Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 137: Mikel Thomas: How I Overcame Injuries and Adversity to Find Purpose

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137: Mikel Thomas: How I Overcame Injuries and Adversity to Find Purpose · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My first Olympic Games in 2008,.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I was a junior in university.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: So the expectation is, yeah, you made the Olympics as a junior, you're going to come back and mash up your senior year, you're going to give that.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: But I got hurt, you know.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I got injured, I fractured my collarbone, still have plates in my chest to this day, and so whatever my expectation was for the senior year totally derailed.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So what did I do?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Well, you have to get a job.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I started with an internship at a university of Nebraska and was still willing to trust this innate feeling that I had that I was not finished with the sport and this is a tough one where you're battling with this feeling and you can't see it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: But I was willing to persist.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: It's easier said now than then, but I persisted for three years running, the same time under the poverty line, before my breakthrough came.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Mikael, thank you for joining me today on the Second Wind Academy podcast.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: All about career clarity for athletes.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Great to have you on here today.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Honoured to be here, happy to get this chat going Absolutely well.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Listen, we were catching up towards the end of last year.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: We've um we're managing to jump back on really enjoyed our conversations sort of last year and thought there was I don't know just so much well for one for me to learn about you and your career and sort of where you're going and how you're impacting individuals now, but also just the story to, to where you're at.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I thought it'd be so awesome or powerful for people to hear that as well.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: So again, thanks for making the time and for those who don't know you, who haven't really come across you as yet, please take this moment.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Let's just introduce yourself and let us know what you're up to nowadays yeah, I'm.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely one who.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I am a proud product of the power and the beauty of sports, hailing from the beautiful twin islands of trinidad and tobago.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Of course, I've had the honor of representing my nation at three summer olympic games and even helped our team qualify for a winter games after 20 year hiatus.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So one of the first from, and even helped our team qualify for a Winter Games after 20-year hiatus.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So one of the first from the Caribbean to qualify for both the Winter and the Summer Games.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: But apart from what I did, you know what I do is solve problems, and so I've been able to try to really stand for things bigger than myself.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I'm really passionate about athlete transition and engagement a part of the business of sport and helping tell that story with partners across the globe.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So how does that show up in today's world?
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: You know it's from doing sponsorship and marketing and partnerships with big companies like Visa and Airbnb in the past and the IOC, to continuing to help redefine what the Commonwealth sport movement looks like today from an athlete and engagement perspective.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Even more to come, depending when this podcast drops of how I'm continuing to evolve.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: But that's the whole point of this conversation.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: The athlete life is a journey and I'm excited to share just some notes that I've taken along the way.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: That's absolutely amazing.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I really like that intro.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: But what I get from you is some key words.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: One is evolve and for you it sounds like well, whether intentionally at the time, but certainly looking back.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: But that evolution through your career from on track to to off track and that problem solving nature you know I'm always looking for these trends that go through our career and it sounds like you've been able to lean into those as you've sort of navigated your career Does that sort of resonate with you?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, my event in athletics was the hurdles, so I could probably say I cleared obstacles for a living.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: You know it's.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: One of those things is especially as you move through life, you can see problems or you can see opportunities, and I think that's where I have grown to in seeing challenges as areas of growth.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think too many people, when they drive past a hill, they would see man, that's a really good place to get faster.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Or will they see a mountain that they can't climb?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: That mentality shifts based off of your journey in life, and that's something that I'm hoping that people get to gain is a new perspective of how to take on challenges.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Do you think that was something you developed as an athlete, or do you think it was sort of always?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I would say a little bit of both.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: They always say certain characteristics, genes, will present themselves based off of the environment, and I think sport is just one of those environments where you learn very fastly about who you are, what you're capable of doing and a world around you, but I do feel like that's also the beauty.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a proud ghetto.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: You come from a very hard circumstance Maloney Gardens in Trinidad and Tobago.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: We immigrated to Brooklyn, new York, in the nineties.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: So I think struggle is also the birth of innovation.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: It forces you to see your circumstances and situations differently and so, rather than just have a victim mentality, I'm very solution oriented, because I realize no one's going to save me.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: So I had to find a way to change my future and the projection of those that's going to come.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: You just mentioned there some of your origin story, from birth to emigration.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Talk to me about what that was like for you from a really from an athletic or from a sporting context, because through all of that you know we're going to hit on being a triple olympian.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: So I'm just curious how sport was in your life from those early days.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I mean back on the island.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: It starts off as just kids running around racing barefoot on the concrete in the grass field, in the savannas.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: It was just for fun, for the thrill of competition.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: It evolved, as I would say.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: At first I remember 1996, seeing Otto Bolden compete and realizing that someone from Trinidad and Tobago could leave our shores.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: There's something so powerful about an idea when planted.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: If anything, this is going to be a prelude.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: But I want to be an idea when I'm finished with this world, like a Mamba mentality or what the numbers two and three mean, like that's an idea that is so powerful because it enables somebody else to bring it to life and manifest it in their own way.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: But immigrating to New York City now, let's just say it really doesn't sleep.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So there's plenty of opportunities as a young man to get yourself in some, some activities that can take you away in a different pathway.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: But it was literally me running along in the hallways being a kid, but given an option from the dean, actually between track practice and attention.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: So my origin story literally comes from an option which I wish more youths today would continue to have.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: That's why, again, I'm a proud advocate of it because, unbeknownst to me.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: I never knew I was going to become an Olympian.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: But a seed was planted and someone was also willing to water it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: And so to be able to go down that pathway, educate myself, master's degrees.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: So to be able to go down that pathway, educate myself, master's degrees, bachelor's degrees from institutions around the world, being able to see the world represent the hopes and dreams and aspirations of my people, my nation, my culture, like not just the sporting side but the education side is there behind me.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: That has been afforded to me because of how I chose to pave out that career within sport, especially in an event where, on paper, I'm not even supposed to be in and I'm a strong 5'8 and a 6'0 dominated event, but no one can tell me because the hurdles don't care.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I need to do the record books and my name is in both.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I guess, as an athlete and for me, that that stature, just as a segue, is.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: You know, for me, ben Britt, colin Jackson, he's not again.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: You know you're six foot ten or whatever.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: You know he's not, he's not stepping over, he's like you, he is getting over those hurdles, no matter what is going to happen.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: And I hear it in you, I hear it in your voice, that there was that determination that came through.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: I'm really interested, then, for you as a youth.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: When did you start to realise there was something special about your athletic ability that could take you further than just running or having fun at school?
