Latest / Silver FM 100.6 / The reasons you procrastinate -- and how to finally stop

Transcript

The reasons you procrastinate -- and how to finally stop · Silver FM 100.6

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• 0:13
  Speaker 2: You can say, I'm on a quest, or I'm battling
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: the dragon of procrastination, or you can visualize it as
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: a journey. But the really important thing is to figure
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  Speaker 2: out what is going to motivate you.
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  Speaker 3: When I was a kid, my dad took us to
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  Speaker 3: the park, and he just wanted us to learn math.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: that it's important to clean up your public spaces, and
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  Speaker 3: people would leave their trash in the park. And so
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: we picked up the trash, but we were pretending that
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: we were like pirates. So we'd pick up clothes hangers
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  Speaker 3: and be fighting with them like they were swords, and
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  Speaker 3: we would have the plastic bags or whatever and tie
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: them as bandanas.
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  Speaker 4: This is what I remember.
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  Speaker 3: That then grew into a whole scene in my mind
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  Speaker 3: and made the task much more fun.
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  Speaker 1: Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And ultimately, you're doing the same thing, but you're getting
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  Speaker 2: yourself to feel much more excited about it. You're reframing
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  Speaker 2: it in a way that makes it feel much more fun.
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  Speaker 4: You're listening to Life Kit. I'm Mariel Segarra. And you
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  Speaker 4: just heard from Itamar Schatz.
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  Speaker 3: He's a social science lecturer at Cambridge University and author
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  Speaker 3: of the book, Solving Procrastination.
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  Speaker 4: Which it would be great to solve. Although if you
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  Speaker 4: do procrastinate and who doesn't, right? Give yourself a break.
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  Speaker 4: there's an evolutionary reason you do it.
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  Speaker 2: Procrastination, at its core, is ultimately driven by our mind
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  Speaker 2: pushing us to pursue immediate pleasure and avoid immediate pain.
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  Speaker 2: Let's say we have to do something like write an email.
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  Speaker 2: If we feel scared for some reason, maybe we're worried
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  Speaker 2: that it will go wrong, we're worried we'll be criticized
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  Speaker 2: for it, our brain says, you know what? It would
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  Speaker 2: be better if instead of doing this, maybe you could just,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, browse social media right now, or watch
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  Speaker 2: one more video, or do whatever else that will help
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  Speaker 2: you avoid doing this. The problem is that in the
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  Speaker 2: modern world, this kind of response doesn't work for us
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  Speaker 2: because we're not dealing with the problem that we should
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  Speaker 2: have been dealing with.
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  Speaker 3: On this episode of Life Kit, battling the dragon of procrastination.
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  Speaker 3: Starting here, Itamar says one big reason we procrastinate is
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  Speaker 3: that the task itself seems unpleasant. So what we need
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  Speaker 3: to do is make it more pleasant and thus more
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  Speaker 3: appealing to take action. I think of this as the
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  Speaker 3: Mary Poppins principle. A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine
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  Speaker 3: go down in the most delightful way.
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  Speaker 2: One thing you can do to make a task more
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  Speaker 2: pleasant is something called temptation bundling. And that's when we
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  Speaker 2: take something that we really want to do, like listen
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  Speaker 2: to an audiobook or listen to energizing music or something
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  Speaker 2: else that we find enticing and pairing that up with
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  Speaker 2: a task we don't want to do. So the way
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  Speaker 2: we might do this is say, you know, I really
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  Speaker 2: don't want to go running, but I really want to
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  Speaker 2: listen to my favorite audiobook. So I'm only going to
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  Speaker 2: let myself listen to this audiobook when I'm going running.
