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Nobody Gets To Beat Themselves Up with Shawn Mahshie · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gymiferson.
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Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
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Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
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Speaker 1: show five for three, two and one, our folks, Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
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Speaker 1: guest today. Sean Mashi Sean, welcome.
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Speaker 2: Thanks guy. Very excited to be here.
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Speaker 1: Appreciate it awesome. Sean is an internationally recognized author, speaker,
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Speaker 1: and self love coach based near Washington, d C. She
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Speaker 1: specializes in helping purpose driven women overcome burnout and self
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Speaker 1: abandonment through her Signature Living and Symmetry approach. The system
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Speaker 1: integrates her wheel of self forgiveness with her expertise as
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Speaker 1: a certified facilitator of the work of Byron Katie to
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Speaker 1: transform anxiety into empowered action. Her methodology is deeply informed
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Speaker 1: by her own lived experience of overcoming chronic illness and
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Speaker 1: personal people by learning to stand in her own corner.
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Speaker 1: Through her retreats and coaching, she guides clients to build
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Speaker 1: the internal safety and self solidarity needed to live with
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Speaker 1: lasting peace and competence. All right, Sean, just a little
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Speaker 1: bit about you before we get go and share with
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Speaker 1: our listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Well, I'm originally from a small town in Iowa. I
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Speaker 2: had what looked from the outside to be a very
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Speaker 2: idyllic childhood, wonderful parents, and yet it's amazing the way
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Speaker 2: the brain can get wired for trauma, often passed down
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Speaker 2: from their trauma. So yeah, then by way of California
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Speaker 2: and came to grad school in Washington, d C. Now
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Speaker 2: I live in a magical spot on the Chesapeake Bay,
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Speaker 2: where I call it Chesapeake Paradise, where I hold my retreats,
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Speaker 2: and it's about forty five minutes east of Washington, d C.
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Speaker 2: And south of Annapolis, Maryland, right on the water. A
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Speaker 2: couple of country country like acres.
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Speaker 1: Is so awesome. All right, So let's start. How did
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Speaker 1: all this begin for you?
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Speaker 2: Hmm? Well, started very early, I'm quite sure. And I
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Speaker 2: think back on those dinner table moments, particularly after church
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Speaker 2: of all things, when my mom would just turn into
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Speaker 2: this massive self hatred and start just turning on herself
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Speaker 2: with disgust and also on others, and those moments, it
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Speaker 2: was as if she had completely abandoned me. So my
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Speaker 2: response was to abandon myself do whatever it took to
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Speaker 2: make it feel better for her. And I think all
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Speaker 2: that you know that when when fight and flee aren't
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Speaker 2: safe for children, they go with the other two, freeze
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Speaker 2: and fawn, And I think it's easy for the brain
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Speaker 2: to get wired to turn on ourselves. So for me,
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Speaker 2: that really became my life story of going into should
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Speaker 2: it would have could. I would call it regret hell
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Speaker 2: because there was almost nothing I could do to stop
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Speaker 2: the flood of shame and self hatred, even after decades
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Speaker 2: of inner work, until until I found what we're going
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Speaker 2: to talk about. So yeah, it was my life eventually
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Speaker 2: crashed by even though I was well known in my field,
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Speaker 2: speaking on world stages with a book in that field,
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Speaker 2: and still crashed into chronic illness, was on disability for
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Speaker 2: fifteen years. My health, marriage, and career crashed in the
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Speaker 2: space of nine months, and it was still ten years
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Speaker 2: of inner work. Every kind of nutritional Eastern Western medicine
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Speaker 2: araveda I can puncture the best energy were people out there,
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Speaker 2: and I still couldn't stop beating myself up and.
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Speaker 1: All right, So when all this started, how old were
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Speaker 1: you at that dinner table?
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Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I'm sure it was earlier, having worked
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Speaker 2: with so many women who are wired as young as
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Speaker 2: three to know what's safe and not safe with their parents.
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Speaker 2: But one that I write about in the book that's
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Speaker 2: coming out soon is I think I was eight and
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Speaker 2: just that, you know, turning into I'm going to become invisible,
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Speaker 2: whatever it takes to please play Kate, get her back.
