Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL TROUBLE FOR ALEX MURDAUGH: Teen Stephen Smith Death is Homicide

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BOMBSHELL TROUBLE FOR ALEX MURDAUGH: Teen Stephen Smith Death is Homicide · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Bombshell out of South Carolina.
0:16
Speaker 1: In the last hours, the inquiry into the death of
0:20
Speaker 1: teen boy Stephen Smith has turned into a homicide investigation.
0:27
Speaker 1: That's right. For all these years, the teen found not
0:32
Speaker 1: two too far from Alex Murdoch's Moselle hunting Lodge, has
0:38
Speaker 1: been deemed to be a hit and run. That has
0:41
Speaker 1: changed in the last hour's repeat that inquiry has turned
0:46
Speaker 1: into a homicide investigation. I mean, Nancy Grace, this is
0:51
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox
0:54
Speaker 1: Nation in Sirius XM one eleven. Joining me right now
0:58
Speaker 1: is Ronnie Richter, partner in Bland Richter, who is spearheading
1:04
Speaker 1: the effort to have Stephen Smith's body exhumed for a
1:08
Speaker 1: private autopsy. Ronnie, thank you for being with us. Ronnie.
1:13
Speaker 1: What happened? My partner Eric Bland and I received a
1:15
Speaker 1: call from Chief Mark Keel, he is the top cop
1:19
Speaker 1: in the state of South Carolina in charge of the
1:22
Speaker 1: South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, to tell us that if
1:25
Speaker 1: we are proceeding with the exhumation of Stephen Smith's body
1:29
Speaker 1: to try to prove the sled that this was not
1:31
Speaker 1: just a hit and run that we did not have
1:34
Speaker 1: to do that, that they don't view it as a
1:36
Speaker 1: hit and run. They view this as a homicide, and
1:39
Speaker 1: they are committed to this investigation and they're dedicating resources
1:44
Speaker 1: to investigate the truth behind the death of Stephen Smith.
1:48
Speaker 1: The body is still going to have to be exhumed
1:52
Speaker 1: for an autopsy to find the truth about his injuries.
1:58
Speaker 1: But this whole thing has taken eight years. It did
2:03
Speaker 1: take eight years, and that is a matter of frustration
2:05
Speaker 1: with Sandy Smith, as you might imagine. But it appears
2:09
Speaker 1: what happened is this investigation got lost between two agencies
2:12
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. Was it a vehicular depth which falls
2:16
Speaker 1: under highway patrol? Was it a murder that falls under
2:18
Speaker 1: sled We think that's where the investigation first got derailed.
2:23
Speaker 1: And what happened after that was that virtually all of
2:26
Speaker 1: our resources in the state were devoted to the Murdo
2:30
Speaker 1: murder investigations for a period of time. So I think
2:34
Speaker 1: that we were run thin for a while. Justice is
2:38
Speaker 1: slow and is frustrating when it's not your turn. But
2:42
Speaker 1: we are reassured that this investigation is real, that its ongoing,
2:46
Speaker 1: and that the resources are being devoted to it. Now
2:48
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. I can't decay now one
2:52
Speaker 1: ways your emergency. I'm just calling that a wrong rule.
2:58
Speaker 1: I see somebody laying up. What road are you looked
3:03
Speaker 1: at him? And how we went up? You're on Cardoville rule?
3:07
Speaker 1: Were getting on the crocket Bill rule? Yeah? Hold on different?
3:15
Speaker 1: And which way you headed? Okay? We had a court
3:20
Speaker 1: are you going to? Uh huh? Yeah, okay, you're on
3:24
Speaker 1: that rule? Just before you get into the crocket Bill
3:28
Speaker 1: Terry Crocotville mat there right, That's where everything starts, right
3:32
Speaker 1: there with the discovery of the body of this young
3:35
Speaker 1: team Steven Smith, not too far from Alex and Murdock's
3:40
Speaker 1: hunting lodge, one of his three homes. The body found
3:44
Speaker 1: out in the road, in the middle of the road,
3:47
Speaker 1: badly injured, Stephen Smith dead. Let's take a listen to
3:52
Speaker 1: more of that nine on one call. And it didn't
3:54
Speaker 1: the road or on the side of the rule. Roul
3:58
Speaker 1: Wood in the room? Yeah, all right? What's the name
4:04
Speaker 1: of comment number? My leader is Ryan Paper? Okay, all right,
4:08
Speaker 1: miss Keeper? Can I get a phone number? Poy you uh,
4:13
Speaker 1: I don't move number of OFFICI form. We can call
4:15
Speaker 1: the number back I'm going to work, okay, but if
4:19
Speaker 1: there's a good number to reach you back at yeah, okay,
4:22
Speaker 1: all right, We're getting off the headed out that way
4:24
Speaker 1: to see was going on, okay, leaving the rule right. Oh,
4:28
Speaker 1: I ain't moving another like that, but somebody boy eating it? Huh,
4:34
Speaker 1: all right boy eating all right, We're getting off the
4:36
Speaker 1: headed out that way. A stranger calling nine one one,
4:40
Speaker 1: concerned that another vehicle, a big truck or a car
4:43
Speaker 1: will run over the body of Stephen Smith. Laying out
4:47
Speaker 1: in the road with me and all Star panel to
4:49
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now, as Alex
4:52
Speaker 1: and Murdog waits in his jail cell to be assigned
4:54
Speaker 1: to a CI State Correctional Institute of South Carolina, he
4:58
Speaker 1: cannot be happy about news that in the coming days
5:04
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's body is going to be exhumed and a
5:08
Speaker 1: private autopsy will happen. Let's don't put the cart before
5:12
Speaker 1: the horse. Joining me right now is high profile lawyer
5:15
Speaker 1: out of South Carolina, Eric Bland, first representing the glorious
5:20
Speaker 1: Sadderfield family, another victim that loses her life there at
5:25
Speaker 1: the Mozelle Hunting Lodge. Also representing the Stephen Smith family,
5:31
Speaker 1: and Stephen Smith's Mother's pursuit of justice. Eric Bland, thank
5:35
Speaker 1: you for being with us. He's also co host of
5:37
Speaker 1: Cup of Justice podcasts and you can find him at
5:41
Speaker 1: bland Richter dot com. Eric, you know, just this morning
5:46
Speaker 1: I dropped the children off to school and I was
5:50
Speaker 1: asking them, Okay, who has pe? Now they call it
5:53
Speaker 1: body con Okay, it's not pe anymore yet, body conditioning.
