Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Dark Deal Behind Rock ‘n’ Roll Fame [Episode 370]

Transcript

The Dark Deal Behind Rock ‘n’ Roll Fame [Episode 370] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What if Buddy Holly actually survived the plane crash.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: He's wearing this necklace that has us amulet on it,
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: which is what kept him alive. What if he was
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: just alive in the early seventies and it gives us interview.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: When you're writing these stories, who's wonder if you're stirring
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: up some energy.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I will vehemently say I don't believe it, but I
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: am always looking over my shoulder.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We're totally bumming rock and roll.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading Little Hands says
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: it's time to rock and roll roll.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: podcast for those about to read and rock. I'm Eric Sinach.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Great to have you with us. Before we get started
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and introduce the guest. If you want to support the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: podcast get episodes commercial free, sign up for the backstage
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Pass from Patreon for just five dollars a month. The
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: link is in the show notes, or you can go
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to Booked on Rock dot com. You'll find it there
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: as well. Now on to our guest, Mark Slave really
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a friend of the show. He's been a huge supporter
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: of the show. He's been on in the past. Now
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: he's got a brand new book out called Rock and
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Roll Ghosts. Mark. It is good to see you again.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: How you doing, Man, Hey, how you doing? Eric? Thank you? Wow,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: that was smooth. I had no idea how you did
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: those intros. I thought you did them afterwards.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: No, actually I just started to do it, just started
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: inserting them into the beginning and just do it while
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: when recording. But you're onto something there. I used to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: do them at the end.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: He And there's no wrong way to do.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: You know. We're pros here.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: So you were now you're a pro.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: You were on god was it two three years ago?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Three years ago? We were talking about the magazine, but
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: then we geared into occult. Hey, that's crazy because this
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: is about cult stuff. So you kind of had an
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: influence on this.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Twisted pulp magazine.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we want you back. Yeah, whenever I came.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was able to contribute few articles, and I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: know I think I did the Van Helen one in
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: the morning.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, And I remember I was doing my book
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: review on the Van Halen book and I needed you
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: to check fact check it, make sure my facts were right.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So yeah, now you have this
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: book Rock and Roll Ghost. So it's described as a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: collection of interconnected horror stories that explore the dark, occult
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: mythology behind the birth of American music. Was there a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: particular story or legend, maybe something about like the Blues
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Crossroads myth or haunted recording that first pulled you into
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: this world?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Not exactly. I think I've had the idea almost since
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I was a kid in a way, because I used
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to look at I don't know if you used to
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: get these, like Rolling Stone magazine had their own shoot
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: what is it? It's like the profile of every rock
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: and roll act that there ever was, go by the alphabet,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: you know. They might start with, well, I'm just throwing
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: a name out there, like Abba, and then go into
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: others Tom Petty.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: But I noticed that the Billboard Rocks Movers and Shakers book.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know it was stuff like that. Yeah,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I got it right here, The Rolling Stone Illustrated History
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: of Rock and Roll. That was the first one I
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: ever looked at, and it was first published in nineteen
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: seventy six, but I probably looked at the nineteen eighty
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: eighty two to one. What struck me about it was
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: kind of strange, was they only had paragraphs for certain acts,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: but they the bigger ones, like the Beatles, which makes sense,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: would have like four or five pages. But then like
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: somebody like Tom Petty would have like a paragraph, and
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, you could write a little more
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: about him. But I always had the idea I wanted
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: to do my own, which kind of be a fake
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: one where it would be different acts I would create
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: alongside real acts. But then during the pandemic, I remembered
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that and I started work on it again and kind
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: of thinking about Memphis and New Orleans, especially with Fats Domino.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: The voodoo thing kind of coming in, remembering the movie
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Angel Heart kind of seeped into that story, kind of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: thinking about how all my life I kind of hurt. Well,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: younger life, I'd heard how evil rock and roll was,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and you know, you see those preachers on TV. You
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: know they're tall my stairway to heave it, and so,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I just kind of thought about that the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: occult and I was like, well, what if those stories
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: were true? What if all that they were saying, What
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: if rock and roll really was evil? And that's that's
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: where it kind of began. And then another thing that
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: kind of influenced was excluding your podcast, but suppose the
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: educational podcasts where people just start them up, but they
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do any research, so they were just making up things,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: making up facts. And that was during most of the pandemic.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And I go, you know, if they can lie, I
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: can lie too. Why not? Why not? I'd make a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: whole book about this, which the original, the original idea
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: was was a podcast. And then I turn it kind
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: of in.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I gotcha. Yeah yeah, so let's have some fun
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: with them. Let's get creative and take these real people
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and turn them into these these stories like you described
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: as short, fast paced tales that feel like campfire confessions.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: That storytelling style. What inspired you to approach it that way?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: The Twilight Zone Okay, most definitely, most definitely, uh, Twilight
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Zone and that whole period of science fiction, fantasy and
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: horror with the writers like Richard Matheson, Charles Beaumont, people
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: like that, and Ray Bradberry, and they always wrote swift,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: concise stories that you could sit on a bus, a train,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and a doctor's office while you're waiting and read the
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: entire story. That's what I always had it in my
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: mind to do. All my short stories like if I
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: can now, some like the Fasts Domino one kept on
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: going and I had no idea how to end it.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I mean it took me. I mean we're talking every
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: day for two months. I was writing that story and
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: something kept popping up that I wanted in it.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: It was so crazy, that particular one.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was like, I got to end this.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It can't go on. And so I looked at the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: word count and I was like, oh man, is that
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: almost six thousand words? Oh no way, no way. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: got to find another way to end it.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: The early days of rock and roll? You asked this
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in the book, do you know the real stories about
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the early days of rock and roll? What made that
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: particular era era such fertile ground for the mythology that
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you explore rock and roll ghosts?
