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The Battle Plan That Helped Create the Han Dynasty | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel podcast,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Chinese history series, where we talk about Chinese history from
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will be the
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: present day, thereabouts. As we are experiencing our own sort of,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: you know, fall, rise and fall of hegemonic powers, we
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: can always look back in history to this period in China,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: where not the first hegemon has fallen, but the first
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you know, relatively centralized empire has fallen and a whole
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: slew of nobles from the former contending states have come
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: out of the woodwork to stake claims to various territories.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And now there has been a kind of fragile equilibrium
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: that has been established. But we emphasize this is fragile
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and we will talk about how it's, you know, it's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: not going to last. I am the perpetual guest, JJ,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and welcoming us back is Carl, trapped in his hotel
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: room during a typhoon in Shanghai, I think.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Hi, JJ, how are you? Yes, right now I'm experiencing
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: the typhoon White Dolphin in Shanghai. This is my second
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: day spending inside my hotel room, so I'm very glad
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: to do an episode on the Chinese history. We are
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: back in 206 BC in the Chinese history. This is
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: in the aftermath of the collapse of the Qing dynasty
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: and the winner, you know, the winner that emerged, the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: young commander Shang Yu, he has became the de facto,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: a de facto ruler of the rebels by granting out
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: thieves and handing out favors and land and titles to
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: all the generals that follow him. Essentially, he did a,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: a coup against all the rulers of the six states
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: who sent them to overthrow the Qing Dynasty. But this left,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: but Xiang Yu's arrangement left a lot of disgruntled people,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you know, the people who felt they had been wronged
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: by his impeachment unfairly. The one in particular is Liu Bang,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: because Liu Bang he technically overthrew the Qin dynasty. He
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: was the first to break into the Qin heartland. He
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: accepted the surrender from the last Qin king. And according
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: to the promise of King Huai of Chu, whoever overthrew
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the Qin dynasty first gets to be the king of Qin. Yet,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: you know, Shang Yu decided to chip him. Because Shang
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Yu promised the former land of Qin to the surrendered
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Qin general Zhang Han and his subordinates. Instead, he gave
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang Sichuan Basin, which at that time is considered
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: sort of exile because Sichuan Basin is really isolated geographically
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and culturally. And, you know, Fan Zhen, you know, the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: advisor to Xiang Yu rub it in by saying, well,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you know, Sichuan was also part of the old Qin land.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: So technically we're honoring the promise of King Huayouzu. And
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's advisor and friend Zhang Liang, because he was
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: good friends with Xiang Yu's uncle, Xiang Bo, he, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: bribed Xiang Bo so to allow Liu Bang to give
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the additional land of Hanzhong, which is just north of
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: the Sichuan Basin, but south of the Qinling Mountains. So
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that way, Liu Bang's domain will be immediately bordering the
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: former Qin land, which is only separated by the Qinling Mountains.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So he has access to the southern end of the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: passes that will cross those Qinling Mountains. It's not as
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: if he's as if one of these newly-infieved Qing kings
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: holds those passes on the southern side as well.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: He's already got the entrance in a way. Well, Zhang
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Liang actually advised Liu Bang. He said, look, not to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: arouse suspicion of Shangyi and to also protect your rare.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I suggest you, when you go through the mountain passes
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: of Qingli, burn up the trail behind me. The massive
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Qinglin Mountain that divides the former Qing land with basically
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Sichuan and the surrounding region is actually the dividing line between,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: official geographic dividing line between North and South China. Because
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: all the monsoon winds, moisture cannot push beyond the Qinglin Mountains.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And so Northern China stays dry while the southern part,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: south of Qinglin Mountain is wet and rice planting region.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And to get through the Qinglin Mountains, there were some
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: mountain road that was carved either during or even maybe
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: even before the Qing invasion of the Sichuan And these
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: roads are basically building on cliffs. The construction is that
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: you punch a hole in the rock surface of the cliff,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: and then you stuck like a three meter long wooden
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: plank into those holes. And then on top of these
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: wooden planks, then you lay down more wood to make
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: a road. And the road is only usually wide enough
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: for one horse to pass through. And after certain distance,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: there will be a spot where it's wide enough for
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: two horses. So you can have like the caravan coming
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: from two directions can make their transition over there. But
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: it takes a lot of time, energy, a lot of
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: labor to build such a trail. But Zhang Liang's advice
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: is when you pass into Sichuan, when you go head south,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: pull up the wooden plank behind you. So that way,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: you don't need to be worried about being attacked. And
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: also you give the Xiang Yu the false complacency that
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: you don't plan to ever coming out of Sichuan Basin again,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you know. And in the north, you know, in the
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: former Qing land, Xiang Yu installed these three Qing generals,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Zhang Han, Dong Yi, and Sima Xin. This is basically
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu's plan for divide and conquer. Because the two
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: of the person he most worried about as a potential
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: rival is first the surrendered Qing general, Zhang Han. The
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: second one is Liu Bang. So by this arrangement, he's
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: making these two fight each other, essentially. Liu Bang wants
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to go out, leave Sichuan, he has to go north
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: into the former Qing land where he will come into
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: conflict with Zhang Han. So this is Xiang Yu's divide
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and conquer strategy. But out of the two, Xiang Yu
