Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: An NYPD Detective Gives Testimony To The Maxwell Grand Jury In 2021 (Part 5-7) (9/19/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: An NYPD Detective Gives Testimony To The Maxwell Grand Jury In 2021 (Part 5-7) (9/19/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to get right
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: back to that NYPD testimony given by the New York
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Police Department detective in the case of Glenn Maxwell in
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: New York. Question, so in January of 96, did Redacted
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: fly on a commercial airline to New York City to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: spend the weekend with her sister and meet Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: did she tell you that? Answer, yes. Or any follow-up,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: did Redacted tell you that she met Epstein at his
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: townhouse in New York City? Answer, no. After that deposition,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: did Epstein discuss her plans for college applications? During her
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: more recent interview, did Redacted admit that she lied during
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: her 2009 deposition of Jeffrey Epstein? Question, and in particular,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: in her 2021 interview, did Redacted tell you that after
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: she stopped seeing Epstein, she began working for an escort service? Answer,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that he was going to help her with her future
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: plans for college. Question, during that trip to New York City,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: did she stay at Epstein's townhouse or at her sister's apartment? Answer, yes. Question, now,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: during her 2009 deposition, did she tell you that she
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: saw Epstein a second time when he took her? Answer, yes.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And her sister, did she lie? Answer, yes. Question, what
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: did she tell you happened at the movies? Answer, she
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: said that they were sitting in the corridor. Question, did
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: she explain why she lied during her deposition? Answer, yes.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: He rubbed her arm and held her hands. held hands
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: with her. And obviously they're talking about Annie Palmer right here.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: And this is exactly what Annie told us in her
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: testimony during the Green Actual trial. Question, from what she
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: told you, what was her impression about whether her sister
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: could see what was going on? Answer, she felt like
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: her sister couldn't see. Question, did she in particular become
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: addicted to cocaine and crack cocaine? Answer, yes. Question, did
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: she tell her sister what had happened? Answer, no, she didn't. Question,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: did she say why not? Answer, yes. Question, and did
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: she become addicted to opioids? Answer, yes. Question, between the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: ages of 18 and 26, was Redacted arrested and convicted
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: on multiple times, including misdemeanors and felonies for crimes arising
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: out of her drug use, such as drug possession and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: trafficking violations? Answer, yes. Question, was her last felony an
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: incident involving stolen property when she pawned an Xbox that
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: belonged to one of her 1996 redacted friends? Answer, yes. Question,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: was she 16 at the time? Answer, yes she was. Question,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: from what she told you? Answer, yes. Question, And was
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that the longest jail sentence that she ever served? Answer, yes. Question,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: after a decade was released from jail, did she go
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: into drug treatment and obtain mental health treatment? Answer, yes. Question,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: was that several years ago? Answer, yes. Question, of who
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: these other kids were and why they would be there? Question. Sorry,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: let me rephrase. Answer. Yes. Question. You testified that she
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: was told that on this trip there would be other students.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Was she under the impression that there would be other
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: students like her on the trip who were also being
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: mentored by XT? Answer. Yes. Question, now you testify as
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: redacted that she was also told that Maxwell would be there.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Are you referring to Glenn Maxwell? Answer, yes. Question, at
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the point that she was told that Maxwell would be
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: on this trip, had she ever met Glenn Maxwell? Answer,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you know she hadn't. Question, had she heard her sister
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: talk about Glenn Maxwell? Answer, yes. Question, does redacted believe
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: that that comes from a fear that what happened to
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: her as a child could happen to her children? Answer, yes. Answer,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it made her comfortable. Is Redacted able to tell the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: difference between the voices of reality that she flew to
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: New Mexico that spring when she was 16 to help
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: her not hear those voices? Answer, yes. When she arrived
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: in New Mexico, does Redacted currently take multiple medications to
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: help her manage her drug addiction and her mental health issues? Answer, yes. Question,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: she described Maxwell as being very charming. Question, she gave
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: her a tour of the house and Maxwell took redacted shopping. Answer, yes.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Which made her feel special. Question, is redacted currently or
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: has she ever sued Maxwell? Answer, no. Answer, they talked
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: about school, homework, trips. Answer, no. Question, did she talk
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: with her about applying to college? Answer, yes. Question, did
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: she talk about her classes in high school? Answer, yes. Answer, yes. Question,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: did she talk with her about the homework that she
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: had to do that weekend? Answer, yes. What's the correct
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: nature of redacted and redacted relationship? Answer. Yes. Answer. They
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: have a child in common and they talk very minimally
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and living with their mother. Answer. Yes. Question. So do
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they only speak when necessary to discuss their teenage friend? Answer. Yes.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, it was just them. Were he
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: and Redacted dating when Redacted was about 14 years old?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And Redacted was about 17 years old? Answer, yes. Question,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: were there any other school kids there? Answer, no. Question,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: did Redacted remember that he Redacted? And Redacted and Redacted
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: were hanging out around that time? Answer, yes. Question, what
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: did Redacted recall about how Redacted came to meet Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And what did she tell you about that? Maxwell told
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Redacted to give Betsy a foot massage and then showed
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: her and instructed her on how to do it. Question,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: did she recall bringing Redacted to Epstein's Palm Beach residence
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: on multiple occasions? Answer, yes. Question, did Redacted remember receiving
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: phone calls to schedule appointments? Answer, yes. Question, what did
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: she tell you about the trip to the movies? Answer,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: she said that when they went outside the theater, Maxwell
