Latest / Dadical / 3. Unexpected Fatherhood: Becoming a Dad Before You're Ready | Clayton Bowen

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3. Unexpected Fatherhood: Becoming a Dad Before You're Ready | Clayton Bowen · Dadical

• Seth Stoker: In many instances, fatherhood is well planned. You meet somebody, you fall in love, you get married, and you have kids. Sometimes it doesn't exactly work out that way. Today's guest has that story, and the way he responded to that scenario is one of the coolest stories I've heard so far in these conversations. Clayton Bowen is right in the thick of it. He's got three kids, ages five and under. And one of the most important things that he wants his kids to take with them is to make sure they know how much he loves them and that they can feel that love for the rest of his life. Clayton's got a great story and I think there's a lot we can learn from it. Here's Clayton. Clayton, welcome to the Dadical Podcast. Really excited to talk to Clayton today because the first two people that I've talked to on the on these episodes have been empty nesters. These are people who are at the very end of their fatherhood experience. I shouldn't say the very end. They got plenty of life left to live. Clayton Bowen: What do you like? Seth Stoker: But at the same time, their kids are grown and you're in a completely different situation. So why don't you introduce us to your family, give us some background, and we'll go from there. Clayton Bowen: Awesome Seth. Man, super, super excited to chat with you. Yeah, you you hit the deal in the head. We are completely opposite ends of that. we have me and my wife, we have we have three kids. We have a our daughter, our oldest is five years old, our middle, we have another daughter who is three. And as of July twenty ninth, our youngest, our son, is two. So we are at home. with a five year old, a three year old, a two year old, and a golden retriever. So yeah, it's it's fun. It's that's our little zoo, but we're here outside of Houston, Texas, in the Richmond Rosenberg area. have been here for almost two years now and we're you we're we're loving life here in Texas and the heat and and all of our our fun activities here at the house Seth Stoker: Nice. So let's start from the beginning, Clayton. I mean, you're a new parent, but tell me about your parents. Tell me about your dad. Clayton Bowen: Yeah, of course. I'd love to. still very close with with my parents. Both of my parents are are still together. I grew up about forty five minutes southwest of here in a small Texas town called Eagle Lake. my parents still still live there. That's where where we grew up. my dad was a big part of my life growing up. a little bit about him. So he, you know, very local, grew up there. Him and my my mom married out of high school. and have stayed in Eagle Lake basically the whole time. goose hunting and and and duck hunting and bird hunting it's a big thing in in Eagle Lake. and so my dad worked at the the one hunting goods store and sporting goods store in town for forever. He's recently retired as he likes to say, but not really retired. but he's been there forever. so he's very well known. Everyone who came through Eagle Lake stopped there. either stopped there at Dairy Queen was probably the only two stops that anybody makes, which they have a Buckies now. So that's that's stop number three. But growing up, it you know, I I was a big part of of being there with him and and seeing him as as a big part of the community and and people knowing him and you know, couldn't go anywhere without someone saying hi to my dad who had met him before. So yeah, my dad was super involved in our childhood, coached our little league team, was on the school board. super president there and and it's it's been a cool transition to see him step into a role of grandfather now and and be involved with our kids too. So yeah, he was he was a huge influence on me growing up. Seth Stoker: So you said well known in the community. what was his reputation? Clayton Bowen: he was another guy with the mustache who worked there, so yeah, he he he everyone joked it was a guy with shorts on and a mustache. Everyone knew knew Wayne, was his name. Seth Stoker: Sorry, I just I I I have to ask, is your dad Tom Sellick? Okay. Clayton Bowen: Yeah. No, no. He Tom said I think's got a lot more hair on the top of his head than my dad. So yeah. Seth Stoker: Hey. Clayton Bowen: maybe maybe the same amount of Hawaiian shirts, I don't know. But but there you go. but yeah, every everyone who came into town, stopped at Johnny's was the name of the sporting good store, knew my dad, super friendly, super nice, his reputation is the guy who would always talk to you, who would always strike up a conversation, and really friendly. I mean you couldn't go anywhere without someone who had met my dad before. or we'd be somewhere and the running joke was dad's gonna see somebody he knows. We'd be at the airport on our way to Mexico for vacation, or in a random gas station on the way to a long road trip to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and he sees somebody he knows. It's just constant. So so yeah, he that was his reputation. The the nice guy that everybody knew. Seth Stoker: Yeah, it reminds me of my dad a little bit because we would go on road trips and things like that. Like we went to the Grand Canyon and he'd go into the gas station and and the joke would always be he comes out and we're like, all right, where are they from? What Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: how many kids do they have? Because he would strike up a conversation with everybody and get to he made friends wherever he wherever he goes. So Clayton Bowen: Yeah, I love it. I love it. There's never a quick trip to like the grocery store or the gas station or anything like that. No. Seth Stoker: No. Okay, so so your dad had a pretty good reputation in the community. He Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: was very involved in your life, a coach, things like that. Tell me about what you learned from your dad. Clayton Bowen: Well, I I learned you know, a a few different things from him. one just kinda off the bat that I saw even before I got into to fatherhood, was just, you know, kindness goes a long way. You know, something we just kinda talked about. Like kindness goes a long way. It sticks with people. It's it's you know, people will remember the people who are kind to them. yeah. Seth Stoker: I'm gonna pause you. How did he teach you that? Because I'm I'm sure it wasn't just him telling you that. How did he teach you that? Clayton Bowen: Yeah, it really yeah, it it's it wasn't a lot of that. It wasn't a sit down and him saying, you know, hey, Clayton, you gotta be kind to people. Yeah, it was just by example and just being around him and seeing seeing his interactions. You know, I I started helping out at the store when I was like twelve or thirteen. and you already kind of knew that, you know, people like your dad, you go to like you said, you go to a little league game and people are coming by and saying hi and shaking hands and laughing with him. But when you see him in his day to day, And it's not one of those situations where like I'm gonna sit down and tell you you need to be kind. You just see that through his interactions with people and how he makes a point when somebody would come in the store to say, Hey, hi, how you doing? would sit and talk with them, even he would joke, it would be like the local beauty shop, but for guys, like some guys would come in there and just talk and talk and talk and you know, he'd be there to listen and laugh and and