5:58
Speaker 1: They run unlight rabbits and lift weights, body count And
6:03
Speaker 1: I'm saying, who has pe first? And who has trick practicing?
6:08
Speaker 1: Who's going to go to the school tutorial in math
6:10
Speaker 1: at three o'clock? Can you imagine? See that's where my
6:14
Speaker 1: head is, and this mom, Steven Smith's mother, is still
6:19
Speaker 1: trying to find out why is my son dead? Tell
6:24
Speaker 1: me about Steven Smith's mother as she is inching forward
6:28
Speaker 1: to the actual examation digging up the body of her son.
6:33
Speaker 1: Another thing I can't even imagine. What is her frame
6:37
Speaker 1: of mind? Eric? Well, I mean she's an extraordinary woman,
6:40
Speaker 1: that's all. My clients were as articulate as she is
6:43
Speaker 1: and had her sense of kindness, it would make my
6:46
Speaker 1: job a lot easier. You've heard talk on on TV.
6:50
Speaker 1: She's a mother who wants answers. I mean, it's been
6:53
Speaker 1: eight years of like paralysis. She knows that the odds
6:59
Speaker 1: are that Stephen did not die on Sandy Run Road,
7:04
Speaker 1: that he may have died somewhere else. If it was
7:08
Speaker 1: a hit and run, and it turns out to have
7:11
Speaker 1: been a hit and run, there is somebody that has
7:13
Speaker 1: knowledge of that, and there's a criminal who killed somebody
7:18
Speaker 1: and drove away, which is a crime in any state
7:20
Speaker 1: in this country. She just wants some answer so she
7:23
Speaker 1: can get peace. This is not about money. There's no
7:28
Speaker 1: threats of civil suits. The go fund me, which which
7:33
Speaker 1: gave us the money to be able to afford this process,
7:37
Speaker 1: is one of these proceeds are going directly into the
7:41
Speaker 1: investigation in the exhimation. I'm giving my legal time for
7:45
Speaker 1: free in the exhimation process and supervising the investigation objection
7:51
Speaker 1: beyond the scope of the question. Okay with me, high
7:55
Speaker 1: profile lawyer Eric Bland again, let's go put the cart
7:58
Speaker 1: before the horse. I want to get a Blair Sable
8:01
Speaker 1: investigative reporter live five knees, Charleston. He's been on the
8:05
Speaker 1: story from the beginning. Blair, thank you for being with us.
8:08
Speaker 1: You just heard the nine one one calls. Did you
8:11
Speaker 1: describe for our viewers and listeners the stretch of road
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Speaker 1: where Stevens to me as a body was found. It's
8:19
Speaker 1: very nondescript. It's in the middle of Hampton County if
8:23
Speaker 1: you've been out in that area, and I'm sure a
8:25
Speaker 1: lot of folks kind of drove through if they had
8:28
Speaker 1: attended the recent Murdoch trial. It's just a very long highway.
8:32
Speaker 1: It's two lanes, there's fields on either side. There's not
8:37
Speaker 1: a lot going on there. How far is it from Moselle.
8:40
Speaker 1: It's very close. It's just a few miles away. When
8:43
Speaker 1: I was doing coverage pre trial, we were, you know,
8:47
Speaker 1: going around to all of the significant locations, and we
8:49
Speaker 1: actually drove from Moselle to the Stephen Smith or the
8:53
Speaker 1: road where he was found. And it's it's thirty minutes maybe,
8:57
Speaker 1: did you say thirty or three thirty thirty? Eric Bland,
9:00
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the stretch of road
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Speaker 1: that anything, in addition to what Blair told us, it's
9:06
Speaker 1: country's country can get nance. It's dark, it's there's not
9:11
Speaker 1: a lot of homes in between each of the homes,
9:14
Speaker 1: there's no landmarks. You know, from Alex's place in Mozelle
9:18
Speaker 1: at the nearest convenience stores nine minutes, So if you're
9:22
Speaker 1: stuck out there, if you have to walk out there,
9:24
Speaker 1: it's it's a lonely, scary place. And Stephen, with the
9:28
Speaker 1: lifestyle that he lived, was a very careful young man.
9:32
Speaker 1: You know it. Being gay in the Low Country in
9:34
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen was not the most popular thing in the world.
9:38
Speaker 1: That took courage, and so he was very careful where
9:41
Speaker 1: he walked, where he traveled. So that's one of the
9:45
Speaker 1: things that is perplexing to obviously Sandy and us is
9:50
Speaker 1: why would he leave us wallet in his car if
9:52
Speaker 1: it ran out of gas? Why Why wouldn't he have
9:55
Speaker 1: made some phone calls along the way? On the walk?
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Speaker 1: He would have called his twin sis, Stephane, who is
10:01
Speaker 1: extremely extremely close with You have twins, so you know
10:05
Speaker 1: how twins rely on each other. You would have called
10:08
Speaker 1: her and said, look, Sis, to get me. I might
10:10
Speaker 1: have guessed she would have said stay there. He would
10:13
Speaker 1: have walked through the woods. There's a path that he
10:16
Speaker 1: would have taken that Sandy Smith said he would not
10:19
Speaker 1: have taken that route in the road. So there's just
10:24
Speaker 1: more questions and answers than when you have more questions
10:27
Speaker 1: and you're a mother. You can imagine what that does
10:30
Speaker 1: to you. Over eight years, Ary Bland, he did have
10:33
Speaker 1: his cell phone with him if he did. Hi, guys,
10:40
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Speaker 1: com Now to watch Prime Stories with Nancy Grace guys
12:09
Speaker 1: joining me as Chris mcdonna direct from the Cold Case Foundation.
12:13
Speaker 1: Former homicide detective has handled well over three hundred homicides
12:18
Speaker 1: Annie as a host of a YouTube channel, the Interview Room.