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: was joking around and pulled Epstein's pants down a little bit.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: He recalls that Epstein was there with his car when
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: they were sitting down, touched Redacted's leg, and rolled his arm. Question,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: what if anything, it redacted, remember, he wasn't trying to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: hide it from Maxwell. Answer, he recalls that redacted said
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Maxwell was rude and nasty, and that she was supposed
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to be teaching her how to do massages. Question, what
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: did redacted remember doing with the money that redacted received?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: from epstein answer and maxwell answer they purchased drugs she
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: had ever and redacted had a massage and maxwell told
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: her that she could give her one answer yes redacted
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: was on her back what redacted understand was happening when
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: redacted was at epstein's palm beach mansion and proceeded to
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: massage around her chest and breast area question from what
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: redacted told you when she was describing to you question
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: what you just described to the grand jury how did
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: she feel when this was happening answer she He recalls
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that she had brought other girls. Question. Did Redacted also
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: tell you about an incident that happened on the morning
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: when she was in New Mexico? Answer. Yes. Question. Answer. Yes.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: What did she tell you happened? Question. Answer, she said
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: she was in bed. Epstein came into the room and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: told her that he wanted to come. So he laid
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: down certain Federal Express records regarding Epstein. Answer, yes. Question,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: was there one in particular from October of 2002 that
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Epstein got into bed with? Answer, she felt uncomfortable. Question,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: she didn't know what to do. through what we saw
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: on this slide. Answer, sure. On the left-hand side, it says,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: pick up October 7th of 2002. The sender's address is
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: on the bottom. In the middle, it says, Jeffrey E. Epstein,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: his address is 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: It was sent to the recipient being redacted. Question, and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: is redacted named still redacted instead of redacted in the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: recipient column? Answer, yes. Question, and the 457 Madison Avenue
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: address is at Manhattan? Answer, yes. Question, how it was redacted? Answer,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: she became upset and emotional. Answer, 15. Question, have you
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: ever interviewed a man named Maxwell? And Epstein's estate? Question,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: is that the same man about whom we read back
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: in testimony for Special Agent Redacted earlier today? Answer, yes. Question,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: for a minor grand jury, did Redacted work for Epstein
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in the 90s and early 2000s? Answer, yes. Question, for
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: today's purposes, I'm just going to refer to her as Redacted.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: How many times have you interviewed Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: what did Redacted remember about how he first met Redacted?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Is this a photograph of Redacted that she provided to you? Answer, yes.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: At Mar-a-Lago. And did she tell you that this was
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: taken when she was in approximately 16 or 17 years old? Answer, yes.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: At some point during that drive, while still on the property,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: she was asked, she asked him to stop. She got
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: out of the car and approached the female who was
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: wearing a uniform at the time. There came a point
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: where she met Maxwell when she was about 17. Answer, yes. Question, Maxwell.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Then got back in the car and drove back to
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Epstein's house. Shortly thereafter, later that day, that same girl
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: arrived at the house. She soon became a regular at
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the house. And is that within the same time period
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that we've been talking about today? And when Redacted said
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that Redacted became a regular at the house, what was
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Redacted's understanding of why Redacted was coming to Epstein on
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: beach residence? Her quote was like, naughty schoolgirls is how
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Maxwell treated with her. Turning to the next slide. Have
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you reviewed flight records for Jeffrey Epstein's private jet? Answer yes.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Answer yes. Did she tell you that they began spending
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: time together in London? Answer yes. Question, was Maxwell present
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: for some of those flights with Redacted while this was happening? Answer, yes. Question,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: are two such flights reflected on this slide? Answer, yes. Question,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you to please walk the Grand
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Prairie through those two flight records. Answer, on December 11th
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and December 14th of 2000, you can see all the
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: way at the bottom of the page, on the left-hand side, 17.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: it's marked 11 and 14. And the first flight goes
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: from PBI to Teterboro, which is Palm Beach in Florida,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to Teterboro in New Jersey. On that flight was at
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Maxwell's residence in London, and Maxwell, among others, had called
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Redacted over. So, Redacted went over And when she got there,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Maxwell was saying to Epstein, kind of, the words redacted,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: among others. Used was, question, based on your understanding of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: redacted's date of birth, she's so strong, and that Maxwell
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: asked her to give Epstein a massage. Question, turning to
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the next slide. Question, now you've testified just a moment
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: ago that Maxwell, that redacted, described to you that Maxwell
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: asked her to give Epstein a massage during the first meeting.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Question, would you please walk the Grand
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Jury through these three flights? Since you're so strong, I'd
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: appreciate it if you'd give Jeffrey a massage because he
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: needs a massage every day and redacted, among others. That
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: was from Teterboro to Palm Beach. Down a little bit further,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: there's another date that appears to be January 28th. Question,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: when that happened, did Redacted remember Maxwell leading her to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: a room in the house? Answer, yes. Question, when Redacted
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: went into the room, what happened? Answer, when Redacted went
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: into the room, and the last flight is the 30th
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: of January, also 2001, and then he touched it and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: pulled her hand to his penis. Question, what does Redacted remember? Question,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: based on your review of flight records for Jeffrey Epstein's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: private jet, Question, what was her reaction to this happening?
