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Interview Only w/ Tom Vilsack - Trump Screwed The Ag States… Can Democrats Win Them Back? · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: you by Chapter. Now, almost everything you hear about Medicare
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: is somebody quietly trying to steer you somewhere. And you're
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: skeptical of that, as you should be. I get it.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a federal lawsuit going on right now
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: over exactly this. Companies that branded themselves as unbiased while
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: allegedly pointing people toward whatever would pay them the most
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: as some sort of broker. So if your default is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to distrust everyone in this space, honestly, I get it.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit distrustful these days myself. That's the whole
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: reason I want to tell you about Chapter. They're independent
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  Speaker 1: Medicare advisors whose entire model is that their advisors are
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  Speaker 1: not paid to push any one plan. They're just trying
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  Speaker 1: to help. Yes, there's compensation that goes with it. but
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it's across the board is what they're trying to do.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, they're advocating for you.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: They're not the insurance companies themselves. They're an actual person
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: who actually goes through your doctors, your prescriptions, your needs,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and then compares them to every single plan available to
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: find the best one that will work for you and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: hopefully save you a couple dollars too. And here's the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: part that sets chapter apart. They don't disappear once you've
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: been in They will keep advocating for you. They're kind
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of like almost like a concierge service. You're just there.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I need help. You're like customer service. You know, the plan,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you know, help me navigate this again. So you ever
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: get hit with a wrongful medical bill, they'll help you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: fight it. They want to stay an advocate for you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: even after you've done this. So look, I get it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of space. You see a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: lot of people are throwing themselves in this healthcare space.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: What I like about these chapter folks, I've spent time
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with them. This is a very transparent organization. It is
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Medicare and all of its affiliated stuff can be very confusing.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: The whole point of this is to make this easier
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  Speaker 1: and less confusing. OK, so look, take the skepticism you
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: already have in all of this, point it at your
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: own plan for 20 minutes. It's free. There's no pressure.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: And then call chapter today at 980-734-4200. three, nine, eight, five. Well,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: joining me now is somebody I've known a long time.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I think, I think we've known each other long enough.
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  Speaker 1: We would consider each other friends, although we don't ever
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  Speaker 1: live in the same town. We've got some interesting common,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: including a love for baseball and he's a diehard Pittsburgh
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  Speaker 1: pirates fan. And I just, I admire diehard fans of
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  Speaker 1: teams that, that, that are just, should be better than
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  Speaker 1: they are. It is the former agriculture secretary, and I
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  Speaker 1: think now the longest serving ag secretary in American history.
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  Speaker 2: Second longest.
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  Speaker 1: Second longest. Well, we'll get to that. Former two-term governor
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  Speaker 1: of the state of Iowa, Tom Vilsack. Tom, it's good
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  Speaker 1: to see you.
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  Speaker 2: Good to see you, Chuck. But I guess it's pretty
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  Speaker 2: easy to be a Los Angeles Dodgers fan.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I really am less a Dodgers fan
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  Speaker 1: these days. I know when we first met, I was,
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  Speaker 1: but you know, Look, I'd never gotten to grow up
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  Speaker 1: in a major league city. And when the Nats came
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  Speaker 1: to town, when they moved in 05, I was excited
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  Speaker 1: to have major league baseball, became a season ticket holder.
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  Speaker 1: And you'll know this having kids. My son, when the
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  Speaker 1: Nats got good in that 2010, 2011, my son was
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  Speaker 1: like four or five. And then we went through that
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  Speaker 1: whole thing. And the World Series run, it is... The
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  Speaker 1: Dodgers somehow became the evil empire. And, you know, it was...
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I went to a World Series. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that 2019, that memory, I mean, it is. And there's
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  Speaker 1: something about he was, he's 20 now, but he was
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  Speaker 1: just about to be 20. But he was, so in 2019,
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  Speaker 1: he was like 13. And when stuff happens at that
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  Speaker 1: age and you're like, you know, that with your team,
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  Speaker 1: like that's it, right? You're always dreaming of that moment.
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  Speaker 1: Like I'm that way with the University of Miami football.
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  Speaker 1: The first title, I was 11 and I just got
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  Speaker 1: to experience like that was, This was amazing. That's the
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  Speaker 1: sort of– and I'm all in on the Nats. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm joining you there in the bottom of the standings.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have at least had a World Series
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  Speaker 2: in the.
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  Speaker 1: I did. Look, this was supposed to be the year
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  Speaker 1: that the Pirates are going to break out of their slumber,
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  Speaker 1: wasn't it?
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  Speaker 2: Well, they're going to improve by 10, 12 games over
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  Speaker 2: the previous year, which is a pretty big leap. for
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  Speaker 2: any team. And they've got a core. You know, if
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  Speaker 2: you look at the history of the Pirates, what you're
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  Speaker 2: going to find next year, if there is baseball season,
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  Speaker 2: hopefully there is. The Pirates, I think, will fare well.
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  Speaker 2: I think they'll get their pitching straightened out. And they
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  Speaker 2: seem to have found a closer. I think they'll get
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  Speaker 2: Skeens figured out. Hopefully Keller gets.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think the Skeens issue is? I know
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  Speaker 1: you watch a lot of games. Is it a velocity issue?
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  Speaker 2: What do you think? The world.
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  Speaker 2: Baseball classic threw him off his whole regime. You know,
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  Speaker 2: he's a very structured guy and that threw him off.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think he ever quite recovered. I think
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  Speaker 2: you'll see his velocity come back next year a little bit. Plus,
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  Speaker 2: I think he needs to simplify. You know, he's trying
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  Speaker 2: to pitch six different pitches. I mean, you know, in
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  Speaker 2: this league, if you have three or four and they're
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  Speaker 2: good and he has three or four that are good,
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  Speaker 2: you got to just stick to those.
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  Speaker 1: That's it. I had not heard that theory about the WBC,
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  Speaker 1: but with pitchers, it's clear, right? These regimens matter. I mean, look,
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  Speaker 1: I live this with Strasburg, and I feel like Skeens
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  Speaker 1: is your Strasburg. You're like, oh, my God. And, you know,
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  Speaker 1: what's funny about Strasburg is that there's this weird feeling
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  Speaker 1: among some Nats fans that he didn't, you know, he was, quote, unquote,
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  Speaker 1: a disappointment. He's got one of the greatest postseason pitching
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  Speaker 1: stat lines ever, multiple years. He was the World Series
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  Speaker 1: MVP for a reason. And I always go back to
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  Speaker 1: my Nats fans like, OK, so you didn't end up
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  Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer. But he was pretty darn good.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you know? You know, I sometimes
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  Speaker 1: think we, you know, these athletes that get taken number
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  Speaker 1: one or number two. And you think, you know, if
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  Speaker 1: they're if they're not the greatest of all time, they're
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  Speaker 1: considered bust. And I'm like, hey, I'd like to have
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  Speaker 1: a 15 year major league career.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, my Lord.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And well, he took you to the promised land.
