Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Young Woman 'BEHEADED' on Sidewalk, Broad Daylight. NO FORMAL CHARGES.

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Young Woman 'BEHEADED' on Sidewalk, Broad Daylight. NO FORMAL CHARGES. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: A beautiful young woman beheaded, Yes, that's what I said, beheaded,
0:13
Speaker 1: has her head chopped off on the sidewalk in broad daylight.
0:21
Speaker 1: And the Minnesota district attorney is still trying to decide
0:26
Speaker 1: whether he should seek life without parole. Really, he's still
0:32
Speaker 1: trying to decide. He's mulling. Wow, what should I do
0:36
Speaker 1: with this case? Should I plead it out on probation?
0:39
Speaker 1: What is going on in Minnesota? A woman gets beheaded
0:44
Speaker 1: with a machete on the sidewalk in a subdivision in
0:50
Speaker 1: broad daylight. This guy needs to be under the jail.
1:03
Speaker 1: One of the things I had to learn early on,
1:07
Speaker 1: as in day one when I began prosecuting violent crime,
1:12
Speaker 1: is that there is no happy ending. I want there
1:16
Speaker 1: to be a happy ending when it comes to violent crime.
1:20
Speaker 1: But even when you try a case and you get
1:23
Speaker 1: a guilty verdict and you get a maximum sentence, I
1:29
Speaker 1: never went out and celebrated or how to celebration dinner,
1:36
Speaker 1: because everybody leaves the courtroom with a broken heart. You
1:42
Speaker 1: can never get the victim back, You can never take
1:44
Speaker 1: back the damage done. The defendant's family is all torn
1:48
Speaker 1: up because he or she is going away to jail
1:51
Speaker 1: or worse. So everybody is upset. That's the reality. But
1:59
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, you can get justice. You
2:02
Speaker 1: can walk out of that courtroom with a broken heart,
2:06
Speaker 1: but knowing you got justice in one case at least.
2:11
Speaker 1: So I would like to find out TikTok, TikTok, tick
2:14
Speaker 1: talk what is this Minnesota prosecutor waiting on with me?
2:20
Speaker 1: And I'll star panel to break it down and put
2:22
Speaker 1: it back together again. But first take to listen to
2:25
Speaker 1: this the first question I asked the cop when I
2:27
Speaker 1: asked him if I could tell him what I saw
2:29
Speaker 1: was that was real? And he said yes. Alexis Pool
2:32
Speaker 1: was cleaning her house Wednesday afternoon on the corner of
2:35
Speaker 1: a busy four way stop intersection in Shockoppy when something
2:38
Speaker 1: suspicious out the window prompted her to start filming with
2:41
Speaker 1: her cell phone. I thought it was a joke. I
2:43
Speaker 1: thought it was some type of prank. I didn't think
2:46
Speaker 1: it was real. I thought maybe it was a doll.
2:48
Speaker 1: The doll was actually a lifeless body pulled out of
2:51
Speaker 1: the car by a man who then grabbed her decapitated head.
2:55
Speaker 1: I saw him go in his back seat and put
2:57
Speaker 1: on his backpack and walk away like nothing. Happened. The
2:59
Speaker 1: victim was America Mafalda Thair. Charged in her death is
3:03
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, forty two year old Alexis Sabred. According to
3:06
Speaker 1: the criminal complaint, witnesses at the busy intersection who drove
3:09
Speaker 1: around the car apparently saw the suspect hacking the victim
3:14
Speaker 1: but didn't realize what they were watching. And he smelled
3:17
Speaker 1: something and he just stopped. The next day, a woman
3:19
Speaker 1: walking her dog found the bloody murder weapon along machete
3:23
Speaker 1: with a deeply serrated edge. It was very awful seeing it,
3:27
Speaker 1: and I wish I hadn't ntil never to be able
3:28
Speaker 1: to unsee it. He were just hearing our friend Loui
3:32
Speaker 1: reducing Ka r E eleven reporting on what happened. Again,
3:37
Speaker 1: let me tell you about our all star panel assemboled
3:40
Speaker 1: today to make sense of this, if that's even possible.
3:43
Speaker 1: We're now on trial. Attorney joining us out of the
3:45
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction. Randy Kessler, Emory Law professor and former chair
3:51
Speaker 1: of the ABA Family Law Section, author of Divorce, Protect Yourself,
3:55
Speaker 1: your Kids, and your Future. You can find them at
3:57
Speaker 1: k k S Family Law dot com. Doctor Sherry sorts
4:02
Speaker 1: with US forensic psychologists specializing and just this sort of
4:07
Speaker 1: crime at panther at mitigation dot com. Author of criminal
4:11
Speaker 1: behavior and where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Kendall Crown's
4:17
Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's in Austin and
4:21
Speaker 1: also senior lecturer at University of Texas and Texas. A
4:26
Speaker 1: and M. Robert Crispin joining us private investigator at Crispin's
4:30
Speaker 1: Special Investigations Crispin Investigations dot com. He is a was
4:36
Speaker 1: a homicide investigator and with the DEA. But first to
4:40
Speaker 1: Paul Bloom, reporter Fox nine News there in Minneapolis. Paul Bloom,
4:46
Speaker 1: let me understand, Minneapolis doesn't have the death penalty. So basically,
4:52
Speaker 1: you can behead as many unarmed women on the sidewalk
4:56
Speaker 1: as you want to. Is you can get away with
4:59
Speaker 1: and you're still not gonna get the death penalty? Is
5:01
Speaker 1: that right? No offense? But isn't that true? No offense taken?