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Speaker 2: And yet I learned later the hard way, that it
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Speaker 2: wasn't her I needed to get back, or my husband
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Speaker 2: or any of the other people I had transferred that to.
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Speaker 2: It was me I needed to get back. I was
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Speaker 2: the one who abandoned myself, no other choices in that moment.
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Speaker 2: But that's the journey I help people on now. Even
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Speaker 2: have a boot camp called get You Back.
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Speaker 1: So we're going to get there. But I just want
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Speaker 1: to get a little more specific about how this unfolded
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Speaker 1: for you as a young kid right high school. What
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Speaker 1: was happening for you during that time middle school, high school?
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Speaker 1: How is this manifesting for you?
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Speaker 2: Very much than not enough story doing what I see
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Speaker 2: so many women doing is agreeing to terms you don't
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Speaker 2: want in your relationships particularly pleasing.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I call them pretzel people, where we turn ourselves into
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Speaker 2: a pretzel to please playcate and put our needs last. Yeah, definitely,
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Speaker 2: So that's happening.
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Speaker 1: You go to college, I'm assuming, Yeah.
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Speaker 2: College, but I was out to save the world. So
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Speaker 2: only two years at Iowa State University. Then I joined
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Speaker 2: a volunteer serchorganization with the Mennonite Church even though I
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Speaker 2: wasn't men and I had sent me to California where
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Speaker 2: I became involved in deaf education. And that's what my
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Speaker 2: career and my master's in Sign language linguistics, in fact,
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Speaker 2: my other book that was kind of, you know, change
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Speaker 2: the face of deaf education back in nineteen ninety five.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, to California, and from there, you know, a
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Speaker 2: marriage that just started crashing very.
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Speaker 1: Soon because why, I would.
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Speaker 2: Say, out of my own self hatred, not just constantly
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Speaker 2: looking over my shoulder, the way I managed my time,
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Speaker 2: what I said, what I did. I couldn't leave a
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Speaker 2: meeting at my job without going in and finding the
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Speaker 2: one thing I could beat myself up for either I
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Speaker 2: should have said something or I said too much? Why
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Speaker 2: didn't I? And if only and I think the brain
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Speaker 2: was wired so early to replay, to really terrorize myself
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Speaker 2: with images of what could have been.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So simultaneously it looks like you're having this thriving career,
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Speaker 1: beautiful life.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful life, beautiful life. You look, everything from childhood
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Speaker 2: on has always looked good on the outside, even the marriage,
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Speaker 2: married to a professor, waterfront home, finally adopted our child
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Speaker 2: from China. Everything's looking good. And I'm speaking on world
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Speaker 2: stages and totally crashing on the inside.
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Speaker 1: Now, when you say crashing on the inside, what does
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Speaker 1: that mean? Why did the and why did the marriage fail?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't having worked with so many women, don't
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Speaker 2: believe there is no necessarily one reason. But I would
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Speaker 2: say that lack of self support what I now have
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Speaker 2: come to call self solidarity, there was. I was always
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Speaker 2: giving it away, wired to sort of we go through
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Speaker 2: others that you can almost see where codependence is born
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Speaker 2: out of the childhood trauma, and we start shuttling back
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Speaker 2: and forth to get those responses. So the minute things
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Speaker 2: didn't go the way I planned, I would turn on myself.
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Speaker 2: The minute somebody was angry or even uncomfortable, particularly my husband.
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Speaker 2: So it was very easy to drain myself. And it
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Speaker 2: was combined with, you know, having had various autoimmune things
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Speaker 2: along the way that kept, I believe, being exacerbated. It's
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Speaker 2: almost like my body learned from my psyche to turn
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Speaker 2: on itself. So physical pain, autoimmune disorders, that and adrenal
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Speaker 2: just blowing out adrenaline all the time through anxiety, and
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Speaker 2: which is almost funny because now no physical pain, no
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Speaker 2: chronic illnesses, and I'm never tired. It's a very strange
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Speaker 2: thing after all those years of fatigue and overwhelmed. So
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Speaker 2: it just showed me how much the thinking would and
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Speaker 2: the way it was wired into my body. It was
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Speaker 2: very somatic, always some kind of chronic condition coming up,
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Speaker 2: one after the other.