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: From what she told you? Answer, she was taken aback
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: by it. And Maxwell, when she was still 17 years old? Answer, yes. Question,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: have you reviewed certain phone records from the year 2004? Question,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: did she remember Maxwell saying to her, did you have fun,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: did you like it? Answer, yes. Question, did she remember
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Maxwell calling her several days afterward or at some point
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of time afterward? Answer, yes. Question, did Redacted remember Maxwell
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: saying to her, was there a search executed at Epstein's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach residence in 2005 by the Palm Beach Police Department? Answer, yes. Question,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: shortly after this incident, did the police recover her message
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: pads from her residence? Answer, yes. Question, would you please
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: explain to the grand carrier what those are? Answer, sure. So,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: message pads, in this particular instance, were pads that Epstein
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: kept next to each of his phones in his residence.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: If someone was to call whoever would answer that phone
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: would jot down a note as to who the person
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was that was calling, who they were asking for, the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: time of the date, and their phone number, and any
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: specific message that they wanted to leave. Question, have you
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: reviewed the message pads that were recovered from Epstein's Palm
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Beach residence in 2005? And in the next episode, we're
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All of
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Answer in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive right back in to the testimony
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: given by the NYPD detective. Are those two examples of
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: message pad excerpts that reference redacted? Answer yes. After these
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: first two encounters, did Epstein and Maxwell invite redacted to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: travel with them to Palm Beach, U.S. Virgin Islands, Paris,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and New York for the next several years? The date? Answer. Yes,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I did. Question. Does she remember whether these trips began
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: before or after her 18th birthday? Answer. I'm sorry. It's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a little faded. Question. Before these trips started, the message
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: is from Redacted and the phone number also a little
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: faded here, but says Redacted. When they first met. When
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: she was 17. Is that right? And the date is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: March 16th, 2003. The message is from Redacted. Same number
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: as the previous message. Is Redacted. The message is on
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the bottom. And it says she wants to work. Question.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And just to remind the grand jury. Answer yes. Question,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: now you testified a moment ago that Redacted told you
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: that at some point she began traveling with Maxwell and Epstein.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And she wasn't sure whether or not these trips started
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: before she called 18. Is that right? Answer, yes. Question,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: did Redacted describe to you that Epstein sexually abused her
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: during these trips, typically in the context of a sexualized massage? Answer, yes,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he did. The first one on the left says that
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the message is for J.E. Jeffrey Epstein. Did she tell
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you that he would give her cash? Answer, yes. The
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: time is 1230. The phone number is redacted. The one
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: on the right says the message is also, again, J.E.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: for Jeffrey Epstein. Answer, yes. The time is 3.15 p.m.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It's from redacted. The phone number redacted. The message stage
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: redacted wants to work. During these encounters, the answer of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Maxwell wasn't in the room. What additional messages were covered
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that are not included on these slides after these episodes? Additionally,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: were multiple massage tables seized from the room? Does she
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: remember Maxwell asking her after she cleaned the room from
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: one of these sessions? How was it? Is he happy? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: did she also tell you that you remember Maxwell telling
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: her at some point in some substance of the Palm
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Beach residence? Answer, yes. Question, would you please describe for
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the grand jury based on those photographs and that video
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: what the massage room and the Palm Beach residence look like? Answer, sure.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: about an incident that occurred after she turned 18 in
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach when she was staying at the Palm Beach house? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: did the incident she described to you involve a schoolgirl outfit? Answer,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: yes it did. Question, could you please describe for the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: grand jury what Redacted told you about that incident? Answer,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Redacted said that Maxwell had shown her a bedroom and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a pot on the bed was a schoolgirl outfit. Maxwell
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: is a soldier when Redacted had confronted her about it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And Maxwell said, well, I thought it would be adorable
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: if you gave Jeffrey his tea in this. So Redacted
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: felt like she had to put it on. And so
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: she put it on. When you testified about conversations you
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: had with others and documents you reviewed, and touched her.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: What was her demeanor like when she described the incident
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to you? Answer, she was crying. She was very upset.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: If the grand jurors have additional questions for you, answer,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: of course. Did she remember Maxwell telling her, don't be
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: so frigid? Answer, yes. I'll ask that the witness please
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: be excused. Four-person, yes he may. And he assaulted her.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: All right, folks. Well, that does it for this portion
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: of Grand Jury Testimony. Answer, yes. From 2021, during the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: years that Redacted was in contact with Maxwell and Epstein,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: did she remember whether Maxwell had ever asked her if
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: she knew any other girls? All of the information that
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Does she remember Maxwell saying, in some insubstance, do you
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: know anyone who could give him a blowjob today? I
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: don't feel like it. Answer, yes. Question, does she remember
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Maxwell saying, When she asked her to bring other girls,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that they have to look young at least? Answer, yes. Question.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: From your conversation with Redacted, did she tell you whether
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: or not she ever brought other girls? Answer. She didn't
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: bring any other girls. Question. Did she tell you why not? Answer.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: She didn't want anyone else to go through that. Question.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: From your interview with Redacted, did she tell you that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: there came a time when she was in her early
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: 20s when she stopped traveling with Maxwell and Epstein? Answer, yes. Question.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Was she struggling with substance abuse at that point? Answer. Yes,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: she was. Question. Did she tell you that she got
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: sober in her 20s? Answer. Yes, she did. Question. What
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: is her current profession? Answer. She runs a nonprofit for
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: people who struggle with addiction and trauma. Question. Did Redacted
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: provide you with several emails that she exchanged with Epstein
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: in the early 2000s? Answer. Yes, she did. Question. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: were those emails very friendly in tone? Answer. Yes, they were. Question.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: What did she say to you when you talked with
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: her about those emails? Answer. She said she didn't at
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the time want to acknowledge what was going on. That
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: looking back on it is different. Question. Did your squad
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: execute a search warrant at Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse in Manhattan
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: in July of 2019? Answer. Yes. Question. Did you personally
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: participate in the search of Epstein's residence? Answer. Yes, I did. Question.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Did the townhouse include a massage room? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Have you yourself been in that massage room? Answer. Yes,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I have. Question. Could you please describe for the grand
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: jury what the massage room looked like? Answer. It was dark.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: It had dark draperies covering the windows. There was a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: massage table. There were oils. There was a handheld massager
