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UWindsor student says campus is unsafe for openly proud Jews · Kvetch & Release

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Hey, folks, we're back. John McKee here on an eight hundred ckl
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W. Hope you're all doing well today. Interesting article. You know,
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when Windsor gets coverage in the media, I kind of outside of Windsor,
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I've had a general rule of thumb which is like, ooh, not great.
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Like I don't like when I see Windsor pop up as like a keyword
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or a tag, because it's usually something that's not the best story. And
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the rule is being kept right now, I came across this one that was
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shared with me Anti Semitism on Campus The Reality for Jewish University Students in Canada,
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and it is written by a University of Windsor student who is in the
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Faculty of Law, and it shares her experiences about anti Semitism on Ontario university
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campuses. She went for her undergraduate degree at Western and it talks about how
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what it's like to deal with derogatory comments professor are singling students out because of
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their beliefs, or their values, or of who they are. And at
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the University of Windsor only about zero point two percent of the student body identifies
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as Jewish. But I've got a the president of the University of Windsor Jewish
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Student Association joining me right now to discuss what the reality is like on campus.
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And I should be clear we've reached out to the University of Windsor to
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get their comment on this. We're waiting to hear back if we're able to
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get that in the show today. We really would love to hear from them.
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Joining me right now in studio is Justin Hebert, who is the University
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of Windsor Jewish Student Association President. How you doing, Justin, Hi,
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as it going? Doing as good as I can for you? I guess
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in these times things have definitely seemed to cool down, at least around the
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campus, around city, just most because nobody's here. But I would say
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for the most what I'm doing great and I really appreciate having me on.
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Thank you so much for joining. So when you have read this personal experience
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that this author of this article, Sidney green Spoon and wrote, and again
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we reached out to Sydney as well to come on, does that comport with
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what your experiences are like at the University of Windsor as a Jewish student.
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So a lot of it does sort of ring true. I mean it also
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just happens to be that a lot of what she was writing about I was
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experiencing concurrently. Because we're part of the same circle, we're part of the
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same organization. A lot of things that were affecting her on a personal level
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was affecting all of us as a whole. So oftentimes I was privy to
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a lot of the communication that ended up being discriminatory in nature. I was
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always included in the conversations that was being had, so I can definitely say
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I could also just you know, lend some validity to experiences. I witnessed
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it, I saw it. I feel like there's always a lot of pushback
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on social media, people who are willing to discredit these experiences. People are
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willing to call her a liar. That was something that I found was overwhelmingly
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present. After she'd posted it. Almost every single comment on Twitter or formally
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x or on any commas other social media platform was basically doing anything they could
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to sort of discredit it. And so if nothing nothing else, I can
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be here today and just say that everything she said was completely true, and
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everything she said was not just her speaking on her behalf, that's speaking on
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behalf of students all over campus. So we first started speaking just in a
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couple months ago, and there was an instance on campus involving the campus radio
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station, the Sea Jam. They had reached out to you asking for the
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Jewish Students' Association to provide a voice about Holocaust Rememberance Day. What you did
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the interview, It went swimmingly by all accounts, what I was told was
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posted onto the web and then within thirty minutes it was scrubbed and a whole
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fire storm has ensued. Yeah, what was that experience? Like? Yeah,
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I don't know how many details we want to go into, but I
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remember specifically when I was after being kept in the dark for about a week
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as to why the segment had been taken down, And I feel like it's
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important to note before I go into anything any more details about this. Before
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agreeing to go on the radio station, I made it very very clear at
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the outset that because we had such a limited amount of time to talk about
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such an important topic to me, which is Holocaust Remembrance Day, there was
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only about a week or so after February twenty seventh, which was Holocaust Remembrance
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Day, and to commemorate that, we had two survivors who were both you
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know, sharing their experiences of essentially growing up as children are teenagers in concentration
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camps. And like I said, we only had about ten to fifteen minutes
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to talk about this, so I wanted to make sure that we give this
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incredibly important topic as much time as it needs to be discussed in depth,
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and also to avoid any undue political discourse that might take away from this very
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very sensitive topic and very crucial topic. And the station had agreed, they
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said this wouldn't have any kind of political dimension whatsoever, that has to do
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with the conflict overseas, that has to do with any kind of geopolitical issues,
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any kind of issues in campus relating to the current climate. And as
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John said, everything went swimmingly. There were no issues and a list of
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words that I did not use in my interview. I did not talk about
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Israel. I did not talk about Palestine. I did not talk about Gaza.
