Latest / The Philosophy Insights Collection / 34 - The Republic - Plato
Transcript
- 0:00Book nine, Part two. Let me then offer you an illustration which may
- 0:07I think throw a light upon this subject. What is your illustration? The
- 0:13case of rich individuals in cities who possess many slaves. From them, you
- 0:18may form an idea of the tyrant's condition, For they both have slaves.
- 0:23The only difference is that he has more slaves. Yes, that is the
- 0:28difference. You know that they live securely and have nothing to apprehend from their
- 0:33servants. What should they fear? Nothing? But do you observe the reason
- 0:39of this? Yes? The reason is that the whole city is leagued together
- 0:45for the protection of each individual. Very true, I said, But imagine
- 0:52one of these owners, the master, say, of some fifty slaves,
- 0:55together with his family and property, and slaves carried off by a into the
- 1:00wilderness where there are no free men to help him. Will he not be
- 1:03in an agony of fear lest he and his wife and children should be put
- 1:07to death by his slaves. Yes, he said, he will be in
- 1:11the utmost fear. The time has arrived when he will be compelled to flatter
- 1:18divers of his slaves and make many promises to them of freedom and other things,
- 1:22much against his will he will have to cajole his own servants. Yes,
- 1:29he said, that will be the only way of saving himself. And
- 1:33suppose the same God who carried him away to surround him with neighbors who will
- 1:37not suffer one man to be the master of another, and who, if
- 1:41they could catch the offender, would take his life. His case will be
- 1:46still worse if you suppose him to be everywhere surrounded and watched by enemies.
- 1:51And is not this the sort of prison in which the tyrant will be bound?
- 1:56He who, being by nature such as we have described, is full
- 1:59of all sorts of fears and lusts. His soul is dainty and greedy,
- 2:04and yet alone of all men in the city, he is never allowed to
- 2:07go on a journey or to see the things which other freemen desire to see.
- 2:10But he lives in his hole like a woman hidden in the house,
- 2:14and is jealous of any other citizen who goes into foreign parts and sees anything
- 2:17of interest. Very true, he said, And amid evils such as these,
- 2:23will not he who is ill governed in his own person? The tyrannical
- 2:28man, I mean, whom you just now decided to be the most miserable
- 2:30of all, will not he be yet more miserable when, instead of leaving
- 2:35a private life, he is constrained by fortune to be a public tyrant.
- 2:38He has to be master of others when he is not master of himself.
- 2:42He is like a diseased or paralytic man who is compelled to pass his life
- 2:46not a retirement, but fighting and combating with other men. Yes, he
- 2:52said, the similitude is most exact, is not his case utterly miserable,
- 2:58and does not the actual tie lead a worse life than he whose life you
- 3:01determined to be the worst. Certainly, he who is the real tyrant,
- 3:07whatever men may think, is the real slave, and is obliged to practice
- 3:12the greatest adulation and servility, and to be the flatterer of the vilest of
- 3:15mankind. He is desires which he is utterly unable to satisfy, and has
- 3:21more wants than anyone, and is truly poor, if you know how to
- 3:24inspect the whole soul of him, all his life long, he is beset
- 3:28with fear, and is full of convulsions and distractions, even as the state
- 3:31which he resembles, And surely the resemblance holds very true, he said,
- 3:39Moreover, as we were saying before, he grows worse from having power.
- 3:44He becomes and is of necessity more jealous, more faithless, more unjust,
- 3:49more friendless, more impious than he was at first. He is the purveyor
- 3:53and cherisher of every sort of vice, and the consequence is that he is
- 3:58supremely miserable, and that he makes everybody else as miserable as himself. No
- 4:02man of any sense will dispute your words. Come, then, I said,
- 4:09And as the general umpire in theatrical contests proclaim the result, do you
- 4:14also decide who, in your opinion, is the first in the scale of
- 4:16happiness, and who second? And in what order the others follow? There
- 4:20are five of them. In all they are the royal, timocratical, oligarchical,
- 4:26democratical, tyrannical. The decision will be easily given, he replied.
