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Outposts Over Retreat Centers with the Blacks · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:03
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family.
• 0:21
  Awesome. Well, guys, welcome back to the Family Teams podcast. I'm here with my lovely wife, April. Hello. And we have our friends, Reggie and Amy Black here with us. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Thank you. It's awesome to be here. So we're pumped to talk to you guys about this topic. Reggie and I have been friends for a while. He's a part of our integrated group, and we're just before the call getting to know Amy and excited to hear about their family. So one of the things that we've worked out and as we're kind of going through this series, there are
• 0:49
  There are very different ways that a family team thinks about various aspects of their life and their family. One of them is actually their physical house. And so there are different ways to think about this. And I would say the thing that I have noticed, and this is certainly something we've been trying to really understand from Scripture, is a family's house in the kingdom of God.
• 1:09
  I think is probably better thought about as an outpost versus a retreat center. So I'm going to read a little thing I wrote on this and to get Reggie and Amy to kind of chime in in April. We'll have a conversation about how this looks in our different families and how we've kind of walked through this and just the development of our own houses. So this is a family's home outpost or retreat center. What is the purpose of a house? Today, we tend to see it as our private retreat from the world.
• 1:37
  We lock our doors, let our hair down, and recover with our family before we launch back into our more public existence. This strong division between private and public spaces can also cause us to live a more selfish life in our protected private space. But have you ever tried to construct a biblical theology of the home? What does the Bible say about the purpose of a house? When it refers to a house, does it describe it as a place of retreat where we indulge our individual preferences?
• 2:05
  Here is another area where the current culture and the teaching in the Bible diverge sharply. And unfortunately, many Western Christians have chosen to go the way of the world when developing a vision for their home. Because as I've read the Bible, what it has to say about a family's house or what to say about a family's home, the word that comes to mind to describe this vision is...
• 2:24
  An outpost is a forward operating base of a particular government. Our homes are meant to be forward operating outposts of the kingdom of God. When homes are referred to in the New Testament, we find them described as hubs of community and hospitality. Here are a few examples. Luke 10, 5, homes are used as hubs for proclaiming the kingdom. Mark 10, 29, Jesus says,
• 2:45
  is a part of the new community he's establishing acts 3 32 through 34 no one thought of their houses as their own romans 12 13 houses were hubs for hospitality romans 6 16 5 houses facilitated the gathering of the church titus 1 8 elders
• 3:00
  were those whose houses provided lodging and meals. 3 John 5 and 6, housing traveling equippers who go from church to church. Those are just some examples. The biblical example of this kind of hospitality is Abraham and how he jumped up and along with his wife Sarah fed the three strangers a spontaneous and amazing meal that's in Genesis 18. In the New Testament believers are commanded to follow his example, Hebrews 13, 1 and 2. So what would happen
• 3:27
  if every family took the biblical vision of the house to heart. Imagine if every one of the countless millions of homes owned by Christians were managed as outposts of the kingdom of God. Creating one of these hubs is something every family team can begin to develop. The way each outpost will function will greatly depend on the season that family is in,
• 3:48
  but we must consider what we're aiming at and question whether we're called to build a retreat center or an outpost. All right, guys. So that was kind of my initial thoughts. What did that start for you, Reggie, Amy? I like the part about letting your hair down. Amy, I talked about this a lot. The seasonal part is a big deal for us of like,
• 4:08
  what does it look like in each season? Because I think if you haven't seen this done or you like, Jeremy, I've been to your house before, you know, somebody was to walk in and see like where you guys are at with your house and the way that you're using it now. And they're in a season like us with tiny kids that, that gap, you know, might, might scare off some people from like, where do I start with this? And how do we do this? So for us,
• 4:31
  right now in our season, like we have our, our family vision, which if you ask our kids, it's like the black family is here to serve, to be generous and share the word of God. So that's our family vision. And so that, how do we do that in this season for us right now, pretty much looks like we have to do all of that within inside of our home or most of it, because we've got six kids, you know, from 11 all the way down to brand new twin girls. And so we don't, we don't get out a
• 4:57
  The way we end up serving and people and being generous is a lot of that just is inviting lots of people over. So our house right now is this big revolving door. Lots of activity and everything going on. We actually have.
