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Empathy in Servant Leadership with Paul Gunn · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Everyone.
• 0:36
  It's Roxanne Derhodge of Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:39
  Thanks for tuning in again today.
• 0:41
  I have, Mister Paul Gunn, Hi, Paul.
• 0:44
  How are you doing today?
• 0:46
  I'm doing well.
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  Thanks a lot for having me.
• 0:48
  Thanks for being on.
• 0:49
  So Paul is Paul and I, recently across paths because we both, executive contributors to
• 0:59
  Forbes Magazine.
• 1:00
  And, Paul is a CEO of co op, corp, and, I ran across him because, you know, he had written
• 1:09
  this fantastically psychiatical, that really kind of struck me around empathy.
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  And as, as you know, I talk a lot about authentic leadership leading from the heart not
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  focusing on the bottom line, but to focus on on relationships.
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  And when I saw, this piece by Paul, I already thought I I'd like to chat with him and see
• 1:28
  what he's all about.
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  So we reached out and we had a little bit of a chit chat and realized that, he would be well
• 1:34
  he would come on my podcast and we could have this conversation.
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  So let me tell you a little bit about him.
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  Most of the bio will be in the in the, show notes so you can read further.
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  He's developed a career around procurement, logistics, and supply chain, and he's skilled
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  in, with domain, with proven results as evidenced by the firms he's owned, and by
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  stellar dip delivery performance records of each firm.
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  He has, as a leading as a leading role in the firms he's owned, he's a servant leader.
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  And what he's done is he's led the former led one of the his former firm's largest quality
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  management system implementations and certifications.
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  For multimillion dollar sis systems.
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  So statements, maintenance programs for highly visible, DOD and users.
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  I don't know what d d DOD is, Paul.
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  What is DOD?
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  It's the Department of Defense here
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  in United States.
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  So for anybody in defense, she's thinking, well, she really doesn't know defense and it's
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  so true.
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  Is previous form was listed as one of, ink's fast growing private of the health firms at
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  number 67.
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  Mr.
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  Gunn has hold, a batch of Arts in sociology.
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  Oh, okay.
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  From Georgia State University, and I'm an MBA from the University of Phoenix, and he's the
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  founder of Water Tusk Corporation.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  So that's, you know, can I say that I've really, you know, not have not met any people
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  in defense?
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  And, so I was intrigued, especially when you wrote about empathy.
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  And but let's start with you and kinda who is Mister Paul Gunn and kinda what your path has
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  been, and we'll talk a little bit about, you in leadership.
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  So tell me a little bit about you.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, thanks, Roxanne.
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  A lot well, a little bit about me.
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  I'm a kinda guy.
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  A lot of the stuff I do is based on empathy.
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  My brother and I started the last company when he came back from war in 2006, and we got
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  together and said, hey.
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  Let's go ahead and try and do something together.
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  And that was part that previous firm.
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  So we had success doing it and having this leadership style with working with vendors and
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  customers based on empathy.
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  And and it proved itself to really work.
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  We were walking in an industry that it's not really necessarily known to always work from
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  that standard.
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  So after having success with that company, we transferred these same skill sets over from
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  starting in this new company here, and it's been replicated for having a lot of success for
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  us.
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  It it's a passion that I live by, and, ultimately, we're trying to help the war
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  fighters get home.
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  When my brother was over there, There was a lot of times we were hearing different things, and
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  you need good people and good supply chains to help our war fighters get home and allies of my
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  passion really is driven based on all the different family members that have service,
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  member serving, whether it's in the Navy army, Air Force, whatever they're doing to help that.
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  They have every day I wake up where I'm feeling tired.
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  Sad or whatever's going on.
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  I know somebody's out there who needs to get this material and some family member who's
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  hoping that they have what they need to get home.
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  It's it's a great honor, and I take it real seriously.
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  But a lot of the actions that helped me succeed in doing that are founded on the Incon is
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  ultimately focusing on that purpose to get our warfighter home.
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  So did you grow up in a military family?
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  My dad was Air Force, then he and some of my different, uncles and cousins are as well.
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  So from a for a large part, they are.
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  So you really understand that whole concept of going out there and what it takes.
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  And and like you said, you're you're you weren't were you in the war, or was your
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  brother
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  No.
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  I wanted to go after into the officer, but I wasn't given the access to get in there.
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  I I think it was the had plantar fasciitis in my foot.
