Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.62 - Abby Johnson Fights for Lives After Planned Parenthood | Pro Life Movement | Abortion Recovery | Unplanned Movie

Transcript

Ep.62 - Abby Johnson Fights for Lives After Planned Parenthood | Pro Life Movement | Abortion Recovery | Unplanned Movie · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

0:00
And not many people have a movie made about them.
0:02
You do. It's about your conversion from
0:05
director of a Planned Parenthood facility to pro-life activists.
0:09
So what was that journey like for you?
0:13
So honestly, just the movie itself was it was something I
0:19
did not want to do. So I remember getting the
0:24
e-mail. It was, it was kind of funny
0:27
because I, it just came to my regular e-mail and it was from
0:35
two guys I did not know. And I had had other people
0:39
e-mail me before saying, you know, do you ever want to turn
0:43
Unplanned into a movie? And I was like, Nope, no.
0:46
And I didn't, you know, I didn't know him didn't.
0:49
And I just thought, OK, it's just somebody that wants to, you
0:53
know, do some little film or something.
0:54
And, you know, I just always said no.
0:58
And so then I got this. I got this e-mail from Chuck
1:05
Consoleman and Carrie Solomon did not know the names, did not
1:10
know who they were. And they said the e-mail said,
1:17
have you ever thought about turning your film into a major
1:21
motion picture? And I thought I was like, Nope,
1:30
never, don't want to do it, not interested.
1:35
And at the bottom of the e-mail they said, PS we're the guys
1:41
that did God's Not Dead. And I, I thought to me that was
1:49
not a selling point because I had seen God's Not Dead.
1:53
And I thought that is a super cheesy Christian film.
1:57
And I was like, I don't want my story to be that.
2:02
So if I ever did do a film about my life, I do not want those
2:07
kind of people doing my film. So so I went to my husband
2:14
though, and I said, Oh my gosh, I don't even believe this.
2:17
The people that did God's not dead want to do my story to want
2:21
to turn into a movie. And he was like, oh, that's
2:24
cool. Like what did you tell him?
2:26
And I was like, I don't know, like I, I don't want to do it.
2:31
And I think for me, it was really like, I had already been
2:37
so vulnerable. I had been sharing my story on
2:40
stages for years. I had been, you know, I had
2:47
written it in a book. And I thought that's good
2:49
enough. And so I thought, I don't want
2:53
my greatest sin, like the most terrible, embarrassing things
2:58
I've ever done in my life. I don't want that put out on a
3:03
screen. That's crazy to me.
3:05
I would never want to do that. And so I just, I was like, no.
3:11
And they wrote back to me. They were very persistent.
3:15
And they said, look, we think that there are people that will
3:20
watch this film that would never pick up and read your book.
3:25
And I just, my husband was like, did they e-mail you back?
3:30
And I said, yes, they did. And my husband said, you know,
3:34
I've really been thinking about it.
3:35
And I think there are people that will go watch this film
3:39
that would never pick up your book and read it.
3:43
And he said the exact same thing.
3:45
And then my husband said, have you prayed about it?
3:49
And I had not because I just did not want to do it.
3:55
And, and I was like, no. And I knew that God wanted me to
4:01
do it. I knew that was something you
4:03
wanted me to do, but I just felt so uncomfortable with it.
4:07
And so I just knew this is something I need to do.
4:12
I was on set for about half of the I was on set for about half
4:17
of the filming. I needed to make sure that all
4:21
of the films that were talk, I mean all of the parts that we're
4:25
talking about abortion, you know, the all the like kind of
4:29
graphic gritty parts. I was like, I need to make sure
4:33
that those things are 100% correct because if they're not
4:38
100% accurate, then there's no point in US doing this film.
4:44
And so I was on set for all of those.
4:48
And then they got everything done.
4:52
It was in its raw cut. They came to my house.
4:56
They flew down to Austin. They came to my house.
4:59
They showed me the film. And I was like, OK, great.
5:02
You know, they left. And my husband was like, you
5:05
don't seem very excited. And I was like, I don't think I
5:09
want this to come out. Like, I don't, I don't want to
5:12
do it anymore. And my husband said, well, it's
5:15
a little too late for that. And he looked at me and said,
5:19
Abby, you have to remember this film is not about you.
5:26
And that was really exactly what I needed to hear because, you
5:32
know, I didn't do this film so that it would be about me.
5:37
I, you know, I, I didn't do it so that people would know the
5:43
name Abby Johnson. Like I did it to highlight the
5:47
glory of God and to show people how like to show people his
5:54
goodness and that he is making converts every day and that it's
6:02
OK to change your mind even on something like abortion.