- 4:31They shall be choruses coming on the stage, and I must judge them in
- 4:35the order in which they enter, by the criterion of virtue and vice,
- 4:40happiness and misery. Need we hire a herald? Or shall I announce that
- 4:45the son of Ariston the Best has decided that the best and justice is also
- 4:49the happiest and that this is he who is the most royal man and king
- 4:54over himself, And that the worst and most unjust man is also the most
- 4:58miserable, And that this is he who, being the greatest tyrant of himself,
- 5:01is also the greatest tyrant of his state. Make the proclamation yourself,
- 5:06he said, And shall I add, whether seen or unseen by gods and
- 5:13men, let the words be added. Then, this, I said,
- 5:18will be our first proof. And there is another which may also have some
- 5:23weight. What is that? The second proof is derived from the nature of
- 5:30the soul. Seeing that the individual soul, like the state, has been
- 5:33divided by us into three principles. The division may, I think, furnish
- 5:38a new demonstration of what nature. It seems to me that to these three
- 5:45principles three pleasures, correspond also three desires and governing powers. How do you
- 5:51mean, he said, There is one principle with which, as we were
- 5:57saying, a man learns another with which he is angry. The third,
- 6:01having many forms, has no special name, but is denoted by the general
- 6:06term appetitive. From the extraordinary strength and vehemence of the desires of eating and
- 6:13drinking, and the other sensual appetites which are the main elements of it,
- 6:16also money loving, because such desires are generally satisfied by the help of money.
- 6:21That is true, he said. If we were to say that the
- 6:26loves and pleasures of this third part were concerned with gain, we should then
- 6:30be able to fall back on a single notion, and might truly and intelligibly
- 6:33describe this part of the soul as loving gain or money. I agree with
- 6:40you again, is not the passionate element wholly set on ruling and conquering and
- 6:46getting fame? True? Suppose we call it the contentious or ambitious? Would
- 6:53the term be suitable? Extremely suitable. On the other hand, everyone sees
- 7:00that the principle of knowledge is wholly directed to the truth, and cares less
- 7:04than either of the others for gain or fame, far less. Lover of
- 7:12wisdom lover of knowledge are titles which we may fitly apply to that part of
- 7:16the soul. Certainly, one principle prevails in the souls of one class of
- 7:23men, another in others, as may happen. Yes, then we may
- 7:30begin by assuming that there are three classes of men lovers of wisdom, lovers
- 7:35of honor, lovers of gain exactly, and there are three kinds of pleasure,
- 7:43which are their several objects? Very true? Now, if you examine
- 7:49the three classes of men and ask of them in turn, which of their
- 7:53lives is pleasantest, each will be found praising his own and depreciating that of
- 7:59others. The money maker will contrast the vanity of honor or of learning if
- 8:03they bring no money, with the solid advantages of gold and silver, true,
- 8:09he said, And the lover of honor, what will be his opinion?
- 8:13Will he not think that the pleasure of riches is vulgar, while the
- 8:16pleasure of learning, if it brings no distinction, is all smoke and nonsense
- 8:22to him? Very true? And are we to suppose I said, that
- 8:26the philosopher sets any value on other pleasures in comparison with the pleasure of knowing
- 8:31the truth, and in that pursuit abiding ever learning, not so far?
- 8:35Indeed, from the heaven of pleasure? Does he not call the other pleasures
- 8:39necessary under the idea that if there were no necessity for them, he would
- 8:43rather not have them. There can be no doubt of that, he replied,
- 8:50Since then the pleasures of each class and the life of each are in
- 8:54dispute, and the question is not which life is more or less honorable,
- 8:58or better or worse, but which is the more pleasant or painless? How
- 9:03shall we know who speaks? Truly, I cannot myself tell, he said,
- 9:07Well, but what ought to be the criterion? Is any better than
- 9:11experience and wisdom and reason? There cannot be better, he said, Then,
- 9:18I said, reflect of the three individuals, which has the greatest experience
- 9:24of all the pleasures which we enumerated, has the lover of gain in learning
- 9:28the nature of essential truth greater experience of the pleasure of knowledge than the philosopher
- 9:33has of the pleasure of gain. The philosopher, he replied, has greatly
- 9:37the advantage, for he has, of necessity always known the taste of the
- 9:41other pleasures from his childhood upwards. But the lover of gain, in all
- 9:46his experience, has not, of necessity tasted, or I should rather say,
- 9:50even had he desired, could hardly have tasted the sweetness of learning and
- 9:56knowing truth. Then the lover of wisdom has a great advantage over the lover
- 10:00of gain, for he has a double experience. Yes, very great Again,
- 10:07has he greater experience of the pleasures of honor? Or the lover of
- 10:11honor of the pleasures of wisdom. Nay, he said, all three are
- 10:16honored in proportion as they attain their object. For the rich man and the
- 10:20brave man, and the wise men alike have their crowd of admirers, And
- 10:24as they all receive honor, they all have experience of the pleasures of honor.
