Latest / At the Table / Building the Leadership Pipeline: Strategies for Succession Planning in Schools

Transcript

Building the Leadership Pipeline: Strategies for Succession Planning in Schools · At the Table

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to At the Table, a podcast by the Ohio Leadership Advisory Council.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth Lawley, Co-Director of OLAC.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is a space where Ohio education leaders come together to explore timely and relevant topics shaping leadership, learning, and school improvement across the state.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a superintendent, principal, coach, or classroom teacher, there's a seat for you here.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today, my guest is Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Michael Tefts, who is the director of the Superintendent Licensure Program in the Educational Leadership Area at Ashland University.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being with us today, Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Tefts.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have you here.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Livia, it's great to be here.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for doing these with your immense amount of experience and leadership.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: These will be great for the field and for Ohio and beyond to watch and engage with.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Michael, you're currently teaching at Ashland University and working with uh superintendent candidates and potentially principals as well who want to be superintendents.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us about the changes from being a superintendent to offering coursework to train and develop new principals and superintendents?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's funny you say the principals program as well.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am the director of the superintendent licensure program, and I would love to say that that keeps me busy and full-time.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we don't have enough people in the field that want to become superintendents.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we could talk probably all day long about the responsibilities and the roles of leading a school system, but it's a it's a terrific opportunity to engage with and help those that are going to be leading our schools.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I don't fill fill that program, uh I'm heavily engaged in the principal licensure work at Ashland, and uh that's a terrific process as well.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we anchor um more of our work than you even might imagine with uh with what's on that OLAC website.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, I think I think what we're trying to do is create a program that's authentic and organic about the what the work looks like every day.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's interesting.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I received a phone call the other day from our college library and said, Dr.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Tefts, we're not seeing the books that you've ordered yet for your course.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's intentional.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Our principals and teacher leaders looking to become principals, and our principals look become looking to become a superintendent.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sadly, they just don't have the time to read those.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the time we have with those in the field, we're trying to help them with the easiest transition into that leadership role.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly, we don't have a lot of text-based conversations at Ashland University, but the work looks like, feels like, and sounds like what it's going to be to be a principal or be a superintendent every day.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I can only say that your students are extremely lucky to have you uh with your experience over the years and in a couple of different districts.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they have a great opportunity to learn from somebody who's who's been at all those levels and who's done very well and been very, very successful.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've known each other a long time uh in our in our earlier lives as we were moving through um our careers.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that really concerns me, uh, Michael, is the fact that we don't have a solid pipeline of superintendent candidates and a solid pipeline for principalships.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Even now, it used to be high school principalships were were difficult to find high-quality high school principals.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Even today, elementary principals, there's a gap there.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about what we can do to make sure people understand, number one, the role.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: What does the role do?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: What opportunities are there for me to support students?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I need to do to make sure that that I can still maintain my family, that I can still maintain my health, uh, that I can still maintain my mental abilities when I'm doing these roles, because they have changed from the time that you and I entered the field.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And could you talk a little bit about the idea of uh building within, uh, from within a school district, for example, how can we support through shared leadership, which you and I both believe strongly in, how can we support building our own, um, our own new superintendent, our own new principles through some type of model like that?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you framed it perfectly with succession planning.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I hear in the field every day, and this is relatively new, um, and in all the positions that you had, when you would post a position, the proverbial market would come and provide you plenty of candidates to look at and evaluate.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if I hear it every week, the market is no longer supplying enough candidates.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So school district leadership really is focusing internally, and it is on succession planning.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned distributive leadership.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have here at OLAC, and the state of Ohio has the right model in place with that teacher-based team, your growing teacher leaders, that building leadership team, the district leadership team.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: The right human capital, the right intellectual capital is there.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: But how we look at those people as a district really is gonna matter.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm gonna say next is gonna be highly controversial.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I understand this, but I don't have quantitative data on this, but qualitatively, districts that have professional development dollars within their collective bargaining agreement to help teachers get their masters, those are the districts that are not having any difficulty filling those principal positions because they are helping those teacher leaders get their master's degree, get their principal's license, and they're rising up to lead, to lead others.