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  So that was what was denied when when it as an officer.
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  So all the time when he was out, That's the biggest piece I was looking for.
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  I just wanted my brother to be safe.
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  And what is it gonna take for him to get home?
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  So when he came back, that really was the mission, say, how can we help and work together
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  so we can help others and his and that we're feeling the same way I was and and she's just
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  taking off.
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  So you I mean, obviously, as a family member or or growing up in a family, that you know, with
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  the military, you you understand, you know, you think I think of all the things that your
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  family has to go through.
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  When your brother's there, there and, you know, you're worried.
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  I would think I've never had a sibling that's been in that situation, but I would think that
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  when you kind of think of your role, right, and making sure that you said people get home,
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  how do
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  you think that through?
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  Right?
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  Because I'm thinking if my brother's away, and I'm worried and, you know, he's probably got a
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  family and your mom and dad and, you know, all that.
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  That's that's a lot of emotion.
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  That's wrapped around what you do for living.
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  Right?
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  It's not just about, you know, A plus B equals C, which is, you know, kind of the supply
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  chain.
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  It's you're you're thinking about it from a different depth.
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  Yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  So sometimes you wanna go out and what will happen is in a normal situation or
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  circumstances where I may have laid back and said, fine.
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  I'll just let this be.
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  You actually have to go in and push harder and have a vendor understand.
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  Look.
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  I understand this is not the normal way you're doing it, but what this is, it requires people
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  to get home.
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  So can you put a side your personal feelings or however you may do different policy and make an
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  exception here.
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  Because other than this, you choosing to not wanna work with me based on a formula, a
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  procedure, or a policy is not going to help.
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  I am the messenger in this situation.
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  That's trying to get other people home.
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  So there's certain circumstances I'm putting where you have to move to the forefront and get
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  people to really align with the greater good for getting the war fighter home.
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  And I'm speaking usually in that position, from experience having been on the other lines.
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  I just want my brother home.
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  I want my family member home.
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  And I know there's plenty of other people who have honor and respect for our military and no
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  serving that they feel the same way.
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  So you it it's it's deeper.
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  Right?
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  Like, so it's not it's not it's not an it's an outcome, but really the outcome is to get
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  people safely home
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  Yes.
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  With certain things that they might need.
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  So give me an example of something, you know, that you've kind of, like, a story you
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  remember, like, when you were trying to kind of land something.
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  I because I I so
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  I, yeah, I could speak to that there.
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  There was a time interesting.
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  We we had a project where we to do, and the recipient of that project was on one of those
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  different items.
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  And he had once they got back, they were helping us set up our Comcast in the house.
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  So I was we got to talk, and he was explaining.
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  He was a marine.
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  I said, oh, yeah.
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  My brother was a marine.
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  Said, oh, well, thanks.
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  And then he asked kind of what we did.
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  So I explained.
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  He's and when it got down to what we were supporting that they were actually in, and he
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  went on for 5 minutes just over and over.
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  I was in that that saved my life.
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  I just wanna thank you.
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  Thank you.
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  Thank you.
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  And here I am thinking I'm calling in to just set up Comcast, and the guy goes on for 5
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  minutes.
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  Of ultimate dates because said he wouldn't have been home.
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  Had we not done what was necessary to either get those parts to him?
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  And there, it just further pointed out, these things matter when you're ordering and
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  supporting the government because there is a a direct recipient who sat in what was involved,
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  what we were part of, and it just it really touched my heart to say, see, this is exactly
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  what I was feeling.
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  This guy is talking to me from it had he not been in that.
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  He wanted to have his life set.
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  So it's ready.
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  You you look at the impact on people's lives.
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  So let's you know, because there's one thing is that if you need a particular part and I I know
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  nothing about these parts, but Paul, so stop me anytime before I sound really silly.
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  But you're not looking at it as set say you're looking at it as overall how can I fit and, and
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  meet the need to the best in my capacity to be able to get what's needed to get people home
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  safely, and you're trying to do that in a kind, empathetic way?
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  Yes.
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  Because I said sometimes people will be straightforward.
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  They'll be like, well, I'm just not gonna do this, and you'll have to make a connection to
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  someone who I do have a relationship with.
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  But when it does present self to have that.
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  I'm going in and having these conversations and making connections based on a genuine desire to
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  1, connect to understand, and 2, how is it gonna help someone other than myself?