• 5:11
  four generations living in our house right now. So I've got my 91 year old grandmother who moved in about a year ago and which has been great. I'm actually in the loft right now above her space here. And then my dad just moved in with us about six months ago and then us and then we have the kids. So they've got their great grandmother living right next door to them, which is really cool.
• 5:31
  Wow, that's amazing. That is crazy. That is awesome. So yeah, the idea that this is going to look different, different seasons. And it's interesting. I think most people that would have heard, Reggie, how you started that. Okay, we got six kids and we have baby twin girls. They're about one year old now. Okay, you must be in a season where it is a retreat center. But instead you said, no, it's a season where things, we can't get out. And so things have to come to us.
• 5:59
  And so that's an interesting dynamic. Yeah. Amy, talk a little bit about what that looks like for you guys. Yeah. Well, one of the things that we were talking about last night when we were thinking about this was.
• 6:10
  We actually have two people that we've hired to come in and help us with various things. I have one lady that comes a couple of mornings a week and she does my laundry. She watches the little ones while at home school, the big ones. She can vacuum if it's needed, all the household stuff. And then we pull together with Reggie's sister, who lives also on our driveway, and then his grandmother and his dad. And we have a lady come from our church.
• 6:37
  who works part-time for us, right? And she cooks four days a week for us for dinners. And that really frees me up to do a lot of that, you know, inviting people in, having like we'll have play dates every Friday where people can bring their kids and swim and hang out and chat. And then it makes it a lot easier to invite people in for dinner too, because we have someone prepping the food for us
• 7:05
  And I think that makes a really big difference in the stress level of feeling like, you know, we've got all this stuff going on. How are we going to have anybody over? Everything's got to be clean, you know, that kind of thing. And then also we've been listening to you guys for a long time and really working towards creating a family team with our kids. And so that.
• 7:26
  That really also makes a huge difference when they all feel like they have a part in prepping for that. And, you know, they know their role when people are over, they know how to, you're going to fill this person's glass every time you see it empty or, you know, whatever it is, whatever their age, they can be involved in it. And it's a cool opportunity for them to live out our vision, you know, in a practical way. Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:51
  I love that. Cause I feel like the temptation when you're in your stage of life is to just be like, we got to hunker down. Like I thought what you were going to say, I was predicting like, so we just, we're teaching our kids right now how to share with each other. And cause that's part of our vision and like, that's it, that's all we can do. But to hear that you're, you've, you're thinking creatively, you're,
• 8:13
  you've hired help and you are, it kind of frees you up. You've figured out like what to delegate to other people. And I think that that's a skill to develop, like to know what to delegate and how to delegate and for it to free you up to be able to think bigger is really exciting to hear. Yes. Yeah. And Reggie helps a lot with that because I'm not great at delegating. I've never like,
• 8:40
  my background is not doing that. And he really helped me a few years ago to see, I really was like pushing back on getting help, you know, at our house when we were pregnant with our third baby. And I was kind of offended by it at first, you know, like, you don't think I can do three kids, you know, but he really helped me understand. He's like, I have,
• 8:59
  a team at work, you know, that I can delegate tasks to, and they can help me accomplish more. And he said, I want that for our home too. I want you, I want to help you build a team that can help you accomplish more for our family vision for our home. So I love that aspect. Yeah. That's really encouraging because I feel like we're told in some, some version in the world that
• 9:23
  is like you have to be able to do it all. Your individual family, like you and your spouse and your kids, well, you and your spouse have to be able to do it all. Don't make the kids do anything. And if you as a wife can't handle all this stuff, then stop at two kids or something like that. And so being able to have a bigger vision and allowing help and just thinking creatively and outside of the box, it's like your impact for the kingdom can just be so much bigger that way. Yeah.
• 9:53
  That's a huge thing for a lot of people to overcome because I do think it's a team mentality. Because I think even when people hear, oh, we have help in the house. I think that because they think it's a retreat center, they're like, you have a chef for your retreat center. That's interesting. Or something, you know, like, like, it's like, no, no, no, you guys, we're trying to like...
• 10:11
  People don't look at, for example, a church building that has, you know, maybe staff and that has that facilitates all kinds of kingdom activity. Nobody says, oh, that's really indulgent to have like a place where the church gets to meet. Well, if you start to think about your house as an extension of the kingdom of God and your job as a family is to maximize its impact for the kingdom.
