:01
  I'm going to be straight down the garage.
• 1:04:02
  I'll have 20 moulder lights. What the hell, my fucking love
• 1:04:07
  is batter jacket. That leather jacket, it's so
• 1:04:10
  cool. Did you get your?
• 1:04:14
  Did you get your ward doctor action figure?
• 1:04:17
  Well, we've got a whole sort of box of action figures around
• 1:04:20
  here. There probably is 1 have.
• 1:04:21
  You got a curator. No, but I really think I might.
• 1:04:27
  Sorry. Do I have one?
• 1:04:30
  Who knows? Oh, it's that bit where he goes
• 1:04:34
  where it's just Tom. It is.
• 1:04:36
  No, sorry. Go on, dude.
• 1:04:39
  When the Tom Baker appears, and I know that we're coming to that
• 1:04:43
  later, but there is a lot of reaction videos from the time on
• 1:04:47
  the Internet of new series fans going, oh, it's the first Doctor
• 1:04:51
  because that nobody really knows who he is because that why would
• 1:04:56
  you, you know, not everybody who became obsessed with Doctor Who
• 1:04:59
  in 2005 went and watched classic Doctor Who do.
• 1:05:03
  You know what's hot, right, you say about reaction videos?
• 1:05:05
  Yeah, I don't. I very rarely cry at Doctor Who.
• 1:05:08
  It doesn't really move me. But watching people reacting to
• 1:05:12
  certain moments, it just really sets me off.
• 1:05:15
  There's one fella called Farewell who does loads of
• 1:05:18
  different shows. A guy out in America and when he
• 1:05:20
  watched this I was howling with tears.
• 1:05:24
  Watching him falling apart watching this, it's a very odd
• 1:05:29
  thing. Reaction videos.
• 1:05:29
  I don't really know why they exist but I just love them.
• 1:05:33
  Yeah, I know. They're great.
• 1:05:34
  Oh, here's the slow motion kitties again.
• 1:05:36
  That's he's going to press the button.
• 1:05:39
  Reaction videos exist because we want to relive those exciting
• 1:05:42
  times when this was new to us. I think it's a bit of sort of
• 1:05:45
  confirmation bias as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  Yeah. When people say, you know, it's
• 1:05:50
  not what I get from Mark Sarah, you know, a non Doctor Who fan,
• 1:05:53
  when she says Doctor Who's great, I'm like, yeah, see, even
• 1:05:57
  someone who don't like it thinks it's great.
• 1:05:59
  Wonder what she'll think of this one.
• 1:06:02
  Well. I know.
• 1:06:05
  I think she'll like it. She'll actually likes the
• 1:06:06
  Tennant. Why are we focusing on John
• 1:06:08
  Hurt's ear when Billy Piper's right in the shot?
• 1:06:11
  That was a really curious focus pull there.
• 1:06:14
  So even here you're led to believe that the two Doctors are
• 1:06:17
  going to show up and we're going to do the bit from Fires a
• 1:06:21
  Pompeii. You know where Donna says I'm
• 1:06:22
  going to push the button with you?
• 1:06:25
  I do. I think this is the 11th
• 1:06:27
  Doctor's finest moment where he goes, No, fuck that, I thought.
• 1:06:30
  I don't care if I've already experienced it, I'm going to
• 1:06:32
  change it. Because that is the Doctor,
• 1:06:36
  right? The Doctor's not a mass
• 1:06:37
  murderer. Well, Colin.
• 1:06:39
  What what you know copper suit and what have you I.
• 1:06:44
  Do. I do hate the resolution of the
• 1:06:47
  Time War being that a bunch of Dalek ships blow.
• 1:06:51
  Themselves up, yeah. Even Russell C Davis says when.
• 1:06:54
  It's so funny when he said it to him.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah, it's like, and it doesn't need to be much more.
• 1:07:01
  It's like, oh, there's a. He writes it in the book.
