Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / S.G. Goodman

Transcript

S.G. Goodman · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:08
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to
0:14
Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
0:17
Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show
0:19
Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
0:23
Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right
0:28
Speaker 1: enjoyed the episode. On her debut album, Old Time Feeling,
0:33
Speaker 1: SG Goodman turns traditional Southern storytelling on its head with
0:37
Speaker 1: songs that present a deeper, more complex look at life
0:40
Speaker 1: below the Mason Dixon Line. That's if it Ain't Me Babe,
0:46
Speaker 1: from s G. Goodman's debut album, which was co produced
0:49
Speaker 1: by My Morning Jackets Jim James. Sgs songs are filled
0:54
Speaker 1: with purpose. As a queer person who lives with mental illness,
0:58
Speaker 1: she often sings about the social and political change she
1:01
Speaker 1: wants to see happen in the South. In this conversation
1:05
Speaker 1: with Bruce Headlam, SG performs a few songs off her
1:08
Speaker 1: debut album from her home in Murray, Kentucky. She also
1:11
Speaker 1: talks about writing a breakup song that just happens to
1:13
Speaker 1: resonate with the ongoing social justice demonstrations happening all over
1:18
Speaker 1: the country today. This is broken record liner notes for
1:25
Speaker 1: the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Hedlam's conversation
1:33
Speaker 1: with S. G. Goodman. She starts things off with the
1:36
Speaker 1: performance of the song space and Time. That was beautiful.
1:43
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you. That's the first song
1:46
Speaker 1: on your new album, Yes, which is Old Time Feeling.
1:50
Speaker 1: Can you tell me just a little bit about the
1:52
Speaker 1: writing of that song. Oh yeah, So this song, you
1:56
Speaker 1: know a lot of people think of it is general
2:00
Speaker 1: love song, and and I don't mind that at all.
2:04
Speaker 1: You know, artists really aren't in control of how people
2:08
Speaker 1: interpret their work. But that really wasn't I guess you
2:12
Speaker 1: could say it was a love love song in a
2:15
Speaker 1: particular way, but that was at a written in a
2:19
Speaker 1: particular time in my life where I was struggling with
2:22
Speaker 1: mental health. And you know, I'm not shy about talking
2:26
Speaker 1: about my struggle with suicide. And you know I have
2:30
Speaker 1: a mental condition called obsessive compulsive disorder, which intensifies a
2:35
Speaker 1: lot of those things when they begin to happen. And
2:40
Speaker 1: so that was at a time in my life when
2:42
Speaker 1: I really was in a way writing a good bye letter.
2:47
Speaker 1: But you know, here I am singing it today, so
2:50
Speaker 1: I guess you know, it had a different purpose. Hmm.
2:55
Speaker 1: What was going on at that point in your life.
2:58
Speaker 1: Were there situations that exacerbated your condition or was it
3:02
Speaker 1: just a result of the things you deal with every day. Well,
3:08
Speaker 1: you know, a mixture of both of those. I would say,
3:12
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like there's a lot of statistics
3:17
Speaker 1: against me with obsessive compulsive disorder, but also as a
3:21
Speaker 1: queer person from the South. And you know, in the
3:25
Speaker 1: same way that artists can't control how their work is interpreted,
3:30
Speaker 1: people can't control how other people take certain news about
3:35
Speaker 1: their loved ones or friends or community members. So I
3:39
Speaker 1: would say at that point in my life, I had
3:42
Speaker 1: been out for about six years, but certain people close
3:48
Speaker 1: to me were, you know, not able to really give
3:53
Speaker 1: the kind of love I felt I needed. So that
3:58
Speaker 1: I feel like, even though I've found a lot of
4:01
Speaker 1: peace and healing in those things, is still ways on
4:05
Speaker 1: a person. And unfortunately, that was just a time where
4:10
Speaker 1: that those particular situations were really intense for me and
4:16
Speaker 1: you know, struggling with a sense of abandonment and things
4:20
Speaker 1: like that, which I think is, you know, my story's
4:22
Speaker 1: not like super unique. A lot of people experience that,
4:28
Speaker 1: and I've just decided not to be quiet about it.