6:06
Even if you're, you know, standing in the middle of an
6:10
abortion clinic and, you know, God dropped something on you,
6:14
it's OK to change your mind in that moment.
6:17
And that his mercy is it. It's still available to you.
6:23
And so when it came out, I really, I thought, you know,
6:28
well, my family, I'll see it. And so we'll have like 10 people
6:32
that'll go to the theater and see it.
6:34
It came out and it was so exceptionally successful and it
6:42
was a hit. And it ran in theaters for 14
6:49
weeks. And every day, every single day
6:54
of that 14 weeks, I had people emailing me saying I went to go
7:00
see your movie last night. You know, my friend drugged me
7:03
there, my girlfriend drugged me there.
7:05
You know, whatever. I walked in pro-choice and I
7:08
walked out pro-life. Wow.
7:10
And to me, I just was like, OK, like, thank you, God for really
7:17
kind of forcing me to do something that was very
7:19
uncomfortable because that that was the whole purpose.
7:25
And, and there were so many stories of, you know, also women
7:30
that wrote to me saying, you know, I, I was thinking about
7:37
having an abortion and my friend said, I want to take you to this
7:41
movie. And I went to the movie and I
7:44
walked out and said, I can never do that to my baby.
7:46
And I've actually gotten to meet, you know, now it's so many
7:50
years old. I've, I've gotten to meet like
7:53
unplanned babies, like baby that or safe because of the film.
7:58
And there's just like, there's nothing cooler than that.
8:02
So it's it's pretty awesome. I think your husband asked you
8:06
to pray about it. Seriously.
8:09
Yeah. My husband, when people watch
8:11
the movie, they're like, is your husband really that awesome?
8:13
Like, is he really that great? I'm like, he really is.
8:16
He really is the hero in in my story.
8:20
So he's, he's amazing. Yeah.
8:24
And maybe one way of looking at it is that it's one way we can
8:27
make up for our past mistakes, making reparation for them, is
8:33
by giving testimony so that others don't make that same
8:35
mistake. Right?
8:37
Yeah. It's it's like part of our
8:38
penance in a way. Totally and and you know, the
8:42
Bible talks about that, you know, and especially about
8:46
testimony that you know, there's power in our testimonies and
8:54
that, you know, we will overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the
8:59
power of our testimony. And for me, this may not be for
9:06
everybody, but for me and for a lot of people I know that have
9:09
worked in the abortion clinics, giving my testimony is a is a
9:14
way that it it helps heal me and it's not that way for everybody.
9:23
You know, some people, they don't like talking, they don't
9:26
like being up in front of people.
9:27
They don't, they don't like all that.
9:29
But it is really healing for me and just just exposing all of
9:39
the darkness, even if it makes me look like a terrible,
9:44
terrible person, just being clean of it and just getting all
9:51
of it out in the open and just, you know, because light kills
9:56
the darkness. I mean, light is a disinfectant,
10:02
you know, the sun is a disinfectant.
10:04
And so just getting it all out and, and knowing there's nothing
10:10
left from that time on my conscience in my soul like that,
10:16
that's been one of the most healing things I think for me.
10:22
And so we, we encourage people, you know, that come through our
10:25
ministry, that come through our, our ministry that helps clinic
10:29
workers like you need to, you need to tell your story.
10:34
You need to, you need somebody to start telling your story to,
10:40
you know, whether it's one of us or whether it's your best friend
10:43
or somebody, you've got it. You've got to start speaking it
10:47
because you have to start putting it out into the light.
10:52
Yeah. One question I have about light
10:54
exposing darkness is sometimes things are so dark you don't
10:59
even want to look at them. Like, I mean, abortion, human
11:02
trafficking. Like I was about to listen to a
11:05
podcast on the Epstein files, and then after a few minutes, I
11:08
just turned it off. Like this is just, this is just
11:11
too. I don't even know if I want to
11:12
listen to this. What would you say to someone in
11:16
that position? Yeah, it is hard, actually.
11:25
I remember right after I left Planned Parenthood, I was
11:30
talking to someone who was pro-life.
11:34
And you know, this person's a friend of mine to this day.
11:40
But I remember talking to him and I was telling him a story.
11:44
I I literally don't even know what story it was, but I was
11:47
telling him a story, something that had happened in the clinic
11:51
when I worked there. And he said to me like his eyes
11:59
were just looking at me like, Oh my gosh, like I can't believe
12:04
you did that or I can't, you know, it was like horror.
12:07
Like he was looking at me just like in horror.
12:11
And he said to me, you can't ever tell that story you like.
12:21
You can't ever tell that story to the pro-life movement.
12:23
Oh. My gosh.