• 1:07:07
  He says there is. I think Russell actually
• 1:07:10
  prompted that. He says there's a huge temporal
• 1:07:15
  wave that takes out every Dalek ship.
• 1:07:17
  Perfect. Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  What it does look like is that the Daleks are all terrible
• 1:07:22
  shots, and they all went for each other.
• 1:07:24
  Yeah. I do.
• 1:07:28
  I do think that Red Diamond at the top looks a little shoddy as
• 1:07:32
  well. I lied.
• 1:07:33
  The Keats of time looked more impressive, didn't it?
• 1:07:36
  That was form plastic. But I must say, the acting in
• 1:07:41
  this scene is terrific. Agreed.
• 1:07:45
  Yeah. David Tennant's missed 1 little
• 1:07:48
  hair when he was shaving that it's just.
• 1:07:51
  Oh, that's annoying. What's so interesting is Jenna
• 1:07:54
  Coleman, without a single line, is stealing the scene, just
• 1:07:58
  observing them and crying. I never forget that bit in
• 1:08:03
  Akaten. You know, where he's screaming
• 1:08:06
  his head off and then she comes on in and under plays him and
• 1:08:11
  her bit is so moving in comparison to his bit.
• 1:08:15
  She is very, very good. I've said that very often.
• 1:08:18
  She's one of those people who's slightly too good for Doctor
• 1:08:22
  Who, if we're being honest. Well, that's a bit at the end.
• 1:08:24
  To kill the moon. That always gets me.
• 1:08:26
  That's astonishing, that moment. Well, what's going on here now?
• 1:08:32
  Why are they all on Gallifrey? Oh, it's a projection.
• 1:08:36
  Oh, God. Slow motion.
• 1:08:37
  Children running past them isn't the only way we can suggest the
• 1:08:41
  horror of the time. War is easy, winks.
• 1:08:44
  That's the well, I don't know what face David Tennant was
• 1:08:46
  doing. Look at this.
• 1:08:47
  He looks like Oh. But Jenna's doing the work here
• 1:08:52
  though. Yeah.
• 1:08:53
  Oh no, look at that bit of green screen.
• 1:08:55
  Oh no please. That is.
• 1:08:59
  That is Starbeast bad, that is. Yeah, we'll get there.
• 1:09:04
  We will speak for yourself. Either I destroy my own people
• 1:09:07
  or let the universe burn. Let it burn.
• 1:09:10
  Yeah. You know, look at those slow
• 1:09:12
  motion children. Come on.
• 1:09:14
  Come on, look, just just let it burn.
• 1:09:16
  Otherwise, one day there'll be a shooty gut where era and.
• 1:09:22
  He could now be though, could he?
• 1:09:23
  Moffat put in in more brood and a damned all these horrible
• 1:09:26
  Kitty winks that would have encouraged me to press the
• 1:09:30
  button more. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:36
  Dylan, how do they do this sort of slow motion?
• 1:09:38
  Ash, I think it looks fabulous. Well, the whole thing's in slow
• 1:09:41
  motion. Oh well, yeah.
• 1:09:45
  They get they get special slow motion ash and everyone else
• 1:09:48
  acts normally, but the ash is going.
• 1:09:51
  To the trade. I'm not saying a word anymore.
• 1:09:55
  You 2 are so rude. Oh, the children are alive and
• 1:09:59
  existing in tubes. The Time Lord bunting is there.
• 1:10:03
  Great, it's Llamas, Tide or whatever the gallery.
• 1:10:06
  Oh this is too much for me. Though never cruel or coward.
• 1:10:09
  They don't quote terrorist. Oh others, the colour of aliens
• 1:10:13
  is good. You should have said it.
• 1:10:16
  Yeah. Oh, look at the kids coming out
• 1:10:18
  into the light, blinking into this.
• 1:10:20
  A child looks up to the sky. Oh God.
• 1:10:23
  So those children clearly weren't loomed, were they?
• 1:10:26
  No, no, no. So.