and you just see those interactions with people. and that's really what I how I was seeing it is just, you know, how he would go and make a point to to talk to people and and his interactions with them. Seth Stoker: Cool. Okay. What what impact did that have on you? I mean, you see him talking to people and and and being kind. That's cool, but but what did that Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: do for you? Clayton Bowen: I mean it made me want to do that too. I mean it really did I I it it was nice to to know that where where you went people would be happy to see your mom and dad. It wouldn't be like, man, we got an issue with them, you know, we'll walk the other way or so. I I never experienced that growing up. I always thought like, you know, hey, people are gonna remember you being kind to them and are gonna wanna be around you. it was a big part like before I switch careers and and went into sales. I was in education for nine years. and it was in that same hometown and and it was a lot of that. It was like, well I I want to give back. I I saw my parents being kind and and nice to people. I think this is a great opportunity for the to do that and and give back. And so it really kind of shaped a lot of the decisions I made as for careers and, you know, growing up. Seth Stoker: So you said your parents are are still together. How long have they been married? Clayton Bowen: man, don't make me give you the exact number. It's how old am I? I'm thirty seven, so yeah, thirty gosh. Are they f f Seth Stoker: Long enough. Clayton Bowen: long enough, yeah. Don't get me lying, man. Long enough. Seth Stoker: Well well, f fair enough. I won't make you do math, but I I guess the reason I asked that question is I'm curious what you learned from your dad about being in a relationship and and you interact with your wife and things like that. Clayton Bowen: I I learned a ton. both me and my wife are are fortunate. Both of our our parents are are still together. and so that's just kind of the the I don't the expectation is that your partner is your partner. and when you're in the dating world, when you're, you know, going out there and and meeting and doing things, you know, you you wanna look for somebody who's gonna be that long term partner. so that was a huge part of what I the kind of the expectation that I had going into relationships and and also the with my parents I I I just saw them kind of on the same level of like their kindness to each other. Like they are there for each other, they compliment each other well. you know, we didn't see a lot of friction at the home and and so that was a you know kind of what I was hoping for and what I wanted to going into relationships and and going into marriage is having that partner that compliment each other well and and they're just have fun together too. My parents still have fun together. Seth Stoker: So with that in mind then, how did that influence you? You know, you mentioned that that's what you wanted in a partner. Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: Tell me more about how that influenced you with your wife now. Clayton Bowen: Yeah. so you know it's it's it's kinda interesting how me and my wife got together. I you know, I always had that that feeling and that want of, you know, I wanna have marriage, I wanna have kids. Like that's that's just always something that I've felt internally. Like I I want that. Seth Stoker: Why? Clayton Bowen: And it's just something like I I I saw, you know, my parents together. I I saw the the love with them. I just I just kind of felt that and I was like, you know, I My personality and who I am, I said, Man, I would love to have kids one day. Like I just that just has always kind of felt like an internal thing with me that has always been there that I've wanted that. and I kind of was at the point almost that's before meeting my wife, where you know, I was like, Hey, if it it hadn't happened, if some failed relationships, some things had happened, and I was almost to that point of conceding that, you know, hey Maybe, maybe that's not gonna be me. Maybe I'm not gonna be the husband. Maybe I'm not gonna be the dad. You know, I'll be the cool fun uncle or the because I had a lot of friends who had kids at the time. Like I'll be that guy, like I'll come over and hang out and and we'll have fun. and then just met met my wife. We we met we met online. I joke that she must have had her radius because she's from the Houston area, so she must have had her radius set. really wide that day. I don't know how we Seth Stoker: Yeah. Clayton Bowen: it's just swiped and connected, but we did. and it was kind of a little bit of that moment like I I don't think that's gonna be my fate anymore. I think I've have somebody here that this is gonna be my person and my partner. and this is who we want to have our our whole lives together. It's is with me and her and and we wanna we wanna take that journey. So Seth Stoker: How long did that take to recognize that? Clayton Bowen: that it it didn't take very long. It didn't take very long to recognize that. probably leads a little bit into the next of like, you know, the to when did these journeys start to begin? And that's that's kind of crazy as well. Seth Stoker: Okay, tell us about it. Clayton Bowen: So we we started dating in in twenty nineteen. and I don't know, Seth, if you remember what was happening into twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, but there was this this little thing called COVID that that hit. So we we'd been dating a bit and COVID hit and we were both teachers at the time. We we joked that that's was the longest spring break ever. We were we were seriously, we're we went on a trip to Galveston, we're on spring break and I can remember us both. getting messages from our respective school that we were working at, like, we're not going back on Monday. And then now is it your turn? Okay, nope, not going back on Monday. and we joked that at about that time, Ashley, my wife, she she moved in. I had a home in Eagle Lake just by myself, had a house there. and she she moved in and just never left. She's been there the entire time. Okay. Yeah. Seth Stoker: I can't get rid of her. No, so so let's let let's dig into that a little deeper. So she Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: she moved in. Was that a product of COVID hitting? Kind of like, well, we y tell me about that. I don't wanna say the story for you. Clayton Bowen: Yeah, yeah. Well it it was that I mean we we'd been having so much fun. We we were dating, we we connected really, really quickly. you know, there there was there was a lot of love there early on. and she was she was living at home at the time. and she was like, you know, I mean we're we're both teachers, we're gonna have to do like online teaching and stuff like this. Like, I mean, let's let's just I'll I'll come and stay and and I mean it It just meshed so well. Like it it's it's crazy. It we we always joke that like you would think something like COVID when you're forced into a place together, like you're gonna you're gonna butt heads. And we never did. Seth, it was it was wild, man. It we we got along, we had so much fun. and man, we we really like it it r did so much for our relationship 'cause we I mean we knew that like okay, we're We're great together. We we are partners. Like this is this is it. Whether we're expecting to or not early on, this is it now. We we're we're there for each other. Seth Stoker: So COVID hits, you guys move in Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: together. When was that? Clayton Bowen: So that was gosh, I don't know when it it w it