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I would say I'm a late bloomer in the event.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: For many people they're competing in organized sports in middle school, elementary school.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I really didn't start until high school level, so it was one of those things where I constantly kept getting told what I couldn't do.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Black man growing up in United States, as a young person growing up in New York City, you're constantly being told what you can't do, and sport was the first place where I was actually told what I can do.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: It was affirming in, especially in a sport like track and field.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It's not up to opinions, it's times and it's marks.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It's not based off of the coach like you or the position you play, it's you put down this time.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: This person in india put down this time, this person in madagascar put down this time, and the numbers are just.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: It is how far, how high, how like.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: That's just what it is, and so sport was just an opportunity for me to kind of define myself and discover what I was capable of doing, especially when I applied myself, and to be placed in an environment of expectation.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: That was something that I would give my coach you know, sidney McIntosh a lot of respect for, because he made it very clear that we could be a product of our environment or one of our expectations, and because he expected excellence of us.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I cannot just say, okay, I'm on the Olympian, but all of my teammates graduated high school.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: A large percentage of them also have degrees.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: They're great men and women contributing into society.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's something coaches could also be very proud of, because of the expectation that then created an environment for success, and that too, I'm also proud of to be very proud of, because of the expectation that then created an environment for success, and that, too, I'm also proud of.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: To be a part of those group of men and women who were able to be a part of us change, despite where we were, where we came from, but deciding who we wanted to be.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it's interesting that the two pieces they're pulling together from that story is one that you mentioned genes come out, or certain genes when exposed to particular environments.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Um, you know they'll come out, they'll express themselves and you know, without getting too by, you know into biology or anything like that, but what it?
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: What you really then talk about is how important that environment is, and you spoke about that coach for you, that where there's an environment where you've been told this is what you can do rather than what you can't do, and that setting an expectation, perhaps higher than you realized yourself, that you work, you know that you are capable of achieving and that's something I've really, you know, I'm really taken away from this conversation already is the importance of the environment, the importance of those expectations being set, and perhaps if someone just opens your eyes to you can achieve this boom.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Then it's up to you to take that option, to step forward.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I was honestly, sometimes even naive enough to realize why I can't do it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: So, for example, in the hurdles the junior height changes from the senior height.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: But because I was a late loomer, I didn't have much reps at the junior height, so I didn't have a fear or even an understanding that I couldn't do it.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So that also made me like sometimes there's ignorance is bliss.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: In that regard, where I was, I didn't have the bias of failure and I think that's also something that sport kind of helps us to overcome.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: We're taught to roll with the punches and take your L's as quickly as your losses, to be able to have a play and turn around and go again how much of those principles are important in life.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: But it also shows you if you work hard, if you're consistent, you will reap the roots of your reward.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: so it's a very interesting place to learn a lot about yourself yeah, it is right, it is, and it's one of the things we really pick up is that, like you say, you take the wins, you take the losses equal measure, analyze them, move forward, keep moving forward.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: And that environment that sport affords itself means individuals who can go through that, who can especially go through at that high performance level.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Learn quickly, right and and that's that piece learn quickly to adapt and then putting to practice those lessons for sure.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing, because life is going to keep teaching you, um, still taking losses, still having huge wins, um, but the biggest thing is to learn from it taking instead of a?
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: L being a loss.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: It's all a lesson and, like we've always learned in sport, you learn more from the losses than you do from the victories.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And so, taking what you can so that you can become better, but remaining humble in victory against so many beautiful things that I think are important from sport and in life a bit.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: When you went to college, did you have an academic path in mind as well, or was it a well?
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I'm doing this for the sport purpose.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Exposure, I think, is one of the biggest things, especially in figuring out what you want to do.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I was fortunate to go to a vocational high school in New York City, east New York Transit Tech.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: So I had electrical experience.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: We had a great relationship with the MTA, which is our transit authority in New York City, one of the best in the world, right.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So at one point in high school I thought I was going to be an engineer, but again fortunate to have exposure to what it was like and hated it, absolutely hated it.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed being outside, I enjoyed interacting with people, so it kind of well, what else do I enjoy doing?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And so sometimes, when you don't know what to do, you do what you know.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: It's a saying that I've come back to a bunch of times and I knew that the sporting space was something that I enjoyed.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to help and so I, first at a university level, wanted to learn the PT, the athletic training route, was exploring that and my freshman year was a very tough coaching environment for me.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And my freshman year was a very tough coaching environment for me.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I ended up transferring then to the University of Kentucky and just continuing to just learn about the scientific part of sport, which is interesting because I remember my biomechanics project.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I proved that my height is not an issue when it comes to me clearing the hurdle, because of the principles of projectile motions.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: All I had to do was change my parabola, so science backed me up, so now all I had to do was buy into it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But again it was exposure to different things and, as you kind of have these champagne problems, you have successes, you end up with different sets of hurdles, different sets of problem.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I truly also believe that the issues or the things that aggravate you or bother you are because you're supposed to be a part of the solution.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: So along my sporting journeys I kept coming up against hurdles for lack of a better word or appropriate words that I could not clear, and rather than put the onus on someone else, I decided I wanted to be a part of that change.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: So from coaching I put my hand into coaching, coached at some great institutions, from the University of Kentucky to Nebraska, to Cloud County, to the University of Florida, and I learned and I got exposed.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: So sometimes you know, for those who know where they want to be and what they want to do from day one, shout out to you, but for those that don't, sometimes it's just like being present in the current season that you're in is the appropriate step for your next season.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And so I just kept trying to answer the what is or why is it?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And it kept opening different doors and so tried the coaching route.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: It wasn't really working for me.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Wanted to continue to advance my professional career.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I was kind of a dual sport athlete most of the time.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Had to figure out how to fund the dream, like many of us, was luckily coming up at the time when social media was coming up.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Got really good at documenting my journey and felt that was like a cool creative space for me.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And then learned supply and demand.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have more following.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: That X business has more following.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe I can introduce you to my following.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And now I'm leveraging ambassadorship before it became influencers and using that to tell stories and work with brands.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, now I have a skillset, but there's still this issue, but I really love to do that.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So I kept answering.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: One of the biggest question is what if?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: In a positive way, because I think sometimes we use the words what if?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: To hold us back, but I kind of use it as a stepping stone.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: What if I did x?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: What if I did y?
