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Why Are We Always Ready to Throw Hands? · High Five Hot Mess Podcast

• Lisa Wilson: So listen, you guys, I think Lisa and I have accidentally trained our bodies to believe that everything is an emergency. And I don't mean like actual emergencies, I mean an unexpected Teams message, Hey, can you call me? Emergency. You get an email from someone that says, I'm not sure if you noticed, but your last message had typos. Well, listen, now you're just choosing violence. Over the last 20 or 30 years, I think my body got a software update that made everything important. Everything was urgent. Everything feels personal. everything just feels like the final straw. And it got me wondering, when did this happen? Like when did I suddenly become ready to throw hands over everything? So let's get into it. So Lisa, how how are you doing? I put a bra on for this, so we're gonna do it, whether we get through this or not. Like, it's just it's it's today's topic could not be more fitting than to how we are Lisa Smith: Agree. Lisa Wilson: we are both running today. So, you know, our topic is really like why are we both always so ready to throw hands? And what Lisa Smith: Flip some tables. Lisa Wilson: Flip tables. I mean, I will fight you in the street over this one thing. I can honestly say you and I have been this way for thirty years. Like, like Lisa Smith: Yeah, it's it's literally part of my DNA. And I and it's Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: one thing that I actually don't truly love about myself. And Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I have done a lot of work to try to figure out how to react differently, but I'm not I'm not too sure that I've learned a damn thing as of today. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. So, but listen, like I I think that that's not true. I think that you have because I knew 30 year 30 year ago Lisa and I know today Lisa and I think they're different. But if you're anybody, if you're anybody Lisa Smith: Okay, well that's fair. Lisa Wilson: who sees yourself losing your mind, like a out of body experience, and you're like, why are you getting so crazy? And you can't stop yourself. This episode is for you. Right? So listen. When tell me about a time that you declared war when a conversation would Lisa Smith: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: have been enough. Lisa Smith: Literally just with like Amazon. Lisa Wilson: Okay. Lisa Smith: I had an issue with something not being delivered. Okay. And it Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: sounds really silly, but I needed that particular thing, right? So Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: it should be easy that you can just get on and chatty chat chat with someone. And a lot of times they're really good. But I got someone who wasn't, didn't really care that I was. In need of this particular item. And really, do we ever really need anything from Amazon? No, but in Lisa Wilson: No. Lisa Smith: my mind, I thought I did. And Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: it like it was like the sky was falling. Okay. And I they just kept going round and round and round and round and round. And there wasn't a resolution. And where was the item? Am I gonna get a refund? Like all these crazy things back and forth. And I literally started saying. Cause you know how they like kind of talk over you sometimes, like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: like they're reading a script, so they have to get the script like communicated to you Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: regardless. They're just like, I'm sorry for your da-da-da-da-da-da. And then it's like, no, no, no, listen to me. Like, listen. And Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: I literally said, Stop talking, listen. And I was, I was absolutely a person that I didn't want to be on this phone call, but I and I could there was like a voice. Saying, like, stop talking, Lisa, like you're being mean. Like at this point, Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: this poor person is just sitting in a call center, like trying to help you out. And I had lost my ever-loving mind. I was our customer the other day. The one that Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: for something so small. Like it it had, but it wasn't about the item. And it really wasn't, Lisa Wilson: Mm mm. Lisa Smith: it ended up really not being about that particular situation. It was that someone was talking over me, not listening to me, not hearing me out. And I think Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: that just became a bigger problem. That poor Sally on the end of the line I just ripped her face off for nothing. That's terrible. That's awful. Lisa Wilson: I I mean, I think we've all We've all done it. We've all been there. We've all been like, you know, one of my things my my sister-in-law always tells me is that I always think about how I'm gonna feel in a week before I say something. And I really admire that because I do Lisa Smith: Hmm. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: not I don't have that ability at all. So like listen, like I I do this all the time. So if we remember my go bag episode, right? Lisa Smith: Yep. Lisa Wilson: Like I sit around and fantasize about running away from home when I get mad. So like, but this is different. This is like when I get angry and am ready, I mobilize. Like I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: start getting quiet and tactical. And it is Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: not what anybody wants. And I don't know where this lives in my DNA, but like Lisa Smith: Hm, yeah. Lisa Wilson: the last thing that the last time this happened, it was with Doug. Somebody was mean to Doug. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: And because he was such an abused kid, he was, and I get so like defensive and like I literally, Lisa, I'm like, I will learn where your kids go to school, I will learn where your pets are, Lisa Smith: please. Lisa Wilson: I will learn when you leave your house and when you come home, and I will slowly dismantle your life because you hurt my husband's feelings. That's Control, right? Lisa Smith: I mean Lisa Wilson: Like, what? But listen, that's that's how my brain works, right? Is and it's no mercy. Like, no mercy. Now, do I ever do anything? I mean, no. Of course not. That would be crazy. Lisa Smith: No, no, no. Lisa Wilson: But that's I that's the way that my brain works, right? and when we say fight, I just want to be really clear. Lisa and I are not pro violence, and we are not pro Lisa Smith: Not at all. Lisa Wilson: we are not pro putting your hands on someone. Lisa Smith: Never. Lisa Wilson: Or throwing hands at a meeting, right? Or anywhere. But I will embarrass you publicly with my vicious wit. If you do something that hurts me or makes me upset, is it called for? Never. It's never called for. But I was a bullied kid. And I think that that has a lot to kind of do with it. But what we're talking about when we say fight, so we're talking about taking over, controlling, fixing. Preparing arguments, like going over that, like that tactical Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: thing that I just talked about where you're planning out like at midnight, I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna be wearing this and I'm gonna do this. Like, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: you know, like and this is probably one of those moments in my life that I find out not everybody does this. And that's all right. I mean, that's okay. writing emails in your head and be basically, and I thought of you when I read this, you become the CEO of the problem. Right. And so Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: flight is ghosting, quitting, avoiding conversations, canceling plans, like I'm not gonna I'm just gonna I'm just gonna walk away from this problem and pretend it's not happening, or freeze. So you just you don't know what to do. And you you think in your head you're gonna do one thing, but instead you just lock up. So someone's Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: like yelling you at the grocery store, right? And this is a perfect situation where you would normally like you and I are like tactically going after, like throwing hands. We have very different responses. but Lisa Smith: That just happened to me the other day. The lady got mad at me at the supermarket. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. And I'm like, hold and I'm like, hold my baby. Lisa Smith: I know. And I was like, I I just I couldn't believe that she was being so mean to me. I'm like, I'm sorry that I was standing in standing in front of you in the salad bar line and like not moving fast enough. And she just was like, you need it. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I I did the same thing. Like normally normal Lisa would be like, back off, bitch. Like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: move it. But then I was like, I can't say that to somebody who's a little older than I like Dang it. Lisa Wilson: you get what you give when it comes to me, but there Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: are times that I have frozen where I was wildly disappointed that I froze in my and Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: and it happened. And usually it's physical confrontations where I freeze, which makes me so upset because Lisa Smith: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: years of self-defense training for absolutely no reason because Lisa Smith: Ha ha. Lisa Wilson: I just literally freeze. And I and I'm like, and or I like. Don't I try to go in every different direction. Like and I'm not I haven't been in a fight since just get out of touch. But like and Lisa Smith: Just just to get out of dodge, just to get like away from everyone. Lisa Wilson: I have not been in a fight since the sixth grade, like a physical fight. But I Lisa Smith: Good. Lisa Wilson: I took a bunch of self-defense training and I wanted to go from my from my white belt to my yellow belt and then from Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: my yellow belt to my green belt, but I could not go to my green belt unless I let the guy hit me back. And I was like, I mean, all right, we'll try it. And he took one step and I was like, Nope. Walked out. So, and listen, I think that we're both different people in different situations. Lisa Smith: Hm. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: It just depends on what it is. But I have prepared some get to know us questions. So if you Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: are watching us on YouTube, you guys are gonna see that we had cards made up because Lisa and I don't know what we're gonna say. We wanted to do this on the show. One, because I think it's super fun. I clearly don't get out enough. And Lisa Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: had the cards made up, which I absolutely love and I'm gonna frame because I just think they're adorable. but I'm gonna ask the question and then you hold up your card on what your response would be, Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: and we'll go from there. Okay. All right. Nope. Lisa Smith: Yeah, I don't know the questions at all. So Lisa Wilson: I didn't I didn't prepare. I do because she does not. Okay. So Lisa Smith: Yeah. I don't. Okay. Lisa Wilson: the first one, and I don't have a kid, but I'm gonna say I pretend I do, and all these both of us have to answer each one. okay. Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: Your kid starts with, don't get mad. Do you flight, freeze, or fight? Lisa says fight, I say freeze. Cause I'm like, do we need bail money? Like that that's where my head's at. Lisa Smith: No, I automatically are like would be I'm like, what ha what did you what happened? Where you know, who are they? I'm coming out like like I'm going for it. Like and and all he would probably want to say is like mom, I need you to sign this paper for school or something like that. Like it would be something so innocent, and I'd be like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: Who do I need to call? What's going on? Lisa Wilson: Lisa's waving her fight card around because she's she's ready to go. This Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is fun. All right. And I think we both know what I'm gonna do to this one, but I'll I'll ask the question. Lisa Smith: Hmm. Yeah, okay. Lisa Wilson: Your significant other is talking to someone else at a party for a little too long. What are you gonna do? Lisa Smith: Mm. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm leaving. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Lisa's just gonna peace out. She's just gonna leave. And this should be a surprise to no one. I'm gonna fight you, bitch. But I'm not gonna fight her. It's not her fault. It's his fault. And he is gonna get it. That that happens. Lisa's like, Uber home. See you later. Peace out. I love it. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah, that's why I'm I'm just I'm just going home. Yeah. Like have fun and we'll and then you'll know that like I mean you're dying when you get home. So like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: yeah, I'm out. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Okay, so this one, someone gives Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: you a backhanded compliment, like they actually are insulting you. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: How do you respond? Also, we are both freeze. And Lisa Smith: Mm, mm. Lisa Wilson: the reason I think Lisa is that I I don't get backhanded. This sounds so dumb. I don't get backhanded compliments that much. Okay. Lisa Smith: I d I I used to all the time in this company that I worked for. It was majority upper leadership men, which is a lot of companies I've worked for. So like it's not like anyway. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Sh. Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: and some of them didn't know how to how to like give a compliment. So Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: it was always usually a backhanded compliment. And you would sit there and Like the me inside wanted to be like, Are you kidding me right now? You just said that. But I would just sit there and be like, I can't believe they just said that. Like, that's not nice. Like, that wasn't nice. So I should have spoken up for myself, but never did. So yeah, it's happened Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: to me a lot of times. But you apparently never get back-handed compliments. Lisa Wilson: Or I'm just too dumb to pay attention to it. Like I just think I'm so like we know Lisa Smith: I think they happen a lot. Lisa Wilson: self-confidence is not a problem for me. So like I'm probably Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: just like, like this must be you. Like, you know what I mean? Like you must like this is you, it's not me. Like I don't even I this is a you problem. Like Lisa Smith: And this is a you problem, not a me problem? Lisa Wilson: I don't it's very rarely a me problem. All right. So someone tells you to calm down. Lisa Smith: I'm out. Like, I am Lisa Wilson: I am also a fight. Lisa Smith: I'm fight. I'm fight. No Lisa Wilson: you're fight. I'm flight. Lisa Smith: way. I'm not calm. Calm down? What do you mean calm down? I'm not if I'm not calm, I know when I'm not calm. So if I'm not calm, then yeah, you can tell me to calm down. But I'm normally never like level 10. But What will piss me the bleep off is if you tell me to calm down when I'm not ra like raging against the machine. Like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: if it's just you being An idiot? Lisa Wilson: Yeah, I I'm just gonna leave. Lisa Smith: No. I that tell me to calm down. Ooh. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Bothers Lisa Wilson: It doesn't bother me. Okay, but here's one for you. Lisa Smith: me. Lisa Wilson: You're walking down the street, like minding your own business, and a guy's walking past you and says, You should smile. Like, has this ever first of all, before you show your card, has it ever happened to you? Okay, Lisa Smith: Yes, yes. Lisa Wilson: and show your card. You're flight, I'm fight. Lisa Smith: Yeah, no, I just I will just walk away and just be like, What a dumbass. No. Lisa Wilson: And I I will I have literally had this happen where I've turned it around and been like, shut your fucking mouth. Lisa Smith: I've never touched Lisa Wilson: How dare you? Because I feel like I'm carrying the weight of the women movement on my shoulders. And so whenever someone does shit like that, it's so misogynistic Lisa Smith: It it is. Lisa Wilson: that it just triggers me. Like I'm like, like ready literally to fight over that. Lisa Smith: Lisa though why do it's it's an unwritten like comment that is in the male species. They say it to women all the time. like I'm not riding on a rainbow every day. Lisa Wilson: Well and number one, if you knew me, you'd know I never smile. I l I literally do not walk around smiling ever for any reason. Yeah. Lisa Smith: I don't. No. I'm not like I'm at the grocery store. I'm putting gas in my car. I'm like picking up. Lisa Wilson: Does any woman just walk around smiling that's not on serious drugs? Lisa Smith: Yeah, 'cause I want what they're having then. Cause I don't Lisa Wilson: No, dude, they're they're out of their mind. then one last one that is just fun for me personally. Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: So we have a lot of fights. Like which should not surprise anybody who knows us. But but Lisa Smith: Yeah. Wait, we're fighting then we're freezing or f moving on. Lisa Wilson: If you don't know us, you need to know that if if trouble comes calling, Lisa and Lisa are who you want in your corner because we will go toe to toe for you, like for sure. okay, Lisa Smith: That's right. That's right. That's right. Lisa Wilson: so your celebrity crush. Do you have someone in mind? Lisa Smith: Yes. Lisa Wilson: You're you're walking through the mall and you s run right into them. What do you do? Lisa Smith: totally. Freeze. Lisa Wilson: Freeze. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: So I have I have actually had the opportunity to meet Trent Reznor, who was my celebrity crush for a long time, and Lisa Smith: yes. Long, long time. Lisa Wilson: I ran away. I straight up flighted out of there. I had backstage VIP passes. I had an invite into his dressing room. And I Doug Lisa Smith: NO Lisa Wilson: as we were walking in and I was like, Doug, I don't want to do this. And he was like, What what what? Cause he had to move heaven and earth to make this happen Lisa Smith: What do you mean we did all of this? Yes. Lisa Wilson: for me. And I was like, I just I don't want to do this. And he was like, Okay, and he gave our VIP pass to a kid who I swear to God was gonna pass out when he saw what we were giving him. But he looked like a huge fan of nine inch nails and so we gave we gave it all away. Yeah, I ran I couldn't do. Lisa Smith: Yeah. I re I remember I remember that face. I remember that era, that Lisa Wilson era. No, see Lisa Wilson: Yeah, I just I can't do it. I can't do it. Lisa Smith: see I would freeze like we worked in an environment where we saw a lot of famous people, right? A lot. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Smith: I guess it just never it was never like I don't know. You just kind of got used to it a little bit. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Lisa Smith: But if it's my personal, my personal celebrity crush, I'm gonna freeze. Lisa Wilson: Your personal celebrity crush. Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: I wouldn't fangirl to the point where I'd be like, I love you! Like, like, hello, look at me, look at me. Lisa Wilson: Don't they I mean, I know what I did. I ran away. Lisa Smith: Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that. I would just be like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. If you're like, can I can I get you something to drink? Or no. Like, do you need a ride home? Are you Lisa Smith: Don't see me. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: doing okay? Do you feel safe? Lisa Smith: Are you saving this just Lisa Wilson: That's that's the H we are now. Do you feel safe? Are you all right? Do you have money for an Uber? Lisa Smith: Are you hungry? Can I grab you a snack? Lisa Wilson: Trent Runster is so old it'd be like there's a blue light special like right Lisa Smith: Ha ha. Lisa Wilson: around the corner. All right. So one of the things I think Lisa Smith: My god. Lisa Wilson: that that is really like, why are we always ready to throw hands? Which is a hundred percent true for both of us, Lisa Smith: Hm, yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is that I think we are both hyper-vigilant. We are Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: always ready. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yep. We're like we're like the cat. Lisa Wilson: We are like we are always ready in any scenario, in any situation. And you guys, like, I I don't know if I've told the story before, but by hypervigilance, this is really what I mean. Lisa and I are taking a work trip right after September 11th. It was like the first time we had been on a plane after September Lisa Smith: There you go. Lisa Wilson: 11th. And Lisa and I were so stoically ready. Like we got. We got into the row. We were both in an emergency exit row. We legit Lisa Smith: Yeah, we were Lisa Wilson: checked to make sure everyone in the row was capable of if there was an emergency. Like this guy over here looked a little weak. I was worried about him. You and I pointed him out. Like maybe I give him some Lisa Smith: You're like, should we switch them seats? Should we switch out? We're responsible here. Lisa Wilson: money to move. And then we literally read the emergency exit handout. Do you remember that? Lisa Smith: And how many times have we been on airplanes before that? And I don't know why all of a sudden we took it as part of our responsibility sitting in an exit girl. We were. Yeah, we were. Yeah, we were. Yeah. It was. Lisa Wilson: Well we were we were in the emergency exit row. So that's and it was right after September eleventh that Lisa and I literally guys mapped out what we would do. Like Lisa Smith: How we were getting everyone out. Make sure to keep your luggage. Don't grab your luggage. Don't grab your bag. All the things. Lisa Wilson: We were and you and I can't I'm laughing because you guys just don't understand how actually like virtually true this is. Like we I mean I mean Lisa Smith: Like serious. Like there was no laughter. We were helping America. Lisa Wilson: we were helping America. I'm gonna salute to you. Okay, so so when did this start? Do you think that we've always been this way? Like for you. Like you've been this way as long as I've known you, and I've been this you've you I've been this way as long as you've known me. So at least 30 years. So we can't blame Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Lisa Wilson: par we can't blame menopause. It is what it is. We're just hyper, hyper vigilant. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: So so do you think that Lisa Smith: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: our parents did this to us? Like, cause I was thinking about this. Like you are I am I am the middle child and the only girl. And you are the oldest child Lisa Smith: Yeah. The oldest. Lisa Wilson: and the only girl. So that's not it. Like, nope. Lisa Smith: No, I'm not the only girl. Yep. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I am an optimist, you are a pessimist. That's not it. I am married, you were divorced. That's not it. So what is it that caused us to kind of have this hyper vigilance and like always be ready to like whatever comes our way? Lisa Smith: Well, I think for me, it was like trying to stay alive, like growing up, you know, was like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I mean, we were again, we it was kind of like feral living, as we've talked about before. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: Not for any particular reason. It's not like we didn't have parents, like it's not like they didn't care about us and love us. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: It was more the sign like the sign of the times and just how things were. And looking back at some of the things that I think You know, we did back then. I I don't know how we stayed alive, to be honest. And so I was always ready to like, okay, I just went and I just told my mom I was at the movies, but really I'm at this like raging party, like with Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: grown ass adults. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: And I have to figure out how to get back to the like. You're always you were we were always scheming and always like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: ready to like, okay, but if they ask us this, this is what we're gonna say. And like if if if they see us drag in Maine, you know, dragging Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: the boulevard, if they see us because they're went to go to the grocery store and we're like in the back of someone's like truck. Like what am I gonna say? Lisa Wilson: So again, we've mentioned this, but our teenagers were very different. Like I went home, like I we used to go to punk rock gigs in the middle of the desert. Literally, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: like no people around. It was all like Lord of the Flies, Punk Rock. And Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: like my friends all left me once, and I had to go home with the band who were grown-ass men who were like, I don't want to take this. And I was 14 years old. Lisa Smith: yeah. Lisa Wilson: So everyone just stop and look at your 14 year old child and imagine them in the in the back of like a a band van with the band. That's yeah, I don't know. So Lisa Smith: You're like, and that happened. Lisa Wilson: so one of the things that I I cause I thought about this too. And so for me, I think it's definitely like we trained our brains to