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: is more worried about Zhang Han, the surrendered Qing general.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Because Zhang Han used to be pretty much invincible up
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: to the Battle of Juelu. And this is why Xiang
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Yu carry out a massacre of 200,000 surrendered Qing troops
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: because he didn't want Zhang Han to possess such a
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: potent fighting force. And even so, Shang Yu decided to
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: divide up the former Qing land into three parts. Zhang
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Han only receives the middle part with Zhang Han's subordinates
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Sima Xin and Dong Yi each receive other two pieces.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So collectively, the former Qing land now because it was
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: divided into three parts. Now that area, Guangdong area. Zhang
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Han's territory is the western chunk. It's the middle, I think. Or, yeah, western.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Or middle, or western, western. You're right, western. And the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: land of former Qin within the past, the Guangdong area,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: is also known as San Qin Da Di, the Three
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Qin Land, because of the Xiang Yu's division into three parts. Um,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: so that, that, that name retained until, until today. Uh,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: but the, you know, when Liu was first entered into
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: the Chin heartland, he had hundred thousand, uh, army because
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of rebels have joined him, uh, have joined him.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: But by now, you know, many of them just decide
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: to return yeast, uh, you know, uh, and. Liu Bang
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: only retained a small portion of that 100,000 forces. And furthermore,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: most of Liu Bang's men came from the East, from
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: the former six-state land. Most of them don't want to
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: go to Sichuan. They want to go home, right? Their
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: original goal was to follow Liu Bang for fame and fortune,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: maybe lose the Qing capital and then take the booties home.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: But now that... Liu Bang is going to Sichuan. This
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: is like an exile for most of these people, To
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: go to this very humid culture. It's as if they
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: lost the war.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: If they had lost the war and not been executed,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: they probably would have been punished with exile to some
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: faraway place.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So Liu Bang pretty soon started to suffer mass desertion. uh,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: of his followers. Like he, uh, you know, by the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: time he made it into Sichuan, uh, Hanzhong area, he
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: only had 30,000 men left, you know, from the original
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand that he had. Um, and every day people
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: are running away. Um, and you know, first it was
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: commons foot soldiers and pretty soon like officers start deserting, uh, generals,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And one day somebody came to Liu Bang's camp and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: tell him his advisor Xiao He has ran away. And
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang must felt like the world just collapsed because
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Xiao He has been following Liu Bang from the first,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: from the time when Liu Bang first raised the banner
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: of revolt, right? And Xiao He is one of the,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you know, he's one of his most helpful advisors. And, and, and, but,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: but after half a day, uh, a second report came
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: in and Xiao He came back, Xiao He came back.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So Niu Bang was relieved. And it turns out, um,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Xiao He didn't desert. He, Xiao He actually left to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: chase down a deserter. Um, and this deserter that, um, was,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Xiao He felt was so important that he didn't have
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: time to inform Niu Bang. So he just got on
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: a horse to chase down this deserter. This deserter is
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a young man of 22 years old by the name
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: of Han Xin. And Han Xin would become one of
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the famous military genius of the Chinese history. And this
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: is why Xiao He was in a hurry to chase
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: him down before he got away. And Han Xin has
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a very interesting biography because he By his surname, Han,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: he is probably from the cadet branch of the former
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Han royal family. And because he was from aristocracy, he
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: probably received an aristocratic education. But aristocratic education doesn't prepare
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you to... support yourself without your aristocratic stipends. So, um,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: you know, when, when the Han state was vanquished, you know,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Han Xing was found wandering around as a teenager. Um,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: he was wandering around the former land and he will
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: often go around carrying his sword. Uh, and, but he,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: he lacks a skill, basically skill to support himself. So, Fortunately,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: one sheriff, a local sheriff, came to appreciate him and
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: would invite him to stay in his home. So Han
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Xing would mooch off the sheriff's family for like half
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a year. And it stopped to the point where, so
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: he would always come during the mealtime, right? And then
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: have his food and beef. up to the point where
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the sheriff's wife really hates doing that. He hates feeding
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: this butcher. So what she would do, she would start
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: cooking earlier. She will cook earlier in the morning and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: then she will eat before Han Xing gets here. So
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: by the time Han Xing arrived, there will be no
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: food and she makes no gesture to offer Han Xing
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: any food. So after a while, Han Xing caught on
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: what was going on. So he became very angry and
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: he decided to leave. Um, And then he tried to
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: try his hands at fishing. Well, again, apparently his aristocratic
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: education didn't include fishing because he wasn't having much success.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So there was an old wash woman by the river.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: He would come to see Han Xin, trying really hard
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: to fish and not getting anything. So she took pity
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: on him. So she would share her food with him
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: every day. And this also went down for like half
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: a month. And so eventually Han Xin was very grateful.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And he told her, it's like one day when I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: became rich and powerful, I would repay you or repay
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: your kindness. But at this, the old lady was, felt insulted.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: She got up and pointing at him. So like, look,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: you are young, you're a healthy young man. Yet, you know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you don't do anything to feed yourself. I took pity
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: on you. That's why I give you food. You know, like,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: because you're obviously some kind of fallen, former aristocrat. But