• 1:10:29
  Oh, oh, Billy, they look. So hot in that light she looks
• 1:10:32
  like. She's a member of Aerosmith in
• 1:10:34
  that lighting, and we're not. Actually suggesting, fellas,
• 1:10:39
  that we go back and change this podcast that we've done today.
• 1:10:44
  So there's three doctors on the screen.
• 1:10:46
  There's three of us, But which ones?
• 1:10:47
  Who can I be Matt Smith? I can be Matt Smith.
• 1:10:50
  I can be Matt Smith. Excellent.
• 1:10:52
  I'll tell you what. Oh, for sure.
• 1:10:54
  The Mockney goons. Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  He slaps his penis out almost as much as I do.
• 1:11:00
  Or as John Barrowman does. I'll tell you what I'll do.
• 1:11:04
  I shall go back in time and change.
• 1:11:07
  Fly me to the moon so you don't have to experience that.
• 1:11:09
  All right. Perfect, he's saying.
• 1:11:11
  That was an atrocity on the same level as the destruction of.
• 1:11:15
  Killing all those slow motion children.
• 1:11:17
  Probably, yeah. No.
• 1:11:20
  You're right. Now we're heading towards.
• 1:11:21
  We're heading towards one of the most exciting moments in the
• 1:11:24
  history of Doctor Who. Yes, we are.
• 1:11:27
  This is never not thrilling when they get stop jumping around
• 1:11:32
  David Tennant. Dylan, you don't mean all 13 of
• 1:11:36
  them. I do, and that's exactly what I
• 1:11:38
  mean, that it was the greatest moment of my life at that.
• 1:11:41
  Point it was. It was.
• 1:11:43
  Bad Wolf producer I Could Kiss You.
• 1:11:47
  Bad Wolf. The sky trenches holding.
• 1:11:53
  My God, that sounds like a great Star Wars episode.
• 1:11:58
  Oh, there you go, he says it. They could destroy each other in
• 1:12:00
  a crossfire. Because they're a bit stupid.
• 1:12:05
  And we could put the planet into one of those paintings.
• 1:12:10
  Exactly like a painting. Does someone say cuppa soup?
• 1:12:14
  Did they say cuppa soup? Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  No, possibly not in this scene, but Tennant.
• 1:12:21
  Smile man, he's so beautiful. Early on in but Stephen Moffett
• 1:12:26
  was asked about this. He said it's all about
• 1:12:27
  paintings, but you might as well have said it's all about cuppa
• 1:12:29
  soups. Yeah.
• 1:12:32
  Do you know what? I don't think Peter Capaldi has
• 1:12:34
  ever looked more terrifying than his eyes in a minute.
• 1:12:36
  When they come up on the screen, this is the Doctor speaking.
• 1:12:43
  Also the Doctor speaking. Standby.
• 1:12:47
  How am I doing? It's.
• 1:12:48
  Very good, yeah. Better than Jacob Dudman.
• 1:12:51
  Who does the dead doctors then? William Hartnell, Patrick
• 1:12:55
  Troughton and John Perry. Well, the only Troughton, no,
• 1:13:01
  sorry, only Hartnell speaks. The rest is it's all just lines
• 1:13:04
  from the show. Is it Stephen Noonan?
• 1:13:06
  No, it's John Gillior or something like that.
• 1:13:11
  That was pretty good, I have to say.
• 1:13:13
  Oh, he did the nothing at the end of the lane, didn't he?
• 1:13:16
  The animation, yeah. But all the lads are coming.
• 1:13:22
  Have they still got Tennant TARDIS up then?
• 1:13:25
  No, it's the one at the. Oh, is he at that one?
• 1:13:29
  OK, They kept it for the for the doctor's wife though, didn't
• 1:13:33
  they? They kept it for a year.
• 1:13:40
  I'm just wondering. Yeah, we're always absolute
• 1:13:43
  reverence. We're all just sitting here
• 1:13:44
  waiting together. We try and be critical.