believe Lisa Smith: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: that everything was high stakes. Like Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: everything was just as important as everything else. And I think that. Lisa Smith: Everything was gonna kill us, everything was gonna ruin our career, everything was going to yeah, everything was like it was all or nothing. Lisa Wilson: Yep. A hundred percent. Right. So and I and I for me, control is a trauma response. I say that all the time. But I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: felt like because things for me as a kid were so like so out of control and there was no adult around as a child. Like I remember waking up at like five in the morning naturally. I was always an early riser. Imagine the delight to my parents when they had the small child roaming Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha Lisa Wilson: the house at 5 a.m. every day. But I remember planning out exactly what I was gonna do every minute of the day just to make sure I didn't get surprised by anything. Like Lisa Smith: Well yeah. Lisa Wilson: you know. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Well I I'm a chronic list maker. I have been my whole entire Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: life and I haven't gotten any better. I mean, I I made like Franklin Covey a quatrillion dollars because I wrote Lisa Wilson: I mean we both did. Lisa Smith: down everything, made 900 lists, moved Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: my priorities to the next day. Like that was just kind of how we were raised, I think, in an environment Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Well, no, our parents had no plans. Lisa Smith: Well, like raised in the our career environment, that was very much so like part Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Lisa Smith: of part of that. But yeah, at home, no. But I still do it today. I don't need a planner at all. Like everything's automated. But will I write down a list every day of the things I need to do so I can check them off? And so that I can make sure that if something doesn't I don't get something done, I can make sure that I plan on when I'm gonna get it done. The problem that I have planning everything out to this level that I do, I get disappointed a lot. I disappoint myself a lot because I don't get everything done. And I don't Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: want to to always feel like I have to have things to do. But I think that's also part of like trauma in your in as you just said, like I have to control something and I can control a list, right? Lisa Wilson: That's right. Lisa Smith: I can control when I feel like things are so out of control, because things have been very out of control. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: So yeah. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. And I think chronic stress, hypervigilance, high pressure careers right now, like, and this is one of the things I will say about menopause Lisa Smith: Mm. Okay. Lisa Wilson: is that it puts a big old emphasis on feelings. So today I'm walking around my house and we are taking a trip tomorrow. We're traveling for work. We're gonna go see family. Before I take a trip, I like to do all of my my wash, all of my sheets, my heavy blanket. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: And I put everything in this container that I bought explicitly for that. Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: So that when I come home, everything is clean, but it's not like dusty or shoved into a drawer, like it's in a pristine thing that I really like. That control is a trauma response. So Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I couldn't find it today. And I was like, I don't have time to go get one. Like, you guys. And when I tell you, Doug was like, well, let's just go into the garage and pull. I have a huge Tupperware. It's like, I'll just pull that down. I'm like, are you drunk? That is filthy. I'm not gonna put my like I lost my ever-loving mind. I mean, and I I know. I know. I know he was, Lisa Smith: And he was he was just trying to provide you a solution and you didn't Lisa Wilson: but I was like. Lisa Smith: that wasn't the solution that you wanted, so you lost your ever loving mind. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: No. And it's happened, poor Doug. Like I took it out on him today twice, right? But like one of the thes Lisa Smith: I witnessed one of them. Lisa Wilson: you sure did when we joined this call, my headphones weren't working. but when was the last time, Lisa, you totally overreacted, but later realized it this this meltdown I had was not about the situation. It was about something else. Lisa Smith: Well, if you know, you know it was never about the couch. So we're just gonna put that out there. It was never about the couch. so that's one of Lisa Wilson: I know, it's never about the couch. Mm-hmm. Yep. Lisa Smith: And I think another one gosh, it I feel like it's been happening to me lately where I will kind of yeah, kind of lose my cool Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: and think that The next day, like for real, honestly, for real. Like Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: it was not about yeah, the situation just became much bigger because I didn't let go of some like I wasn't going to s let go of something, right? Like either I had to make a point or and I don't I don't normally fight with people. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: But when I do, I just sometimes just go, are you kidding me? Because that's just not part of my nature. Like like yelling fight. Like I don't like to do that because it just, I don't know. But Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. But do you find like the older you get, the quicker you are to yelling? Because for me, Lisa Smith: Yes. Lisa Wilson: like that was that was the point I made 25 minutes ago was that with Lisa Smith: Yes. Lisa Wilson: menopause happening to me, I feel like things that I I'm always hyper vigilant and I'm always ready to throw hands. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: But the difference is I'm mean. Like I have been so Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: mean and so like sharp to cut someone down. And it's not like, and again, it's one of those outer body experiences, right? Where like I'm like, why did I just do that? Like, and Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: it's never about the person in front of me or the situation. It's like something beyond my control. I really feel like it's menopause. I really feel like the mean aspect and the like the anger aspect is definitely menopause. Cause I was never angry. Would I fight in the street? A hundred percent. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: But I would not like scream and yell like it like that. I wouldn't get let myself get so red, like hostile, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: you know? Lisa Smith: Yeah. So I mean, I I I've said this before. I've had a couple situations with my son that were never about the that small situation. It was a Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: lot of stress that I was going through somewhere else. And one little thing made me just kind of go into orbit, which Again, it's just so terrible. And then you just feel so guilty. And it's like, why did I why did I raise my voice? It was not about the puzzle not being picked up or whatever it was. Like it wasn't about that. It was about Lisa Wilson: Mm. No. Lisa Smith: trying to get ready for something. And then it just snowballs, right? And I think Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: we have to give ourselves a little grace. Like I'm trying to do that. It's definitely Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: not easy, but I can tell you that I my fuse is much shorter than. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: than it used to be. And and I I I don't know. I d I don't love it. I don't love it at all. but yeah, I've noticed. I've noticed. Lisa Wilson: No, no. But I mean something something and I've I've seen this all over the gram, Facebook. It's a big thing on social media. It's a big thing in podcasts right now. And like just to be clear, Lisa and I are not doctors. We're not gonna do a TED talk on this. Lisa Smith: No. Lisa Wilson: All we can talk about is like what's happening to us. But one of the things that I I think that I heard on on a podcast, somebody else's podcast, was maybe the question isn't why am I angry? Maybe it's Maybe I'm this way because I am I've been this way for too long. Like I've been on high alert for so long Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: that I'm fried. And that really resonated with me. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. I mean, so I can probably say that that I mean, I'll join that club because Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I think I have been in fight or flight for so many years that Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: I like my immediate reaction is like, rah! Let's get it done and then move on. It's Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: when you it's when you can't move on because damage has been created or feelings have been hurt or things like that. It just drags on, I guess. So Lisa Wilson: Amen, sister. Lisa Smith: it's just not it's not healthy. It's not worth it. But I don't think that we're the only ones that have a short fuse right now. Lisa Wilson: No, and I I think that if you look at the populace of kind of what's happening, like we've got social Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: media with rage bait and doom scrolling and like sister Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: wives are divorcing and fighting and it's like it's just like you know, reality couples are getting Lisa Smith: And then getting back with Marciano, like what's happening? Like I just don't get it. Like a whole season. Lisa Wilson: I don't know either. But we all kind of lost our minds a little bit, you know? So like I I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I think that that, like, it's like a pressure cooker, right? So Lisa Smith: Hm. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: you take two people like us who have always been hyper-vigilant because it's in our it's how we were born and raised and raised ourselves and became these hyper, hyper-vigilant, high-functioning women who take care Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: of everything for everyone. And Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: it just, I think that it's It's a little challenging to say, okay, so so what do we go? How do we fix this? Like, where do we go from here? So I think we've talked about why we're like this. We've talked about it could be everything together. We we Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: know that being like this for so long drives up cortisol, makes you unhealthy, makes you swollen, makes you and then throw in menopause into that pot, and God Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: help everybody. I mean, my husband probably is gonna move away. Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: for sure. But like, what are some of the things that that you've done to try? Cause I mean, we are both very much into repair or repeat, right? So we repair the damage that we're doing, either we repair why we're doing this or we're gonna repeat it over and over and over like a hamster Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: on a wheel, right? So, what are some things that you've done that actually helps with this? Lisa Smith: Okay, so I think I think my My anger response, if that's really what it I mean, it's really just an anger response. I think that was heightened many years ago, probably a lot more than it is today, to be honest. and what I've tried to do is just ask myself if this is gonna be worth it. Like to, okay, let's just say it's you and a friend that Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: are having a disagreement. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: But your friend is always like Like the one that will push and push and push and push and push and push and push. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: And before you would just push back and there would always be this big blow up and then and then you guys don't talk for a year. What if it to me I started saying like to myself, is this worth me because I know what this person's gonna do, right? Like you can't Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: control what other people do. I know what how this person is gonna react if I push back, if I add gasoline. So I just stopped adding gasoline and I started just like a hundred percent flight mode. Like, I'll just Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: keep quiet. I'm not gonna rock the boat, I'm not going to I'm not gonna push back or call you out on what you're doing or whatever. but then so I think that helped me keep some relationships going longer Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: without having this big massive blow-up. But I don't think it's gonna last forever because I feel like I'm now being suffocated by not being able to speak my truth, right? Like, Lisa Wilson: Yes. Lisa Smith: why do my always the one that has to be like? the adult in the room. Sometimes I just don't want to and sometimes I want to let you know that you're being a bitch. You know? And Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yes. Lisa Smith: so why should I have to shut up? Lisa Wilson: Yeah. And you shouldn't. Like never I mean, I'm always the one to be like, You should tell them Lisa Smith: Yeah, no, I know I know you are. I know you are. But like Lisa Wilson: I'm like, I wouldn't take that chip for a second. Lisa Smith: but sometimes it's just so much harder. It's like not worth it. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: It's it's not it the the cake the cake is not worth the bake. Lisa Smith: Yeah. There you go. That's a good one. Lisa Wilson: That's been the thing that's been in all the meetings this week. Okay, so one of the things because I thought about this, because we all, I mean, two things that I really, really struggle with. So I got bullied ruthlessly as a kid. So I Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: have a very short fuse when it comes to people being mean to me or mean to the people that I love. Like no fuse. So because of that, and because I truly believe that what you allow, you encourage. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: So if people are being selfless, not respectful, mean to you, if it's somebody that you're gonna encounter all the time, you have to confront that and get it resolved. Like I Lisa Smith: Yeah, but what if the other person doesn't want we'll never resolve it? Okay. Lisa Wilson: Then I never talk to them again. I will cut them off like a dead limp and move on and never think about it again. Like I mean, but that's I mean, I have I can do that, right? Like I Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: my favorite person is me. So I don't need that person. They need me, you know? So it's like, all right. but I did do I had something in my life that if anybody said something to me about it, I would literally fall apart. And Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: I like could not do it. So In the the name of the high five hunt, I will kick us off by saying something that I used to do that I did that helped me that I don't do anymore is therapy. So Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: I used to be very sensitive about my weight because of all of the above, everything we just talked about. And if somebody said, like, like have you know, have you lost weight? I immediately would like start to fear, like I would feel it in my heart. I'd fill it in my stomach and I'm like, they think I'm fat. And like being called fat was the worst possible thing that could happen to me. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: And it was just this deep-seated shame that I kind of carried around that really was keeping me from living a happy life. And it was actually a root cause of a lot of different problems that I had. And I would literally, like if someone told me I was actually fat, like if a kid said it, so I mean, I would, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I would not come out of my room. Like I was Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: I would go fetal, right? So that's not a healthy or normal response in any way. And nobody should ever feel that way. Mine was clearly tied to trauma. So I went to therapy and I did cognitive behavioral therapy with Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: a doctor that was a psychiatrist that was amazing. And she was like, we went through like I had to tell her all these horrible things that people had said to me throughout my life, you know, and like things that my parents had said to me without out of love, but like that were. Scarring that nobody would ever say to their kids today, hopefully. And Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: by the end of that therapy, I I don't know how it happened. It was about two years of like weekly therapy. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I don't carry that shame anymore. Now, like someone says something to me, and I'm like, because I don't care anymore. Right? No, you shouldn't. You absolutely Lisa Smith: I mean you shouldn't. I don't yeah, you I mean you shouldn't. Lisa Wilson: should not, but should and are different things, right? So Lisa Smith: Absolutely, because that's that was something that was triggering for you. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: But I mean, I don't I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: No, it's it's it's weight. Like, but it was just so much a part of how I saw myself. So when I got therapy and I worked on all the different tactics that I deploy for C B T therapy that really helped me let go of that. So that's my high five. What is a high five for you? Meaning something that you used to really care a lot about and now you're like, I don't care. Lisa Smith: I think being right. I don't I mean, I I used to always feel like I needed to have the last word or like or prove my point or it's just exhausting, really, honestly. And at the end of the day, who cares? Like if somebody can feel like they're it's their idea or like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I mean that's that's what I think has helped me is just not not needing to be right. Like I don't have Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: to have the last word. And and I think that that's helped in certain conversations. I mean, am I perfect at that? No. But I also am so much better. And it's just, it's kind of like a weight Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: have been have, you know, has been lifted off. Also, I would say I probably have too. I I actually just won't Yeah, kinda won't talk to you anymore if you are ha like making me Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: like frustrated all the time or or I'm feeling like I'm constantly walking on eggshells or or Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I feel like I have to rearrange my entire life to have you in my life. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: The older I get, the easier it is I'm cutting people out. Like is that normal? Lisa Wilson: I think so. I mean, I Lisa Smith: Like Lisa Wilson: according to Lisa, yes. And and I will say that I think the internet supports that. I think the internet supports Lisa Smith: I don't know. I don't know. Lisa Wilson: that because there's a lot of conversations around how hard it is to make friends in our older age. And I think it's because we don't have taught like and and I'll just say this and it will I'll explain it. Hopefully it will explain what I mean by that. So I went on a walk with a friend, a friend Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: from high school. No, like they were we were right or die. We'd grown apart, came back together, like someone else I know. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: And we were walking, but my friend from work called that I'd been waiting to talk to because she had like a window like this to talk to me. And so I was talking to her, and it ended up Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: being like 30 minutes of a 50 minute walk. And this person that I was on the walk with was so mad at me because they were like, I just felt like you totally just shut me out, like on that, on that call. And I had things Lisa Smith: Shape. Lisa Wilson: I wanted to talk about. Like I I have things I need to talk about today too. And like you just didn't really open that pathway for me. And I was like, well, number one, like that was a work call. I needed to take that call. And number two, like, I'm not that kind of friend. So if that's what you're looking for, this ain't it. You know? Lisa Smith: Did she wanna resolve like old things or or or did she wanna talk about her cat? Like what Lisa Wilson: I don't know. I don't know. I think she was I mean, sh she was telling me about TV shows she was watching at the time Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: and I just was like, all right, like it again, but this is my point. It's hard to be our age and start over and make new friends. And I'm always also suspicious. Lisa Smith: Yeah, I'm realizing that. I'm realizing that here. Like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: being in a new town and and my friends are none of my friends live here. And so Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: it's also trying to keep up with friendships that Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: were really, really important and are really, really important to you. Like I'm not saying were, like past tense, but like are. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: But like how do you maintain it? Like when everybody's lives are so busy, you're not just gonna sit on the phone and chat all night. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: So And we live now so far away from each from a lot of you know, I live far away from a lot of my friends. And anyway, I am Lisa Wilson: No. Lisa Smith: I'm realizing like, okay, I have to get out and make new friends. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. But you know, we've got stuff to do. It's a lot of work. And like Lisa Smith: But it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Lisa Wilson: I'm more interested in spending my time trying to figure out like how I can not always be on high alert. Right. So like conversations Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: like this are much where I'd much rather spend my time because I feel like we both get to talk about and tackle like these crazy things. Like it's not healthy. It's not good for your body to be on high alert all the time. Lisa Smith: Yeah, it's not. Lisa Wilson: And to be hyper vigilant. And you and I have talked about this so many times of how are we going to be better? And Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I I I think we're both getting a little bit better, but then the inverse of that is we might be a little more mean. Lisa Smith: I I'll probably have to agree with you on that. Like, and I don't want to be a mean girl. I don't. I don't. Lisa Wilson: No, I don't either, but Lisa Smith: But you know, I'm just yeah, I'm losing my patience, I think. I think that's a lot of Lisa Wilson: Yeah. A hundred percent. Lisa Smith: it. I just don't really have patience for the shenanigans. Lisa Wilson: Nope. And listen, like if you're someone out there right now that is always that hyper vigilant, hyper engaged resolution queen or king for all of your friends and all of your family, like we see you, but it's not healthy. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Like make someone else do something. Make someone else bring the casserole. You know what I'm saying? Like Lisa Smith: We are not the poster children for healthy behaviors. So. Lisa Wilson: No, we we are not. I mean, you should have seen me 30 minutes ago. I was losing my damn mind. Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: So I think that I thought this was a really good way of kind of looking at our world, they said and our hypervigilance and the always ready mentality, and really talk about like How can we not be quite so ready to throw hands? And I think the answer we came up with is just don't engage. Stay home. Lisa Smith: I mean it's probably safer for us and everyone else at this point Lisa Wilson: So are you mostly fight? Flight or freeze, make sure you tell us in the comments. And if we missed a scenario that you're like, how did they not talk about this? Like Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: at a BTS concert, number one, it's coming. But number two, put it in the comments. We want to hear about it. Like, tell Lisa Smith: Yeah, we want to hear about it. Lisa Wilson: us your scenario, your fight, flight, or freeze. And if today's episode made you think, okay, I thought this was just me. I thought I was losing my mind or I thought I was just super, super mean. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: it's not you, right? So don't worry about it. Lisa Smith: And it wasn't about the couch. It's not about the couch. It never was. Lisa Wilson: It's not about the couch, you guys. It's not. And listen, share this episode with people who need to know it's not about the couch, right? Because maybe this is your way of starting out those conversations that might be a little harder to have. I love it. But okay, so you guys, please make sure that you roll your shoulders back. Make sure that you stay hydrated. Make sure you unclench jaw. My God, we're not, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we're not gonna find anyone today, right? And go hide. Lisa Smith: We're not fighting. Lisa Wilson: Somebody do that instead, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: all right, guys. Thanks so much. Have a great week. I'll talk to you later. Okay, bye. Lisa Smith: Have good week. Bye.