12:25
And I, I was like, oh, like, I, I don't know, like, I, it made
12:35
me feel like ashamed, you know, like, and I know that wasn't his
12:40
intention. Like his intention wasn't to
12:43
make me feel like that, but anytime there's hard things like
12:53
that that are happening, there's a victim.
12:57
And, you know, I certainly was not the victim of my story like
13:02
I was. I was one of the perpetrators.
13:05
And, you know, with abortion, the child in the womb is the
13:10
victim. And, you know, in sex and sex
13:14
trafficking, you know, there's, there's children, they're the
13:17
victims. And I, I guess I always just
13:22
think, you know, I have hard stories to tell.
13:26
And for a while I thought, well, maybe I do need to kind of step
13:35
back and, and not tell these kind of grotesque or, you know,
13:41
really hard stories. And then I thought, no, like, I,
13:46
I need to tell them because like, somebody needs to hear it.
13:58
There was a victim in this story and that victim did not have a
14:05
voice and that victim was innocent.
14:12
And everybody wants to pretend like these terrible atrocities
14:20
aren't happening in our society. And when we do that, the victim
14:27
is not heard. And, and so I'm like, no, I, you
14:37
know, I know it's hard, like these things are hard for people
14:40
to hear, but I mean, I'm all, I just always think there's a lot
14:47
of people when unplanned came out and they had read the book
14:53
and so they kind of knew like, you know, there's going to be
14:57
like these abortion parts. And they were like, Oh, I, I'm,
15:01
I'm already pro-life. I don't need to see that.
15:04
And I'm like, but I think you do I, I think there are some images
15:11
that should live in our heads for the rest of our lives.
15:18
I think that's one of them. I think, I think the abortion of
15:26
a, of an innocent child, I think that is something that should
15:29
live in our heads for the rest of our lives because it's so
15:32
incredibly common and there's so many, there's, you know, over
15:38
there's like 3000 victims a day. And I think if we don't, if we
15:46
don't live with that, if we don't rise up and, and give
15:53
justice, if we don't rise up and do something for these babies,
15:58
then no one else will, you know, And it's, it's the same with sex
16:04
trafficking. It's same with child abuse.
16:06
It's the same with these horrific things that we hear.
16:10
Like, let those things sit in your mind, like let those
16:14
things, you know, Burrow into your mind until you get to a
16:20
point where you say, I've got to do something about this.
16:27
I think that's why people tell the story.
16:30
That's why I tell the story. Not to be inflammatory, not to
16:34
be a sensationalist, but it, I mean, it matters.
16:42
These stories matter and, and I think, I think we, I mean, I
16:49
live with them. I live with these images
16:51
everyday and that part of that is a consequence for my actions,
16:56
but also that's what keeps me fighting everyday.
17:03
Yeah, because it's different when it's in our own society.
17:06
It's the greatest moral evil of our time, it seems to me.
17:09
And it's not enough for us just to disagree with it in
17:11
principle. But we, I think as citizens, we
17:14
have an obligation to fight it. It's not like Nazism, which
17:19
other than the Azov Battalion in Ukraine, is like practically
17:23
dead. This is something that we're to
17:26
some degree complicit in. Well, yeah.
17:29
And it, you know, I think it's that's kind of a good example.
17:36
Like I don't think in the United States, because we were so
17:41
affected, everybody in the world, but the United States in
17:46
particular was so affected by the Holocaust, right?
17:49
Because we saw the pictures. We have a Holocaust Museum in DC
17:56
that, you know, you can walk through.
17:58
You can see what was done to these people.
18:02
You know, you walk into a room and it's just piled high full of
18:09
shoes of, you know, the people that died in the Holocaust.
18:15
And you see the images of these people, how they were emaciated.
18:20
And you read the stories and you see the faces of the people that
18:24
were tortured and researched on and all this kind of stuff,
18:27
right? And I think that makes us, I
18:33
think that makes us say we would never allow that to happen in
18:38
our country, right? So.
18:45
And, and we're like that. We would never, we would never
18:50
allow, you know, group, we would never allow a larger group of
18:58
people to overtake a smaller group of people and torture them
19:06
and gas them to death and research on them.
19:13
We would never do that, right? Because we've been taught that's
19:18
terrible. We've been taught about the
19:21
Holocaust since we were little grade schoolers, right?
19:26
And that would that would be terrible.
19:28
We would never do it. But that's the problem.
19:36
We are doing it. We are doing it with the pre
19:41
born. We are doing it with them.
19:43
But the problem is that this larger group of people do not
19:50
see the pre born as human beings, even though the only
19:57
reason that these labs want to research on them is because
20:01
they're human beings. I've.
20:04
Never thought of it like that. Right.
20:06
Like they don't want them because they're whales.
20:09
They don't want them because they're cats.