• 10:35
  And a house is also this amazing place where people not only, it's not just four walls that facilitate, you know, some people in air conditioning that could have a Bible study. Like it's also a place like that people are seeing these generations. You guys have four generations in your house. They're.
• 10:50
  It's a place of embodied love. It's a place where people get to encounter fatherhood and motherhood and sonship and daughterhood. And these are such deep parts of the kingdom of God. There's so much at stake in trying to open our houses. And so when I see guys and families...
• 11:06
  get creative with their finances and really leverage those to create that atmosphere to maximize this one resource that is so precious for the kingdom. That makes a lot of sense to me that you guys have really, really leaned into that. I know that the one thing too, Reggie, you and I have talked about before and Amy was describing, you know...
• 11:25
  training the kids to engage in a certain way. I think that's a really tricky thing for a lot of people to think about in the house, like how you think about what kinds of, how do you encourage your children to view this, you know, through that visionary lens, as opposed to, hey, this is mine. These people are invading my space, you know, and you've mentioned your family's mission is to serve and be generous. So yeah, talk a little bit about how do you get your kids on board with that? A lot of brainwashing.
• 11:53
  Yeah, I mean, we've every single week, you know, if not multiple times, it is when we do our, you know, Shabbat dinner on Friday, I'll start asking them just questions, you know, like, what is Shabbat and, you know, things that they know and try to trick them. And now at the point where I try to trick them with something, you know, different or new or something that makes them think, but like, what is the purpose of Shabbat? And then.
• 12:14
  That goes into like, what is our family vision? And then I'm always asked them like, okay, so what did we do this week? Because they'll say serve, generous, and share the word of God, those three things. So I'll be like, okay, what did we do this week? That was on our calendar, where we serve somebody. What did we do to be generous? What did we do to share the word of God? And so it's almost becomes like a fun checklist game thing, but it's just become like the normal after years of doing it.
• 12:40
  of, you know, like that's the expectation of our house is that like on our wall says the black families exist here to do these things. And we'll prep then, you know, like before a gathering or something, if there's going to be a lot of new kids over and, you know, I'll just sit with, especially the smaller ones and talk about, you know, like, remember everything in here is God's and we're going to be generous and share all that we have with everybody who comes in. You know, we just, we reiterate that a lot. And especially if we're,
• 13:09
  going into a gathering or doing something new you know we'll try to to talk about it a lot you know leading up to that day i think that's a great point i mean like the conversation before the thing happens is huge and most people don't have that conversation they're not thinking ahead but even like in the car ride over to somewhere or before somebody comes over like just prepping them and talking to them through things makes a massive difference with the kids that's good
• 13:35
  That pregame pep talk. Yeah. Kind of coach, get your clipboard out. You know, we got this, guys. What you're describing, you know, such a, because I think that having those super contact checklist, you're defining what scoring looks like. And this is, you know, this is one of the biggest problems that teams have is in a sports context, you know, exactly when you've scored and exactly when you've won.
• 13:57
  And so I find so many family teams because that galvanizes a team. They get so like clear about, well, that's, you know, let's score that goal. And so the entire team like, you know, runs in sync and knows how to do that. But in a family, people are like, what's, what's a game time? What does scoring look like? What is, what is the championship? And to say, you know, did we serve? Were we generous? Did we share the word of God? I love that so much.
• 14:20
  Now, I think some people are hearing this, you know, there's so many families that are kind of teetering on the edge of burnout and they hear, oh my gosh, now my house has to be an outpost of the kingdom of God. So there's a sense of like, like, where do I go to let my hair down? I'm sure we've all wrestled with this.
• 14:38
  you know, when you lack energy and, or you're in seasons where you are in survival mode. I'm just curious how different ones, how, how do you, how do you handle the just running, running out of steam or seasons where this, this just feels too overwhelming? My answer is Shabbat, you know, to make sure that we have that, that day of rest. Right now, the rhythm that we're in is we're trying to invite like a family over. Well, Amy, Amy mentioned like she has her play dates with her
• 15:06
  you know, with her friends on Fridays invites. It's like almost like open gathering, you know, they can come over and swim or whatever, but there's Fridays, the house is very open for play dates, but we try to invite some other families over, like with the mom and dad and everything on, like usually once a month on a Sunday. We try to keep our Saturdays like just rest, just like pretty vigilant about not scheduling anything and just kind of vegging out and relaxing.