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  And what seems to happen, people will align with their purpose on wanting to help others
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  get home.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  They can have all the material they need and still be in situations that aren't gonna save
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  their lives.
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  But if they have what they need, you're giving them a better chance to get home, and that is
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  that purpose.
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  I mean, nothing's completely safe in this world, but why send someone where they
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  shouldn't be without the things they need.
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  So in doing that, most of my position on a desire to connect with people anyway is based
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  on helping someone else first than it is helping myself.
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  And and that usually is well received.
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  It hasn't always been.
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  But it usually is.
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  Yeah.
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  Some people just it doesn't matter what you do or say to them.
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  It's just to some people.
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  Right?
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  It's like, what is the price point that's what I'm gonna stick to, and they don't make the
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  connection between the outcome that they're looking for and maybe the back end of the
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  house, which is, getting that maybe that plane of safely or they're just looking at price and
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  you're looking at it as overall getting these families, these men or women back home so that
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  they can reintegrate back it with their families.
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  So what I hear a lot is about your deep value for the connection, that you that you wanna
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  create, not just, while I'm sending these particular parts at this particular point, to
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  wherever you're in day needed in the world, you're looking at how do we do it fairly?
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  Yes.
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  And in in the kindest way possible.
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  But, of course, you're also running a business at the same time.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  So you have to be competitive, but it's not all about price.
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  Yes.
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  And sometimes that's collaboration.
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  Sometimes if it goes and gets out to a point where price doesn't always make sense, people
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  are always looking for the most part in business.
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  If an opportunity fits that makes sense for them, sometimes that's collaborating with them
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  or in reducing to them to somebody who aligns with their values for where they're going.
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  So if you're going into genuinely under spend people and offer help to them.
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  That is well received.
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  They may not work with you or assist you on that current goal to help I'm doing, but you're
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  coming to the table with something towards them.
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  And it's not see, that's where I think people get that confused.
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  Well, they're gonna do it to get something in return.
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  It has to genuine where you're coming in.
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  I'm going to help you whether you choose to help me or not.
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  That is received different than I'm gonna do this because I want something from you, and I
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  feel people can since that out.
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  And quite frankly, if you do it, people are looking for it and go to say, well, what does
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  he want?
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  And when it's received as he's drew or she's doing it, because she genuinely is looking to
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  help.
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  That, for the most part, has been why I feel we've had success or we've built relationships
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  because we usually won't ask for things in return for ourselves.
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  It's for something greater than what we're doing.
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  Bigger purpose, in in people's lives.
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  Now tell me at the level that you're at and what does empathy and business mean to you?
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  So I it was interesting.
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  There's an art there's a research paper.
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  I would love to send it to you.
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  It was from Cambridge University and what they were talking about sales people.
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  There's cognitive, empathy and then emotional empathy.
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  And then, like, the the revenue can be driven in 2 different direction.
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  It's a wonderful paper to really remember it did that.
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  They really it's the first of its kind.
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  So cognitive empathy really is trying to understand from the way I took it.
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  It's trying to understand your customer, how you can help them and make those decisions
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  based on that because when you use emotion and did emotional empathy, you're gonna hold while
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  they feel this.
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  They feel that way.
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  You can make a when they test it, you can make a bad decision based on how they feel.
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  But if you're using how they feel and how to respond on the cognitive on how you're thinking
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  to make the right decision best for them, you're gonna have increased revenue in sales.
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  So to me, empathy and business basically means, how can I help this person and My genuine
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  desire to wanna work with them, give them a good product, help them, whether it's now or
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  down the future?
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  And I'm not looking for a one transaction.
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  It is looking for a long term customer long term relationship business wise because those
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  not or over time.
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  People move, people transition.
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  And wherever they go, those relationships stick.
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  And I'm gonna I'm gonna assume, Paul, that in your industry, it it's not that big.
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  Is it?
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  It's like your like, is it a smaller subset of people that are suppliers to the military?
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  Or is there lots of companies competing for your business with Kuog?
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  There's a there's a there's a fair amount, but we've kind of found the tweaks by in our space.
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  There's a lot of service base.
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  There's a lot of product base.
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  You just have to know where in that you fit, but I think indirectly, commercial companies
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  support defense companies one way or the other, even if they're five levels down.
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  They're supporting them, but for the most part, when a government opportunity does come out,
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  you will have competition.