20:13
They only want them because they have human DNA and they only
20:17
want them when they're well formed enough so that they have
20:23
a neural tube, so that they have a liver and a thymus.
20:29
You don't have that when you're six weeks gestation.
20:34
You only have that further along into the pregnancy, right, when
20:39
it's clearly a baby. But I think the reason that this
20:44
happens is because you don't see in an abortion, nobody sees the
20:50
victim die. So it's all done in secret.
20:56
It's all done in the secret of the womb, you know, in this
21:01
secretive, supposed to be safe place so you don't see the baby
21:07
die. You don't see the baby, you
21:09
know, fighting for its life. You see none of that.
21:13
And I think that's what was so compelling with the Jewish
21:19
Holocaust. Honestly, I think that's what,
21:21
what was so compelling with the Black Lives Matter movement
21:27
because you could see these men being shot and killed.
21:38
And, and I remember, I mean, I remember watching one, I
21:42
remember watching Philando Castile.
21:47
I remember watching him be shot. And, and, and even though I'm
21:54
supportive of the police, and even though I, I did not believe
21:58
in the BLM movement, I remember watching it and just watching my
22:05
heart break because you're watching a human being die.
22:11
And, and I remember thinking, of course, of course, they're
22:19
standing up against this because they're watching someone be
22:27
killed, you know, and they feel like that is a terrible
22:32
injustice. And I thought This is why, This
22:39
is why people don't consider abortion and injustice, because
22:45
they think the women are the victim.
22:49
They don't see the actual victim.
22:52
And that's the preborn child. So now you're doing a lot to
22:57
reverse that. So you have a lot of different
22:59
initiatives. How did how did you build that
23:02
up? I'm kind of interested from an
23:03
entrepreneurial perspective, how did you build all that up?
23:10
Well, I just saw a need. I'm really not a person that
23:14
like likes to, you know, duplicate something that's
23:19
already happening. And there was no organization in
23:24
the pro-life movement to help abortion clinic workers.
23:30
And I would, I couldn't believe it.
23:32
I, I thought that's crazy because we have ministries for,
23:36
I mean, everything in the pro-life movement.
23:41
We've got, you know, adoption organizations, we've got
23:45
thousands of pregnancy resource centers.
23:48
We've got all these, you know, post abortion healing
23:51
ministries. We have so many, so many
23:54
different ministries. And we had nothing though, for
24:00
people like me. And you know, I knew how
24:05
difficult it was to leave the abortion clinic because when you
24:09
leave your job, you're actually not just leaving a job, You're
24:13
leaving your identity behind. You know, you're leaving.
24:18
When I left Planned Parenthood, I left every single friend I
24:22
had. I left my church.
24:29
My church kicked me out. Wow.
24:32
Because I was publicly pro-life and they were a pro-choice, pro
24:38
abortion church. Gosh.
24:41
So I left my faith community. I left all of my friends turned
24:47
on me and I left my identity. I had been this, you know,
24:58
fierce pro abortion feminist for all of these years.
25:04
And now I did not know who I was.
25:08
I all, all I knew was that I was ashamed of who I had been and I
25:14
did not want to do that anymore. And so I was like, I don't know
25:20
what that means for me. And and so it kind of was like
25:25
building my life back and then I was doing all of it in public,
25:30
which zero stars do not recommend.
25:36
I was building my life back and I was doing all this healing
25:39
from working in the abortion industry in public in front of
25:43
everybody. So, you know, one day I'm
25:46
leaving the clinic and then literally 3 weeks later, I have
25:52
microphones in my face, you know, asking me about my story
25:58
and asking me all these questions about how I feel about
26:03
this and how I feel about that. And what do I think about, you
26:06
know, abortion in cases like this?
26:08
And I'm like, guys, I was just running an abortion clinic 3
26:13
weeks ago. Like, I don't know how I feel
26:15
about anything like, And so throughout that process, you
26:19
know, I, I said dumb things. I got things right.
26:25
I got things wrong. I, you know, my journey up until
26:28
this point, I've been out of the industry for over 15 years now.
26:31
My journey up until this point has been messy.
26:35
It's been full of, you know, wrong things that I said and
26:44
things I didn't understand. And and so and the spiritual
26:52
warfare when you leave the abortion industry is very real
26:56
because you turned away from the enemy.
27:01
And so you know, he is really attacking you like he comes
27:05
after your marriage and particularly your marriage and a
27:13
lot of like self doubt and, you know, trying to put shame and
27:17
back into your mind and all this kind of stuff.
27:19
So the spiritual part of it is very intense.
27:22
And so I realized pretty early on because I was trying to find
27:26
other people like me because nobody really seemed to
27:31
understand what I was going through in the pro-life
27:34
movement. So I tried to find like other
27:36
people like me and realize they didn't exist.