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Speaker 1: Were you seeking any help at this.
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Speaker 2: Point, Oh yeah, lots, yeah.
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Speaker 1: And hold on a second, And were you seeking that
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Speaker 1: help because of what was happening, like something's wrong, I
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Speaker 1: have an illness, I have a sickness. Or had you
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Speaker 1: connected the dots to back at that dinner table in
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Speaker 1: a sense.
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Speaker 2: You know, I think it was both. I fairly early
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Speaker 2: on learn learned that the should have story was completely
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Speaker 2: my downfall. Even at age three, my own daughter said, Mommy,
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Speaker 2: you said should have? So I guess I've made it
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Speaker 2: into a dirty word in our house, like nobody gets
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Speaker 2: to go beat themselves up. Because I was really wired
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Speaker 2: to believe there could have been some other reality, and
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Speaker 2: I believe children's brains kind of go into external blame
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Speaker 2: where everything is about judging others and wanting them to change,
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Speaker 2: or internal blaming, and I got the internal side. But
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Speaker 2: what I've learned is is they are flip sides of
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Speaker 2: the same coin, and that everyone, you know, if you
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Speaker 2: are over there being the judgmental one and feeling the
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Speaker 2: pain of always separating yourself from life and others as
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Speaker 2: they are, usually when we start doing this wheel of
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Speaker 2: self forgiveness work, they find they are extremely self critical
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Speaker 2: underneath all that judgment. In fact, maybe the external judgment
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Speaker 2: it is a protection from looking at you know, from
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Speaker 2: experiencing their own self hatred. But because I had gone
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Speaker 2: in that direction, because of all the somatic conditions, I
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Speaker 2: was able to fairly early on spot things related to
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Speaker 2: the mind body connection. I started believing it was all
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Speaker 2: my way of handling stress and that I shouldn't even
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Speaker 2: attend to physical things. So about ten of them stacked up,
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Speaker 2: and you know, and abscess to a number of things
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Speaker 2: that were contributing. So it's always this dance between how
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Speaker 2: do the mind and body work together? How does the
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Speaker 2: trauma response get triggered? In so many different ways? But yeah,
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Speaker 2: I generally was on the path. I was a seeker.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start to get there. When did when
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Speaker 1: did you realize? When did you start to get help?
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Speaker 1: When did things start? Okay, this is working, Maybe I'm
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Speaker 1: on this healing path. When did that happen for you?
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Speaker 2: You know? So many wonderful self help books along the way,
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Speaker 2: particularly getting in trouble in my marriage, but there had
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Speaker 2: always been a lot of abandonment, fear, and relationships again
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Speaker 2: causing me to agree to things I didn't necessarily want
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Speaker 2: and be afraid to leave or let the relationship fail.
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Speaker 2: But I would say really mostly in my marriage, and
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Speaker 2: one of the books I had read was Feel the
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Speaker 2: Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers, and those
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Speaker 2: kind of affirmations and things were really helpful, and yet
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Speaker 2: didn't get to and never have as far as I've
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Speaker 2: seen from my clients, that the real self hatred stuff,
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Speaker 2: because I believe it's wired for revival, not for recovery. Actually,
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Speaker 2: I heard Janina Fisher, one of your guests, say that
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Speaker 2: our trauma is wired for survival, not recovery, and especially
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Speaker 2: if if your psyche believe you are helping yourself by
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Speaker 2: beating yourself up, putting yourself last, making yourself less than
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Speaker 2: not trusting your intuitions. Indecisiveness was one of the really
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Speaker 2: big ones, and I have almost completely recovered from that.
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Speaker 2: It will find that if you know how to stop
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Speaker 2: the regret health thing and stop beating yourself up, there's
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Speaker 2: very little fear of making your wrong decision because the
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Speaker 2: worst outcome was what you would do to yourself anyway.