12:21
Speaker 1: You can find him at Coldcase Foundation dot org. Chris,
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Speaker 1: you and I have both driven this road and have
12:29
Speaker 1: very carefully gone over the terrain. Now, driving a night
12:35
Speaker 1: in that area where Stephen Smith's body was found, there
12:39
Speaker 1: are no street lights. There, no red lights, no caution lights, nothing.
12:44
Speaker 1: It's pitch black. Think of cutting off all the lights
12:48
Speaker 1: at night in a room and shutting the door, no windows,
12:52
Speaker 1: pitch black. When I was driving back and forth to
12:56
Speaker 1: the trial, I would see thirty or forty deer going by.
13:01
Speaker 1: You could just kind of like images of them because
13:04
Speaker 1: it was so dark. I couldn't make anything out. And
13:08
Speaker 1: that was an issue at trial with Alex Murdog him
13:11
Speaker 1: driving eighty MP eight from his mother's house at Almeda
13:16
Speaker 1: back to Mozille where Maggie and Paul were murdered at
13:20
Speaker 1: eighty miles an hour. Why so, what is your take
13:24
Speaker 1: of where the body was found? This is really important,
13:26
Speaker 1: Chris one hundred percent, Nancy, and you and you have
13:30
Speaker 1: felt that environment, just as you've described. The first thing
13:34
Speaker 1: that's critical in this particular case here is what we
13:38
Speaker 1: would call the p O I right, the point of impact.
13:42
Speaker 1: And you know, if you take into an account of
13:46
Speaker 1: this young man, you know, hypothetically walking down the middle
13:49
Speaker 1: of the street, he's got a cell phone with him.
13:51
Speaker 1: That's one thing, But that cell phone also has a
13:54
Speaker 1: flashlight on it. And that evening it had to have been,
13:59
Speaker 1: you know, four o'clock in the morning as when he's discovered,
14:02
Speaker 1: but they I think the corner shaid time of death
14:05
Speaker 1: as approximately three am. So at three am, this young man,
14:10
Speaker 1: who knows the terrain, as his mom says, you know,
14:14
Speaker 1: would have taken a short cut. The question is why
14:18
Speaker 1: is he in the middle of the road. And then
14:19
Speaker 1: secondarily you're going to see a car coming for miles
14:24
Speaker 1: on that road. Oh yeah, because you know when I
14:27
Speaker 1: was driving it, and I drived it many times at night, Chris,
14:31
Speaker 1: there was hardly anybody on the road. And it was
14:34
Speaker 1: at three am when I was driving, But it was
14:36
Speaker 1: late at night, eleven twelve, one am, because I had
14:39
Speaker 1: a five hour drive to get there, and I wanted
14:42
Speaker 1: to eat supper with twins before I left, so I
14:45
Speaker 1: didn't even leave until eight o'clock at night. And if
14:50
Speaker 1: there was a car coming as rare as that was,
14:52
Speaker 1: you could see it miles away. Yeah. Absolutely, And I
14:56
Speaker 1: and I actually went out there to that spot and
15:00
Speaker 1: a ui, I wanted to get a sense of what
15:03
Speaker 1: that environment was. There's a cornfield on one side, there's
15:07
Speaker 1: a single house right near where the body is, where
15:10
Speaker 1: the body allegedly was, and and the interesting thing about
15:13
Speaker 1: it on that back to the un original point in
15:15
Speaker 1: your question, Nancy, was the point of impact or where
15:18
Speaker 1: this body ended up was right in the middle of
15:23
Speaker 1: the highway. And if it's if it's a motor vehicle accident,
15:28
Speaker 1: and you know there's a high velocity that's going to
15:31
Speaker 1: move the body to one side of the road or
15:33
Speaker 1: the other, not dead center into the middle of the road,
15:38
Speaker 1: that is very, very highly unlikely to occur. I have
15:42
Speaker 1: a question, Nancy, So Chris Um, you are one correct.
15:48
Speaker 1: If the body would not releasing remain in the center
15:54
Speaker 1: of the road, there obviously would be bumper marks or
15:57
Speaker 1: something on Steve. And one thing that does concern me,
16:01
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be a contrarian here because I'm
16:04
Speaker 1: just learning the case. You guys know so much more
16:06
Speaker 1: of it to me. Admittedly, I just got involved. The
16:10
Speaker 1: amount of blood that leaked out of his head onto
16:14
Speaker 1: the road. Doesn't that trouble you if he was killed
16:18
Speaker 1: somewhere else, Yeah, it troubles me. Let's talk to doctor
16:21
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, and author
16:28
Speaker 1: of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She literally has written the book. Okay,
16:33
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, jump in. So, I understand your concern about
16:36
Speaker 1: the amount of blood on the roadway, and that's a
16:40
Speaker 1: valid concern. But given the set of circumstances, I'm not
16:44
Speaker 1: sure that that is something that we would really need
16:46
Speaker 1: to hang our hats on. Again, you know, we need
16:49
Speaker 1: to look at the total situation that touch how they
16:51
Speaker 1: of the circumstances. If he was killed somewhere else and
16:54
Speaker 1: then moved, that could explain that. But also depending on
16:58
Speaker 1: the actual injury itself, a lot of times head injuries
17:01
Speaker 1: do bleed profusely, but again depending on the injury, it
17:06
Speaker 1: may bleed inside, and so we don't really know what
17:09
Speaker 1: was actually found. At the same here's a question that
17:13
Speaker 1: my producer Jackie has long had if the body. If
17:20
Speaker 1: Steven's body is left in the middle of the road
17:23
Speaker 1: really looking staged, of course that's not enough to go
17:26
Speaker 1: one of the fact that it looks stage wasn't left
17:29
Speaker 1: there with the intent that someone else would hit the body. Guys,
17:33
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wu CSC. Somebody
17:39
Speaker 1: out there knows something. It's July eighth, twenty fifteen. A
17:43
Speaker 1: driver on his way to work calls nine one to
17:46
Speaker 1: report a body lying in the middle of the street
17:49
Speaker 1: on Sandy Run Road. The victim turns out to be
17:52
Speaker 1: nineteen year old Stephen Smith, a shy team, but a
17:55
