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The Hidden Appeal of the Angels GM Job · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Roster Syrings. I am
0:08
Speaker 1: your host, Chet West. The man across from me, or
0:11
Speaker 1: on the monitor across from me is that Levine. Here's
0:14
Speaker 1: your co host. We have an incredible show today. We're
0:18
Speaker 1: gonna break down this little leadership change out in Anaheim
0:22
Speaker 1: that happened with Perrymansian. We're also going to do some
0:25
Speaker 1: listener questions. You know, we love those, so we'll save
0:28
Speaker 1: those to the end, so you got to stick around
0:29
Speaker 1: to get to those. But let's talk about Perrymnasian and
0:34
Speaker 1: the Angels and his firing. That you're general manager in
0:40
Speaker 1: baseball for years, You're still working in baseball front offices
0:44
Speaker 1: to this day. You see something like this pop up.
0:48
Speaker 1: I as a fan, I look at this, and I
0:51
Speaker 1: look at all the missteps this franchise is taking. These
0:53
Speaker 1: guys these are not the Angels. Typically, when the players
0:58
Speaker 1: do voting on franchises and you like a bottom five,
1:01
Speaker 1: top five, they just did it. They kind of tore
1:03
Speaker 1: the Angels a new one. All sorts of commentary around
1:08
Speaker 1: winning wasn't a priority. Facilities are outdated, analytics outdated, you know,
1:14
Speaker 1: And then we go back and we look at Perrymnasien's
1:17
Speaker 1: career with the Angels, and we had this a whole
1:20
Speaker 1: bunch of very lucrative contracts, expensive players that really didn't
1:27
Speaker 1: pay off for the organization in the end, especially in
1:30
Speaker 1: the early days of his tenure. What do you make
1:33
Speaker 1: of these? I'm looking at names like Vernon Wells, Anthony
1:36
Speaker 1: Rendon's one that sticks out in my mind as a fan,
1:39
Speaker 1: just some of the commentary that he's made over the past,
1:42
Speaker 1: you know, Josh Hamilton, Albert Pooholz or Hey solaire yuse Kakuchi.
1:46
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on kind of just how some
1:48
Speaker 1: of those deals worked out and how they came to
1:50
Speaker 1: be well.
1:51
Speaker 2: Well, to defend Perry for a second here, he was
1:54
Speaker 2: not responsible for a few of those guys on the list,
1:57
Speaker 2: the last few he was in or Hayesel and you
2:00
Speaker 2: say Kakuchi, But I think what you're referring to Chet
2:03
Speaker 2: here is a few things. One is it's just you know, hey, listen,
2:06
Speaker 2: every general manager has made mistakes. Like there would be
2:11
Speaker 2: a hell of a coffee table read if we all
2:13
Speaker 2: listed all of the players we signed that we regretted
2:16
Speaker 2: having signed some of the trades that we wish we
2:18
Speaker 2: had made that we didn't make up, so the Anaheim
2:21
Speaker 2: Angels are not exempt from that. You just listed a
2:24
Speaker 2: bunch of guys who, unfortunately were paid a lot of money,
2:27
Speaker 2: took up a huge percentage of their payroll, and unfortunately
2:30
Speaker 2: didn't pan out. A lot of those guys either had
2:33
Speaker 2: their their performance really subsided or and or they got
2:37
Speaker 2: injured a lot. But I think two guys that really
2:39
Speaker 2: jump off that list to me, chet are both Vernon
2:42
Speaker 2: Wells and Anthony Rendon't And the reason why was the
2:46
Speaker 2: rumors At the time, I was not working for Anaheim,
2:48
Speaker 2: so I don't know this is for a fact, but
2:50
Speaker 2: I do know that when I was working for the
2:53
Speaker 2: Texas Rangers in the off season to twenty ten, we
2:56
Speaker 2: were pursuing Cliffley. We were trying to extend him. He
3:00
Speaker 2: was a huge part of our World Series run in
3:02
Speaker 2: twenty ten. When he ultimately signed with the Philadelphia Phillies,
3:06
Speaker 2: we immediately went to the next guy in our list,
3:09
Speaker 2: and that happened to be Adrian Beltray. It was our
3:11
Speaker 2: understanding at the time we were competing with the Anaheim
3:14
Speaker 2: Angels for Adrian services. He was their first choice and
3:18
Speaker 2: we ultimately signed Adrian, which turned out to be an
3:21
Speaker 2: absolute watershed moment for the Texas Rangers. Adrian Beltray ultimately
3:25
Speaker 2: goes into the Hall of Fame wearing a Texas Rangers hat.
3:28
Speaker 2: But they then went down their list and next on
3:31
Speaker 2: their list was to make a trade with the Toronto
3:33
Speaker 2: Blue Jays and acquire Vernon Wells, who was under a very,
3:36
Speaker 2: very lucrative contract with the Toronto Blue Jays. It didn't
3:41
Speaker 2: necessarily pan out. Now, fast forward to the offseason of
3:45
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. Anthony Rendon had established himself as one of
3:49
Speaker 2: the best offensive players in the game. He was a
3:52
Speaker 2: pre eminent third baseman in the game, but that wasn't
3:55
Speaker 2: their target in the offseason. The rumor was that the
3:57
Speaker 2: Anaheim Angels were pursuing Garret at the time. Garrett Cole
4:01
Speaker 2: ultimately and famously signs with the New York Yankees and
4:04
Speaker 2: goes on to have exceptional run there. So they went
4:07
Speaker 2: to their next guy in their list, Anthony Rendon. It's
4:10
Speaker 2: not often that the next guy on your list proves
4:12
Speaker 2: to be that big of a gap from the first
4:14
Speaker 2: guy in your list. In this case, it does. Now.
4:16
Speaker 2: The other wrinkle here, chet is that Anthony Rendon and
4:20
Speaker 2: Garret Cole are both represented by Scott Boris, so in
4:24
Speaker 2: vision if you will, how seamless, this transition is when
4:27
Speaker 2: Scott Boris calls him and says, I'm sorry to report
4:30
Speaker 2: that you finished in second place for this.
4:33
Speaker 1: I've got some for you over here.
4:35
Speaker 2: But look behind door two, I've got the next guy
4:38
Speaker 2: in line. And they effectively just pick up negotiations where
4:42
Speaker 2: they left off. They sign Anthony Rendon. It unfortunately proves
4:46
Speaker 2: to be a deal that really hamstrings this franchise for
4:50
Speaker 2: years to come. They finally get out from underneath it
4:53
Speaker 2: coming into this year, but those two deals, as is
4:57
Speaker 2: kind of like fallbacks for them, proved to be manic
5:00
Speaker 2: drop offs from their original targets.
5:02
Speaker 1: I believe they've restructured Rendoon to some degree and he'll
5:05
Speaker 1: be getting paid by them for a little while. That said, yeah,
5:08
Speaker 1: I don't even think he played over the last two
5:10
Speaker 1: years due to injury, and he made a lot of
5:13
Speaker 1: just sort of questionable comments years back, I believe it
5:16
Speaker 1: was twenty twenty four, he did an interview talking about
5:19
Speaker 1: baseball and the priority that baseball kind of carried with him,
5:22
Speaker 1: and look, some of that stuff was very understandable. I mean,
5:26
Speaker 1: as a fan, I sit and listen to him kind
5:29
Speaker 1: of you know, he's like, my family and God are
5:32
Speaker 1: one and two, and then baseball falls somewhere beyond that.
5:35
Speaker 1: And he acted very contrite about not really even wanting
5:38
Speaker 1: to be there in an interview, not wanting to talk
5:41
Speaker 1: to anybody. He just didn't seem to be terribly happy
5:45
Speaker 1: or content with baseball at the time. Now I'm not
5:48
Speaker 1: blaming this all on the Angels, okay, but it didn't
5:53
Speaker 1: sound like a player that was happy to be playing
5:55
Speaker 1: baseball at that point in time. He had made his money,
5:58
Speaker 1: and it's was it because he was with the Angels.
6:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. We can't say, right, I.
6:05
Speaker 2: Think it's I think it's a really good insight because,
6:08
Speaker 2: you know, as baseball has turned to analytics and we're
6:11
Speaker 2: really all working with these really advanced models to help
6:13
Speaker 2: inform our decisions, the one thing that these models do
6:16
Speaker 2: not account for is a player's make up, his desire
6:19
Speaker 2: to play. The thing I hate to inform listeners who
6:23
Speaker 2: are also fans. You and I are big fans of
6:25
Speaker 2: is I've been around a lot of professional athletes in
6:27
Speaker 2: my career. I feel very blessed for having done so.