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  Speaker 2: Another thing you can do is trying to make tasks
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  Speaker 2: that we dislike less aversive. An example of this is,
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  Speaker 2: let's say you decide you want to go exercising after
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  Speaker 2: you get home from work. And you notice that even
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  Speaker 2: though you're really motivated to do it, in practice, once
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  Speaker 2: you get home, you kind of end up sitting there
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  Speaker 2: and maybe wasting a bit of time and your motivation
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  Speaker 2: ends up fizzling out. And in that case, what might
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  Speaker 2: be the issue is that before you go to the gym,
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  Speaker 2: you have to get your bag ready and pack everything
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  Speaker 2: up And that's kind of a bummer. And in that case,
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  Speaker 2: what you can do is say, you know what? I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to separate these two tasks. I'm going to deal
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  Speaker 2: with this bag thing the day before when I'm motivated
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  Speaker 2: and when I know that I don't have to take
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  Speaker 2: it with me yet. And then the day after when
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  Speaker 2: you're back home from work and you're feeling maybe a
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  Speaker 2: bit more tired, it's already there.
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  Speaker 4: Takeaway one, make it more appealing to take action.
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  Speaker 3: You can try temptation bundling where you basically give yourself
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  Speaker 3: a little treat.
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  Speaker 4: Like watching your favorite show when you do the task.
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  Speaker 3: You can do some of the work ahead of time,
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  Speaker 3: pack for the trip, or wash those fruits and vegetables
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  Speaker 3: so the task doesn't seem so involved when you have to.
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  Speaker 4: Do it later. And you can gamify.
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  Speaker 3: Try sprinting through the task, doing it as quickly as
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  Speaker 3: possible and seeing how much progress you could make. Or,
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  Speaker 3: you know, pretend you're a pirate or that you can
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: make your clothes levitate themselves back into your wardrobe. Coming up,
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  Speaker 3: we talk about perfectionism and how it can lead to procrastination.
• 4:27
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  Speaker 6: This season on Planet Money Summer School, we have drilled
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• 5:14
  Speaker 7: Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of Fresh Air. As we
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: mourn the loss of the great Dolly Parton, it feels
• 5:20
  Speaker 7: good to listen back to her reflecting on her life
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: and to hear some of her Dolly-isms. I always say
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  Speaker 7: that it's a good thing I was a woman, because
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  Speaker 7: if I'd have been a man, I would have been
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  Speaker 7: a drag queen, just because I'm so damn gaudy. We've
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• 5:40
  Speaker 3: One reason I procrastinate is that I want to do
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  Speaker 3: a good job, and that seems like it's going to
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  Speaker 3: take too much energy, so I do nothing instead. Maybe
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  Speaker 3: the problem is not that I'm trying to do a
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  Speaker 3: good job, but that I'm trying to do a perfect job.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't want to fall short of that goal.
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  Speaker 4: Itamar says, if.
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  Speaker 3: This is true for you, if perfectionism is driving your procrastination.
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  Speaker 2: What I would recommend is figure out what specifically good
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  Speaker 2: enough means for you. Get yourself to be okay with
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  Speaker 2: it and then focus on achieving it. So let's say
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  Speaker 2: you want to share a book that you're writing with people.
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  Speaker 2: Perfectionism in this case can be sort of a defense
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  Speaker 2: mechanism where you're saying, I just got to keep revising it.
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  Speaker 2: I got to keep revising it. I got to revise
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  Speaker 2: it again and again. And there it's protecting you from
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  Speaker 2: criticism because it's giving you a reason not to share it.
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  Speaker 2: And what you can do in that case and say,
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  Speaker 2: you know what? My good enough point is when I
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  Speaker 2: go over it, not actually finding any changes to implement.
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  Speaker 2: And once you find that particular position, you can say,
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  Speaker 2: when I get here, I'm going to send it out
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  Speaker 2: because that is when it is good enough.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think about that too with speaking Spanish. I'm
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  Speaker 3: Puerto Rican on my dad's side, but I'm not a
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  Speaker 3: native speaker, so I can get in my own head
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  Speaker 3: a lot about it and think I'm never going to
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  Speaker 3: be perfect at this. I'm an outsider. And it gets
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  Speaker 3: to that point, though, of like aiming for good enough.
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  Speaker 3: What is good enough? It's being able to to speak
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  Speaker 3: Spanish to my family and understand them. You know, it's
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  Speaker 3: being able to do ancestry research and and maybe read
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  Speaker 3: some books in Spanish. Like, that's my goal.