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  Speaker 1: So.
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  Speaker 2: What's not to like about that? Now, I'll tell you
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  Speaker 2: one thing about the Pirates. This guy Griffin, he's batting
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  Speaker 2: 50 points higher than Barry Bonds did in his first year.
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  Speaker 2: Just think about that.
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  Speaker 1: That's a good line. So you didn't have baseball in Iowa,
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  Speaker 1: I know, in the same way there. Look, I invited
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  Speaker 1: you on because I really think just the coverage in
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  Speaker 1: general of the ag industry, ag politics. And you know
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  Speaker 1: this because you've tried so hard to get more reporters
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  Speaker 1: like myself a bit more familiar. And here we are
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  Speaker 1: with a genuine crisis in the cattle industry, genuine issues
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  Speaker 1: due to tariff policy. And I just feel as if,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you probably see it. I feel like the
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  Speaker 1: East Coast media, they're reporting on it, but they don't
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  Speaker 1: get it. Do you get that sense?
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  Speaker 2: No, I think that's absolutely right. You know, the beef issue,
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  Speaker 2: for example, is, you know, at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 2: the basics for agriculture are really pretty simple. You need
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  Speaker 2: a supply, you need a decent price, and you need
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  Speaker 2: a market and a buyer willing to buy at the
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  Speaker 2: price that you set. On the beef side, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's a very complicated set of issues that impacts all
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  Speaker 2: three of those items. I mean, the supply is thin,
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  Speaker 2: and that's because the risk in cattle is extremely high. Now,
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  Speaker 2: why is it high? Well, first of all, There's aggressive
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  Speaker 2: competition from other proteins. I mean, the shopper goes into
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  Speaker 2: the grocery store and says, oh, ground beef is X
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  Speaker 2: number of dollars per pound. I can get a pork
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  Speaker 2: or I can get chicken or I can get some
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  Speaker 2: other alternative protein for a lot less money. And so
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  Speaker 2: they end up using their consuming power. Then you've got
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  Speaker 2: the health and climate issues that people associate with raising cattle,
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  Speaker 2: which creates some issues and some hesitation on the part
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  Speaker 2: of buyers. You got screwworm that now creates at least
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  Speaker 2: the impression that maybe that supply is not as safe
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  Speaker 2: as it needs to be, which is unfortunate. And you
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  Speaker 2: have the cost of production that is very, very high.
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  Speaker 2: For what reason? Well, climate has had an impact. Drought
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  Speaker 2: in the West makes such that forage isn't as available.
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  Speaker 2: So you have to buy fee. Well, that's expensive. You
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  Speaker 2: have to cart water because you don't have it where
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  Speaker 2: it normally is. So you have to get it from where,
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  Speaker 2: like in Iowa, where we have too much water right now.
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  Speaker 2: The farmer demographics, it's hard work. And as they get
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  Speaker 2: older and fewer, a number of them go out of business.
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  Speaker 2: The war is driving up input costs significantly for these
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  Speaker 2: guys and gals. And the labor supply is in short
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  Speaker 2: supply because they get a somewhat inconsistent message here. We
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  Speaker 2: love our farmers, but we also aren't going to provide
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  Speaker 2: them the workforce because we're going to basically discourage people
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  Speaker 2: from coming into the country. So that's part of it.
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  Speaker 2: The other part is that farmers generally, and this is
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  Speaker 2: what I don't think people really get, farmers get so
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  Speaker 2: little of the food dollar as it is. We spend
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  Speaker 2: roughly 9% to 10% of our take-home pay on food
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  Speaker 2: in this country. And farmers get about $ 0. 15 of every
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  Speaker 2: dollar that's spent on food. So you have to ask yourself,
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  Speaker 2: who gets the other $ 0. 85?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just going to say, help us out here.
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  Speaker 1: Show this $ 0.
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  Speaker 2: 85.
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  Speaker 1: I love this.
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  Speaker 2: $ 0.
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  Speaker 1: 15 goes to the To the farm. To the cattle rancher,
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  Speaker 1: to the farm.
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  Speaker 2: All right, well, just think about it. So he takes
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  Speaker 2: the cattle to the processor, and there are too few processors,
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  Speaker 2: so he's pretty much at the, or she's at the
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  Speaker 2: mercy of whatever price.
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  Speaker 1: I have to say, I interviewed a cattle rancher in Virginia,
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  Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe how far they have gone to
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  Speaker 1: get to a processor.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Hundreds of miles. And that's transportation costs. That's, you know,
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  Speaker 1: all sorts of issues associated with that.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, during the Biden administration, we invested a
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  Speaker 2: significant amount of money in expanding independent processing, but that
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  Speaker 2: needed to be an ongoing set of investments, which right
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  Speaker 2: now is somewhat disrupted. So the processor gets his nickel
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  Speaker 2: or dime. And then the trucker who transports the processed
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  Speaker 2: meat to the grocery store gets a bit of it.
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  Speaker 2: And then the grocery store gets a bit of it.
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  Speaker 2: And the people who package it and label it and
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  Speaker 2: process it and retail it. So there are many, many
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  Speaker 2: mouths to feed in this process. And the farmer gets blamed.
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  Speaker 2: for high prices, when in fact, the farmer is probably,
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  Speaker 2: of all those in the food supply chain, is probably
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  Speaker 2: getting the least level of support for the amount of
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  Speaker 2: effort and work that they put into producing the product.
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  Speaker 1: Look, you've outlined a series of challenges here. And I
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  Speaker 1: know that I think some of them are the long-term
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  Speaker 1: trend lines and this issue of just how many people
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  Speaker 1: are going to want to stay in this business. consolidation
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  Speaker 1: with processing plants. This is something I think we all
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  Speaker 1: became slightly more educated about during the pandemic when a
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  Speaker 1: processing plant would suddenly not be able to do their
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: work and all of a sudden, wait a minute, how
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: come we only have how many of these processing plants?
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, we've got an issue here. Our immigration policy,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: border security, but a better plan to bring workers who
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: want to do these jobs, that's been missing. So I
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  Speaker 1: guess the question I have for you is, It's like,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time?