• 15:34
  that really helps us reset. Yeah. And I was going to say too, that it's, it's okay to, you have to adjust your expectations. Sometimes like we were, felt like we were in a really good rhythm before the twins were born. We were like loving our weeks and we were getting a weekly date night. We were having, you know, people over pretty consistently. We were even like for a time, we were doing a Bible study on Thursday nights at our house. And then the twins came and it was just like,
• 16:03
  Yeah, it was just kind of rattled, like turned everything upside down more than we had expected. And it feels like it's taken a really long time. And we're still trying to figure out our new rhythm, you know, like, what is it going to look like? And for a little while, it was kind of like, it was a little discouraging, because I felt like, man, I just felt like we were doing so much more, you know, before the twins came, but I've realized that it's,
• 16:29
  it's okay, you know, to dial it back some at certain times when you're feeling overwhelmed, or you just feel like, you know, it's too much. And I feel good now about just doing something, you know, even if it's just, you know, once a month, like I was listening to you guys is it was one of the podcasts where you were talking about all the things that you do at your house several times a week. And so Reggie and I were just like, well, that's awesome. And we hope to be there one day. But
• 16:55
  Let's like take a step back. This is where we're at now. And this is what we can do comfortably, you know? And I think that's okay, you know, to not put so much pressure on yourself to measure up to what you think you should be doing. The family plan calendar is the new way to keep your family team organized. Plan your rhythms, menu, household chores, and notes for the family all in one place. Visit familyteams.com to purchase.
• 17:24
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• 17:33
  Absolutely. And I feel like we, the eras where we've had to kind of like dial back or like the seasonal part sometimes for us was our kids needed our attention. And we started to feel like there, there came this, this element of us hosting where it felt like kids go away, be quiet. We're trying to
• 17:57
  like whenever we felt that shift kind of happening where it was like, I'm not able to like, I don't even know if my kids ate tonight. I, I don't know if they shared with anyone or took stuff away from, I, I was so like preoccupied. And there were times where I'm like, I, this is too much for me. Like, I can't focus on our kids hearts and like if we're hosting a gathering or things like that, I don't, I don't know where they're at. So sometimes we had to dial back even from the,
• 18:25
  even for like heart reason, heart purposes, not even just the practical, like you're saying, there's also like the sleep deprived nights and the seasonal things that come with a new baby or twins. And then there's also like, as those heart seasons were when the kids were older, you know, we had like 15 to, you know, six or something like that. And we're like, Ooh, we can't really host a lot. And we were surprised by that because we thought as the kids got older, we'd just be hosting more and more that we really had to make sure we weren't,
• 18:54
  It's almost like the, you know, like the pastor with the neglected children or something like that, that some version of that in the household. That was one season, one way a season looked different for us. Yeah, there's times where you're physically overwhelmed and sometimes where you're spiritually like you're just there's too much giving. And and so I think a big part of what we've been trying to learn is.
• 19:16
  is instead of like that family and mission family on mission and so you you want to be watching your kids and if it really does feel that way like if it is family on mission then you are growing closer as you serve but if you start to notice that one or more of your kids are really opting out and it starts to like because of their own decisions it starts to become family and mission that's kind of where we're like all right we gotta we have to kind of
• 19:42
  you know, re bring, you know, how do we make sure that we're doing this together? And this is actually building our team. Yeah, it's like it goes to family as mission. Yes. For a little bit. Like you kind of have to do that when you have a new baby. Well, there were seasons where we had to do that for our kids hearts to like re get them back, make sure that they're being born again.
• 20:03
  Yeah, we want to see that happen. You know, one of the things that you said, Reggie, which I loved was that's a lot of times people don't understand when I said, you know, how do you guys take care of your own rest needs? And you said, so you do that on a Sabbath. And this idea, which is very popular in the Jewish world, but I think Christians struggle with.
• 20:23
  is the idea of creating sort of what Abraham Joshua Heschel calls cathedrals in time instead of space. And so when we decide to dedicate our entire house to rest, then we can't use it as an outpost. But if we dedicate days to rest and days for outreach, then the same facility can facilitate rest and work.