was after that spring break we we moved in. not too long after that, I don't know if anyone has done math from the beginning, but when I said I had five year old, you could probably imagine so if we start dating in twenty nineteen and a five year old. Not long after that, we we found out that we were we were pregnant with Eloise. So Yeah, all of that happened in a in a pretty short amount of time. Seth Stoker: Okay, let's let's slow down then because I want to dig in there. You're not together very long, Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: and all of a sudden you find out we're gonna be parents. What was that conversation like? Clayton Bowen: my me and Ashley, we we relive it a lot. She's still to this day, she can't believe kind of the the initial reaction. I can remember walking into the bedroom and and she comes out with the pregnancy test and said, you know, hey, we're pregnant. and my first initial reaction reaction set, and I I it's hard to even explain, but I just said, okay. Just calm, cool. I still can't believe how calm and Cool and collected it was, it was just okay. That was that was the first reaction. Seth Stoker: That's amazing, by the way. Clayton Bowen: Ha ha ha. Seth Stoker: But when she comes to you and says that, I I I get the fact that, hey, I I gotta be strong, I gotta show Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: confidence, reassure her, you know. But what's going through your mind? Clayton Bowen: Well, it's it's weird 'cause I I I don't wanna present that I am Mr. Calm, cool, collected and have it all together 'cause I do not at all. but I just think in that moment there there's a couple things you think about. You think about, you know, okay, I'm gonna be a dad, obviously. And then you think about you know, obviously we're we're not married at the time, but I think, okay, and this is gonna be I w we're This is my partner in this journey. We are going to be parents. She's gonna be the mom. I'm gonna be the dad. We're gonna be doing this together. And I just knew, like I told you before, like I've always had that feeling internally that I wanted to be a dad. And that I wanted to have a partner. I wanted to be married. And even though we weren't at the time, I I I just knew that Ashley was the my partner forever. Like I I just knew that. And I just There there was things inside me that just knew that from a very early on. and so that was calming to me, knowing that, you know, hey, they we haven't done the ceremony, there's no ring on the finger yet, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is who I want to be my wife forever. and I also knew deep down that I wanted to be a dad. And so in that moment, those are two things that were coming true. And it was calming, man. It was it was wild. Seth Stoker: How old were you at the time? Clayton Bowen: I was thirty what, thirty two? Thirty one, thirty two, Seth Stoker: 32. Clayton Bowen: yeah. Seth Stoker: So you've got you've got a a a certain level of of freedom in your life. You obviously Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: you and your wife are having fun, and all of a sudden you're like, wow, life's gonna change. Whether you were confident about it or not, life's gonna change. So what did what did that do to you? maybe even your your preparations with your wife? Like how how did your thought process or even you, how did Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: you change? Clayton Bowen: It I mean it it it is crazy because it it is a complete shift. You know, before I met my wife, I was I was living alone. I was pretty self sufficient there at the house with me. It was just me and my dog. I was a teacher, so I you know, I'd have summers off and winter break. I can go and do. even from early on with with dating, Ashley, like we we had to hit up breaks on a lot of things because we had to pull back because of COVID. Like, I mean, we we had to stop going places and doing things. There's only so many, you know, online game nights and stuff that you could do and things like that. so that was already pulling back on some of our our time and adventures and things that we could have done together. and then you add the the level of now now we're gonna be parents and we're also doing this during COVID. Yeah. Seth Stoker: As if your life wasn't disrupted enough with COVID. Clayton Bowen: Exactly. Exactly. You know a lot But you know, we we we had to kind of take a step back and and and take it all in and and basically, you know, f find the the the silver lining to that. You know, people were stopping their lives, Seth and we were starting ours. Like, you know, it wouldn't the conventional way to do it, but I mean it's how we did it and and we were starting our lives and you know, we we we found the positives there. I mean, even even like When 'cause we couldn't have visitors in the hospital and it was our first experience having a kid. So you go into that thinking, my gosh, we wish we had our parents here, we wish we had friends here to come by and do this and that. but very early on my wife was like, Man, I'm glad nobody could come in here. Like, let me let Seth Stoker: Why? Clayton Bowen: me re just because it it was there was enough nurses, I just wanna sleep, I'm tired, like I don't wanna be social right now. But we we're having a kid, like I'm I'm glad nobody could come in. And so it's it's things like that. You you find the good in in kind of that crazy experience. But you're right, man. It it is. It's a a whole different shift. And you you almost feel that immediately when you hold your son or daughter in your hands. Seth Stoker: Tell me more. Clayton Bowen: I mean it's it's it's it's incredible. I mean it's it's it's wild. You you you kind of expect like, hey, obviously things are gonna be different now, you know, I'm there's gonna be people depending on me and and and when I have a child, but it's that that switch it it flips when you you hold like Eloise when I hold her in my arms the first time. I mean you hold this is this is a part of you and and the person you love and and they're gonna be dependent on you and and it's it's a a big shift from it's not us, it's it's them now. That we're we're doing things for them now. And and I don't know, I I I welcome that. I I I really did. It's it it was it was incredible, man. It's it's wild. It's hard to describe it. Someone hadn't Seth Stoker: Yeah. Clayton Bowen: felt it, but to to any new dads or stuff that would maybe watch it, it's it's or listening. It's it's it's incredible guys. Seth Stoker: I think it's an interesting paradox in the sense that life was really easy for you before you had a kid. And and I don't want to make Clayton Bowen: Yeah, what? Seth Stoker: any assumptions. I'm sure you had plenty of challenges, but at the same time, you've got a home, you're you're Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: having fun with your your then girlfriend, you know, not a lot, not a lot of crazy things happening. And then all of a sudden, my goodness, we're gonna be parents, Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: and no doubt, like there's no way around it, life's gonna get harder. Clayton Bowen: yeah. Seth Stoker: And and yet. i i it's just something that you don't feel or don't understand until you become a parent that life is also just about to become so much better. Clayton Bowen: It is the hardest thing that you're ever gonna do. I don't care what your job is, what your which is it is the hardest thing, but it is also the best thing that you ever do. It's it's incredible, man. Seth Stoker: So you find out this news, Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: and obviously you were pretty confident about it. Did you call your dad? Clayton Bowen: yeah, we we had we had everybody over for dinner. We did, you know, dinner with my parents, a dinner with my my wife's parents. So yeah, we call and as a unwed couple that is having Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Clayton Bowen: a kid, you always have this this, you know, nervousness of when I tell somebody what's the reaction gonna be. But man, they everybody was so excited. So th it was, you know, it it it some really cool conversations and and really really special conversations that we had after that because there wasn't any you know, but you guys aren't you know, you you hadn't been together that long. It wasn't any of that. It was full, full support. and I mean I mean that that meant so much to me and Ashley. Seth Stoker: It it's interesting that you say that because this is what's on my mind right now. I I've got I've got a nineteen year old who who lives at home and and is an adult, but it's hard as a dad sometimes not to be critical. In fact, we we've gotten into it a little bit recently because I'll see him doing the way he could he could probably be spending his time more productively and and stuff like that. And you see that. And as a as Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: a dad, you're like, come on, man. Like like you've got you've got all this to do. You've you've got you've got opportunities right out there waiting for you. And I'm sure that your dad finds out that you know finds out that you're gonna be a dad and yet you guys aren't married. Like I'm sure he had some of that too. So tell me more about the conversation that he had with you. Clayton Bowen: Well what's what's funny with him is he he used to joke all this for a long time and and and granted, like I I had a lot of friends who had already had kids. I mean we were you know, I was in my thirties when we when we had Eloise, and so, you know, it's a little bit later. and my dad joked for for a long time that, man, I'm I'm ready to be a grandpa, but I don't want my kids to have kids yet. It's just cause I don't know if he just felt that need to hang on to being the dad for us, but also just wanted to have the fun of being a grandpa. and so when when all this is is happening, I I I really think that, you know, what he knew about, you know, how much I loved Ashley and and the things I had already told him up to that point and, you know, how happy he saw me together. I think and I I truthfully think any of that hesitation of of not being married yet I I really don't know how much that actually came up. Except I probably before you know he may have thought about it, but knowing who he who I was with and who I was gonna be going through that journey through and and with who's gonna be my partner, I I really think that, you know, he he was truly excited and didn't have those feelings. yeah, he him and Ashley get are Super good, super good friend. Like they they all got together very early on. They they were yeah, they they enjoy each other. Like they my my dad adores my wife. and yeah, and I think he saw that how the happiness that that I had and I think he was just ready to jump into grandpa mode. Seth Stoker: So what did that support mean to you? Clayton Bowen: it it was incredible. And it it's like I said, I I'm I I overthink a lot of things and that was definitely something in my mind, like, you know, if I if I bring this up to my parents, you know, I I would hope for their support, but I can also, you know, understand if if they have reservations because of where we were at in our lives and what was going on and all of these different things, but to not feel any of that after that conversation, I mean, it's it it was so reassuring and I I think what it what it did too is it it kind of reassured how people saw us too. I don't know if that Seth Stoker: Hmm. Clayton Bowen: sounds weird, so that's the the way I'm saying it, but like how people perceived, you know, me and Ashley and in our relationship, you know, if if everyone would have been a little bit hesitant and and would have voiced some reservations either privately or or publicly to us. I think it would have been a lot different experience, but I think people saw us together and saw our love and and really I think everyone was just excited and and ready. Seth Stoker: Yeah. So you've got a great support system around you, sounds like your wife does too. And Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: yet during COVID, you go to the hospital and nobody can nobody can be there with you. Now you you mentioned that experience, and I'll I'll tell you like for for me, going through challenging scenarios like that with with your spouse has an incredible impact on the relationship. And my wife in 2019 was diagnosed with breast cancer. And we went through some hard years after that. going through multiple surgeries, chemotherapy, all all sorts of things. And There's something about going through these challenges together that I sure, some some people struggle with that. Like I I get that some people have challenges in in their relationships in that regard, but if you really lean into each other and and and take care of each other and and just put the others well-being and and the others care and everything like that above your own interests, there's a bond that's created in that relationship that's that's unbelievable. And so it sounds like I imagine, and I'm probably leading the witness here a little bit, but I would love to understand the impact that going through that with your wife so early on, Clayton Bowen: Mm. Seth Stoker: just you two in the hospital, no visitors, having to kind of figure that out on your own. What what was that like? Clayton Bowen: man, it's it it's a lot. And and first it's said thank you incredibly for sharing. You're you're exactly right. You when you go through those those those massive things as a couple, I mean it's it's so impactful. and and I again thank you for sharing about that. That's that's huge set. I'm I'm glad you guys were got through that together. I mean that's that's incredible, man. but yeah, you're you're exactly right. I mean our our whole relationship we you know we for me and Ashley it's been it's just been kind of the the next thing the the big up and down shifts. Like it we've had so many big up and downs like that. you talk about you know the b the birth of our first child during COVID, no visitors. So you experience that. I mean I was allowed to go to one doctor visit during that up until Seth Stoker: Wow. Clayton Bowen: we're actually having her on on on the day on the day of I went to one ultrasound when she was still just like a smudge on the screen. Every other ultrasound I saw fall saw through like a FaceTime video in the parking lot. So so you miss out on that. You know, you miss out on people being there. I I will say the flip side of that, I told you, you know, we have three kids. You know, I I miss some of those initial experiences. But I got to experience those again with with our our the birth of our our second daughter and then with our son. So I I don't like to think of, you know, I I missed out on a lot of things. I just experienced them at different times. but yeah, you're right. So we we we have we have Eloise during during COVID. that's huge. We go through so it's basically just me and Ashley doing that together. I mean we've got support from family that can start to come by then and but you still have to be very hesitant. Everybody's wearing masks or you did you cough yesterday, you can't come till three weeks from now, like all of these different