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that's really difficult from a taxpayer dollar perspective, but if we don't look a little more innovatively and differently about how we grow our own, the problem that you led with in that conversation is how do we do that?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: The market, I just don't think is gonna bail us out anymore.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really gonna have to take care of our own and think about how are we gonna grow our own?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it is probably going to be a cost.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't do it, there's gonna be a cost.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I and I think some of us are suffering uh from that lack of paying for the master's degree, paying for the principal licensure program, and that sort of thing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I know that in districts where I served as a superintendent, um, and this is controversial, at one point I met with the union president and I said, you need to go for tuition reimbursement in the next contract.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm the superintendent, and I'm saying that to the union president, but that was something that was important in that district.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they needed, they needed to know.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: They needed to know that that was something that could be on the table, that I would support, and that needed to happen in that district because it's too difficult to find um replacements for people that were retiring or moving on.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and thinking about that, um, there are lots of courses that are offered at um Ashland and other universities that do preparation programs for principals and for superintendents.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about the um courses that you provide that are really things that um are really going to be what I need to know?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and not the just the general liberal arts things that we took whenever we were doing undergraduate, but what really important courses, classes, and maybe even activities can students anticipate whenever they're they're taking a principalship uh master's degree or a superintendent licensure program?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: We should put the camera on you and your nonverbals as I explain this because it's really following your pathway and exactly how you worked your way from an educator to to a leader.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: It it is the difference between management and leadership.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the IHEs, the uh uh the higher ed institutions in the state of Ohio, but not just at Ashland, um, all the ones that I talk with are really focused on leadership.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And how we define leadership is it's really the adults.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times we talk about it's with the kids.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: When you're an educational leader, a principal superintendent, if you build the culture and climate for adults to be successful, the adults do a great job of taking care of the kids, but it we can talk about the data to be data literate and the data analysis, we can talk about root cause analysis.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is the leadership though to make all that happen.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and the term we like to use is working in it versus working on it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: The leadership side is working on it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Management is working in it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're a principal and a superintendent, there are times when I'd look back over a two-week period and it was busy and I worked in it every day, and I didn't work on it at all.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be really intentional, and I think that's what we try to do at the university is help our students be intentional about working on it, what that does look like, feel like, and sound like, how you go about that, and make sure that it's a distributive manner that all parties are involved in in the process.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of principal candidates, superintendent candidates haven't been raised, if you will, in a collaborative or distributive leadership school district.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh many have, but there are also those that want to be uh administrators that have not had that experience.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of things do you do at Ashland to make sure that they actually experience that before they're put into a building, uh, before they're hired as a superintendent, to make sure that they understand that the way to success is through that type of leadership?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and I haven't thought about that as much, but you and I were both kind of raised um a long time ago.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like 2007, um, 2008, when this distributive leadership um was a strategic initiative and a strategic priority in the state of Ohio.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really been about five years since we've been consistent with that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm super excited about um Ohio's integrated MTSS approach, and I'm I'm eager to see the leadership model for that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: But as I'm talking with a principal, teacher leaders becoming a principal, and principals becoming a superintendent, when I say, what is your school improvement model?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: The last thing you want is crickets.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have something.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I'm I'm a disciple of the Ohio improvement process and I'm a big believer in those protocols and those systems, but have a model and what I'm seeing differently today than what I saw maybe five, six, seven years ago when you would say, What is your leadership model?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: They would be able to say what that model looks like.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: When you know that, you can start to look at those protocols, uh, those systems that that are being deployed.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's the the beauty of the Ohio Leadership Advisory Council and OIP is it's not just the model, but it's the protocols and systems that make that model come alive.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um so at the university to answer your question, we're teaching them how to really be a facilitator.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're asking questions a lot of times that you already know the answers to, but you're you're cultivating and creating that conversation among other adults to really look at the system.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the system working?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where can we improve the system?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: That root cause analysis, looking at student achievement data.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And probably we could debate the five-step process all day long, but the part of the five-step process that I like the most, that I think most struggle with is progress monitoring.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: The best systems, and what we try to teach our principals and superintendents is when you initiate that plan, when are you coming back to that?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: How are you progress monitoring that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: We know the old model was well, we did it when the data came back out in August.