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Probably because there's so many different rumors about it, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: only until people started doing a lot of books about it,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and even a lot of those books weren't exactly true.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: But documentaries that have come out about these performers. You
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: always heard rumors and things that didn't quite sit right.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You go, you know, did Chuck Berry really, you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: take that song from somebody did he really hear this
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: certain song that was a Slavic song or I'd heard
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that rumor. And I think a lot of that came
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: from like people who are much older than us, probably
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: sitting around smoking some weed and you know, listening to
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: the records and you know, they just start talking and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, just like the thing about
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Paul as dead, it just goes around and becomes fact.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: How much of it, too, is this is long before
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the Internet era, so there's less there, which makes it
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: more intriguing. It's like the Buddy Holly plane crash was
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: like a yes, photos, I mean, that's it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Which is interesting about that you brought that up for
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: that Buddy Holly story that I did. I was watching
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: that documentary about three or four years ago that the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: British put out, I want to say it was the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: late nineties, maybe two thousands, and they they they actually
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: went in and they explored the grounds, but they talked
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to people who worked with that pilot and turned out
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the pilot was not feeling well himself and he was
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: actually going blind.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's nuts. I'll send you the link to it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I think it's still on YouTube.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I've seen videos of the actual location the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: last gig that Buddy Holly and the Crickets played, and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that's pretty pretty eerie. I mean, they've preserved that very well.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, And the fact that country star Whalon Jennings was
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: his bass player to time, and he flipped the coin
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I think with Big Bopper, see Whalen Jennings was he
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: had bronchitis or something. He was very sick. And of course,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: you know, the plane had a little bit of a heater,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: but the bus didn't have any heat. So whoever lost
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: that coin toss had to ride the bus. And that's
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: when Whalen lost the coin toss. Big Bopper got to
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: go on the plane and him and Buddy Holly were bantering.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: They always bantered. They were like brothers. And Whalen I
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: don't know how old he was. I can't remember. I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: want to say it was like sixteen or seventy a kid, yeah,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: And I think Buddy Holly was what twenty four twenty
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: five maybe, And and so Buddy Holly says, why hoop
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: your bus crashes? He says, why hoop your plane crashes?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: And Whalen said in that documentary said the boy it
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: bothered me almost my entire life that I said that
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to one of my best friends.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: He's been the greatest source of of information for that story. Yes,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but if you think if that happens today, Man, no
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: stone is unturned, you know, but there's still there's still
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: things you wonder about it. Like I said, you get
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: these few photos of the crash and things like that.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Calvin Swelle tell us about him before before we get
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: into these stories. You introduce readers to Calvin Swell his
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: book The True History of Rock and Roll. Can you
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: share that story and why it was important to include
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: in the book.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: It was important because he somehow had inside source to
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: these stories, and his source was. Sorry, I'm blanking on
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the character's name, but this character, he's he's involved in
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: some really shady occult stuff. He's kind of the underling
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: to the main bad guy in the story. And what
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: he does is that he creates chaos wherever he goes,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: telling the little FIBs and stuff, and so things caught
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: up to him. He's more human than anything, whether a
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: demon or not. But in his later days, I was
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: just thinking that he was this guy who used to
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: be a journalist and Calvin Swale's a journalist who couldn't
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: really make it, so he doesn't interview Calvin Swale, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: he tells him all these stories. But it gets Calvin
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Swale into some really terrible occult stuff and he disappears.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Some people think that he jumped off a bridge in Detroit.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Others claim they keep seeing him he's still alive walking
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: around today.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: That sets the tone for the book.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it makes you think, well, are these lies?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Are these true stories?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Well, the way it's written, if you're really not familiar
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: with these characters, of these people, these musicians, these stories,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you might think is this true?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, that's why I was going to ask you.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Do you think that younger audiences, if they picked us up,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: would they even know who these people are? They without googling.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: The ones like Elvis. Yeah, but there's certain ones that
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: they won't and they might wonder if it's true or Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which in some regard I have to say, I
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Like that you take that as a compliment seriously it
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: was written, Yeah. Yeah. One of the stories, or one
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of the chapters tells the story of Elvis encountering what
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you describe as a demon dog from hell.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I took it from where I remember seeing many
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: many documentaries. I didn't read any books about him recently.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I know I've read a few, but it was so
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: long ago. But also hearing the stories when he was
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: a truck.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Drive, right, this is that's what's cool about it's pre
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: famous Elvis.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was trying to do that, and I wanted
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to do a little bit of what if his what
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: if his twin brother also was a lie. That's where
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to go. But I wanted to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: have a David Lynch twist in it, where you know,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: where where you're like, no, why did he just pop
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: up in here? That kind of thing. But you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the demon Dog thing, I'm trying to remember it was.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It was something that they hired Elvis and his friend
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: was hired, and of course his friend was always getting
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: him into trouble. That was one of the main stories
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: plots in it. And of course that's they were supposed
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to pick something up for the main bad guy and
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: they didn't exactly get to do it perfectly, and that's
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: what set off the demon Dog to hunt hunt Elvis
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: down and you know, basically kind of ruin his Uh.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I want to say it would ruin his uh present
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: life after he became famous. That's that's the way I
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: looked at it. Everybody else might get to have another
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: take on it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I thought was an omen.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that that's a good point. A black dog.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: That's definitely an open you know, it ruined your life,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: may make all kinds of terrible Have you make terrible decisions?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: You're always looking over your shoulder. Is somebody gonna finally
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: come across? And Uh, that's the end of my life?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And where's my soul gonna go?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Little Richard's in the book. One of the chapter imagines
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Little Richard finding himself in a church filled with ghosts.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: His life had deep connection to religion, especially gospel music.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: So how did that spiritual background influence this story?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: The documentary was an early eighties documentary.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Again, the British sure to make great documentaries about our culture.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I wish we did. Uh. But he was talking about
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: a timinous life where he thought he was doing evil
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and he needed that spiritual guidance and that's when he
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: quit singing and he turned to the church and became
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: an ordained preacher. So I was trying to think, well,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: what if there was an incident that calls this, you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: what if what if he actually had these powers kind