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And I allowed myself again, because of the mechanism that sport provided the ability to test and move forward, test and move forward, grab notes, learn, move forward and that allowed me to care.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Well, I was just saying that that takes a lot of bravery, a lot of boldness to almost live very much in that moment, be in that position where, man, I don't know what I want to do.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Don't worry about that.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Let me focus on right now and test, experiment and fail Now on the track.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: That's within the bounds of training and competition.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: It might give you a bit of confidence.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: When you step off that track, you're in a real, you're in the big world.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: How do you think you manage to maintain that boldness, that bravery, to say no, no, I'm where I'm supposed to be right now.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: What if I do this?
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, that was good, I've learned how did you deal with that?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I was fortunate that most of the things that I was testing was sport adjacent, so you couldn't tell me that I wasn't trying to break the world record.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: If I'm going to do something, I'm going to really try to do it at the best level I possibly can.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So that was the mission and then.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: So everything else was a supplement to try to accomplish the main thing, and so that's kind of like how these other things evolve themselves.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So, for example, how did I learn about social media?
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Because I needed to pay the bill, I needed to fund the dream, and so it organically came along in knocking and doors and building the following.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: So it was an organic effort to fund a necessity.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Same thing how did I get into coaching?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I wanted to keep working with my coach at the in the NCAA system, and so in the U?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: S, if you're not in the university, you tend to be a volunteer coach.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: So if I want access to the facilities, I got to give back to the program.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: No problem, I'm going to start learning about this thing.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: So, because the main thing was already clear and again, not all the time it's clear, but at least I had something I was aiming at Everything else kind of came in in supporting it.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: But what I discovered is I was gaining a bunch of skills.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I learned how to build programs.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Actually, the biggest thing that I learned from coaching was how to communicate, because how you say something to one athlete needs to be translated differently to another, even if it's the same cue, and so how do you take now a message to one audience and now translate it to another?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I applied that also back to businesses.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So how do I tell this to from an apparel company to a drinking company, to a food and bev, to all of these things?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And I started seeing different threads kind of pop up, and so it was one of those things where, again, threat kind of pop up, and so it was one of those things where, again, the innovation came from the struggle and me having to figure it out.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But I did have a target, and it was literally realizing that you have a window as an athlete, and so I was willing to commit.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: It wasn't easy.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Rather, like I remember, I graduated I'll pull back my first Olympic Games in 2008.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I was a junior in university.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So the expectation is yeah, you made the Olympics as a junior, you're going to come back and mash up your senior year.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: You're going to give that.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: But I got hurt, you know.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I got injured.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I fractured my collarbone and still have plates in my chest to this day.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: And so whatever my expectation was for the senior year, totally derailed.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So what did I do?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Well, you have to get a job.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I started with an internship at a university of Nebraska and was still willing to trust this innate feeling that I had that I was not finished with the sport and this is a tough one where you're battling with this feeling and you can't see it.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: But I was willing to persist.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: It's easier said now than then, but I persisted for three years running, the same time under the poverty line, before my breakthrough came.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Now, if you told me that ahead of time, sure I would have done it, but I had this innate conviction my faith is definitely strong of it where I was willing to say you know what, in the pursuit of the dream, I'm willing for it to end.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Then to also say one day to myself 50 years, what if I had?
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: And so that also brought me a level of peace that I was willing to pursue and walk away knowing I gave it my all and to not try at all.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: And that's a big dream and very cool words to get to go with it.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: But that's a big dream and recognizing it and I guess you mentioned something I do want to understand more on is that life as that dual athlete, self-innovate in order to keep you on that athletic track, on that Olympic track, and go through those challenges as you did.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: So just share a bit, then, about how you managed to fund, how you went through that career, because the highs to me are epic, as in walking out Olympic track, that sort of thing, which means to get there, must have been a challenge.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Can you just share a little bit about what that journey was like for you?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very fortunate Again.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Looking back I can say that now.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: But, man, when you was going through it you couldn't tell me it was rough.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: You say it's fortunate and I'm like man, this has got to be good to make this unfortunate.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: So because it's it's it's hindsight, 2020, but like okay, so very fortunate to have been in the ncaa system, right?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: So obviously then the expectation placed on me and around me after making an olympic games at 20 years old, that you're 21 year, your senior year in university, you're definitely going to be better.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: You know, you did all of these things the expectation is going to be higher because that did not happen.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: But I still felt like, okay, I had an injury.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I had a freak accident I was hurtling one day and I fractured my clavicle, so that ended my outdoor season for my senior year.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So that in itself made it feel like it was incomplete, because it was a one, a injury that was not major.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: It's not my legs, the babies are good so there's probably still something there.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I tasted the mountain and I saw how sweet it was, and when I went to the Olympic Games in 2008 in Beijing I PR twice I was just happy to be there.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I was a bright-eyed 20-year-old.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: He couldn't tell me nothing, so I felt like there was more that I was capable of doing.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: So I tasted the success piece and then I felt like it was cut short.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So when I returned the following year now I'm at a university, I'm working, I'm training before business hours, I'm lifting during lunch hours, I'm doing my track during evening hours.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Literally, my days would be like from five to 11 for a whole year and I'm giving everything to my university.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I'm giving everything.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with the coaches trying to understand.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I became a student of the craft and so I had left no stone unturned.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I decided to go back to Kentucky to finish out the season, got injured again, was trying to coach Should I coach?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Couldn't get a coaching job.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Then I had one opportunity to this is now year three to decide if I'm going to coach or train, and one institution was willing to allow me to do both Cloud County Community College.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: So I did it, and so I went in the middle of nowhere to try to make a dream happen.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: We didn't have a track, we didn't have like full facilities.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: The junior college system in the USA is like, if you've ever seen Last Chance U, that's the premise of it.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: We have nothing and there's everybody's ears hungry.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So I'm fully accountable to not just my dream but that of other young men and women who feel the same way.