Speaker 1: funny and outgoing one to his inner circle. Smith was
17:59
Speaker 1: openly gay in the small rule, South Carolina town he
18:02
Speaker 1: grew up in. The blunt force trauma to his head
18:05
Speaker 1: appears as a possible gunshot wound to the first responders
18:08
Speaker 1: on the scene, but the coroner's office later rules his
18:11
Speaker 1: death a hit and run. He also has injuries to
18:14
Speaker 1: his left arm and left hand. So the first responder
18:18
Speaker 1: to you, Blair Sable, joining US investigative reporter for Live
18:22
Speaker 1: five News. The first responders thought, even shot in the head, Yeah,
18:27
Speaker 1: they actually did a gunshot residue test to follow up
18:31
Speaker 1: on that turns up wasn't the case. But that's how
18:34
Speaker 1: bad the injury were to his head is They literally
18:37
Speaker 1: thought he had been shot. When you say that's not
18:40
Speaker 1: the case, he mean there was no gunshot residue around
18:42
Speaker 1: the wound. No, he did not test positive fort residue. Okay,
18:46
Speaker 1: let's here more about the circumstances surrounding the discovery of
18:50
Speaker 1: his body from our friends at wc SC. Smith's carr
18:54
Speaker 1: was found about three miles away on Bamberg Highway. It
18:57
Speaker 1: won't start, but investigators find his wall inside the gas
19:01
Speaker 1: cap also unscrewed. His family reports he would have never
19:05
Speaker 1: left the car, calling him skittish, and his twin sister, Stephanie,
19:09
Speaker 1: also tells authorities that her brother had become very secretive
19:12
Speaker 1: about two weeks prior to the incident, and more. Documents
19:16
Speaker 1: show investigators fielding tips about the Murdoch family in the
19:19
Speaker 1: days and months following his death. The first tip comes
19:22
Speaker 1: in early August, suggesting swirling rumors of a relationship between
19:26
Speaker 1: Smith and Buster Murdoch Alec, Murdoch's eldest and now only
19:30
Speaker 1: surviving son. An investigator also feels a tip about another
19:34
Speaker 1: possible suspect, but that tipster tells them he passed along
19:38
Speaker 1: the information at the request of a well known family patriarch,
19:41
Speaker 1: former solicitor Randy Murdoch. Andrew says in the record she has,
19:46
Speaker 1: the Murdoch name is mentioned forty times. Where there's smoke,
19:49
Speaker 1: there's fire, there has to be something to it. Eventually,
19:54
Speaker 1: the leads dried up and the case went cold. Okay,
19:56
Speaker 1: by do you Blair, what do you? What is this about?
20:00
Speaker 1: Former solicitor Randy Murdoch. Now this is Alex Murdoch's brother.
20:04
Speaker 1: Information is passed along by Randy Murdoch. Essentially, in addition
20:08
Speaker 1: to the rumor that gets fielded by authorities about Buster
20:12
Speaker 1: being in a relationship with Stephen, there's also a tip
20:17
Speaker 1: that gets submitted to authorities about Randy Murdoch. I believe
20:24
Speaker 1: or one of the Murdochs telling someone to tell authorities
20:29
Speaker 1: about something, even though seemingly on the surface there's no
20:33
Speaker 1: release in between the Murdochs and the Smith Eric Bland,
20:36
Speaker 1: isn't it true that I believe it was Randy Murdoch
20:38
Speaker 1: coach Stephen Smith on a little league team on which
20:43
Speaker 1: Buster Murdock also played. Is that right? I believe there
20:46
Speaker 1: was some little league or youth baseball connection and they
20:51
Speaker 1: were classmates as well as far as yes, they were
20:54
Speaker 1: as far as Randy murdoch involvement. My understanding from a
21:01
Speaker 1: number of sources, and I know Sandy has said this
21:03
Speaker 1: on TV, so I'm not revealing attorney client privilege. She
21:07
Speaker 1: said that he had called her husband Joel on the
21:11
Speaker 1: phone and offered his services and maybe it had shown
21:16
Speaker 1: up at the accident scene, and then called Sandy later
21:19
Speaker 1: on in the morning the following morning and offered his
21:23
Speaker 1: services to represent You may represent the Stephen Smith family
21:28
Speaker 1: in a wrongful death case? Got it? Yes, I'm not
21:31
Speaker 1: saying he was trolling. I'm not going to use that
21:33
Speaker 1: word no, because that is unethical and disallowed under the
21:37
Speaker 1: attorney barrels. Blair Sable. What do we know about any
21:42
Speaker 1: of the Murdochs showing up at the crime at the
21:45
Speaker 1: scene of Stephen Smith's body being found but not noted
21:50
Speaker 1: in any of the investing unifiled. There's so many rumors
21:53
Speaker 1: swirling around this case, so right now, that's a rumor
21:56
Speaker 1: that we have yet to confirm. Guys, take a listen
21:59
Speaker 1: to more about skid marks about vehicle debris, were there
22:04
Speaker 1: any listen. More than seven years have passed since, and
22:07
Speaker 1: the mysterious details of his final hours have weighed on
22:09
Speaker 1: his mother, Sandy Smith, and the rest of the family.
22:13
Speaker 1: It's draining Susanna Andrews has become a close friend to
22:17
Speaker 1: them in their time of need. The family rejects the
22:20
Speaker 1: hit and run theory. South Carolina Highway Patrols initial investigation
22:23
Speaker 1: finds no vehicle debris, skid marks, or injuries consistent with
22:27
Speaker 1: someone being struck by a vehicle. A heated discussion between
22:31
Speaker 1: Trooper Todd Proctor and pathologist doctor Aaron Presnell reveals that
22:35
Speaker 1: the death was ruled this way because Smith was found
22:38
Speaker 1: in the road. Blue paint chips are found on Smith's clothes,
22:42
Speaker 1: but cannot be traced to a specific make or model. Okay,
22:46
Speaker 1: let me understand, doctor Michelle d pretty joining me from
22:48
Speaker 1: South Carolina. So the cood cause of death, vehicular homicide
22:54
Speaker 1: was because he was found in the road. Nancy, that's
22:58
Speaker 1: unheard of. Actually, we certainly don't base the cause of
23:01
Speaker 1: death on that. We base it on our finding and
23:04
Speaker 1: the autopsy and again the surrounding circumstances. I can't explain
23:09
Speaker 1: that is that true? Ery Bland. In the autopsy report,
23:12
Speaker 1: this cod vehicular homicide because he's found in the road.