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: What do you do short-term, medium-term, and long-term? And what's realistic?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I know you've been... Look, you had the luxury of
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: having two bites at this apple. So you were trying to...
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: You actually got to implement some long-term and try to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: invest in some medium-term. And I know there's been some
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: pullback on investments or missing money in these last 18 months.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So let's start short-term. Short-term is... politicians need to lower
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the cost of ground beef. What can be done?
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  Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting, the response from the current administration was
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  Speaker 2: to import mystery ground beef from some mystery country.
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  Speaker 1: We wouldn't be told where, right? Argentina and Brazil, but
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: we didn't want to say it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's obviously some South American country for sure. And
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: at a pretty good price. So you have to kind
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: of ask yourself, What's that all about? Here's the problem
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: with that.
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  Speaker 1: Is there a South American country we bailed out recently
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: on their currency? I can't remember.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. So there you go. Here's the problem with that.
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  Speaker 2: They're trying to address the supply issue by bringing more
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: supply in, but they're also sending an inconsistent message to
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  Speaker 2: the farmer and the rancher by saying, look, we're going
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: to import more foreign product. Well, that's going to discourage
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of people from staying in the business. If
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: that's what's going to happen, then this business becomes even riskier.
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  Speaker 2: The question isn't so much that. If you want to
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: increase the supply, you have to create a market that's
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: more domestically directed. Now, how would you do that? Well,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you would start buying beef as a government entity, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: would buy beef or encourage the, the, uh, the purchase
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  Speaker 2: of beef for food banks, for school meal programs.
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  Speaker 1: Or, uh, uh, you know, that would be a short-term
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: way to at least goose the market a little bit.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: And send them domestically and, you know, okay, you're, you're
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: helping with school lunches.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Send the message on, but here's the, here's the problem
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: with that strategy. In order to do that, you have
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: to tap what is called the, the, uh, The Commodity
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Credit Corporation, the CCC, was established during the Depression era.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: It's a great vehicle. Every year, roughly, the Secretary of
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Agriculture has roughly $ 30 billion that's put into a fund.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to essentially pay for a portion of the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: food farm programs, but there's always money left over that
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: can be directed towards the purchase of products in order
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to help people who are challenged. Well, the problem is
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that they've basically used all of that because of the tariffs.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So in order to make up for those that have
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: been hit by tariff, this has been the makeup payments
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: they've tapped into that fund?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: It's a vehicle by which they have in the past
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: been providing some level of assistance. So that option is
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a bit limited, but they could refill it or Congress
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: could appropriate more money. But the bottom line is, if
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: you create a market, then that is what is the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: incentive for the ranger to take the risk to produce.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And then secondly, with reference to the labor supply, we
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: had an interesting pilot that was in effect in the
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Biden administration, where we essentially provided some degree of incentive
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: for folks to be willing to hire immigrant labor from
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: El Salvador and Honduras. We gave a bit of an incentive.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And in exchange for that incentive, rancher or farmer agreed
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: to basically pay a decent wage and provide health care
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and a good setup. We had 77 operations basically taken
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: advantage of with $ 65 million. The Trump administration discontinued that program,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: but then they got so much pushback, they sort of
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: brought it back online. Well, there's an opportunity to address
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: the labor issue by coming up with a creative solution
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: to say, look, we're concerned about knowing who's crossing the border. Well,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: how about if we select these people, we train these people,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: we know who they are, we bring them over to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: the country, we give the farmer-rancher a bit of an
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: incentive and see how many ranchers will essentially... buy into
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: this program. That basically keeps the border secure, but also
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: addresses the labor issue. So these are things that you
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: can do. You can also help farmers by, and I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: think the administration will probably do this if they haven't already,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: there's a conservation reserve program land, which is basically idled
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: for a period of time. Well, you can make it
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: easier to graze those areas without a significant penalty to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the CRP program and the farmer who's taking advantage of it. Well,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: that could increase the forage that's available to producers. So
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: there are ways to help short-term without necessarily roiling the
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: market as they've done with the importing of beef.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: The long-term challenge seems harder. One of the things I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: learned when I was down at this meeting with the
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: head of the Virginia cattle ranchers association is a majority
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: of cattle ranchers at least in virginia um essentially have
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: w-2 income from somewhere else meaning it's just not a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: lot of these ranchers have to have a you know
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: somebody and somebody in the family has to get a
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: second job oh it has to get it yeah.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: How much time is this show Let me just take
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: you back. In 1973, this all started, this whole process
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about, the long-term issue, started back in
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: 1973 when the Nixon administration came in and changed the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: supply management structure that was in place from the Depression on,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: where we were controlling the supply, stabilizing the price. The
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: problem was food prices were high. The Nixon administration wanted
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: to use food as a diplomatic tool, so they basically
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: told farmers fence row to fence row. They focused the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: entire system on production. And they warned farmers when they
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: did this. They said, now, you're going to have the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: market that you want. You can grow whatever you want
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to grow, and you can sell all of it. But
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: you better get big, or you're probably going to have
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to get out. So since 1973, we've lost almost a
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: million farmers. operations, and we've lost 220 million acres of
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: land that was in farming that's not in farming today. Now,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it's not like it's in a bigger farm. It's just
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: not in farming. That is, I think, the equivalent of
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Texas and Oklahoma combined. That's since 1973. Now, here's the problem.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Because we basically told these guys fence row to fence row,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and we told them to build and plant commodities... You've
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: got a real disconnect between the 10% of farms that
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: are relatively large, so more than $ 350, 000 in sales every year,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: and the other 90%. And I'm going to give you
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: an example. But that explains why 88% of farm families
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: have to have off-farm income to keep the farm. Why
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: is that? Well, the best year in farm income was 2022.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: 2022.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: 2022. Post-COVID, sort of the post-COVID supply surge or what? Yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it was a bunch of things. 185... That was a
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: good Secretary of Agriculture. $ 185 billion of net cash income
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: that year. In that year, that top 10%, 180,000 farms
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: out of 1.8 million received 85% of that income, which
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: meant that 1.6 million farms had to split 15%.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Now, hypothetically.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: If you took the 185, multiplied it by 85%, divided
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: it up equally among 180,000 farms, each farm would get
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: 830-some thousand. that 74% of the subsidies that are in
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the system go to the top 10%. The problem that
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: we've been facing that we really haven't addressed, and we
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: started in Obama, and I think we elevated in Biden,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: is we've not created a different game for the other 90%,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: for the farmer that you talked to in Virginia. We
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: haven't created a situation where instead of the farmer working harder,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: it's the farm that should work harder. We haven't created
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a system in which that smaller-sized operator can get paid
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: multiple ways for what he or she does on the farm.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Let me give you an example. Part of the problem
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: is we only have two kinds of commodities today. We
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: have organic, which is very high value, very difficult to achieve,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: very few farmers are involved in it, and everything else.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: If you think of the restaurant business, you got Michelin
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: star restaurants, but you also have fast food, and then
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: you got everything in between. So your value proposition, you
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: can be whatever you wanna be with that value proposition.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: You don't have that in farming. So as a result,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: these farmers have to decide They either play the commodity
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: game or the organic game. Why can't we create additional
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: classifications of commodities? Why can't we say, for example, as
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: we did in Biden, hey, if you address and adopt
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: sustainable agricultural practices, not quite organic, but more than the
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: general commodity, We're going to create a different classification, different
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: commodity class for you. And we're going to pay you
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: a premium. The market's going to pay you a premium
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: because there are enough customers willing to buy and pay
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: a little bit more, but not as much for organic
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: for this new product. So we had 135 contracts that
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: involved millions of farms or millions of acres, tens of
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: thousands of farmers who were in this program. And this
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: was building over time. And we had major companies, we
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: had food companies, we had major environmental organizations, we had
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: major farm commodity groups, we had major universities. It was
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: an amazing opportunity to create a different market.