5:05
Speaker 1: But absolutely as horrific as that sounds, Minnesota as a
5:08
Speaker 1: non death penalty state. In fact, a prosecutor out to
5:12
Speaker 1: make the decision to take a murder case to a
5:15
Speaker 1: grand jury, get a grand jury to sign off on
5:18
Speaker 1: that first degree murder indictment. And hold on, you got
5:22
Speaker 1: me drinking out of the fire hijun too much, too fast.
5:25
Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment. You said, the district attorney
5:29
Speaker 1: has to quote make a decision. In other words, think
5:33
Speaker 1: for a minute before he she takes a case to
5:37
Speaker 1: the grand jury. Isn't it true, Paul Bloom that in Minnesota,
5:42
Speaker 1: like everywhere else in the country, there is a grand
5:46
Speaker 1: jury impaneled for every grand jury session. They need to
5:52
Speaker 1: my understanding of the legal system, as they need to
5:55
Speaker 1: impanel a grand jury. This is outside of Minneapolis, so
5:59
Speaker 1: this is a quieter county, if you will, they would
6:02
Speaker 1: have to impanel a grand jury and take the evidence
6:06
Speaker 1: to that jury of the peers and indict on a
6:10
Speaker 1: first degree murder count Okay, Randy Kessler, you know the deal.
6:15
Speaker 1: Every jurisdiction has a grand jury impaneled. Impaneled sounds like
6:20
Speaker 1: it's individual to that case, but the reality is is
6:24
Speaker 1: that grand jurors are very simply selected automatically. There's not
6:30
Speaker 1: a person drawing an aim out of a box or anything.
6:33
Speaker 1: Typically off the voter registration list because those people are
6:39
Speaker 1: in the Fulton County and then or whatever county we're
6:42
Speaker 1: talking about, and then once they get to the courthouse
6:44
Speaker 1: on their point of day, their question, do you still
6:47
Speaker 1: live in Let's just pretend Fulton County, Paul Bloom, what
6:51
Speaker 1: county is? This is Scott County, Minnesota, Scott County. So
6:55
Speaker 1: once you get just let's pretend forty people off the
6:58
Speaker 1: voter registration was. It's just like when you get a
7:01
Speaker 1: jury summons. You're not special. You're picked off the driver's
7:06
Speaker 1: license list or the voter registration list that signifies your
7:10
Speaker 1: age and the fact that you live in the correct jurisdiction.
7:14
Speaker 1: You're summoned in. And if you're for some reason not
7:17
Speaker 1: the right age or not in the jurisdiction, you're thrown out.
7:21
Speaker 1: And everybody else basically stews in the same pot with
7:25
Speaker 1: the other poor people that get dragged in for jury duty.
7:28
Speaker 1: I agree or disagree? Kessler agree. Wouldn't it be nice
7:31
Speaker 1: if there was a jurisdiction where there was so little
7:33
Speaker 1: crime that read, wait until there was a crime committed?
7:38
Speaker 1: You know what you said, that's so much better than
7:40
Speaker 1: I did, Randy Kessler. This is how it works. Every
7:44
Speaker 1: time there's a crime, you don't panel a new grand jury.
7:48
Speaker 1: You have a grand jury on hold. Now. In the
7:52
Speaker 1: jurisdiction where I practice, Inner City, Atlanta, we had a
7:55
Speaker 1: jury the term I believe it lasted six months and
7:59
Speaker 1: the grand jury we would come in about forty people
8:03
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays and they would hear cases for
8:07
Speaker 1: about three or four hours. Each case lasted about three
8:11
Speaker 1: to fifteen minutes. Bare bones case. The cop comes in
8:14
Speaker 1: and says, this is what happened, Bam and dit or
8:17
Speaker 1: no bill. It's really that simple. If they didn't have
8:20
Speaker 1: a lot of cases that day, that'd get out early.
8:23
Speaker 1: But what it meant to me is that about once
8:26
Speaker 1: or twice a week I'd get a whole caseload of
8:28
Speaker 1: brand new in diamonds. The grand jury handed down. So
8:31
Speaker 1: Paul Bloom joining me out of Fox nine News Minneapolis,
8:35
Speaker 1: and I know you don't have a dog in this fight.
8:37
Speaker 1: You're just the messenger. Are you telling me? The elected
8:42
Speaker 1: District Attorney of Scott County is still sitting there with
8:48
Speaker 1: a thumb up as rear end And this case has
8:52
Speaker 1: not been indicted for murder one. That's a yes, snow, Paul.
8:56
Speaker 1: It has not been indicted. Clime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
9:10
Speaker 1: we're talking about a beautiful young woman that was literally
9:15
Speaker 1: beheaded on the side walk and as of right now,
9:20
Speaker 1: the killer has not been indicted for murder one. Why
9:26
Speaker 1: is that? Take a listen to this. We're learning new
9:30
Speaker 1: information about a woman's death and shakopee. We want to
9:33
Speaker 1: warn you some of the details aren't disturbing and not
9:35
Speaker 1: appropriate for young people. Police have identified the victim as America. There.
9:40
Speaker 1: We're told she was found around two thirty yesterday afternoon
9:43
Speaker 1: at the intersection of Fourth Avenue and Spencer Street. Police
9:47
Speaker 1: tell us they found her body beheaded. A man, police say,
9:50
Speaker 1: knew the victim was arrested on suspicion of second degree murder.