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  You will have it in this space because there's a tendency to to work with certain firms.
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  That are already in there.
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  Okay.
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  To kinda with the incumbent versus looking elsewhere, kinda, So, you know, at your level,
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  you know, for you to speak at this level, I think oftentimes we don't expect leaders you
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  know, to be talking that way.
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  So I think sometimes we We assume that leaders are very they're not as empathetic.
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  Like, we kind of think of leaders and senior leadership teams as being metric driven.
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  Right, outcome based.
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  And, you know, this connection between, like you said, the emotional and the cognitive,
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  oftentimes CEOs get looked at as they don't understand the feelings associated with what's
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  needing by their employee base.
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  Would you agree that a lot of CEOs are like that, or would you say that a lot of CEOs or,
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  senior teams that you you've been involved with understand the things that we're discussing
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  around empathy?
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  I would I would say prior to COVID, it was limited.
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  And I it it seems since after it's opening people up to have a human, so I wouldn't say
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  not all things like that.
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  And probably the vast majority don't, especially when you get up to them.
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  The large very large businesses.
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  So but in from my experience and in my interactions, the ones that do, you make very
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  good connections with.
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  But, yes, for the most part, it up until then, they were few and far between.
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  Yeah.
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  So now
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  I know the average person now is wanting they're looking behind the house to to they're
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  looking to see companies are living the values that are in alignment within the consumer.
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  We're we're seeing that a lot more.
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  Right?
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  Like, people are wanting to buy more local.
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  Like, I'm here in Niagara Falls, Ontario.
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  I don't know if if you know where that is.
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  Like, you
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  can see it.
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  And people are wanting to be more localized now.
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  Since the pandemic, or if they are dealing with a a bigger company, they wanna make sure that
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  that company has the same kind of values with with them in, you know, compared to, like you
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  said, prior to pandemic, it didn't matter.
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  And now people are wanting to trust or experience trust with the companies that
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  they're dealing with a lot more.
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  So I think you're you're really, really right with that.
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  So now I would say that a lot of senior leadership teams and senior leaders are having
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  to think, well, if we weren't kind of being perceived as trusting, what is it that we have
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  to do?
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  To change the projection of what'll help people perceive us out there.
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  Yes.
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  And see, so that gets back to that old theory of why don't you do it when the times are good?
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  So what's gonna happen now?
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  Are you gonna change because your customers are doing it?
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  Or are you gonna change because that's the real premise from what's at the court?
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  And this is where I say customers and consumers are gonna weed them out because now they're
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  looking for it.
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  So it better be something that you mean and genuine, or else they're gonna call you out.
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  This is a social media area, they will call you out.
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  So I feel like it's good and is moving in the right direction because they're at least
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  asking.
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  So if they're starting to ask, they're gonna start to put the right things in place, and
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  people are holding each other accountable and will move towards that.
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  For sure.
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  How can leaders at your level be become more pathetic?
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  What kind of things?
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  If you list if you're, you know, there's people listening and saying, oh, yeah, Mister Gunn,
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  you're in a different sector or whatever.
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  You don't understand our industry.
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  What would you say for some leaders that maybe are starting to listen and realize that they
• 20:34
  maybe have to shift and increase their empathy.
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  What are some basic things you would say to those leaders that are maybe listening?
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  I'm not sure.
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  How to kind of approach this?
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  I would say, listen to their team.
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  That is the biggest thing you first start by listening as they always say, you have two ears
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  and one mouth.
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  There's somebody sitting and somebody CEO room, boardroom that's quiet that never says anything
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  that probably has an idea that can shift the company into the right trajectory, but nobody's
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  gonna ask them.
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  They're gonna continue to overlook.
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  There are quite proficient team members that have ideas but nobody speaks up because no one
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  genuinely asks or they're fearful of the next level above them.
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  They're gonna either lose their job or outside.
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  And if a leader steps up and shows, I want to hear from my team removing the titles because
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  I'm focused on the ideas that can be brought.
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  It is gonna allow those other team members to step up and feel this is a safe environment.
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  For me to be able to speak and not worry about my position.
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  And from the top or the next level being seeking to remove me because I ask a question
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  that may be perceived that the next level person didn't think of before them.
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  It has to start with a leader opening up and really meaning that.
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  For sure.
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  So it has to start there.
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  So you you're already said that, the reason one of the reasons you talked about about being in
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  pathetic in business is that What it does is it opens doors and the doors that it doesn't open,
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  it doesn't matter.