things. So that's a struggle. and then like I said it's just been so many ups and downs. I could share with you a few more of some of those extremes that me and Ashley have dealt together. that next month, February if it's Valentine, February fourteenth, twenty twenty one, a big freeze came through Texas and Houston, Dallas, like everybody affected. We had Pipes break. so we were displaced out of our home for God, almost I want to say like six months during repairs. So Ashley took took Eloise to her parents for most of the time 'cause they had electricity and things like that. And and I was still working, so I would back home and so there was a lot of, you know, FaceTime good nights to your one month old. And so I you I miss I feel like I miss months of that and we're you know, having to guide the ship through parenting displaced with no home. so we we get through that. we get we get married in spring of twenty two. then I left teaching just for the family we needed to go through. So there's a career change, there's a marriage, a career change, a freeze, a covet. We have we have Imogen, our second daughter. and then we a little bit of a surprise, then we get pregnant with with Parker. We have our third, so they're fourteen months apart. So through that time we've had, you know, other career shifts and and surgeries and, you know, buying and selling a house. And so it, you know, we we may on paper, the our years together may not be that long, but it's been one, it seems like, the next thing and the next experience and the next experience. And you're right. I mean it it grows you. As a as a couple, I mean, we are so strong as a couple through all of those things. I mean, it's hard, man. It we we dealt with a lot of hard stuff. and we came out of it together. Now, unscathed, I will not confess that. We you know, there we have bumps and bruises and cuts and scrapes. but you go through it together and it bonds you. because I mean that's again, that's your partner and that's how I see it. That's how I see it through all of that is we're We're partnering through these things together. Seth Stoker: Well, what I love about your experience, Clayton, and and I think this is you're not the only person to ever find yourself in that scenario, right? And as men, it's our responsibility to step up and to lead and and and give that confidence in in your partner and and also take responsibility. And and I think your experience is such a good example of that, of you being willing to step up and And say even though you might have been a little scared, maybe you weren't. I don't know. It sounds like you were pretty confident, but Clayton Bowen: Mm. Seth Stoker: but regardless, like being willing to step up and say, Okay, I I'm gonna be with you through this and and we're just gonna go tackle it together. I Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: I I also can imagine the confidence that and that instills in Ashley. And you guys being able to to get through that. So I I I think that's really cool. I think it's a great example for young men who find themselves in a similar scenario. Like, yeah, it's scary. But you know what? On the other side of all that scary and hard is some incredible opportunities for growth and incredible opportunities to experience joy and love for these kids and for your spouse that you never would have been able to experience otherwise. And it takes you getting outside of your comfort zone or what's easy. To be able to experience those things. Clayton Bowen: man, w you're exactly right. I mean, I I I lived through some of the easy times. I was, you know, a single guy with an easy job, but you know, I don't I don't think that was living. Knowing what I know now and the experiences I've had now, I'm like, that was just that that wasn't it, man. That that wasn't fulfilling. You know, you you we go through all these experiences and I think that's what life's about, man. Like it it the ups and downs and th what's happening in between those and You know, the the moments that that come out of all of that, I mean, that's that's what's I mean, that's what makes it worth worthwhile. and and I'll say this too, one you know, we we've we went through all of this as as a couple and as a family. And and it's and it's really tough. If if I could go back and kind of say one one thing to anybody who's, you know, stepping into the fatherhood role to to do any of that or is, you know, is gonna go through any of that. 'Cause something I have to tell myself too is make sure that you're also open during all of that, man. Like be open. Seth Stoker: What do you mean? Clayton Bowen: Like to you especially with your your spouse, I mean, be open, like have conversations. Man, don't like if you're going through it and we were we we were going through it a lot of times. talk to each other, you know, express what's going on. Don't, you know, be open to each other. And I I mean even outside of your your marriage, I mean, if you've got, you know, a father figure in your life or friends there, man, talk about it. They they may be going through some stuff too and and you guys can, you know, share that together. But, you know, I I think that's a big part of it and that's what's helped and something that we have to me and my wife still work on getting back to is, you know, be open during all these things. Seth Stoker: I think that's so key. I think communication is obviously such a critical component of a successful marriage relationship. Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: And the cool thing about that is, is if you can model that for your kids, it also shows them and teaches them the importance of that as well. And if your kids see you communicating and being open and sharing, you know. fears or even why you're confident and and working through problems and conflict resolution and things like that, like as they see you work through that, that enables them to be able to do that in their relationships as well. Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Yeah. I I think I think you're right. And it's you know, we we're we're dealing with some things right now with our with our five year old and and kind of the the running thing is hey, you know, sh she gets upset about something or, you know, overly happy or overly excited or overly upset and it's just like, Hey, I've got big feelings and it's like it's okay to have the big feelings. Like let's talk through the big feelings. Why do you feel these big feelings? Like what is the big feelings making you do? Like and and so yeah, you you You want them to feel like they can be open and express that and then the best way to do that is an example of yourself and and where they can see you doing that as well. Seth Stoker: So l let's transition then 'cause I think that's a good point for us to talk about what fatherhood looks for le looks like for you now. Clayton Bowen: Mm. It's it's it's crazy here, man. It's it's awesome. It's it's it's non stop. I it it's funny, I I you you made a post recently like showing explicit the good dad and the intentional dad. And the good dad is like, Hey, we're just getting through it. I'm like, Seth man, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to push back on you a little bit right here. We gotta told you we a five year old, three year old, a two year old. There's some days that we're just getting through it, man. But man, it's it's it's amazing. I mean, it's it's it's crazy, it's chaotic, it's it's fun, it's it's love, it's up, it's down, it's it's everything. And like I said, that it's so fulfilling because you get to see all these emotions and you get to experience it all together and