23:16
Speaker 1: I mean if I set him up at the dining
23:18
Speaker 1: room table in your house, would they say he died
23:20
Speaker 1: of poisoning at high tea? I mean, that doesn't even
23:23
Speaker 1: make any sense, correct, And that also shaped the investigation,
23:27
Speaker 1: Nancy as doctor dupre Nos. The Highway Patrol investigated the death,
23:33
Speaker 1: and they don't have the resources that their mate department
23:36
Speaker 1: obviously thought it was a fatality of traffic fatality, but
23:40
Speaker 1: they don't have the resources. If it was deemed a
23:43
Speaker 1: homicide that didn't take place on the road, then it
23:45
Speaker 1: would be within Sledge jurisdiction. And we know that the
23:49
Speaker 1: resources that they have there are many FBI and so
23:52
Speaker 1: there was the conflict of who should who should be
23:55
Speaker 1: the investment of agency. And when you're having an that
23:58
Speaker 1: kind of conflict, a lot of things get lost in
24:01
Speaker 1: the shuffle. Okay, I'm trying to understand something. Area Bland,
24:04
Speaker 1: Where did you get your intel that a Murdoch showed
24:07
Speaker 1: up at the scene. Sandy Smith has said that on
24:10
Speaker 1: National TV. Jack, could you confirm that place? Randy Murdoh
24:13
Speaker 1: is not denied that. Ah okay, now let me ask you.
24:17
Speaker 1: Karen Start is joining me. We're now psychologist out of Manhattan,
24:22
Speaker 1: Prime and trauma expert. You can find her at Karenstart
24:25
Speaker 1: dot com. Karen with a C. Karen, I want you
24:28
Speaker 1: to take a Listen to Steven's mother. Listen. Oh my gosh,
24:34
Speaker 1: We've been waiting on this forever. Sandy Smith wakes up
24:38
Speaker 1: every morning thinking about her son Stephen and her years
24:41
Speaker 1: long search for answers. And they said he was shot
24:44
Speaker 1: in the hedge, and then it turned out it was
24:49
Speaker 1: a hit and run, and then he was beat up
24:50
Speaker 1: and showed a story just kept changing. Stephen Smith's body
24:54
Speaker 1: was found along Sandy Run Road in Hampton County in
24:57
Speaker 1: July of twenty fifteen. The official cause of death at
25:01
Speaker 1: the time was that Smith died of a hitting run.
25:04
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it, but he when they told
25:07
Speaker 1: me hitting run, I said, that's impossible because Stephen wouldn't
25:10
Speaker 1: have been walking in the road to start with. He
25:13
Speaker 1: would have cut through the woods, he would not have
25:15
Speaker 1: been in the highway. Time stories with Nancy Grace Karen
25:38
Speaker 1: Start psychologists joining us. Karen the other morning I came
25:43
Speaker 1: in the kitchen just before I hopped in the car
25:46
Speaker 1: to take the twins to school, and I went, WHOA,
25:49
Speaker 1: Lucy didn't I made John David's a breakfast. But Lucy
25:52
Speaker 1: likes to make her own organic breakfast, you know, like
25:55
Speaker 1: you might see it on a picture and Instagram. It's
25:58
Speaker 1: beautifully arranged. Me just slinging out so and scrambled egg
26:04
Speaker 1: is not going to work. So I walked in. I went, whooa,
26:06
Speaker 1: did Lucy not have breakfast? Where's the toaster? Because she
26:09
Speaker 1: always takes it out and gets her organic wheatbread and
26:12
Speaker 1: then puts egg whites and pesto on top of it
26:15
Speaker 1: and leaves all the stuff out, all the stuff to
26:18
Speaker 1: clean and put away, which is fine. She's in a hurry.
26:22
Speaker 1: And David said she put it away this morning because
26:26
Speaker 1: I asked her to see. I knew that something was
26:30
Speaker 1: wrong because every morning, God bless my little angel leaves
26:34
Speaker 1: her toaster for me to see. If somebody told me
26:38
Speaker 1: that my son, John David Lynch was out walking up
26:41
Speaker 1: and down I seventy five, I'm like, no, that did
26:43
Speaker 1: not happen. That's what the mother is saying. It's called
26:46
Speaker 1: routine evidence. I don't mean standard typical evidence. I mean
26:50
Speaker 1: evidence of a routine. She says, Stephen Smith, my son
26:55
Speaker 1: would not have been walking down the middle of this
26:57
Speaker 1: dark country road at night. He would have call somebody
27:00
Speaker 1: if he ran out of gas or to take the
27:02
Speaker 1: shortcut through the woods. This did not happen way in.
27:05
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, Well, I know it's not hard evidence, Nancy,
27:09
Speaker 1: but this is a mom, and as you said, moms
27:13
Speaker 1: mothers know their children, and that's pretty clear that if
27:18
Speaker 1: she's saying that her son would not have been walking
27:22
Speaker 1: down that road, and if you put that together with
27:24
Speaker 1: the fact that there's no glass, there's no he's in
27:27
Speaker 1: the middle of the road, and we all know that
27:30
Speaker 1: you get hit by a car, how do you wind
27:33
Speaker 1: up exactly in the middle of the road. And I
27:36
Speaker 1: just think it's suspicious that they originally said blonde trum
27:40
Speaker 1: of course, and then all of a sudden it gets
27:43
Speaker 1: changed to a hit and run. And we know that
27:46
Speaker 1: this family has done a lot to change the rulings too.