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Speaker 2: It's those emotional states we fear. So I would say
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Speaker 2: those wonderful self help books along the way and counseling,
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Speaker 2: and yet I had counselors who are just basically listening
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Speaker 2: and didn't have a clue, who didn't really have the
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Speaker 2: tools to help. So I would say the biggest breakthrough
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Speaker 2: after all those years of seeking and even trying to
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Speaker 2: recover from the chronic illnesses was finding the work of
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Speaker 2: Byron Katie, which was just four questions and turn the
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Speaker 2: thoughts around and understanding how much everything was being triggered
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Speaker 2: by the thinking.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so give us the give us a little bit
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Speaker 1: about Byron Katie, not too much. But what was it
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Speaker 1: about her work? You said four questions? What were those
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Speaker 1: four questions? And for those interested, she has been a
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Speaker 1: guest on this podcast.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Well, and I became one of the few
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Speaker 2: in the world certified directly under her in this work
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Speaker 2: over the course of six years. And yet then still
14:55
Speaker 2: took it further for the self forgiveness part. But this
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Speaker 2: part I think what was so helpful, Well, I actually
15:03
Speaker 2: took it further too, to call it the symmetry principle.
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Speaker 2: When I realized that whatever was upsetting me was holding
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Speaker 2: the key to my path out of it. That was
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Speaker 2: the beginning of the end of fear. If I could
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Speaker 2: use my judgments, fears, feeling victimized, reactions to life, whatever
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Speaker 2: that was, as my direct path to piece, then I figure,
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Speaker 2: no bad outcomes. You're either love in life or using
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Speaker 2: what hurts to wake yourself up. Give me so with
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Speaker 2: the work of Byron Katie that to really, you know,
15:38
Speaker 2: how so much out there we are told in the
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Speaker 2: spiritual space or particularly religion churches will say don't judge,
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Speaker 2: and yet our judge, our brain is a judging machine.
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Speaker 2: It's wired for a good, bad, fat, thin, smart, dumb.
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Speaker 2: And so one genius thing she did was get those
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Speaker 2: judgments on paper, the wonderful thing, just in a very
16:02
Speaker 2: simple format called a Judge your Neighbor worksheet. I'm upset
16:07
Speaker 2: with blank because they we actually go ahead, point the
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Speaker 2: finger at them. I want them right, because no matter
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Speaker 2: how petty or you don't want to admit to anybody else,
16:18
Speaker 2: if that's true, you get it on paper, you become
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Speaker 2: the active listener to those littlest parts of you and
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Speaker 2: not shaming them and not saying you shouldn't feel that way.
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Speaker 2: It's a safe space, or you know, all anger, all
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Speaker 2: war belongs on paper, is what she would say. But
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Speaker 2: anyway that that worksheet is, I'm upset with blank because
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Speaker 2: they I want them to. They should I need them to.
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Speaker 2: They are go ahead, cusswords, expletives, you know in marriage counsel,
16:49
Speaker 2: they're going no labels, no characterisation, go ahead and characterize
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Speaker 2: them whatever it is. And then I don't ever what
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Speaker 2: it is. You don't ever want to experience about this again.
16:59
Speaker 2: And the trick when I first started, she was doing
17:04
Speaker 2: that in a very general way. But they moved into
17:06
Speaker 2: work in a very specific moment, a specific triggering situation,
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Speaker 2: And that just makes such a huge difference from every
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Speaker 2: other kind of work I've seen, because you're actually revisiting
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Speaker 2: the moment what was I thinking and believing? And then
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Speaker 2: it turns out that with the question for once you
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Speaker 2: get those thoughts on paper and you question them, is
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Speaker 2: it true? Can I absolutely know it's true? How do
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Speaker 2: I react camera off the other person or what they're
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Speaker 2: doing on me? No judgment, just observation. How do I
17:45
Speaker 2: react when I believe that thought? And this is the
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Speaker 2: one that I hadn't seen in any other spiritual approach.
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Speaker 2: Who would I be in that exact moment without that thought?