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  What else is important?
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  Why why is empathy What are some of the other reasons why empathy is important in business?
• 22:25
  Well, I feel it's important because if for example, you give the loans where that some of
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  the doors won't open, I would say those on that side are being empath.
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  And they tell you they're not gonna open it.
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  They're using why this product is what we do.
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  This is our process.
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  This is why we believe in it.
• 22:41
  However, most of those people will say a, however, we can have opportunities here.
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  And when you just don't approach them from saying, Well, fine.
• 22:49
  The deal's over and done.
• 22:50
  I'm gonna leave it.
• 22:51
  When you look at ways you either ask them, well, how can I help you somewhere else?
• 22:55
  If it's not here, I didn't rent on this deal, can we do to help?
• 23:00
  There's you build a relationship there, and what happens is it may not be right away.
• 23:04
  It's down the road.
• 23:05
  You're gonna find something that helps them.
• 23:08
  So if your desire to be empathetic, it's truly there to help, and you're approaching it from a
• 23:13
  collaboration in mind, whether it's now or down the road, you may help somebody else build
• 23:20
  their business or build that line that then in turns becomes an ally for you 12 months, 2
• 23:26
  years down the road, and remember the fact you helped make a connection that wasn't there
• 23:33
  because you weren't seeking just for your own good at that moment.
• 23:37
  So it's important to be that way from a cognitive and both emotional standpoint.
• 23:43
  You you have to think strategy wise.
• 23:45
  You do have to understand, okay.
• 23:47
  You can't make decisions based, but I feel this is a good person.
• 23:50
  I'm I understand there, Brian, sad or not in a good mood.
• 23:53
  So let me do this.
• 23:54
  You can't take it that way, but if you use both how they're feeling and what you're on the
• 24:02
  product, you can align strategically to help them and yourself down the road.
• 24:06
  And it's not being a bad thing.
• 24:08
  You still have a business tomorrow and you're trying to do with all good intentions.
• 24:12
  Absolutely.
• 24:14
  So tell me how with your vendors and your customers, How do they receive?
• 24:21
  You know, how has empathy been received?
• 24:24
  And and kind of when you start your business, like you said, you you and your brother, What
• 24:29
  was some of the things?
• 24:31
  What did you have to do to kind of have people to, you know, start dealing or or scaling up
• 24:37
  with your business?
• 24:38
  I think one of the bigger things with us was we were young.
• 24:42
  Brother was 26.
• 24:43
  I was 29.
• 24:44
  So we were showing up in places that necessarily people really weren't expecting
• 24:50
  young kids in their mind to show up.
• 24:53
  So a lot of times, and many times people thought we were sent by our company.
• 24:58
  So the very few people that and they would clearly voice how they felt about being here.
• 25:04
  Well, you two guys don't know what you're talking about.
• 25:06
  You guys go over here.
• 25:07
  You I'll get you a vendor, and then we would later have to reengage with them on the either
• 25:12
  ordering process and then their story changed.
• 25:14
  They were either being nice with us and trying to act as if they were showing that empathy,
• 25:21
  but they forgot who we were now at that time.
• 25:24
  The people who did show empathy, those became the firms we align with.
• 25:30
  And and what we found out, those firms that did that were truly what helped us grow because
• 25:36
  their leadership from now acted that way.
• 25:39
  Daryl, those leaders, those firms are what helped us grow fast.
• 25:43
  It comes from day 1, they treated us with that level and everything, and we made sure we did
• 25:48
  everything to align with them.
• 25:50
  And what happened was that alignment because those firms had been built and established, put
• 25:57
  some of the other firms in line to help them come on board.
• 26:01
  And as the came on, people saw us the same that they saw us where as we were younger, younger,
• 26:08
  that really didn't change too much.
• 26:10
  This is who we were, and this is how we lived.
• 26:12
  But those it was few firms at the beginning that actually showed it to us.
• 26:16
  So we made sure to align with them.
• 26:19
  But at first, we weren't perceived as belonging, and we made a mental note of that.
• 26:25
  So when we kind of look at trust in business, Right?
• 26:29
  And we look up the future of business, Paul.
• 26:32
  How do you see trust, like, for companies, whether they're, you know, smaller startups or
• 26:37
  or or midsize or even companies that are scaling up, how do you think trust is gonna
• 26:43
  impact us?