4:32
Speaker 1: So when you play that song now the way you
4:35
Speaker 1: just did, what's that like for you? Does it take
4:37
Speaker 1: you back to that time or is it does it
4:40
Speaker 1: help you put that time in the distance. I would
4:44
Speaker 1: say that it's a mixed bag, you know. I feel
4:48
Speaker 1: like when you're performing, you have a lot of things
4:51
Speaker 1: you're trying to control in that moment, one remembering your lyrics,
4:55
Speaker 1: remembering how to play an instrument. But sometimes, yeah, I
5:00
Speaker 1: do think back to the moment when I wrote that,
5:02
Speaker 1: which is really special to me. And you know, no
5:06
Speaker 1: matter who in your life, isn't able to really show
5:10
Speaker 1: up for you the way you need it. I've had
5:13
Speaker 1: a lot of amazing chosen family and friends for a
5:17
Speaker 1: long time now, and I wrote this song or finished
5:21
Speaker 1: it up with my band in the room, and you know,
5:25
Speaker 1: they really helped pull me through that moment. So all
5:29
Speaker 1: in all, it also coincides with some really good and
5:33
Speaker 1: positive memories. So I'm not really afraid to think about
5:37
Speaker 1: the origins of that song because there was so many
5:40
Speaker 1: wonderful things happening and wonderful people showing up for me too.
5:46
Speaker 1: Did that song help change anybody's mind? I don't know.
5:52
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like maybe to the people that
5:56
Speaker 1: it really was directed to, I'm not sure if they
6:02
Speaker 1: were or are in a moment of recognition to where
6:06
Speaker 1: they could feel any sort of responsibility for that. So
6:13
Speaker 1: we'll come back to that. I want to change subjects
6:15
Speaker 1: for a minute though, Just something for the guitar nerds
6:18
Speaker 1: out there, okay, because your guitar sounds so great. What
6:21
Speaker 1: are you playing and how are you getting that great sound? Well?
6:25
Speaker 1: This is a nineteen sixty nine guild Starfire four and
6:33
Speaker 1: I love these guitars. And I've had this guitar for
6:36
Speaker 1: about eleven years now, and I you know, I've been
6:41
Speaker 1: told by many people I shouldn't play it out because
6:43
Speaker 1: of its age and kind of being fragile. But I
6:48
Speaker 1: feel like it still has a lot of playing to
6:51
Speaker 1: do left in it, you know, and I feel like
6:54
Speaker 1: it shouldn't retire. It should go out, you know, in
6:58
Speaker 1: somebody's hands. That's my thoughts on that. It's got some
7:02
Speaker 1: things to say still exactly. You know, I don't know
7:05
Speaker 1: if I do it justice, but it sure feels good
7:08
Speaker 1: to me. Now, there are a lot of sounds on
7:11
Speaker 1: your album. It's a great, great sounding album, and we
7:15
Speaker 1: should talk more about that too, But this particular song
7:19
Speaker 1: just has that fifties dreamy quality to it, which I
7:25
Speaker 1: find really kind of captivating and a little scary that sound.
7:29
Speaker 1: Were you thinking to give a particular album or song
7:31
Speaker 1: in mind for this particular one to get that sound?
7:35
Speaker 1: You know? Really, my band and I pull from so much.
7:41
Speaker 1: But and it just came out that way structurally when
7:46
Speaker 1: my drummer came in and you know, just played that
7:49
Speaker 1: beat in the way I'm playing the guitar, the song
7:52
Speaker 1: kind of did what it wanted to. But when I
7:56
Speaker 1: was thinking of soundscapes for this song and what I wanted,
7:59
Speaker 1: and honestly the guitar solo in there, which really amplifies
8:03
Speaker 1: that feel of an old time song. My bandmate Matt
8:07
Speaker 1: Rowan the first time we ever played it as a band.
8:11
Speaker 1: The day I finished this song. I still have it
8:14
Speaker 1: recorded on my phone. It's the exact same solo. It's
8:18
Speaker 1: never changed. It's what he came up with immediately, and
8:23
Speaker 1: I kind of fought hard to keep that in the
8:25
Speaker 1: song because that really does you know, you never know
8:30
Speaker 1: as a songwriter when you're finished. And a good friend
8:33
Speaker 1: of mine, Aaron Ray, told me one day we'll have
8:35
Speaker 1: you said everything you need to say. And I felt
8:39
Speaker 1: like after I wrote really the only true verse in
8:42
Speaker 1: that song, when Matt came in with that guitar lick,
8:46
Speaker 1: I felt like he said everything I couldn't say. Hmm. Now,
8:51
Speaker 1: most people when they think of Kentucky, I think really
8:54
Speaker 1: think of eastern Kentucky. They think about glacia and coal mining.