6:30
Speaker 2: Not all of them actually love the sport they're playing.
6:33
Speaker 2: They're not, as you know, they're not willing to run
6:36
Speaker 2: through a brick wall to win. We as fans, we
6:38
Speaker 2: want them to want that. But in practice, and this
6:41
Speaker 2: isn't an indictment meant to be an indictment of Anthony
6:44
Speaker 2: Rendon by any stretch. I've encountered quite a few of
6:46
Speaker 2: these guys. He may not have had that blood lust
6:50
Speaker 2: for baseball that we want players. And when you get
6:53
Speaker 2: paid at the level he got paid, you also want
6:55
Speaker 2: him to be a leader. Well, Anthony Rendon probably wasn't
6:58
Speaker 2: cut out to be a leader. He didn't ask. Yeah,
7:00
Speaker 2: he just wanted to be the guy who goes in there,
7:02
Speaker 2: and he's one of the best right hand hitters in
7:04
Speaker 2: the game. When that faltered for him, there wasn't a
7:07
Speaker 2: lot for him to fall back on. Whereas sometimes when
7:10
Speaker 2: you sign these guys and they underachieve a little bit,
7:13
Speaker 2: like I will, you know, share my experience with Carlos
7:16
Speaker 2: Korea with the Minnesota Twins. Even when Carlos faltered a
7:20
Speaker 2: little bit offensively, he was such a leadership presence in
7:23
Speaker 2: the clubhouse that he still was able to make some
7:25
Speaker 2: real contributions to the team, and you could kind of
7:27
Speaker 2: justify maybe some of the struggles he's having and weather
7:30
Speaker 2: the storm. When guys who have a little bit less
7:33
Speaker 2: passion for the game and a little and probably far
7:37
Speaker 2: less interest in being a leader faltered, there's nothing for
7:39
Speaker 2: them to fall back on.
7:40
Speaker 1: Do you now? And I'm not I don't not asking
7:43
Speaker 1: you to say yes or no on this. I always
7:45
Speaker 1: felt like Carlos Korea, you know, his deal with the
7:48
Speaker 1: Twins was sort of some consolation prize of sorts, and
7:51
Speaker 1: the second he got traded back to the Astros, I
7:54
Speaker 1: believe he did kind of pop off there for a
7:56
Speaker 1: few months. In his first couple of months back with
7:58
Speaker 1: the Astros, it's like he was bad. He was happy
8:00
Speaker 1: to be there, and I believe there were some reports
8:02
Speaker 1: about that he was just kind of happy to be
8:05
Speaker 1: with the organization he wanted to be with. So when
8:07
Speaker 1: I looked at Rendon and I look at the Angels,
8:09
Speaker 1: and you look at some of the Angels, you know,
8:12
Speaker 1: some of these other failed contracts and these other players
8:15
Speaker 1: that went there and kind of did not play up
8:17
Speaker 1: to whatever their ability was prior to making those deals,
8:20
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it was the environment that Rendon was
8:23
Speaker 1: put into and it just wasn't motivating for him to
8:25
Speaker 1: a degree. But at the same time, as contracts such
8:27
Speaker 1: an albatross, they're not going to trade him off anywhere.
8:30
Speaker 1: Nobody's going to take him, especially with the performance, right,
8:33
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't exactly performing up to a two
8:35
Speaker 1: hundred and forty some million dollar deal over seven years.
8:39
Speaker 1: Is that is there? Do you think there's anything to
8:41
Speaker 1: read in there? Or are we stretching this a little
8:43
Speaker 1: bit too far?
8:44
Speaker 2: Is this well, I think it's a little bit. It's
8:45
Speaker 2: a little bit of the chicken in the egg, which
8:47
Speaker 2: is is it that the environment wasn't great or did
8:50
Speaker 2: they just not necessarily invest in the right types of
8:53
Speaker 2: leaders there to create the environment, Because keep in mind
8:56
Speaker 2: and shut this is dating ourselves a little bit. In
8:58
Speaker 2: two thousand and two they won the World's For the
9:00
Speaker 2: decade after that, they were the class of the American
9:02
Speaker 2: League West.
9:03
Speaker 1: They were They were quite good.
9:04
Speaker 2: Yes, perennial playoff contending teams and they had a run,
9:09
Speaker 2: but they also had exceptional leadership on those teams, and
9:13
Speaker 2: it was up and down the lineup in the pitching staff,
9:15
Speaker 2: So I think they've been hunting that ever since. Maybe
9:19
Speaker 2: they've got the right nucleus there right now. But I
9:21
Speaker 2: do think that'll be part of the turnaround conversation about
9:24
Speaker 2: this franchise as we monitor what's next for the Anaheim Angels.
9:28
Speaker 1: I'll be curious to see how that all works out.
9:30
Speaker 1: I want to jump over to another piece of this topic.
9:32
Speaker 1: And you've got Trout not Tani. Okay, you got two
9:35
Speaker 1: generational talents playing together. You had poolholes in there for
9:39
Speaker 1: a little while towards it, you know. I mean you're
9:41
Speaker 1: seeing probably more of the twilight of his career between
9:45
Speaker 1: Trout and a Tani. We never saw him playing a
9:46
Speaker 1: playoff together for the Angels. We saw Trout in one playoff,
9:50
Speaker 1: twelve played appearances, went one for twelve. Now, these are
9:53
Speaker 1: guys that are going to be first ballot Hall of Famers. Okay,
9:57
Speaker 1: we're talking about Mike. Trout was largely for most of
10:02
Speaker 1: the teams the twenty teams, considered one of the best,
10:06
Speaker 1: if not the best baseball player on the planet. We
10:11
Speaker 1: get no postseason with them. Is this when it comes
10:13
Speaker 1: to roster building and you've got these guys we always
10:15
Speaker 1: talk about going out and getting the big guy.
10:17
Speaker 3: Right.
10:17
Speaker 1: We always talk about going out and getting that big
10:19
Speaker 1: ticket guy at trade deadlines or in free agency, and
10:23
Speaker 1: I believe a lot of the Angels money went to
10:26
Speaker 1: mister Trout after a while there. What do you think
10:29
Speaker 1: from a roster construction standpoint, where did they miss in this?
10:34
Speaker 2: Well? I think when you say that, it's I mean,
10:36
Speaker 2: it's staggering. Every time you read that stat, every time
10:39
Speaker 2: you hear about that stat. These are arguably the two
10:43
Speaker 2: best players of our recent generation. Chet in terms of
10:47
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball players. Trout was was, you know, for
10:50
Speaker 2: a decade, the best player in the game. And know
10:51
Speaker 2: Tani picked up right where he left off, and maybe
10:54
Speaker 2: he's been the best player since that moment, and these
10:57
Speaker 2: are transcendent stars in the game, you know. I guess
11:00
Speaker 2: I harkened back to for any of us who've played
11:03
Speaker 2: fantasy football, when you're in an auction draft and you
11:05
Speaker 2: spend ninety percent of your budget on your top two
11:07
Speaker 2: running backs, it's tough to fill the team. Sometimes you
11:10
Speaker 2: can do that when you're only starting ten players in
11:13
Speaker 2: a fantasy football format. You absolutely cannot when you've got
11:16
Speaker 2: a twenty six man roster to fill out, and I
11:18
Speaker 2: think what you're just seeing through that is the strength
11:21
Speaker 2: of the players that they had around them was not
11:23
Speaker 2: able to support the fact that these two transcendent stars
11:27
Speaker 2: on their own could not carry using a franchise. Now,
11:30
Speaker 2: I will also say that during the time in which
11:33
Speaker 2: they were playing, the Texas Rangers were a pretty good organization.
11:37
Speaker 2: The Seattle Mariners were private organization. The Anaheim Angels may
11:41
Speaker 2: have actually been going through a little bit of a
11:43
Speaker 2: gauntlet where the Houston Astros, Seattle Mariners, Texas Rangers were
11:47
Speaker 2: peaking at the time that day.
11:49
Speaker 1: Just to say, can we blame any of this on
11:51
Speaker 1: the fact that they actually played in a competitive division at.