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I took pity on you. That's why I feed you.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Not that I was expecting any kind of compensation later.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not that type of person. So she left him
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: a huff. So Han Xin, his air of wandering around
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: with his sword attracted other people's attention. One is a
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: local bully. So one time he confronted Han Xin and said, no,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you look big and strong. You are big and tall
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: and you carry your sword, but I think you're actually
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: a coward. You're a coward. If you dare to die,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: then attack. So he blocked Han Xin's path. If you
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: dare to die, try to attack me. Try to stab me.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: If you're scared to die, then if you're scared to
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: try to attack me, then here, you can crawl between
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: my legs. And Han Xin paused and thought for a minute.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: And then he got on his knees and he crawled
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: between the bully's legs and everybody just laughed at Han Xin,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you know, what a coward. And, and, you know, obviously
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Han Xin didn't want to cause any trouble because at
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the time, you know, the Qin law was pretty severe
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: about people who injured another, another person. And plus that
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: he was probably an exile from the exiled Han royal family,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: he probably didn't want to attract attention to himself, you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to the Qin authorities. So he swallowed his pride, you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: crawled under the legs of the local bullies. So this
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: has become like a famous story of Han Qin's early life.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: And Sima Qian, the record grand historian, he would know
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: this because he went to, when he write the record
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of grand historian, he went to the place where Han
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Xin grew up. And he asked around about these local
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: legends and stories of Han Xin. So when Han Xin
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: was 20 years old, he decided to throw his lots
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: with the rebels, Xiang Liang, Xiang Yu's uncle. But then
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Xiang Liang got himself killed. So he went to switch
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: to follow Xiang Yu. And he became Xiang Yu's secretary.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: And on many occasions, he will offer his advice to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu. But Xiang Yu never took his strategies, you know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: never took his advice. So he felt no, he sees
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: no future following Shang Yu. So when, when Shang Yu
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: finally enters the Qing capital, just, just after, right after
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang was conceived as the King of Han and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: take his followers to Sichuan, Han Xin left Xiang Yu's
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: camp and joined Liu Bang. And one time, he was
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: made a low-level officer. And for whatever reason, one time,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Han Xin was caught with a group of a dozen
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: of his fellow soldiers. They were about to be executed
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: for violating some kind of military discipline. And Just when
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: it was Han Xin's turn, he looked up and he
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: saw the commanding officer, Sha Houyin. Sha Houyin is the
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: old buddy of Liu Bang, as we mentioned earlier. Sha
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Houyin was the one who, when they were horse playing,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: when he and Liu Bang was horse playing, Liu Bang
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: accidentally stabbed Sha Houyin. And because of that, Liu Bang's
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: enemy went to accuse Liu Bang of injuring another person. Um,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and intending to get new bond, put it in jail,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: but shot in the night was new bonds fall. And,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: and for that, uh, for, but for bearing false witness shot,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: how he was actually punished by caning. And then he
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: was thrown in jail for half a year. So was
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the type of guy that, you know, literally went to, uh,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: went to jail for his, his buddy. These two are close.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Now Xia Houyin is a commander and he was walking
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: by Han Xin when Han Xin looked up and said,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: does my lord, not wish to conquer all under.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: Heaven why would you execute a brave warrior at a
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: time like this and Sha Hou Ying was startled and
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: then he was impressed so he decided to have a
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: private audience with this lowly officer Han Xin.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And Sha Hou Ying came away even more impressed. So
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: he recommended him to Liu Bang. And Liu Bang gave
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Han Xin a new position as a logistic officer in
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: charge of the army granary. And that's where Han Xin
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: would meet Xiao He. And Xiao He was also very impressed.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And he found that Han Xin devised a a way
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to manage the grain, like first in, first out. So
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: he will have two doors on the granary, right? So
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the new grain will come from one side through one door.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: The old grain will leave through the other door. So
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that will make sure there will be no grains that
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: pile up in a corner that's rotten and somehow never
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: get access to. It's first in, first out. So Xiao
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: He thought, wow, this person is organization genius. He shouldn't
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: be like... It's a waste of talent for him to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: remain in this position. So Xiao He often takes the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: time to recommend, also try to recommend Han Xin for
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: higher post to Liu Bang. But before Liu Bang acted
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: on Xiao He's advice to give Han Xin an promotion.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I guess at this time, Han Xing had stuck around
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's troops long enough and felt that his talent
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: was not being appreciated. So he also decided to desert.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Xiao He heard the news that Han Xing deserted. It
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: was in the middle of the night. So Xiao He
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: didn't have time to inform Liu Bang, like, I'm going
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: to go chase after the deserter. So he got on
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: a horse and started chasing down Han Xin and finally
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: found him in a mountain road. And Xiao He said, look,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: if you come back with me, I promise you, I
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: will give you a worthy position. I swear on my
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: own family's honor. And so Han Xin then decided to
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: follow Xiao He back to the camp. And now Xiao
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: He related the story back to Liu Bang. And he said,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: if you wish to be able to compete with Xiang Yu,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you have to make use of Han Xin. He's a
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: military genius that the world has never seen. And Liu
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Bang was like, okay, so what post should I give him?