8:58
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about western Kentucky, Like, what
9:02
Speaker 1: are you seeing when you look out the window? Well,
9:05
Speaker 1: in Murray, in particular, I'm next to land between the lakes,
9:11
Speaker 1: which was a huge man made lake system, so there's
9:16
Speaker 1: protected forest out there. It's a beautiful landscape. But where
9:20
Speaker 1: I'm originally from, I was born in western Tennessee, raised
9:24
Speaker 1: in western Kentucky in a small town called Hickman, which
9:28
Speaker 1: was on the Mississippi River. So that landscape is more
9:33
Speaker 1: reminiscent of the Delta. So a lot of people don't think,
9:38
Speaker 1: but my dad is technically a Delta farmer. You know.
9:42
Speaker 1: So I was raised right on the Mississippi rivers, So
9:46
Speaker 1: what kind of what kind of farmer was he? He
9:49
Speaker 1: still is a farmer. He grows mono crops, so wheat, soybeans, corn.
9:56
Speaker 1: You know, we've got a few horses, I guess because
9:59
Speaker 1: we're Kentucky, but we don't do livestock or anything like that. Right.
10:04
Speaker 1: Was there a lot of music in your house growing up?
10:06
Speaker 1: You know my dad, because I mean I grew up
10:10
Speaker 1: in a town of less than three thousand people, and
10:14
Speaker 1: my dad was a music lover. And when you farm,
10:18
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time in a vehicle or
10:20
Speaker 1: a tractor, so we always were listening to music. And
10:25
Speaker 1: you know, I have an early memory of my dad
10:28
Speaker 1: and his brothers throwing a party at his shop and
10:31
Speaker 1: having a bluegrass band come in for the fish fry.
10:36
Speaker 1: But as far as like people who were seeking to
10:39
Speaker 1: be involved in music, I mean, my mother put me
10:42
Speaker 1: and my brothers and piano lessons at an early age.
10:45
Speaker 1: I quit. I couldn't handle performing. But you know, singing
10:49
Speaker 1: and music is a pastime. It's not necessarily something everybody
10:55
Speaker 1: takes seriously. It's more of a pastime. So I guess
10:58
Speaker 1: sort of we're a musical family. But did you when
11:02
Speaker 1: did you pick up the guitar? Probably around age fifteen.
11:07
Speaker 1: I started writing lyrics around age like that. I knew
11:12
Speaker 1: I was writing lyrics around age fourteen, and then I
11:17
Speaker 1: decided I wanted to play the guitar. I think I
11:20
Speaker 1: really wanted to play an instrument where I could go
11:23
Speaker 1: and be by myself and not be around anyone when
11:26
Speaker 1: I was trying to learn it. The piano was in
11:28
Speaker 1: the middle of the house, you know, so I could
11:31
Speaker 1: sneak off and lock a door somewhere and be by
11:35
Speaker 1: myself trying to figure it out. And you said you
11:37
Speaker 1: didn't like performing on the piano. Did you always like
11:40
Speaker 1: performing on guitar. No, I've never really liked performing until
11:45
Speaker 1: probably the past five years. It was just I love
11:50
Speaker 1: I love songwriting, and performing is something if you're trying
11:55
Speaker 1: to get your songs out you kind of have to do.
11:58
Speaker 1: But I was more are forced into performing through church
12:02
Speaker 1: growing up, you know, kind of with that threat of
12:07
Speaker 1: if you have a gift from God, if you don't
12:09
Speaker 1: use it, you'll lose it, you know. I was raising
12:12
Speaker 1: a real conservative house, and so performing was something I
12:17
Speaker 1: grew to love. Do you like it now? I do,
12:22
Speaker 1: And I really have found that I really miss it.