11:54
Speaker 2: The time and arguably over a timeframe, one of the
11:57
Speaker 2: most competitive. I mean, keep in mind, the Houston As
12:00
Speaker 2: had a run of seven years playing in the American
12:02
Speaker 2: League Championships Series, and when they weren't doing it, the
12:06
Speaker 2: Texas Rangers were winning the World Series in twenty twenty three,
12:09
Speaker 2: and Seattle has been a team that has been formidable,
12:13
Speaker 2: having one of the best pitching staffs of the last
12:15
Speaker 2: decade during Jerry Depoto's tenure. So you're kind of running
12:19
Speaker 2: a gauntlet out there. So it's unforgiven. So not only
12:21
Speaker 2: did they not put the rate players around these two guys,
12:24
Speaker 2: I think you also were in a division that at
12:26
Speaker 2: the time was one of the class divisions of all
12:28
Speaker 2: of Major League Baseball.
12:30
Speaker 1: Certainly now do you, Okay? So we're going to touch
12:34
Speaker 1: on a few more things here. There have been grumblings
12:40
Speaker 1: and whatnot. We hear about how Otani when his contract
12:45
Speaker 1: came up, Perry was not able to trade Otani. We
12:50
Speaker 1: also hear some things about spring training facilities getting criticized.
12:54
Speaker 1: We had some rumors that the franchise is not on
12:57
Speaker 1: the forefront of investing in R and D. And I,
13:01
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if you've gone into the
13:03
Speaker 1: uh the the this hole. I mentioned it earlier, the
13:07
Speaker 1: players kind of voting for best and worst organizations. But
13:12
Speaker 1: you see this, and then I look over and I
13:14
Speaker 1: see some of the same grumblings in a very recent
13:18
Speaker 1: report from the players. You know, they have they have
13:21
Speaker 1: poor R and D, they have poor analytics, they have
13:23
Speaker 1: you know, they're not putting their money into into various things.
13:27
Speaker 1: And they're also the player development is is rough between
13:32
Speaker 1: minors and majors. Is does any of this go into
13:38
Speaker 1: how an executive may evaluate an opportunity working for the angels, like,
13:41
Speaker 1: what do you as a GM, as an executive going
13:45
Speaker 1: into evaluated opportunity? You got a chance to go out
13:47
Speaker 1: there an interview for one of these roles that what
13:50
Speaker 1: do you what do you think about when you're interviewing
13:52
Speaker 1: for these roles? Do you kind of have to put
13:53
Speaker 1: that stuff aside and say, hey, we don't really know
13:55
Speaker 1: or do you sit and say to yourself like, hey,
13:58
Speaker 1: maybe this is an opportunity for me to shine here
13:59
Speaker 1: and build this up. Like how do you evaluate these
14:02
Speaker 1: roles as they come available? What are you looking at?
14:04
Speaker 1: What do you need to see?
14:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Tod, I think let's hopefully we'll touch on
14:09
Speaker 2: everything you just address there as we discuss this. But
14:12
Speaker 2: I think it's it's you know, when when people are
14:15
Speaker 2: evaluating these opportunities, I think there's some very significant things
14:20
Speaker 2: that you're diving into. First of all, I think the
14:22
Speaker 2: biggest mistake you could make when you're pursuing these opportunities
14:24
Speaker 2: is you're so headstrong to try to win the opportunity
14:28
Speaker 2: that you don't realize what you've won. So I think
14:31
Speaker 2: the evaluation process is essential.
14:33
Speaker 1: Because congratulations, you got the job. It's going to be
14:36
Speaker 1: impossible now.
14:37
Speaker 2: Right now, because I've always viewed it, viewed it as
14:40
Speaker 2: like I'm sure some people feel this way.
14:42
Speaker 1: I do not.
14:43
Speaker 2: I'm not a messiah. I'm not able to come and
14:45
Speaker 2: solve all the world's problems. So I need to align
14:48
Speaker 2: myself with an organization that does have challenges, all of
14:52
Speaker 2: them will that are that are coming open, but that
14:54
Speaker 2: have challenges that match and align with my skill set.
14:57
Speaker 2: And so what I'm looking at you to start with
15:00
Speaker 2: is ownership. What type of relationship can you forge with
15:03
Speaker 2: with the owner? What role will they play in terms
15:06
Speaker 2: of executive decision making? Candidly, what have they learned over
15:10
Speaker 2: their career from the successes they've had and what failures
15:13
Speaker 2: they've had, and what type of daily connection do they
15:16
Speaker 2: aspire to have with your leadership team. I think one
15:19
Speaker 2: thing that really stands out to me is how Artie
15:22
Speaker 2: Marino is conducting himself right now, which is to say,
15:26
Speaker 2: they've hired John Mozaliak to be a consultant in.
15:29
Speaker 1: This process, and what do you make of that higher.
15:32
Speaker 2: I look at this as very prescient on their part
15:35
Speaker 2: for a few reasons. So one thing to just share
15:39
Speaker 2: with the listeners is a lot of owners do use
15:42
Speaker 2: some of the executive search firms such as corn Ferry
15:45
Speaker 2: and Nolan Partners, which is now.
15:47
Speaker 1: Actually found that self search and advisory. Always found it
15:50
Speaker 1: fascinating there's a search firm out there for executives in baseball.
15:54
Speaker 1: That's that's I saw that in your notes here and
15:57
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I guess they do kind of
15:59
Speaker 1: go through an executive search the same way a company
16:02
Speaker 1: you know out in business world would do it.
16:04
Speaker 2: And I think what Ardie Moreno's done here in hiring
16:07
Speaker 2: John Mosaliak as a consultant, is he's actually taken it
16:11
Speaker 2: potentially to another level because he's got somebody who has
16:14
Speaker 2: thirty years experience working with the Cardinals. John started his
16:18
Speaker 2: career way back when in the early nineteen nineties. He
16:21
Speaker 2: had eighteen years as the general manager of the Cardinals,
16:24
Speaker 2: fifteen consecutive winning seasons. Chit with in those Cardinals.
16:28
Speaker 1: Well as a Cubs fan, he was a headache. Let's
16:30
Speaker 1: put it that way. It was very frustrating to watch
16:32
Speaker 1: the Cardinals year in year out winning the NL Central.
16:35
Speaker 1: That was a and you knew that they just had
16:38
Speaker 1: a good front office. Right, So he comes from a
16:40
Speaker 1: great spot.
16:41
Speaker 2: And so he's bringing not only the executive understanding that
16:45
Speaker 2: the Cornfairy and Excel search and advisory maybe bring to
16:49
Speaker 2: this type of conversation, but he also knows exactly how
16:51
Speaker 2: the job is done, what a championship organization looks like,
16:55
Speaker 2: and he's able to provide counsel to Artie Moreno, amongst
16:59
Speaker 2: other things, ferring him through the draft, which is upcoming.
17:02
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, do you think them
17:04
Speaker 1: bringing you the You don't often see a general manager
17:08
Speaker 1: getting the ouster right before the draft. Was that was
17:11
Speaker 1: the strangest part of this to me, was well, why
17:14
Speaker 1: don't they keep the guy around for another month and
17:16
Speaker 1: a half, get through the draft, and then make this
17:18
Speaker 1: move and at least have some stability through the draft.
17:20
Speaker 1: But then you see Mozilliac coming along as the consultant.
17:23
Speaker 1: Is he kind of there to shepherd them through this?
17:25
Speaker 2: Well, so, Jed, I think part of the reason they
17:28
Speaker 2: did it at this time was another leg of this
17:31
Speaker 2: table of how we would evaluate these opportunities, which is
17:34
Speaker 2: what's the strength of their minor league system, and that
17:37
Speaker 2: you know, obviously will be dramatically impacted by what they
17:40
Speaker 2: do in the draft. But this isn't my opinion, but
17:42
Speaker 2: if you consult the pundits out there, you know MLB pipeline,
17:48
Speaker 2: ESPN Baseball America fangrufs, they believe that the Anheim Angels
17:54
Speaker 2: currently have somewhere between the twenty eighth to twenty ninth
17:57
Speaker 2: best farm system. So I'm guessing that the reason, and
18:00
Speaker 2: they're doing it timing wise right now, is reflective of
18:03
Speaker 2: the fact that they don't necessarily think that the way
18:06
Speaker 2: the decisions have been made in the draft are supportive
18:09
Speaker 2: of building the franchise that they need to have to
18:11
Speaker 2: win a championship. So they want to make that decision
18:13
Speaker 2: now so that John Mosalia can weigh in help them
18:18
Speaker 2: build their farm system and really start to rebuild today
18:21
Speaker 2: rather than waiting till this offseason. They got to start
18:24
Speaker 2: feeding that pipeline as quickly as they can.