9:54
Speaker 1: He's in jail pending charges second degree murder? What do
10:00
Speaker 1: you have to do to get murder? One? He beheads
10:02
Speaker 1: her in broad Dale on the sidewalk. People see it happen. Okay,
10:09
Speaker 1: let me understand what happened, Paul Blome before I bring
10:11
Speaker 1: in the rest of our panel. Paul joining us there
10:15
Speaker 1: at Fox nineties Minneapolis, tell me what happened the day
10:19
Speaker 1: of the beheading. Well, I mean it's horrific. Basically, the
10:24
Speaker 1: assailant here, America's boyfriend, longtime boyfriend Alexa Sabrett hanging out.
10:30
Speaker 1: He's got a court hearing that day, just basic an
10:34
Speaker 1: hour before this grizzly attack occurs. Our understanding is America's
10:40
Speaker 1: trying to convince him to go to court. We don't
10:43
Speaker 1: know exactly what happens in the car they're driving around.
10:46
Speaker 1: He elects not to go to court that day. He
10:48
Speaker 1: was accused of trying to burn down his own apartment
10:51
Speaker 1: a year earlier. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, he's already accused. No,
10:55
Speaker 1: you're not off track, You're perfect. He's used a burning
11:01
Speaker 1: down an apartment, and he's going, Wow, should I go
11:04
Speaker 1: to court? Well, in what universe do you get a
11:10
Speaker 1: summons to court and you go, hmm, I wonder if
11:12
Speaker 1: I should go? And so she's trying to talk him
11:15
Speaker 1: into showing up for court and he beheads her. Is
11:22
Speaker 1: that right, Paul, Yeah, that's that's where that's out. He
11:25
Speaker 1: refuses to go. There's an altercation in the cars, some
11:28
Speaker 1: sort of assault of behavior occurring. He pulls over to
11:32
Speaker 1: the side of the row. We're just two blocks from
11:33
Speaker 1: the courthouse in Scott County, right downtown Shockopy. As you
11:37
Speaker 1: mentioned broad daylight. I think it's a Wednesday afternoon. Say
11:40
Speaker 1: this is two blocks from the courthouse. Yeah, just two
11:45
Speaker 1: blocks from a court of law, and he thinks it's
11:48
Speaker 1: okay to drag his girlfriend out of the car in
11:51
Speaker 1: broad daylight and behead her. And the DA is still
11:55
Speaker 1: thinking about it. You just heard from our friend Sheila
11:59
Speaker 1: raise A w CCCBS. Now take listen to this. A
12:03
Speaker 1: local resident reports the police that her dog has found
12:06
Speaker 1: a knife in a nearby garden. A bloody shirt and
12:09
Speaker 1: shoes are also recovered in an alley a few blocks away.
12:12
Speaker 1: A police report notes that a black handle was sticking
12:14
Speaker 1: up from the ground, concealed in a bush. The blade
12:17
Speaker 1: was almost entirely shoved into the dirt and difficult to see.
12:20
Speaker 1: Documents described the weapon as a black machete with a
12:22
Speaker 1: partially serrated edge. Police said the blade was covered with
12:25
Speaker 1: a bloodlike substance and there appeared to be strands of
12:28
Speaker 1: hair on it. The knife also appears to fit a
12:30
Speaker 1: sheath found at the crime scene. Okay, the reason I'm
12:33
Speaker 1: having so many long pauses is because it's just very
12:36
Speaker 1: hard for me to take this and let me remind
12:38
Speaker 1: everybody that this woman, America Thair, has a family, She
12:44
Speaker 1: has children. How do you live with knowing your mother
12:51
Speaker 1: was beheaded in broad Dale Light, two blocks from the courthouse,
12:55
Speaker 1: in a suburban area, in a setting where a woman
12:58
Speaker 1: looks out of our kitchen window and sees a beheading.
13:06
Speaker 1: This isn't just some statistic or some name on a
13:08
Speaker 1: police report. This was a beautiful young woman with children.
13:15
Speaker 1: And did did I hear Paul Bloom Fox nine needs
13:19
Speaker 1: Minneapolis that a dog? What did a dog find the
13:26
Speaker 1: machete a day or two after the attack? And you
13:31
Speaker 1: know what else? I heard Doctor Sherry Shorts forensic psychologists
13:34
Speaker 1: who loves to tell me why people are. They're insane
13:37
Speaker 1: at the time, but insanity under the law. And I'm
13:42
Speaker 1: sure a Randy Kessler will correct me if I'm wrong.
13:46
Speaker 1: Is you don't know right from wrong at the time
13:49
Speaker 1: of the incident. It doesn't mean you come into court
13:51
Speaker 1: and babbel or speaking tongues, or turn around in your
13:56
Speaker 1: chair or refuse to eat. It means at the time
14:00
Speaker 1: the incident you did not know right from wrong. And
14:04
Speaker 1: let me point out, doctor Sherry Schwartz that this guy
14:09
Speaker 1: conceals the weapon, he takes off his bloody shoes, he
14:14
Speaker 1: takes off his bloody clothing, and hides it and leaves
14:20
Speaker 1: he knew what he did was wrong. For Pete's say,
14:24
Speaker 1: right before he murdered this woman, he apparently was angry
14:28
Speaker 1: because she thought he should go to court on an
14:30
Speaker 1: arson charge, and he didn't want to go to court.