12:27
Speaker 1: I guess I suffered from imposter syndrome when it comes
12:31
Speaker 1: to performances. But now I feel like these last several
12:37
Speaker 1: months have made me realize that, well, maybe I am
12:40
Speaker 1: a performer. We'll be right back with Bruce Headlam's conversation
12:44
Speaker 1: with SG. After the break, We're back with SG. Goodman.
12:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure when you thought about putting out your first album,
12:56
Speaker 1: you weren't thinking, you know, I'll put it out in
12:58
Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic and there's protests all across
13:02
Speaker 1: the country and a very contentious election. You probably weren't
13:06
Speaker 1: thinking that way. Yeah, you know, I wasn't born a
13:09
Speaker 1: fortune teller, so but what can you do. We did
13:15
Speaker 1: the best we could with the circumstances. And I don't
13:19
Speaker 1: have any problem, you know, putting out music while there's
13:24
Speaker 1: protests or when some you know, people need to hear
13:29
Speaker 1: people from the South who are of the progressive persuasion.
13:32
Speaker 1: So I feel like my album has a place in
13:35
Speaker 1: this moment. We should talk a little more about the moment.
13:38
Speaker 1: But would you like to do another song for us? Sure?
13:41
Speaker 1: This one's called Old Time Feeling, the title track from
13:46
Speaker 1: my album Thank You, Thank You. The record version of
13:52
Speaker 1: that is very, very aggressive, a lot of guitar. It's
13:57
Speaker 1: probably the most aggressive song on the album. It's terrific,
14:00
Speaker 1: But I love that version. Thank You You know, not
14:03
Speaker 1: being able to pack my band in my house in
14:06
Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic is a little bit of
14:08
Speaker 1: a neutering feeling, I'm sure. But you've got some very
14:14
Speaker 1: interesting lyrics in there. You mentioned people who want change
14:19
Speaker 1: then do something strange. They go where I can't read
14:22
Speaker 1: the precise line, but they go where everybody feels the same.
14:25
Speaker 1: So who is that aimed at that line? You know?
14:29
Speaker 1: I feel like there is a pressure put on people
14:36
Speaker 1: in marginalized groups and in the South sometimes that can
14:40
Speaker 1: be progressives, LGBT community, things like that, to leave the
14:47
Speaker 1: South to find more like minded people. And there's a
14:51
Speaker 1: part of me that totally understands that. You know, a
14:54
Speaker 1: lot of people have to leave for either their physical
14:56
Speaker 1: health or mental health. But what happens is there is
15:02
Speaker 1: little to no representation for those groups or those ideals.
15:07
Speaker 1: And I really believe change comes from people seeing you
15:11
Speaker 1: live it out to your neighbors. And so that was
15:15
Speaker 1: more of a called of arms for people who, you know,
15:20
Speaker 1: point a finger back at the South, maybe their home
15:23
Speaker 1: where they came from, and say, well, that place is
15:26
Speaker 1: never going to change. Well it's a lost cause or whatever. Well,
15:30
Speaker 1: believe me, it always will be if everybody who wants
15:33
Speaker 1: to see it change leaves. So that's just problematic for
15:39
Speaker 1: me as a person, as a progressive from the South
15:42
Speaker 1: who knows that they're like minded people like me here,
15:46
Speaker 1: but we sometimes either aren't the story that the coast
15:50
Speaker 1: are telling about where we're from. And I feel like
15:54
Speaker 1: a lot of that is because you know, we have
15:57
Speaker 1: responsibility to provide that narrative for people people, and a
16:00
Speaker 1: lot of folks are not. What is that story that
16:03
Speaker 1: we're missing? Well, I would say, you know that there
16:09
Speaker 1: are a lot of progressive initiatives in the South. There
16:13
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are not subject or
16:19
Speaker 1: where they are subject, but they're not victim to the
16:22
Speaker 1: conditioning that people from rural places and the South have
16:27
Speaker 1: experienced through politicians and through these narratives from people on
16:31
Speaker 1: the outside. And you know, but because those initiatives do
16:37
Speaker 1: not play into those stereotypes, we don't, you know, get
16:42
Speaker 1: the attention that we deserve because in my opinion, when
16:47
Speaker 1: the South changes, and I'm going to say when what's
16:51
Speaker 1: going to happen is when the coast and when other
16:54
Speaker 1: places in the country don't have a place to just
16:57
Speaker 1: always point a finger at for their aggressive, our regressive
17:01
Speaker 1: policies and different things like that. They're gonna have to
17:05
Speaker 1: start taking responsibility for what's happening in their own backyard.