18:27
Speaker 1: Folks. We got to take a break, but when we
18:30
Speaker 1: come back, we're going to wrap up our thoughts on
18:32
Speaker 1: Perriman Asian and we're going to get into some listeners questions.
18:35
Speaker 4: Stick with us alongside good friend Chet West, I am
18:48
Speaker 4: Thad Levine, and we're just continuing to break down not.
18:51
Speaker 2: Only the Angel situation, but how executives make these decisions
18:55
Speaker 2: of weighing these opportunities, and so, Chad, I think another
18:59
Speaker 2: element here you have to consider is how good is
19:02
Speaker 2: the major league team? Like, what are you walking into?
19:04
Speaker 2: What's the talent at the major league level? The stats
19:07
Speaker 2: would tell us that the Anaheim Angels are about where
19:10
Speaker 2: they should be.
19:11
Speaker 1: You've got a list of some not so sweet numbers
19:14
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here looking at right given to them chuck
19:16
Speaker 1: twenty seventh in offensive, war twentieth in batting, twenty ninth,
19:20
Speaker 1: in defense, twenty ninth, and base running nineteenth in pitching,
19:25
Speaker 1: and I don't even really look at their pitching staff
19:28
Speaker 1: as a true strake. They've got those. A Soriano, you know,
19:31
Speaker 1: is kind of popping this year. But outside of that,
19:33
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing a lot there, and I mean the
19:36
Speaker 1: bottom third of the league and almost everything.
19:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, So no, Chut, I think another thing that goes
19:42
Speaker 2: hand in glove with evaluating the major league team from
19:45
Speaker 2: a performance standpoint is what does the payroll look like?
19:49
Speaker 2: What's the flexibility? So on the surface, their one hundred
19:52
Speaker 2: and ninety seven million dollars payroll ranks seventeenth in the game.
19:55
Speaker 2: So that's that's a positive. We're competing. We're competitive under
19:59
Speaker 2: a we're in the middle, right right, but how does
20:02
Speaker 2: it look relative to our chief competitors aren't a vision.
20:05
Speaker 2: It's a tight division here, chet, So the Houston Astros
20:08
Speaker 2: are eleventh, that two thirty five, Texas, Seattle and Anaheim
20:11
Speaker 2: are all bunched together, and then the Athletics are twenty
20:15
Speaker 2: first at one hundred and forty one million, So there's
20:17
Speaker 2: not a huge gap in these payrolls. Point of fact,
20:20
Speaker 2: it actually aligns pretty well with the floor and ceiling
20:23
Speaker 2: that we heard that the Commissioner's Office is proposing from
20:26
Speaker 2: the new CBA, so this may be deemed to be
20:29
Speaker 2: in a range of fairs, so that's very encouraging. And
20:33
Speaker 2: then on a player by player basis, this team is
20:36
Speaker 2: very healthy moving forward. They have a Mic Trout contract
20:39
Speaker 2: that is going to last for another handful of years.
20:42
Speaker 2: They have use Kakuchi under contract for twenty twenty seven.
20:45
Speaker 2: Those are the only two guaranteed deals moving forward, Chets.
20:48
Speaker 2: So from a performance standpoint, we've got some work to
20:51
Speaker 2: do here, But from a payroll flexibility standpoint, in an
20:55
Speaker 2: ownership's willingness to spend to accelerate the turnaround. It seems
21:00
Speaker 2: very encouraging to me as I look at the roster.
21:03
Speaker 2: Then the next level that I'm going to evaluate on
21:05
Speaker 2: a roster standpoint is how many players that you think
21:09
Speaker 2: are young who could be part of your nucleus, who
21:12
Speaker 2: could be there when you are competing again, do you
21:15
Speaker 2: have to build around there? And I'm seeing a few
21:17
Speaker 2: guys here Chet, but I'm not seeing a ton I'm
21:20
Speaker 2: seeing Zach Netto. He jumps off the page as a
21:22
Speaker 2: guy who you could see building being part of a
21:25
Speaker 2: championship formula. Read Debt Meres. As you mentioned, Jose Sorian
21:29
Speaker 2: is doing well. Read Detmers is having a breakout season.
21:32
Speaker 2: Joe Adell is having a breakout season.
21:35
Speaker 1: That's Joe Adell is one of those guys that got
21:38
Speaker 1: caught up in the development mix, right Joe. It was
21:42
Speaker 1: a top prospect of theirs, but maybe brought up a
21:44
Speaker 1: little too early. They didn't really execute on that one
21:47
Speaker 1: as far as when they brought him in.
21:49
Speaker 2: And I think that goes back to your conversation about
21:52
Speaker 2: how they performed in the draft. For whatever reason, they
21:55
Speaker 2: have decided to rush players to the big leagues. That
21:59
Speaker 2: also leads to having a lower farm system. Ranking because
22:04
Speaker 2: they've brought guys to the big leagues extremely quickly. They
22:07
Speaker 2: did it with Zach Netto, they did it with Nolan Shan, Well,
22:10
Speaker 2: they did it with Christian Moore. If some of those
22:13
Speaker 2: guys were still intraplay and probably dominating intriple a, we
22:16
Speaker 2: would be having a very different conversation now.
22:19
Speaker 1: And I think they got But I do think I
22:21
Speaker 1: do think that Neto they got lucky with Neto, not lucky.
22:24
Speaker 1: He was kind of seen as a guy who was
22:25
Speaker 1: going to be a quick turnaround from when he was
22:27
Speaker 1: drafted to his trip to the majors. But you're looking
22:30
Speaker 1: a guy like Christian Moore is a little bit of
22:32
Speaker 1: a different situation there. He has maybe gone. He's probably
22:35
Speaker 1: more on the Joe A. Deel path at this point
22:38
Speaker 1: where he will struggle for a year or two before
22:40
Speaker 1: he actually pulls it together. So I think they got
22:42
Speaker 1: a little lucky with Neto. But I do think you're right.
22:45
Speaker 1: They have a solid They have a decent core of
22:48
Speaker 1: players who do build off of I wonder do you
22:50
Speaker 1: think we're getting much more on Strout in his career.
22:53
Speaker 2: Well, he's having a standout.
22:55
Speaker 1: Season right now.
22:56
Speaker 2: So you injured again injured again. Yes, And you said
23:00
Speaker 2: it earlier about what appeared to be a desire to
23:04
Speaker 2: trade Otani and being restricted in your ability to do so.
23:07
Speaker 2: I think that's worth calling out for a second, because
23:10
Speaker 2: there's a lot of atmospheric factors that go into those decisions.
23:15
Speaker 2: It's hard to put that on period.
23:16
Speaker 1: The easiest thing to deal with right now, you've.
23:19
Speaker 2: Got you've got these guys who are franchise players, are
23:23
Speaker 2: so popular in your community, So so fast forward now
23:27
Speaker 2: you know, would would it be best for the Anaheim
23:29
Speaker 2: Angels to talk about trading Mike Trout right now? It
23:32
Speaker 2: may be for the overall health of the organization, But
23:34
Speaker 2: you see other guys in the game, Minnesota Twins. You
23:38
Speaker 2: hear conversations around Byron Buxton and his desire not to
23:41
Speaker 2: not to move. And so these are things that do happen.
23:45
Speaker 2: Whether it's a player who has the ability to impose
23:48
Speaker 2: a no trade clause, which Iron Buckston has and Mike
23:50
Speaker 2: Trout has, or it may be the fan basees outcry,
23:54
Speaker 2: or an ownership's desire to retain a player, or your
23:57
Speaker 2: revenue generators talking about how crypt it would be to
24:00
Speaker 2: lose that player. These things factor into these decisions, and
24:05
Speaker 2: so it's not singularly made by an owner or by
24:10
Speaker 2: a GM at the time. And this is what makes
24:13
Speaker 2: these calls, I think, so very difficult.
24:16
Speaker 1: So I got a question for you, and it's just
24:19
Speaker 1: sort of dawned on me. So I'm zinging you with
24:21
Speaker 1: this one, all right, But I am curious about something.