• 22:12
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  Speaker 1: the three categories? Okay.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: If you measure and monitor the result of the environmental
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: result of that practice, if you can say, hey, as
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: a result of that, I sequestered X number of tons
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of carbon, we could create ecosystem service market payments to
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: that farmer. So they get paid not just the higher
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: value for the commodity, but they could potentially make a
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: bit of a little money on selling the environmental result
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: to somebody who needs that result to offset their own responsibilities. Then-
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: If you say to them, hey, by the way, you've
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: got a little acreage over here. With new technology, you
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: can put solar panels on there. You can put a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: wind turbine. And you can generate electricity not just for yourself,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: but for your neighbor. So now you get an energy check.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So now you've got multiple streams of income. Your waste product,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the manure that you maybe over-apply on land creates issues.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe if you redirect that, and we had an industrial
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: policy that basically said we should be converting agricultural waste, manure,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to, however you want to characterize it,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: into something more valuable. So you could take that manure,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: you can produce methane from it. You took the methane,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: so it becomes a new commodity. So now all of
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: a sudden- This farm has three or four income sources
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: from just basically what the farmer is doing today, not
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: just one source. That he has no control. I'll be honest.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a no-brainer.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: What am I missing? Is it harder than I think
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to do than I think? Who are the people blocking it?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Somebody's fighting it.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: We had $ 20 to $ 25 billion that had been set
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: aside during the COVID recovery process. We had $ 20 to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: $ 25 billion set aside for a three to five year
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: effort to basically create this model and then basically say
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to Congress, you know what? This is the model you
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: should incorporate in farm bills. Now, here's the problem. The
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: problem is people are going to say, well, where does
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: the money come from? All right. And so here's my
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: answer to that. I hear politicians say this, and shoot,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I was one of them, that food security is national security. Okay,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: if you buy into that, and I think everybody does,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: because we're a food secure nation, which gives us a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: heck of an advantage. Very few countries in the world
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: today are food secure. We are, which means we can
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: basically produce everything we need to feed our own people.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: We don't really have to import anything, really. Maybe we
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: import for choice. Maybe we import- It's luxury.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, look, it's one of the things I've,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the greatest transformations in,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you know, this is my, why I'm an advocate for
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: freer trade. We can, you know, which is simply go
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to the produce section. I can now get certain produce
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: year round that when we, when I was a kid,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: you couldn't, no, no peach season. And there was just
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a season for everything. And it was really hard. I mean,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: growing up in Miami, you could get mangoes there. You
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't ship a mango. It was hard to ship a
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: mango back. It was just, you know, you couldn't get
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it in other places. And, and I don't think And
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: this was one of those people didn't fully appreciate how
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: much in the grocery store, the produce section benefited the
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: most from these lower tariffs over the last couple of decades.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And consumers did too, because it basically gave them choice.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: It gave competition and lower. So if food security is
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: national security, and the current administration wants to spend $ 1. 5
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: trillion on national securities, I just simply say, well, give
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: us one penny of every dollar. Because we're part of
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the national security family here. We deserve some resources. Now,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: that would be $ 15 billion. And I guarantee you that
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: if you add $ 15 billion invested in the system that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I just outlined, and you also created a local and
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: regional food system. So what we had was a program
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: where we essentially provided ag secretaries in the States, money
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: so that they could go out and purchase locally produced
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: stuff for their food banks and for their schools. Now,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: why is that important? Because research shows that farmers get
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: two to seven times the return on that type of
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: transaction than they do if they just simply sell it
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: and ultimately it gets in a major grocery store. So
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you create this system of support for that small farmer. Now,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: why would you do that? Well, here's why you would
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: do it. Because if you can keep that farmer on
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: the farm, You're going to keep the kids in the
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: rural school. You're going to keep the patients at the
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: rural hospital. You're going to keep the customers for the
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: rural small business. And those small towns are going to
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: continue to prosper. Now, why would you want that? Well,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: if you look at the military, the makeup of the military,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: A disproportionate number of those kids come from those small towns.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: If you shrink the population of those small towns, you're
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: shrinking the capacity of the military to meet its needs
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: for an all-volunteer military. And you just ask the folks
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: today whether it's easy to recruit people. It's not because
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: that population has shrunk as a percentage. So I make
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: the case, put the money. National security, put the money in,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: create this structured system.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Look, it's always good politics. That's something I know over time,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that bringing some sort of new system, new money to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the ag sector is usually pretty good politics on both
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: sides of the aisle. But let me ask a question
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: on behalf of some of my libertarian friends who look
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: at our ag policy and think there's just way too
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: many subsidies, way too much government involvement. Some farmers get
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: paid to do this, to do that. Now, I hear
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: those arguments and I think, well, I'm curious where you
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: sit on this, which is you couldn't have a purely
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: free market system in the ag space. I understand that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: What's too much subsidy and what's an example of something
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: that probably shouldn't be subsidized? What's the argument that you
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: need to that, hey, this has to be sort of
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: a controlled market. It's not a free market, a controlled market.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Well, if people think food prices are high today, then
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: they need to basically go to this system that you've
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: just outlined. Because if they think their prices are high today,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: wait till they see the impact and effect on prices
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: at the grocery store with the system that you've outlined.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: The whole idea here is the subsidy effort, it can
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: be directed in a different way, but the reality is
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: the large scale production facilities, they basically make us the
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: food secure nation, but it's the smaller operations that populate
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: the small towns that provide the military and the kids
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: with good values. You want both. What we haven't done
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: is we haven't paid attention to the 90%. Now, I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: give credence to the Republican Party because they have actually
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: paid attention to those folks by saying, vote for us
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: because we'll lower your taxes and we won't regulate you.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: And in the absence of anything coming from Democrats, well, shoot.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm not- Well, one side shows up,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the other side doesn't. I mean, this has been one
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of your pet peeves for a long time. Democrats don't
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: show up in rural America.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Well, you know why they don't show up is because
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: they haven't figured out what to say. And I'm giving
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: them what to say. The problem with the Republican strategy
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: is it's all on the expense side. Nobody has really
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: addressed the income issue, right? But if you create an