17:10
Speaker 1: And you know, the South and rural communities a lot
17:14
Speaker 1: of times are a good way to avoid responsibility for
17:19
Speaker 1: other people. You're also speaking right now as a white Southerner,
17:25
Speaker 1: and that's tricky territory right now, because Confederate monuments are
17:30
Speaker 1: being torn down and not you particularly, but but you know,
17:35
Speaker 1: white Southerners are you know, accused of hanging on to
17:38
Speaker 1: these face of old prejudices. Is that fair? Do you think? Well?
17:44
Speaker 1: I would say in a large part, yeah, we're gonna
17:48
Speaker 1: have to take, you know, responsibility for that. But once again,
17:53
Speaker 1: you should know, even in my little town of Murray,
17:57
Speaker 1: we gather around our Confederate monument, are pushing for change
18:01
Speaker 1: every Saturday morning leading marches. You know, there's a lot
18:04
Speaker 1: of folks here who are calling out Grandpa at the
18:08
Speaker 1: table for saying a racial slur. You know, there's a
18:11
Speaker 1: lot of complexity I feel in responsibility on white people
18:17
Speaker 1: who know what's being said behind closed doors in their
18:21
Speaker 1: homes and when they're hanging out with other white friends.
18:26
Speaker 1: You know, white supremacy and racism is a white person's problem.
18:34
Speaker 1: We're we're keeping it alive, and it's our our job to,
18:38
Speaker 1: you know, work on eradicating that, because you know, we're
18:44
Speaker 1: the ones imposing the consequences. So yes, I do feel like, unfortunately,
18:51
Speaker 1: I think there's there's responsibility there that we can't deny
18:55
Speaker 1: in any way, and I wouldn't ever try to. That's
18:59
Speaker 1: a great answer, thank you very much. I joked earlier
19:03
Speaker 1: about you releasing this album in the middle of a pandemic,
19:06
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of songs here that would
19:09
Speaker 1: seem to kind of address the current moment. The song
19:13
Speaker 1: about you know, burning a city down in your name,
19:17
Speaker 1: of course, suddenly has well, you tell me, what were
19:21
Speaker 1: you thinking about when you wrote that song? Nothing about
19:25
Speaker 1: where you're going with it, But you know, I was
19:31
Speaker 1: experiencing a heartbreak, and I think you know, as a
19:36
Speaker 1: person who's been in counseling for many years and you
19:39
Speaker 1: understand how when you're experiencing trauma, sometimes other traumas come
19:46
Speaker 1: up in that experience. And so I have some biblical analogies.
19:50
Speaker 1: I have a reference to a true story about my
19:54
Speaker 1: father who was severely burned while burning off of a
20:00
Speaker 1: wheat field one time, and so you know, I get
20:06
Speaker 1: where you're going at right now, I think, But I'm
20:10
Speaker 1: you know, like I said earlier, I'm not a fortune teller,
20:13
Speaker 1: so there was no way of me knowing that that
20:16
Speaker 1: could be applicable to any current events. Now I realize
20:21
Speaker 1: you haven't been able to play in public, but it's
20:23
Speaker 1: it's hard not to think of the song that way.
20:26
Speaker 1: It's hard not to think of George Floyd to be
20:28
Speaker 1: on a Taylor and you know many of the protests,
20:31
Speaker 1: and of course I should say, I'm not saying that
20:33
Speaker 1: protesters are the ones burning down things, far from it.
20:38
Speaker 1: But does this album it feels political to me? And
20:42
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't written that way, and a lot
20:44
Speaker 1: of great love songs and a lot of great songs
20:47
Speaker 1: can feel political even though they were very personal. Has
20:51
Speaker 1: the meaning of any of this changed for you? Is
20:53
Speaker 1: it a different feeling playing these songs now? Do they
20:57
Speaker 1: feel bigger or more social? I mean, in my opinion,
21:03
Speaker 1: you know, like old time feeling. I think I wrote
21:06
Speaker 1: that in twenty seventeen what you're seeing right now, and
21:12
Speaker 1: everybody should understand I didn't have to have current events
21:17
Speaker 1: to give me inspiration for what's happening right now. This
21:21
Speaker 1: has been happening for a long time. You know, my
21:25
Speaker 1: feelings about the South and the change that needs to happen,
21:29
Speaker 1: Uh didn't come two months ago. I've lived here all
21:34
Speaker 1: my life. You know, I'm just writing on my life experiences.