• 26:45
  Let's say in the next, say, 3 to 5 years.
• 26:50
  I think it's a big thing.
• 26:51
  There are so many people who've gone too harsh with it.
• 26:54
  They lost their job, and they know of the access done and had my larger executives and
• 27:03
  CEO, I think as they people wanna be able to trust who they're dealing with or at least
• 27:08
  showing to the best of their abilities.
• 27:10
  Somebody's out there trying to do the right thing and making the right moves to help those
• 27:17
  and show genuine care.
• 27:19
  Nothing's perfect in the world.
• 27:21
  But since prior to COVID, there wasn't this mass popularity for wanting to make it known
• 27:28
  that this is how we're gonna go.
• 27:30
  There's how we're gonna move forward and care for all our employees, the earth, everything is
• 27:36
  at the premise of what we do young kids are wise and intelligent, and they will call you
• 27:42
  out on happiness.
• 27:43
  And they're going to eventually be those that come into power and leadership roles, and
• 27:49
  somebody needs to show that that they can continue uniting and doing a good and still
• 27:55
  take leadership roles and have success.
• 27:58
  And I think that's a big gap where leaders just don't tell others, like, you can have success
• 28:03
  being like this.
• 28:05
  So if you had 3 top tips for CEOs that that are listening to this, what would be 3 top tips
• 28:13
  you'd give them, about growing a about running a successful business?
• 28:19
  What what what are some you would give them.
• 28:22
  Oh, John, one, listen to your team.
• 28:24
  Identify that those quiet members who usually don't speak up in your room.
• 28:29
  Identify the work lows on a when they're talking, really actively listen.
• 28:35
  So if you ask a question, let them talk in here.
• 28:39
  2, align yourself with a global or some charity, something that's doing an organization
• 28:46
  that's doing good in this world.
• 28:49
  To give back and really step up and mean it and find out from your team.
• 28:54
  Thirdly, what is it that matters to them?
• 28:57
  And why is their purpose aligned with their company?
• 29:00
  Where do they wanna go?
• 29:01
  I love that mantra where, you know, they hire and say, how is this company gonna help you get
• 29:06
  to the purpose that you want to find out and let them talk and listen?
• 29:10
  You may discover what their time there is is going to help them go a 100% in because they're
• 29:17
  gonna go in and do what they have meant to do or been called to do.
• 29:22
  Anyway, let them give their best time in your company so they can align with their purpose.
• 29:27
  So alignments and really having people live their value.
• 29:31
  So if you are no.
• 29:33
  I know you had said that there was At the end, you said that you're foun your founder to want
• 29:39
  a task.
• 29:39
  What
• 29:40
  is Yes, ma'am.
• 29:41
  Tell me about that.
• 29:42
  So that is a commercial company where we do a lot of hiking and camping gear.
• 29:47
  So it's based with tactical watches, and they were saying on an ecommerce type of site.
• 29:54
  So we wanted to go out and do that where funds made from that company.
• 29:59
  We're basically trying to give almost dollar for dollar support to noble causes.
• 30:06
  For veterans and those in need.
• 30:08
  So I started that saying, hey.
• 30:10
  Look.
• 30:10
  Well, everything's going online and going digital.
• 30:13
  How do I set up another company?
• 30:15
  And that whole premise and purpose of that company really is to be, I'm gonna make money
• 30:20
  and grow it.
• 30:21
  But a lot of it is gonna go back into helping others.
• 30:25
  So not necessarily is it a what do you wanna call it, or a foundation or a charity, but more
• 30:32
  so a social responsible company.
• 30:35
  So any dollar that comes in, we give dog tags out to show, look, part of that cost to get the
• 30:42
  dog tag, and there's no disrespect to the military.
• 30:45
  Is it showing But this aligns with us helping veterans, and this aligns with us helping, the
• 30:51
  different charities that feed port.
• 30:53
  And that's my biggest goal.
• 30:54
  The goal is every year, since you did it to raise up 200,000 to be able to give away.
• 31:00
  So, hopefully, this year, we're able to do a but that's why that one was started.
• 31:05
  Wow.
• 31:05
  Amazing.
• 31:06
  So that that values alignments.
• 31:08
  You put it back where it counts and you give it back to the veterans or people that are coming
• 31:13
  back home or or any kind of issues that might come up.