• 20:45
  and productive work for the kingdom of God and maybe you know for education and all the other things that that happen in that house and I think that if you become fixated and every space has to have a single use it's got to either feel like rest or feel like productive work I go to the office and that's where I am productive for work I come home and I never work at home I'm always resting
• 21:08
  I'm always recharging. I think it's that, you know, assigning particular values to locations that causes some people to not be able to use their house as an outreach or as a part of a
• 21:22
  as a part of the kingdom of God. So that's, I love that insight. So you're describing the rec center when you are talking about that. Yeah. So if you start to think about your house purely as recreational, I would say another thing, I'm curious how you guys have handled this. I have some friends who, and I know we kind of went through this, maybe some have done it more dramatically than others, but some couples grow up where there are realms. And so the home is their wife's realm. And so she feels like, oh, this is where,
• 21:51
  I kind of rule in some sense. And so all of the decor decisions, all the uses of the space, I feel. And so I know one particular case, one of my friends got really excited about creating a outpost. And it was a little bit of a tension initially, like, whoa.
• 22:09
  like the, your space is at the office. And so, you know, and, and I definitely think that it's so important that the couple experiences both of their values in, in the home. But I think that what, what happens, how does it feel to be a wife who's, who, when your husband starts to have a vision for the house? Yeah. I'm curious how you both Amy and April have dealt with
• 22:35
  That tension. I love it personally because Reggie is, he is much more of a visionary than I am.
• 22:41
  And he, you know, has big ideas. And when we first got married, it kind of scared me a little bit, you know, when he would throw stuff out and I would just be like, I would be so worried about it, you know? And then he'd forget he even said that a week later. I'm like, I'm worried about this. And he's like, oh, I was just talking. That was just an idea. Like, I'm not moving on that. Okay. But I'm a details, you know, person. I'm more of like, how do we get there, you know? And so over the years, I feel like we've gotten into a good relationship.
• 23:09
  rhythm of being able to talk through those things. He has the big ideas and then we can think through it together. How do we, you know, how do we get there? Does that line up with our vision? I, yeah, I don't really feel threatened
• 23:24
  by that at all. And he's very receptive of like, if I don't think it's going to work, you know, I feel free to say that. And he's very, you know, receptive of those things too. So. Yeah. You were, you were telling me last night about kind of your journey to get here that I thought was really good. So like Amy's grandparents and parents were in the catering business. So she
• 23:43
  like a lot of hospitality, a lot of food, a lot of cooking. So she was, she was used to that in that environment, but it was, it was different when we got married. And I think what set us off on this whole path was when we first got married, we, my grandparents were like, why don't you guys move into us? And we, we did instead of like, people were like, Oh, you guys are crazy. You got to go buy a house. Yeah. It was, it was like the market was really good at the time, you know, and we've got a lot of y'all need to buy right now, you know,
• 24:13
  that sort of thing but and they're like it's you're losing money by and i was like yeah but we have a free option to move to move my grandparents and that literally like just like set us up radically for we were able to pay off student loans reaping off we bought a car cash during that time i lost my job during that time and it was like not a huge stress because we didn't have any you know we didn't have a house payment to
• 24:37
  Yeah, it set us up in ways that we didn't even know were happening until years later. You know, it was such a gift. And so we really thought we want to build a home that's available like that to other people, our kids, our grandkids or anybody, you know, in our family or otherwise that needs a space to stay.
• 24:58
  you know, temporarily or long-term or whatever. Yeah. And then when we got a house, well, before we moved out of my grandparents and we got a house, we ended up moving next door to my sister. We found two houses and it like became this kind of revolving door in and out that Amy was not used to. But she kind of got used to that and then was like, so it was a slow process is my point of it. It was like, it wasn't just like zero to a hundred.
• 25:21
  I didn't grow up like the revolving door. It was, it was more like if somebody is coming over, they better let you know. And we've got to get the house ready right away. It was like this stressful thing, you know? So when we moved next door to his sister and it was just a constant in and out, I kind of had to be like, do I like this? Or, you know, why is this bothering me? I don't know. You know? So.
• 25:40
  But then we ended up buying with them again and moving because we just loved it so much. And we started to embrace the idea of, you know, multi-generational living and just pulling our family together, using resources together and homeschooling together and all those things. It's been a huge blessing and we love it now. You know, we have people coming in and out all day long and it's just amazing.
• 26:05
  It's just normal to us now. But like you said, it was a slow progression. It wasn't like overnight. We're like, let's do this. Yeah, and you were saying that what resonated with you about one of the things Jeremy said in the essay was about having that outpost. Like it's all a lot of it is about taking people in rather than just having them over.