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: of like you know, and Stephen King had had a
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: few of his characters where they could they could sense ghosts,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: but they felt sick all the time whenever they did.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And that's that's what led to you know, like he
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: thought he had a head cold or it was allergies.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And he gets off the bus and he's he's so
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: mad at his at his uh, at his band members,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend, and he just needs to walk it off,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and that's where he ends up. He ends up in
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the church and of course being getting sicker and sicker
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: as he goes into the church. Right.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just reflects the tension between his religious roots
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and his rock and roll persona.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Which Mary Lee Lewis also had the same thing going on.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if you ever heard this. It
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: was on YouTube where him and Sam Phillips Sun Records.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: He they had this awful argument him and Jerry Lee
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: lewis Is. It's on YouTube, you can listen to it,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and it's I think it might have been the Million
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Dollar Club, you know, where they had Johnny Cash and
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Elvis and Carl Perkins were all there and they were
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: singing and you know, having a good time. And then
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: for some reason, Sam Phillips just I think he made
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a comment about God, and all of a sudden, Jerry
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Lee Lewis just goes goes berserk. That kind of influenced
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: a couple things in the book that the religious tension
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: is is a part of this book.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I was also going to say, what's interesting is
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the dangerous power of the beat in rock and roll.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Reverend Snow in that story talks about the dangers of
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: that and how it can trap someone in a certain state.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And there's another story titled let Us Pray, same theme
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: where the main character, Billy, can't get this beat out
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: of his head. So were you drawing on the real
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: historical fear that the rhythm of rock music awakened something
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: rebellious or even primal in people, because that's what preachers
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: were talking about.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: And they were saying it was causing all kinds of
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: crime and rapes and murders, and I mean they were
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: just going at it with this strange new music that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they didn't understand.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: What's that famous clip? Was it a preacher? He's like,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: it's in the beat. It's in the beat.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: It's in the beat, that's him. That's where I got
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: that character from. And some of his dialogue is in
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: that story with the Little Richard where he's preaching about
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: all kinds of terrible things that would happen to people
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: if they listen to this, and you've got to believe
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: in the Almighty God or you know, have your soul
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: saved and you'll be white clean of all this terrible music,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: this jungle music. And I mean, he was just going off.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, I didn't use the real guy's
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: name because he's still alive.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: He's still alive. Oh my god, I'm.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Still still preaching. He's like in his nineties and he's
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: still preaching. I looked him up and he's got a
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: website and he used to record albums as well. That's
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: that's where I got that from.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know that Elvis was like considered the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: devil by parents.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Which is crazy because he was deeply religious.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: It's just fascinating too though. It's the it's that tension
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that back and forth between religion, God and rock and roll.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know they would make up their own
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: stories for their followers, so that they would they would
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: make sure their kids did not go to any of
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: the shows. And you know, granted, there's always dangerous when
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you when you or your kids go to any of
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: these shows, you could end up in that nineteen was
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: it nineteen seventy nine, nineteen seventy eight Stampede one to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: who took the stage in Ohio? Was it Cincinnatis?
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: And I think my favorite show is wk Ripe in Cincinnati.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: They whip together an episode within weeks after and if not.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Days, one of the best TV shows ever.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Slay the author of the new book Rock and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Roll Ghosts all Right, chapter on Alan Freed, legendary DJ
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: whose career was destroyed by the early sixties Paola scandal,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: where he was found to have accepted money from record
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: companies to play specific records, which he was like one
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: of thousands, you know, if not hundreds of but he
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: was the guy. He was, he was the one at
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the top, so you gotta take him down. The story
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: is titled Moondog's One hell of a Deal, and it
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: references the nickname that Freed used on the air, Moondog.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So what inspired that title and the idea behind the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: story tell us about this.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I was listening to a podcast. This was a really
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: good podcast. I just can't remember the name of it,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: but it was taught myt Scandals. I think it's called
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: American Scandals, and that was one of them. But the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: thing is what he was pointing out is yes he
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: was guilty, but there was so many others. And the
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: other popular one who should have been brought down with
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: him was Dick Clark, because Dick Clark was doing the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: very same thing. He was buying these songs from people,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: He's putting his name on it along with them, taking
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: about sixty percent of their royalties, and it was just
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: so devious and the singers that like these guys, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Alan Freed is guilty of this. I think he had
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a handful of the of a couple of the late
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: fifties acts in his pocket where he was supposed to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: be their manager and he was getting one hundred percent
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of their money and then it's given them like I
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: don't know, maybe thirty forty dollars to live off of
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and they'd have to split it between each other. So
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: but taking all that in with Alan Freed if a
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: lot of it, if it wasn't for him promote that,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think it would have caught on. I don't
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: think rock and roll would have caught on at all,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you know it, which is one of the reasons why
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is held there, right,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: isn't it held in Ohio Cleveland, which is where he
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: began he began this show. So but the actual structure
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: of that story, again comes from writers like Richard Matheson.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So in everyday life, say, for instance, you you're you're doing
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: your podcast, and you know, you're interviewing somebody, and just
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, somebody from behind appears and they
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: start talking to you, and you turn around and you're
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: you know, you go through all this with them. You
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: may even leave the house, go out in the street,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and you come back, and then I could if you're
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: interviewing me, I could still be sitting there and I go,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: where'd you go? You just like disappeared. So those were
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: kind of, again some of the Twilight Zone qualities, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: especially from those writers like Ray Bradberry, Richard Matheson, Charles Beaumont.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: You know that, glad you brought up those names. Because
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Rod Serlin gets all of the credit, which of course
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I mean he created the show, yes, I mean, but
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: he didn't write all the episodes. He wrote a lot
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of them, and I think the first few seasons, but
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: then he brought in these outside writers who are amazing.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Almost immediately he brought those guys in. He knew that
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: he couldn't handle all the writing by himself, and he
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: didn't want cps to appoint writers, which is what happens
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: on a lot of shows. His staff would be loose. Staff,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: mostly would be him and his producer Buck Houghton, and
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: they would they would have the meetings with the writers.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: They might even do I think they even had a