27:39
So I thought, well, this seems like a need.
27:42
So I started a nonprofit which I did not know how to do.
27:47
I knew how to run 1 'cause I'd run Planned Parenthood pretty
27:51
successfully, but I did not know how to start a nonprofit.
27:54
So figured that out, got it started.
27:58
We launched officially June 6th of 2012.
28:05
And yeah, and like 4 years went from $0.00 to like $2,000,000.
28:15
And our growth and our expansion just, it was like it just went
28:24
wild because this was a completely untapped market of
28:32
people that we were reaching. But it was not easy in the
28:36
beginning. I'll tell you in the beginning,
28:38
the pro-life movement did not like what I was doing.
28:42
A lot of people in the pro-life movement did not like what I was
28:45
doing. They thought that this was a
28:48
group of people that did not deserve our support.
28:55
They were like, you know, the, the kind of the overwhelming
29:01
feeling was, well, they've made their bed, they can lie in it.
29:05
That was kind of the thought process.
29:08
And so it really was changing attitudes within the pro-life
29:12
movement as well. And a lot of people, a lot of
29:16
leaders in the pro-life movement kind of patted me on the head
29:19
and said, oh, that's so cute. You know, you want to do that.
29:23
But I heard so many times, Abby, some people are just too far
29:29
gone. That's not a Christian world to
29:31
you. It is not.
29:33
And that just made me want to do it even more because I'm like
29:37
that. And so, you know, I would say to
29:40
people who are, you know, trying to pursue like an
29:44
entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial dream or trying to build your
29:51
own business or, you know, I would say, let let the
29:57
negativity fuel you. It really was fuel to me to kind
30:05
of like prove people wrong, I guess.
30:09
But also I knew that I had been called to do this.
30:14
I knew that I had a essentially a product, right?
30:20
I had a product to sell to people that no one else was
30:25
selling them. And that was the ability to
30:28
leave the abortion industry and come to Christ.
30:32
And nobody else was selling that product to these abortion
30:36
workers. The only product they were
30:39
selling them was telling them that they were murderers and
30:42
that they were going to hell. And so I thought, well, that
30:47
sucks. That's a terrible product.
30:50
Like, you've got to sell them something that's hopeful.
30:54
You've got to sell them. Like if that's your product,
30:57
then you've got to come out with a product to actually save them,
31:01
right? And, and I, I knew that I had
31:05
that product and I knew that I was the best.
31:08
I knew I was the very, very best person to reach them because I
31:14
was one of them. And, and so I just kept at it,
31:20
kept at it. And you know, that first year,
31:25
Oh my gosh, that first year, we had no money.
31:29
We were, I, there were days I'd go to the post office and I'd be
31:33
like, Oh my gosh, like I'm praying for money because we
31:38
have no money. And, and then I'd, I'd be
31:41
praying to God, like God, please don't let an abortion clinic
31:45
worker call us because we have no money in the bank right now.
31:49
Like, so it was like the opposite of what I should have
31:51
been praying for, but I was like, God, I like, we can't have
31:55
a worker come to us right now because we have no money to help
31:57
them. And then a worker would come and
32:00
that day I would go to the post office.
32:02
We'd have like a $2000 check in there like God always provided
32:06
for us. And and then as we started to,
32:12
you know, share what we were doing and we were sharing the
32:16
testimonies and we were, I didn't have cute little fat
32:20
babies to show them with cute little fat rolls everywhere.
32:23
I had like 45 middle-aged women, like 45 year old middle-aged
32:30
women, which is not as cute as a chubby baby, right?
32:34
But they were talking about all these things that they had seen.
32:38
And so it wasn't about really saving their physical life.
32:41
It was about helping them grow in their eternal life.
32:46
And so that was something we had to remind the pro-life movement.
32:50
And I, I think our ministry almost single handedly did this.
32:54
And, and I, that's not me like being pompous or like having
32:58
hubris. Like I, I really do believe
33:00
this. I believe our ministry almost
33:03
single handedly had to remind the pro-life movement why we are
33:09
doing this in the 1st place. And it's not just about getting
33:16
women to have babies, but it is about making heaven crowded.
33:24
It is about getting people to the core of what brings about a
33:29
culture of life, and that is Jesus.
33:33
And we had to remind people of that.
33:38
It's not just about making a tally of how many women give
33:42
birth and calling that a success.
33:46
That is not what the pro-life movement is.
33:50
That is not what the pro-life movement should be.
33:53
This is about changing people's lives.
33:55
If it's just about having women give birth, then we are pro
34:00
birth and shame on us. And that means that our
34:05
relationship with women is transactional and it's no
34:09
different than Planned Parenthood.