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  Speaker 2: I would even say for today, you can say, my
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  Speaker 2: goal today is to learn a word that I did
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  Speaker 2: not do yesterday. My goal for tomorrow is to add
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  Speaker 2: one more word to that and just tackle it one
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  Speaker 2: step at a time instead of looking at the very
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  Speaker 2: end goal, finding those steps that we can focus on
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  Speaker 2: along the way. If there weren't any mistakes and you
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  Speaker 2: knew everything perfectly, it wouldn't be really language learning. It
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  Speaker 2: would be just downloading the language.
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  Speaker 3: Takeaway two, get comfortable with good enough and let yourself
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  Speaker 3: make mistakes.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
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  Speaker 3: We've been talking about ways that we can make it
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  Speaker 3: more appealing.
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  Speaker 4: To take action.
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  Speaker 3: What about if the reason you're procrastinating is that you
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  Speaker 3: think the task is meaningless?
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  Speaker 2: So when we evolved, most of the tasks were very visceral.
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  Speaker 2: It was get shelter or freeze to death, find food
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  Speaker 2: or starve, run from the slime or get eaten. And
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  Speaker 2: now a lot of the tasks feel much more meaningless
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  Speaker 2: or nebulous. And there could be things like gather all
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  Speaker 2: these receipts, send them to your accountant so that you
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  Speaker 2: don't get a letter from IRS in, I don't know,
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  Speaker 2: a year or whatever it is. And that's much harder
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  Speaker 2: for our brain to feel connected to and to feel
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  Speaker 2: excited about. And there are a few things you can
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  Speaker 2: do there. One is to find the meaning. And that
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  Speaker 2: could be, okay, that's true that this whole task is
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  Speaker 2: a bit nebulous and meaningless, but let's think about the
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  Speaker 2: bad outcome here. That might be that I go to jail.
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  Speaker 2: That might be that I get fired. That might be
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  Speaker 2: that I feel bad. And basically trying to get yourself
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  Speaker 2: to think about the actual outcomes and make them feel
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  Speaker 2: much more concrete. And the other thing you can do
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  Speaker 2: in this kind of situation is to reframe the task.
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  Speaker 2: So sometimes we get tasks that just feel meaningless and
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  Speaker 2: there's not much we can do about them. In those
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  Speaker 2: kind of situations, what you can do is reframe it
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  Speaker 2: a bit by thinking, this task is meaningless. I'm not
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  Speaker 2: excited about it, fair enough. But I'm a person who
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  Speaker 2: gets things done. I'm a reliable individual. I'm a productive person.
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  Speaker 2: So my goal for finishing this as quickly as possible
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  Speaker 2: isn't to show that I care about this task, but
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  Speaker 2: to show that I care about getting things done.
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  Speaker 3: Takeaway three, when a task feels unimportant, see if you
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  Speaker 3: can find the meaning. Like, okay, I don't want to
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  Speaker 3: do this paperwork. It's a lot of bureaucracy, but I
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: do want to grow my business, and so this is necessary.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Or if you can't find meaning in the task itself,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: find identity. I am a reliable, productive person who gets
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: things done. After the break, we get acquainted with our
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: future selves.
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: This week on Shortwave, you are what you eat may
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: not be a phrase you associate with your mental health, but.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: One in three people have insulin resistance.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: In our country.
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: And if you have insulin resistance, you are double the
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: likelihood of developing major depression. We explore the link between
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: your body and your brain.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Listen on Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I wonder, are there scenarios where we might decide that
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  Speaker 3: a task is something you.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: actually don't need to do?
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  Speaker 2: In my eyes, the best thing is to connect to
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  Speaker 2: your future self and think about whether they will regret
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  Speaker 2: your decision. So when you say, I really want to
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  Speaker 2: speak Spanish, but I'm kind of worried it will come
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: off awkward or maybe I'll mispronounce words. Let's think about
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  Speaker 2: my future self. How will my future self feel if
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  Speaker 2: I do give this a shot, even if I make mistakes,
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  Speaker 2: or if I decide not.