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: table with a bunch of the writers. They would bring
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: them in and but most of the time those writers
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: like Richard Matheson, Charles Beaumont, they would come in and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: they'd pitch face to face to Buck Outon. Buck would
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: say yes. He'd send a synopsis to to Rod Rod.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Of course, anything that Matheson and Beaumont did, he would
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: say yes. Because they were suggested to him by Ray Bradberry,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: and for a short time, Surling and Bradberry were very
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: good friends. But I think Ego's gotten a way of that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And then you know, of course, Brad Barry and some
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: of his friends always would say, well, I think Rod
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: took a little bit of my story for his script.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, there's so many stories out there,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: so many like minded people. There's no way he could
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: have ripped them off, not every one of them.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And he died. He was only like, did he make.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Fifty four or fifty three? He was he was cutting
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the grass and he killed over. I read his daughter's
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: book and surling, and it was pretty hard breaking he
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: he had. I think Night Gallery had just been canceled,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: maybe a couple of years before. He may have been
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: writing some TV movies, but I mean, he hadn't been
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: doing a whole lot of work after. Oh, I think
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: he was narrating a radio show, believe or not.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, the fictitional rock and roll concert that some radio
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: station put on, like a buffalo or something.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Really see story. No, I was thinking of the One
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: zero Hour that he was narrating. But he did a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: lot of those. Oh, oh man, what is the in
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: search of? Before Leonard Nimoy came on, he did the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: movies like Chariots, like the spacemen coming from outer space
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and they populate the Earth, you know, it's it's just
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: some crazy stuff.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Here's Fantasy Park, a forty eight hour fictional radio rock
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: concert broadcast over labor dy Week in nineteen seventy five.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Hosted by Rod Sterling. Produced by k n US in Dallas.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: The Concert of the Mind featured simulated live performances from
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: top acts like The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and The Who.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: It was one of Sterling's final projects. Featured his voice
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: in promos and hourly updates.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm looking that up.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: And there's a great podcast, the Twilight Zone podcast.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's how I found you.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: You left the voicemail I did, and I love that
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: show and I asked, I asked the host and said,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: what do you know about this? And he was just like,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything beyond what everybody else knows. So
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a project, there's a book. If you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: could find out more on that, man, that'd be fascinating,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: because it's it's really all we know is just kind
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of the basics of it. I think there's clips of
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: it on YouTube.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, I'm definitely looking that up. I bet internet
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: archive might have it all.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: That's how you discovered me?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man, yeah. I mean, look, look, here's the
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: thing about all that. I was working overnights, I was
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: doing produce overnights, and I needed something to listen to.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And like I told you, I'd been going through all
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: these podcasts. Nothing against anybody, understand how it is that
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: you can't have all the stuff in your head and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: you can't always google. But sometimes more than more than
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes they just they just make up stuff. And then
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: it became a such a chore to listen through that stuff.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And they would they would say the most outrageous stuff
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and then try to make it true.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You have to be real careful.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and they want to make it their own
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: political statement and all this mess. And finally I was
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: listening to that Toilett Zone podcast and I'd had some
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: contact with that dude too, very nice from Liverpool. Yeah,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: and I heard you, and I go, oh, I got
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: to listen to this. And then when I listened to
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: it and you had another show before Discovery. Yeah that's that.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was cool. In one of the episodes I
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: did were songs that were inspired or included Twilight Zone
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: in the in the title and stuff. I was just
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: having fun with it, really was. That was good because
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I just left radio and I'm like, I really want
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to have fun and just do a podcast. I always,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you know, wanted to do one. As soon as I
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: started listening to him, I'm like, damn, this is great.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah Tom Elliott and he he has that great delivery,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the op TJ delivery.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And never make the mistake that that. Oh I did
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: this with the old lady I used to work with.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, it sounds like you might be Irish.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I am from Liverpool. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh, I.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Wanted to ask you now, did I hear this right
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: on one of your podcasts that somebody had texted you
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: that their son was working for Keith Richards and Keith
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Richards bade him a sandwich, it gave him a beer.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: My sister, so my dad remarried and had a daughter,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Mary Ellen, and so her boyfriend installs pools here in Connecticut. Oh,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: so she texted me and she says, hey, Eric Cody
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is working on Keith Richards pool. You know, I was like,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: get out of here, man, I said, what's he like?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I always hear he's cool with the nicest guy, you know. Yeah,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: you know, sandwiches can I get you anything. Yeah. Yeah,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: he lives in Wilton, Connecticut, I think, or something like that. Yeah,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the man.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Keith, Yeah yeah, yeah, just a normal guy he is.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's go back to the Buddy Holly story. This
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: may be the most fascinating one in the book. This
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: is cool. What if Buddy Holly actually survived the plane
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: crash and it gave this interview and it opens as
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: a fictional magazine interview from nineteen seventy four. What inspired
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you to present the story in that format.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: I couldn't think of any other way to do it.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I could have went ahead and wrote about him where
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: he was living incognito on a farm not far from
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the crash site. And this family brings him in and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I think it was a father and a daughter if
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I remember correctly, And of course he falls in love
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: with the daughter and he just lives there and no
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: one knows that he is still alive until what was
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: in the mid sixties I think or early sixties when
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: he come out and I having, you know, he finally
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: decided he got the muse and he wanted to perform again.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Gets all these different types of managers and things like it,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: and some sort of shady stuff happened, some good things happen.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: But he's wearing this necklace that has this amulet on it,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: which is what kept him alive. And I could have
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: presented that as just the story, but I decided, well,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: you know, what if what if he was just alive
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: in the early seventies and he gives us interview and
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: all the other stuff that he had that had happened
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: to him. He didn't talk much about it. He just
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: wanted to do the records and that was it. And
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: uh again, uh the character that I had, the shadowy
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: character that who had dealings with Freed, and just about
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: every character in this book. Uh he he conjoles Buddy
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Holly into giving an interview, and uh.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I love that story. Thank you, thank you story.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I mean imagine that that would be. That's like, you know,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: people say, I saw Elvis, he's in he's in the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: home alone, he's standing in line at the airport.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: You know exactly exactly that. That also probably had a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: little bit of effect on me. Remember all those stories
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: and remember oh yeah, which we find out it was