24:23
Speaker 1: I'm looking at their payrolls here and I'm looking at
24:26
Speaker 1: where the Angels rank among the rest of the AL West,
24:29
Speaker 1: and I've done the same thing with the AL Central,
24:33
Speaker 1: you know, and just watching the Tigers, I've done a
24:35
Speaker 1: similar exercise the NL Central. Do teams spend to just
24:41
Speaker 1: compete in their division? Do they kind of look at
24:43
Speaker 1: their division and say, what do we have to spend
24:45
Speaker 1: to compete here? Because if the Angels were spending to
24:51
Speaker 1: win World Series, win championships, and they had Trout and
24:55
Speaker 1: they had Otani at one point and they needed to
24:57
Speaker 1: build on that, but they didn't seem to ever. Are
25:01
Speaker 1: they just spending to compete within their division? Is this
25:03
Speaker 1: a true thing or is this just something as a
25:05
Speaker 1: fan that I see And I'm like, they don't need
25:07
Speaker 1: to spend more because all they got to do is
25:09
Speaker 1: win the division to get to the postseason, and that's
25:10
Speaker 1: their goal.
25:12
Speaker 2: So I think it probably depends on the market. I
25:15
Speaker 2: think they're teams, you know, the Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox,
25:19
Speaker 2: others that a Mets, Phillies who aren't spending to try
25:23
Speaker 2: to win the World Series. I think for those teams
25:26
Speaker 2: that fall below that, which is the majority of them,
25:29
Speaker 2: your primary goal is to win your division. And the
25:32
Speaker 2: reason being is that's what you control, it's in front
25:35
Speaker 2: of you. It's still an imbalanced schedule. If you can
25:38
Speaker 2: win your division, you and then you know, the next
25:41
Speaker 2: discussion is can can we get a buy can we
25:44
Speaker 2: make sure we're playing home games in the playoffs, because
25:47
Speaker 2: then then I think once you get past that first
25:50
Speaker 2: round of the playoffs, you're now in a different discussion.
25:54
Speaker 2: But like I do think for the listeners to hear this,
25:56
Speaker 2: I hope it's not disillusioning. Our goal is to get
25:59
Speaker 2: to the playoffs. The quickest path to do that is
26:01
Speaker 2: to beat the teams in your division. So the first
26:04
Speaker 2: level of competition is the other four teams in your division,
26:08
Speaker 2: how do we stack up against them? Then it's how
26:10
Speaker 2: do we stack up against the other playoff teams in
26:12
Speaker 2: our league? Then it's how do we stack up against
26:15
Speaker 2: the whole major leagues. But it's in that order, and
26:18
Speaker 2: if we can say yes to the first one, which
26:20
Speaker 2: is are we competitive in our division, it's the path
26:23
Speaker 2: we control the best, and that is the one that
26:26
Speaker 2: we're going to pursue right out of the stretch. And
26:28
Speaker 2: I think that's just the reality of competing. We're trying
26:31
Speaker 2: to get to the playoffs. We're trying to play home
26:34
Speaker 2: playoff games. It's such an advantage in that first round,
26:36
Speaker 2: and ideally you're trying to get a buy out of
26:38
Speaker 2: that first round because it's just such a prohibitive favorite
26:42
Speaker 2: for you to not have to play those extra games.
26:45
Speaker 2: You start that second series where you're facing the other
26:47
Speaker 2: teams maybe fourth or fifth starter, You've got your number
26:50
Speaker 2: one starter lined up against them, and now all of
26:52
Speaker 2: a sudden, you're shortend series. Instead of having to win
26:55
Speaker 2: four out seven, you maybe steal the first two games
26:58
Speaker 2: and you only have to win two of their remains.
27:00
Speaker 1: Five games their way. I kind of look at the Angels,
27:03
Speaker 1: you look at their roster, they have netto They've got
27:06
Speaker 1: Christian Moore coming up. Joe Adell's finally starting to play
27:09
Speaker 1: a bit you mentioned Trout having a season unlike his
27:13
Speaker 1: previous where he's kind of back on top statistically injured again,
27:17
Speaker 1: and that is part of the problem when he and
27:19
Speaker 1: Otani were playing together. He was injured for a lot
27:21
Speaker 1: of that time when they were together, and Otani had
27:24
Speaker 1: a season or two there where he was out injured,
27:26
Speaker 1: so you did rarely see the two of them on
27:29
Speaker 1: the field at the same time healthy. But I do
27:32
Speaker 1: look at this payroll situation and they they are not.
27:35
Speaker 1: Their revenue streams are there. They're making money, So it
27:40
Speaker 1: feel like they're that team that if they went out
27:42
Speaker 1: bought a player too, maybe a pitcher, maybe a starter,
27:46
Speaker 1: maybe a reliever, I don't know, and they kind of
27:48
Speaker 1: added in with some cash, like is it does it
27:51
Speaker 1: then just become the willingness to spend, and you know,
27:54
Speaker 1: arty moreno is an owner has shown a willingness to
27:56
Speaker 1: spend in the past. It may be on the goods
27:59
Speaker 1: he was buying weren't exactly great, but at least the
28:02
Speaker 1: checkbook was out right, So that's got to be a
28:04
Speaker 1: positive if you're looking for you know, if you're assessing
28:07
Speaker 1: a position like this, I.
28:09
Speaker 2: Think we have to take a closer look at that.
28:10
Speaker 2: I think that's another part of the puzzle that you
28:14
Speaker 2: have to evaluate when you're considering these opportunities, like what
28:17
Speaker 2: are the reasonable revenue streams for these markets? And it's
28:20
Speaker 2: really bright in Anaheim. It's very encouraging. We mentioned it earlier.
28:25
Speaker 2: They won the World Series in twenty in two thousand
28:27
Speaker 2: and two. For the next two thousand and three through
28:29
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, shit, they drew over three million fans per year.
28:33
Speaker 1: That's money in the baseball No, we're.
28:36
Speaker 2: Talking about maybe five teams a year or drawing out
28:38
Speaker 2: three million. So they that it is extremely bright, that
28:43
Speaker 2: the fan base is robust and they really support the team,
28:46
Speaker 2: even as as bad as they've been playing in as
28:50
Speaker 2: much as they're struggling. They've the twelfth best attendance in
28:52
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball today, their second in the in the
28:55
Speaker 2: American League West. Despite being in last place. They're actually
28:59
Speaker 2: on pace to have as much attendance this year as
29:01
Speaker 2: they had last year. Those are all massively encouraging signs
29:05
Speaker 2: as I'm evaluating this situation, and then tack on the
29:08
Speaker 2: fact that if this is let's say, this isn't a rebuild,
29:12
Speaker 2: this is a retool, and part of the reason is
29:14
Speaker 2: because they will have the financial wherewithal if they want
29:17
Speaker 2: to to accelerate the turnaround by spending on the free
29:20
Speaker 2: agent market. Your very own Detroit Tigers have played very
29:24
Speaker 2: well in June. By doing so, they now have a
29:27
Speaker 2: twenty five percent chance again to make the playoffs. Maybe
29:30
Speaker 2: that takes Tarek Scooble off the market. If Tarek Scooble's
29:33
Speaker 2: off the market, Jose Soriano and Redebtmers look that much better.
29:37
Speaker 2: If Tarek Scooples on the market, they're going to be
29:39
Speaker 2: ten teams clambering for them. Maybe that creates an uptick
29:42
Speaker 2: in the market for Redebtmers or Jose Soriano. So there's
29:46
Speaker 2: a chance that they may be able to trade one
29:48
Speaker 2: of these two guys or both of them and really
29:50
Speaker 2: help jump start this turnaround. Or maybe they want to
29:54
Speaker 2: retain those guys and help and have those guys be
29:57
Speaker 2: part of the nucleus they build around.
30:00
Speaker 1: But this is a tough decision they have that they're
30:03
Speaker 1: going to have to make. Here. If you're in there,
30:04
Speaker 1: and I think.
30:05
Speaker 2: They're going to have to be responsive, I think they
30:07
Speaker 2: don't start the process by quote unquote taking these two
30:10
Speaker 2: guys to market out. I think they're dying to see
30:13
Speaker 2: the frenzy that the Detroit Tigers, with the whole league
30:17
Speaker 2: into over Trek Scouble. They're hopeful that the Minnesota Twins
30:21
Speaker 2: stay competitive and Joe Ryan's not on the market, and
30:25
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, when there's seven to eight
30:27
Speaker 2: teams who are willing to part ways with three premium
30:30
Speaker 2: prospects for Trek Scuble, maybe they'll part ways with two
30:33
Speaker 2: of them to acquire a Redebtmers or Jose Soriano. I
30:37
Speaker 2: think if that happens, they very well may be very
30:40
Speaker 2: responsive and active. If not, they retain the players and
30:43
Speaker 2: they build around.