- 10:30But the delight which is to be found in the knowledge of true being
- 10:33is known to the philosopher. Only his experience, then, will enable him
- 10:37to judge better than anyone far better. And he is the only one who
- 10:45has wisdom as well as experience. Certainly, Further, the very faculty which
- 10:52is the instrument of judgment is not possessed by the covetuous or ambitious man,
- 10:56but only by the philosopher faculty reason with whom, as we were saying,
- 11:03the decision ought to rest yes and reasoning is peculiarly his instrument. Certainly,
- 11:16if wealth and gain were the criterion, then the praise or blame of the
- 11:18lover of gain would certainly be the most trustworthy. Assuredly, or if honor
- 11:26or victory or courage, in that case, the judgment of the ambitious or
- 11:30pugnacious would be the truest clearly. But since experience and wisdom and reason are
- 11:37the judges, the only inference possible, he replied, is that pleasures which
- 11:43are approved by the lover of wisdom and reason are the truest. And so
- 11:48we arrive at the result that the pleasure of the intelligent part of the soul
- 11:54is the pleasantest of the three, and that he of us, in whom
- 11:56this is the ruling principle, has the pleasantest life. Unquestionably, he said,
- 12:03the wise man speaks with authority when he approves of his own life.
- 12:09And what does the judge affirm to be the life which is next? And
- 12:11the pleasure which is next, clearly that of the soldier and lover of honor,
- 12:16who is nearer to himself than the money maker. Last comes the lover
- 12:22of gain. Very true, he said, twice in succession. Then has
- 12:30the just man overthrown the unjust in this conflict. And now comes the third
- 12:33trial, which is dedicated to Olympian Zeus the Savior. A sage whispers in
- 12:39my ear that no pleasure except that of the wise is quite true and pure.
- 12:43All others are a shadow only. And surely this will prove the greatest
- 12:46and most decisive of false. Yes, the greatest. But will you explain
- 12:52yourself. I will work out the subject and you shall answer my questions.
- 12:58Proceed, Say, then, is not pleasure opposite to pain? True?
- 13:05And there is a neutral state which is neither pleasure nor pain. There is
- 13:13a state which is intermediate and a sort of repose of the soul about either.
- 13:16That is what you mean. Yes, you remember what people say when
- 13:22they are sick. What do they say that, after all, nothing is
- 13:28pleasanter than health? But then they never knew this to be the greatest of
- 13:31pleasures until they were ill. Yes, I know, he said. And
- 13:37when persons are suffering from acute pain, you must have heard them say that
- 13:41there is nothing pleasanter than to get rid of their pain. I have.
- 13:46And there are many other cases of suffering in which the mere rest and cessation
- 13:50of pain, and not any positive enjoyment, is extolled by them as the
- 13:54greatest pleasure. Yes, he said. At the time they are pleased and
- 14:00well content to be at rest. Again, when pleasure ceases, that sort
- 14:05of rest or cessation will be painful, doubtless, he said. Then the
- 14:11intermediate state of rest will be pleasure and will also be pain, so it
- 14:16would seem. But can that which is neither become both? I should say
- 14:24not. And both pleasure and pain are motions of the soul, are they
- 14:28not? Yes? But that which is neither was just now shown to be
- 14:35rest and not motion, and in a mean between them. Yes. How
- 14:41then can we be right in supposing that the absence of pain is pleasure,
- 14:46or that the absence of pleasure is pain? Impossible? This then is an
- 14:54appearance only and not a reality. That is to say, the rest is
- 14:58pleasure at the moment, and in can comparison of what is painful and painful
- 15:01in comparison of what is pleasant. But all these representations, when tried by
- 15:07the test of true pleasure, are not real, but a sort of imposition,
- 15:11that is the inference. Look at the other class of pleasures, which
- 15:16have no antecedent pains, and you will no longer suppose, as you perhaps
- 15:20may at present, that pleasure is only the cessation of pain or pain of
- 15:24pleasure. What are they? He said? And where shall I find them?
- 15:31There are many of them. Take as an example, the pleasures of
- 15:35smell, which are very great and have no antecedent pains. They come in
- 15:39a moment, and when they depart, leave no pain behind them. Most
- 15:43true, he said, Let us not then be induced to believe that pure
- 15:48pleasure is the cessation of pain or pain of pleasure. No. Still,
- 15:56the more numerous and violent pleasures which reach the soul through the body are generally
- 16:00of this sort. There are reliefs of pain, that is true, and
- 16:06the anticipations of future pleasures and pains are of a like nature. Yes,
- 16:11shall I give you an illustration of them? Let me hear you would allow?
- 16:18I said that there is in nature an upper and lower and middle region.
- 16:22I should and if a person were to go from the lower to the
- 16:26middle region, would he not imagine that he is going up? And he
- 16:30who is standing in the middle and sees whence he has come, would imagine
- 16:34that he is already in the upper region if he has never seen the true
- 16:37upper world. To be sure, he said, how can he think otherwise?
- 16:44But if we were taken back again, he would imagine, and truly
- 16:47imagine that he was descending. No doubt all that would arise out of his
- 16:53ignorance of the true upper and middle and lower regions. Yes. End of
- 17:00Book nine, Part two