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: ray Man's Eric was spreading that story. Yeah, because John
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Densmore said that he said Oh, that was Ray doing that.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: We didn't have anything to do with that stuff, but
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: it kept our records a lot, she did.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, sure it did. Fat's Domino gambling
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: his soul in order to remove a curse from a friend. Right, Okay,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: This is because one of the most famous legends and
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: blues history is Robert Johnson supposedly selling his soul at
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the Crossroads for musical talent. In your story, Fats Domino
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: risks his soul to remove a curse from a friend,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: reintentionally reimagining that classic myth.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure I didn't use that. It's
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: been overused and it's been used really well, and there's
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: no way I could ever do that without people calling
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: me out and saying, oh, you're just regurgitating older material
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: from other people. So again, I was just thinking of
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Fats Domino, what was his life? And I've read this book.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It was a book called Blue Monday, and I can't
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: remember the guys, oh Rick Coleman, Rick Coleman. I was
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: thinking of his life because he described how he worked
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: at these factories. I think it was a bread factory
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: before he and he was doing the music on the side.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: On the weekends, and he was already married. I think
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: he already had four kids, and it was barely making it.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But I was thinking he had this friend that he
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: always hung around, and you know, just like with el
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: of us, you always have this one friend you shouldn't
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: hang around. And this friend used to be a ladies man.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And that's what Fats thinks is how he got the
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: curse on him. But see, this is where Fats gives
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: a homecoming concert in New Orleans. He'd already been away
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and done, like I think I had it where he
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: did thirty five dates all over the West coast and
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: then a little bit in the South, and then his
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: last concert was homecoming and they had a riot and
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: he barely got away without being arrested. I think some
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: of his band members may have been arrested, or they
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: talked their way out of it. I know a manager
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: paid some fines, you know, and paid off for the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: auditorium being messed up. So what I had was the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: aftermath of at He's sitting there and he's playing, he's
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: just messing around on the piano, not really playing anything,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: not really writing any songs, and somebody comes up and
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: it's one of his best and oldest friends, and I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: had this idea that, well, what if one of the
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: things he used to do when he's younger is that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: he was an occult detective, that he was a fixer
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: in the occult and he had all this knowledge of
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: how to get rid of curses and he dealt with
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: demons and devils and all that, And that was kind
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: of the sketch that I had in my head of
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: how the story would go.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: The Book Down Rock podcast is part of the Bonus
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: podcasting Network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot lovable
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: dot app to find over twenty great shows there that's
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Boneless dot lovable dot app, or just go to book
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: down Rock dot com the Boneless podcasting network.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: It is what you want it to be.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Listen with confidence. You also have these hidden tracks throughout
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the book. Yeah right, this is cool, much like a
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: hidden song that used to appear on CDs. One of
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: them opens with rockabilly pioneer Janis Martin encountering a mysterious
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: man guarding a strange black box in a drugstore cafeteria.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: The opening is vivid and it's creepy, and it introduces
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Janis Martin in a way that immediately builds tension. I'm
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: curious as to what inspired you to structure parts of
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the book that way.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: To do it that way is exactly what you're saying.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: The hidden tracks, Uh, man like Cracker. You remember the
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: band Cracker? Uh? How many tracks do they have on
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: that one album that they had that had the really
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: big hit song that they had, Yeah, Cracker, I want
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: to say low was the hit, and then they had
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: some uh because I think they were building the album
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah carosing what thank you for looking at up because
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: that is such a great album. And then towards the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: end it's I think, what is it like seventy tracks?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Which is crazy that in nineteen ninety three or four
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: or five you could do something like that that sounds
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: like more modern. But I got that idea, what if
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: what if I didn't list these on the table contents.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, when loth are you know, my
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: cohort him and Chauncey and my cohorts for stuff like this,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Lothart did a great at it, but he went ahead
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and put that on the table contents. But I didn't
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: want to correct him on it because I said, Nah,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: that's that's a pretty good idea too. To listen them,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: it's fine.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're from Twisted Pulp.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been working with them for like what Well.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Loth Are I've known for almost eight years. We used
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: to do audios together. It was one of the actors
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I used to always get and and Chauncey I met
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: on his show. He interviewed me for a book and
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I was telling him some of the stuff I was doing,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: like some of the audio dramas I was doing, and
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: he said he was always wanted to do that. And
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: then we got to talk and he wanted to do
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a magazine and we just jumped in.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Very talented guys, the three man the guys what you
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: A lot more talented than I am. I'll tell you.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, they make me look good.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: You've got skills as well. But yeah, loth Are, I've
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: heard the stuff that he's done. The voice over acting,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I guess you would call it for your stories. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Chauncey's got a radio voice.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, I got the smooth, isn't it. Both those guys
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: have such great voices. And and if if Loath are
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: wanted to he was scared to be Jesus at him
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: with it. But Chauncey is got this really calming voice,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, and very informal, informational voice, and I loved
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: his show as well. He was just really good at it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, Lothar was really into the cult
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: music and the occult, right, yeah, you mentioned that appear
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: our interview.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: He helped me a whole lot with this book. When
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you're writing something like this and you're focusing on like
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: twenty different projects, we always have a bunch of stuff going.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: He always would bring me back to, hey, you kind
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: of left off here, but what if it went this direction?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: And that that that's a sign of a really good editor,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and not just fixing your spelling and grammar, which I need,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: but you know, just just saying, what if what if
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: we pulled this Fats Domino story slightly in this direction
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: because of the voodoo and you know, all this other
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: stuff and calling the main lady in Dicky Low, what
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: if she was the scarlet woman that Alistair Crawley was
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: always talking about creating this Antichrist, And I said, well, yeah,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: might as well go for that too. So he had
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of good ideas.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Hey, when you this is I have to ask, is
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: when you're writing these stories, be it for this book
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: or just in general, for Twisted Pulp magazine and things
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: like that, do you ever who's wondering if you if
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: you're stirring up some energy, you know, and do you
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: ever have like you hear something strange like some from knocking,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: or well, how was that? Or feel a cold breeze
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: go through you?
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Well, personally, not exactly.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: You believe in that stuff?
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't. But look, I'm human. I am
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: as super institious as the next person, and I will
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: vehemently say I don't believe it, but I am always
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: looking over my shoulder and my wife always calls me
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: out on it because but I can't help it. You know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: it's it's I'm human. Especially when I used to work nights,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I always heard and saw stuff because I was tired,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: or it could be many factors, but yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Because well, because I'm so fascinated with the dark, the
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: darker side of of music, all these mysteries, and sometimes
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I'll get so deep into that rabbit hole I get
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: a little I kind of creep myself, like, well, you know,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to start stirring up some dark spirits in
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the room here. I better.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, most definitely, especially when you're doing research
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: and reading uh well, one of the one of the
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: books that helped the idea.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Of this, because it's just yeah, I think about that
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: a lot, like because I wanted to do a podcast.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I think at one point I was thinking about, let
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: me do some of the just like this, like get
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: into some of the eerie stories in rock history music history,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and boy, I don't know if I could really because
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: to do it, I want fully invest myself one hundred
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: percent and that might pull me down to do it.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Well, you also have to really love the music, and
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you and you and you have to take everything with
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: a grain of salt. But us, you know, we're just
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: practically the same age. We grew up in that time
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: period where Satan worship was supposedly true, right, and in
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the eighties you always saw for was it called First
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Edition or whatever that whatever the crappy supposed news show
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: was And now now it's nothing but the networks they're
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: all that. But they always said things that are so
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: outrageous and you know, interview go to Omaha and interview
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: this poor farmer who saw.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: He saw Jesus in a window, right, it was like
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the stain on.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Something like that. Jesus or or aliens come up and
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: they kidnapped him and his wife and you know, made
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: them eat some sort of grain.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: And of course, of course is the band that stands
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: for knights and Satan service, of course, you know.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: And of course again it goes back to because of
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: led Zeppelin and Peter Grant's great idea that don't let
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the boys be interviewed, no television exposure. Whatever people say
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: about you, so what, it only makes you more popular.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: And if they think Stairway to Heaven has backward messaging, heck.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, never get in a way of a good story
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: because it's gonna. There's no such thing as bad publicity.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: It's it's gonna yeah, And it worked.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: And some of these stories are kind of in this
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: book called Season of the Witch, How the Occult Saved
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Rock and Roll, and it's by Peter Beber Gaw, I'm
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: probably messing up your name, Peter, I'm sorry. I had
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: one Facebook message in exchange with him and I told
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: him about that. I told him my project and he said,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: good luck. He said, but it's a great idea. I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: wish I'd have thought of it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I was hoping that getting to possibly, you know, give
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: me a quote or something. But no interaction whatsoever. And
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: it's not him. He just he probably doesn't get on it,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned aliens. Jerry Lee Lewis in the book
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Falls in Love with an Alien. The story is titled
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: The Alien War Blue Genes. So his personal life was
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: almost as notorious as his music, especially the controversies running
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: his relationships. Did that larger than life and sometimes scandalous
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: reputation influence how you approach his character in.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: This absolutely, And I've watched I don't know if you've
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: seen this yet, but you should look it up. It's
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: called Trouble in Mind and it's a documentary directed by
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Ethan Cohen, one of Cohen brothers put it together. It's
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: all archival footage, it's no headshots. It's nobody saying, oh,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: he was an influence on me, and you know, his
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: music is great, And then it cut to somebody saying,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: but he was an awful person. Said none of that.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: It's just him and one of his ex wives, maybe
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: some of the band members talking about him and him
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: talking about the stories. And again it was the religious
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: thing that got me on this because I remember that
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: he I think he went to school. He was going
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to be a preacher. I don't think he ever became ordained,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: but he was. He was going to school. But the
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: thing is when he was in school, he was again
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: a ladies man, and I think he met an older lady.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I want to say he either lived with her or
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: he married her for a short time, but even that
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: was so short because he found another girl who was
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: going to school there. So I kind of used that.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: You know, he's it's supposed to be the aftermath of
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: all the chaos that sort of ruined his career, his momentum.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I should say something, Well, yeah, it kind of you know,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: it represents maybe a guy would hope that it was
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a gorgeous woman it comes to visit you and not
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: those scary gray aliens who always sticking their fingers in
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: your bar. Yes, you know, things like that. But it
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: was mostly that documentary and how he was talking about
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: He wasn't apologizing because he was just saying, hey, you know,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I did some bad stuff and it just happened in
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: his life. But also I know I'm going to be
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: judged when I see God, So I'm all right with
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: that too. Yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but it was kind of
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: a quote that he said, and yeah, I at it
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: where he was. Now. Granted, I don't think Jerry Lee
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Lewis would ever ever go into a cafe and drink coffee.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: You know. Would he read a book, probably, but it
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be Harlan Ellison's book on rockabilly, you know, which
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't say it was Harlan Ellison's book, but I
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: kind of described it and I had him laughing about
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: it because jer Lee Lewis was the reason that Harlan
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Ellison wrote that book about him, about that character and
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: you know, the chaotic thing that was going on and
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: him marrying his cousin and you know, basically calls it again.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: He was one of those performance just like that's you know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: if that's Domino and Chuck Berry, you know, callsing riots
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: because people get so excited they couldn't help themselves to
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: hear this music. You know.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Sure, Thanks so much for checking out the book, Down
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Rock Podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: share on social media and let people know about Booked
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: listen to the book done Rock podcast, run Amazon, Apple, Ihearts, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: to the show. Chuck Berry. He's in the book too.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: He plays a mysterious chord that leads to dire consequences.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: In one scene, you describe feedback distortion and strange harmonics
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: building into something almost uncontrollable. A dark shape emerges. Early
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: rock musicians were often criticized for those sounds, those very
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: sounds people thought they were chaotic or even dangerous. So
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: we're intentionally tapping in to that historical fear of rock
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: sonic power, much like the beat.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Most definitely, and it was Black Sabbath. The story of
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: how they supposedly got that name was it Geezer Butler
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: who said he saw this shape rise against at the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: end of his bid. So I got that from that.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Also got it from a Roberty Howard story, and there's
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: it's a story about a mysterious record. Now Roberty Howard days,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: you know, he died I think in nineteen I think
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: he killed himself in nineteen thirty five, maybe nineteen thirty three.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I'm probably wrong with my dates. You know, he's the
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: creator of Conan, but he wrote horror stories as well,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: and he wrote this story about I think the character's
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: named Stephen Cortigan. Again, I'm probably wrong, it's been so
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: long since I read that story. But again, it's a friend.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: He goes and visits this friend, and this friend is
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: mesmerized by this record and I think what back then,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: records were seventy eight's. So he had it playing continuously,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: this character and he would listen to it, and it
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: sounded like somebody was speaking in slow motion and chanting
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: and all this weird stuff, and then this shape was
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: rising up, and so the friend. I know, it's probably
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: a kind of a silly ending to people modern, but
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty brilliant. He just reaches over,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: grabs the record and breaks it. That breaks the spell. Now,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I know that's a curt ending, but again, I just
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: thought it was brilliant. You know, how else could you
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: end it. You would have to keep the story going
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: that he has to fight the demon that rises up
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: or whatever that evil was, or the evil eats them
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: or whatever. You know, you would have to keep the
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: story going. But the way he just ended it, you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: it's perfect. So I got that from where Chuck Berry.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: You know, he's walking the streets. He's kind of having
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a songwriter's block. Maybe maybe not,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't remember what I had in
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: that particular story. But he's going down the street and
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: he sees a record shop that you'd never seen before,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: and it's owned by this slavic guy, this older maybe
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: it was Polish, I can't remember. And you know, he
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: goes in the shop and he sees this one particular
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: record and he gets fascinated with it, and he doesn't
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: know why he's fascinated, but he picks it up and
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: he asked the old man how much, and the old
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: man says, nah, I just give it to you. You know,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: which is sets off a red flag. You never accept
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: something for somebody if they're in the business of selling things.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: And so he tells him, Now, I pay my way,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: old man, I always pay my way. And I kind
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: of got that from when people used to talk about
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Chuck Barry how he always made sure because he'd been
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: ripped off so many times from promoters, that he gets
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: the cash up front and he doesn't accept gifts.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, he demanded that money up from because
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: he got ripped off so many times.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, So yeah, that's that's kind of how I took
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: that story. And then of course he you know, there's
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: no cheat sheet, there's no way for him to learn
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: it except like a lot of musicians learn it from
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: the record. You learn all your all your repertoire from
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: a record, and he was learning it and and that's
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: and he noticed that, you know, the fingerings and everything
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: like that, the the notes, it was all just similar notes.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: It was what what I think I had it in
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: several d F d F I don't know, I can't remember,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: but it was a lot of D and what I
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: was thinking, just just so you and you would get this,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: and a lot of younger viewers might not. The drop
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: D which was Black Sabbath and Metal, and then it
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: was carried over into grunge, and yeah, that I was
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: thinking that he kind of discovered that that the d tuning.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really I don't know if.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Anybody else got that from it. They may not.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't pick up on that, but that's fascinating. Yeah,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and these are just I think we picked maybe a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: handful of stories. I mean, there's a right, right, there's
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: a bunch of them in here.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: It might be about sixteen stories.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I think there's about that. What I'm trying to say is, folks,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: you got to get this book because there's a lot
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: more than what we talked about.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't believe I was almost at the end
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: of the book, and I can't believe I almost forgot
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: about Bill Hayley. How could I forget about including him?
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Because he and the other thing about this book. I
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: was getting ready. I was getting ready to take it
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: into different decades, which I was going to end it
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: in the late eighties, which would have been too massive
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: for me to take on, because there's no way I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: would have never written it. I think I did have.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: A you can do a sequel book, It's possible.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe, But I do like that time period. I like
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: it too. It sort of ends in nineteen eighty eighty
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: two with Alan Swayale being you know, disappearing sort of.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I mean that's kind of the it's kind of time period.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: It also kind of ends with another performer when he
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: passes on. I think he passed on in what the
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: nineteen nineties. But really I was trying to do the
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: pulp fiction thing where time didn't make any difference, that
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: you could jump back and forth through the stories. But
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: before for the most part, the book kind of ends
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: in what sixty one or sixty two, you know, when
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: you know, when when a couple of everybody's careers was
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: going down, you know, things like that happening. So I
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: was I was just trying to pick a time period.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: If I kept going past that, I don't know, I
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: don't know, it probably would have been very boring.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I would.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Find the Bookdown Rock website at Bookdownrock dot com. There
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: you can find all the back episodes of the show,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: ilit this episode in video and audio, links to all
• 52:57
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• 53:00
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• 53:05
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• 53:08
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• 53:11
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• 53:17
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• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Are there still unexplored stories or legends in rock history
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: or have we really pretty much we've heard them all? Yeah?