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Like this is my one chance to get to some next level, and so that also allowed me to dig in deeper in a particular way, and I remembered when I was able, self-coached, to qualify for the london olympic games on my first track meet outside man.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I shed so many tears because I also PR'd by two hundredths of a second and in track and field every hundredth is a hard work to get.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: But being able to do that, I had a different sense of accountability, because now my student athletes they would see me work out and then I would then administer their workout.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: So I had this like I can't ask you to do anything that I wouldn't do myself.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Well, coach, just qualify for the Olympics.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: You know you're going to be an all American, like, so it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: It gave me this, this drive at the time, and then finally, after, again, I made the Olympic team in 08, but it wasn't till 2012 I was actually able to earn my first dollar from the sport.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: But how many people are willing to travel to the middle of nowhere, spend three years in the matrix of you don't know what's going to happen?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Track and field doesn't have a definitive line of what professional means.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: What are you really trying to do?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: So it was a process of really trusting, believing and a series of momentum.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I think that's something that I've learned to adapt in other parts of my life, especially when you're trying to figure out what you like or what you're good at.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I don't chase motivation, I seek the trend and the more, the more the momentum, because you tend to like what you're good at.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: So where have you, where your wins, showing up?
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: yeah, you know what else the other bit that clicks into me there is in terms of athletes and having to train yourself, finding that ability to train other people, bring them along that journey.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: When you're so young as well, you know that takes something else.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Athletics, the hurdles, in particular.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Is it a team sport?
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't describe it as a team sport, but you put yourself in a position quite early on where, for your success, you had to help others be successful.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: You had to be a good coach in order to stay there, and that helped drive you forward as well, and that's a theme that I know as we get to where you are today.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: That's a theme that seems to have continued throughout your career as well.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had to ask myself because the sport is also unforgiving.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I've been in circumstances where I've been loved and I've been in circumstances where I've told I failed because I finished fourth.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know in life where you finish fourth and you're considered a failure, so sport can be very unforgiving you're considered a failure.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So sport can be very unforgiving.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: So I couldn't rest later on in my career, my identity strictly on sport, and so what I started to do and again it's what I learned from when I was coaching, what I learned from doing my own sponsorship and little brand deals is you start tracking the trends.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And so I started to ask myself a different set of questions around.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Well, what is the feeling that you enjoy?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Or what is it that you get to do?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: What do you like about this, what you don't like about this?
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: And service is one of my golden threads.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: If I don't get the opportunity to serve for something bigger than myself, it's not going to get the best of myself.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: To serve for something bigger than myself, it's not going to get the best of myself.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So that's also where, if I have that opportunity representing things larger than myself, driving a meaningful impact service these are threats that I like to really look for.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And then, later on in my career, that's what I started to really pursue, more than just a title, and that allowed me to become a firefighter.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: You know, I asked myself again a different set of questions like well, what is it that you wanted to do?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Because I remember now, 2016,.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So 08 to 12, I'm in the matrix, I finally make it back to the international level, but I would say from 12 to 16, I'm professional, but 16 was a disaster.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Now, 13, we did good, had an amazing time, broke the national record top five in the world at one point.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: 14, injuries nonsense.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I was part of a funding program that was embezzling money that ended up having me become homeless in that process, because in the united states, bills are still due.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: They don't care when your government is writing the check.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So now I'm on my way to represent my nation and I felt like my nation wasn't representing me Somehow turn that around Rather than trying to blame.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: We worked on reform.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: This started the whole thread around governance and structure and athletes' rights and rules.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Again, being present in the moment, but recognizing that there's other people behind me, I'm not just going to try to grab, I'm going to try to set up, and so we did what we needed to do.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: 2015,.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I get my first international medal now.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: If I had stopped in 09?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I had stopped in 2012?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I had stopped at 22?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: But it took me till 2015 to get my first international medal.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Broke it when it counted at the championship.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you think I reached the mountaintop.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I go to the world championships and I fell on the first hurdle when I was expected to be a finalist.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Like life, lives, it happens.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But in 16 I knew you know what I made three olympic games.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: If making a fourth would be amazing, it's hard enough to make one games, but even as a returning Olympian, you have a 33% chance of making another games.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I did it three times.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm running out of threes here.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: So it was tough, but I wanted to start figuring out what next was.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues and, unfortunately, suicide, and so I think it's time to act.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life after they leave sport.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: This might be a retirement injury, or they need to juggle dual careers, between sport and a job.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking strategy, innovation and now life coach, career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: So I want to help those around me find their career.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Second wind.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I wanted to stop being on that emotional roller coaster of one day I'm hot, one day I'm loved, one day I'm hated, one day I'm left, one day I'm right.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: And so I started asking again myself different questions, asking myself a different set of what ifs, what I was always interested in, what I was curious about, and just be willing to take the risk.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I lose nothing by applying for a job.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Like it's paperwork Well, it is.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: So little things like that.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: You lose nothing.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: It's paperwork.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: You do lose something you lose the ego.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: You lose that belief that you're the champion.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: You're a three-time olympian.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: You're coming through this now.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Typically, that's hard right.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: That's a challenge now for you.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Coming through being a coach meaning you're having to to think about how they're thinking and making sure that they are not putting everything in one, but are being a balanced individual.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: It sounds like some of that rubbed off on you, so you were able to practice what you were preaching and be like hey, actually this isn't the end of the world.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: But you said something really interesting to just then, which was as you approach in 2016, you are a professional, you became a professional athlete.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: What changed to approach in 2016?