30:44
Speaker 1: It's very the supply and demand of this upcoming free agency,
30:49
Speaker 1: this period coming up here. It's like if one one
30:52
Speaker 1: pitcher isn't available, the market swings so much that a
30:56
Speaker 1: Jose Soriano or Redebtmers all of a sudden can field
30:59
Speaker 1: you two or three quality assets moving forward. Whereas if
31:04
Speaker 1: Joe Ryan makes himself available, those guys slide down into
31:07
Speaker 1: a third, fourth slot somewhere, and even Schoogle's value probably
31:10
Speaker 1: drops off a little bit knowing that Joe Ryan's out
31:12
Speaker 1: there again. I mean, I'm personally I'm a Tiger fan.
31:15
Speaker 1: I'm probably paying a little more for Joe Ryan right
31:17
Speaker 1: now than I am teed School. That sounds crazy, But
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm also looking at this somewhat pessimistically because I watch
31:23
Speaker 1: Google every day so and I kind of see his
31:26
Speaker 1: limitations at times, especially this season.
31:29
Speaker 2: Well, I think we aspire to be exceptionally rational, we
31:33
Speaker 2: aspire to be grounded in all the data and analytics.
31:36
Speaker 2: Emotions rise high at the trade deadline. When you are
31:41
Speaker 2: getting close to the perception of making a deal that
31:44
Speaker 2: could put you over the top to get into the playoffs,
31:46
Speaker 2: or want you in the playoffs to win in the playoffs,
31:48
Speaker 2: you start acting a little bit more emotionally. I think
31:50
Speaker 2: that's what the Anaheim Angels are dying to have happened.
31:54
Speaker 2: The Angels actually have some players that are players that
31:56
Speaker 2: you could help them this year and then moving outward,
31:59
Speaker 2: they aultimately maybe a perfect match for each other as
32:03
Speaker 2: we head into the trade deadline. But the Angels are
32:06
Speaker 2: dying for people to act a little bit irrationally, a
32:09
Speaker 2: little bit emotionally and do something maybe they should do, And.
32:13
Speaker 3: They just don't feel like we see that much at
32:16
Speaker 3: the trade deadline over the last I don't know if
32:18
Speaker 3: it's timing, if it's what's been available, but you know,
32:22
Speaker 3: they need that irrational action to gather those assets that
32:25
Speaker 3: they need to replenish their farm system with one or
32:29
Speaker 3: two of these names here.
32:30
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it seems like things have
32:33
Speaker 1: just been tempered lately at the trade deadline. We're not
32:35
Speaker 1: giving away the farm for a starter anymore for two
32:38
Speaker 1: to three months of service. And maybe that's you know,
32:43
Speaker 1: my fans speak there.
32:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, And so I think I think
32:48
Speaker 2: if that's the way it plays out, that Anaheim is
32:49
Speaker 2: plenty happy just holding onto Jose Soriano and redebtmers assessing
32:54
Speaker 2: the situation in the offseason, you could still trade them
32:56
Speaker 2: if you so desire. You may want to extend one
32:58
Speaker 2: or both of them, or you still have both of
33:00
Speaker 2: those guys heading into next year. But just to wrap
33:03
Speaker 2: up this segment, I think as you're assessing these situations,
33:06
Speaker 2: we hit on a number of different angles that you
33:08
Speaker 2: would evaluate.
33:09
Speaker 1: But I think the.
33:10
Speaker 2: Anaheim angel situation everyone that you would inherit would come
33:14
Speaker 2: with some challenges. This one is no different. But there's
33:17
Speaker 2: a world of opportunity here. It's a tremendous market. They
33:21
Speaker 2: have been willing to spend to try to win. In
33:23
Speaker 2: the past they have as you mentioned, they may be
33:27
Speaker 2: a little bit behind in some of the resources they've
33:29
Speaker 2: been deploying. All I see that as an opportunity to
33:33
Speaker 2: vault forward because if they get up to speed, they
33:36
Speaker 2: don't have to spend to be number one in some
33:39
Speaker 2: of those resources. But if you're in the top ten,
33:41
Speaker 2: it will be a demonstrative step forward. Lord knows what
33:44
Speaker 2: gains you can make in a short period of time
33:46
Speaker 2: there based upon the resources that you would then have,
33:50
Speaker 2: and knowing full well that the payroll will be there
33:52
Speaker 2: to support a championship organization, and the fan base is
33:55
Speaker 2: dying to come out and support this team as it
33:58
Speaker 2: surges towards prominence once again.
34:01
Speaker 1: And if there's anybody in the world that can find
34:04
Speaker 1: the positive and an opportunity with the Anaheim Angels and
34:09
Speaker 1: their situation, it's probably you. Always finding this silver lining
34:14
Speaker 1: and the positive in these situations and these opportunities. I swear,
34:18
Speaker 1: I said, I could not believe that you dug all
34:21
Speaker 1: this stuff. You had our notes here, and I was
34:22
Speaker 1: going he found positive things about the Anaheim Angels. That's amazing.
34:27
Speaker 2: My glass is not half full, it's always brimming over.
34:32
Speaker 2: That's great for the For the listeners out there, we
34:35
Speaker 2: want to honor you. Come back after the break, we
34:38
Speaker 2: have listener questions with producer Wyatt.
34:51
Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners. It is your favorite time of the show,
34:55
Speaker 1: the listener questions. And we've got a couple here. Our
34:59
Speaker 1: producer Wyatt is going to help us out. Wyatt, what's
35:02
Speaker 1: going on? What do we need to do today? What's up? Chat?
35:05
Speaker 5: I got two loaded questions for you guys. Perfect kick
35:10
Speaker 5: it off. We're going to Sarah from Boston, Massachusetts. Now
35:15
Speaker 5: that Brad Stevens has publicly addressed the Jalen Brown trade,
35:19
Speaker 5: what is your guys evaluation of the deal. Could the
35:23
Speaker 5: Celtics have made the right long term decision? And how
35:26
Speaker 5: much better does this make the seventy six ers moving forward?
35:30
Speaker 5: And I know we had Jeff skin Weight on last
35:33
Speaker 5: week and he was talking about the whole analytics debate
35:36
Speaker 5: surrounding Jalen Brown and how ridiculous that was. And also
35:40
Speaker 5: you know he touched on the second apron and how
35:43
Speaker 5: that might have played a factor in this. But would
35:45
Speaker 5: love to get your guys thoughts.
35:47
Speaker 2: So I mean, where I would start this analysis is
35:51
Speaker 2: to say that a ton of respect for the Boston Celtics,
35:55
Speaker 2: Brad Stevens seems to have been one of the best
35:59
Speaker 2: gentlemen in all of professional sports, so I'm inclined to
36:03
Speaker 2: give him a lot of benefit of the doubt here.
36:06
Speaker 1: Did he make the tough decision? Is that what we're
36:08
Speaker 1: talking about here? He made the difficult decision?
36:10
Speaker 2: I think Schet. The thing that concerns me a little
36:14
Speaker 2: bit as I listened to all the commentary around this
36:17
Speaker 2: is it felt like there was an artificial urgency to
36:22
Speaker 2: move the player. And I've experienced in my career when
36:26
Speaker 2: you feel you have to do something, it's rare that
36:29
Speaker 2: you do the absolute right thing. And so due to
36:33
Speaker 2: and I understand the player was complicit in this as well,
36:36
Speaker 2: it seemed as if the minute their season ended he
36:40
Speaker 2: was expressing some discord that I think the organization seemed
36:44
Speaker 2: to rise above that. But clearly something transpired here which
36:49
Speaker 2: made a relationship moving forward with the Celtics and Jalen
36:53
Speaker 2: Brown untenable. And I just would say, from a front
36:56
Speaker 2: office standpoint, that is a compromise position you never fired
37:00
Speaker 2: to be in. And so when the dust settles, they
37:03
Speaker 2: tried to trade them to Milwaukee, which I think the
37:05
Speaker 2: fan base would have certainly found very palatable if they
37:07
Speaker 2: had netted Giannis. Lord knows what some of the other
37:11
Speaker 2: deals that they were trying to do behind the scenes.
37:13
Speaker 2: My guess is there was quite a few in between
37:16
Speaker 2: acquiring Yannis and acquiring Paul George and multiple draft picks.