27:51
Speaker 1: They did a lot of nefarious things when it came
27:53
Speaker 1: to cases. So I think we have to trust the
27:57
Speaker 1: instincts seriously of this mother who really knows her son Hey,
28:01
Speaker 1: you were hearing our friends at WYFF. Take a listen
28:04
Speaker 1: to Katie Beck. Sandy Smith has been pushing for answers
28:08
Speaker 1: in the death of her son, Stephen. The nineteen year
28:11
Speaker 1: old was found dead in twenty fifteen in what state
28:14
Speaker 1: investigators originally called a hit and run on a rural
28:18
Speaker 1: road in Hampton County, South Carolina. As a mother, there's
28:21
Speaker 1: questions that I need to ask, and there's questions I
28:25
Speaker 1: need answers to. Smith believes the initial findings may have
28:29
Speaker 1: been wrong and that someone murdered her son and staged
28:33
Speaker 1: it to look like an accident. It's a case that's
28:36
Speaker 1: never been solved, but as authorities looked into the murders
28:39
Speaker 1: of Maggie and Paul Murdoch, they say information came to light,
28:43
Speaker 1: prompting them to reopen Smith's investigation. To Blair Sabal joining
28:47
Speaker 1: us from Live five News, number one, what are the
28:51
Speaker 1: belief specs on Stephen Smith's body? And number two, what
28:58
Speaker 1: do you believe was found in the double murder investigation
29:02
Speaker 1: of Alex Murdog's wife and son, Maggie Paul that led
29:06
Speaker 1: to the reopening of Steven Smith's case. Sure, and Nancy,
29:09
Speaker 1: that's that's a great question and something I think not
29:12
Speaker 1: just myself is wondering, but everyone has been asking since
29:16
Speaker 1: that trial ended. But to your first question, I mean,
29:20
Speaker 1: it's really what are the police thing? They're not saying
29:24
Speaker 1: anything at this point. The only word we've gotten from
29:27
Speaker 1: FLED is active and ongoing, and there have been no
29:33
Speaker 1: information about what exactly was that piece of information that
29:38
Speaker 1: reopened it takes. What about the blue specs on his body?
29:41
Speaker 1: Do we know what they were? I believe the investigative
29:43
Speaker 1: documents alluded to those being paint hips, and there was
29:48
Speaker 1: an attempt buy investigators to try and match that to
29:52
Speaker 1: a specific make and model, but they never conclusively was
29:57
Speaker 1: able to what that was. Okay, that's total b asked
30:01
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh. Yes, and so something to consider here is
30:06
Speaker 1: if this if there's a secondary crime scene somewhere, talk
30:10
Speaker 1: fine English. You're not talking to a bunch of detectives.
30:14
Speaker 1: The NYPD got it, got it. So if there's another
30:17
Speaker 1: place where these injuries occurred, then the first thing to
30:22
Speaker 1: consider is the type of weapon. If a baseball bat
30:26
Speaker 1: is utilized, those specs of paint could be coming from
30:30
Speaker 1: that particular weapon. So that is one consideration. I mean, mcdonna, guys,
30:37
Speaker 1: send the chips to Quantico. They can tell you and
30:41
Speaker 1: one glance again, I'm looking down like I'm looking through
30:45
Speaker 1: a microscope. There are there's a fleet of scientists at Quantico.
30:51
Speaker 1: They can say, oh, that's off a car, that's off
30:53
Speaker 1: a baseball bat. Guys were talking about microscopic specs. These
30:57
Speaker 1: are not like big paint chips where you can say, oh, yeah,
30:59
Speaker 1: that's definitely a paint hip. We don't know what they are.
31:03
Speaker 1: And the only way to tell that. I mean, you're
31:06
Speaker 1: going to go in a wild goose chase if you're
31:08
Speaker 1: trying to match up to a car and it's actually
31:10
Speaker 1: from baseball bat. As Chris mcdonnah has pointed out. So
31:13
Speaker 1: what's the deal, Eric Bland, Why can't we get the
31:16
Speaker 1: paint hips whatever they are? The specs tested? Well, I mean, look,
31:20
Speaker 1: you certainly have been on Creton side. So would you
31:24
Speaker 1: release information on your investigation? Huble l No, And I
31:30
Speaker 1: know you're talking about Creton Waters, a lead prosecutor in
31:33
Speaker 1: the y case. So you're saying we don't know yet,
31:36
Speaker 1: you don't know if it's been sent off for testing.
31:38
Speaker 1: What is the fancy? Was it phone evidence that they
31:42
Speaker 1: found during the investigation of the Myrtle murders. Was there
31:46
Speaker 1: something on someone's phone that we don't know that instigating
31:51
Speaker 1: cause for them to reopen the investigation? And we don't
31:54
Speaker 1: know what the grand jury has done. We know that
31:58
Speaker 1: they are no longer in panel. You don't even know
32:00
Speaker 1: what they've done over the previous two years. Well, let's
32:03
Speaker 1: just think this whole thing through. Could have been cell
32:05
Speaker 1: phone data, right that was uncovered during the investigation because
32:09
Speaker 1: they probably looked at There was also a laptop recovered
32:13
Speaker 1: from Paul's room. Is this doctor Dupree? It is there
32:17
Speaker 1: was a laptop recover from Paul's room. Are you sure
32:20
Speaker 1: Paul's room? You may be right about this and speaking
32:27
Speaker 1: because it could be cell data, It could be information
32:31
Speaker 1: from Paul's laptop. It could be as they're speaking to
32:34
Speaker 1: potential witnesses in the double murder trial that someone mentioned
32:39
Speaker 1: something about the Stephen Smith trial. I mean, do you
32:41
Speaker 1: see how connected the double murder trial was to the
32:46
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach case. Why do we assume there was no
32:50
Speaker 1: similar connection to the Stephen Smith case. Now much has
32:55
Speaker 1: been made about a an alleged relationship between the surviving
33:01
Speaker 1: Murdoch's son, Buster Murdog, and the deceased teen Steven Smith.
33:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut Tian. This is Anne McGill,
33:10
Speaker 1: his mother launching her own private investigation into her son's death.
33:15
Speaker 1: Smith was found dead in the middle of Sandy Run
33:17
Speaker 1: Road from a supposed hidden run. His mother, Sandy, doesn't
33:21
Speaker 1: believe that's the truth. Stephen was an openly gay teen
33:24
Speaker 1: in rural Collinin County. In Rule Hampton County lawyers Eric
33:28
Speaker 1: Bland and Ronnie Richter, the family lawyers, say they've already
33:32
Speaker 1: raised more than sixty five thousand dollars to exhume Steven's body.