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: You are a professional, you became a professional athlete.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: What changed to make you feel you're a professional versus not being a professional before?
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: yeah, and track and field it's a really hard thing to define because we don't have leagues or teams.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And now it's even harder because you can make money as a junior athlete.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So at least then it was when you were able to earn a check from the sport.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: You were ineligible from the NCAA perspective.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: So if you're not an amateur anymore, you're considered a professional, a professional, when in my eyes, yeah, professional athlete.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Now I would say, well, at least then what I considered professional was I can live solely off of my earnings on this sport.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Um, I can't say that now because again, a kid can sign an nil deal and make more than my whole career.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: So that was the block.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: That was the quadrennial where I was fully training coaching staff, nutrition.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I was able to fund the dream fully from the dream.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And even though I was doing that, I would still dabble in other things.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I would still support my coaches with different elements of social media and marketing and things of that nature.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I was still very curious about what else I could contribute to, and so you keep the door open to your curiosity, even while you're focusing on the main thing.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I think that allowed me also the ability to pivot now not necessarily as smooth as I wanted to, but I took time to at least ask myself questions, to know myself, know thyself rule number one and ask well, what if I did this or what did I ever wanted to do?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And that's when I was willing to say well, we always wanted to be a firefighter as a little kid.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I grew up in New York during 9-11.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I was impacted by the servicemen and women in my own family, so I was willing to and this is part of you said the humility start afresh, even though I'm in my 30s.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Now I'm a veteran around the globe.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Can I be a rookie?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Can I be alongside people fresh out of high school and do drills, knowing I'm the most physically gifted person in the room, but have to run laps and do push-ups and I have to now pay the price for somebody else's mistake and still do push-ups, and then also being told you're too fast?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I was actually told this while in the academy because in firefighting it's now I've now become a liability, because if you're ahead of your teammate, you now put them at risk of being hurt.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It's two in, two out.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: You're only as strong as the next person alongside.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So again, it was a very humbling place, but a place where I learned a lot where I was, but it still created a different set of questions that allowed me to figure out my next pivot so many, so many things in what you've just said.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: um, I'm gonna I'll ask the the typical question first, which when did?
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: And then I want to come back to that because it yeah, that's really funny when did you realize you were going to, you had to stop being a professional athlete and that that cycle or that next dream was perhaps?
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: fading.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I think it's like um, not something you fully want to admit if you don't have it already set up.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I would say 2016 didn't go well for me, even though 2015 I meddled if it could go wrong.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: In brazil, it did like it rained.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I jammed my ankle during my dress rehearsal during my shakeout, like it was just a complete disaster.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I left Brazil early.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: It was so bad, but it was one of those things where I wasn't a hundred percent sure.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: So I tried to take some time to figure out what was next.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: But because I was feeling things I'd never felt before, but because I was feeling things I'd never felt before, I started to wonder.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I was forced to wonder, and it wasn't because the sport was telling me, no, it was because my emotions were telling me I can't keep going like this.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I'm working, I'm giving so much back to the sport and I felt like I wasn't getting it back.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: So you know, that was the beginning, I would say at least, of the change of the thought process.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Physically, I mean, that was probably a different story, because I think I had the ability.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I mean clearly because I qualified for the Olympics in a whole nother sport.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So I think I was still there physically, but the mentalness about the sport like it, it was becoming very fatiguing, cause now you're a veteran and you have this unfortunate expectation that sport owes you something.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I've spent 12 years at the elite level and you must give me X back for my toils and labor, and sport was unforgiving.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: It's on to the next new kid on the block.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: It will already moved on.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: So that was, I would say, 16 was the beginning.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: But it was more mental first in wanting my own homeostasis to be balanced than just constantly on this roller coaster of do you love me, do you hate me?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Am I going to get this signed contract?
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Is my agent going to do like it was tough and I just couldn't keep going on that.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: So, given that, what did you look to do next?
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: How did you start that plan for life after the game?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes back to that same when you don't know what to do, you do what you know, and so I learned how to.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: In sport, and especially building other people's programs, you build backwards and forward when building a sporting program, so what is the ultimate goal that you're trying to achieve?
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And then you do this kind of benchmarking as to where are you now and what do we need to do in order to get there.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that, okay, I'm not sure what I want to do, but I'm curious about this.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: So I decided to surround myself with people who have the experience.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: That's what we do in coaching in sport, if you don't know how to train yourself, you find a coach.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: You don't know how to eat, you find a nutritionist.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: So I found mentors.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So I thought about firefighting.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I wonder what's life like a firefighter?
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: So I got around firefighters.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I've joined the firefighters for Christ and I started hanging out with them once a week and eating breakfast and asking questions and exposure thing and finding out like, hmm, this might be a cool life.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: So, mikael, what's interesting for me there is you said earlier on, right when you were I I guess funding the dream, self-funding, and I was like, wow, how do you?
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: How do you do that?
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Because it must be so fair.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: You came back with you said adjacent and organic and relevant, and what I'm taking from that, from an interpretation, is it wasn't such a big leap to go from being the athlete to being a volunteer, coach or trainer or supporting people like that.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: It wasn't such a big leap to go from being that athlete to looking at or riding that social media wave and starting to build up that profile and and that was relevant to help you continue in your dream.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: It kept you in those spaces, helped help build that and and it felt natural, it felt organic to you and I was like yeah you've simplified what seems like such a big thing from the outside to actually one that is super, super targeted, you could say, and relevant.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: And then you blow all of that out by saying you wanted to be a fireman and I was like, okay, so where's that?