37:20
Speaker 2: But when the dust settles, they end up trading them
37:23
Speaker 2: in division to the team that, oh, by the way,
37:25
Speaker 2: beat them in the playoffs this year and ousted them,
37:29
Speaker 2: and they took off that team's tray a player who
37:32
Speaker 2: is a Hall of Famer most likely, but also in
37:35
Speaker 2: the twilight ed his career very much declining and was
37:38
Speaker 2: signed to a very ownerous deal his own self, and
37:42
Speaker 2: so they shortened up their financial obligation by one year
37:46
Speaker 2: they got the lesser player. I don't know how to
37:48
Speaker 2: perfectly value the draft picks Chad here, But as Brad
37:51
Speaker 2: Stevens himself said, I'm not going to sit here in
37:54
Speaker 2: front of the fans and tell them to get super
37:56
Speaker 2: excited about the draft picks. If I were the fan,
37:58
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be that excited about it. So it just
38:01
Speaker 2: feels as if it's an underwhelming return, and furthermore, you've
38:05
Speaker 2: traded Jalen Brown in division. My concern is sometimes as
38:09
Speaker 2: front office, as we convince ourselves this is an addition
38:12
Speaker 2: by subtraction. It's hard to fathom how that could be
38:15
Speaker 2: the case. Considering the talent of Jalen Brown and where
38:19
Speaker 2: they came out on the other side of it. It
38:21
Speaker 2: seems a little flimsy as to how they're positioning this
38:24
Speaker 2: to their die hard fans that they just got better
38:27
Speaker 2: in any way.
38:27
Speaker 1: Shape or form. I think this is one of those
38:30
Speaker 1: things where you can't put the genie back in the
38:32
Speaker 1: bottle type deals. You start talking about trading a player
38:37
Speaker 1: and the immediate feeling of disrespect starts kicking in. It's
38:42
Speaker 1: it's like they you know, I think he was a
38:44
Speaker 1: part of the initial rumors. Going to be honest, we've
38:47
Speaker 1: seen this in other sports. You know, once you dangle
38:49
Speaker 1: a guy out there and you're willing to let go
38:51
Speaker 1: of them, it becomes a well, they don't respect me,
38:52
Speaker 1: they don't want me anymore, Get me off this team.
38:55
Speaker 1: And in the NBA, when you want off a team
38:58
Speaker 1: or you want to get traded, you want out. It
38:59
Speaker 1: seems to happen. Players can almost orchestrate these things to
39:02
Speaker 1: their desire, and he ends up going to the seventy
39:05
Speaker 1: six or seventy six Ers are going to be good.
39:07
Speaker 1: They're going to be a better team in my opinion,
39:10
Speaker 1: next year than they were this year. You got Edgecomb
39:13
Speaker 1: in his second year, you're gonna have you know, Jame
39:16
Speaker 1: Brown's gonna come in there. He's gonna I think he's
39:18
Speaker 1: gonna be a great player on that team. I think
39:20
Speaker 1: he's going to be a All Star. They'll probably make
39:24
Speaker 1: a good surge into the postseason, providing everybody's healthy. And
39:28
Speaker 1: I do wonder how much this does for the Celtics. Actually,
39:31
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I don't know. Are
39:34
Speaker 1: they a better team now? I'm not sure.
39:36
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Chet. I mean, if the Sixers get
39:38
Speaker 2: Embiid healthy and Tyrese Maxi and Edgecomb seemed like stars, Yeah,
39:42
Speaker 2: I guess my only bush, Yeah, I guess my only
39:46
Speaker 2: question for them. And I think this was just just
39:48
Speaker 2: a deal that was too good for them to turn down.
39:51
Speaker 2: But how is there enough ball to go around to
39:54
Speaker 2: share between Edgecombe and Maximum? Is a good ground all
39:57
Speaker 2: of whom are kind of somewhere between guards and wing players.
40:02
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're willing to try to figure that out
40:05
Speaker 2: and sort that part of it out, because I think
40:06
Speaker 2: they felt like they got much better and they did
40:09
Speaker 2: it at the expense of one of their in division rivals.
40:12
Speaker 1: They're going to be expecting a little something out of
40:14
Speaker 1: EMBIID this year, and they got indeed some of the support,
40:17
Speaker 1: a little more support. So we'll see what happens. I
40:20
Speaker 1: think it's an interesting trade. I think it's an interesting situation.
40:23
Speaker 1: I think it lends a lot to the respect factor
40:26
Speaker 1: that players want to feel from the teams that they're
40:28
Speaker 1: playing for. When that goes out the window, it's hard
40:31
Speaker 1: to mend that.
40:32
Speaker 2: And also, let's call it like it is to that's
40:34
Speaker 2: also what made Jalen Brown create, you know, so his
40:37
Speaker 2: sense of pride is what made him great. So it
40:40
Speaker 2: was rumored in two trades, one for Kevin Durant and
40:43
Speaker 2: now for Giannis, and those are two first ballot Hall
40:46
Speaker 2: of Famers, But that was like a big blow to
40:48
Speaker 2: his ego and he and that created a rift with
40:51
Speaker 2: the franchise, which apparently was not something they could mend.
40:55
Speaker 2: Time will tell how this impacts the Boston Celtics, but
40:59
Speaker 2: it sure seems as in the short term it will
41:01
Speaker 2: be very positively impacting the seventy six ers.
41:04
Speaker 5: I agree, super interesting. I mean, do you guys think
41:08
Speaker 5: there's kind of a trend now with the second apron
41:11
Speaker 5: that you know, players aren't going to be able to
41:13
Speaker 5: keep these homegrown stars anymore? And I think that you
41:17
Speaker 5: talk about the fan reaction Brad Stevens built up all
41:21
Speaker 5: this credibility is a great executive, but you know, tried
41:24
Speaker 5: telling that to a Boston Bean who loves watching Jalen
41:27
Speaker 5: Brown and has watched him since he got drafted.
41:30
Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean, you need to look no further
41:33
Speaker 2: than the fact that eight different franchises have won the
41:35
Speaker 2: last eight NBA championships. It is really tough to reteam
41:38
Speaker 2: these players. The Golden State Warriors were the last team
41:41
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. And have you know
41:43
Speaker 2: a dynasty of any sort, because you know, the next
41:45
Speaker 2: team up for this conundrum is the Oklahoma City Thunder.
41:49
Speaker 2: You know that was a team that didn't even make
41:50
Speaker 2: the finals this year. They were projected to. I'm sure
41:53
Speaker 2: they're a prohibitive consideration for next year, but they're about
41:57
Speaker 2: to have these seeing difficult decisions to seeing some of
42:00
Speaker 2: their kind of role players be peeled off this team
42:04
Speaker 2: as they start whittling down. We saw with the Denver Nuggets,
42:07
Speaker 2: who looked like they were going to be a team
42:09
Speaker 2: that was going to be formidable for a decade to come.
42:12
Speaker 2: When you start peeling away the fourth, fifth, sixth best
42:15
Speaker 2: players on these teams and leave them just what they're
42:17
Speaker 2: two to three best stars, which is the decision these
42:20
Speaker 2: front offices have to make. They can either retain the
42:23
Speaker 2: stars or the complimentary players, but not both, and then
42:26
Speaker 2: also they also have to sacrifice the stars. Eventually, you know,
42:30
Speaker 2: you blink your eyes and your window starts closing. You
42:33
Speaker 2: shift from a championship window to a rebuilding window. And
42:37
Speaker 2: it's remarkable how quickly it happens in the NBA. I
42:39
Speaker 2: think we're already starting to see it with Oklahoma City.
42:42
Speaker 2: That's what makes what sant Antonio is doing so remarkable,
42:45
Speaker 2: because they're all these guys on their rookie level contracts
42:49
Speaker 2: and they're just sprinkling in the right veteran here or there.
42:52
Speaker 2: They're going to have a come up and soon enough,
42:55
Speaker 2: because it still certainly feels like Shay and Williams and
43:02
Speaker 2: chet are young in Oklahoma City, but they're already starting
43:05
Speaker 2: to make big dollars. They're having to make sacrifices on
43:07
Speaker 2: that franchise. San Antonio is gonna have to maximize this
43:11
Speaker 2: window because before you know it, they're gonna have the
43:13
Speaker 2: same challenges as well.
43:15
Speaker 5: All right, next question is from Tyler in Des Moines, Iowa.
43:20
Speaker 5: With the twenty twenty six MLB All Star rosters now set,
43:24
Speaker 5: who are your biggest All Star snubs?
43:27
Speaker 2: So, chet, I'll let you take the guy that you
43:31
Speaker 2: had mentioned previously, and.