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I did not talk about October seventh. And one of the things that
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I also deeply regret now in hindsight, is that I didn't even use the
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word genocide because I wanted to exercise as much expression as possible to not say
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anything that might trigger anybody or sort of invoke any images it might might be
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going on in the world today. And I think the fact that a Jewish
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student would have to exercise that kind of self censorship in describing the Holocaust without
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using the word genocide, I think is in its own way shameful. But
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in hindsight, like I said, it didn't end up mattering because the reason
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that I was given for why the segment had been pulled in the first place
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was that apparently had it offended a number of students that were working at the
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station. And even though this offend it offended students the mention, what would
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be offensive about having an interview about Holocaust Rememberence day and people who experienced the
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Holocaust? Oh, that's a million dollar question. Evidently, the specific words
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that were used was that it was problematic or offensive. I can't remember specifically
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what was said, but apparently students who were volunteering, both students and staff
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who were volunteering at CGM, were deeply upset or deeply offended that I spoke
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about the Holocaust without also mentioning what they considered to be the genocide unfolding in
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Gaza. Okay, so it's the both sides as they saw that, and
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they got mad that it was a one sided conversation, even though that was
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presented from the radio station as such. Okay, I get that. I
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think let's put that issue outside right now, because I think it kind of
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speaks to, I suppose, just the growing unease of what it must be
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like just to exist as a Jew on campus. I went to the University
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of Windsor graduated in twenty fourteen, so a decade ago. You know,
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there were some instances. There was the BDS vote that had occurred in twenty
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fourteen, and it had failed due to procedural issues that had occurred. It
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doesn't seem like it was anything like what it is now then, No,
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it's it's definitely not. In fact, I mean you're probably familiar with the
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fact that BDS had passed at the UWSA, and I believe it also passed
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with the Faculty Union, correct Faculty Association Faculty Association rather, and so that
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was a whole other end that was that was a whole other experience for us.
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I mean, we were about eight Jewish students who had showed up to
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the general meeting to basically vote on you know, the different emotions that made
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up the BDS, you know, and it it felt like it was regardless
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of whether or not we were there, it was going to pass. We
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were eight students speaking out, you know, against you know, emotion that
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had support from literally hundreds of students who were present there, and it did
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seem that no matter what we proposed in terms of amendments, because you know,
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as many of our fellow you know, as many of our fellow Jewish
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students pointed out, there were several provisions that just were either too vague or
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opened up the possibility of being discriminatory, or you know, otherwise just not
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being practical. So what was supposed to be a two or three hour you
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know motion vote ended up being about five hours we were there, and even
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though it passed, you know, nonetheless, I think it kind of spoke
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to the fact that, you know, there is this incredible responsibility when you're
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a Jewis student on campus, and that is, no matter how much of
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a minority you actually are, no matter how limited your voice actually is,
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you absolutely cannot let somebody else write your narrative. You absolutely cannot let somebody
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else write your story. Well, one story though that's being identified here by
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Sidney in this piece that was published in the Times of Israel. As she
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says, though instances of anti Semitism would ebb and flow, after October seventh,
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they became an almost daily occurrence. She goes on to write, I
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would now characterize you Windsor as an unsafe place to be an openly proud Jew.
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It is a campus that fosters hate and allows anti Semitism to flourish,
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forcing Jewish, the few Jewish students to hide any sign of our Jewish identity
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in fear for our physical and psychological safety. This is the new reality.
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I realized my life would never be the same as a Jewish student a few
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hours into October seventh, the day of the worst massacre the Jewish nation has
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experienced since the Holocaust. Those are strong words dress him and totally accurate,
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and you feel this is totally accurate. I feel that way also, and
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I think it takes a lot of courage to be an openly identifying Jewis student
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on campus right now. I know that a lot of Jewish students who I'm
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very close to, who are very very good friends of mine, they don't
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wear their mugg and David's out of their shirt, They don't wear their Star
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of Davids anymore, they don't openly identify because to them, you know,
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law school is hard enough as it is. When you step onto the campus
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now after October seventh, you can cut the tension with a knife, because
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the entire dynamic is now based on allies or enemies, who here is supportive
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of your right to exist, your right to engage in free, respectful discourse
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on campus, and who thinks you shouldn't even be allowed in the build based
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on how you identify who you are, who you align with. And I
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will absolutely lend validity to thatatement. That statement that Sydney made, it is
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one hundred percent true. And I've had We recently had an event on campus
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near the end where we had a survivor of the Nova massacre, shy Kline,
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who came to speak to us and share his experiences, and several students
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reached out to me saying, I want to be able to come, I
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want to be able to show my support. I do not feel safe being
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in an environment, being a specific location where people know Jewish students will be
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gathering. It's a stark reality that you're describing on the ground at the University
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of Windsor, and I'm sure one that makes many alumni, faculty, and
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current students question, you know, what actually is going on there. I
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appreciate you taking some time here to share it with us. We're going to
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take a quick break just and when we get back on the other side,
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I want to talk about the growing encampment movement movement that's spreading not only across
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the United States but also here in Canada. Now we know that just yesterday
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there was that injunction which was denied for McGill and two students who had asked
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for the encampments to be cleared in protests to stop. We'll dive into that
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and whether or not you think that those encampments might actually spread to the University
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of Windsor. Don't go anywhere, folks. John Lydkey here on AM eight
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hundred CKLW. We're back right after this, Hey, folks were back.