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Xiao Ge said, you should make him the grand commander
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: of all your army. And Liu Fang was shocked, but
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Liu Fang was the one he trusted, Xiao Ge. So
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: he said, okay, fine. Just call him in. I'll give
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: him the new title. But Xiao Ge was like, wait, wait, wait.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I understand more pay. You don't care about etiquette. But
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: something as serious as this, you have to take it seriously. First,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you got to fast, bathe, You know, you've got to
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: build an altar. And then, so everybody knew you are
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: taking this very seriously. You're seriously trusting this very important
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: position of the Grand Commander position to Han Xin. So,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Niu Bang followed the advice. And this surprised a lot
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: of people, you know, who knew Han Xin. It's like, wait, what?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Han Xin is now our Grand Commander? You know, what
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: did they see in this guy? And And then after
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: he had this, you know, Han Xin, now the grand
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: commander of the Han army at the ripe age of 22,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: now Liu Bang is curious, you know, what can Han
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Xin offer? So he had a private audience. Well, he
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: has a lot of trust in Xiao He's words. Because
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: before this time, he didn't really have time to get
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: to know Han Xin. He just, based on Xiao He's
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: words alone, he gave the command of the army to
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: this 22-year-old. And now he wants to have a private
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: audience with Han Xin. And Han Xin asked him, how
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: do you compare yourself with Shang Yuvi? Liu Bang thought
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: about it. It's like, yeah. You know, I'm not as, obviously,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: charging into the battle, breaking the enemy line, I'm not
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: as good as Xiang Yu. And Xiang Yu is definitely
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: stronger right now in his position. He has more army,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: more experienced troops. And Han Xin said, that's true. But
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu also has his weaknesses. And you also have
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: your advantage. Right now, your advantage is that all the people,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: all your followers, they're all from the East. So they
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: all want to return home. This is why this, if
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: you leave, if you promise them, if you lead them home,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: they will follow you. You know, they're all very eager
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: to return home. That's to your advantage. Two, Xiang Yu is,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I have known Xiang Yu for a long time.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: you know, Xiang Yu is very, he outwardly, he is
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: very kind and generous to his soldiers. You know, he
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: will eat with them. He will share the same kind
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of burdens with them. And if a soldier is sick,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: you know, Xiang Yu will personally visit and sometimes he
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: will even cry, you know, when a soldier is injured
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: or sick. This is why a lot of people you know,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: common soldiers follow him as a commander. But yet, when
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: it's time to delegate responsibilities and handing out power, Xiang
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yu was very stingy. You know, there was a time
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: when Xiang Yu was supposed to give command to a general,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: but Xiang Yu was holding the seal of command in
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: his hand and didn't want to let go until he
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: was He was playing with the seal until he wore
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: out all the edges of the seal before he was
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: finally lit. Han Xin said he has the compassion of
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a woman. You know, he likes to show small favors, right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But when it's time to actually handing out real power
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: and rewards, you know, he's too stingy. But the problem
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: is why would people follow you to the death? it's
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: because they're expecting some big return, big rewards at the end,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you know, but, but because Xiang Yu is, is a
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: very stingy in handing out reward, you know, this is
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: an area where you have advantage over Xiang Yu, you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the fact that Liu Bang just handed over the title
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of the grand commanders to this unproven 22 year old, right. Um,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: and so he said, you know, that that's one. And,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: and also, um, Our immediate concern is the three Qin
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: kings to the north of us. But the advantage that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: you have is you were able to win the hearts
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: and minds of the Qin people when you first entered
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the Qin heartland by abolishing all the harsh Qin laws
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: and by reframing your soldiers from looting and by protecting
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the local people's property. This is a sharp contrast to
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: what Xiang Yu and his troops did. And so at
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: that time, the prominent family of Qin all wanted you
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: to be king. Yet Xiang Yu handed the Qin land
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: to the three surrendered Qin generals. Now those three Qin generals,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: even though they are the people of Qin, but they're
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: hated by the locals because they led hundreds of thousands
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: of sons of Qin to war. campaign in the East
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: and hundreds of thousands perished in the battle. And then
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the 200,000 who have surrendered to Shang Yu by their
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: decision got butchered. So the people, they have no trust
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: of the people of Qin anymore. In fact, the people
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: of Qin hated these guys' guts, right? So you, this
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: is where you have an advantage. Um, we just need
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to be able to, uh, strike quickly. If we're able
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: to strike quickly, um, the advantage on our side, because
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: all our troops, all they want to do right now
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: is to return home, you know, and you will be
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: able to leverage that to your advantage. Uh, so Liu
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Bang was very impressed with this. And, but this still
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: remain a problem, how to get back, how to, how
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: to cross the Qingding mountain because they have burned up the, the,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: the passageway behind them. So at that time, there were
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: three mountain passes across the Qingding mountain. Uh, they burned
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: up the, the, the passageway on one of the mountain paths.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So there remained two, three other ways to reach north.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: But the problem is Zhang Han also knew. He's obviously
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: guarding the northern side of the passes, making sure the
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's troops do not pass. Han Xin advised, supposedly,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: This is the famous Ming Xiu Jian Dao An, Lu
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Chen Chang. He chose one of the paths where he
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: had one of the general Guan Yin to supervise rebuilding
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: of the trail. Because it's a big effort, attract a
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: lot of attention. So Zhang Han would concentrate his forces
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: to guard that the opening of that pass. Meanwhile, Hanxin
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: took the main forces of Han to traverse the Qining
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: mountain on a different passageway. So this is known as
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: another famous Chinese idiom. It's like, you are, it looks
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: like you're rebuilding the trail, but you are actually sneaking
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: through the back door. But I saw commentary say like, that's,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: that's just, this whole story was actually from a Ruan
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: dynasty play, right? That this was, this was basically later
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: embellishment because, you know, Samhain is not stupid. You know, he,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: there's no way he would only guard one pass and
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: leave the other two passes alone. But the real problem
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: facing Zhang Han is he didn't know because he only
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: had limited forces. At that time, Zhang Han has about 30,000 troops, right?