you grow as a family and and we're at the point now where our kids are, you know There every every day there's more personality. You're I mean, it's you know, they're they're learning new things every day. Everything is an exploration. everything is we we have to understand this and we have to understand that. And I'm trying to do this, I'm learning this. And it's incredible, man. You you get to kind of see things through the way that your kids see in their eyes and the wonderment of it. And it makes you appreciate a lot of things around you. Seth Stoker: You know, it's interesting about the you mentioned the the post that I made. And you know what? I totally appreciate where you're coming from. Where yeah, five, three, and two, of course you're in survival mode. And I don't think there's such a thing as a dad that's always intentional all the time and things like that. I think it's important to remember though to find those opportunities to be intentional because Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: I think if you just go through like just survive fatherhood and and and that's it, you'll get to the end of it and look back and say, Dang, I could had so much more of an impact. Or Clayton Bowen: Dude. Yeah. Seth Stoker: and and I I think as as parents in general, all of us are gonna be look back and be like, man, I wish I had done that better. Because that's life, right? Like there's Clayton Bowen: Right. Seth Stoker: no way to get around it. But at the same time, what an incredible opportunity we have to use this influence and this role that we have to really shape incredible human beings, you know, and that's Clayton Bowen: man. Seth Stoker: what we have the chance to do. And so how. Understanding that at times you are in survival mode, what what do you feel like you are intentional about? Clayton Bowen: think I I think I intentionally and I and I and I tell my wife this, I was like, I just want like at the end of the day I just want people happy. Like I I I want there to be happiness here. Like there there's there's gonna be tough times, there's gonna be crying, you know, the their kids, you know, they're gonna they're gonna struggle. But I I want them to come into to the house and be and be happy and and have fun and learn and do all these things and explore. you know, I don't I don't want to I I don't want to take away from that just to be like, hey, you know, it's we're we're supposed to be having dinner at 5 30 and now it's 6 30 and guys are still playing in the dirt outside. Like I don't I I want them to be in a place where they can have fun and have enjoyment and explore. because it's it's incredible to to see them do that. And and and I also want them just Just to feel like all the the love here. The love between me and my wife. The love between me and the kids. The love between the brothers and the sister, then the sister and the brother. Like I want everyone to just feel that. and and yeah, I mean it's like I said, you it's every day is is wild and different, but if if we can, you know, lay our head down at night and and feel that. You know, before somebody wakes up at two AM and then you have to refill it again and then you go back Seth Stoker: Yep. Clayton Bowen: to but no, it's that that's that's what I hope for here, man. Seth Stoker: So how do you balance that? You're a teacher, right? by well, at least your background was in teaching. Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: And you have to balance. Yes, I want them to be happy. I I I I want them to have enjoyment and and all that good stuff. But at the same time, you gotta teach. And sometimes no is an important teacher, right? Or Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: or even rocking the boat and and ma they have to do things they don't want to do sometimes. And and we're gonna go places even when you're still playing in the dirt, but we gotta go do something else, you know, and Clayton Bowen: Well we gotta go do something. Yeah. Seth Stoker: Exactly, and and and you've got to kind of be the bad guy at times. So how do you balance that when you want them yes, I want them to feel joy and and have Clayton Bowen: Right. Seth Stoker: fun and all that stuff, but I also do need to teach them. Clayton Bowen: Yeah. And man, that's that's an really good question 'cause I don't think anybody has that answered when they start. Man, it's it's yeah, that's that's something that that is learned. I mean you can it it's easy to, you know, as a as a dad or as like my father to be like, you know, these are all the good things, this is how we do the fun stuff, this is what we did for that, it was so much fun. But no one really gives you the the playbook on well when it's time to have to say no or there needs to be some disciplining or something like no one gives you that that playbook. And so that's I mean, that's something that we're still, you know, still figuring out because we're we're on kind of a a rotation. again, a five, a three year and a two year old. They they go through these different cycles. You know, one week I may be the the coolest person in the world. The next week mom's the coolest person in the world. And I won't tell you the kind of person I am at that week. You know, it's like, yeah, it's it's it's these these constant cycles. So I think for me, and this is something I did a lot as a teacher too, is is just patience. It's huge. Having patience, understanding that, you know, you're gonna have to say no, but that no may not register the first time, the second time, third time. Staying patient and and talking through it. And and there's a lot of times where me and my wife have to lean on each other for some of that. Like for saying no, like, hey, maybe I'm not the cool guy this week, but I'm trying to say no. And if it you know, if it doesn't click with one of the three and it has to be mom that says it, like, we're a team and we're gonna do it together. So that's great. And I can pick up somewhere else that, you know, that that she may need me. So I think that's it. I think it's patience in and leaning on each other to to, you know, get that get that no to stick. Seth Stoker: So how do you and your wife balance those responsibilities of of discipline and also, you know, you talked about being the good guy and the bad guy. How Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: do you guys communicate about those roles and responsibilities and how do you guys execute execute those in practice? Clayton Bowen: Well, I think for a long time, I think what we're trying to get back to, Sith as parents, is is taking time to like talk through a lot more. not so much in the moment because like I say, y we we've got small kids. We've been going through a lot. There's been a lot of times that we have to be really reactionary to things going on. You know, we we you could be having a a little mini meltdown by one of the three and you're not gonna run and you know what chapter was that in that book. I need to stop and read that. Like it's we we kind of understand each other's personalities and kind of are just we'll lean on that. But I think what we're getting to now is taking more time to talk through like, hey, what worked? What do you think we should do different? I notice, you know, I noticed you know Eloise was doing this and this is how I kind of feel that we need to do and okay, but Imogen was doing this, so we need to, you know, talk through how she was doing that. So As they're getting older, we're having to kind of sit down and talk through the situations a lot more. And okay, well, we did this that time. This was how the result that we got. Is this a result that we wanted, or is there a way that we can change this? Or so it's it's a lot of that. It's a lot of us knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses, and then also as they're getting older, as they're developing these different feelings and emotions and going through these different things, taking time to talk about. How we can handle things together. Seth Stoker: Another great example of why communication is so important both Clayton Bowen: No, man. Seth Stoker: in sure in a marriage, but also between father and mother to figure out all right, how you've got to be strategic, right? You've got to talk about how we're going to put these things in practice. What do we want to teach our kids and how do we wanna teach them and who do we wanna be as parents And how are we going to go about all of these things? Because it can be really challenging to be on the same page. And if your kids know that you're not on the same page, they will take advantage of that like crazy. Clayton Bowen: they see it the minute it ha that's this not the minute, the second, the millisecond it happened. They're like, they're off. We're in. This is our end. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So what do you want to teach your kids? Clayton Bowen: I I I do want them to to understand kindness. Like I I want them to to understand that, you know, kindness does go a long way with people. Seth Stoker: Why? Clayton Bowen: Well, I I think it's something that we all need. I think the the the world needs it, not to get on a big huge soapbox, but I I I think kindness goes a long way. I think when, you know, when they're in the world, when they're experiencing things, and maybe we're not there as they grow up and and they're going kind of on their in their own routes and their own ways. you know, I I think if they have some of that kindness in their heart. when they go into situations, I I think it's just it it it's it's gonna take them it's gonna take them far. so I think kindness is something I that that I hope that, you know, I instill in them. and and and I I just I want them to understand like l the love that we have for them. And I hope the love that they have for each other as siblings, the love that we don't us as parents that we give to our three kids, I hope they feel that and they understand that. and they carry that into wherever they go in the world, whoever they're with, you know, wherever they're doing, just to have love and and passion for each other. Seth Stoker: What do you think that does for them to know your love for them? Clayton Bowen: I I think it's something that will be with them even if we're not with them. So, I mean that's it's kind of a big big concept, but I think if if if you feel that love from your parents, it's it's something that is always gonna be there and and never gonna leave. And I I felt that for my parents, I feel that. from my wife. I feel that for my wife. I feel that for my kids. and I know it's, you know, it's that that really, you know, that warm fuzzy inside you. And and I want them to feel that. I I want them to know that that's there. Seth Stoker: So you mentioned that your you felt the love of your parents. How did that impact you? Clayton Bowen: I I think I you know, as as I grew up and I started off on, you know, the this journey into adulthood and and fatherhood and as a husband, I think that's something knowing that that love was there is something that I can now like I have I I still lean on my parents. Like I still will call them and talk to them of my mom and my dad, you know if something comes up. So it's it's still something that I I lean on and and I appreciate with them. And it I also think too it's it's helped them be amazing grandparents too. Cause this is just another generation of of that love. Seth Stoker: Let's talk about fatherhood in the sense of what your expectations were and then what it actually felt like. How did those differ? Clayton Bowen: I will say expectation was I mean I I knew it was gonna be great. I you can't really fathom how much work it is, so you can't you can't explain to somebody, you know, how much how much work it takes. how much, you know, how little sleep you're gonna get. there there was that expectation was never set. You could say, Hey, you're not gonna sleep much, but that it doesn't even scratch the surface. So, Man, it's you know, that's going into it, you just you know, hey, it's gonna be yeah, it'll it'll be tough, but yeah, it's gonna be, you know, it's great, you're gonna be a dad, you can do you could just be the cool dad and all this stuff. Yeah. I love being the cool dad, but it takes a lot of work to be that dad. Seth Stoker: you know, you mentioned how much work it is as a parent. And I think especially in your situation right now, where you've got three kids, five and younger, you're in the thick of it for sure. Clayton Bowen: Mm. Seth Stoker: And I think at that point it can be really, really challenging. As someone who has kids now kinda on the other side of that, one of the most incredible pieces of fatherhood is being able to watch somebody go from, you know, this tiny child that can't even do anything for themselves. They're completely helpless. And watch them learn and grow and develop and develop their own personalities and develop Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: their own skills that are completely different from their brother or sister or whatever, and and have these strengths and weaknesses and be able to see them go from you know this this tiny helpless being to you know a smart, funny, athletic, whatever, whatever the case may be, loving, kind. person and we are so selfish naturally, right? Like I want you you mentioned you talked about you know life before you had kids. Same same for me. Like I I Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: wanted what made me happy in the moment and and what was fun and all that stuff. And all of a sudden you get thrown into all this responsibility. And I think the thing I I would just love for new dads or or prospective dads or kids kids who are are becoming adults and and contemplating whether or not they want to be dads, I want them to understand that the blessing of being able to see this incredible thing that you made Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: grow and achieve and learn and all those things, there is nothing like it. And on top of that, what it does for you and what it does to you is maybe even more significant. And I would be nowhere near, and I'm not perfect by any means, but I would be nowhere near who I am today without that opportunity to a learn to live with a spouse, learn to live with my Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: wife. And it requires an incredible amount of unselfishness and communication and things like that to be able to figure that out. And then you drop a kid in the mix. And you're not sleeping, you're going Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: a million different directions and things like that. And yet somehow you get out to the other side of it and you're like, Man, how could I not have done this? And I think we're so caught up in our own self-interest naturally, innately, that we people lose sight of that. And I think if more people would be willing to take that on. It would be incredible how much happier people would be across the board, in my opinion. Clayton Bowen: I I I completely agree with with everything. I mean you you're right. I you know, I thought I had it all, you know, I thought I I had it figured out, single guy, house of the self, myself, like whatever. man, it that that's it's nothing. That that's