33:36
Speaker 1: They need court permission before that process can begin. And
33:39
Speaker 1: take a listen to Katie Beck in Our cut seven.
33:43
Speaker 1: Smith's death has also received renewed attention from a recent
33:47
Speaker 1: Netflix docuseriies about the Murdoch murders and other cases with
33:51
Speaker 1: potential ties to the once prominent family. In multiple interviews,
33:56
Speaker 1: locals discussed rumors of an alleged relationship but en Stephen
34:00
Speaker 1: and Buster Murdoch. There are so many rumors swirling around
34:04
Speaker 1: that Buster and Stephen were intimate together. Being gay in
34:09
Speaker 1: the Murdoch family would have been looked down upon, and
34:13
Speaker 1: as in the wake of all of these allegations swirling,
34:18
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cutnight. Buster Murdoch has never
34:22
Speaker 1: been charged with any crime in the case, and for
34:25
Speaker 1: the first time this morning, he's denying any involvement, telling
34:30
Speaker 1: NBC News exclusively in a statement, I've tried my best
34:34
Speaker 1: to ignore the vicious rumors about my involvement in Stephen
34:37
Speaker 1: Smith's tragic death that continue to be published in the
34:41
Speaker 1: media as I grieve over the brutal murders of my
34:43
Speaker 1: mother and brother. I love them so much and miss
34:47
Speaker 1: them terribly. Buster Murdoch, who took this stand in his
34:49
Speaker 1: father's trial, adding these baseless rumors of my involvement with
34:54
Speaker 1: Stephen and his death are false. I unequivocally deny any
34:58
Speaker 1: involvement in his death. My heart goes out to the
35:01
Speaker 1: Smith family. Okay, to you Eric Bland, who is helping
35:05
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's mother, Sandy in her process. As you just heard,
35:10
Speaker 1: she's already raised nearly seventy thousand dollars on her own
35:14
Speaker 1: on a go fund Me, and Bland is helping her
35:18
Speaker 1: navigate the legal system. You've got to have a court
35:21
Speaker 1: order to exhume a body just can't go down to
35:24
Speaker 1: the cemetery and start digging. Doesn't work like that. That
35:27
Speaker 1: is tampering with the corpse. So she's got to go
35:30
Speaker 1: through legal channels to make it happen. Eric Bland, Now
35:33
Speaker 1: Buster murdog is speaking out denying any connection to Stephen Smith,
35:38
Speaker 1: or at least a connection that's been alleged in that
35:40
Speaker 1: being that they're in a relationship. Did he speak too soon?
35:43
Speaker 1: Should he have broken his silence? I can't advise him
35:47
Speaker 1: on what he should have done at this point. I
35:50
Speaker 1: don't know that there's any connection with Buster murdole. And
35:53
Speaker 1: so at this point, Buster's trying to grieve the loss
35:57
Speaker 1: of his mother and his brother, and I guess come
35:59
Speaker 1: to grips with the act of as father's a you
36:01
Speaker 1: know a man, you know, a heinous murderer that's going
36:06
Speaker 1: to be serving life, double life without parole. I don't
36:09
Speaker 1: have any knowledge of any connection between Buster and Stephen Smith.
36:16
Speaker 1: My job is to get this body exhumed, hire people
36:20
Speaker 1: that can tell me what happened, and then if there
36:23
Speaker 1: is that secondary accident instancing as Chris talked about, then
36:30
Speaker 1: facts will take care of themselves and the matter will
36:33
Speaker 1: progress and I'll put it in law enforcement hands. I
36:36
Speaker 1: want to work with law enforcement. I want to give
36:39
Speaker 1: them everything we got that we obtained. I don't expect
36:43
Speaker 1: that they're going to share with what they have, and
36:45
Speaker 1: if we have enough information that they should go forward,
36:49
Speaker 1: the facts are going to go where they go. I'm
36:51
Speaker 1: not going to sit here though, and impugne buster myrtle
36:54
Speaker 1: without any evidence. I just don't. I don't have it well.
36:57
Speaker 1: First of all, saying that someone is gay is not
37:01
Speaker 1: impugning them because being gay, last I checked, is not
37:06
Speaker 1: a crime number one, but number two, there's no evidence
37:12
Speaker 1: that that's true other than you know, rumors and gossip.
37:17
Speaker 1: I could every time I walked into or around the
37:20
Speaker 1: Carleton County Courthouse, I would be besieged by different people,
37:25
Speaker 1: not necessarily court personnel, no, but people that were interested
37:29
Speaker 1: in the case. And we're saying this. That doesn't make
37:33
Speaker 1: it true. That is not allowed in a courtroom. In fact,
37:38
Speaker 1: if you try to bring in some allegation like that,
37:42
Speaker 1: some claim and it's shown to be false, then you're
37:46
Speaker 1: the idiot for trying to bring in false information. And
37:49
Speaker 1: it goes so far to you know what, take a
37:51
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twelve our friends at WCSC. The
37:56
Speaker 1: son of convicted murderer Alec Murdoch, has made a statement
37:59
Speaker 1: for the first time regarding the twenty fifteen death of
38:02
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith. A statement this morning from Buster Murdoch reads,
38:06
Speaker 1: I unequivocally deny any involvement in his death, and my
38:10
Speaker 1: heart goes out to the Smith family. This comes after
38:12
Speaker 1: the death of nineteen year old Stephen Smith, who authorities
38:16
Speaker 1: say was hidden killed by a vehicle just fifteen miles
38:18
Speaker 1: from the Murdoch's home. Murdoch asked that his name they
38:21
Speaker 1: removed from media coverage of Smith's death, as he has
38:24
Speaker 1: not officially been connected to that case. Now we saw
38:28
Speaker 1: at trial when Alex Murdoch had told a lie about
38:34
Speaker 1: being in the kennels at the time or just before
38:36
Speaker 1: the time of the murtyrs. That was his undoing. I'm
38:39
Speaker 1: telling you that line when he took the stand was
38:42
Speaker 1: his undoing. Many people would argue that Buster should not
38:46
Speaker 1: speak out. Well, he has. He was a classmate of
38:50
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's. I believe they played on a baseball team together,
38:53
Speaker 1: he says. That is the end of his knowledge of
38:56
Speaker 1: this case. Nancy, let me get me, let me short
38:59
Speaker 1: circuit for you. Yes they are. They're itching for a
39:02
Speaker 1: defamation trial. The Murdochs and Buster are itching for some
39:07
Speaker 1: kind of defamation charge to be brought, a complaint against
39:11
Speaker 1: someone who is going to say something about Buster that
39:15
Speaker 1: may impugne his character. Take a listen to this. Smith's
39:19
Speaker 1: death has also received renewed attention from a recent Netflix
39:23
Speaker 1: docuse series about the Murdoch murders and other cases with
39:27
Speaker 1: potential ties to the once prominent family. In multiple interviews,
39:31
Speaker 1: locals discussed rumors of an alleged relationship between Stephen and
39:36
Speaker 1: Buster Murdoch. There are so many rumors swirling around that
39:40
Speaker 1: Buster and Stephen were intimate together. Being gay in the
39:44
Speaker 1: Murdoch family would have been looked down upon and more.