14:33
Speaker 1: He knew everything he did was wrong. That is the
14:37
Speaker 1: litmus test for insanity. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It would
14:42
Speaker 1: be very difficult for any forensic psychologist to opine, to
14:49
Speaker 1: render an opinion in this case that there is that
14:54
Speaker 1: legal concept of insanity. You know, there's evidence of guilty
14:59
Speaker 1: mind mind right, and that's one of the things that
15:01
Speaker 1: we look for. Somebody discarded the machete, he was the
15:05
Speaker 1: one with it, Witnesses saw him, presumably, and it winds
15:09
Speaker 1: up in somebody's garden, and then you know, a little
15:13
Speaker 1: distance away, there's his bloody shoes. I'm assuming they're his
15:17
Speaker 1: bloody shoes, bloody clothing. Obviously, this is evidence that he
15:23
Speaker 1: was trying to conceal the crime. So that would preclude
15:27
Speaker 1: any insanity defense, any opinion by a forensic psychologist that
15:32
Speaker 1: there's legal insanity here. You know, Randy Kess or, in
15:35
Speaker 1: many many jurisdictions, the evidence of flight when you commit
15:42
Speaker 1: a crime and then you run or you're on the
15:44
Speaker 1: run from police evidence of concealment. It's still allowed at trial.
15:50
Speaker 1: It can be argued both ways by the prosecutor and
15:54
Speaker 1: the defense, whether it's evidence of guilt. But the judge
15:58
Speaker 1: no longer in jurisdictions can instruct the jury that flight
16:03
Speaker 1: or concealment of evidence is evidence of guilt. Of course
16:07
Speaker 1: it is, but that is for a jury to decide.
16:11
Speaker 1: That's why they change the judge's instruction. That is within
16:14
Speaker 1: the sole province of a jury considering the case, not
16:19
Speaker 1: a judge, but Randy, please come on analyze it, man,
16:23
Speaker 1: and and don't go off in some legal defense of
16:27
Speaker 1: theory and throw a lot of Latin phrases in everybody.
16:30
Speaker 1: We don't care. This is evidence of guilty. He took
16:33
Speaker 1: off his boody clothes, he had the weapon, he had
16:35
Speaker 1: the clothes and left. All right, well, I'll end with
16:38
Speaker 1: something you'll like. But to start with this is the
16:40
Speaker 1: most dangerous kind of criminal there is because this was anger.
16:43
Speaker 1: This was something. Clearly, the facts are so horrific that
16:47
Speaker 1: evidence of flight isn't going to matter. The jury is
16:48
Speaker 1: going to hate him. But the bottom line is he
16:52
Speaker 1: acted spontaneously, right, And that's the thing you don't want
16:55
Speaker 1: to hear from me because it's a legal defense. It
16:56
Speaker 1: was certainly not premeditated. You don't premeditate the caody. You
17:00
Speaker 1: have a machett in your back seat? Do you bring
17:06
Speaker 1: a machete? Don't tell me it's spontaneous, because he had
17:10
Speaker 1: time for premeditation. Premeditation under the lock and be formed
17:15
Speaker 1: in the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment.
17:17
Speaker 1: The time it takes to reach in the back seat,
17:20
Speaker 1: grab the machete, hold it up and swing it. That
17:24
Speaker 1: is time to think, Wow, maybe I shouldn't the head
17:27
Speaker 1: my girlfriend. He's not going to get off light. But
17:30
Speaker 1: you know he's gotta have something. You know when I'm
17:34
Speaker 1: correcting grammar. Okay, so let me stop myself. Take a
17:38
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Fox nine News. Can't even
17:45
Speaker 1: I have no words for it, dude. It's yeah, it scary.
17:49
Speaker 1: Folks living in this residential neighborhood just blocked him. Downtown
17:52
Speaker 1: Chockopy shaken by a horrifying that afternoon attack. They left
17:56
Speaker 1: a woman dead in the street. Emergency responders and eventually
17:59
Speaker 1: crime scene investigators descending on the scene around two thirty pm.
18:03
Speaker 1: The black penting here marking the spot. A male suspect
18:07
Speaker 1: initially fled on foot, but he was captured soon after
18:10
Speaker 1: about a mile and a half away. Authorities combing several
18:14
Speaker 1: locations looking for evidence. Sources telling Fox nine that a
18:17
Speaker 1: knife was used in the deadly assault. Yeah, it's scary.
18:21
Speaker 1: It's too close to home. I feel like anti to
18:23
Speaker 1: listen to more from our friends at Fox nineties. It
18:27
Speaker 1: took place hours ago in broad daylight, and yet it
18:31
Speaker 1: remains taped off, very much an active crime scene. Tonight.
18:35
Speaker 1: You mentioned quiet residential neighborhood of Shockrapy. We're just blocks
18:39
Speaker 1: from downtown. In fact, where we stand, we've been listening
18:42
Speaker 1: into the music of the Wednesday night summer concert series
18:46
Speaker 1: Rhythm on the rails Here. People are parking nearby, they're
18:50
Speaker 1: walking home. I see a gentleman with a cooler heading
18:52
Speaker 1: back to his car. I've speaking to neighbors today. They
18:55
Speaker 1: are absolutely disgusted and alarmed by what unfolded here. Climb
19:08
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. I described the saying for me, Paul,
19:12
Speaker 1: because you know it sounds like this wonderful evening where
19:15
Speaker 1: there's going to be a summer concert series. It's a
19:19
Speaker 1: Wednesday evening. This happened that afternoon. Tell me about the location. Well,
19:25
Speaker 1: it's exactly as I said in my report. We're standing
19:28
Speaker 1: there that the scenes taped off. We now know what's happened.