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: So what was it you think that made you say, hey, let me give this a shot.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: What was that spark?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Go back to that golden thread of service.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And so what I loved the most about being an athlete was what I said a little bit earlier is representing the hopes, the dreams and the aspirations of a people, a culture and a nation.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: That's my personal definition of my sporting and Olympic career.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: When I see the red, white and the black, I see a people, I see a nation.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I see resilience.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I see every creed and race finding an equal place.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I see that.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: And when I traveled the world and been to different places, I realized I was a lot of the time, the very first time you would meet or see or hear or connect with someone from the beautiful twin islands of Trinidad and Tobago.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I took that with pride.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't see that as pressure.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I took that with pride.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't see that as pressure.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: It was an honor to be an ambassador and so with that I was like man.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I really love, that's service, that's representation and so well, what were you curious about?
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: You list out, if I had to make it an experiment Again.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It's very similar to what we did and how we built out the program.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: So what is it that you found the greatest set of joys from and then strip it down of.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Well, what's the element?
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Who do you get to be, Not what do you get to do?
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: And I get to be this person.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: These virtues are what get to stand out to me.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Now, all the other things that you're curious about.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Where can they mirror, when can they match?
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Do you get a chance to do that here?
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Or do you get a chance to do that here?
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Well, let's go find out.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: And then the exposure thing of mentorship Again, humility, but it's nothing for me to go have breakfast with a former firefighter or current firefighter and learn and ask how is it like this?
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: What do you think If I'm trying to do this, what do you think I should do?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: And then also building legitimate community to help you figure out what you want to do next.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: And so they gave me some advice.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I executed on their advice.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: I decided to take a role here at the time.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Actually, I'm back in Atlanta, so I served in the Atlanta metro area in Clayton County.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: It was exactly the elements that I thought I wanted to do.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: But I'll also be honest in being where I was, there was still sport pulling at me, because part of my motivation in leaving sport was the inconsistency of sport.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I was very frustrated.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I had to move across the country to work with this particular coach.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't like how the funding systems and the structures were working, so I wanted something also stable, and firefighting was one of the few jobs left in this world with a pension.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: So it was something that you know was semi-motivated by fear, but a lot out of curiosity.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: But I was willing to test and commit.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I graduated as one of the top people in my recruiting class.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: But there was this something in me, very similar to the fire, that kept me going, that kept saying you're hiding and you have more to contribute, and the thing that's bothering you isn't what's happening in the service, it's the fact that you know something about sport, that you're not contributing back to the ecosystem.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: So how can you question this particular leader, how can you question these particular things when you should be doing something about it?
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And so that actually motivated me to make a another pivot and that's how I ended up on the next phase of my life and you know I mean that's great one.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: Certainly the way you answer the question question sort of nailed it in that continuation.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: That, um, that thread, that thread that goes through us, that career, who do you want to be?
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: And for you it was definitely that service and giving back.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: You know, I was going to be asking, and I think you're getting there that connection to sport and it was pulling you back out of being a fiery.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: It was pulling you out of that, that career once.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: How did it feel to walk away from being a fireman?
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I cried, I did and I took a video.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I took a picture.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of favor.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I really I love the teammates that I've had along the way, but it's something also very different when you're willing to die for the person next to you.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: You know like I've seen some things, you know, in serving the community.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I've been on some calls that I forgot and blocked out of my head and I had to talk to people to kind of explain oh yeah, I was on that call.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I've caught babies.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I've visited homes of veterans that have taken their own lives.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I have seen the highs and lows of humanity in serving my community.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: It wasn't easy.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I've been on two-story fires, outside of a window cramping with 60 pounds of gear and sweat dripping down every part of my body and still committing to the fact that there's a brother inside of this building and he's not going to get out unless I stay faithful to my current task.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: It's a different type of monster you're dealing with in that.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: So my hat goes out to those that always serve in any capacity because you just you are willing to commit in that regard.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: But sport kept coming up, and so normally, when you have an idea, what I try to do is I write it down, because sometimes you have these random thoughts and you don't know what to do with it.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Is it me?
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: If you're spiritual, you're like is it God?
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: You're wondering, like, what's this idea?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: If you can't leave it alone, that means you need to pick it up, and so if I've written it down, I put it aside.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: If it goes away after a few days, then it was just a thought.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: But when it just kept nagging at me, kept nagging at me, it was one of those things where, well, what does it look like if I was to solve the problem?
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: What do we look like if I was to do?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: And then you build the same experiment before, okay, well, what's needed?
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Where am I now and what's the gap?
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: And so before I could answer any question within the sporting world, I realized I needed a new set of community, very similar to how I did when I transitioned to sport.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Someone came to me in sport and gave me an option very similar to what I did when I was firefighting.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I gained access to a whole new community.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: So I realized I needed a new community and I needed new information because I could not.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's the humility of how fire service was and learning from different people.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: I can't judge a person for making a decision with information that they currently have.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: If I don't have that information, I'm not sitting in their seat.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I know we love to judge leaders in various ways, but if you are not sitting in the seat, you do not want to ask for it, and I learned that from firefighting, especially because the pressure that's on lieutenants and captains to make certain decisions they have to make it based off of that split moment with the information that they have.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: So I needed to understand what is needed to make certain decisions and I needed to surround myself with individuals who understand and know, and they can give me that.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: So this notion of going to school and getting my master's degree kept coming up and in a dare to God, I was like, okay, if it's cool, I don't want to go back to school.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Technically, I'm living a dream job.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to shoot my shot at the number one school in the world and see, I kind of figured out how they do it in North America.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Let's see how Europe is doing it.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: And I got in Again.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: What do you have to lose?
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: A few hundred dollars towards it.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Are you humble enough to now start over again to be a student, oh man, to go to a whole new country.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And then the opportunity presented itself and I got you.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: But just because the door opened don't mean it doesn't present its own set of hurdles, because Switzerland likes their money up front.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: So I had to figure out how to fund the dream again.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: But I had practice at that, didn't I Funding the dream?
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: How did I do it?
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I learned how to tell a story when you don't know what to do, you do what you know.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: And so what's around me?