21:40
Speaker 1: So sure, I mean, you know, like I said, I
21:45
Speaker 1: don't I don't waste any time thinking about how people
21:49
Speaker 1: will interpret a thing. I think that's interesting. You're the
21:51
Speaker 1: first person who's ever brought my attention to the possible
21:55
Speaker 1: relevance of those words. So yeah, these are these are
21:59
Speaker 1: rough times, but I feel like there's a lot more,
22:03
Speaker 1: you know, important voices and messages being said right now,
22:07
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to try to co opt them
22:09
Speaker 1: and make my music fit into that narrative. You mentioned
22:12
Speaker 1: there's some biblical references in some of your songs, including
22:17
Speaker 1: Burned Down the City. Are there other books that have
22:21
Speaker 1: influenced you with your lyrics, because your lyrics are very literary.
22:25
Speaker 1: I don't mean that they're precious, but that they have
22:28
Speaker 1: a certain kind of almost novel like feeling to them. Well, so,
22:35
Speaker 1: one of my writing mentors is a man by the
22:40
Speaker 1: name of del Ray Phillips. He was a Pullet Surprise
22:44
Speaker 1: nominee for his collection of short stories My People as Waltz,
22:48
Speaker 1: which anybody listening I highly recommend when I took classes
22:53
Speaker 1: from him. But we've been friends, you know, really close,
22:56
Speaker 1: ever since I graduated college. And he came to me
23:00
Speaker 1: one day and he said, all right, I need you
23:02
Speaker 1: to do something for me. Never read Flannery O'Connor again.
23:07
Speaker 1: You have figured it out, you understand it, but you
23:11
Speaker 1: need to stop, just quit. You know, there were certain heroes,
23:15
Speaker 1: literary heroes that you know. He started encouraged me to
23:19
Speaker 1: read more contemporary writers like Jennifer Egan, who wrote an
23:23
Speaker 1: amazing short story called Safari and find that in some
23:26
Speaker 1: of the New Yorker archives and things like that. But
23:30
Speaker 1: I don't know, I read a lot of different things,
23:33
Speaker 1: and I love stories. And when you're a Southerner, stories
23:37
Speaker 1: passed the time. And I grew up with amazing storytellers,
23:41
Speaker 1: you know, oral stories. So I'd have to give a
23:45
Speaker 1: lot of credit to people that I grew up around.
23:49
Speaker 1: Was your father one of those? Was he a good storyteller?
23:52
Speaker 1: He is a good storyteller. There's a lot of great storytellers.
23:57
Speaker 1: I grew up across the street from a lady named
24:01
Speaker 1: Miss Betty McMullen, but she was Miss Betty Thomas, and
24:07
Speaker 1: our family was connected because my grandfather used his GI
24:12
Speaker 1: bill to buy out her father, who he worked for
24:15
Speaker 1: as a farm hand. He bought mister Thomas's farm equipment,
24:21
Speaker 1: and that's how my family got into farming. They were sharecroppers,
24:26
Speaker 1: and Miss Betty's husband, mister Sonny, moved her in across
24:30
Speaker 1: from my family when I was a child because he
24:32
Speaker 1: was dying of cancer. And one of my first jobs
24:35
Speaker 1: was to take care of Miss Betty. And she's the
24:38
Speaker 1: one who I can think for turning me onto a
24:41
Speaker 1: lot of my old country heroes like Lefty, Frizelle Hanks,
24:45
Speaker 1: Senior Patsy Klein because her family during the Depression had
24:51
Speaker 1: had money compared to everyone else, so she actually got
24:55
Speaker 1: to go to some of these concerts and would tell
24:58
Speaker 1: me these stories and and you know, she had a
25:01
Speaker 1: lot of them. Would show me a picture of her
25:03
Speaker 1: and her sister with the big frilly boots and things.