39:48
Speaker 1: Buster Murdoch has never been charged with any crime in
39:52
Speaker 1: the case, and for the first time this morning, he's
39:55
Speaker 1: denying any involvement, telling NBC News exclusively in his statement,
40:00
Speaker 1: I've tried my best to ignore the vicious rumors about
40:03
Speaker 1: my involvement in Stephen Smith's tragic death that continue to
40:08
Speaker 1: be published in the media as I grieve over the
40:10
Speaker 1: brutal murders of my mother and brother. I love them
40:13
Speaker 1: so much. And miss them terribly. Buster Murdoch, who took
40:17
Speaker 1: this stand in his father's trial, adding these baseless rumors
40:21
Speaker 1: of my involvement with Stephen and his death are false.
40:24
Speaker 1: I unequivocally deny any involvement in his death, and my
40:28
Speaker 1: heart goes out to the Smith family. Well, let's just
40:31
Speaker 1: fix that right now. There is no evidence that Stephen
40:35
Speaker 1: Smith was in a relationship with Buster Mardog. And while
40:40
Speaker 1: he's grieving the murder of his mother and his brother,
40:44
Speaker 1: now he feels he's got to defend himself in another case.
40:47
Speaker 1: Let's just do one thing at a time. Let's get
40:50
Speaker 1: the body exhumed, Let's find the true cause of death,
40:53
Speaker 1: and then move forward and leave Buster Murdog alone. Ronnie
40:59
Speaker 1: Rictor just keep thinking about Steven Smith's mother, Sandy Dandy Smith.
41:05
Speaker 1: You might imagine this is a mother grieving looking for answers.
41:10
Speaker 1: She was told eight years ago that her son was
41:12
Speaker 1: killed in a hit and run, and everything inside of
41:14
Speaker 1: her told her that was not true. And so after
41:17
Speaker 1: eight years, finally to get a call from the state's
41:19
Speaker 1: top cop to say, we believe in you, we believe
41:23
Speaker 1: in this case, and we're devoted to getting to the truth.
41:26
Speaker 1: Of what happened to your son. It was a seminal
41:29
Speaker 1: moment for Sandy Smith. She is elated, she's reassured, and
41:34
Speaker 1: she's reinvigorated to see that justice is finally done for Stephen.
41:39
Speaker 1: Ronnie racked her. Let me understand, what is the what
41:44
Speaker 1: will the progression of the Stephen Smith case be? Now? Well,
41:49
Speaker 1: we don't control what FLED is doing, but we do
41:51
Speaker 1: control what we're doing, and we intend fully to go
41:53
Speaker 1: forward with the exclamation of Stephen's body, to have that
41:57
Speaker 1: independent autops he'd done that we've talked about, to answer
42:01
Speaker 1: the first question, which is the first domino, which is
42:03
Speaker 1: what what happened to Stephen Smith. It's only after we
42:07
Speaker 1: get past that first domino that we could start looking
42:10
Speaker 1: at the other dominoes like who who did this to Stephen?
42:15
Speaker 1: And then the most important domino of all, why why
42:18
Speaker 1: would somebody do this to Sandy Smith's beautiful son. So
42:24
Speaker 1: that's the that's the priority for us. We're devoted to
42:27
Speaker 1: see those questions to the end. Guys with us Ronnie Richter,
42:32
Speaker 1: partner in Bland Richter, their law firm, has taken it
42:36
Speaker 1: upon themselves pro bono to help Stephen Smith's family in
42:40
Speaker 1: their search for the truth about what happened to Sandy's
42:45
Speaker 1: son Stephen. I mean, wouldn't you want to know? Can
42:48
Speaker 1: you imagine all these years being tortured with the belief
42:52
Speaker 1: that the true cause of his death had been covered up?
42:56
Speaker 1: Back to you, Ronnie Richter, again, thank you for being
42:58
Speaker 1: with us. How soon do you think the exhimation can
43:02
Speaker 1: take place? You still have to get court permission. It's
43:06
Speaker 1: going to be a process, and that process starts with
43:08
Speaker 1: coordinating through a local funeral home that petitions the coroner's
43:13
Speaker 1: office for a permit for the disinterment, the transportation and
43:17
Speaker 1: the reinterment of a body. Now, the coroner's office is
43:21
Speaker 1: unwilling to issue that permit. The court is a backstop,
43:24
Speaker 1: and we'd had the ability to go to court and
43:25
Speaker 1: get a court order directing it. Now, once we have
43:30
Speaker 1: that permit in hand, the process is having Steven's body
43:34
Speaker 1: transported to the ultimate location where this autopics is going
43:38
Speaker 1: to take place. And I can tell you that we've
43:40
Speaker 1: been We've been blessed to be reached out to by
43:44
Speaker 1: local and national experts who've done this before. And our
43:47
Speaker 1: job right now is depict the very best team possible.
43:51
Speaker 1: I don't care where in the country we have to
43:52
Speaker 1: send this body, but we're going to have it done right,
43:55
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have it done right the first time
43:57
Speaker 1: we wait as justice some folt. Goodby,