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: He cannot spread, you know, if he choose to guard,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: put equal number of troops on each pass, his troops
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: will be spread thin, right? And so he will have
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: to make an educational guess on where the Han army
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: will concentrate their attack. And on the other hand, he
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: apparently underestimated the Han forces because as I've mentioned, Liu
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Bang's advisor, Xiao He, he's an organizational genius. He's very
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: strong in logistics. In the time that lasting a year
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: that Liu Bang has been in Sichuan, Xiao He was
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: able to mobilize over 100,000 you know, from the original 30,000
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: troops that Liu Bang led into Sichuan. But by the
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: time they were ready to cross the Qining Mountain, Han
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Xin had under his command 100,000 men. And this actually
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: allowed the Han troops to attack simultaneous, to march simultaneously
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: through all three passageways. So for Zhang Han, he cannot,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: He almost had to split his forces because....
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know where the main force is coming from.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Because the disparity of forces is now so large that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: all of the attacks look like the main attack, given
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the fact that Zhang Han only has about one-third of
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the total forces that Liu Bangya has.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the main problem. So in any case,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Han Xin was able to successfully surprise Zhang Han by
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: suddenly appearing in Guanzhong. And when Zhang Han led his
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: force to meet Han Xin, he was defeated because he
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: was outnumbered. And on top of that, Zhang Han really
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: lost the popular support. And the Han forces were quickly
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: able to besiege Zhang Han in his main fortress. There,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Zhang Han would hold out for the next eight months
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: because Zhang Han is a very strong defender. He's very
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: good at... In the past, that's how Zhang Han was
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: able to get out of the jam. At the time
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: when Zhang Han was first defeated by Xiang Yu's uncle,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Xiang Liang, he also fortified himself in an impregnable position
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: until he received reinforcement to launch counter attack. And this
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: time Zhang Han is building, is holding down the fort
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: in hoping that Xiang Yu would come to reinforce him. Well,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that would have been the case if it wasn't for
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the fact that Xiang Yu at this point was distracted
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: in the east. simultaneously and this is what's due.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: To because this is like uh this is like a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: nine ten month campaign basically right normally it would there
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: would have been time like you know if shang yu
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: was not distracted to send the forces west and also
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: like in theory i imagine the other two qin kings
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: could have helped if they had been inclined to so
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: either whatever either they had like less than troops than
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: like zhang han had or comparably fewer or they were
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: like whatever probably the um disparity of force is still
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: like favors still favors liu bang even with those two
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: other qin kings right so maybe they did send some
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: relief but it was just sufficiently inconsequential that no one
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: has like recorded.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: It yeah and uh And in fact, even though Zhang
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Han was able to hold up in his fortress for
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: eight months, the Han forces were able to take over
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: the rest of the Qin heartland within a month. And
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that was how quickly they were able to conquer it.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: So Zhang Han was like holding up in one lonely city.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Han Xin, you know, he supervised the besieging of Zhang
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Han city while Liu Bang led the rest of the
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: main Han forces east out of the Hangu Pass, you know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: within a month. Liu Bang already let his main thrust
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: his army east because, you know, like I said, a
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: lot of Liu Bang's old followers, they wanted to go home.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: You know, that's their aim. And the reason that Xiang
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Yu was not able to respond in time because he was,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: like I said, he was distracted in the east. And
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: this was due to you know, Shang Yu's impeachment scheme
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: that caused a lot of discontent. You know, one particular
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: guy that Shang Yu pissed off was the prime minister
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: of Qi, the de facto ruler of Qi, Tian Zong. Because,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: you know, For one, Tian Dong didn't send any army
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to help the rebels either before or after the Battle
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: of Ju Lu. In fact, Tian Dong, Xiang Yu really
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: did not like Tian Dong and vice versa.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: He holds Tian Rong responsible for his uncle Xiang Long's death.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I think they did not reinforce that. Yeah, because Tian Zhong...