nothing. And you're right, you you inherently there's there's some selfishness there. But when you step into that role as a husband, a provider, a dad, and that shift happens, I mean it's It it's it's a lot, but you're right. I think the the world would be a better place if people took on that responsibility. It it shifts your mindset one one hundred percent. Like it it shifts your priorities. You know, I would not be any of the person I am today had it not been for my wife and kids. they I owe them everything. All all the the good that I have now is it's is all in direct relation to doing that with them. You know, I I don't know where I would be without them. I I wouldn't be the kind of man I am. You know, I we we talked about having a father figure and and that's incredible and that's great. And and I learned so much from my dad, but when you take on the responsibility yourself, I I mean, it it it r it shapes you, like you said. I mean, you're I'm a completely different person now than I was before. you know, your your priorities are different. your your life is different and and it's amazing, man. It's it's just awesome. Seth Stoker: And it it you've become someone that you never could have become without choosing that hard thing. And I I recognize you guys were kind of it was thrust upon you in some ways, right? But but at the Clayton Bowen: Ha ha ha. Seth Stoker: same time, you chose in that moment to say, yeah, we're doing this. And I just think the impact that that has on you is so underestimated. So let's fast forward then. You Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: you know, you you're a young dad now, but your kids are gonna get older, you're gonna get older. What do you want your legacy to be? Like when your kids are on the podcast and they're talking about you, what what are they gonna say about Clayton? Clayton Bowen: Man, I don't know. And and I I have I've had so much difficulty thinking of the the the legacy question 'cause it it it comes up. I I it it comes up all the time. Everybody, you know, what do you what do you want your legacy to be? What the legacy of this, the legacy that it's it's tough, man. Obviously, you know, if you ask somebody, you know, if you'd asked me seven years ago before the wife and kids and everything My legacy would be totally different. It would be, you know, something selfish. You know, I I hope to be, you know, super successful. Well, I was a teacher, so as as successful as a teacher as you can be, you know, I create some amazing masterpiece that's hanging in a a a gallery somewhere ready to sell for tens of thousands of dollars just to line up the next one. you know, bigger, cooler house with all this stuff. and now as a husband and a dad, you ask, you know, what the legacy, what do you, you know, what do you want them to say about you? I I don't know, man. I I I really don't know because now that my priority is my wife and kids and who they are and and what they do. And I I what I want for them is I want them to be able to say, you know, I was so happy and loved by my mom and dad. Like that's that's that's the most important thing to me. I don't like I don't feel like I want their legacy to be, you know, hey, I'm an artist and I want my my daughter to be an artist and I want her to do great because, you know, I didn't sell that masterpiece and I want her to sell that masterpiece. Or, you know, hey, I I never started that that that game. I want my son to be the the starter. I want him to get go D one or I want You know, I want my daughter to do this because I didn't get the chance to do that and I want them don't you know I don't want any of that. I I just want them happy and loved and I want them I I just want them to be able to feel that, man. Seth Stoker: I think that's incredible. I I I think as as a dad, you are going to ha leave a legacy one way or another. Like you don't have a choice, right? And so, Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: in in fact, you are going to impact future generations, not just your kids, but your kids' kids and so on. And so you've got a you've got a choice to make. We all have a choice to make. Are we going to lean in and leave a Clayton Bowen: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: leg legacy for good that can have an amazing impact on future generations? Or some dads choose the opposite, right? Some dads, some dads decide maybe not to take the challenge the the that you decided to take on Clayton or to maybe just be super reactive and not involved and and and stay Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Seth Stoker: selfish and worry about themselves. And and you know what? That's gonna have a negative impact upon generations too. But I think my my hope is that more and more young men understand and take on this responsibility, understanding that yeah, it's gonna change you and it's gonna change your life and it's gonna be really hard. But at the same time, there is nothing more important that you could do. And the person who benefits the most from it, regardless of your legacy, is you. Clayton Bowen: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's an amazing point. So you're and you're you're exactly right. I hope so, man. I I hope. I I hope people don't shy. I hope young dads don't shy away from it if if you have the opportunity. Jump in with both feet and just it's it's incredible, man. It's it like I said, it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, but it is the best thing that you're ever gonna do. Seth Stoker: So what's your what's your parting parting advice or parting wisdom for for the dadicle audience here? Clayton Bowen: if if you ever think you're stressed out and don't have enough free time in the day, call our house between four thirty and seven thirty Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha. Clayton Bowen: at night and you're like, No, we got plenty of time, we're good. so yeah, keep my number and just call me during that time and the pure craziness of getting home from daycare between then dinner time and bedtime. no man, I my my parting words were it just like I said, just just jump in. It's it's the best thing ever. mean being being a husband and dad is is it's the best thing that you're ever gonna do. so jump in, it's gonna be it's gonna be hectic, it's gonna be crazy. but it's it's it's so rewarding and such a big part of it is being there through all of it. So if I could say one thing like, you know, there there's there's things that can wait. Be there with your kids and and your wife. Be in those moments together. and and just it just enjoy enjoy the ride, man. Cause it's it's it's the best thing in the world. Seth Stoker: Well, Clayton, thank you very much. Appreciate you joining us today. Clayton Bowen: Thanks, Seth. Seth Stoker: Huge shout out to Clayton for joining the podcast today. The main thing that I'm taking away from this conversation is that becoming a father is not a decision that's going to make your life easier. That being said, it is the most important decision you will ever make. making the hard choice sometimes is exactly what we need to do in order to grow and truly live the life that we want to live. if you're on the fence about fatherhood or in the thick of it wondering if it's worth it, I hope this conversation helped. That being said, if you know a dad with a story worth telling, I would love to talk to him. Please help me get in contact with them. you can reach out at dadiclepodcast.com, submit a contact form, and I'd love to chat with them. new episodes will be dropping every Wednesday, so stay tuned. And as always, don't sleepwalk through fatherhood. Be daddy.