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Speaker 2: Imagine the thought has been lifted. You see you look
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Speaker 2: at their little face over there, the person who's driving
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Speaker 2: you crazy and feels like a siria, And you're like, oh,
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Speaker 2: look at them, they're just over there believing they're thinking
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Speaker 2: as well, and move right into compassion. And then you
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Speaker 2: turn the thought around. And I always say, that's where
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Speaker 2: you find that you're doing to yourself and others what
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Speaker 2: you thought was being done to you. It's the symmetry
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Speaker 2: principle I talk about is that whatever life brings is
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Speaker 2: not only a perfect mirror for you, but it is
18:30
Speaker 2: created out of the lens through which you're looking. And
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Speaker 2: so the gift is whenever somebody shows up really pushing
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Speaker 2: your buttons, you get to find out how they are
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Speaker 2: actually your kind teacher. They are exposing a blind spot
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Speaker 2: and area. And when I say blind spots, it's always
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Speaker 2: linked to childhood trauma. You don't have another way. You
18:54
Speaker 2: actually can't even see what you're doing to cause it
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Speaker 2: for yourself or the way out, you know. And I
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Speaker 2: was a person who would always go in and find
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Speaker 2: my part, then beat myself up and apologize and not
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Speaker 2: be able to change. Well, this is finding your part
19:08
Speaker 2: without blame or shame. Just I call self solidarity, standing
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Speaker 2: with buy and for yourself no matter what were you
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Speaker 2: see what Given what I was thinking and believing, I
19:21
Speaker 2: couldn't have acted any differently. And that's the basis for
19:24
Speaker 2: the wheel of self forgiveness too.
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Speaker 1: All right, let me just remind one I'm speaking with
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Speaker 1: Sean Mashey. So Sean, let's kind of shift a little bit.
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Speaker 1: How are you working with individual as just women? Correct?
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Speaker 2: You know I have clients that are men. I work
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Speaker 2: with couples. This work works really well for men, especially
19:47
Speaker 2: if they're not into talk therapy. And yet the people
19:51
Speaker 2: we were seeming to attract to my retreats and yeah,
19:54
Speaker 2: we've kind of tried to narrate to women, but I'm
19:57
Speaker 2: a global mission. I know we all just don't need
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Speaker 2: to be hurting so much. And there is nothing more
20:04
Speaker 2: important to me than getting it out there so that
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Speaker 2: children grow up knowing this way of questioning their thinking
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Speaker 2: as common knowledge, understanding the steps of the wheel of
20:14
Speaker 2: self forgiveness so that they don't turn on themselves. They
20:19
Speaker 2: instantly find their own innocence and know how to not
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Speaker 2: make themselves wrong and the trauma of abandoning themselves no
20:30
Speaker 2: matter what's happening. I want so much for that to
20:33
Speaker 2: be common knowledge. It's not just for women, but women
20:37
Speaker 2: are the ones that often spot themselves in this self
20:41
Speaker 2: deprecating self abandonment profile.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get specific here. How do you work
20:49
Speaker 1: with your clients. Let's use a case example. Granted everyone's
20:56
Speaker 1: different and every case is different, but what does it
20:59
Speaker 1: look like?
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Speaker 2: Well, I really do. First of all, I do very
21:06
Speaker 2: deep private coaching, and one thing that's different about that
21:09
Speaker 2: than a single counseling sessions is I have text coaching
21:14
Speaker 2: in between, and often these relationships become an actual relationship
21:20
Speaker 2: where people we take on a project together, they become
21:24
Speaker 2: part of my team. There becomes almost like some kind
21:28
Speaker 2: of a friendship where I get to have the feedback
21:31
Speaker 2: of having my own experience of them in real time,
21:35
Speaker 2: not just them coming in and reporting about a third
21:37
Speaker 2: party without that third party presence. So that's been helpful too,
21:42
Speaker 2: to really open it up, I've seen that You've often
21:45
Speaker 2: said that the way to really help people is to
21:50
Speaker 2: completely be your human self, and where they get to
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Speaker 2: see that in me too, but also see how differently
21:58
Speaker 2: I handle things than I use to to that I
22:01
Speaker 2: can risk. So in that private coaching, in my year
22:05
Speaker 2: long Mastermind group which continues on, people become elves, the
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Speaker 2: embracing life fully programmed where women come together in online groups.