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Social media is hot, crowdfunding is pretty hot right now.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I told a story around the world, build a media campaign with anybody who would talk to me and raise $30,000 in a month and funded my way to Switzerland to get my master's degree.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: So it's like the muscles that you prepare the small stories and hurdles you've experienced.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: These were just reps, these were just practice, and I know a lot of the time it's scary with the unknown, but again, I just love this.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: When you don't know what to do, you do what you know and you'd be surprised what you will accomplish.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: What were you aiming to achieve with that masters, that move?
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: What did you think was going to come next for you?
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: I?
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: didn't know, but I felt like I had a seed and I really didn't know.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you like I had this ambition that I would be the president of the IOC.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: It was like I know there's a gap and I feel like I have a seed and I think this might be the best place to plant it.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Because, again, if anything, the trend that I've learned is expectation and environment.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: If you have the right expectations, you can set the right environment or you can find the right environment.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Same thing when it came to coaching, same thing when it came to training, same thing when it came to every pivot.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have the answers, but if I plant this in the right place, maybe they will.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe I will somehow get the exposure.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Again, it's like common threads that keeps pulling up.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to get the exposure to something that I didn't know but was super, super curious and felt convicted to be a part of, and that led me to Switzerland.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: How was the Swiss experience for you?
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: It's different environments you know for you, how did you find it?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: It was actually really awesome.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: The only thing to accept about it was the pandemic.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: I'm a victim of that during a master's experience.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: You know I wanted a change.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I wanted to figure out how sport can be utilized at a global level, especially with the European model.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: American level is pretty simple X's and O's, dollars and cents Move the needle, we all win.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: But in Europe there was a different context towards it.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: It's the storytelling, it's the political piece, it's everything around the body of sport, it's organizations and alphabet suits of different acronyms that you would need to know how to work with.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: It's more complex and robust in its own way, and so I wanted to gain that understanding and going there was really good understanding and going there was really good.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Um, that refreshness kind of helped me because I was still at the time pursuing tokyo.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: I took a little bit of a sabbatical to become a firefighter, but I decided to go back towards tokyo with a different set of motivation.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: But the pandemic kind of just derailed everything and so that forced a whole nother reset and I think we all experienced it I think we did.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Well, I know we did.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: It was a, a global reset for everybody, I think, and that opportunity to, I guess, to sit back and say to ourselves well, what is it we really want to achieve?
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: How do you really want to spend time?
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Um, certainly, if we're in a position to be able to do that.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: So, for you, coming out of that experience and, I guess, getting to where we are today in terms of that impact, um, how did that set you up for where you are now?
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: You know what you're aiming to achieve yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: so while in switzerland I was able to continue to again make myself very present and I think it was a beautiful, one of my favorite places ever in the world to really immerse myself in the language and the people in the business of sport.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to understand the business of sport.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: We get hyped up about athletes' contracts, but I was always curious about who's signing it.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: I was always curious about who's telling the story.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: So there, I was always curious about who's telling the story.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: So there I was able to connect, did a lot of work with the IOC and the ITA around athletes rights and athlete advocacy and clean sport, and I remember there connecting with the top sponsors and advocating that.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I've led men and women into burning buildings and I've captained teams.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: But it's hard for me to say that I have an X degree and 15 years of experience.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: But what they like to call as a soft skill is something that you will take forever to teach another employee, while for me it's been documented how strong it is my ability to work with a team, my discipline, my dedication, my adaptability and resilience.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: That cannot be trained in a course.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: So how can I really help now implement this into organization?
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: So, in that strength of advocacy connecting with Visa they had, an athlete transitionary program was a part of that being formed and curated.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: That brought me back to the US to really work in there.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: I decided to really focus on core business, to understand partnerships.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do something different than what sport was currently into doing.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Got closer to innovation and startups and venture capital.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I started to see different models.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Again, my muscle of trying to figure out things led me into strategic and operational type of roles and so being present in the moment kept opening up all these things.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: But sport has always had my heart and my desire for it was to.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: If I don't like how we're doing it, can I present us a new solution?
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Can I present us a different option?
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: And so that's where I'm at now.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: After spending time in innovation, after spending time in core partnerships, after being not just the right holder but the right buyer and understanding what motivates organizations to be a part of the sporting ecosystem, how can sport now present itself in a whole new way?
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: How can we start strategizing about how to pull through new and innovative experiences, not just for our athletes, our partners and our fans?
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: That's where I'm focusing now and I'm super excited to be a part of, to say I'm, I'm in what the future and the present of sport is going to be looking like I said, it sounds like a big mission, it sounds exciting and I guess that's perhaps the thing that pulls us, pulls us towards this thing, because, you know, obviously I'm a broad sense, I'm with you on that mission, I'm with you on in terms of sport and certainly the individuals and and how they come through it.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: And I'll ask a, I guess a a question, because I know people are listening to this one.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: But how do you feel?
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: You know, you know, do what you know, great, okay, so you might not be sure what you want to do, but you're focusing on doing what you know.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: What does that look like for you here?
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: How are you sharing that story?
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: How are you pulling the right people together to have that impact?
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes back to that assessment.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: So every athlete knows how to look at what's our goal.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: One thing, athletes oh, we goal set.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: It's the whole point of sports.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: We keep score.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: So we all know we goal set, it's the whole point of sports.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: We keep score, so we all know how to goal set.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: That's one thing I'm sure of the audience.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Well, if you strip that down to the core principles of what goal setting is, there's always okay, this is the target.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Same thing like how your GPS works.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Gps doesn't work if you don't know where you're going.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: One so what's the goal?