• 1:13:46
  We try and. We're just waiting for some
• 1:13:48
  stock footage. I'm going to make the
• 1:13:49
  comparisons to them. Was it as thrilling as them on
• 1:13:52
  the rock or is this more thrilling?
• 1:13:55
  They're both just as thrilling in different ways.
• 1:13:58
  This is thrilling because it's the series probably
• 1:14:00
  acknowledging its past. When there was an enormous close
• 1:14:03
  up of Colin hamming it up in power, the Doctor, I mean, that
• 1:14:06
  was the highlight of New Who for me, yeah.
• 1:14:09
  Exactly. Here we go.
• 1:14:12
  The War Council of Galleries. Millions.
• 1:14:15
  Yeah. Hello.
• 1:14:18
  Right, stand by. Loads of Tardises there's.
• 1:14:22
  Paul, Colin, What does Colin say?
• 1:14:24
  I think he just goes oh I log onto those coordinates.
• 1:14:29
  There's some poor runner that's had to sit through classic
• 1:14:32
  Doctor Who to find something remotely suitable for them to
• 1:14:34
  say. Yeah, and they've used two
• 1:14:37
  different. Oh my God.
• 1:14:39
  Peter coupled his eyes. Yeah.
• 1:14:43
  What a day. Oh, there's Peter, Dave, there's
• 1:14:45
  Paul McGann. Sorry.
• 1:14:46
  There's brilliant no McCoy without Jacket.
• 1:14:49
  Was everybody in the cinema going woo when this was
• 1:14:53
  happening? It was more a than a woo.
• 1:14:56
  Yeah, we weren't quite at that woo stage.
• 1:14:59
  Was that Tom? No, no, I don't think people
• 1:15:03
  wooed in the cinemas back then. There was a smattering of
• 1:15:05
  applause in places. I was at the Excel, you know,
• 1:15:09
  and everyone was screaming the Reds off at the end, Yeah.
• 1:15:11
  No I didn't. I was at the Excel in the day,
• 1:15:14
  but I just did. I wanted to see it in 3D.
• 1:15:15
  No, I'm not lying when I say this.
• 1:15:18
  That bit at the end of the reality War where Jodie turned
• 1:15:20
  up the cinema in London erupted. Erupted.
• 1:15:24
  Because the proper Doctor Who was back.
• 1:15:26
  Yeah, the Doctor, the character we've known and loved for 60
• 1:15:30
  years, was back on TV. So let's just get this straight.
• 1:15:34
  So Gallifrey has been sort of super compressed and put inside
• 1:15:37
  this painting. Like a cup of soup.
• 1:15:39
  Yeah, like a cup of soup. And then all of those Dalek
• 1:15:42
  ships shot at each other and blew each other up out of
• 1:15:46
  existence. Every single Dalek.
• 1:15:48
  Yeah, perfect, perfect. Very convenient.
• 1:15:51
  Sure. Well, how neat not.
• 1:15:54
  Exactly. I've just thought of something.
• 1:15:55
  If we're turning Gallifrey into a cuppa soup, could we do a
• 1:15:59
  story called maybe the Croutons where there are these robots?
• 1:16:04
  No, go with it. And they and here you.
• 1:16:09
  Are what is the blandest sort of cup of soup you can have.
• 1:16:12
  Chicken mushroom, something like that.
• 1:16:14
  What gallery? Tomato.
• 1:16:16
  Tomato. Soup.
• 1:16:17
  Tomato. Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Where does the wall in this in this gallery show up again?
• 1:16:23
  That's a good question. Hang on a minute.
• 1:16:26
  What? What wall?
• 1:16:28
  You'll see it's it's sort of hex.
• 1:16:30
  Oh, I. Don't know, tell me.
• 1:16:32
  It shows up in what, twice upon a time in the 1st Doctor's
• 1:16:38
  TARDIS? Is one of the walls in there?
• 1:16:40
  I. Wondered.
• 1:16:41
  I don't watch that again, so I wouldn't have known that.
• 1:16:44
  I don't watch that again. Is that like a life statement?