25:05
Speaker 1: But I cleaned her house growing up, and I kept
25:08
Speaker 1: her company, so I had a lot of these weird
25:12
Speaker 1: stories about her going and seeing Jerry Lee Lewis taking
25:16
Speaker 1: a train to Union City, which is now just a
25:18
Speaker 1: fifteen minute drive my closest Walmart, and there was a
25:25
Speaker 1: lot of rich storytellers around me growing up. We're going
25:29
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll be back with
25:31
Speaker 1: su Goodman. We're back with SG Goodman and the performance
25:39
Speaker 1: of her song Redbird Morning. That's beautiful, just to thank you.
25:45
Speaker 1: Heartbreaking song and I'm not even sure why it's so
25:48
Speaker 1: heartbreaking because it's sort of up tempo. But then you're
25:51
Speaker 1: talking at some point about whether you'll be loved and
25:55
Speaker 1: what did that song come out of? Well, I got dumped,
26:00
Speaker 1: my live in left me, and you know, I think
26:04
Speaker 1: when you are heartbroken and maybe some maybe a relationship ends,
26:10
Speaker 1: you become a detective and you try to figure out
26:13
Speaker 1: at which moments things kind of went south. And I
26:16
Speaker 1: left out of Kentucky on right before my birthday that year,
26:21
Speaker 1: and I went and delivered some goods to Standing Rock
26:25
Speaker 1: with some friends of mine, and I remember that not
26:30
Speaker 1: going over too well in that relationship. You know, they
26:33
Speaker 1: wanted to celebrate my birthday and you know all that stuff,
26:36
Speaker 1: and I typically do what I want to do in life,
26:40
Speaker 1: so I cut out in the middle of the night
26:42
Speaker 1: and drove a day to Cannonball, And that, of course
26:49
Speaker 1: wasn't the reason why our relationship is off. It's just
26:52
Speaker 1: what I was thinking about in that moment. And also
26:56
Speaker 1: I was putting out a record right after we had
27:01
Speaker 1: broken up, and her grandmother died on the day of
27:05
Speaker 1: my release, and we were both very close to our
27:10
Speaker 1: nana's is what we both call it, which is why
27:12
Speaker 1: our reference our nana or in the song. You know,
27:18
Speaker 1: when year or when a relationship ends, there's boundaries put
27:22
Speaker 1: up in place, and you can't be the person who
27:24
Speaker 1: comforts that person. And there's an old wives tale in
27:28
Speaker 1: the South that a redbird is sent to you. It's
27:32
Speaker 1: a person who's passed away coming to give you comfort
27:37
Speaker 1: or to visit you. And I just had a lot
27:42
Speaker 1: on my mind when I wrote it, It's beautiful. Thank you.
27:46
Speaker 1: When you set out to become a professional musician, where
27:50
Speaker 1: did you think your work was going to fit in
27:54
Speaker 1: in the world. Did you think about that? Were you
27:57
Speaker 1: going to be a country performer, a folk performer, or
28:00
Speaker 1: was it just I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do
28:02
Speaker 1: and we'll see. Well. When I started out chasing music,
28:09
Speaker 1: I actually wrote pop music and I did some touring
28:13
Speaker 1: with that, but it felt I love to write any
28:17
Speaker 1: kind of genre, you know. I would love to write
28:21
Speaker 1: from anybody, from Lizzo, I would love to produce a
28:23
Speaker 1: rap song. I just loved the craft of writing. But
28:27
Speaker 1: there's something about when you're singing it live, when you're
28:30
Speaker 1: having to put on the performer hat, that I didn't
28:34
Speaker 1: really feel authentic in my presentation as a pop musician.