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: If you have a fair view of where it is, that's okay.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I've done that before.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: I remember when I moved to Nebraska, all I put was Lexington, lincoln, nebraska on the map and I just drove in a direction, right.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: So even if you have a broad direction, start there.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: But then the next thing that you do with a GPS is what?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Well, where am I now?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: That is always the thing.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: And so, even if you have a broad idea of where you want to go or what it is that you'd want to do, well, where are you today and what would you or could you possibly do to get better?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: So if you're trying to make a tennis finals and you haven't, well, you could start a testing.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I need to move up the ranking.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I got to work on my backhand, I got to work on my doubles partnership.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Like you could start identifying both your strengths and your weaknesses.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: And that's why I say if you don't know what to do, you do what you know.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: And I double down on what I know, especially what I know how to do.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Well, and so if you have been able to attribute some sort of value if someone said, you know what I really appreciated when you did that that documentation, it helps you get momentum.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: So, even though you're not necessarily confident or sure, you go where the stone is rolling and you allow it to keep moving in a particular direction.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: That helps you at least figure out the next step, because that's sometimes the biggest thing.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: The unknown is scary, but taking one step is one of the biggest things that you can possibly do.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well put, well put.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: One element to do with those skills that we bring with us.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Like you say, we goal set, we keep score sent, what individuals do.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Oddly enough, when you were a fireman, what made you great as an athlete in some respects held you back, and that's your pace, your speed too fast, which is a wonderful, just scenario, which I know I'm going to keep on using.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: What are the traits that you had to sort of tone down in yourself in order to be successful in this part of your life, in this, that second wind?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: How do you say, ah, okay, that's not the trait that's going to get me ahead now or help me move forward.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: I need to raise this one.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: What do you think some of those things might have been or are for you?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: You?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: know that's a really good question, especially being a black man living in United States of America, constantly feeling that you have to tone down.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: So it's a double-edged sword in a sense.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: So I'll use a physical example of how I evolved my speed to become an asset, because what made it a issue in firefighting is if it's an asset only for one.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: That's the problem.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: We're a team, and so my speed was only an asset to my success in firefighting.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Well, how can I leverage what my speed brings?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: What it did bring was a fitness.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: What it did bring was a lung capacity.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: What it did bring was a composure, and what I learned to do is now share that with others.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: So now I'll enable them to go to another level, and the better they are, the less that I actually have to exert.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: That's what the thing is.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: So I didn't necessarily tone down.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I adopted, I adapted, I allowed it to evolve to where my gift, skills and assets becomes ours.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And so the same thing my passion.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Right, as a black man, you're constantly toning down your passion and your energy.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I've evolved into compelling storyteller.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not, as we like to say, whitewashing or code switching.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: If I'm speaking to you in English and you tell me you're a native French speaker and I keep yelling at you in English.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Are we communicating?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: No, it's ineffective.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: But it's the same thing that I learned when I was coaching.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: I learned that, even though three athletes need to do the same thing, this person is audible, this person is visual, this person thinks a particular way, and the same message has to be communicated in three different ways.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And so the same strengths and gifts that you possess.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: No, you're no longer on the massive stage of sport, but what can you now reapply to the situation that you are?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: To not only just be an asset to yourself, but your new team, your organization, your customers, whoever they are turning those skills into a gift rather than it being your physical gift, but it's now a asset that you're utilizing to bridge the gap for someone else.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Then it goes back into business principle the supply and demand.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: If you got the supply, you monitor the demand.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: So it's all those things where it's all about the perspective that you have and allowing that to be able to shape how you maneuver.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: So I challenge it.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not toning down, I'm constantly evolving and I think that's the humility that I always knew sport was a window, but I always also felt that it was only preparation.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: I truly feel like I have done nothing yet and I have all of these things.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: I haven't done nothing yet Because, again, what's the mission?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: As you has has mentioned, I want to be an idea, I want to be an idea for my child, I want to be an idea for any boy or girl from my nation.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: I want to be man.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Otto bolden left trinidad.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: You think I can do that one day.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: I want to be that and enable them to take that one step that will create whatever it is that their hearts desire.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Mikael, that's fantastic.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: You know I've enjoyed, continue to enjoy, our conversations and I think today, just walking through the journey, your journey, and just taking some of those ideas from you and sort of discussing that a little bit more, you know it's got my mind thinking start of my day.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to think about this all day as I move around and drawing little things.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: So I got to say thanks for sharing your journey, for just probably igniting sparks in my mind and hopefully for those listening and watching who are going to feel inspired to really make that first step and find themselves in that environment, just as you know.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: Just some last words, perhaps from yourself, when you think about athletes who are navigating that path, who are starting to think on well, how can I move into what's next, how can I prepare and indeed, how can they perhaps join in that impact journey that that you're going through at the moment?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: What guidance, what advice would you give to them?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Listening today, yeah, one.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Be patient with yourself because it's a journey.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Um, back to a theme in the story in physics, the hardest force to overcome is the first is is inertia.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: So it's a principle Starting is physically harder, but momentum is powerful.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: And so if you take that just initial first step in asking a question, surrounding yourself potentially with a community or someone who might know one thing more than what you currently know today, that can at least give you your next step.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: And as you continue to pursue these motions, rather than the motivation, you end up doing the same thing that you've always done, which is take discipline and make it an action.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: And as an athlete, you already know what discipline creates Freedom.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: That's what I was taught.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: It was a perspective shift.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: As we are disciplined with the little things, we are able to be able to receive and be faithful to the bigger things.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: So it's a journey, one step at a time.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Allow yourself to be curious and ask a positive what if?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: And you will be surprised what's waiting for you.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: Mikael, once again, again, thank you.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: If people are watching this, listening to this, they want to follow your journey a little bit more.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: I'll put it in the show notes, but if you just say now what's a?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: What's a great place to find you.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: We're going to be engaged in all social platforms.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: It's Mikel Thomas Mikel underscore Thomas on everything and, of course, on LinkedIn is probably going to be the best place, because that's my.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: That's where I live now at this stage in my life.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: So LinkedIn is a great place, especially if you're interested in transitioning career.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: You're building something amazing.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: I think that's a great place to connect, because I can connect you directly to someone who can just give you some more two cents for the bucket.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: But that's the best thing, and more is about to come.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: You ain't seen nothing yet, so stay tuned michael, thanks for joining me today.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: Really enjoyed our conversation on second win academy podcast.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: That's all from me.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Take it easy until next time.