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Back then, when Zhang Han was attacking the six states,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Tian Zhong's cousin, Tian Dan, was a self-declared king of Qi.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And Tian Dan led the Qi forces to come to
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: the rescue of the Wei state. But Tian Dan's army
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: was defeated and Tian Dan was killed. And Tian Zhong
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: let the remainder of the Qi forces retreat into the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: city of Dong'e, where he was besieged by Zhang Han's forces.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: And at that critical juncture, Xiang Yu's uncle, Xiang Liang,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: led the true forces to Dong'e, defeated Zhang Han's force,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: saved Tian Rong's ass. That allowed Tian Rong to go
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: back to the state of Qi to take power. But
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: once he took power, well, when I say take power,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: because when Tian Rong returned back to the Qi, he
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: found that people in Xi elected a new king. He
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: was not happy about that. He's like, look, my cousin
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: just died. If anyone should be king, it should be me.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Or you should have asked me who would be the king.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: You know, instead you just, you guys just elect. So
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: he chased out the new king and his supporters. And
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: when Shang Yu's uncle Shang Liang requested Tian Zhong for support,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: to take down Zhang Han, Tian Rong said, oh, I
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: can do that, provided you send me the head of
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the self-declared king of Qi that just ousted, you know,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: and his generals. And Xiang Liang didn't do that, and
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: the state of Zhao didn't do that. And Tian Rong said, well,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: if you don't want to help me, I'm not going
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: to help you. And so he decided to set out
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the war. But even while that was happening, a grandson
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: of the last king of Qi from the Warring States period. Tian'an,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: he declared himself the king of Qi in one part
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: of the Qi. So Tian'an sent his general Tian Du
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: to lead an army to put down Tian'an's rebellion. And
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: when the rebellion was put down, Tian Du led his
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: troops to join the Chu army at the Battle of Juru,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: defying Tian'an's orders. And later Tian'an was able to recover
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: his domain. Then he also led an army to join
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: the forces of Xiangyu at the Battle of Jun. So
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: when it's time for Xiangyu to hand out land and titles,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: so he made Tiandu, the former general of Tianzong, the
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: new king of Qi. And he made Tian'an, he divided
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: the Qi into three parts. He granted Tian'an the, as
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the king of Jiaobei, Jibei, which is kind of another
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: western half of the Qi. And then he appointed the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: king of Qi, which was propped up by Tianzong, who
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: also happened to be Tianzong's nephew, as the king of
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Jiao Dong, which is the tip of the Shandong Peninsula.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But there's no title for Tian Zong because Xiang Yu
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: hated Tian Zong. And when Tian Zong heard about this,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: he was outraged. He said, how dare you promote my subordinate,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Tian Du, as now the king of Qi, as my boss.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I would not accept that. So he sent an army
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: to defeat Tian Du, to kick Tian Du out. And
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: he told his nephew, okay, under no circumstances, you are
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: to follow Xiang Yu's order to go to your fief.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: in the east. You are to remain here as a
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: king of Qi, you know. But his nephew was really
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: scared of Xiang Yu. So he secretly sneaked out of
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: the capital to go to the thief that was assigned
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: to him by Xiang Yu. So when Tian Rong heard
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: about this, he was even more angry. He's like, dude,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I made you king. You know, how dare you betray
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: me like this? So he chased down after his nephew.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: He has his nephew killed. He declared himself the king
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: of Qi. And then there was still the Tianan, the
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: grandson of the last king of Qi. So he attacked Tianan,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: defeated Tianan as well. So now Tianzong declared himself king
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: of Qi and he united all the Qi land. And
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: at this point, another person who was disgruntled with Xiang
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Yu came to Tianzong seeking help. And this is Chen Yu.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Because Chen Yu and Zhang Er, they were used to
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: be bosom buddies. They basically restored the state of Zhao together.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: But these two had a big fallout during the battle
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: of Ju Lu because Zhang Er expected Chen Yu to
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: come to die with them. Zhang Chen Yu is like,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: what's the point of me dying if it's... how about
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I save my forces and I'll take revenge for you
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: if you get killed by Zhang Han. But because of
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: this thing, the two became bitter enemies. But Zhang Han,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: after the Battle of Julu, he led the forces that
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: was previously commanded by Chen Yu to join Xiang Yu
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: to march into the Qing heartland. So to reward him,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu made Zhang Er the new king of Zhao.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: and appointed the king of Zhao as the king of Dai,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: which is the nomadic part of the Zhao state. And
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: he only gave Chen Yu three counties as a title
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: of Marquis. So Chen Yu was apparently not happy. He's like, look,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Zhang Er and me, we have equal achievement. Why is
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Zhang Er now the king? I'm only a Marquis with
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: only three counties. This is bogus. So he sent his
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: envoy to Zhao he sent his envoy Xia Yue to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the new king of Qitianzong and said, look, Xiang Yu,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: as the new ruler of all under heaven, is being unjust.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: He has just exiled our king of Zhao to the
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: nomadic frontier land, and he made Zhang Er the new king.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: And I intend to, you know, readdress this wrong, but
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: my army is not enough. So I would humbly request
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: you to help me to restore the state of Zhao,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: and then we can be partners. And Tian Dong is
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: very happy to create trouble for Shang Yu. So he
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: sent a force, he sent an army to Chen Yu.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: With his new army, Chen Yu was able to defeat
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Zhang Er, kick him out, and He also took the
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: king of Zhao back from the nomadic part and made
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: him the king. And the king of Zhao was very
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: grateful for Chen Yu. So he made Chen Yu the
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: king of Dai, the nomadic part of Zhao. But Chen Yu,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: instead of going to the nomadic part to be king,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Chen Yu decided to remain in the Zhao court and
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: make himself the Zhao prime minister because he felt like
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: the Zhao kingdom would be too weak. So Chen Yu
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: became the de facto ruler of the Zhao state. But
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: the Zhao-Qi alliance, now together, Zhao state and Qi state,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: they have 11 commandery between them versus Shang Yu's nine commandery, right?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: So they're actually forces comparable. More immediate threats. Yeah, more
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: immediate threat. And on top of that, there is a
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: person called Pen Yue. Pen Yue, the first time we