• 26:25
  part of like having that outpost is like being able to when people need it being able to take them in and we've always because of what my grandparents did for us wanted to have that spot and so we're like okay we're going to plan for that and we're going to build something that has that space available and we've bought something and just been renovating on it ever since we've you know we've bought it and building all those places and guess what now they're all full
• 26:49
  that unexpectedly that was pretty cool yeah yeah and all kinds of people just which has been great yeah yeah a lot of people i think yeah i don't realize that the new testament when it says practice hospitality or elders are those who are you know are actively practicing hospitality it's not talking primarily about meals although that's a huge part of it really is talking about running a hotel right it's about people staying the night because that's how
• 27:15
  It worked back then. There wasn't that option. And so I think that having, the way that even houses are designed today, that can be challenging to create that. We decided to buy a duplex partially for that reason. It's we wanted to have space. People have done this with,
• 27:31
  you know, like a basement that has a walkout, you know, where they're trying to figure out how do we, how do we take people in? How do we create a privacy for our family while still having people that are, are able to stay with us for periods of time. And that's such a blessing in that.
• 27:47
  Well, this is super helpful, guys. Anything else that you think would be helpful for people to hear as you guys were processing the essay? I was thinking about how much I love having people over. Because I really think that when you invite somebody into your home,
• 28:03
  It's an opportunity to like accelerate the depth of a relationship really fast with them. I almost think about it like a cheat code. And so if you are doing ministry in some capacity, I think it is like really because your house is, is sacred, you know, it is, it is a space, you know, that is sacred. It's almost like the holy of holies, right? Like the innermost, innermost, you know.
• 28:24
  place. And so I was thinking about like relationships and how beneficial some of the relationships that we've had. And I noticed how quickly those relationships can go deep when you invite people into your house, you know, which I think is a really, it's a really good thing to be able to be able to do that. It's like a very vulnerable place.
• 28:42
  And I think a lot of it has to do with when you invite somebody in, you're just serving them. You know, unlike if we were to go out to eat at a restaurant, somebody else is like serving both of us. But when somebody comes in your house, like you're kind of forced to serve them. They don't know where anything is or, you know, they're not going to get up and cook for you and stuff. So I think it's a really cool model that God has built into our house, like for service. And then automatically when you're serving somebody else, like hearts are open and bonds are created, you know, way quicker. Yeah.
• 29:10
  and way faster, which I think is just a bonus. I remember a conversation I was having with our contractor who was doing a lot of the renovations, and
• 29:19
  we had a mutual friend and I was talking to him. I was like, oh yeah, you know this guy, Bruce. He's like, no, I've been in this house and had dinner with him many times. It was like, not only do I know this guy, we've got an intimate relationship. I've been in his house and had dinner. And I think that's like a sign of like, man, they know each other, really know each other. And so I think it's a really cool way, an opportunity that people are missing if they're not doing this to have way deeper relationships. Yeah. Yeah, that's a huge insight that...
• 29:48
  So much of discipleship and community is based on time. And when you have people over, there's sort of opportunities to have that kind of endless time, like in the evening or if people are staying in your house, where it could just feel timeless and you could just interact and interact.
• 30:07
  You get to have conversations that really are at the pace of relationship. And today we almost exclusively do that in these third places, you know, restaurants, coffee shops, church buildings. And there's just, it never feels like you, it feels difficult to get past some kind of like barrier. Yeah.
• 30:23
  And in the kingdom, it's all about relationships. And so, and it's essentially about learning to love each other and houses are designed for that. And I think that that's kind of, you know, if we could just kind of close the house, the house is designed to be an incubator for love.
• 30:40
  That's that's what it is. And so you want that to start with your marriage, extend to your children, into your extended family. But if you're part of the kingdom of God, this has got to include others as well. Those those you're building community with those who you're called to reach out to. And so having that expanding circle come into your home so that they can experience the love that that the love of the father, the love that God has for them through your family.
• 31:09
  being the hands and feet of Jesus, serving people that this is how we can do that. And guys, it's so fun to get to do that with your kids instead of like, say, Hey, put the kids down, get childcare, and then we'll go do ministry and be the hands and feet of Jesus, you know, in some other place, man, your house can be that hub. So you guys, thank you so much for doing this with us. This has been really helpful. Great conversation.
• 31:34
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