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: in there, along with handcuffs, a whip, and along with
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: walls were nude photographs of young females. Question. I believe
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you testified a moment ago that redacted told you That
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: there was a time when Maxwell asked her to wear
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: a schoolgirl outfit for Epstein when they were in Palm Beach.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Did you find the schoolgirl outfit in Epstein's New York townhouse? Answer. Yes,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: we did. Question. Where did you find it? Answer. It
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: was found in a room next to the massage room. Question.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And to be clear, did the FBI find sex toys
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: during the search? Answer. Yes. Question. What was found? Answer.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Butt plugs, dildos, and vibrators. Question. We've talked about three
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: minor girls today. Question. Is that right? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Have you reviewed the proposed indictment marked grand jury exhibit one? Answer. Yes,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I have. Question. Is redacted the individual referred to as
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: victim one in the proposed indictment? Answer. Yes. Question. Is
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: redacted the individual referred to as victim two in the
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: proposed indictment? Answer. Yes. Question. Is redacted the individual referred
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to as victim three in the indictment? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: During all of Maxwell's interactions with the victims when they
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: were underage girls, based on the time frame and your
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: knowledge of Maxwell's birth date, Was she in her 30s? Answer, yes,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: she was. Question, just one moment. All right, switching gears.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Have you become aware that in or about 2016, Maxwell
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: gave sworn testimony in a civil deposition in connection with
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the lawsuit? Answer, yes. Question, could you please explain to
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the grand jury what is a deposition? Answer, it's a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: statement made under oath. Question, and in the course of
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: civil litigation, is it common for witnesses or parties to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Of the lawsuit to give deposition under oath, where they
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: testify about the substance of the case? Answer, yes. Question,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and is deposition testimony live and in person and under oath? Answer, yes. Question,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: is a court reporter present when a deposition takes place? Answer, yes. Question,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: now before we talk about Maxwell's deposition testimony, I want
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: to talk to you about the lawsuit that the testimony
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: was about. Have you become aware that in or about 2015,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: an individual named Redacted filed a lawsuit against Ghislaine Maxwell
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: here in the Southern District of New York? Answer, yes. Question,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: and was Redacted suing Maxwell for defamation? Answer, yes, she was. Question,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: was the lawsuit captioned Redacted against Ghislaine Maxwell, the docket
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: number 15CB7433 here in the Southern District of New York? Answer, yes. Question,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: generally speaking, in broader strokes, What was the lawsuit about?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: What was the claim that Redacted was bringing against Maxwell? Answer,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what line are you on again? Redacted, page 68,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: line 4. Witness, Redacted had stated that she had been
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: sexually abused by Epstein and Maxwell as a minor. Maxwell
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: came forward publicly and called her a liar, so Redacted
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: sued her for defamation. Question, so just a small legal
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: instruction on the topic, ladies and gentlemen. I instruct you
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that the allegation and the lawsuit are not being presented
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: to you as evidence that those incidents occurred. I instruct
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: you that you should not consider those allegations for their truth. Instead,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the circumstances of the lawsuit are being presented to you
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: so that you can consider the context of the case
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and the circumstances under which Maxwell made statements under oath.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Turning back to the deposition, did Maxwell's deposition take place
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: over two different days? Answer, yes. Question, no. On both days,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: does she give testimony in Manhattan? Answer, yes, she did. Question,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: is that where the deposition took place? Answer, yes. Question,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: and on both days was Maxwell sworn under oath? Answer, yes. Question,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: if you could flip through the remaining slides of the presentation,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: do those slides contain true and accurate excerpts of the
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: transcript of that deposition? Answer, yes. Question, turning to the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: next slide, is this the cover page? Of the transcript
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of the first deposition that took place on April 22, 2016? Answer, yes. Question,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and does it have the case caption on it? Answer,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: yes it does. Question, turning to the next slide. Is
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: this an excerpt from the transcript? Answer, yes. Question, I
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: imagine the grand jurors can't read it from their seats,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: so if you could read it with me, I'll read
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the questions, and if you could read the answers. Did
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein have a scheme to recruit underage girls for
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: underage massages? And it appears there was an objection from
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the lawyers. Question, if you know. Answer, I don't know
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Question, just to be clear, was
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the question and answer is the answer here Maxwell's testimony? Answer, yes. Question,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, you testified earlier that Redacted participated
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: in sexualized massages with Epstein and Maxwell, is that right? Answer, yes. Question,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: and redacted was a minor when that occurred? Answer, yes. Question,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and you also testified earlier that Maxwell, that redacted, told
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you that Maxwell asked her to give Epstein massages when
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: she was a minor? Answer, yes. Question, if you could
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: turn to the next slide, please. Is this another excerpt
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: from the same deposition? Answer, yes it is. Question, all right.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I'll read the question, and you can read the answer.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Was all the people under the age of 18 that
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: you interacted at with At any of Jeffrey Epstein's properties? Answer.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not aware of anybody that I interacted with other
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: than obviously redacted who was 17 at this point. Question.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you testified earlier about two girls
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: under the age of 18 who interacted with Maxwell at
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Epstein's properties. Is that correct? Answer. Yes. Question. And those
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: individuals were redacted and redacted. Who told you that? Correct. Answer. Yes,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that's correct. Question. Turning to the next slide. Is this
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the cover page of the transcript from the deposition that
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: took place on July 22, 2016? Answer, yes. Question, and again,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was this Maxwell giving testimony as part of the testimony
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: under oath here in Manhattan? Answer, yes. Question, if you
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: could please turn to the next slide. Is that an excerpt?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Are these two excerpts from that deposition? Answer, yes. Question, again,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I'll read the questions. If you could please read the answers.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Were you aware of the presence of sex toys or
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: devices used in sexual activities in Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house? Misredacted.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: There is an objection from the lawyer. Answer. No, no,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Question. Do you know whether Mr.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Epstein possessed sex toys or devices in sexual activities? Answer.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: There is an objection from the lawyer. Then the answer again, no. Question.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you testified earlier that you told
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: That you found sex toys in a massager in Palm
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Beach and also that you had seen Maxwell had a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: basket of sex toys in her closet there. Is that correct? Answer. Yes,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that's correct. Question. And is it correct you testified earlier
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that Epstein used a vibrator on Redacted? Is that correct? Answer. Yes,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that's correct. Question. And did you also testify earlier that
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Redacted told you he did that as well? Answer. Yes,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that's correct. Question. Question. And did you also testify earlier
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: that sex toys were found by the police in the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach house in 2005? Is that right? Answer, yes. Question,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and did you also testify earlier that the FBI found
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sex toys in Epstein's New York City townhouse in 2019? Answer, yes,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that's correct. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off with
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the NYPD detective giving the Maxwell grand jury testimony in
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: New York. Question, if you could please turn to the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: next slide. This is on page 27. It says, are
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: these also excerpts from that same deposition? Answer, yes. Question, again,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I'll read the question. If you could please read the answers. Question,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: other than yourself and the blonde and brunette that you
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: have identified as having been involved in three-way sexual activity,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: with whom did Mr. Epstein have sexual activities? There's an
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: objection from the lawyer. Answer, I wasn't aware that he
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: was having sexual activity with anyone when I was with
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: him other than myself. Question, I want to be sure
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that I'm clear. Is it your testimony that in the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: 1990s and 2000s, You are not aware that Mr. Epstein
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: was having sexual activities with anyone other than yourself and
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the blonde and brunette on those few occasions when they
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: were involved with you? Answer. That is my testimony. That
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: is correct. Question. Have you reviewed the deposition transcript? Answer. Yes.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Question in full. Now, the excerpt we just read has
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a reference to a blonde and brunette. Are those individuals
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: completely different from the individuals we've been talking about today? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear. Is it correct that you testified
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: earlier that redacted and redacted told you that Epstein sexually
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: abused them repeatedly? Is that correct? Answer, yes. Question. And
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: did you also testify earlier that Maxwell was occasionally present
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: when Epstein was abusing redacted based on what she told you? Answer, yes.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: That's correct. Question. Turning to the next slide. Is this
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: also an excerpt from the same deposition? Answer, I'm sorry. Question.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Turning to the next slide on page 28.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Is this also an excerpt from the same deposition? Answer, yes. Question,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, again, if we could just read that together.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'll take the questions and you can take the answer. Question,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: let's just tie that down. Is it your testimony that
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you've never given anybody a massage? Answer, I've not given
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: anyone a massage. Question, you've never given Mr. Epstein a massage.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Is that your testimony? Answer, that's my testimony. Question. You've
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: never gave Redacted a massage. Is that your testimony? Answer.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I never gave Redacted a massage. Question. Just to be clear,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: as you testified earlier, is it correct that Redacted told
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: you that Maxwell gave her a massage when they were
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: in New Mexico? Answer. Yes. Question. We're going to stop
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the read back there, ladies and gentlemen. Let's take five
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: minutes of break, then we'll come back and finish the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: presentation in about five minutes with the foreperson's permission, I'll
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: ask that the witness please be excused. Now they come
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: back from their little break and question. I have placed
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: in front of you what has been marked as Grand
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Jury Exhibit 5. Do you recognize that? I do. Answer. Question.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Is this a PowerPoint presentation? concerning some of the facts
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and evidence that you have gathered in your investigation? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: did you participate in preparing this exhibit in connection with
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: your testimony today? Answer, yes. Question, then we're going to
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: have it up on the screen and we'll use it
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: as you testify. During the course of this investigation, have
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you participated in multiple interviews with an individual name redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: did those interviews take place in the year 2020 and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the year 2021? Answer, yes. Question, were there approximately five
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of those interviews in total? Answer, yes. Question, for today's purposes,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to refer to her as redacted. Have you
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: also reviewed reports from other law enforcement interviews for redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and is your testimony today based on both the review
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of those reports and your personal participation in interviews with redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: turning to the next slide. Are these photographs of Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: did Redacted tell you approximately how old she was in
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: one of the photographs? Answer, yes. Question, which photograph did
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: she identify? Answer, the one on the right. Question, where
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: is the one on the right from according to Redacted? Answer,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: oh I'm sorry, that was from her MySpace page. Question,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and how old did Redacted recall being in this photograph
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: from her MySpace page? Answer, 16 years old. Question, what's
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Redacted's date of birth? Answer, Redacted. Question, where was Redacted
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: living when she was about 14 years old? Answer, West
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach. Question, what was Redacted's home life like when
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: she was 14 years old? Answer, it was troubled. She
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: grew up. She had been molested multiple times as a child.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Her mother was addicted to drugs and alcohol. Her parents
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: were separated. She often fought with her brother and her mother. Question,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: when redacted was 14 years old, did she have a boyfriend? Answer, yes. Question,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: what was his name? Answer, redacted. Question, how old was
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: redacted when they were dating? When she was 14 years old? Answer,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: approximately 17. Question, so was redacted about three years older
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: than redacted? Answer, yes. Question, did there come a time
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: when redacted learned of and met Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: according to redacted, how did that happen? Answer, her boyfriend
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Redacted was friends with someone named Redacted who was dating Redacted.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: The four of them would often hang out together. On
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: one particular occasion, Redacted was asked by them and Redacted,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: if she would like to make some money, buy Misajin,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: an older man. Question, how did Redacted respond? Answer, she
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: agreed to it. Question, about what year does Redacted remember
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: this conversation taking place? Answer, 2001. Question, so how old
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: was Redacted at the time? Answer, 14. Question, during your investigation,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you learned of Redacted's date of birth? Answer, yes. Question,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: how old was Redacted at the time of the conversation
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: with Redacted in 2001 about massaging an old guy? Answer, 17. Question,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: after that conversation with Redacted, did Redacted meet Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: what did Redacted remember happening the first time she met Epstein? Answer,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: she was brought there by Redacted, she recalls, going in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: through the side door. and being introduced to Maxwell as
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: they entered. Question, based on her interactions with Maxwell, as
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: she and Redacted entered, what was Redacted's understanding of whether
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Redacted and Maxwell had met before? Answer, she understood that
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: they had met before. Question, what happened next? Answer, they
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: went upstairs to the massage room. They set up the
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: massage room, waited for Epstein to enter. At that point,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: they participated in giving him a massage. Question, how did
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Redacted describe the massage room in the Florida house? Answer,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: she described it as having a few doors inside of it,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: some of them entering a closet. She described there being, like,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: a bathroom, basically, that had a sink inside of it,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and inside of the closet had a massage table, which