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: We really want to see our educational leaders looking at that in October, November, December.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't working.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make a mid-course correction.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Try again, January, February, March.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's where where you really see movement in lots of different numbers, not just student achievement, but whatever number you happen to be be measuring at that time.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's those protocols and those systems, I think.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned the new integrated MTSS um model that the um state is rolling out.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're part of a planning team for that at this point in time, for that new leadership framework.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know so much about the OIP process.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know about the leadership framework that was put out by OLAC and then revised in 2022.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um you were part of all that work.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are some similarities and differences that you're seeing that you can actually share?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are what are some of those similarities and differences to to what we can expect to happen?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the similarities that I see right now is the vocabulary is somewhat consistent.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm seeing teacher-based teams, I'm seeing building leadership teams.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm not seeing quite as much yet at the district level, but I'm sure that that's going to come into play.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I like the vocabulary that's there.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think the leadership framework really has yet to be developed.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So until we really see that, but I'm excited about the conversations around the table.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for example, um, we were talking about an implementation rubric.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um the OIP had an implementation rubric, multiple versions actually have an implementation rubric.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is what does it really look like to implement a school improvement model?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And are you at the developing level or are you at the exemplary level, or are you somewhere in between?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can look at different facets of data literacy, of culture and climate, and you can measure yourself.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're having that conversation about what does an implementation rubric look like with this new integrated MTSS.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm confident that they're gonna get there.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is heavy work.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is really difficult.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not for the faint of heart.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say to principals all the time when they would get frustrated with, oh, I just can't get there fast enough.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fast.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: School improvement is a lot about culture and climate and just part of the ecosystem of being inquisitive and constantly looking at the data.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: What can you have that growth mindset to have a better, uh, a better school?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it just takes time.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to have a system.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't just happen magically, and you will get stuck working in it because you're managing a large group of students and and adults.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to make time to work on it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the distributive leadership model that Ohio already has, and then I can see that they're trying to embed into the new work.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm confident that uh it it'll be a terrific process.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gonna take time.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's one thing that we don't allow ourselves very frequently.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um we don't allow ourselves the grace of time.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh do we have an opportunity to actually take a breath and and realize that having the same goals for three years in a row is okay.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay because it's gonna take me three to five potentially to get that goal achieved with changing systems, changing people.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, not just okay.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those three goals probably are the standard.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're really doing the right work, when you develop that goal, to truly see that goal come to fruition, it probably will take three to five years.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So not just okay, it's probably that's the standard the way it should be.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and most of us don't realize that because we do have 15 things that have to be done in order for us to see what we came there to do.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I'm talking with new superintendents who are in their first year of their superintendency, one of the main problems that they're having is it's not fast enough.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and I am constantly saying to them, put a brick on your head, take a deep breath, because it's not going to be fast.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to change systems, you've got to change mindsets, you've got to change the culture, you've you've got to just change the attitude overall about what school is about today.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very difficult for them.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't I I envy you still working at the at the university level because I love my time at the university level, but it's it's a different, it's a different world today.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it takes a different kind of program like you're creating in Ashland or have created at Ashland for it to be um representative of what's happening in the field right now.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what's that's what's invigorating about uh the partnerships that we have with um Ashland, the partnership we have with you and the Ohio Leadership Advisory Council, um, because we know that you and several other universities are actually using a lot of the work that has been developed by educational leaders around Ohio for the last many years and are using those to actually teach and reach out to candidates andor current principals and current superintendents, so we really appreciate that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've talked a lot about leadership, and it's it's especially a vital part of a quality organization.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you talk with us uh about the work that you do?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: The leaders in position right now, um, they're they're working through that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of strategies and support systems does Ashland provide their graduates or uh others that reach out to them that are in those positions?