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  Speaker 1: To do it?
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  Speaker 2: And basically trying to visualize the How much regret will
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  Speaker 2: your future self feel and empathize with them?
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  Speaker 3: There are certain things too that are like, it feels
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  Speaker 3: like you could do them at any time. Like the
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  Speaker 3: stakes are not that high if I don't speak Spanish today.
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  Speaker 3: But then at the same time, if I don't speak
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  Speaker 3: Spanish any day, then I don't speak Spanish today. And
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: you could use that test and say, how would my
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  Speaker 3: future self feel about this? But my future self wouldn't
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: care too much if I spoke Spanish today, but they'd
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  Speaker 3: want me to be practicing so that they had that
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  Speaker 3: tool available to them.
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: Then you can decide to do it on two levels.
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  Speaker 2: One is, okay, what will tomorrow me think? And what
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: will me a month from now think? And try to
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: think what both of them will care about.
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  Speaker 3: It occurs to me that this step also requires some imagination.
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  Speaker 3: picturing your future self and empathizing with your future self.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: I've read one example of this is if you are
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  Speaker 3: not currently saving for retirement, that it can help to
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  Speaker 3: think about you at retirement age.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: And, you know, you probably look a little different then.
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  Speaker 3: And think about the freedom that you'll have if you
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  Speaker 3: set aside that nest egg now, the gift that you're
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  Speaker 3: giving to yourself.
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  Speaker 1: Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And basically... The issue that can happen is that there
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  Speaker 2: is something called temporal disjunction or self-discontinuity, where we feel
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  Speaker 2: that our future self is separate from us. And that
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  Speaker 2: makes us care about them less, which in practice means
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  Speaker 2: caring about ourselves less. And empathizing with our future self
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  Speaker 2: is a way to overcome that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost this idea that you're like, well, I'm
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  Speaker 3: never going to get old or I'm never going to die.
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  Speaker 3: We know that these things happen. but we don't really
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  Speaker 3: believe that they're going to happen to us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagining what retirement will look like in decades is
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  Speaker 2: not something our brains were designed for. We were meant
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  Speaker 2: to focus on the immediate much more. But because that's
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  Speaker 2: no longer really an option for us today, it's important
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  Speaker 2: to get our brains to think about not just the immediate,
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  Speaker 2: but also about what will be better for us in
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  Speaker 2: the longer term.
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  Speaker 4: Takeaway four, empathize with future you.
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  Speaker 3: If you delay this task, will you regret it later?
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  Speaker 4: If you do it today... How does future you benefit? Remember,
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  Speaker 4: future you is you.
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  Speaker 3: Now, so far in this episode, we've been talking about procrastination,
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  Speaker 3: which Itamar says is unhealthy delay, pushing off a task,
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  Speaker 3: even though that's going to harm you or make things
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: more difficult.
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  Speaker 4: But sometimes it makes sense to delay.
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  Speaker 3: And sometimes, yes, we're putting off one task, but we're
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  Speaker 3: doing a different one that also needs to get done.
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  Speaker 3: That is called productive procrastination.
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  Speaker 2: When I was writing the book, I actually did this
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  Speaker 2: a lot. So I structured the way I wanted to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: write the book, and it was very sequentially. And then
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  Speaker 2: sometimes I noticed that when I'm writing, I just feel
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: this inner resistance to writing a certain part. And initially
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I tried to force myself to write it, and then
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I realized, you know what? What matters ultimately is that
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I make progress every single day. It doesn't matter if
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I write this particular part right now, or if I
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: skip to a different part that I feel like writing today.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: And basically I gave myself permission to say, right now
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I should be working on chapter 15, But for some reason,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I woke up today and I feel like working on
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: chapter 22 and then just gave myself permission to do that.
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  Speaker 2: And ultimately, that was much more productive than trying to
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: stick to a strict schedule because the book still gets
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: done at the same time, but it actually makes the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: whole process much easier and just feel much.