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: they had to take out in order to set up. Question, what,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: if any, photographs did Redacted recall seeing in and around
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: the massage room? Answer, she recalls nude photographs of Maxwell. Question,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and other females? Answer, yes. Question, after Redacted and Redacted
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: had set up the massage table, what happened next? Answer,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein came into the room, they massaged him. At
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: some point during the massage, he turned over and Redacted
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: got on top. They had sex and Redacted sat on
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the couch and tried not to watch. Question, according to Redacted,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: did Redacted and Jeffrey Epstein engage in sexual intercourse during
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the massage? Answer, yes. Question, at the end of the massage,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: what happened? Answer, Jeffrey left, they got dressed, and each
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: got paid, and they walked downstairs. They got paid $ 300 each. Question,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: so to clarify, did a redacted and redacted each receive $ 300? Answer, yes. Question,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and how did they receive that money? In what denomination? Answer,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: a crisp $ 100 bill. Question, after the first visit, did
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Redacted go to Epstein's Palm Beach residence on multiple occasions
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: to provide sexualized massages to Jeffrey Epstein between 2001 and 2004? Answer, yes. Question,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: approximately how many times does Redacted estimate she massaged Jeffrey Epstein? Answer,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: about 100 times. Question, do Redacted memories of the events
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: at Epstein's residence run together after the first visit with Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: at some point after her first or second visit to
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Epstein's residence, did Redacted give her phone number to someone
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: at Epstein's house? Answer, yes. Question, after that, did Redacted
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: go to Epstein's house by herself without Redacted accompanying her? Answer, yes. Question,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: after Redacted provided her phone number, how did she schedule
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: times to massage Epstein at his house? Answer, she would
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: either call herself or she would receive a phone call. Question,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: did Redacted explain why she would call herself to ask
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: to schedule a time to massage Epstein? Answer, yes. At
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: the time, she wanted to make more money so she
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: could buy drugs. Question, during her time seeing Epstein, did
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Redacted become addicted to certain drugs? Answer, yes. Question, what
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: drugs was she primarily using? Answer, cocaine and marijuana. Question,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: when someone would call Redacted to schedule her for massages
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: with Epstein, who does Redacted remember making those calls? Answer,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Maxwell or Redacted. Question, and were there particular time periods
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: over the course of the years when Redacted was interacting
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: with Epstein that one or the other of those two
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: individuals would call? Answer, yes. Question, what did Redacted say
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: about that? Answer, she recalled that for the first time,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: or first several months of going to Epstein's, she would
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: get calls primarily from Maxwell. After that, she would receive
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: calls primarily from Redacted, but at the same time occasionally
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: receive calls from Maxwell. Question, and did she also remember
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: receiving calls from other Epstein employees whose names Redacted did
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: not know? Answer, yes. Question, did Redacted refer to Maxwell
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: as Maxwell? Answer, yes. Question, and then you mentioned another person.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: What was the other person's name? Redacted. Question, and did
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: she primarily refer to Redacted? Did Redacted primarily refer to
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Redacted as Redacted? Answer, yes. Question, who was Redacted according
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to Redacted? Answer, she was another employee of Epstein's. She
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: was an assistant who made phone calls, arranged massage appointments,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: and took photographs. Question, when Maxwell would call Redacted to
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: schedule massage appointments with Epstein, did Maxwell ever tell Redacted
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: where Maxwell was calling from? Answer, yes. Question, what did
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Redacted remember about that? Answer, she recalls her saying that
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: they were in New York and that they would be
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: traveling to Florida at a certain time period and asking
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: if she would be available for that time. Question, and
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: when you say they would be in New York, who
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: is she referring to? Answer, Epstein and Maxwell. Question, so
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: did redacted understand from those conversations that Maxwell and Epstein
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: at the time of those phone calls were in New York? Answer, yes. Question,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: what phone numbers would Epstein employees call to schedule appointments
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: for redacted to massage Epstein? Answer, they would call multiple
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: phone numbers, including redacted cell phone, her mother's phone, her landline,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: or her home line. and her boyfriend's Redacted number. Question,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: how did Redacted get to Epstein's residence for each massage appointment? Answer,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: she would either be driven by her boyfriend, she would
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: drive herself on occasion, even though she did not have
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a license. She had been driven there by Redacted, and
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: also Epstein or Maxwell would send him, send her a
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: cab to be picked up. Question, did Redacted's boyfriend, Redacted,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: ever meet anyone at Epstein's house? Answer, yes. Question, what
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: did Redacted remember about that? Answer, she recalls that he
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: met Epstein. Question, what did she say about that? Answer,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: he met in the driveway. There was a car that
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Epstein was driving at the time and that he was
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: showing to Redacted. And she recalls that Redacted really liked
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the car. And she had to hear about him liking
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: about the car. for several days to weeks after that.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All of the information that goes
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're diving back in to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the grand jury testimony given by the NYPD detective to
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the Maxwell grand jury in New York. Question, when Redacted
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: arrived at Epstein's house for each appointment, what happened when
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: she first arrived? Answer, she would arrive through the side
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: door and generally be greeted by someone. Question, would that
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: be in the kitchen? Answer, yes. Question, does she recall
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: at times Maxwell being the person who would greet her
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: In the kitchen? Answer, yes. Question, after being greeted in
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the kitchen, what would Redacted do next? Answer, she would
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: go upstairs and arrange the massage room and the massage table. Question,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: once Redacted was in the massage room, what happened during
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: each appointment? Answer, Epstein would generally come out, he would
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: get on the table, she would begin her massage. During
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the massage, she would flip over and she would touch
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: her breasts and buttocks and she said that every instance
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: ended with Epstein ejaculating. Question, what would Redacted be wearing
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: during those appointments? Answer, at first, she just started wearing
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: her underwear, but was told that she would make more
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: money if she would be completely nude, so she started
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: getting totally nude. Question, and so after the first few
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: visits to Epstein's, was she, did it become, Redacted's practice
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: to be fully nude during the massages? Answer, yes. Question,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: on a few occasions during the massages, did Epstein touch
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Redacted's vagina? Answer, yes. Question, on one occasion, does redacted
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: recall Epstein touching her vagina with a vibrator? Answer, yes. Question,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned that redacted recalled each massage she performed
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: for Epstein involved a sex act? Answer, yes. Question, after
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: each massage, what happened? Answer, Epstein would get up, redacted
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: would go get dressed, she would get paid. The money
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: would generally be on the table or on the sink, or...