• 1:16:47
  I don't watch that again. It's literally the new episode
• 1:16:51
  that wasn't supposed to exist and you.
• 1:16:53
  Can tell it's it's on my list. Oh, I do love the fact, though,
• 1:16:59
  that grizzly old John Hur, he's so happy now.
• 1:17:02
  He didn't have to make that terrible choice.
• 1:17:04
  Yeah. But he's going to forget, isn't
• 1:17:06
  he, when he becomes Chris Bergenston?
• 1:17:08
  Yeah. So you say we went for all of
• 1:17:10
  that angst in series one to seven for nothing.
• 1:17:14
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sort of retroactive
• 1:17:18
  rewriting you can get behind. Yeah, I'll, I'll go, I'll go for
• 1:17:21
  it. It works.
• 1:17:22
  It works in the context of the story, and Doctor Who can fuck
• 1:17:25
  with its own cannon all at once is constantly rewriting.
• 1:17:28
  It Did you notice how that gust of wind from the TARDIS, they
• 1:17:30
  almost blew up Jenna Coleman's skirt?
• 1:17:33
  I did. I bet you did.
• 1:17:36
  We're about to get a cameo from Christopher Austin's eyes.
• 1:17:41
  So he allowed this to happen? Yeah.
• 1:17:43
  He didn't. He didn't, I mean.
• 1:17:45
  He couldn't allow it. He couldn't stop it.
• 1:17:49
  They didn't use enough of his. Light because his existing
• 1:17:51
  footage of him. Yeah, and also Ecclestone
• 1:17:55
  Moffett was like, I won't do the full transformation because it
• 1:17:59
  would be rude to Chris, who said he didn't want to be in it.
• 1:18:02
  Yeah. But it's enough for us to go, oh
• 1:18:06
  shit, we've cut away. OK, Actually, do you know I'm
• 1:18:14
  going to sound quite mean now when I think about all those
• 1:18:18
  treats in power? You are a picture changed in
• 1:18:20
  this, aren't you? A little bit, little bit.
• 1:18:23
  Like that, that climax is amazing, yeah.
• 1:18:26
  And, and it does feel like a triumphant moment, but it's
• 1:18:30
  like, compared to like the candy that's been given out throughout
• 1:18:33
  Power of the Doctor. Is it Does this feels like
• 1:18:41
  thematically closer to classic who and power is much more
• 1:18:45
  representative of like I guess the last 10 years have knew who.
• 1:18:48
  Don't get me wrong, Ian, it's a fucking mess.
• 1:18:50
  That's great. So, I mean, it's, Oh yeah, it's
• 1:18:52
  gold, but it's it's overloaded and indulgent.
• 1:18:56
  It really is. And don't think about the plot
• 1:18:58
  too much because it doesn't make a.
• 1:19:02
  Lot of sense why would he send me a Russian towel?
• 1:19:04
  I mean, OK. Right, so the other doctors are
• 1:19:10
  fucked off and that's it. No, no more doctors here.
• 1:19:12
  Excellent. That's the end of the the
• 1:19:15
  special then there'll be no more multi doctors.
• 1:19:18
  We've got California back, you know I can't.
• 1:19:20
  Imagine anything good's going to happen happen here.
• 1:19:24
  We've essentially wiped out series one to seven by bringing
• 1:19:26
  back, haven't we? I would love to see the rushes
• 1:19:32
  from the Tom Baker day. Yeah, I bet there was some
• 1:19:37
  juicy. He didn't have a good day
• 1:19:38
  though, did he? He doesn't.
• 1:19:41
  Well. They made a dreadful mistake of
• 1:19:44
  driving him there to keep him a secret.
• 1:19:46
  Driving him there at 4:00 in the morning just put him in a hotel
• 1:19:49
  outside of Cardiff. Yeah.
• 1:19:51
  He's a fucking old man, Yeah, picking him up at 4:00 in the.