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  Speaker 1: Better as well.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that. Because I also think sometimes you're
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: in the mood for or equipped in the moment for
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: a certain kind of work and not for a different
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: kind of work.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And that's why two of my biggest tips, one is
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: around ride the waves of your productivity rhythms. So figure
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: out when you're ready to handle certain tasks and then
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: schedule the task for those times. So maybe in theory,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: you should open your day with emails, but actually you
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: realize that in the morning before you've started, that's when
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you concentrate best. So you're going to schedule the deep
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: work for that time when you're fresh and then do
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  Speaker 2: emails after. Or maybe technically dishes aren't the first thing
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  Speaker 2: you should do when you get home. But realistically, you're
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: so tired for the first half an hour that you
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: might as well do something mindless. Give yourself some time
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: to unwind and just do it then.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: What is the most surprising thing you learned about procrastination
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: in studying and in writing this?
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  Speaker 2: I think when I set out, the focus was really
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: on overcoming procrastination. And the more... I read, and the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: more I learned, the more I realized it's important to
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes know when to cut ourselves slack. And I think
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that's one of the things I've really shifted on in
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: terms of how important it is to give ourselves self-compassion,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: how important it is to realize not only when we
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: should stop procrastinating, but also when it just doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 2: And we can say, you know what? I'm procrastinating. It's
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: been my procrastination.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
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  Speaker 2: Or I'm procrastinating, but I'm being productive. I'm still going
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to get to whatever it is I need to do
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: at the end. But right now I'm going to do
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: something else because otherwise I'm going to just waste time.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And this basically all revolves around kind of planning for
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the very imperfect humans that we are as opposed to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: the perfect machines we sometimes.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Wish we were.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: Itamar, thank you so much.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: It was a pleasure.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, time for a recap. Takeaway one, make it more
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: appealing to take action. You can try temptation bundling or
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: do some of the work ahead.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: Of time or gamify. Takeaway two, get comfortable with.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Good enough and let yourself make mistakes. Takeaway three, when
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: a task feels unimportant, see if you can find the meaning.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Or if you can't find meaning in the task itself,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: find identity. I am a reliable, productive person who gets
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: things done. Takeaway four, empathize with future you. If you
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: delay this task, will you regret it? If you do
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: it now, how does future you benefit? Remember, future you
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: is you.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: And they appreciate all you do for them. All right,
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: that's our show.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: If you love Life Kit and you want even more,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: follow us on Instagram, at.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: NPR Life Kit.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: There you'll find videos featuring our favorite tips and musings.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: And you'll get to see our faces. Again, that's at
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: NPR Life Kit.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: It was edited by Rebecca Ramirez. Our digital editor is
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Malika Garib, and our visuals editor is CJ Rikulan. Megan
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Cain is our senior supervising editor. and Lauren Gonzalez is
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tegel,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Claire Marie Schneider, and Margaret Serino. Engineering support comes from
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Travis Hagen. Fact-checking by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. I'm Mariel Segarra.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
• 17:38
  Speaker 8: How do products end up on big box shelves? Well,
• 17:41
  Speaker 8: we at Planet Money pitch the Planet Money board game.
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: I'm trying not to think how much of a big
• 17:47
  Speaker 8: deal it is and how much work has gone into it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It's really big.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Is it helpful if I remind you how big it is?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: It's sort of the whole thing.
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: We go inside the minds of the people who decide
• 17:57
  Speaker 8: what goes on store shelves. Listen to Planet Money on
• 18:00
  Speaker 8: the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 18:03
  Speaker 9: Hi there, I'm Brittany Luce. And not to brag, but
• 18:06
  Speaker 9: I host a really fabulous podcast. It's called It's Been
• 18:10
  Speaker 9: a Minute. I love making it and I think you'll
• 18:12
  Speaker 9: love listening to it. Over the last year, hundreds of
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: thousands of listeners have been tuning in. And I gotta say,
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: if you haven't yet, you're missing out. Listen to the
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.