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: met Pen Yue was He was an old fisherman turned abandoned.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: And the local young man wanted to promote him as
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: a rebel leader. He said, well, if you want to
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: do that, you have to listen to Let's all meet
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: there tomorrow morning during sunrise. But nobody showed up on time.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: And the last one that came was during noon. So
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: he said, well, look, I'm the old man and you
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: want me to be your leaders. You have to follow
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: my rules. I cannot execute all of you, but now
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I have to make an example. So I'm going to
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: execute the last one to arrive. And at that time,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: everybody thought he was joking, but he was good to
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: his words. He had the last, the guy who arrived
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: executed from that point on, everybody feared him, followed his command.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And he cooperated with Niu Bang to attack the city
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: of Cang Yi, but Niu Bang, they didn't succeed. And
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Niu Bang later turned westward to attack the Qin heartland.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: But Pen Yue remained in the place. So by the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: end of the Qin dynasty, Pen Yue has gathered over
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: tens of thousands of followers. But again, Xiang Yu didn't
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: give him any kind of title or land. So Pen
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Yue is not happy. And Tian Zong, the king of Qi,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: took this opportunity to send Pen Yue the seal of
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: command and give him the title of grand general, pointing
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: at the grand general and order him to attack. the
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Chu land, Shang Yu's land. And Shang Yu sent a
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: general to deal with Pen Yue's problem, but Pen Yue
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: defeated the Chu army. So now that this is a
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: problem Shang Yu can no longer ignore. So out of
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: all these three people that created an issue for him,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Shang Yu decided, well, the main issue is obviously Tian Zong.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: He's a backer of all this rebelling against me. So
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Shang Yu led the main Chu forces to attack the
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: state of Qi. And this is why Liu Bang got
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: a free hand to conquer the former Qin land. So
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: even though Zhang Han was bottled up for a month,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you know, no help.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: Come, come.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: And Liu Bang didn't even wait until Zhang Han was defeated.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Because Zhang Han was already isolated in one place and
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: the Han forces took out over the rest of the
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Qin land because most of the people already you know,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: prone to favor Liu Bang as their ruler. And so
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: within a month, Liu Bang got most of all the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: land in the former state of Qing, with the exception
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: of Zhang Han's one lonely fortress under his command. He
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: left Hanxin to continually besiege Zhang Han for the next
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: seven months. While he led the over 100,000 men to
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: break through the pass, Hangu Pass to march east. The
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: two other Qing kings basically surrendered. Yeah, they surrendered. They
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: didn't even put up a fight. They just surrendered.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: And when Xiang Yu heard this news, you know, he
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: decided to take this, take it out on the King
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: of Han.
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: And this is because, you know, King of Han's advisor
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: Zhang Miao was very, you know, He was an advisor
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: for Liu Bang, even though Zhang Liang by now has
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: already left Liu Bang to return to his boss, the.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: King of Han. But Xiao Yu blamed King of Han.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Just for clarity for the listener, this is the king
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: of the restored Han state, right? Not Liu Bang himself,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: who is also King of Han.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Han and Han in Chinese, different tone, different character. So
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: So when Zhang Liang returned to the King of Han, well,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Zhang Liang was planning to return to the King of Han,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: but Xiang Yu, because he heard what happened when Liu
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Bang took over the former Qin land, he blamed Liu Bang.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: And because of the Zhang Mian connection, he blamed the
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: King of Han. So he had the King of Han seized.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Instead of having him, you know, leaving him in place
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: in the state of Han, Shang Yu took the King
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: of Han with him to his own capital, Pencheng. and
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: later demoted him to a Marquis, and after a while
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: had him killed, just had him outright killed, and appointed
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: his own candidate for the Han throne. But at this time,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang, within his followers, he has another general, also
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: name is Han Xin, same name, Han Xin, but this
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Han Xin is.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Is closer to the royal lineage than the famous commander
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Han Xin. And Han Xin followed Liu Bang's army into
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the Qinghar land and later to Sichuan. And when Liu
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Bang heard that Shang Yu has installed his own candidate
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: on the Han throne, so Liu Bang installed his general
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Han Xin as the king of Han. So in history,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: to distinguish the two Han Xin, they call the king
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: of Han Xin. They really refer to him as Han
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Wang Xin or king of Han Xin. Instead of when
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: they're referring to the general Han Xin, they just call
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: him Han Xin. So now there's two candidates for the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Han throne and the two battle it out. The pro-Han candidate,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: the king of Han Xin, won. And so the whole
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Han state went over to Liu Bang. And next, Zhang Er,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: he got defeated by Chen Yu. He was trying to
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: decide who to run to. He figured, okay, I have
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: good friends with Liu Bang. Liu Bang used to be
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: my retainer. We're good buddies. But Xiang Yu appointed me
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: as the king of Zhao and Xiang Yu is stronger.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe I should go to Xiang Yu. But Zhang Er
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: had an advisor who said, yeah, well, that's true now,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: but I have observed, you know, I have, you know,
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I'm an astrologist. I observe astrology and I saw the
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: five stars were gathering over the land of Qi. You know,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: this is the aura. of the future emperor. This means
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: that Liu Bang will rise. Even though he's weaker now,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: but eventually he will win now. So you should go
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: to Liu Bang. And somehow Zhang Er took that advice.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: So he changed his mind and took his men to
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: join Liu Bang. And Liu Bang was ecstatic. And together
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: with Zhang Er, Zhang Er also took over one of
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: the other kings that was appointed by Xiang Yu, Henan Wang,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: the king of Henan. Because the king of Henan, Shen Yang,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: used to be a Zhao general, used to be a
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Zang Er follower. So Zang Er was able to persuade
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: the king of Henan to surrender to the Han forces.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: So Liu Bang now is gathering a big, sizable force.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And now he's ready to challenge Xiang Yu directly. And
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I'll save that story for next week. Any comments or questions?