• 1:19:54
  Morning I'm I'm not that old and I'm no good at 4:00 in the
• 1:19:57
  morning, which is especially when my cat wakes me up.
• 1:20:00
  When she goes in and he just sits down, we should have known
• 1:20:02
  someone of us coming out, right? They normally would go together.
• 1:20:06
  Yeah. Was it right just to do?
• 1:20:08
  Tom Oh, it's wonderful. Come on, Even I can't criticize
• 1:20:11
  this moment. No, no, it's, it is wonderful,
• 1:20:13
  but I mean, are we shortchanged by not getting the others some
• 1:20:17
  way somehow? You'll get them eventually.
• 1:20:19
  I can see both sides of that argument, yeah.
• 1:20:23
  I think it's. Perfect Tom is the classic
• 1:20:25
  Doctor. Isn't Tom is Tom is to classic
• 1:20:28
  Hey, what tenant is to to knew who so.
• 1:20:32
  I agree, I'm not criticizing, it's just a just a question.
• 1:20:36
  If Colin had waddled in, I think everyone, My God, who's that?
• 1:20:39
  Yeah, who's that? Just the old favourites.
• 1:20:43
  I like the fact that he rubs it in as well.
• 1:20:48
  Of course, eventually Colin Baker does become the curator,
• 1:20:51
  doesn't it? He does.
• 1:20:53
  Eventually Colin becomes everyone.
• 1:20:55
  A big finish, though, let's be honest, he'll.
• 1:20:57
  Be playing a soon. What's amazing to look at this
• 1:21:00
  now is to look at Tom Baker in this and think he's still alive
• 1:21:04
  now. I know at no, at no point during
• 1:21:08
  this did anybody think he'd be around for the 60th anniversary.
• 1:21:11
  Or beyond. I mean, he does look like, you
• 1:21:14
  know, Mum rather than ever living now, but.
• 1:21:17
  He is so. Or skeletal, you know the line
• 1:21:22
  he goes through. He goes.
• 1:21:23
  Is that what I should do? Go and look for Gallifrey?
• 1:21:27
  I was there. I was screaming.
• 1:21:29
  No, no, no. Do you remember Arc of Infinity?
• 1:21:35
  Tom's performance here, though, is pitch perfect.
• 1:21:38
  Yeah. And it's just that's the moment
• 1:21:43
  for the old fans ultimately. Do you want to hear my?
• 1:21:46
  Idea for a book called Scratch Man.
• 1:21:51
  Saving it till the last scene was genius as well because I
• 1:21:56
  think if this wasn't it you would feel sure changed because.
• 1:21:59
  It would be indulgent to do it in the middle of the story, to
• 1:22:03
  stop for a little cameo, but just having 3-3 minutes at the
• 1:22:06
  end as a lovely little, we're off.
• 1:22:11
  This is Doctor Who's history because it is only about around
• 1:22:14
  this time that we, the show really starts acknowledging its
• 1:22:17
  own history. Before that, it's very much
• 1:22:19
  been, well, we bring a few things back.
• 1:22:22
  But they they showed all the doctors in the the next doctor.
• 1:22:27
  But that was that was like it. That was the acknowledgement.
• 1:22:30
  Chaps, what do you think of this last shot of all of these fatty
• 1:22:35
  doctors standing in a row? I mean, I love the sentiment,
• 1:22:39
  but I just hate the fact that that advert got it so right and
• 1:22:43
  then we've got these smudgy faced bastards.
• 1:22:47
  Yeah. It's so, I mean, that's so
• 1:22:49
  clearly not McCoy there, isn't it?
• 1:22:53
  That's clearly not Colin Bay. Look at jumper in a terrible.
• 1:22:58
  Way Tom's just the the TARDIS hat stand with all Tom's clothes
• 1:23:02
  on it. There's no human in there.
• 1:23:03
  Actually, even the matting against the CGI isn't great
• 1:23:07
  there, is it? The guy playing Eccleston I met,
• 1:23:10
  I think I met at a con. All of a sudden, all the McCoy
• 1:23:12
  or something. He wasn't a guest.