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Speaker 2: It's and it's just an amazing level of safety. That
22:21
Speaker 2: also with our retreats, I've been having two retreats a
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Speaker 2: year for since twenty fourteen. We're going on our twenty
22:28
Speaker 2: four to retreat, but now we're starting to do many
22:31
Speaker 2: more per year. So anyway, the way I work also
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Speaker 2: though is to identify. Are you pointing the finger out
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Speaker 2: which in which case I tend to use the work
22:45
Speaker 2: of buying Katie, Or are you pointing towards yourself? Are
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Speaker 2: you beating yourself out believing taking too much responsibility for
22:53
Speaker 2: an outcome that belongs to someone else if it's aimed
22:57
Speaker 2: at you. Then the will of self forgiveness, which is
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Speaker 2: just three simple steps that not only find your own
23:05
Speaker 2: innocence and forgive yourself, but debunk the fears that are
23:10
Speaker 2: causing you to go into regret. How to start with
23:14
Speaker 2: you fear something bad is happening, that again link to trauma,
23:18
Speaker 2: and then we go even further than that to use
23:21
Speaker 2: what it is you find through this process about what
23:24
Speaker 2: you want from others or life and get real specific
23:28
Speaker 2: and find ways to give it to yourself, really really
23:32
Speaker 2: addressing true gaps in self love. Like no cookie cutter,
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Speaker 2: We're going to drink our lemon water and meditate for
23:40
Speaker 2: twenty minutes or whatever those and yet you're still beating
23:43
Speaker 2: yourself up the whole time. This will really expose, based
23:48
Speaker 2: on what you feel you want and need from others,
23:51
Speaker 2: what it is these littlest parts of you want from yourself.
23:55
Speaker 2: So we have various processes, but mostly mind no matter
23:59
Speaker 2: what is based on those two pillars of the work
24:03
Speaker 2: of Byron Katie and my will of self forgiveness depending
24:06
Speaker 2: on whether the finger is pointing in or out.
24:10
Speaker 1: It's an interesting concept, and of course I'm guessing it
24:18
Speaker 1: can be both in and out at some points.
24:21
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, let's.
24:23
Speaker 1: Talk about this a little more. How does what you're
24:26
Speaker 1: doing differ than from quote unquote regular talk therapy?
24:34
Speaker 2: Very much so in my mind, and it's partly what
24:36
Speaker 2: helped me quiet a very overactive brain that was constantly
24:44
Speaker 2: making connections and assigning meaning to things. With either of
24:50
Speaker 2: these processes, we really boil it down to what am
24:53
Speaker 2: I thinking and believing in that moment. And people may say, yeah,
24:58
Speaker 2: but what if the trauma is pre language. I still
25:01
Speaker 2: find that pre language trauma and so much of the
25:05
Speaker 2: somatic reactions in our bodies can be healed by working
25:10
Speaker 2: here and now situations that trigger the trauma response and
25:14
Speaker 2: there's a link back to where that got wired. And
25:19
Speaker 2: we often do go back to that childhood situation and
25:24
Speaker 2: allow the child to say what never could have been said,
25:27
Speaker 2: and to have an advocate that was never there for
25:30
Speaker 2: them and sort of to in some ways rewrite history
25:34
Speaker 2: through a simple process I do with childhood wounds. But
25:39
Speaker 2: for the most part, it boils down to becoming the
25:42
Speaker 2: observer of your thinking, but different than the usual mindfulness practices,
25:48
Speaker 2: we're going further. A lot of times, those littlest parts
25:52
Speaker 2: of us that are believing something scary, they don't want
25:55
Speaker 2: us to put them on a cloud and just observe
25:58
Speaker 2: them and send them. It's like a child who's really
26:02
Speaker 2: scared about something. If you push it away and minimize
26:05
Speaker 2: it for fears, it's just gonna hug your leg and
26:07
Speaker 2: scream louder. And that's chronic illness and relationship dysfunction and
26:12
Speaker 2: all of it. So what we're doing is really bringing
26:17
Speaker 2: that part up, saying no, I see you, I want
26:21
Speaker 2: to hear you, and exposing the errors in its logic.
26:25
Speaker 2: This work neutralizes the thinking so that if you identify
26:30
Speaker 2: a belief and you do this process on it, you
26:33
Speaker 2: have turned it around in such a way that your
26:36
Speaker 2: way over here have polarized belief. I need them to blank,
26:40
Speaker 2: and then you find, oh, I don't need them to
26:42
Speaker 2: and you have as many reasons for that. I need
26:45
Speaker 2: me to with regard to myself and with regard to them.