19:32
Speaker 1: Social media video of the event has has circulated, so
19:37
Speaker 1: the community has seen it. And yet a block away
19:39
Speaker 1: on the riverfront in downtown chocopy of you know, a
19:43
Speaker 1: sleepy growing suburb, a couple of you know rings removed
19:47
Speaker 1: from Minneapolis. It's their River Music series, So there's music,
19:51
Speaker 1: people have coolers, people are picnicking outside, they're going to
19:54
Speaker 1: the bars, the restaurant. We're breaking out of the pandemic,
19:57
Speaker 1: and they're literally walking by within a block of the
20:00
Speaker 1: this grizzly crime scene that that investigators are combing over.
20:04
Speaker 1: They took hours. They meticulously photographed, They had their drone
20:08
Speaker 1: up that day. They wanted to map this thing out.
20:12
Speaker 1: It's still bobs my mind how they didn't find the
20:14
Speaker 1: machete initially. It took him another data to find that
20:17
Speaker 1: in a nearby yard. But yeah, that scene was just
20:19
Speaker 1: a really remarkable sort of you know, two different things,
20:24
Speaker 1: the horrors a block away and then the music continuing
20:27
Speaker 1: and people living their lives like nothing had happened. I
20:30
Speaker 1: just wanted our viewers to kind of picture that in
20:33
Speaker 1: that moment. I am. I am Paul Bloom. Paul joining
20:37
Speaker 1: us from Fox nineties Minneapolis. Robert Crispin now private investigator
20:42
Speaker 1: at Crispin's Special Investigations. Robert, that dichotomy that Paul is
20:49
Speaker 1: describing before he said the two very different scenes. I
20:52
Speaker 1: was thinking about that, and I think that's something that
20:56
Speaker 1: I never have gotten used to, and it brings to mine.
21:00
Speaker 1: My very first carjack murder trial, and it was of
21:04
Speaker 1: a young man. He had come outside his home for
21:09
Speaker 1: some reason and he was getting out of his car.
21:13
Speaker 1: That's what happened. He parked in front of his home
21:15
Speaker 1: and he was getting out of the car and some
21:20
Speaker 1: guy comes by wants the car, and he not only
21:25
Speaker 1: carjacks the car, but he merged the guy. And there
21:29
Speaker 1: is this beautiful front yard. I think the guy was
21:32
Speaker 1: pretty young too, like maybe nineteen twenty years old that
21:35
Speaker 1: was murdered, and so it had to be the family home.
21:38
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful yard they worked on all the time.
21:41
Speaker 1: And I remember the dichotomy in that case that just
21:45
Speaker 1: stuck me in the heart. The neighbor looked out the
21:49
Speaker 1: window and heard a gunshot, and he saw the victim fall,
21:54
Speaker 1: and the neighbor ran out and put a pillow under
21:59
Speaker 1: the victim's head. And the thought, I mean, the victim
22:03
Speaker 1: was already dead. He got shot in the head. The
22:06
Speaker 1: dichotomy of this lovely yard and trying to make the
22:12
Speaker 1: victim comfortable, there's just something about it that really twists
22:16
Speaker 1: the knife. Now you deal with homicize your homicide investigator
22:24
Speaker 1: all around Florida, for Lauderdale, that's never a lack of business.
22:30
Speaker 1: And when we were discussing this case earlier, Robert Crispin,
22:34
Speaker 1: you said you investigated cases like this and why the
22:38
Speaker 1: women went back to the men like it was their fault.
22:42
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, the sad part about didn't you say that?
22:46
Speaker 1: I did? Yeah, you did, hear it. What bothered me
22:51
Speaker 1: and what bothers me is these victims of domestic violence,
22:55
Speaker 1: after they've been battered, and you know, after they've gotten
22:58
Speaker 1: out of the hospital, you know, within a week they're
23:01
Speaker 1: going back to the judge and they're telling the judge
23:03
Speaker 1: it didn't happen that way. I want him to come home.
23:06
Speaker 1: I love him, and I don't want to prosecute, and
23:09
Speaker 1: it's just a recipe for disaster because the judges let
23:13
Speaker 1: these no contact orders go and these people get back together,
23:16
Speaker 1: and it just keeps escalating. And I tell you from
23:19
Speaker 1: experience in working these cases my entire career, domestic violence
23:23
Speaker 1: cases escalate, they do. Well, you're right on that, Robert Crispin.
23:28
Speaker 1: I was all ready to well, I'm not going to
23:32
Speaker 1: say it on Aaron. I don't think Fox Nay she
23:34
Speaker 1: would like that very much. But you're right, You're right.
23:39
Speaker 1: Very often they get way together. But the reasons for
23:44
Speaker 1: it are reasons we don't understand sometimes so that we
23:46
Speaker 1: can't relate to. Sometimes the woman has zero money, nowhere
23:50
Speaker 1: to go. It's the father of the children. She wants
23:53
Speaker 1: to have this beautiful, happy family that you read about
23:56
Speaker 1: and see on TV, and thinks that somehow she's single
23:59
Speaker 1: handedly can fix the whole thing. So who is this guy?