• 1:23:13
  He was just, he was just at the convention.
• 1:23:17
  He's like, Oh yeah, I'll play doctor.
• 1:23:18
  And then yeah, I love the sentiment, but it doesn't.
• 1:23:22
  No, in the middle looking tiny behind everyone is weird.
• 1:23:27
  And then the only time we ever hear this version of the theme
• 1:23:31
  tube now, what's the name? Billy Piper was credited as Rose
• 1:23:37
  there. Interesting.
• 1:23:40
  Which she's not right. She's the 16th Doctor.
• 1:23:43
  Yeah, she should have been credited.
• 1:23:44
  Absolutely. Do you know what surprised me
• 1:23:47
  most watching that. And admittedly, there wasn't
• 1:23:50
  some fair criticism there, but I did.
• 1:23:52
  I do think it is a good episode. Yeah.
• 1:23:55
  Yeah. I'm not the all conquering
• 1:23:56
  classic that people seem to think it is.
• 1:23:58
  I think it is flawed. Yeah.
• 1:24:00
  Is. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:01
  Really shocked me because I haven't seen it.
• 1:24:03
  I didn't watch this in preparation for this is how kind
• 1:24:06
  of unspectacular it seems now. When I saw it at the time, it
• 1:24:10
  felt like the most spectacular Doctor Who I would ever watch.
• 1:24:15
  And it was. It was, yeah, but I think the
• 1:24:19
  Chimney era, love it or loathe it, and even the tail end of the
• 1:24:23
  Capaldi era really UPS the stakes in terms of what you do
• 1:24:27
  weekly on a Doctor Who episode. Sometimes, just by the scale of
• 1:24:31
  the VFX that's something like this actually seems a little
• 1:24:34
  small fry in comparison. But, and I will reiterate this
• 1:24:39
  again, the fact that so many people walked away from this
• 1:24:43
  feeling as if they had had their celebration and not embarrassed
• 1:24:49
  like Doctor Who fans. I tend to be very embarrassed by
• 1:24:51
  everything that goes out new these days.
• 1:24:54
  I after this I went to the pub with my friends and then I got
• 1:24:58
  home at about midnight and I just sat and watched it again by
• 1:25:00
  myself. And it was, you know, I haven't
• 1:25:03
  done that in a very long time, to watch the same episode on the
• 1:25:06
  same day it was broadcast. I think for me, this was like
• 1:25:12
  the Doctor Who fans equivalent of your country winning the
• 1:25:15
  World Cup. Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  This was like, this is as good as anything's ever going to get
• 1:25:20
  ever, Yeah. Agreed.
• 1:25:22
  And obviously, you know, it turns out it's not even as good
• 1:25:25
  as Flux, but at the time it was amazing.
• 1:25:29
  Well chaps, look now we're going to have to do this in a hurry,
• 1:25:32
  but we do need 3 fabulous things from everybody.
• 1:25:35
  That is the format. So let's do three at a time.
• 1:25:40
  Should I go first to show you how it's done?
• 1:25:43
  Yes. OK, I am going to say
• 1:25:47
  unbelievably, Jenna Coleman, who I think when she finally gets to
• 1:25:51
  fucking do something in this thing under literally pulls the
• 1:25:55
  rug out of every impressive actor in this thing and is the
• 1:25:59
  most moving thing about the climax.
• 1:26:02
  I'm not going to go for all those tardos if someone else can
• 1:26:04
  take that. I think Murray Gold's score is
• 1:26:07
  on point in this one and he is leaning into all of those themes
• 1:26:11
  that he has established during the Mass Smith era.
• 1:26:14
  But I actually think the Mass Smith era is where he's at his
• 1:26:16
  strongest. So having all of that music
• 1:26:18
  playing out throughout this is just wonderful.