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: She would go downstairs and be paid by Maxwell. Question.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: How much did Redacted recall being paid for each massage? Answer. $ 300. Question.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: In what denomination? Answer. $ 100 bills. Question. You mentioned that
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Redacted would sometimes be greeted by Maxwell when she arrived
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: at Epstein's house. Earlier on in her visits to Epstein's,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: would Maxwell engage Redacted in conversation? Answer. Yes. Question. And
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: then later on, after Redacted started primarily being of the
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: person to schedule these appointments, would Maxwell still be present sometimes? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: but during those later periods, would Maxwell primarily just say
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: hello and not really have extended conversations with Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: during the earlier period when Redacted was going over to
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Epstein's Palm Beach house, what types of conversations does she
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: recall having with Maxwell? Answer, she talked with Maxwell about
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: her home life. She talked with Maxwell about her abuse
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that occurred when she was younger. She recalled Maxwell asking
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: about her sexual experiences that she'd had. She recalled Maxwell
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: asking her if she used a vibrator or a toy
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: ever on herself. Question, did she also recall conversations about travel? Answer, yes. Question,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I'd like to go through each of those topics that
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Redacted recalled discussing. First, what did Redacted tell you And
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Maxwell about Redacted's home life in response to Maxwell's questions. Answer,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: she told her that she, her mother, was addicted to
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: drugs and that she had been molested several times as
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: a child. Question, did she also tell Maxwell that the
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: parents were separated? Answer, yes. Question, you also mentioned sexual
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: topics coming up. What does Redacted recall about the time
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: or times when sexual topics came up with Maxwell? Answer.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Maxwell has asked her if she was sexually active. Redacted
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: had told her that she's currently sexually active with her boyfriend.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Maxwell asked her if she'd ever used a toy to
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: pleasure herself, and she said no. Question. Did Redacted recall
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that the same day that Maxwell asked about whether she
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: had ever used a toy was the day that Epstein
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: placed a vibrator on Redacted's genitals during the massage? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: What did Redacted recall about conversations with Maxwell about travel? Answer,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: she recalls that on multiple occasions, Maxwell asked her if
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: she wanted to travel, specifically overseas. She had told her
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: that she was 14 years old and that her mother
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't let her. Maxwell offered to get her a passport
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: so she'd be able to travel. Question, when you said
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: that she told her that she was 14 years old,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: did you mean that Redacted told Maxwell that Redacted was
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: 14 years old? Answer, yes. Question, does redacted recall these
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: conversations took place when she was about 14 years old? Answer, yes. Question,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: does redacted recall Maxwell saying specifically where Maxwell wanted redacted
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: to travel with Epstein? Answer, no. Question, did Epstein ever
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: invite redacted to travel with him? Answer, yes. Question, what
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: did redacted remember about that? Answer, they were similar conversations
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: where she had told He had asked her if she
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: would like to travel and she said that Redacted had
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: traveled with him. She had told him that since she
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: was 14 and likely her mother wouldn't let her travel.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: He also offered to get her a passport. Question. Did
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Redacted ever actually travel with Maxwell and Epstein? Answer. No. Question.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: After Redacted told Maxwell and Epstein that she was 14
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: years old, did Maxwell still call her to schedule massage
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: appointments for Epstein? Answer. Yes. Question. Did Redacted still see
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Maxwell at the Palm Beach residence after telling Maxwell that
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: she was 14 years old? Answer, yes. Question, did Maxwell
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: ever see Redacted naked? Answer, yes. Question, in particular, does
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Redacted recall that there were between one and three times
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: when Maxwell saw her naked? Answer, yes. Question, how did
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that happen according to Redacted? Answer, it happened in the
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: massage room. Question, and was there one time in particular
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when Redacted recalls Maxwell touching her while Redacted was naked? Answer, yes. Question,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: what did Redacted remember about that? Answer, she recalls being
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: in the massage room, undressing. Maxwell complimented her body and
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: then asked her if her breasts were real, at which
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: point she touched her breasts. Question, and when you say
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: that she touched her breasts, do you mean Maxwell touched
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Redacted's breasts? Answer, yes. Question, and on those occasions, just
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: to be clear, according to Redacted, why was she getting
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: undressed in the massage room when Maxwell was present? Answer,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: for getting prepared for the massage with Jeffrey Epstein. Question,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: other than during her first visit or two with Redacted,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: did Redacted ever participate in massages with Epstein during which
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: another female was in the room? Answer, yes. Question, in particular,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: does she recall two occasions when Epstein brought another girl
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: into the room? Answer. Yes. Question. Would you please describe
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: for the grand jury what redacted recalled about one such occasion? Answer.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: She recalled that the girl looked like a model. She
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: recalls at one point during the massage, Jeffrey attempted to
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: have sex with her. He slightly penetrated her at least
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: once or twice that she can recall. She told him no,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: at which point he began to have sex with the
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: other female. And at the same time, she was performing
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: oral on redacted. Question. Now, just to clarify some of
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: the pronouns there, you said that Epstein attempted to penetrate
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: or have sexual intercourse with her. Do you mean that
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Redacted recalls that Epstein attempted to penetrate Redacted's vagina with
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: his penis? Answer, yes. Question, does Redacted recall Epstein attempting
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: to do that and actually inserting his penis into her