24:06
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Minnesota blogger Scott Johnson. Listen. He's
24:13
Speaker 1: a Cuban illegal immigrant. He entered through El Paso in
24:18
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven and by two twelve there were
24:23
Speaker 1: two deportation orders that he had racked up, and Ice
24:27
Speaker 1: was Ice was not able to deport him because Cuba
24:31
Speaker 1: wouldn't take him back, So we get Cuba's felons an
24:37
Speaker 1: illegal immigrant entering through El Paso by twenty twelve two
24:42
Speaker 1: deportation orders. That doesn't just happen. You have to bring
24:46
Speaker 1: yourself to the attention of authorities to get a deportation order.
24:50
Speaker 1: Let's circle back to the crime. Joining me right now,
24:53
Speaker 1: Senior lecturer at University Texas and Texas A and M
24:57
Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis, Texas. That's Austin, doctor Kendall Crowns.
25:03
Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for taking time out to be
25:06
Speaker 1: with us, Doctor Crowns. It doesn't seem to me that
25:10
Speaker 1: it would be very easy physically to be head someone.
25:14
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to, for instance, dismember a body. How
25:19
Speaker 1: difficult is it to physically be head someone? So it
25:24
Speaker 1: depends on how you go about the process of beheading them.
25:29
Speaker 1: If you are using a machete like is in this case,
25:32
Speaker 1: machetes are usually not very sharp. They're kind of kind
25:36
Speaker 1: of sharp am blunt, so it's difficult to get through
25:39
Speaker 1: the neck musculature the trachea in one swing, so you're
25:44
Speaker 1: gonna have multiple hacking swings and then once you get
25:46
Speaker 1: through the soft tissue, then you have to get through
25:48
Speaker 1: the spinal column and then depending on how you hit
25:52
Speaker 1: the spinal columns, it is hard to hack through. So
25:55
Speaker 1: it's it's a fairly labor intensive process to decapitate someone
25:59
Speaker 1: with the chetty. If you use a sharper implement like
26:03
Speaker 1: a sword, you can get through the tissue and the
26:07
Speaker 1: next structure is quicker. But in the machete cases i've seen,
26:12
Speaker 1: it's usually multiple strikes. Takes a lot of effort to
26:14
Speaker 1: get the head off multiple strikes. The reason I'm asking
26:19
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns is not for the gory or kurient
26:23
Speaker 1: interest in what happened to America. I'm trying to establish premeditation,
26:30
Speaker 1: and as Randy Kessler and I were discussing, premeditation can
26:35
Speaker 1: be formed in the blink of an eye. It does
26:39
Speaker 1: not require a prolonged plan such as poisoning someone over
26:42
Speaker 1: a period of months. It can be formed in the
26:46
Speaker 1: time it takes to pull a gun and pull the trigger.
26:48
Speaker 1: It's just that fast. So if the beheading takes a
26:53
Speaker 1: lot of effort and probably several hacking motions, Randy Kessler,
26:59
Speaker 1: that's time him to form premeditation based on what doctor
27:02
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns has said. I agree, but you know, even
27:04
Speaker 1: worse to the defense if he's going to claim self defense,
27:07
Speaker 1: which he seems to be saying, you know, one hatch
27:09
Speaker 1: should be enough to keep her away from her to you, right,
27:12
Speaker 1: I mean, that just sort of gets rid of any
27:14
Speaker 1: claim he has it that it was her fault that
27:16
Speaker 1: he had to defend himselfs So, you know, the premeditation
27:19
Speaker 1: maybe that you know, he could argue the first first
27:23
Speaker 1: attempt wasn't premeditated, but when he kept going, you're right,
27:26
Speaker 1: that gets rid of any any defense that this was
27:29
Speaker 1: not premeditated. He kept going, so you know, one time
27:33
Speaker 1: at it, this is a reaction. I just grabbed whatever
27:35
Speaker 1: I saw and I hit her with it. That the
27:37
Speaker 1: hatchett was there, the machete he happened to be my
27:40
Speaker 1: car because I was working a job where I was
27:42
Speaker 1: using it. You know, all that goes out the window
27:44
Speaker 1: when it's more than one strike this time, you're right,
27:56
Speaker 1: climb stories with Meancy Grace to Paul Bloom, reporter Fox
28:01
Speaker 1: nine News Minneapolis, who is the elected District Attorney district's
28:07
Speaker 1: attorney in Scott County. His name is Ron Hochavar, County
28:11
Speaker 1: attorney here in Scott County. But just to follow through
28:14
Speaker 1: on what you what you guys were talking about with
28:16
Speaker 1: the machete. You know, witnesses report here do do quote
28:19
Speaker 1: as seeing you know, several strikes, actually thinking it's a
28:23
Speaker 1: it's a baton or a bat of some kind. You
28:25
Speaker 1: know that they're watching something like that, like someone get beaten.
28:29
Speaker 1: They didn't realize in the moment that it was a
28:32
Speaker 1: machete that was being used to hack off America's head. Guys,
28:36
Speaker 1: you're talking about a beautiful young woman. I'm looking at
28:39
Speaker 1: a picture right now, long, curly blonde hair, perfect teeth.
28:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking at her at her job and
28:50
Speaker 1: she's smiling for somebody, and she's dead. She was beheaded
28:57
Speaker 1: by this guy, an illegal immigrant who has two deportation
29:03
Speaker 1: orders on him. But who is she and what was
29:08
Speaker 1: the nature of their relationship? Take a listen now to
29:12
Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. There's co workers say they
29:16
Speaker 1: saw signs that America is abused. Three women, all Dollar
29:20
Speaker 1: Tree workers, say that there had once come to work
29:22
Speaker 1: with a broken arm and bruises on her face. They
29:25
Speaker 1: say there would set up a FaceTime on her phone
29:27
Speaker 1: so her boyfriend of seven years could watch her at work.
29:30
Speaker 1: Co workers say they were concerned by Savoreet's controlling behavior,
29:33
Speaker 1: and often Thayer would stay over with friends to avoid him.
29:36
Speaker 1: Riva Scar until The Star Tribune that Savoy would not
29:39
Speaker 1: allow there to use the bathroom alone during a visit
29:41
Speaker 1: to her apartment. Scar also says there would sometimes sleep
29:44
Speaker 1: at her desk, at her my pillow job, or in
29:47
Speaker 1: her car at the Amazon Fulfillment Center parking lot. Fox
29:50
Speaker 1: nine reporter Mary McGuire tweeted that one of Thayer's former
29:53
Speaker 1: co workers says she asked why Thare didn't leave. According
29:56
Speaker 1: to the co worker, Thayer said, if I leave, he
29:59
Speaker 1: will kill me. If I believe he will kill me,
30:02
Speaker 1: Well there's your answer, Robert Crispin as to why she
30:04
Speaker 1: hadn't left yet, she was afraid he'd killer. That's exactly
30:07
Speaker 1: what happens. So exactly what happens. They're afraid to leave
30:10
Speaker 1: these people, and you know these people in these suspects,
30:16
Speaker 1: they just flip out when they're going to lose their
30:18
Speaker 1: their spouse, and this is what happens in these cases.
30:22
Speaker 1: It's just it's sad, it's heartbreaking, especially when someone goes
30:25
Speaker 1: and listen, no contact order because they're afraid of losing
30:28
Speaker 1: their beautiful house or losing the income from the spouse
30:31
Speaker 1: of their two or three kids, he would kill her
30:35
Speaker 1: or her children. Listen. I have been to the exact
30:38
Speaker 1: same house eight to ten times on domestic violence cases,
30:42
Speaker 1: and every single time we went out, every single time
30:45
Speaker 1: we went out, the violence escalated and he would get arrested.
30:49
Speaker 1: And I will tell you this in the O. J.
30:51
Speaker 1: Simpson case that really helped law enforcement and prosecutors moving forward.
30:56
Speaker 1: Where back in the day if you remember this, of
31:00
Speaker 1: course you were a prosecutor. You know, law enforcements showed
31:02
Speaker 1: up and there was a domestic violence case and she's like, oh, no, no,
31:05
Speaker 1: no, no no, I'm okay, no no, no, I fell I
31:07
Speaker 1: hit my hit my nose. I'm sorry. They didn't arrest. Now,
31:13
Speaker 1: the state of Florida will prosecute you without the victim cooperative. Sadly,
31:17
Speaker 1: Nicole Brown was right because the Simpson jury saw a
31:23
Speaker 1: picture of her up on a screen with her face
31:25
Speaker 1: mangled black and blue by J. Simpson, and they still
31:30
Speaker 1: acquitted him. So I guess Nicole Brown was right. Guys,
31:34
Speaker 1: if you disagree with the district attorney sitting on his
31:38
Speaker 1: rear end. I guess he's having a big fat cup
31:40
Speaker 1: of coffee right now, probably an eight dollars cup of
31:43
Speaker 1: coffee from the Starbucks. Here's his phone number nine five
31:46
Speaker 1: two four nine six eight two four zero, nine five
31:52
Speaker 1: two four and nine six eight two four zero. Who
31:57
Speaker 1: will speak up for America? There? Who? If not us,
32:03
Speaker 1: then who? And PS? You can tell him I sent you.
32:08
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this America. Thayer and her boyfriend
32:12
Speaker 1: Alexis Saboret had been dating for seven years, but the
32:15
Speaker 1: forty two year old had a history of criminal domestic abuse.
32:18
Speaker 1: Savoy was convicted in twenty seventeen for an attack against there.
32:21
Speaker 1: When police arrived at the home, Savory was holding her
32:24
Speaker 1: to the ground. Officers say there told them the fight
32:26
Speaker 1: began when Savory thought she was talking to another man
32:29
Speaker 1: at a bar. A pre trial no contact order was
32:31
Speaker 1: put in place, but theyre wrote to the court to
32:33
Speaker 1: have the order removed. According to the Sun, she told
32:36
Speaker 1: the court they had lived together for four years at
32:38
Speaker 1: that time and had never had a problem. The court
32:41
Speaker 1: granted her petition. You know, I'm curious about something you
32:45
Speaker 1: reported earlier. Paul Bloom joining me from Fox's Nine Knees
32:49
Speaker 1: in Minnesota. In Minneapolis specifically, Paul, did I hear someone
32:55
Speaker 1: report that he would not let her go to the
32:58
Speaker 1: bathroom alone? Was controlling? Absolutely, there were issues in that
33:03
Speaker 1: house or that household. U. The police knew it in
33:06
Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath as I'm heading to that scene, and
33:09
Speaker 1: they know who they're dealing with. They knew exactly this couple, sadly,
33:12
Speaker 1: because there were these issues of the domestic violence in
33:15
Speaker 1: the home and he's busted a couple of years earlier.