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: About how to how to get started.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or how to keep going.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've hit a wall and and I need some extra support.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are fortunate at Ashland, they have a whole different work set of the organization called Professional Learning Services.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh PLS is uh there's actually an office in this building.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is a real partnership and connection with the College of Education.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the system is so well designed that we are taking teacher leaders, principal leaders through a licensure process.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're getting credentialed, they're getting a position.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your question, but you're when you're a practicing leader, now what?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they often will end up because they're gonna need to renew a license, they'll end up at professional learning services, and it's the conversations.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Dr.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Powell, Jim Powell, is the executive director of PLS.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Jim and I talk probably daily.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: His office is right around the corner from mine, and he's saying, Listen, I'm having a conversation with maybe I should connect you too on that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it it is a really nice opportunity for you to go through the licensure process, earn that credential, become a practicing leader, go through the trials and tribulations of what that's like, and then be able to fall back in a professional learning community and say, boy, I can my DLT is not working.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help me with that?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's that connection happens and we're we're back engaged with that person.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And usually we can help them to the point that while they're learning to improve their district leadership team or improve the collaboration of their building leadership team, they're also earning hours and renewing their license that way.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the right work, it's the right conversation.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't become an expert at the end of your licensure process.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You and I have been doing this a long time, and we we're far from the experts at it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great opportunity.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure that there was something like that after I finished my licensure programs.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, we try to find other superintendents that can mentor us or, you know, other principals that can we can talk to, but we really didn't have an organized place that we could go for additional work.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a wonderful opportunity.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um as we get ready to close, I I have um just one final question for you about um new and exciting things or or things that Ashland's planning as we as we move into um, you know, we're we constantly are closing down one year and then opening up a new year, um, and we do the same thing at the university level.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things that um are on the forefront um moving forward uh for Ashland in the future?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, right now it it is the integrated MTSS.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um our program is anchored in the OIP.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's that's still that way today.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to open up any of our curriculum in probably seven different courses, it's heavily um anchored in OIP.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have to fix all of that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're really gonna have to move our work over to the to the integrated MTSS work.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited about that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we're gonna still really hold our focus on what we believe, what we see is a leader gets a position, they work in it really well.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: They handle the daily behaviors, uh, they handle a culture and climate pretty well.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the working on it that is difficult.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't you have to make time for that.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So building in our curriculum instruction and assessment program, we're talking about how you have to make time for adults to come together.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I hear it one more time about it's, you know, the master schedule just doesn't allow it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in a leadership role, you've got to create that opportunity.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You had a great conversation with your union leadership about how we have to grow our own.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have you also had great conversations with your labor relations about we've got to find time to meet?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to create better time for adults to meet.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um just had a had a had a meeting with a board of education just uh last week about the the recommendation was to reduce some student time.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was about seven minutes a day.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh doesn't sound like a lot, but over a week and over a year, that particular board member was anxious about that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: What was going to be happening with that extra seven minutes a day where adults could come together and really work on the system?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And my advice to the board of to the board member was I'd I'd give them a little bit of room here and watch what happens in that professional learning community because the impact on your particular school might be impressive.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's great advice because we know that most of the instruction occurs in the first 15 minutes of a class.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then we we do busy work potentially, we do conversations with kids.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if we still allow phones, which we're not supposed to, you know, students are on phones.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that was great advice uh for them.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can't thank you enough for uh being here and sharing your expertise.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's always it's always a pleasure, and it's always um so insightful, and and I learn from you every time I talk with you, so I really appreciate it, uh Michael.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and thank you for joining us at the table.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth Lawley, and it's been a pleasure to have you with us.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you found today's conversation valuable, be sure to subscribe and share with your colleagues.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: For more leadership tools and professional learning resources, visit ohioleadership.org.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, keep leading with purpose.