26:51
Speaker 2: So you find these three kinds of turnarounds that neutralize
26:55
Speaker 2: the thinking, and so it just quiets the mind. Emotional
27:00
Speaker 2: charges just gone. Even physical pain. People could say, wow,
27:04
Speaker 2: you can see still the swelling and everything, but the
27:06
Speaker 2: pain isn't there. And the same with the anger they
27:10
Speaker 2: came in with someone, or the feelings of fear or
27:13
Speaker 2: victimization have just been neutralized. So that's you know. For me, yes,
27:20
Speaker 2: I listen a lot, especially during private therapy. I take
27:23
Speaker 2: copious notes on the computer because what I'm looking for
27:27
Speaker 2: is not history or general themes. I'm looking to grab
27:30
Speaker 2: the exact wording of their thoughts and then when we
27:34
Speaker 2: find the triggering situation, then we do this structured Judge
27:37
Speaker 2: your Neighbor worksheet to really harvest the thinking. But that's
27:41
Speaker 2: by turning around your exact wording that came out of
27:45
Speaker 2: your own mind. That's why it so efficiently neutralizes things
27:49
Speaker 2: that I have been working on for years and regret.
27:54
Speaker 2: I used to be able to lay awake that night
27:58
Speaker 2: worry about it, for we still feel the stab of
28:02
Speaker 2: regret when months years later thinking back on a regret situation,
28:07
Speaker 2: and it can literally be gone in five to twenty
28:10
Speaker 2: minutes because these processes sort of just find those polar
28:15
Speaker 2: opposites so your mind, you know. And it's a lot
28:19
Speaker 2: of stuff too about about presence and not just the
28:23
Speaker 2: idea of presence, because so many people beat themselves up
28:26
Speaker 2: for not being able to be more present or more
28:29
Speaker 2: self loving. So yeah, yeah, so anyway, it really is
28:33
Speaker 2: moving you into it. You don't have to try to
28:35
Speaker 2: legislate your state. You try to love yourself right where
28:40
Speaker 2: you are being totally not present.
28:43
Speaker 1: So okay, okay, all right, how do people learn more
28:46
Speaker 1: about what you're doing, Sean? And everything you're doing? And
28:51
Speaker 1: before you even answer that, you have a book coming out,
28:54
Speaker 1: hopefully it's going to be out by the time this
28:57
Speaker 1: goes live. What's the title of the book.
29:01
Speaker 2: The title of the book is The Will of Self Forgiveness.
29:04
Speaker 2: Three Simple Steps to unconditional self love, self confidence, and
29:09
Speaker 2: self advocacy. The short version is just the Will of
29:13
Speaker 2: Self Forgiveness and it is just three simple steps.
29:17
Speaker 1: Okay, and give us your website how people can learn
29:21
Speaker 1: more about you, Well, just.
29:24
Speaker 2: With my name Seanmashy dot com. And it's an interesting spelling.
29:28
Speaker 2: But I think for right now, the most important thing
29:31
Speaker 2: especially for practitioners to potentially even get license in these methods.
29:37
Speaker 2: Is the Will of Self Forgiveness dot com. It only
29:41
Speaker 2: has a dash in there with self forgiveness. So Wheel
29:45
Speaker 2: of Self Dash Forgiveness dot com will take you to
29:51
Speaker 2: Right now, you can download a cheat sheet of the
29:53
Speaker 2: Wheel of Self Forgiveness and on as soon as the
29:56
Speaker 2: book comes out, that website will be taking you to
30:00
Speaker 2: directly there. In fact, when you get the cheat sheet,
30:03
Speaker 2: we'll be putting your name on a list to receive
30:05
Speaker 2: information about when the book's available and be part of
30:08
Speaker 2: our book launch to get this out there to so
30:11
Speaker 2: many people who there's just an epidemic of self criticism
30:16
Speaker 2: and we have a way out.
30:18
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right. We'll have all this linked up
30:21
Speaker 1: here at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist
30:23
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Sean, thank you so much, aspiring appreciate it.
30:30
Speaker 1: Thank you guys, all right, touch bye bye everyone,