34:14
Our relationship with women should be transformational, not
34:19
transactional, and the greatest way we can transform women is to
34:24
bring them into relationship with their Savior.
34:29
What's so powerful about your story is you were willing to
34:33
leave everything the including the relationships and and that
34:38
is what I don't see most people capable of doing, I think.
34:42
I think if there were another Holocaust in this it which
34:46
happened in this country, I, I don't think most people would
34:49
be, would fight against it. Like most people are neither
34:52
virtuous nor vicious. They're just in the middle and
34:55
they'll just go with the tide of popular opinion with what's
34:58
comfortable in the moment. So what?
35:01
What is it that that you have that allowed you to be so
35:07
countercultural? I don't know, I've just since I
35:16
was a since I was young, like since I'm not like a kid kid,
35:20
but like since I was young. I remember in heist in high
35:27
school, I remember the first, the first time I ever felt like
35:38
I was really in a situation where I had to do the right
35:42
thing on account of, but it, it, it meant losing friendships I
35:52
was in, I was in high school and our youth director, there was a
35:56
group of people did not like him and he was a good man, but
36:00
there's a group of people that did not like him.
36:02
And so my best friend, we went on youth youth camp that summer
36:09
and my best friend made-up a story.
36:13
I think her family told her to do it made-up a story about him
36:16
coming into the shower area where we were showering.
36:22
And it was not true. And I knew it wasn't true
36:25
because I had been with her the entire time.
36:29
And and there the IT had, you know, spread enough where the
36:35
church was voting on on kicking him out of the church and him
36:43
losing his job and not just losing his job, but I mean, this
36:46
was a scandalous like for his reputation.
36:49
And I remember when it happened, I remember going to my parents
36:52
and just saying, you know, mom and dad, like, I know this
36:55
didn't happen. I know this is a lie.
36:58
And I confronted my friend about it and had told her you're not
37:04
telling the truth. And she basically was just kind
37:08
of like, I'm just doing what my mom is telling me to do.
37:11
And I was, you know, maybe a sophomore, junior.
37:17
I think I was a sophomore maybe in high school.
37:21
And I told my parents. My parents were like, well, you
37:24
need to go to that business meeting we're having, and you
37:27
need to stand up and tell the truth.
37:30
And so I did. And I got up there and I told
37:36
the truth and directly contradicted what my best friend
37:41
had said. And she was sitting right there.
37:46
And then she got up and admitted that her mom had just told her
37:51
to say that. And you know, this man, this
37:56
lovely man of God was vindicated.
38:00
And I remember that for I remember that was the first time
38:05
I'd ever felt like justice had won out.
38:12
And it, it, I remember that feeling like I want to feel that
38:18
again, you know, like I, I just remember being like, wow, that I
38:25
want to keep doing that. And I think it's that feeling.
38:36
I think Planned Parenthood saw that in me, and I think they
38:40
perverted that to convince me that I was going to fight for
38:46
justice for women because there's this evil group of
38:53
people wanting to take away their rights.
38:57
And so it becomes very perverted and it becomes, you know, you're
39:05
fighting for women's rights and you're fighting for justice.
39:08
And so it kind of gives you that same high and but it's wrong,
39:17
you know, because you have to completely detach yourself from
39:20
the child who's really the victim.
39:22
You don't think about them at all.
39:24
It's it's only about the women. It's, it's never about the
39:31
tragedy of what's actually occurring for the woman to have
39:35
that right to murder. And and so I think I think it's
39:45
something that like God's just always kind of given me that,
39:49
that courage to do it. I think it's just kind of like a
39:52
personality thing. But I also think my parents
39:54
always encourage that. You know, my parents were always
39:58
like, you do the right thing no matter the cost.
40:03
And they always encouraged me to use my mouth and to say what I
40:07
believe. On my report cards, I always had
40:14
excessive talking marked on my report cards.
40:18
So my parents knew that my mouth was going to be one way that I
40:24
became successful one day. But they never stifled that.
40:29
They always just encouraged it and, and they all my parents
40:35
always wanted to help me find facts and to do the research.
40:44
And you know, I, and I do have to say, like even when I was on
40:50
the wrong side of the abortion debate, my parents were always,
40:58
I know it was really hard for my parents during that time because
41:01
my parents were very pro-life, but my parents were always proud
41:06
of me, even though they hated what I was doing.
41:11
They saw their daughter climbing up the ladder of this, you know,
41:16
multibillion dollar organization.
41:20
And they had taught me this intense work ethic, right?
41:24
Whatever you're doing, you work hard at it.
41:27
And so they saw me working very hard at my job.