43:32
Speaker 1: You're gonna let me have him.
43:34
Speaker 2: So he was my choice, but I'll let you wx
43:37
Speaker 2: poetic about that.
43:38
Speaker 1: He was your choice after all. Okay, I bet you
43:41
Speaker 1: had somebody else. But all right, So my snub on
43:45
Speaker 1: the NL side of things is Bryce Terrang. I have
43:48
Speaker 1: had a Bryce Terrang love affair for the last year
43:51
Speaker 1: and a half and was hoping at some point he
43:54
Speaker 1: may find his way into a trade or something with
43:56
Speaker 1: one of my teams. He's this type of ballplayer. I
43:59
Speaker 1: like what he's got to three point two f war
44:01
Speaker 1: right now? All right, that's a Fangrafts war. That's a
44:04
Speaker 1: more predictive war than say a Baseball reference war of
44:07
Speaker 1: b War one hundred and twenty seven WRC plus he's
44:12
Speaker 1: got a two sixty nine average, big deal, twelve home
44:14
Speaker 1: runs fifty one RBIs place second base, which might be
44:17
Speaker 1: a little bit of the problem here. We do have
44:19
Speaker 1: a lot of second base talent out there. I just
44:22
Speaker 1: think that he got massively overlooked and has been for
44:25
Speaker 1: the last year to year and have He's been one
44:26
Speaker 1: of the best second basement in the National League for
44:28
Speaker 1: the past season, season and a half. And I think
44:31
Speaker 1: he got overlooked. And I don't think there's many Milwaukee
44:34
Speaker 1: fans that would that would debate that. I think they
44:38
Speaker 1: all kind of understand what Bryce Terrang means to that team.
44:42
Speaker 1: He's a little bit of the engine in little of
44:44
Speaker 1: that lineup that makes things kind of go. And he
44:46
Speaker 1: got you know, I guess it was Ozzie Albi's who
44:49
Speaker 1: won the fan vote, ariahs got the player ballot. They're
44:55
Speaker 1: they're not Bryce Terrang for me, So I'm going with
44:59
Speaker 1: Bryce Trang as Mike, I think he got snubbed on
45:01
Speaker 1: the n outside of things that, yeah.
45:04
Speaker 2: Well, as somebody who's currently employed by the Milwaukee Brewers,
45:06
Speaker 2: You're not getting an argument from me on.
45:08
Speaker 1: I didn't think I would. I didn't think I would.
45:10
Speaker 2: And Chid, I'll just add this layer to him. In
45:13
Speaker 2: addition to the home runs, he's also on pace to
45:17
Speaker 2: have thirty stolen bases this year. He also represented the
45:21
Speaker 2: United States of America on the WBC team, and I
45:24
Speaker 2: think if you talk to the coaching staff of that team,
45:28
Speaker 2: you'll find that he was one of the guys that
45:30
Speaker 2: was kind of off their radar as well, and he
45:33
Speaker 2: was one of the guys who impressed them the most
45:35
Speaker 2: just in how he conducted himself day in and day out.
45:38
Speaker 2: From a professionalism standpoint, I think this is a guy
45:41
Speaker 2: who is a star laying in wait. I mean, considering
45:44
Speaker 2: he was the starting second baseman of the WBC team
45:48
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Brewers have been one of the best teams
45:50
Speaker 2: in the major leagues of the last three years. When
45:53
Speaker 2: when he's been shining that the stage is bright for
45:57
Speaker 2: this guy. He is his best years are ahead of him.
46:00
Speaker 2: I think he's going to become a household name. Maybe
46:02
Speaker 2: isn't quite there yet, but I think, you know, he
46:05
Speaker 2: will be formidable for the future. So one guy I
46:09
Speaker 2: just want to bring up, and I'm not trying to
46:11
Speaker 2: carry agent BB Abbot's water here, but I thought it
46:14
Speaker 2: was a very interesting outburst on his part to support
46:18
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler, his client as a potential All Star snub.
46:23
Speaker 2: The arguments that BB made was that Zach Wheeler has
46:27
Speaker 2: been one of the best starting pitchers in Major League
46:28
Speaker 2: Baseball for the last five years, and I think that's
46:31
Speaker 2: pretty undeniable. He has been dominant for the Philadelphia Fillies
46:35
Speaker 2: and he has been part of winning you know, their division,
46:38
Speaker 2: being excellent pitcher in the playoffs. So he's done it
46:42
Speaker 2: on the big stage throughout his whole time. I also
46:45
Speaker 2: think that he's coming back from a very significant injury,
46:48
Speaker 2: an injury that most pitchers don't come back from, and
46:50
Speaker 2: when they do, they don't come back as strong as
46:53
Speaker 2: he's come back. Since he's come back, he's been excellent.
46:55
Speaker 2: We've talked about this in past episodes of Roster Strings.
46:59
Speaker 2: They made the change manager Don Mattingley gets a ton
47:02
Speaker 2: of credit. I think you mentioned it last episode Chet
47:04
Speaker 2: that they've had the best winning percentage since they went
47:07
Speaker 2: to Don Manton. Well, it also happened to be about
47:10
Speaker 2: the same time that Zach Wheeler came off the il.
47:12
Speaker 2: Who's more responsible for them winning? I would hazard a guess,
47:15
Speaker 2: maybe the number one starting pitcher.
47:17
Speaker 1: I have a feeling it might have been their as
47:18
Speaker 1: yeah so.
47:19
Speaker 2: And then lastly, as you alluded to, this All Star
47:23
Speaker 2: Game is in Philadelphia. It's a miss to not have
47:26
Speaker 2: one of the best pitchers in the game pitch in
47:28
Speaker 2: his home ballpark in the All Star Game when you
47:31
Speaker 2: get an opportunity. This is no longer a game that
47:34
Speaker 2: is as competitive. It doesn't influence home field advantage in
47:39
Speaker 2: the World Series as it once did. It is an
47:41
Speaker 2: exhibition game. As an exhibition game, Zach Wheeler belongs on
47:45
Speaker 2: that team. I hope you know, as we will see
47:47
Speaker 2: over the next coming days, there'll be some players who
47:50
Speaker 2: get replaced on this roster. I am hopeful that Bryce
47:52
Speaker 2: Terrang and Zach Wheeler ultimately end up National League All Stars.
47:57
Speaker 2: They deserve it.
47:59
Speaker 1: I could with the Zach Wheeler I was I was
48:02
Speaker 1: going to take more of like a JJ weatherhold. I
48:04
Speaker 1: try to stay with him. The pitchers pitchers in All
48:06
Speaker 1: Star Games seemed like a little bit of a crap
48:08
Speaker 1: shoot past the top two guys to me to take
48:12
Speaker 1: in Casey Mies or somebody like that from the Tires
48:14
Speaker 1: who has been exceptional this season so far. But yeah,
48:18
Speaker 1: I agree with your Wheeler assessment.
48:20
Speaker 2: Well, and I think a Jj weatherhold just for the
48:22
Speaker 2: listeners to hear everything you said about Bryce terraing you
48:25
Speaker 2: could say about Jj weatherhol All he's done is led
48:28
Speaker 2: all of second basement in War. He's not even on
48:30
Speaker 2: the team, let alone.
48:32
Speaker 1: Being debated Reokie of the Year.
48:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in honor of producer Wyatt, I've got to
48:38
Speaker 2: throw PCA in this Pete crow Armstrong. All he's doing.
48:42
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask Wyatt if he had one, but
48:44
Speaker 1: then you know, we don't really let him talk that much,
48:47
Speaker 1: so maybe it's the best we just keeping.
48:49
Speaker 2: All all PCA is doing is leading all of the
48:51
Speaker 2: major leagues in offensive War. He's the backup center fielder.
48:55
Speaker 2: And I think that also speaks to the part we're
48:57
Speaker 2: not talking based on is the flaws in the face
49:00
Speaker 2: voting because the starters still go to the fans, and
49:03
Speaker 2: I think part of the problems we're experiencing here is
49:05
Speaker 2: maybe the wrong starters were selected. If not for that fact,
49:08
Speaker 2: maybe we wouldn't be talking about these snubs at all.
49:11
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us this week. Join
49:14
Speaker 2: us every Thursday on Rosters to.
49:16
Speaker 6: Rings, Please join me, host bad Levine, and other general
49:24
Speaker 6: managers every week for rosters to Rings on Apple, Spotify,
49:29
Speaker 6: or wherever you get your podcasts.
49:32
Speaker 1: Welcome,