• 31:16
  And obviously, like, you know, you probably don't know this, but complex PTSD or PTSD is
• 31:22
  one of my specialties as a psychotherapist.
• 31:24
  So I really understand, you know, when people reintegrate back in, Paul, how difficult it is
• 31:29
  and you know, how much assistance families need, you know, or guys or, men coming back,
• 31:37
  after they've been away what it takes and all the symptoms and all the things that maybe
• 31:42
  potentially you would understand from your family being in the military, what kind of
• 31:46
  things people go through and depression and anxiety, you know, being high when people are
• 31:52
  coming back and live normal lives again.
• 31:55
  So I think that's a that's an amazing thing that you do.
• 31:58
  So you are living your value based on the, you know, the industry that you're helping.
• 32:03
  You're helping And, if, for you, I I think you're living the value, and I hope that other
• 32:12
  people in senior positions are listening, right, because I think oftentimes a lot of
• 32:17
  people, and I will talk to people on this podcast, they're afraid to get up that level
• 32:22
  and they only get up.
• 32:24
  They tell the the senior people kind of what they think they need to hear and they're
• 32:28
  oftentimes afraid to share really what's going on.
• 32:32
  And to your point, if you're not listening, truly and not listening to the people of the
• 32:38
  extroverts like me all the time, or maybe the people that are quieter, that could bring so
• 32:42
  much value.
• 32:42
  You're missing a big part of the puzzle.
• 32:45
  Yeah.
• 32:45
  I and I I 100% agree.
• 32:48
  When I read that book, it stream ownership.
• 32:50
  It's one of the lines that I really liked the way the navy seals, and and he put that book
• 32:54
  together.
• 32:55
  I read that from a position People mistake that empathy is weak.
• 32:59
  Yeah.
• 33:00
  Those guys gotta go out and do their work.
• 33:02
  They need to trust each other, and they have to tell each other the hard truth.
• 33:05
  It's not somebody weak who has to sit there and tell you, look, I understand.
• 33:09
  I appreciate what you're doing, but we need to get this done and do it.
• 33:13
  I hear you.
• 33:14
  I am I sympathize, but for the better purpose and good of what we're all doing, this is why
• 33:20
  we need to go.
• 33:21
  And those are some of the toughest guys walking around, and I took from the position.
• 33:26
  That's real empathy.
• 33:27
  It's like, look, I'm hearing.
• 33:29
  I see what you're saying.
• 33:30
  Let's consider this.
• 33:31
  Those guys have each other's back.
• 33:33
  That takes a unit listens to each other.
• 33:36
  That's not a head person in charge saying, it's my way to.
• 33:39
  Hey.
• 33:40
  That's a group of guys or team members and women that are working together to for
• 33:45
  something bigger.
• 33:46
  And if there's not a better example, then that I don't know what it is.
• 33:50
  Like, you you I would not wanna go out anymore from that without somebody understanding the
• 33:56
  reasons why we're listening that you're putting everyone in danger, and that's just from the
• 34:00
  outside looking in.
• 34:01
  So what's different from a leadership role?
• 34:04
  Listen to your team.
• 34:06
  Yeah.
• 34:07
  They bring they bring value and you're only as strong as as, you know, the people that you're
• 34:12
  connected to on your team.
• 34:14
  Absolutely.
• 34:15
  So thanks so much for your time, Paul.
• 34:17
  This has been amazing.
• 34:19
  And I, you know, Paul is stretching himself, talking to me on this podcast, you've been
• 34:24
  phenomenal.
• 34:25
  For any senior leaders listening out there, you know, we are now being, I would say, called to
• 34:34
  to really live our values and living your values at the front end, systemically, we know
• 34:41
  the power, you know, you make change from the top.
• 34:44
  So think of your role and think about what frontwood facing message are you putting out
• 34:51
  there and how is that backed by the values?
• 34:55
  Of your employees behind you.
• 34:57
  And with that in mind, with that, concerted, thought out, perspective, what you are gonna do
• 35:05
  is you're gonna grow people around you, and then everything else takes care of itself.
• 35:10
  Again, Paul, thanks so much for your time for listening.
• 35:14
  If you're needing anything on authentic leadership, please reach out to me at Roxanne
• 35:20
  Derhodge.
• 35:22
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive the
• 35:28
  change.
• 35:29
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 35:36
  Derhodge dotcom/blueprint.
• 35:39
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.