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I don't think so, I really don't. I think what's
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: the band Manic Street Preachers. Yeah, well, he was the
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: rhythm guitarist, Richie. I can't remember his last name. He
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: disappeared what in ninety four, I think, and people were
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: still saying that they see him walking around out there
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: in Manchester, which I don't think. He More than likely
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: he probably did commit suicide. Like the police think.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: It's the guy. They wonder if he was abducted by
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: aliens he disappeared.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is a great one. I did
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: want to include that.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Sullim is Jim Sullivan.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do one in Mexico's family. His family
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: is still alive, his kids are still alive. I didn't
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: want to. I didn't want to get any repercussions from that.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, but I love that. I
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: did start a story about him. I remember Chauncey want
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: me to write that story. And I think Jessica Catana
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: wrote an article about that because I asked her.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've known just from going back to our radio days. Yeah,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: and she writes for the magazine. She's great. She's got
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: her own podcasts as well.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great podcast. But that I wanted that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: I wanted that to be in the book, but I
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: couldn't really do it.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it wasn't there. It was a folks singer.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Well there's one. I'm thinking There was a bea for
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: a band who cleaned to have inside knowledge.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: And he disappeared. Yes, but they found that they found
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: the tracks. He fell off a mountain. Oh, Okay, in California,
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: hold on, hold on, it's Iron Butterfly. Yes, but he's
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: not the original bass player. He's like fourth or fifth
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: down the line, and he played a little bit in
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: the eighties. Then he became a scientist.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When I read that article a Ultimate Classic Rocks,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what yeah, crazy Yeah, Yeah, Philip Taylor Kramer,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I think is the one that's him.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: That's him? Now, Man, some great, No, we're not done.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: We're we're still talking about Tupac is probably still alive. Yeah,
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theories are abound, you know that, they're they're more
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: popular than.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Ever because of the Internet and and those podcasts that
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you listen to that we'll just tell you anything, man, they.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Just they they will and and I'm so grateful that
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: there's podcasts like yours that just you know, at least
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: you bring the writers on and they.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Could set as much as possible straight from the source,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: But you know what would be fun if you had
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: some one of the ones that just made up the
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: stories too.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Sure, Hey, as long as you don't harm anybody.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Well that's you know.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I think maybe there's a story there about like the
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: podcaster who disappears mysteriously disappears.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Well that was that was sort of the original plot
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: of this book. And that's and he receives this.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Uh if you call that person eric, I'm really no.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: You know what his name was. It was Calvin Swale
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: was yeah Swale as in you know, he's probably a scammer,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: as what I was thinking.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: But you know, I'm looking behind me. Is there anybody.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: You're thinking that shape is behind breeze coming through. Man.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks man. There's the book is out now, rock
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: and roll goes right.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mostly he put it up on Amazon and Google Books.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: But there there are sites other sites that it goes to.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: You know, there's there's that I forgot. Uh, there's a
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: couple of British sites that will go to. It goes
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: to a Books. Eventually he uses some sort of algorithm
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: that it wants you publish it on Amazon. It just
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: goes everywhere.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: So he is the who the person that publishes the book. Chauncey, Oh,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Chauncey you're talking about.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Chauncey and loth are worked on this book. It's
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: screaming O screen I Press.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: So let's let's plug that too. So the book is
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: out now. People can look for uh, screaming eye press.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I think if they go to the website there it's
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: got to be it's there. Plug the magazine the website
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: where people can find.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: You screaming I press. Uh. You probably you could look
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: me up on Facebook if you wish. You'll probably find
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: a hundred other marks, just like two or three other
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: March slades on Amazon. That's not me. I'm definitely not
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: the guy who writes the porn and I'm not the
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: actor Mark Slade from High Chaparral. But it's cool if
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: you want to say I am whatever.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, here you go. Your book is right there, front
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: and center on Screaming eyepress dot com.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been promoting it heavy. He's been doing really
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: good with it.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: You know. It's an awesome cover. Who did the cover?
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Cameron Hampton. She's just done a lot of
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: work for us.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the magazine.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Cameron. Cameron is so nice. She I met Cameron. I
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: think the station is still around, a cable station called Ovation.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: It's like an art channel. But they used to have
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: their they used to have their own website and I
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: used to go on there and look up artists and stuff.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: And I saw hers and I saw that she was available.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Anybody could email her, and I emailed her. Then she said, well,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I'm on Facebook. You want to talk about some projects? Know?
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: So nice someone nice. And that was back in oh
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: my gosh, twenty eleven. So I've known her even longer
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: than than Chauncey and.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Uh and yeah, thumbs up on this one. And she
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: did a great job on the cover. That's it. So yeah,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: people I'll put the links as many links as I
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: can in the show notes so people can find Oh.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: We also have a Spotify Spotify.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, she told me about that, so I could put
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the link to that.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's there's also uh two audio stories from
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: the book. There's the Janice Martin one. Uh is there
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: on Spotify? Yeah, it's on Spotify if you haven't yet,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I have them. I have them. I'm also getting one
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: or two more stories that's gonna be read. I don't
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: want to do too many, because you know, I don't
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: want to do the entire book to be free. Then
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: you know nobody will buy.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: It, right. That's why I say we picked a few
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: stories here, but there's a lot more if we don't
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: want to give it all away. But no, Mark, thanks
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: for coming on, Thanks for all your support.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Every time you post something, I hit like and I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: reshare it as much as possible. It's it's a great
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: source of information because I think there was a handful
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: of stories I would not The Carl Perkins story Shoe
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Shoe would not have been written without you interviewing the writer. That.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. Oh he'll be happy, happy to know
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: that he's a great guy from Australia.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot that it was from Australia. Well that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: that that story about the woman shooting the guy in
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: the club that Carl was playing at, that's that's in
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: my story.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's cool. So I I'll reach out to him
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: and and let him know I'm just as Jeff Jeff
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: after that, Jeff I forgot about. Jeff is a really
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: nice guy and I've had him on a couple of
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: times and hope to have him back on again and.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Tell him for me, that is one of the best
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: biographies I've ever read. Will I read it in like
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: three or four days. And another thing, if it wasn't
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: for me being on your podcast before that, I wouldn't
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: have gotten back and reading books about music. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I mean I try to construct it so if you're
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: not an avid reader, that's okay. You're still going to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: get the great stories. But you hope that you know,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: one out of every ten people that usually don't read
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: me end up picking up a book and have like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: you have where you either start reading again or you
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: just never were a big reader before. And there's so
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: much out there. There's so many great books out there.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: And if it wasn't for this kindle that I have,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have gotten back into it as much. I
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: mean I would have. I mean, you can't write without reading.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: I just probably wouldn't have been reading those. And right
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: now I'm reading one about Jack Holtzman and Electra Records.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, okay, it's great.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: He wrote it actually, but it's more in a which
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: is a strange way of doing a book. It's not
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: even written like your normal book. It's interview style. So
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: everybody it's ever been connected to him as being interviewed.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Gotcha in their story. Yeah, well, we just did an
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: episode on Stereo Lab. They were on the Electra.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know the door. I know. I listened to
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: that Sunday and thank you. I never heard of them.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Mark, thanks again man, and yeah, we will
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: talk to you agatting down the Road. All the best
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: on the book, man, it's a it's a winner.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate it. Eric M. That's it. It's in
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the books.