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: vagina on one or two occasions? Answer, yes. Question, and
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: in response, did Redacted say no? Answer, yes. Question, and
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: in response to that, did Epstein then engage in sexual
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: intercourse with the other girl? Answer, yes. Question, and at
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: the same time, was the other girl performing oral sex
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: on Redacted? Answer, yes. Question, was there another instance where
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Epstein brought a different girl into the room? Answer, yes. Question,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: what did Redacted remember happening during that other instance? Answer,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: similar instance where Epstein would have sex with the other
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: female at the same time while she was performing oral
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: on redacted. Question, so Epstein would have intercourse with the
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: other girl and the other girl would perform oral sex
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: on redacted? Answer, yes. Question, did redacted ever bring other
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: girls to massage Epstein? Answer, yes. Question, why did she
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: do that? Answer, she was told that she could earn
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: more money. Question, who told her or asked her to
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: bring more girls? Answer, both Jeffrey and Maxwell. Question, what
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in particular did they ask her to do? Answer, they
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: asked if she could bring younger girls. Question, did Redacted
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: in fact bring multiple girls over to Epstein's house? Answer, yes. Question,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: can she remember the name of every girl that she
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: brought over? Answer, no. Question, are there some examples of
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: names that she remembers? of girls that redacted brought over? Answer, yes. Question,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: what are some examples? Answer, redacted and redacted. Question, according
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: to redacted, was redacted younger than redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and according to redacted, was redacted about a year older
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: than redacted? Answer, yes. Question, when Redacted brought these girls,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: would Epstein engage in sex acts in the presence of
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: both Redacted and the girls she had brought during the massages? Answer, yeah. Question,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: after each massage, would both Redacted and the girl get paid? Answer, yes. Question,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: how much did Redacted remember getting paid? Answer, $ 300. Question,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: so did each Redacted and the girl get $ 300? Answer, yes. Question,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Did a redacted receive any gifts from Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: did a redacted receive any gifts from Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: what's an example of some of the gifts that she
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: remembers receiving from Epstein? Answer, flowers, a book called Massage
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: for Dummies, and Victoria's Secret underwear. Question, does she recall
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: receiving multiple packages of Victoria's Secret lingerie? Answer, yes. Question,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Before she first received Victoria's Secret lingerie, did Maxwell ask
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: her for her address and her bra size? Answer, yes. Question,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: how does Redacted remember receiving packages of Victoria's Secret underwear? Answer,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: she recalls receiving them at her house in West Palm Beach. Question,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and how would they get to her house? Answer, either
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: FedEx or UPS. Question, what, if anything, does Redacted remember
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: about the return address on those packages? Answer, she recalls
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: that they stated that they were from New York. Question,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: does she remember whose name was on the return address? Answer,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: she recalls Jeffrey and Maxwell's name. Question, what did Redacted
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: do with the money she made massaging Epstein? Answer, she
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: used it to purchase drugs. Question, did she and her
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: boyfriend then use those drugs? Answer, yes. Question, did Redacted
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: continue going to school after she met Epstein? Answer, no. Question,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: about how old was she when she dropped out? Answer,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: about 14. Question, was she in middle school when she
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: dropped out? Answer, yes. Question, so did Redacted ever attend
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: high school? Answer, no. Question, in or about 2003, did
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Redacted become pregnant with her boyfriend's kid? Answer, yes. Question,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: did Redacted continue to massage Epstein after she became pregnant
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: until she began showing her pregnancy? Answer, yes. Question, did
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Redacted give birth to her son in 2004 when Redacted
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: was about 17 years old? Answer, yes. Question, after the
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: birth of her son, did Redacted still massage Epstein on
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: a small number of occasions? Answer, yes. Question, what did
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Redacted tell you about that? Answer, she was doing it to,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: excuse me, support the baby. Question, was that because she
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: needed the money? Answer, yes. Question. Have you reviewed the
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: proposed superseding indictment, Mark Grant Jury Exhibit No. 6? Answer.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: It's not in front of me right now, but I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: have reviewed it. Question. Have you reviewed the proposed superseding indictment,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: or would you like me to provide you with a copy? Answer. Yes,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I have reviewed it. Question. Is redacted the individual referred
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to as Minor 4 in the proposed superseding indictment? Answer. Yes. Question. Question.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Before you began investigating Epstein and his associates, was there
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: a prior investigation by a different FBI office in Florida
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: into Jeffrey Epstein? Yes. Question. During that investigation, was Redacted
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: interviewed in 2007? Answer. Yes. Question. Have you reviewed a
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: report from that interview? Answer. Yes. Question. During that interview,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: did Redacted describe providing numerous paid sexualized massages to Epstein
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: at his Palm Beach residence when she was underage? Answer, yes. Question,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: did Redacted mention Maxwell at all during that interview? Answer, no. Question,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: during the more recent interviews with her in 2021, did
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Redacted explain why she did not mention Maxwell during her
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: 2007 interview? Answer, yes. Question, what did she say about that? Answer,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: she was not asked. Question, she was not asked about Maxwell? Answer, correct. Question,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: did she think that Maxwell was important to the interview?
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: In 2007? Answer, no. Question, did redacted sue Jeffrey Epstein
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: in approximately 2008? Answer, yes. Question, was she deposed as
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: part of that lawsuit in 2009? Answer, yes. Question, have
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: you reviewed a transcript of that deposition? Answer, yes. All right, folks,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up this episode right here. And
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off. All of the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: the description box.