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurial center, that farm becomes not just a producer of commodities,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: But it's an entrepreneurial center that produces energy, that produces
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: environmental results, that creates rural jobs, converting waste into something
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: more valuable so that we have less reliance on a
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: petroleum-based economy. And all of a sudden, we've got local
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: and regional food systems, which people actually like. They like
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: to know where their food comes from. Now, all of
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a sudden, this small town is a hub. This small
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: town is revived. It's alive. It can keep its young people.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: And so you aren't going to concrete over that 220
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: million acres that we've already lost. So the strategy for
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Democrats is to say, look, the other side's got the
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: expense thing. But you know what? Here's our strategy for
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: basically creating the income side to more income. So you
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: don't have to work harder. Your farm works harder. And
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: it does deserve support, just in the same way the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: big entities deserve support. If you did that, I guarantee
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you that you would have a much happier group of
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: people in those small towns than you have today. But Democrats,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: they don't show up because they don't know how to
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: talk to folks and they don't know what to say
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: to folks. And I'm basically saying, here's what you say
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to them. And frankly, here's how you talk to them. You,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: first of all, thank them for basically doing what they do.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Think about this, Chuck. Rural America, it's the place where
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: most of your food comes from. It impacts most of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the water that you drink. Most of the feedstock for
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the energy that you consume comes from those rural areas.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: It's the iconic landscapes of the country. It's 75% of
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the land mass of the country, and it's a place
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that disproportionately sends people into the military. What is not
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: to like about that part of the country, right? Why
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: don't we just start a conversation with that?
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: And then say- So let me turn this back to
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit of state politics, a little bit of
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Iowa politics. And if you were running for office, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: if you were in Josh Turek's shoes, what could you
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: promise that Congress could do to help Iowa farmers come
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: January of 2027?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Just what I've outlined. First of all, I want a
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: seat on the Ag Committee. With that seat, I would
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: advocate for the 90% of farmers that currently under the
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: current system don't do well. Best year ever, 50% lost money, 40%
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: made money, but the majority of money they made for
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: their family came from off-farm income. That is not a
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: system that's working for 90%. I'm going to go to Congress.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to bash the 10%. They're doing a service.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: They're creating a food secure nation. God bless them. But
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the 90% have been ignored. And I'm going to go
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: there and I'm going to suggest that there needs to
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: be a structure and system, a separate farm bill, if
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: you will, or a segment of the farm bill that's
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: dedicated to those, to create opportunities for those folks to
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: have multiple sources of income for what they're doing on
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the farm. So the farm works harder, not the farmer.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: That's what I would do. And I would also say,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: you know, here's the issue is, Unfortunately, they severed the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: important coalition to get a farm bill passed when they
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: did the reconciliation bill. They paid for it with SNAP cuts.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, remember the 15 cents of every food dollar
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: that farmers get? Well, when you cut SNAP, guess what?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: You're also cutting farm income. You're also impacting jobs at
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: the local grocery store.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: No, this was the urban-rural. This was, frankly, goes back
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: to the 60s and 70s and the old sort of
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: urban dems and the ag dems. When it was in
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the same party, they had to cut this deal. Now,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: of course, these folks are in different political parties now.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: But for the most part, this coalition had held together pre-Trump,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: hadn't it?
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And it was the only way of farming goods passed.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: So now where are we? The reconciliation bill basically increased
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: reference prices for 22 commodities out of over 100 commodities
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: that are grown and raised. So 80-some commodities don't get
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: a benefit from this. Of the 22, there are really
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: only six major crops that get benefited. And there's a
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: significant difference between the level of benefit that some of
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: those crops got versus other crops. So for example, depending
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: upon what numbers you use, it could be anywhere from
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: 4 to 11 times the amount of support goes to
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the rice and cotton person. farmer than it does to
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the corn and soybean farmer. If you're Josh Turek, you're
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: basically saying, hey, who's voting for that in Iowa? That
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: would be a legitimate question. There may be good reasons
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: for that distinction, but the reality is it is a
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: significant distinction, a difference between commodities. That's always been the
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: problem with the Farm Bill. The Farm Bill has always
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: been regional in terms of the disputes. It wasn't urban
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: and rural. Now it, now it is.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: No, it used to.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And that was the whole point. It was a, you know,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of the North, a lot of North South
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: fights over the years. Right.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Why, you know, absent the SNAP program, why would somebody
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: who represents, you know, New York city or somebody who
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: represents Minneapolis or, you know, St. Paul or, or, or
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Des Moines for that matter.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about rural Iowa, because I think it's pretty representative,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: if probably somewhat representative of rural Kansas, rural Nebraska, and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: rural South Dakota. And the reason I bring those up
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: is all four are semi-competitive to very competitive, depending on
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: your point of view. And they're all competitive because the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: ag industry is not happy with this administration. But the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: question I have is, are the folks that feel as
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: if this administration's let them down, And they didn't trust
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: the Democrats on this, so they gave a lot more
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: benefit of doubt to the right. How up for grabs
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: are they? What's your expectation? Are these flippable? Or are
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: these folks you suspect are just not going to show up?
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Or maybe they show up for Rob Sand and Ashley Hinson,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: but maybe– I don't know. What's your sense of that situation?
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And how would you politically try to– Try to woo
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: somebody who's been voting red for the last 20 years,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: assuming that the Democrats didn't care about their issues.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there are different categories in response to
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: your question. I mean, I think there are a number
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: of voters that traditionally would have voted for a Republican
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: that are just going to sit at home because they're
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: just not happy about anything. And Iowa has the distinction
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: of having had one-party control at the state level for
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: an extended period of time. And I think there's some
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: things that have been done during that one-party control, especially
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: on rural schools.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: No, the schools thing is what I'm hearing a lot about. Look,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I say, you know, everybody wants choice. Where's the choice
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: in rural America?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are private schools in rural America. So the
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: school issue is an issue. And the Medicaid cuts and
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the way in which the Medicaid system has been worked
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: and operated here in Iowa is also a sore point.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: So there are those voters who basically say, you know what?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I'm busy. I'm just not going to show up this time.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: So there's a subset of people like that. Then there
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: are some people who will vote, and they're going to
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: vote because they're not happy with what's happening at the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: state level. And I think that those people could very
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: well be ticket splitters where they basically start at one
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: place and move back and forth, right?