33:19
Speaker 1: And as your panelists have been talking about, you know,
33:23
Speaker 1: the women, um, you know, going to a judge in
33:26
Speaker 1: this case, in that case file, tragically America has this
33:31
Speaker 1: you know, emotional handwritten note in the case file asking
33:35
Speaker 1: the judge to drop the no contact order and let
33:38
Speaker 1: Savory come home. That it was one argument and that's
33:41
Speaker 1: beyond them now and it's just sort of a tragic,
33:46
Speaker 1: you know, elements of to the bathroom by yourself. It
33:50
Speaker 1: sounds like r Kelly. Doctor Sherry schwartz I says, some
33:56
Speaker 1: people blame the victim here America. But you know what,
34:02
Speaker 1: sometimes you want something so badly, you want to believe
34:10
Speaker 1: you can have this happy home. You don't want to
34:12
Speaker 1: acknowledge what's going on. What is that, doctor Sherry Sports.
34:18
Speaker 1: I mean, I know the word would be denial, but
34:21
Speaker 1: what is that where you are in danger but you
34:25
Speaker 1: still can't get your mind around the reality of how
34:29
Speaker 1: you're living. Well. What we know about this, particularly women
34:34
Speaker 1: who are intimate partner violence victims, is that they do
34:39
Speaker 1: tend to be high in empathy. But also she had
34:42
Speaker 1: been with him for quite some time, at least a
34:45
Speaker 1: few years prior to this other episode, right, so she
34:50
Speaker 1: probably felt that she could manage the situation, and she
34:53
Speaker 1: was clearly afraid of him. If she's telling friends, I
34:57
Speaker 1: can't leave because he will kill me. She's working at
35:00
Speaker 1: the Dollar Tree, so she's not somebody who's very wealthy
35:04
Speaker 1: and can afford to take her family and move to
35:08
Speaker 1: an undisclosed location. And her empathy probably made her feel
35:12
Speaker 1: sorry for him. And I've heard a lot of talk
35:15
Speaker 1: about what she did in terms of asking the judge
35:19
Speaker 1: to please remove this injunction so that they could communicate legally.
35:26
Speaker 1: And what we're not talking about is what he was
35:29
Speaker 1: likely doing to manipulate her into doing that, which is
35:33
Speaker 1: after a violent episode where the person isn't killed, there's
35:37
Speaker 1: this honeymoon phase where the person, the abuser, tends to
35:41
Speaker 1: be very remorseful and manipulate the victim's emotion, saying, you know,
35:47
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, you know, and maybe blames some external reason,
35:51
Speaker 1: maybe I was drunk, or I was high, or even
35:54
Speaker 1: sometimes blames the victim and says, well, you know, when
35:57
Speaker 1: you do that certain thing, it just makes me crazy,
36:00
Speaker 1: and how am I going to survive without you? So
36:03
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that people think about it's
36:06
Speaker 1: not just the victim's behavior, it's what is the perpetrator,
36:10
Speaker 1: the abuser doing behind the scenes to manipulate this victim
36:14
Speaker 1: who's clearly afraid of him. Guys, we are talking about
36:19
Speaker 1: a beautiful young woman now dead, beheaded in broad daylight
36:23
Speaker 1: in a suburban area. If you have a friend or
36:32
Speaker 1: a relative, neighbor, coworker that is suffering from domestic abuse,
36:40
Speaker 1: please you call have her call toll free eight hundred
36:46
Speaker 1: seven nine nine seven two three three repeat eight hundred
36:52
Speaker 1: seven nine nine seven two three three. Paul Bloom, I'd
36:57
Speaker 1: like to know what's going to happen now now, But
37:00
Speaker 1: as long as the elected district attorney does nothing, We
37:05
Speaker 1: don't have the answer to that, do we We don't
37:07
Speaker 1: know at this point. No, obviously if the grand jury
37:11
Speaker 1: process here is secretive, so we have no idea. Again,
37:15
Speaker 1: I know you describe it as a very simple process.
37:17
Speaker 1: So it's certainly not going to defend you know, the
37:19
Speaker 1: county attorneys, you know, actions in recent weeks, but there
37:23
Speaker 1: is a timeline that they do follow here in the
37:26
Speaker 1: courts in Minnesota. So we'll see if we get that
37:28
Speaker 1: first degree murder indictment in the meantime, Just so you know,
37:34
Speaker 1: every grand jury is secret. Take a listen to our
37:39
Speaker 1: cut seventeen our friend Tyler Hunt at crime Online. On
37:43
Speaker 1: the day Thare died, she and Savory went to a
37:45
Speaker 1: park planning to go to a court appearance for an
37:47
Speaker 1: earlier offense. He tells police that on the way, Thayer
37:50
Speaker 1: allegedly says she wants to end their relationship. In Savoy's words,
37:54
Speaker 1: she had gone too far, He admits the police he
37:57
Speaker 1: dragged there from the car, hacking at her with a machete.
38:00
Speaker 1: Police arrived to find Thayer's headless body on the ground
38:02
Speaker 1: next to her bloodied car. Her head was a foot away.
38:06
Speaker 1: She was trying to leave the single most dangerous time
38:10
Speaker 1: for a woman in an abusive relationship. Well it's on
38:16
Speaker 1: the DA now we wait as justice unfolds. God willing
38:22
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing out, goodbye friend,