• 1:26:21
  And and number 30, I'm just going to put in for the painting
• 1:26:27
  where I just when I saw that for the first time, zooming into
• 1:26:31
  that painting in 3D, it was as visually exciting as the new
• 1:26:36
  series had been to that point. And I still think it looks
• 1:26:39
  really good now. That's my 3, Ian.
• 1:26:45
  I'm going to say Billie Piper, because Billy Piper can do no
• 1:26:50
  wrong. And and I really like the 16th
• 1:26:52
  Doctor and I'm going to keep on hammering that point home.
• 1:26:56
  The machine that downloads comics from the future and goes
• 1:26:59
  Ding, I like that. That's kind of a stand out for
• 1:27:02
  me and. What is wrong with you?
• 1:27:04
  And that really nice moment between the two Ozgoods where
• 1:27:10
  the the Zygon hands the real 1 the asthma inhaler.
• 1:27:14
  So she's I think that that there's something there that
• 1:27:17
  they could have gone on to explore, but they chose to do
• 1:27:20
  something else instead. Well, that leaves me with all
• 1:27:23
  the obvious ones. Go on then.
• 1:27:25
  So the photo of Chameleon? No, it's it's all the doctors,
• 1:27:30
  including the classic doctors coming together.
• 1:27:33
  It's the brilliant special effects of the Time War and
• 1:27:36
  Doctor Who feeling like a big budget sci-fi show.
• 1:27:39
  And it's Tom Baker. It's fabulous, those special
• 1:27:42
  effects, aren't they? Really good.
• 1:27:45
  And if we could have a fourth one, Matt Smith and David
• 1:27:47
  Tennant were. You know, I was just going to
• 1:27:49
  say exactly that. Just the fact that their
• 1:27:52
  chemistry sizzles on the screen. And I think John.
• 1:27:54
  Hurts, you know this. So the bottom line is we could
• 1:27:57
  all come up with another 30 things each that were great
• 1:28:00
  about it. I know we were pernicaty
• 1:28:02
  throughout, especially me, but there is so much to love.
• 1:28:05
  I don't know, I just feel like what I'm constantly told this is
• 1:28:08
  the best Doctor Who can ever be. I just want to give it a kick
• 1:28:10
  in, but ultimately it was a triumph and a success.
• 1:28:16
  It like you said at the start, you know, if 99% of Doctor Who
• 1:28:19
  fans can agree on anything, that's amazing.
• 1:28:22
  That's so this episode, by definition, must be amazing.
• 1:28:26
  I wonder if it was the same for the Five Doctors.
• 1:28:28
  Did everyone come away from that guy?
• 1:28:30
  My God, they got it so right. I would have thought so.
• 1:28:34
  All of those old men walking around Wales.
• 1:28:36
  Wonderful. I mean, that's all this does in
• 1:28:39
  the middle of it, yeah. Well, it's mostly young men,
• 1:28:42
  but. Young men walking around Wales,
• 1:28:44
  yeah. Dylan, where you be?
• 1:28:46
  Where I be, I am Dylan Rees on the Internet.
• 1:28:50
  I do a podcast called 2 Hopper TV.
• 1:28:51
  We look at Doctor Who, the extended universe, books,
• 1:28:55
  comics, blah blah blah. Come and listen to.
• 1:28:57
  US. Ian, where you be?
• 1:29:01
  IB we all stuff that fuck that up.
• 1:29:05
  I I do a show called World stories.
• 1:29:08
  In the end, come and find us on your pod catcher of choice.
• 1:29:12
  I be here, gentlemen. Thank you so much.
• 1:29:15
  It has been a true delight to experience, let's say, the highs
• 1:29:20
  and the definitive lows of plus extended media today.
• 1:29:27
  Are we putting this out on the 23rd?
• 1:29:29
  Is that the purpose? That was my idea.
• 1:29:31
  OK, great. Well, we've certainly chosen
• 1:29:34
  some interesting. It's a mixed bag.
• 1:29:40
  Girl power chaps, thank you very much for your time.
• 1:29:44
  Thank you. Brilliant.
• 1:29:45
  Thank you.