• 39:28
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• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Between us, I think that's Turek's, I say between us
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: as if somebody's not listening. I think that's Turek's biggest
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: challenge is that I just don't think there's going to be,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I think Sand's going to win over some Republican voters,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure that they're going to do it twice.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Well, Josh is, I mean, he's got an incredibly compelling
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: personal story.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: 100%. I agree.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: But his challenge is he's not as well known as Rob. Now,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Rob's been around for eight years. He's been traveling the state.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: He's been working hard. And that's, you know, at the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: end of the day, people, that's what they want to know,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: that you're working hard for the job. And he's established
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: a relationship. So people don't look at him as a Democrat.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: You know, he's quirky enough that they look at him
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: as Rob.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: No, he's Rob Sand. No, he's not. You're absolutely right.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like, yeah, he's quirky, but he's sort
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: of like, as Iowa might say, he's our quirky.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: He's shooting that deer in the parks in Des Moines.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty impressive thing he did. He's one of us.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Josh doesn't necessarily have that. He has to create a
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: relationship with Iowans, which he's trying to do. Then he
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: has to draw a sharper contrast, I think, between himself
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: and Representative Henson. in order to get people who might
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: be on the fence, who might be disgruntled with the
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: current system to say, OK, I'm going to show them.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to vote for this guy because you know what?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: He's working for it. He's really overcome some amazing things.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And he's got a strategy and a platform that I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: can relate to. I think that's the real challenge. And
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: that's why when you look at the polling, if you
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: can believe the polling, Rob is doing a little bit
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: better because he's had that long-going relationship. But it is
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: definitely a competitive race. There's no question about it. And
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: the one thing that's interesting is normally Republicans have had
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: a better ground game. I don't know. This time, that
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: may not be the case.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I think I- This feels like this is what happens when,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. And look, this is not your party.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: So I don't expect you to know what's going on
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: on the inside. But it does feel as if When
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Kim Reynolds endorsed DeSantis, it created– it severed her from
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: the Trump wing of the party. And I just wonder
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: how much that– and then Feenstra loses. So there isn't
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: sort of the quote-unquote establishment in charge, right? You have
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: this sort of outsider candidate at the top of the
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: ticket running the party. It strikes me that that's probably
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: why they're having a hard time with putting together their
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: normal ground game because the normal, the normal folks aren't
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: running the show. Is that sort of looks to me?
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, you're a little closer than I am.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they don't know. They don't know. They don't
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: know their nominee. Right. They don't, I mean, you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: they knew Randy, right. Randy had been around, probably been
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: a state Senator. They knew him. They don't know this guy.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And, you know, and Rob's done a pretty good job
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: of emphasizing the, that he's from Kansas. Yeah.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I think that that's like, that's one of those. You're like,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: you know what? Iowans really care about Iowa. Good luck
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: not being from, I mean, look, you had to, you constantly,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were born in Iowa. You're a Pittsburgh guy.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: It probably took a while for you to make Iowans
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: think you're an Iowan, right?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Well, two things. One, I married right. I mean, I
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: married an Iowa girl and she was terrific and is terrific.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: And I wore a sweatshirt that said I didn't get,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I wasn't born in Iowa, but I got here as
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: fast as I could. And I was a small town mayor.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: And so that that really made a difference for people.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I wasn't coming from Des Moines. Yeah, I was a lawyer,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: but he's a small town mayor. He must be OK. Right.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And and it was similar. Ninety ninety eight.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Do you think you might not have ever
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: won if you had been from Des Moines?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have won. It was
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: one party control for an extended period of time in 1998.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: And people were the same kind of not happy with
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: the way things were. And there were education issues again.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: And I came along. And Jim Lightfoot, God bless him,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: he didn't really work for the job. And I was
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: out there. And Chrissy was out there. And Sally Peterson
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: was out there. And we worked hard. We really worked hard.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Then people said, well, you know what? We'll just give
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: him a chance.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: You know, it's tough to have that Washington title in
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: front of you and become governor. I mean, it's not something,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a little easier to have the member
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: of Congress title if you're running for Senate than it
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: is for governor.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been my experience that folks who run from
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: that congressional seat don't really understand the full breadth of
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the state. They understand their congressional district very well because
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: they spend a lot of time there. But, you know,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: the state is big, and what's happening in northwest Iowa
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: is different than what happens in southeast Iowa, which is
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: very different than northeast Iowa.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Look, I would say I was raised basically in Iowa,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: but really it was in eastern Iowa. My dad grew
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: up in Waterloo. All the family was in Cedar Rapids.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And when I, as an adult, started to spend more
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: time in western Iowa, you really– I mean, it is truly–
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: it's just different, sure. It's more the same than on
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: certain things. But Eastern Iowa and Western Iowa definitely are–
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: and you do see the Eastern Iowa candidates struggle on
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: the other side.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a significant issue that's going on in Iowa
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: that sort of undercuts everything, which is that we're tired
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: of seeing our kids leave. So I've been asking Iowans
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: about population growth. And I've said from 1980 to 2020,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: how much is Iowa growing? as a percentage. And normally,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: they say, well, it hasn't grown at all. It's grown
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: a couple percentage points. I said, it was 9.4% growth
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: in 40 years. And they go, oh, well, that's better
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: than I thought. And then I say, well, wait a minute.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Let's take a tour of the neighborhood and see how
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: other states have done during that same period. South Dakota
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: is 29%. Nebraska is 26%. Missouri is 25%. Illinois is 11%. Wisconsin, 25%.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: And Minnesota is 40%. So you have to ask yourself, well,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: it's obviously not the weather because we all have the
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: same weather. It's not the tax structure because South Dakota
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't have any taxes and Minnesota's got a lot of taxes.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So it's not that. What is it? What's going on
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: in our state that makes it so that we are
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: growing at one half, one quarter, one third the rate
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: of other states? And I think that's fundamentally, Iowans are
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: not happy with the inability to make the case When
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: I was governor, about nearly one half of the growth
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: that did take place took place in the period of
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: time when Chet and I were governors. The Census Bureau
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: came into my office and said, you know, you've done
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: something that hadn't been done in 70 years in this state.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: And I said, what is that? They said, we reversed
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: the out-migration. You know, we had some policies that were inviting.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: We had policies that were exciting to the Vision Iowa
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: program and the wind energy program and, you know, early
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: childhood stuff we did.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: People.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: liked it, which is why we went from one party
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: control in 1998, a voter registration edge of about 100,000
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: on the Republican side in eight years. I was replaced
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: by a Democrat first time in the history of the state.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: He had a Democratic legislature, which was the first time
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: that occurred with a Democratic governor in 44 years, and
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: we had the voter registration edge. So You know, it matters.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: It matters who's in charge and it matters the job
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: that you do. And if you do a pretty good
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: job and you're in charge and you don't go too far,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: too far, too fast, you bring the people along with you.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: They're willing to give you, you know, a lot of support.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: And I think right now the state's just in a
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: place where people aren't happy. And generally when they aren't happy,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: they vote for change. We'll see.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Why do you think I look, I, I, I have,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I have two schools of thought when it comes to
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: what makes a swing state. What makes a state purple?
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: What makes it red or blue? Now, I'm of the belief,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I'm a purist on democracy. I think every state has
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: a 50% fulcrum. It's your job as a candidate to
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: figure it out. And so whether that's Idaho, Vermont, or
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: anywhere in between. But we've seen, and I've always thought Iowa,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I've always believed it was the caucuses that created a
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: mindset with the Iowa voter that they take every election
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: a little more seriously, that they don't put partisan identification
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: over everything else. If you look at New Hampshire and
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Iowa and their dominance with the presidential primary selection process,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: they also ended up becoming swing states. Demographically, they don't
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: look like any other of the swing states, the battleground
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: states we see. To me, it's because, well, you have
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: so much time that both parties spend in the state.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: They actually get to know every part of the state
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and it makes voters feel as if they have a
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: true choice. Um, so my thesis has always been the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: caucuses created, created Iowa as a swing state, um, or
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: certainly reinforced it with voters. And it just, it just
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: creates that civic, just raises the civic floor, I guess,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: as might be a way to do it. Um, in
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: your head in 2028 would you be advising a Democratic
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: presidential candidate to be out there because it takes a
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: little bit of work to make it a swing state
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: but they may look at the math and say is
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: six electoral votes worth it well.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: That's a good question and it's not one that it's
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: one that I might have a slightly different answer than
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: you might expect I mean first of all I get
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: what you say about the caucus, but I also think
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: the caucus essentially made the Democratic Party a lazy party.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't have, but I guess it did.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: It did.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I don't disagree.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: That candidate who would be coming into Iowa will, I think,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: find a stronger Democratic Party in the last couple of years,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: but still work to do. It's going to be a competitive,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a pretty competitive race.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: So six electoral votes might be pretty important.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: True.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Right? And depending upon how it ultimately comes down, who
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: are the two or three that are left, and what
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: their characteristics are, or whether they're very, very progressive or
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: more moderate, those six votes may be extremely important. So
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I would suggest that they may want to develop relationships
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: with folks And I think some I think some people
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: are doing that. They're helping Rob. They're helping Josh. They're
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: helping the Democratic candidates and developing relationship. And they're showing
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: up several of them. And they're doing you know, they're
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: spending a day here, two days, which is nice. But
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: they're not going to be anywhere near. It's not going
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: to be anywhere near us. I mean, I can remember that,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: you know, this is the famous classic.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Boy, in 98, how many people were always wanting to
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: help you out, right?
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I was 23 points behind this time at
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: this point in time in the race. With the exception
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: of Al Gore and Bill Bradley were helpful.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: But that was it. And I got $ 25, 000.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Took the DGA a while to get there. $ 25, 000 from
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: the DGA.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Okay. Anyway. But, you know, who remembers? Who remembers? Yeah.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: No, you'll never remember. No, I always say this. One
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: thing I've learned about politicians, and I learned this from
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: as a reporter and consultants, which is tell me about
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: their first experience in how they won. And I will
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: tell you how they always believe they never forget that
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: first experience. No, that's right.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: It was magical. I mean, very few candidates close the gap.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: In three or four weeks of that magnitude. Anyway, President Obama,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: best caucus story ever. I'm on Marine One with him.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: We're traveling to Newton to an event. And Gibbs basically
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: says to him, he says, tell Tom about the cell
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: phone story. And he's looking out the window and he goes,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I spent 89 days in this state. 89
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: days campaigning. And he said, one night, at the end
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: of a long night, I get in the car, and
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: an aide that's probably half his age hands him a
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: cell phone and says, Senator, here are some calls you've
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: got to make. And the senator says, well, who are
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: these people? Are they labor leaders? Are they county chairs?
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Who are they? Well, they're high school students, sir. Well,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: he said. I've had nine events today. I'm not going
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: to call high school students. And the agent, well, sir,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: this is really important. We think they're going to be
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: the difference. Please. So he gets the phone and you
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: can just, you know, you just know he's not happy
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: dialing the number. And he gets this young lady on
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: the phone and he says, I forget what her name was, Barbara, whatever. Barbara,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: this is Barack Obama. I'd like to talk to you
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: for just a minute about the caucuses. And this young
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: lady says, well, Barack, not Senator. Well, Barack, I'm in
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: a yearbook meeting. And if you want to call me
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: back in 20 minutes, I'll be happy to talk to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: you then. So, you know, that was the mentality, right?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: A little humility, huh?
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Well, and that is what drove people crazy about the
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: whole thing. You know, frankly, it's going to happen in
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: any state.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: You know, South Carolina is going to have that. I mean,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: and New Hampshire definitely has it. And it's understandable. It's
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: human nature. Right. You got all these people coming and it's,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: you know, you want them to sign your book and
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: you want them to have your picture. And it's but
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: it is the process that we put people through. And
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: it's somehow some way. shows the character of the individual
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: and shows the strengths and weaknesses?
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Look, I'm a huge advocate of it. I'm sorry to
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: see it go. I understand why it's not going to
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: be resurrected. Not having a result for everybody to feel
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: good about two cycles in a row didn't help with
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: both 16 and 20. So I understand why it's not there.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I think, though, the loss of a truly rural community
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: majority Midwestern state. Sorry, Michigan. I'm not saying there aren't
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: rural parts of Michigan. There are rural parts of every state.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: But we know what the candidates will do in Michigan.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: They'll be in Detroit. They'll be in Grand Rapids. And
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: that's about it. And it is, I do think, and
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you feel this way, if you don't make
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: candidates learn how to talk to rural America, and look,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: maybe in South Carolina, look, I think the Democratic Party's
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: problems in Mississippi and South Carolina are are very similar
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: to me as their problems in a place like Kansas,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: South Dakota, or in Iowa, which is rural blacks don't
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: feel as if the party cares and shows up. And
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: you probably ran into this in the ag department, didn't you?