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John le Key here on AM eight hundred CKLW. We're talking about anti Semitism
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on Canadian campuses, what it's like to be a Jewish student at the University
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of Windsor. Joining me in studio is Justin Hebert, who is the University
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of Windsor Jewish Students Association President, and right now we're going to discuss the
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growing encampment protests that we're seeing, the anti Israel, pro Palestine encampments.
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Two sides to every story, depending on what lens you want to look through
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it. And we've seen across the United States these have spread to a large
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number, big police present response from both the East Coast to the West Coast
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and in between the United States. Here in Canada we have seen at the
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University of Toronto, at McGill, at Western and BC there's been this growing
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encampment movement and I wanted to know whether or not Justin thought there would be
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one coming to the University of Windsor. CTV Windsor put out a story pro
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Palestinian encampment protests. Is you Windsor ready. We reached out to the University
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of Windsor to have them on. We haven't gotten a confirmation yet. Unfortunately,
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hopefully we'll be able to. But Justin, when you see these encampments
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right now that are spreading across campuses, what's your first thought about the encampments
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themselves and what the messaging is and what's trying to be achieved. I mean,
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my first thought when I see these encampments is that this is clearly a
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movement that's reached a bit of a breaking point. I think the barrier to
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entry has been so low for all you really have to do is be relatively
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compassionate for the cause, and anyone can join, regardless of what the consequences
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are, regardless of the implications. And when you have something that is so
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attractive for so many young people who just want to put on the revolutionary caps,
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who just want to basically feel like they are part of a movement,
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that I do. I do believe for the most of them that they are
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in the impression that they're doing something good, that they're doing something that aligns
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with their values, despite not maybe knowing the full picture, not having all
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the information available, and almost like you know, a train wreck scenario.
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You have so much momentum, so much weight behind this movement, but now
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the actual tangible objectives are unachievable, and a lot of what they are requesting
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are non starters for a lot of these administrations. So when you see a
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train come to a solidn halt, all of a sudden, everything goes off
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the rails, and I think that's what we're seeing. We're kind of seeing
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this breaking point in a social movement where now you have a suspension of the
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rule of law. All of a sudden, rules in general no longer have
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the same meaning that they do. And I think most people are totally unequipped
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to deal with this. Most administrations are totally unequipped to deal with this.
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You know, police are unequipped to deal with this, because it's this really
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complicated balancing act between people's constitutional interests and people's privacy interests, property interests.
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There's all these things that are converging in this territory that I don't think we've
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ever anticipated, and I think when the Constitution was drafted in the eighties,
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I don't think they anticipated, you know, having to deal with the very
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real thresholds or limits of what freedom of expression or freedom of speech could actually
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look like. You know, I'm all for people protesting. I think protests
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that's great. One of the things that I started to think about, though,
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was the liability for these institutions because they have students who are under the
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age of eighteen on campus living there in dorms, and those are miners who
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have been placed in the care of the university, and that is a completely
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different dynamic. So I guess the question then, is Sins coming to Windsor.
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Do you think the university is going to have one of these encampments?
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The quad's big, you could put one right in the middle. I mean,
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I don't think it's necessarily logistics issue as much. I think it's just,
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you know, you look at places where these encampments are, Like I
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used to live in Montreal, you know, I used to go to McGill
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all the time. It's smack in the middle of a very densely populated,
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you know, metropolitan city center. Right. I think just that fact alone
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makes it a popular place to demonstrate or to build an encampment. And I
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think you see a lot of these and a lot of universities that are in
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densely populated urban city centers. I simply don't think that's going to be the
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case in Windsor. I think if it was, we probably would have started
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to see at least signs of it. I am one of the few,
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you know, amongst my law school cohort that actually stayed in Windsor, and
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I'm staying in Windsor for the summer, and I walk through the campus all
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the time. There's nobody there. It's a total ghost town. And I
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think, you know, as I'd mentioned, you know, in the past,
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I said, I don't think summer could have come soon enough for administration.
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I think this is also a big opportunity for the actual campus climate to
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just kind of cool down. A lot of people are graduating, new students
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come in, and I think the further we, you know, the further
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we stray from the actual events of October seven, and the more that,
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you know, international tensions hopefully come to some sort of resolution. I just
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don't think that the momentum that this movement has been getting on other campuses is
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necessarily the same as here on campus. That's not to say that there are
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not you know, you know, numerous advocates and a lot of students are
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would likely be in support of an encampment. I just logistically, I just
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don't see it happening. I guess it's gonna be a wait and see,
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just definitely a wait and see. Justin Hebert is the University of Windsor Jewish
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Students Association President. Thanks so much for coming to the studio and joining me
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today. That's my absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
16:33
Absolutely, we're gonna