41:32
And so on one hand, they were disgusted with what I was doing,
41:36
but on the other hand, they were very proud that I was working so
41:40
hard and I was doing the work I was, I was, you know, working
41:46
hard like they had taught me to do.
41:49
And so they never caused like a rift in our relationship.
41:54
I knew where they stood. They made that very clear that
41:57
they did not agree with what I was doing.
42:01
But you know, when I would get awards or something like that,
42:07
my parents would say, they would always say things like, we're
42:10
really proud of how hard you work.
42:15
And I think that's important. I think that's an important take
42:20
away for parents because there's a lot of parents out there who,
42:26
you know, their kids have gone wild or they're living a
42:29
lifestyle that maybe the parents don't understand.
42:32
And you know, my word to them is please don't ever let choices
42:43
your kids make that are honestly, they could be fleeting
42:48
choices. They're they could be temporary
42:50
choices. Don't ever let the choices that
42:53
your children make cause a permanent separation in your
42:58
relationship with your children, no matter what they are.
43:04
You know, I mean, I worked at Planned Parenthood for eight
43:06
years and I know my parents were like, Oh my gosh, she's never
43:10
going to leave. You know, I know there were
43:12
times that they felt hopeless, but they prayed everyday and
43:21
they never gave up. And so then when I did leave, I
43:25
knew that my parents were still there because they had always
43:29
been there. And it's the same like, even if
43:33
your kids are, you know, dealing with homosexuality or whatever,
43:38
and you say, no, no, it's just, it's that's who they are now.
43:41
It's become who they are. Like you don't know that you
43:46
don't know what what kind of conversion your kids can have.
43:51
And so I would just encourage people to keep that relationship
43:55
open. Always keep that relationship
43:57
open. Don't ever separate yourself
44:01
from your children. The the bond there is too
44:04
important. They sound like incredible
44:07
people and great. They are great parents and
44:11
you're an incredible person. Abby talking with you kind of
44:16
have the one of these strange experiences where I feel like
44:20
kind of stepping outside of time in that I feel like we've
44:24
already won the battle just because we we found our Lord so
44:29
and we're doing our best each day and that's it.
44:32
That's all we need to do. Yeah, that's all we have to do.
44:35
Like the victory is is there, you know, like we have the
44:40
victory. We just have to work every day
44:45
and save as many lives as we can until he returns.
44:51
And that's that's the call. And honestly, it's not that
44:54
hard. I mean, people act like.
44:58
It really isn't. I mean, life is short.
45:00
It's really not like it's not. Hard.
45:01
What do we have to lose anyway? People are like, like, they act
45:06
like life is so hard. And I'm like, what is it like
45:12
you really have? I mean, like, yeah, we have jobs
45:15
we have to do, you know, to pay our bills and stuff.
45:18
But most of the time, like, finances are hard because we're
45:21
living too lavishly. So live within your means.
45:28
Get rid of the things you don't need.
45:32
That will make your life a lot simpler.
45:34
That's what we've learned in our family.
45:39
It's hard when we're fighting our own conscience.
45:42
Yeah, but like, and then talk about Jesus as much as you can.
45:48
I mean, that's really why we're here.
45:50
It is just to bring people to God.
45:54
So. And that's like an easy task,
45:56
really. Just be in relationship with
46:00
people and treat them like Jesus would treat them.
46:06
If they yell at you, don't yell back.
46:09
If they yell at you, offer them, offer them hope.
46:15
Ask questions. Well, how did Jesus answer
46:18
questions with questions? I mean, just be that that drink
46:26
of water to them that they obviously so desperately need.
46:31
And it's really, it's really not hard.
46:38
I mean, everybody acts like, like the world is just like
46:42
crumbling around, you know, grumbling down around us and all
46:46
this. And I'm like, you know what
46:49
guys? I sit on my front porch and I
46:52
watch my 8 kids playing, you know, with each other and the
46:56
front lawn and I just think, wow, like I'm just really
47:01
blessed. And it's so much about mindset,
47:06
you know, just being thankful for what we have and seeing the
47:10
blessings that are in front of us and, and living in that
47:16
blessing and appreciating what God has given us, you know?
47:22
So. Yeah.
47:24
Well if you if you don't mind, I'm going to end by highlighting
47:27
1 testimony you gave without realizing.
47:30
It's perhaps which is about 1/3 through the conversation.
47:35
Your son walked in I guess from school, took a sip of your coke
47:40
and then stared at the camera for a while then walked away.
47:43
For those listening rather than watching and and it didn't faze
47:47
you at all. And you showed him physical
47:50
affection without breaking stride.
47:53
And I think that's such a powerful witness for moms that
47:57
hey, and you can have eight kids and that's not, I mean, that's
48:01
not that difficult either. I don't want to, I mean, I'm not
48:03
in that position. No, it's not.