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Well, and we spent a lot of time in those
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: rural parts talking to folks, right? Yeah. I mean, I
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: would encourage any candidate who's thinking about running for president
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: to spend time in those rural places because you're not
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: going to be president unless you squeeze the margins in
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: those rural places. I mean, we just can't get beat
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: 80-20 in these rural places. If we get beat 60-40,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: it's a whole different situation. And the whole notion that
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: somehow you're going to overcome the gap. I mean, there
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: are a lot of rural counties. And if you lose
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: 1,000 by 10, well, Al Gore in 2000, he won
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Polk County by 30,000 votes or 10,000 votes. And he
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: lost Sioux County by 10,000 votes. I mean, you know,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: you got to play in that. And Democrats have to have.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: And I think what we've outlined here today is a
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: way of messaging by saying, look, I get it. And
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: the other side deserves credit for figuring out lower taxes
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: and no regulation. And, you know, shame on us for
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: not having something to offer to you. that would at
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: least give you pause, okay? Well, now we do. We
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: wanna make that farm, we wanna help you make that
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: farm the most profitable place it can possibly be, recognizing
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: that the current system is not designed for your kind
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: of farm, but you know what? The world needs your
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: kind of farm. The country needs your kind of farm.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Your community needs your kind of farm.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: And I think- Let me leave you with this one issue,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: which is data centers, because the land, that these guys
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: are gonna want is in rural America. Would you recommend
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: to a farmer with a lot of land to lease
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: a piece of their land for a data center as
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: a way of generating extra income for their farm?
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I would rather them basically take that same acreage and
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: create a local regional food system opportunity out of it
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: or energy opportunity out of it. because I think it
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: would be better for the rural community to do that.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: And if you lose that land to a data center,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: you don't get it back.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the 220 million acres that we've lost. I mean,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: think about that. That is basically 25, almost 25 percent
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: of the landmass that was in farming that's no longer
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: in farming today. And just in the lifetime of us,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: our professional life. Right. I mean, it. It's a significant
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: loss of real estate. This is really good soil that
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: could be producing a lot of stuff. If we had
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a transition to a bio-based economy where we're essentially transitioning
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: everything that's grown on that farm, everything that's raised on
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: that farm is converted into something more valuable, then it
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: is a completely different economic circumstance. Frankly, to your libertarian friends-
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Basically say, well, that's how you reduce the amount of subsidies.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: You make it so that they can actually make a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: living from the doggone thing, right? Right now, best year ever,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: best year ever, 90% of farms either lost money or
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: the majority of money for their family came from off-farm income.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: That is not a system that's working as it should.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: All right, let me get you out of here on this.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I've said Iowa is sort of the blue wave state, meaning-
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: You'll know how big the wave is based on how
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: well Democrats do in Iowa, that it's, you know, the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: governor's race feels like we think we know what direction
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: that's headed for all the ways we talked about, nothing
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: can count your chickens. But what's your definition of a
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: successful night for Democrats in Iowa?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously the governor's race is critically important. Josh's race
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: remains competitive and it's, uh, you know, it's too close
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: to call, uh, circumstance, I suspect. And maybe one or
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: two of the congressional candidates that is running in a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: competitive race actually wins. Uh, and, and maybe the legislature,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: maybe the Democrats pick up a few seats in the legislature,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: but I will tell you, uh, I caution all of
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: this based on two things. One, because I was 23
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: points behind and I ended up winning. So, uh, You know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the Republican candidate for governor, people are going to get
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: to know him. And, you know, he comes across pretty well. So,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: you know, they have four debates. Who knows what happens
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: during those debates? And then secondly, there is a lot
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: of money that's going to come into the state. And
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: that means you're going to get something in the mail
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: every single day. You're going to get something on your
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: cell phone every single minute. And you can't turn your
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: TV on without seeing something horrible being said by somebody
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: about any one of those candidates. So this thing is not,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: it's going to be very competitive and very, very tough
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: for Democrats.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised that Zach Nung and Marianne Miller-Meeks joined
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Democrats on that War Powers resolution?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: No, no. I mean, that's a reflection of the fact
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: that they're in competitive races. But, you know, it's an
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: interesting vote that they took. Because, you know, the flip
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: side of that vote is, well, wait a minute, you know,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: What has changed in a relatively short period of time?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Why now and not before?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why now and not before? Is it because of politics? Well,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: that's not what we're looking for. I mean, people are
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: looking for somebody that's– they're looking for authentic, right? And
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: that's what Rob's selling. He said, I'm authentic. Don't put
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: a label on me, Democrat, Republican. I'm Rob Sand. Here's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: what I believe. And I'm going to show up. And
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do 100 town hall meetings. And you
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: know what? I'm going to give the microphone to a Republican.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: And they may ask me a really tough question. But
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: you know what? That's what I want the job. And
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: that's the nature of the job. I mean, that's why
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: people are drawn to Rob. I think he's authentic. Quirky.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Look, he is. And he You just want more politicians
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: to do that. I just want to have more access
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter whether I agree with them. If he
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: wins and, you know, Phil Weiser in Colorado, same kind
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: of deal. If he wins and all of a sudden
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: you guys are going to start talking about, well, why
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: did they win? Well, they were authentic. And then who
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: saw that?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: They ran different. That's right.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: No, in this world of AI, I think that's going
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: to even be matter more than ever.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: When I briefly ran, I said, you know, I'm not
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: a rock star, but I was rock solid. And of course,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: you know, that wasn't enough.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Boy, I don't, I were, you know, it's funny, the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: attention economy punishes your type of politics. And it's exactly
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: the type of politics that people tell me they actually
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: want back. And I just, you know, we have this
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: asymmetric issue, right? The Attention economy rewards your Marjorie Taylor Greene's,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: your AOC's. I say this, I'm not, you know, they
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: both have valid opinions. I don't want to say they don't,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: but it rewards that style of politicking. You're sort of very,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and Rob, you know, Rob doesn't go viral, his stuff. You're,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: you know, and yet it's what people say they want.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: And when they see it, they prefer it over this
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: attention economy business.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll see in November.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for sure. BattleBox, the ultimate tell. Great to
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: talk with you, Tom. Appreciate it.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.