28:40
Speaker 1: It wasn't very much me. And I was talking to
28:44
Speaker 1: a music executive who had heard some of my earlier
28:47
Speaker 1: pop music and was chasing me down to see if
28:50
Speaker 1: I was still doing it, and I told him no,
28:53
Speaker 1: that I was started writing you know kind of what
28:57
Speaker 1: you're hearing now. This was for another name that I
29:01
Speaker 1: went under, the Savage Radley, and I said, no, I've
29:03
Speaker 1: started playing with these boys and I'm really excited. And
29:06
Speaker 1: he told me, he said, well, I'm gonna tell you
29:08
Speaker 1: the honest strength about it. You're gonna work really hard
29:12
Speaker 1: for about five or six years, and you'll be lucky
29:14
Speaker 1: if anybody ever gives you any attention for that. And
29:20
Speaker 1: you know what, he was right, I did. I swear
29:23
Speaker 1: it was about six years to that phone call where
29:26
Speaker 1: I actually, you know, found a team and started turning
29:30
Speaker 1: heads a little bit with what I was doing. I mean,
29:32
Speaker 1: when you're thrown into the Americana genre is basically a
29:36
Speaker 1: big old umbrella where they don't know where to put you. Right,
29:40
Speaker 1: you know one reason I'm asking, and yes, you are
29:43
Speaker 1: put into the Americana bucket. But I keep hearing about Nashville,
29:50
Speaker 1: which is not too far from you, and how female
29:53
Speaker 1: acts just aren't doing anything. It's all I guess it's
29:56
Speaker 1: a male acts right now in country music. But all
29:59
Speaker 1: I do as I keep interviewing people like you, Margot Price,
30:05
Speaker 1: Yola and Lucinda Williams, who obviously as a big track record.
30:08
Speaker 1: But I just keep thinking, but all the good songs
30:10
Speaker 1: are coming from women. I just sort of don't get.
30:13
Speaker 1: I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I'm just
30:16
Speaker 1: not thinking read about Nashville I think, I mean, I
30:20
Speaker 1: might get in trouble for saying this, but I'm just
30:22
Speaker 1: gonna tell it how I see it. I think a
30:25
Speaker 1: lot of the men who get a lot of attention
30:27
Speaker 1: for their music, they have a strong male fan base,
30:31
Speaker 1: and it's because they see them and they're like, oh man,
30:35
Speaker 1: he don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit,
30:37
Speaker 1: and I love him because he don't give a shit.
30:39
Speaker 1: I'm a fan. You know. It's like this thing, and
30:43
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like there's a lot of people
30:47
Speaker 1: who just kind of identify with the persona of what
30:51
Speaker 1: they're seeing instead of great writing. I mean, I have
30:55
Speaker 1: a lot of female friends who are amazing writers, and
30:59
Speaker 1: I know I won't say whose names or nothing, but
31:02
Speaker 1: I'd put them up against any of those boys, and
31:04
Speaker 1: I'd say they're making just as good or better records
31:08
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases. You know, there's there are
31:11
Speaker 1: plenty of amazing male songwriters out there, but one thing
31:15
Speaker 1: that a female has hard time doing is to convince
31:21
Speaker 1: a man that they want to be like her. So
31:24
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of my ladies are the
31:28
Speaker 1: token lady on the ticket, including myself. Sometimes, how we're
31:34
Speaker 1: going to bust through that ceiling, I think I don't
31:38
Speaker 1: really know, really, I guess just keep doing it. Yeah,
31:42
Speaker 1: I'm just walking around thankful that I'm getting to play
31:45
Speaker 1: music for a living. I don't want to write albums
31:48
Speaker 1: about how hard I've had it. You know, it's just
31:52
Speaker 1: like shit, I can be more creative than that well
31:57
Speaker 1: you're putting it. You're putting up great music, so there's
31:59
Speaker 1: nothing more badass than that. Thank you so much for
32:02
Speaker 1: talking and playing. It was wonderful. I appreciate it. Thank you.
32:09
Speaker 1: Thanks to ask You Goodman for playing songs off your
32:11
Speaker 1: debut album and for sharing some of the inspiration behind
32:15
Speaker 1: her music. You can hear sg's album on a playlist
32:18
Speaker 1: at broken record podcast dot com, and be sure to
32:21
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
32:24
Speaker 1: broken record Podcast. There you can find extended cuts of
32:28
Speaker 1: new and old episodes. Broken Record is produced with help
32:31
Speaker 1: from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and
32:36
Speaker 1: his executive Produced by Neil LaBelle. Broken Record is a
32:39
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record,
32:42
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review our show on
32:45
Speaker 1: your podcast at our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm
32:48
Speaker 1: justin Richmond Bass