48:04
Like people are like, hey kids, how do you do it?
48:07
And I'm like, I don't know. We just do it like, like it's
48:12
not like I had eight kids at one time.
48:14
Like they just, I did have twins.
48:17
So we did have two come in at one time, but one of our kids is
48:21
adopted. That was completely unplanned.
48:25
We never planned on adopting a child when one of our children
48:28
was six months old, but a baby needed a home.
48:32
And we said yes. And that's really, that's kind
48:35
of my husband and I's philosophy, I guess, in our
48:38
marriage, in our life, is that if Jesus gives the opportunity,
48:42
we say yes. Just hands down, like, you know,
48:47
if we feel like, OK, God has ordained this, it's a yes every
48:51
time. It's a yes, it's a yes.
48:53
And it's fun. It's a fun way to live.
48:59
Actually. It's kind of like, I don't know
49:02
if you ever saw that movie, like Yes Day.
49:04
And it was like, yeah, it was the the Jim Carrey 1.
49:07
Yeah, Jim Carrey, like. Yes, it's a yes.
49:09
I didn't. Know, but I know the gist of it,
49:10
yeah. Yeah.
49:11
And that's kind of how we are. We're like, we pray about it.
49:15
If we feel good about it, we're like, yeah, you know, and it has
49:21
served us well. And, and it's, it makes life fun
49:27
and interesting for the kids. And, and we generally say yes to
49:35
them too. I mean, if they're like even
49:38
just in like little things, you know, like we're kind of sitting
49:41
around 1:00 Saturday and they're like, hey, can we go on a hike
49:45
or like. Yeah, if it's not a sin, let's
49:48
do it. I mean.
49:50
There's a. Lot of things we're going to say
49:51
no to our kids too, so let's say yes to the things that are that
49:54
are good. You know, I mean, you know,
49:57
they're like, hey, can we like go roller skating?
50:01
We're like yes, like we get you. I mean, whatever it.
50:05
Is I mean. We're like, yeah, we'll do it,
50:08
You know, and I think it, I think, you know, keeping video
50:15
games out of your house, keeping your kids active and being
50:20
active with them is a really, really important part of life.
50:25
You know, I'm terrible at basketball, but if my kids are
50:29
like, mom, will you come shoot hoops with us?
50:31
I'm like, yes, I will. And I'll miss every single shot,
50:37
but I will go do it because when my kids asked me to do
50:42
something, I always want them to be able to say my mom always did
50:47
it. If she asked, she did it.
50:50
And I think that's an important part of being a parent and being
50:54
in relationship with your children and, and my children
50:59
are part of my work. You know, I mean, if we go out
51:02
to an abortion clinic to pray, they go with me.
51:08
You know, I haven't. I don't hide the reality of, of
51:13
abortion. We live in Austin, TX, which is
51:18
like super liberal, super like gay positive, you know, So my
51:26
kids wanted to go to this lake to swim one day.
51:32
And we were like, yeah, let's go, We'll swim.
51:35
And there were like 2, you know, gay guys being super
51:38
affectionate to each other, inappropriately affectionate.
51:41
Like it, it would, it would be uncomfortable as a guy and a
51:44
girl too. Like it was just gross.
51:46
And my kids were like, like, what is going on?
51:51
You know? And I just was like, well, I was
51:56
like, you know, sometimes people have sinful relationships and
52:03
that's not normal. It's outside of natural law.
52:08
It's outside of the order that God has given us for marriage
52:12
for a man and a woman to be together.
52:16
And, and they were just like, cool.
52:20
Like, I mean, so we just, we don't hide it from them.
52:25
We don't, you know, we're not like, Oh my God, don't look at
52:28
that. Don't you know, we're just kind
52:29
of like, let's just explain this.
52:33
Sin abounds in our society. Let's make our kids prepared to
52:38
see it, to encounter it, and to have a biblical justification
52:44
for their worldview, you know? And so that's what we do.
52:49
And our kids aren't perfect, you know, and we're certainly not
52:52
perfect parents. We've made a lot of mistakes,
52:56
but we are a very, very fun family and and I and I would say
53:03
people ask me if having eight kids is hard and I tell them all
53:06
the time, no, it's actually been easier the more kids we've had.
53:09
Yes, well, it's like raising the first generation of Christians
53:17
in the Roman Empire. That's hey, look, we're not
53:20
going to this is the empire. I mean, we can't protect them
53:23
from everything, but what we can do is open up to the grace of
53:26
the Holy Spirit. Well, thank you, Abby.
53:28
It's really been a privilege to talk to you.
53:29
I I really appreciate it and I hope your message goes out to
53:32
all the world. Thank you.