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: This episode where Liu Bang, through Han Xing's efforts, is
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: able to break through the Qingling Passes is quite remarkable
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: in the Chinese history because I think both in China
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: and overseas, For those who are interested in the ancient
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Chinese history, one has the impression that once you are
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: kind of stuck in the Sichuan Basin area, it gets
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: really hard to march north. In fact, not only just
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: the Sichuan Basin, but generally like northern expedition from southern
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: China is quite, it's logistically very challenging. And outside of China,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: because this period of Chinese history we're talking about now
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: is not as well known, but Three Kingdoms is better
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: known because of the Kuomintang video games that were made
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: primarily about that episode. And there is the famed strategist
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Zhu Geliang, who becomes prime minister of a Shuhan state,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: which is based in the same area of Sichuan. And
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: he launches five campaigns to try to break through the
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Qingling Pass against the Cao Wei state and is unsuccessful.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And he is also a kind of renowned military genius
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: in Chinese history. But as we will see later, once
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: we get to the Three Kingdoms period, disposition of forces
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: is quite different. There is an opportunity for Liu Bang
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that doesn't exist for Zhuge Liang later. Because later during
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: the Three Kingdoms period, that state can concentrate their forces
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to block these northern expeditions. Whereas here, Xiang Yu, he
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: has basically gimped his own marcher lords. He's made them
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: too weak to resist Liu Bang. And he does not
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: anticipate that so quickly, Liu Bang will be able to
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: replenish his forces from the Sichuan population and basically overwhelm the.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Three Qing Kings.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: It's not some extremely clever strategy that this is achieved by.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: In popular culture, it's associated with, I have launched diversionary
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: attacks to hide my true intentions. But in reality, what
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: has happened is that this would not have worked if
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Liu Bang did not have the overwhelming superior numbers that
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Zhang Han had. And Liu Bang has this because he
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: has Xiao He doing the administrative work for him. Now,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: later on, Zhu Ge Liang is also marching north with
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: a very large army. But Facing him is a similarly
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: large army, whereas here, Zhang Han, he's got quite meager forces.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: And once the passes are taken, his other two Qin
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: kings throw in a towel.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: They're like, not up to this.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so this is a rare instance where a
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: contender for power in Chinese history locked in Sichuan Basin
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: or anywhere in South China really is able to break
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: its way out north.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: In fact, Zhu Geliang's proposed strategy is an attempt to
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: replicate the success of Hanxin. Zhu Geliang's strategy is, we
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: go from Sichuan, we take over Guangzhou area, and then
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: we'll have a secure base, and then we go east,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: take over the rest of China. But, you know, the
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: problem in the implementation is, as you mentioned, that the
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: power balance is quite different from the time of Han
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Xing and time of Zhu Ge Yang. And Liu Bang
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: was facing a divided opposition, you know, three Qing kings
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: and quite severely handicapped by Shang Yu on purpose. Because
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: at that time, Shang Yu was still more worried about
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Zhang Han than he was worried about Liu Bang. Because,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Liu Bang... had more defeat than victories at
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: this point. Whereas Zhang Han, he was like the sword
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: of Qin that was cutting down the rebel forces left
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and right. So Xiang Yu really made sure to handicap
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Zhang Han, but to the point that Zhang Han was
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: weakened so severely, he presented no challenge. to Liu Bang.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: And the difference with Zhu Geyang's expedition is Zhu Geyang
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: was doing everything by himself. He was the general, the
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: logistic officer, and so Zhu Geyang was sort of a micromanager.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: He worked himself to death. Whereas Liu Bang, one of
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: his greatest assets, especially compared to Xiang Yu, is he
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: was able to delegate He's able to delegate. He has
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: all these guys working for him. He has Zhang Liang
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: to act as his strategist. He has Xiao He to
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: be his logistic guy. And he has Han Xin to
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: be his sword, his military commander. And so he had
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: plenty of talent that were able to share the burden
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: for him. But Zhu Gengyang was trying to attempt to
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: do everything by himself. That's why he literally worked himself
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: to death before he was able to accomplish his aim.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: And Cao Wei at that time, the Wei founded by
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Cao Cao's son, Cao Pi, was just way too powerful
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: and was united. Unlike what Liu Bang faced, Liu Bang
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: was facing a series of different situations. Different kingdom states
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: are created by Xiang Yu. And while Xiang Yu himself,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: more importantly, Xiang Yu was distracted by this anti-Shang Yu
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: alliance between the Zhao and the Qi plus Pen Yu.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: And Xiang Yu had his hands full before he can
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: redirect his energy toward Liu Bang. But by that time,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's forces was already out of the Qinghe land,
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: fighting in the central plains, which is what we will
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: talk about next time. the showdown between Xiang Yu and
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang. Okay, I look forward to it. Okay, thanks
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: everyone for listening. Until next time, bye-bye.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye.